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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 5/19/2008 12:05:08 AM | | In my life I have met too many abusive people in all types of situations. Relationships, jobs, family, friends, etc. What causes a person to be abusive, and is there hope for them? Is abuse a form of addiction? Why don't abusers recognise they are abusive? Can they blame it on thier past? Most often I found abusers were abused. It seems like a viscious cycle. Why isn't there more help for abusers? | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 5/19/2008 12:12:39 AM | I found this while searching the net.
There is Hope for Abusive Men
by Randy Flood, MA & Charlie Donaldson, MA, & Anthony Gretz
Each year The American Medical Association estimates that over 4 million women are victims of severe assault, making domestic violence the single largest cause of injury among women ages 15 to 44. While women's shelters, advocacy programs, and counseling centers address the needs of abused women, less attention has been directed to the root of the problem: the abusive men who are violent.
Organizations such as the YWCA offer excellent programs to empower women and help them take care of themselves, but women alone will not end domestic violence.
Men who commit acts of domestic abuse must be challenged to be accountable for their actions and to become fair and loving partners.
People often think that abusive behavior only involves physical violence. In fact, it also includes emotional abuse, such as intimidation and chronic criticism, which can be as harmful as physical attacks. Violence is, unfortunately, often the last in a series of behaviors.
The work involves helping men to understand that abusive behavior stems from distorted thinking that is rooted in male privilege-the false sense of "entitlement" that many men may feel in a relationship. In 85% of all reported abuse cases, the victim is female. These distorted beliefs often allow a man to blame the woman and free him from accountability for his abusive behavior. He may truly believe that he has a right to his own way simply because he is a man. He may say, "she made me do it" or "she was asking for it." Men must learn to recognize that they don't always get their own way and that a woman never is responsible for being abused-in other words, they are accountable for their own actions.
Just as important as a man's beliefs are his expression of emotions. Boys learn to deny and ignore painful feelings from an early age in our culture, and they carry that pattern into adulthood. This aggravates abusive patterns of behavior. They learn to transform feelings of hurt, fear, and shame into anger. In the short run, anger numbs the painful feelings and provides a sense of renewed strength and power. But in the long run, buried, unacknowledged feelings increase the severity and frequency of abuse. If an abusive man does not address the feelings hidden under the anger, the changes he makes through correcting and modifying his behavior will be superficial and probably short-term. Consequently, men need to identify and manage those core feelings of hurt, fear, and shame as well as the more obvious feelings of anger that are present during acts of abuse and control.
If you are an abusive man, or find yourself exhibiting some of these behaviors, there is hope. There are a growing number of tools available for rehabilitative treatment. Men can learn self-management, such as responsible time-outs. They can learn empathy for their partner that will also stop them from hurting the women in their lives. Reading books and discussing them with other people are other steps in the right direction. Men are more than capable of change, but it is important challenge them to do so. | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 5/19/2008 12:18:17 AM | | My concern is if an abuser does not get help or is in the process of getting help. Do we as the person being abused encourage them or remove ourselves all together and treat them like criminals? Its such a catch 22 when dealing with loved ones who are either addicts or abusive or both. You love them but not their behavior. I know about tough love. I just feel sad for those that go through life not getting the help they need. | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 5/19/2008 12:44:47 AM |
My concern is if an abuser does not get help or is in the process of getting help. Do we as the person being abused encourage them or remove ourselves all together and treat them like criminals? One thing of which I feel certain is that the target of their abuse will only be able to stop the abusive behaviour they are experiencing by removing themselves. Sometimes this is sufficient. I know of a man who was abusive to his first wife and his 2 kids but one they were out of his life he stopped abusing and appears to have a happy second marriage with a woman whose kids he did not abuse. Is he still an abuser -- I think so, because the tendency would always be there and if he was with the targets again I don't doubt he'd be abusive towards them, from what I've heard of him.
If you are being abused by someone, or if a friend is, encourage them to get out. The abuser may be able to be helped but not whilst the target of their abuse is to hand. The best thing the target can do to help the abuser is to remove themselves. An abuser cannot abuse if he has no targets. To solve abusive behaviour I think you'd need to get to the root cause of it -- what is the pay-off for the abuser? Sometimes it might just be confirming to themselves that they are a bad person who does bad things -- the mind does funny things to preserve false identities that could have been imprinted at a young age. Other times it may be a desperate attempt for the only kind of experience of control that they have in their life, much like anorexics abuse their own bodies by starving them. They're not really in control, they're being controlled, but the feeling they get from the behaviour is one of control. I think that a psychologist might be able to help.
Abusers are human beings who are suffering, this much is clear -- no-one behaves like that if they are happy and healthy and peacefully contented with their life. However, they are also dangerous and a vulnerable person, one who has been abused by them, should not approach them with the intention of helping them because they will no more be able to help them than a rabbit can help a wolf with intestinal damage -- the bunny will not get near the injuries, it will just become dinner and then consequently add to the problem. | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 5/19/2008 12:58:45 AM | | Wow rune very enlightening. Thank you for contributing to this forum. Your wisdom is refreshing. Can the abused love the abuser and not be in their lives? Or should they just let the love die and try to forget the person all together? I know loved ones of addicts love them but can't condone or inable the addict. Addicts are under the control of something that keeps them from thinking rationally. I think its the same with abusers. Thier irrational behavior keeps them a prisoner to their actions. Unfortuantly not much is done to help abusers or the abused. I think because the problem is so big and hard to understand and get control of they ignore it. The system just waits till someone dies from abuse to do something. By that time its too late. I am good friends with an abuse advocate and she is so fed up with the justice system turning their heads the other way to abuse. Where do the abused go for help? They often end up back with the abuser because there is little to no help for both the abused and the abuser. | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 5/19/2008 12:59:19 AM |
What causes a person to be abusive, and is there hope for them? Is abuse a form of addiction?
If you want to understand what causes people to be abusive, there are multiple websites on the subject. Most will tell you that people become abusive to feel that they have control of another person. They fail to accept that they are only supposed to have control of themselves. The causes of how a person become abusive hardly matter unless you are looking for something that justifies a person choosing to be that way. Unless they are truly mentally ill and entirely incapable of learning, they do "choose" it. Some will say that a poor childhood where they have been abused can cause a person to become abusive. That doesn't explain the millions of people who were abused as children and yet, become loving, compassionate people. Some say that toxic shame and a person feeling defective and unworthy can cause them to become abusive. Again, there are many with low self-esteem who do not choose to become abusive. Narcissism and sociopathology are 2 of many personality disorders that cause the abuser to see others as extensions of himself and to think that they should be willing to serve his needs and ONLY his needs (or hers, as the case may be). There are many, many causes for an abuser but in 99.9% of the cases, the abuser chooses to abuse because it WORKS FOR HIM OR HER to get them what they want, need or feel entitled to.
Abuse is NOT a form of addiction but power is addictive. There are many people who are addicted to alcohol who are not abusive. It's important that you not confuse the two. Someone who is addicted to alcohol to give himself the courage to become hostile, aggressive, child-like and outrageously self-centred has two separate issues on the go. One is his addiction and the other is his need for power.
Is there hope for them? Who would we be to write off another human being? The question you are really asking is whether or not there is hope for you and your abusive partner who appears to have a problem with booze. The answer lies in his willingness to get into detox, rehab and then work a program. If he's not willing to attack his alcohol demon, there is almost no hope that he will address his need to manipulate and control those whose lives he is affecting. There are a LOT of recovering alcoholics who are wonderful people but they have to want the help and most of them, had to reach the very bottom and be alone in order to surrender.
Abusers DO recognize that they are abusive and don't you kid yourself for a single, solitary minute that they don't! They may not be able to remember exactly what they've said and done while you, you lucky thing, get to remember EVERY single thing but they know when they are being abusive. I'd even go so far as to say, they plan it.
There IS help for abusers... There are many, many anger management programs. There are mens' groups everywhere but an abuser with an alcohol problem needs to detox first. No one can teach a drunk much of anything.
You are rationalizing what has happened between you and your partner so that you don't have to face that he's on his way down and he's taking you with him. BOTH of you have some key decisions to make... | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 5/19/2008 1:09:43 AM | I don't think if your abused as a kid you become an abuser, In my eyes you would know how this felt and would never do it. I say this is an excuse most abuser's make. Then they think they can get away with it.. Abuse isn't an excuse, its a cop out | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 5/19/2008 1:15:09 AM | | I think everyone has the potential to change. But first the abusers have to admit they are abusers (my ex would never admit it, always said it was "keeping me in line") and then they have to want to change and proceed to seek help. Only then will they have a chance to change | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 5/19/2008 1:18:45 AM | | Hi Silken not sure why you think I am with my partner. I am not. I do not intend on being with him. I have experienced all kinds of abuse past and present and so have so many of my friends, family members and acquaintances. Its hard to just write these people off all together and not hope that they are doomed to a life of abuse. I believe any self distructive behavior is a form of addiction. Like not eatting, drinking, drugs, over eatting, sex, abuse of all kinds. All of these are not only self destructive but hurt and others around them. Those around that love these people feel helpless in knowing what to do. Do parents turn their backs on their children who are addicts? Hurting yourself or others is dangerous yet these people are loved. Inspite of thier behaviors. I do not want to make excuses for their behaviors. I would like to see more help and less ignorance for this subject. | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 5/19/2008 1:35:31 AM | Hi New York... I am not thinking you are with your partner. I am thinking you are only 2 to 3 days from him having been there, drinking and becoming abusive. I was reading your postings that night and deeply concerned for your wellbeing.
And I know what it is to be trying to think our way through these things in the rather deafening silence that follows their departure.
You would not have been with him the last time if not for your compassionate heart New York... I hope that you will love him enough now to let him hit bottom so that he finally does reach out for the help he needs so badly.
I wish you strength during this difficult time. | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 5/19/2008 1:45:01 AM | I am a survivor of domenstic violence. My abuser abused his first two wives. He had to take court ordered batterers intervention classes, and anger management classes twice before we became involved. He did not disclose his history to me. Looking back in retrospect he fit the profile of a man that needed to have power and control over women. He was quite good at trapping his victims. He was charming at first. He treated me like a queen, Said all the right things but pushed hard for us to live together before I was ready. Once he had me emotionally the abuse began. It was emotional at first. He did his best to make me feel deserving of his hurtful comments. I slowly but steadily believed that I was at fault so I would try harder and harder to make the relationship work. He started alienating me from family and friends, he made me dependant on him. He began to control who I would see and where I went. His words were like daggers and I became very depressed. When he drank he became violent. Initially he would destroy things. A fist through a wall , kicked down a door. He used this to intimidate and control. Soon he started throwing things at me. Eventually he became physically abusive. I tried to get him out of my home, the police were called. They said I would need an eviction notice even though it was my home. He finally left bruises the police could see and they arrested him. He served three months in Jail. When he was released I had a restraining order to keep him away. The court ordered him back to Batterers intervention classes and a drug and alchohol program.
I lived in fear when he first got out and thankfully a wonderful support program helped me find myself again. Two years of counseling helped heal the wounds and enpowered me to help other women. Yes there are many programs out there to help men and women who abuse, but statistics proove that most offenders will abuse again. Its like a revolving door. I think we need stiffer penalties for those who abuse.There are two many tragic stories where women have done everything within the legal systems and are killed by their abusers when the police did not take their threats seriously. These were tragedys that did not have to happen.
Domestic violence is a very serious issue. I believe it should be a mandatory requirement in high school. Education is a great way to be proactive and inform young men and women that there violence is not acceptable as a means to problem solve. We need to give them good problem solving skills and resources where they can go for help. | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 5/19/2008 2:00:20 AM |
I think we need stiffer penalties for those who abuse.There are two many tragic stories where women have done everything within the legal systems and are killed by their abusers when the police did not take their threats seriously. These were tragedys that did not have to happen.
Amen to that DovesTreasure!  It sounds like we knew the same guy!
Here in Canada, uttering threats and assault are what is called "hybrid" offences. That means that upon receiving the charges from the police, the Crown Counsel (would be prosecutors in the States) reviews them and decides which way they are going to proceed. If they proceed summarily (by misdemeanor in the States), the offender can get no more than 6 months in prison. If they proceed by way of indictment (a felony in the States), he (or she) can be put far enough away to have to be fed by slingshot.
When an abuser is held without bail, he gets 2 days credit for every day served meaning that if he is held for 6 weeks pre-trial, he has already served 3 months before he even hits the courtroom. What that means is that it is a stupid woman who knows the Crown is proceeding summarily and testifies against the guy who is going to be back on the street before he cools off. It isn't the judge, or the cops or Crown Counsel, he is going to take after when he's angry... it's her - for testifying against him.
In my case, my terrorist had a 20 year history of assaulting women and tho' I charged him 5 times, in each case, he got 3 months and was right back out on the street after the trial.
The system refuses to take these things seriously and women are dying because of it. It just makes me so... MAD!!! | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 5/19/2008 2:03:00 AM | | At some point in my life I decided that I would not tolerate anyone (co-worker, boss, family member, friend, lover, mate) in my life who repeatedly did things that made me feel badly about myself. If someone loves you, they won't continue to do things that make you sad or upset. Most of us can sit around the campfire and tell some version of what we consider a war story. Personally, however, I wasn't put on this earth to be abused, and nothing I've been through gives me the right to abuse someone else. And yes, OP, I agree with you that it does seem to be pervasive. At some point in my life I also decided that I can only fix me. I can't fix you. Peace be with you. | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 5/19/2008 2:07:39 AM | | Hi Dove your story is so simular to my marriage of 30 yrs. He threatened to kill me if I left him. he till this day does not admit he is an abuser and has never gotten help. Last year he tried to kill me by running me off the road with his car. I was in my car with a witness and after waiting almost a yr for the trial he got off on a technicality. The da said most often abusers go free. There are not stiff enough laws for domestic violence. Even with a witness I lost. I now do not feel safe knowing the justice system failed me not once but many times. orders of protections are worthless. Even a local cop told me that. I agree domestic violence is serious and there should be mandatory classes early on to teach people how to recognise abuse and also to recognise if you are abusive and what to do about it. Think of all the lives that would be saved and marriages saved and money saved in courts if there were more programs to teach people how to prevent abuse. | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 5/19/2008 2:15:01 AM | If everywhere you go, a problem follows you, then the problem is you.
Accept it and figure out how to fix it. Take an assertiveness training course. Get some self esteem if that's the problem, but stop blaming others for a problem that no doubt comes from within.
To be walked all over, one has to first lay down.
Stand tall and the problem will go away.
Best Wishes ~ | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 5/19/2008 2:16:00 AM | Silken said-
In my case, my terrorist had a 20 year history of assaulting women and tho' I charged him 5 times, in each case, he got 3 months and was right back out on the street after the trial.
The system refuses to take these things seriously and women are dying because of it. It just makes me so... MAD!!!
It makes me MAD too Silken. 8 women in my small town were murdered this past year by husbands. We are not possessions we are human beings who should not be treated like possessions. As much as I have been abused my men i do not want to give up on the whole species because i know there are good men out there. I refuse to let these abusive men keep me from having a happy healthy relationship with a good man. | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 5/19/2008 2:21:02 AM | | Aspiring angel I have no clue where you get your negative ideas from but abused people are not the one to blame. You are a candidate for defending abusers. Not good. Did you read all the testimonies on here about how these women have been abused. Your saying they are to blame and have low self esteem? This is why I feel everyone needs to be educated about abuse. Your only making the problem worse by blaming the abused. Please read everything you can about abuse. You really need to know the facts. | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 5/19/2008 2:40:46 AM | How do you define abuse? If you have an extremely liberal definition of abuse you will find far more than if you have a more defined stringent definition.
I see in your next post that there is help for men who abuse. Is there help for women abusers and is this another gender specific abuse thread that only recognizes that men can abuse?
I feel i was abused throughout my marriage but most people seem to think that isn't possible because women don't abuse. Is constantly lying to your spouse not abuse? Or making every outing into an opportunity to insult or otherwise harrass him not count as abuse?
I see there is mention further along that so many men kill their wives. I am wondering if there is a connection between this and the amount of women who are killing their kids in recent years. I know the women have better reasons such as pms or having a husband but are these truly viable reasons? It seems a man with a history of being abused as a child and possibly as a husband has no excuse yet a woman who's husband abuses her does have reason to murder him. Goodbye Earl
I am in no way defending anyone abusing anyone else but i am tired of these things always being about how abusive men are and how women are such perfect delicate creatures. | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 5/19/2008 2:48:13 AM | NYTomboy, Re-read what I said. Stand tall, stand up and walk away. If you stay it's a choice YOU make. There is nothing wrong with my thinking. I didn't excuse anyone's behavior, I simply make a supposition that if you keep having the same problem in every relationship, then the problem lies within.
I do know about abuse. My ex came home to a dirty house for the umteenth time after I had our baby. I was depressed, could hardly get out of bed, much less clean the house. After he'd had a few beers, he backed me into the wall and started using my face as a punching bag. At first I actually felt like I deserved it, but as the beating continued, something in me said enough!
I stood up, punched his worthless ass in the face as hard as I could and kept on hitting. He ran out the door, which I promptly locked and that was it. OVER finito' gone!
Now I was 20 years old, had nowhere else to go and had a two week old baby. But I stood up for myself and got that jerk out of my life for good.
We are all responsible for our own actions. If your actions include taking it, then change yourself. Forget about the loser and move on.
I am not a VICTIM, I am a SURVIVOR. | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 5/19/2008 2:55:54 AM | Dudley.. Not long ago, there were threads addressing the fact that woman are also guilty of abuse. There were very few people (VERY FEW) who didn't acknowledge that yes, women are just as capable of abuse as men are and should be dealt with in the same way when that abuse can be proven in evidence.
People are not criminally charged for verbal abuse unless it involves uttering threats. That's why so many people use this form of abuse and because they are also marital partners, they know EXACTLY where the soft spots are on their spouses in order to hone in on whatever they know is going to cause the most emotional pain. It's a form of flying under the radar because no court is going to convict for verbal abuse. Lies, insults and harassment ARE verbal abuse but not criminal offences.
Are you suggesting that men are killing their wives for killing their kids? If so, I would guess that most of the men are letting the courts take care of that situation. That seems like a pretty far-out suggestion.
Both men and women use poor childhoods as a reason for snapping and killing their spouses but those reasons are generally presented after the person has been found guilty when counsel are speaking to the sentence being handed down.
I have yet to read on POF where anyone reasonable has EVER thought that either men or women should be allowed to get away with abuse. I don't know where you get the idea that anything in THIS thread is about how abusive men are while women are such perfect delicate creatures. (As a matter of fact, I even mentioned both genders in my post!). Sometimes, me thinketh some do protestesth too much! | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 5/19/2008 2:57:45 AM | If everywhere you go, a problem follows you, then the problem is you
Not necessarily so young miss. Many time persons who are abused will unawares show signs of abuse and a lifelong abuser will pick up on these and become just what that person is looking for. They will become their protector, sounding board, lover, whatever is needed to place that person at ease. Most can display the patience of Job if need be and there is a particular trait about the abused that is enticing.
Take an assertiveness training course.
Stand tall and the problem will go away.
Suddenly becoming aggressivly defensive, strong willed or however you would describe it can quite easily get a person killed or worse. These people that are into physical abuse have no normal concept of evil nor actually a normal thought process. Do not mess with them just get away and stay away. Do what can be done to have them put away and save yourself and any kids of course.
I wonder, has anyone tried to get a registry set in place like the child abuse registry? That may or may not be viable. | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 5/19/2008 2:59:56 AM |
Not necessarily so young miss. Many time persons who are abused will unawares show signs of abuse and a lifelong abuser will pick up on these and become just what that person is looking for. They
Thank you for proving my point.
People who keep finding themselves in abusive situations need to change themselves. Stop being a victim and start being a survivor. Stop asking why, and fix it.
As for the rest of your post: Yes, it's true that after a cycle of abuse has started it is very hard to get out. The point I'm making is that they have to get out, I'm not suggesting how, I'm saying do it. However that gets accomplished, it needs to be done.
Now, yes, I beat the living daylights out of that man. He never ever expected me to fight back, that worked in that situation.
When I was attacked two years later in my apartment building by three men, I didn't hit back, but I sure the hell didn't take it either. I remained in control of my situation and gained my freedom back. They had me trapped in a stairway for two hours, with the intent of raping me. Did they rape me? Nope. Did they beat me until I couldn't even breathe anymore? Yep. They didn't kill me because I didn't just lay there and take it. So...when you are discussing abuse, remember you are talking to someone who has been there more than once and survived to tell you about it.
And Dudley - Assertive and Aggressive are NOT the same thing. You very neatly twisted them and really I don't appreciate it. Assertive training can fix those outward signs that the abuser is looking for (looking at your feet when walking instead of looking where you're going, all those subtle clues of low self esteem) and very nicely trains a person what to do when someone does try to be abusive.
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 5/19/2008 3:14:42 AM | Are you suggesting that men are killing their wives for killing their kids?
No actually i probably worded that poorly and didn't give a proper context. I am thinking more along the lines of women who are left behind so's to speak. Men mostly still have their traditional roles and a good number of women have taken on a career. There was a time, and for some it still holds, when the feminist movement seemed to be disgusted by those women who stayed in their traditional role. I have seen this in actual fact and heard women be told that they are less a person for being a house wife and mother and they are wasting their lives. It seems these women who do kill their families are those who are in the traditional role. Do women have a need to step outside that role for a while before becoming a parent? Do they get trapped in a thought of what they're missing and let that get to them? | |
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| Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 5/19/2008 3:19:36 AM | Oh...there is plenty of help for 'abusers'. Most of them don't realize they have a problem. Why? Because in general we do not notice the bad things about ourselves....like for me, I talk way too loud...sure I'm aware of it now, but I haven't always been. So, I was always intimidating (which could be construed by some to be abusive) other people and not even realizing it.
I don't believe that you can blame things on your past. YOUR PAST DOES NOT MAKE YOU BEHAVE THE WAY YOU DO TODAY!!! Alright....so, just because I was molested when I was little, I can now hit people, scream at people, or degrade someone? Yeah....I don't think so.
And there is hope for anyone as long as they make an effort to change.
~Welder's Girl~
In my case, my terrorist had a 20 year history of assaulting women and tho' I charged him 5 times, in each case, he got 3 months and was right back out on the street after the trial.
Then why'd you go back to him after all those times?
OP...I call your bluff on the murders in your town last year. That made me curious as to where you lived...so I did a bit of research and there was ONE this past year, ONE of hiring someone to kill an ex, and one more possible case...just couldn't find a lot of info about it. Over the course of the past THREE years...there have only been 7 cases total. | |
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