| Fish Oil
Posted: 5/19/2008 3:15:08 PM | Anyone here take it or use other omega products?
I was thinking of going a month at 20-30 a day and see if there are any benefits.
Please post your experience with fish oil if you have taken in large doses | |
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| Fish Oil
Posted: 5/19/2008 3:35:49 PM | Fish oil is awesome!
There is some concern over mercury contamination in fish, but the high quality fish oil is molecularly distilled, thereby removing mercury, pcb's, and any other toxins.
It will say "molecularly distilled" on the container. It will also show two important acids, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). The higher these two levels are, the better.
There are so many benefits from using fish oil, it would take over an hour just to list them.
If you are vegan, and can't have animal products, you can take flax seed oil instead.
(I take both, 2000mg each per day) | |
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| Fish Oil
Posted: 5/19/2008 4:24:32 PM | The effect fish/cod liver/flaxseed oils is to raise the omega-3 compared to omega-6 and omega-9. The Standard American Diet is outta whack, too little anti-inflammatory 3, too much pro-inflammatory 6,9.
The primary sources of 6,9 are corn and corn products, plus beef and dairy that has been corn-fed and corn-oil fed. Grass-fed beef, dairy is not screwed up.
So a complementary tactic is to reduce sources of omega-6,9 while raising omega-3.
9
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-6_fatty_acid
Taking 2T of carlson's lemon cod liver oil for a couple months had these effects, but I taking coconut oil also:
crustiness (never a big problem) elbows, knees
total absence of itchy scalp
skin with a sheen but not oily.
Research coconut oil, another winner that the US food/industrial oil corps have managed for 50 years pretty much to keep off the market.
http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/what_is_virgin_coconut_oil.htm | |
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| Fish Oil
Posted: 5/19/2008 4:25:30 PM | Carlson fish oil is the best ,it is lemon flavored so you won't have that fishy taste. The liquid are better than the softgels. You should take cod liver oil in the winter months when you don't get much sunlight exposure since you need vitamin d.
http://www.carlsonlabs.com/product_detail.phtml?prodid=00205&categid=03a9 | |
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| Fish Oil
Posted: 5/19/2008 8:04:09 PM | a while back, I tried taking fish oil capsules, and actually had a VERY unpleasant reaction to it.
Also, for some strange reason, as a result of taking the capsules, I acquired a taste for the music of Vince GILL(HAH!)! | |
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| Fish Oil
Posted: 5/20/2008 9:02:21 AM | | Put your fish oil in the fridge it will keep you from getting the fish burps. | |
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| Fish Oil
Posted: 5/21/2008 7:58:22 PM | | I take 4000 mg of fish oil a day and I put ground flaxseed in my smoothies. I have never had a bad reaction to it at all. | |
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| Fish Oil
Posted: 5/21/2008 11:06:28 PM | | I'm curious about this. I take fish oil, but nothing near that level. The label says 3 a day (pretty standard-sized capsule). What is taking large amounts supposed to do you for you that the recommended amount won't? | |
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| Fish Oil
Posted: 5/22/2008 3:56:37 AM | I started taking it at normal dosages at the same time as glucosamine. Seems to be helping my knees, I am heavy and do a lot of running and walking carrying a lot, used to get a fair few knee twinges, they seem to have eased.
Massive use of supplementation will usually hit diminishing returns quite quickly. | |
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| Fish Oil
Posted: 5/22/2008 7:43:31 AM |
I'm curious about this. I take fish oil, but nothing near that level. The label says 3 a day (pretty standard-sized capsule). What is taking large amounts supposed to do you for you that the recommended amount won't?
Large doses of fish oil are often used to improve brain function. There have been quite a few studies done on the effects of fish oil on kids with adhd and add with some remarkable results.
Fish oil is also used to help treat mood disorders like depression and bi- polar, a psychiatrist I know has patient with bi-polar who takes around 20 capsules (1000mg) a day and because of this has been off his traditional medication for about two years.
A double blind study conducted in the states showed significant improvement in patients with bi-polar
I've suffered from depression in the past and found large doses of fish oil to be very effective.
I read somewhere that fishing communities such as the Inuit’s in Canada have very low rates of coronary disease and depression
If you want more info try googling Dr Andrew Stoll
Massive use of supplementation will usually hit diminishing returns quite quickly.
Not sure I know what you mean here surely the amount of supplementation is dictated by the level of deficiency and if someone is massively deficient in a certain chemical or fatty acid etc then they would require a massive dose to bring them up to the normal level. | |
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| Fish Oil
Posted: 5/22/2008 9:09:20 AM | "helping my knees"
Joint pain is mostly inflammatory pain.
Omega-3 is well-known as an anti-inflammatory.
Other natural inflammtories are ginger (cheap in bulk/powder) and capsaicin.
Glucose and fat are inflammatory, so low-carb/low-GI diet and lean weight should help joint pain (a lots of other stuff). | |
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| Fish Oil
Posted: 5/22/2008 10:33:39 AM | | You can easily just buy 1000 mg capsules. I take 4 a day, it's not difficult. | |
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| Fish Oil
Posted: 5/22/2008 2:08:10 PM | Holland and Barrat (UK) I bought 100 x 1200mg caps today for £4. Ive taken 7 already, another 13 to go!
Large doses I've heard can build muscle, lower fat, lower cholesterol, prevent diseases, and improve overall health and vitality.
For those of us interested in positively and optimally altering body composition and maximizing our training efforts, fish oils offer thirteen possible advantages:
1. Cell membrane health: EPA and DHA insure that cell membranes remain healthy. This means that the membranes are flexible and contain larger numbers of insulin receptors that are more receptive and responsive to circulating insulin. This results in decreased fat storage in the adipocytes (fat cells).
2. Fish oils turn on the lipolytic genes (fat burning genes).
3. Fish oils turn off the lipogenic genes (fat storage genes).
4. Fish oils diminish C-reactive proteins, a newly identified risk factor associated with various inflammatory diseases, including atherosclerosis, angina, coronary heart disease, heart attack, stroke, congestive heart failure, and diabetes. The DHA fraction of the fish oil seems to be one most responsible for that protective effect. DHA also has the best ability to reduce blood pressure.
5. Increase utilization of fat stores from the adipocytes.
6. Preferential utilization for energy production once stored in the adipocytes.
7. Reduced inflammation from physical training.
8. Pain management from the reduced inflammation.
9. EPA regulates blood supply to the brain which is essential in maintaining focus in weight training sessions. DHA is important in brain membranes, memory, and cognitive function.
10. Fish oils increase serotonin levels (the happy neurotransmitter). Therefore, fish oils will decrease incidence of depression, anxiety, panic attack, and reduce carbohydrate cravings.
11. Fish oils will improve your cardiovascular risk profile by lowering VLDL, triglycerides, homocysteine, fibrinogen, and increasing HDL levels. Combining fish oils with plant sterols will improve lipid levels even more than either alone.
12. Fish oils can also decrease blood pressure by several mechanisms. These include increases in the vasodilatory compound, nitric oxide, reducing vascular inflammation, blocking the constrictive elements in the vascular wall such as the calcium channels reducing blood viscosity, and inhibiting a blood vessel constrictor (thromboxane). Lipoprotein (a) is another CVD predictor that can be lowered by fish oils (a 19% reduction was seen with natural, stable fish oils and just 4% with a highly purified fish oil).
13. Fish oils are a great stress fighter. Supplementation with n-3 fatty acids inhibits the adrenal activation of steroids, aldosterone, epinephrine, and norepinephrine (catecholamines) elicited by a mental stress, apparently through effects exerted at the level of the central nervous system. Therefore, for the same amount of stress, one will produce fewer stress hormones if consuming fish oils on a regular basis. | |
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| Fish Oil
Posted: 5/22/2008 9:29:03 PM | | I don't want to take over the thread, but, I have a related question if someone would enlighten me. Is their ANY alternative for fish oil that will give the same benefits? I am DEATHLY allergic to fish [shell fish and sea food - all inclusive] to the point where my bf has had to give up all of that, even kissing him afterwards causign an allergic reaction. I keep hearing about the 'benefits' of fish oil, but, for obvious reasons, it's not gonna happen. Anyone have any suggestions? | |
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| Fish Oil
Posted: 5/22/2008 9:40:16 PM | | Yeah... dump your boyfriend! | |
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| Fish Oil
Posted: 5/22/2008 10:36:06 PM |
Not sure I know what you mean here surely the amount of supplementation is dictated by the level of deficiency and if someone is massively deficient in a certain chemical or fatty acid etc then they would require a massive dose to bring them up to the normal level.
If X amount of supplement provides Y benefit then 2X would provide 2Y... if the body was wonderfully linnear and there were no limitations. However, there are. 2X may provide 1.2Y... and 10X may provide 1.5Y... and 20X may provide 1.6Y... and cause reaction Z. Vitamin B is a great example- massive doses of vitamin B will give you extremely long term to permanent nerve damage. Weee! Vitamin A another- too much and you get sick. Very sick.
A lot of 'supplements' are taken in doses way beyond their utility. Taking 20 or 30 times the recommended dose of fish oil will not provide 20-30 times the benefit. | |
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| Fish Oil
Posted: 5/23/2008 12:07:29 AM | (Two people I would like to address)
1.) 1Preciousrose
Omega 3 can be found in Walnuts and Flax Seed as well as fish :) I hope this was helpful.
2.) For someone -I will not point out, but apparently everyone might plainly see as trying hard to be smart. Intelligent people don't have to try so hard to look smart. Neither do they have to try so hard to make others look dumb, true intelligent people don’t have to prove a point. They encourage others to learn. | |
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| Fish Oil
Posted: 5/23/2008 6:12:58 AM | The studies on n-3 acids use 3 to 4 grams a day. There's no reason to go above that level. I don't know the dose of the capsules you're taking. So look at the label and then at the mg amounts of DPA and EHA in each capsule, combine for the total.
Unless you're capsules are extraordinarily weak, taking 20-30 a day will probably give you a lovely case of diarrhea.
My favorite omega-3 capsules are Now double strength. They are 600 mg per capsule.
STAY AWAY FROM FLAXSEED OIL. It contains both omega-6 and omega-3s. You don't need any additional omega-6s in your diet. | |
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| Fish Oil
Posted: 5/23/2008 8:58:55 AM | Eating fish 2-3 times a week, preferably the all outrageously expensive Salmon, is more effective than supplements.
With that said, I use Krill Oil purchased on-line from Mercola.com
Also, check out this website for the nutritional breakdown and scientific studies on selected foods: http://www.whfoods.com/foodstoc.php | |
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| Fish Oil
Posted: 5/23/2008 9:06:01 AM | ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ Absolutely false. Fatty fishes have relatively little n-3 acids UNLESS you eat the skin and the little fatty brown part in the salmon. Very few people eat those parts.
The chart on Whole Foods site says that a 4 oz serving of salmon has 87 percent of the n-3 acids you need for ONE DAY. And their chart is incorrect in any event.
My nutritionist is one of the consulting advisors for Mercola's site. There are many incorrect statements on it, so beware. | |
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| Fish Oil
Posted: 5/23/2008 11:35:08 AM | Flyonthewall.... it's not clear to me which site you are referring to:
Many incorrect statements on Mercola's site?
Or on Worlds Healthiest Foods?
Both claim, and present, scientific studies to back up their information. Like any other information, it can be twisted to represent the viewpoint of those advocating it. That includes your nutritionist as well, whose knowledge isn't acquired in a vacuum, buy relies on "studies" and what they were taught, also subject to the bias of the "teacher".
Acquire as much information, from as many sources as possible, and make a reasonable judgement.... that's the best any of us can do. I learned years ago that for every piece of "scientific" evidence, one can produce another piece that is a counterarguement to it. In
That goes for nutrition, health, sports, whatever.
Regarding Salmon, for all I know it makes a difference if you are testing Farm raised vs Wild salmon. I don't know if O-3's degrade with preservation.... there's a lot of unknowns.... but I feel both sites, Mercola (which has a vested interest in selling you their product) and WH Foods, are doing a good job. | |
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| Fish Oil
Posted: 5/23/2008 12:34:51 PM | I wasn't even dealing with the issue of farmed salmon. You don't even want to eat that at all.
Salmon does have n-3 acids, but an RDA has not been established, so I'm not even sure what dose Whole Foods suggests is 87% of the recommended. The amount of n-3 acids contained depends on the kind of salmon it is, in addition to whether you're eating the skin and brown fatty portion. There is a much wider range in salmon than wild and farmed, and the fatty acid of content varies depending on the species.
There have been various studies using 3 and 4 grams, which is what you would want to take for an effect against disease. Personally, I take 3 grams per day even though I'm healthy. There are no studies on doses above 4 grams.
I do some science writing in this area, so while I don't know as much as my nutritionist (who's one of the best), I do know more than the average person. | |
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| Fish Oil
Posted: 5/23/2008 4:09:35 PM | I went back to Worlds Healthiest Food site to see what your criticism is, and from my nonscientific perspective, they go a long way in explaining how they derive their value system: They site somewhere around 60 references, many from published journal articles in research.
They have this to say about salmon:
Their flesh ranges in color from pink to red to orange with some varieties richer in important omega 3 fatty acids than others. For example, chinook and sockeye are fattier fish than pink and chum and contain great amounts of healthy omega 3 fatty acids.
Regardless of the organic versus non-organic issue, we do know that the fatty acid content of salmon can vary dramatically depending on foods eaten by the salmon. (This relationship between the fatty acid content of an animal food and the fatty acid content of its feed exists for all animal foods. The omega-3 fatty acid content of hen's eggs, for example, can be significantly increased by incorporating flax meal into their daily diet.) In the USDA SRS18 foods database, you'll find more similarities than differences between the omega-3 fatty acid content of wild caught versus farmed salmon. Fatty acid composition, however, is not the primary reason we favor purchase of wild caught over farmed salmon. The primary reason involves increased risk of toxicity associated with farming practices. We also don't like many of the environmental consequences that have been linked to salmon farming.
ADDITIONALLY STATED REGARDING THE DAILY VALUE PERCENTAGES for Salmon:
2.5 grams Daily Vlue for Omega 3 fatty acids; this was derived from recommendations of a panel of experts at a workshop sponsored by the National Institute of Health in 1999, including Artemis Simopoulos, MD, Alexander Leaf, MD and Norman Salem Jr. Ph.D, who concluded that at least 1.2% of total calories should consist of O-3 acids . Since we use 1800 calories as the reference diet for the Rating System, this translated into the 2.5 grams per day of O-3 acids.
I mean, it seems reasonable to me, no? I have no way of evaluating the above, other than to go directly to the studies and draw my own conclusions, which I am not about to do.
I think it comes down to what I said earlier..... there is a personal bias embedded, even in "scientific" information. | |
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| Fish Oil
Posted: 5/23/2008 4:45:04 PM | Something said a conference doesn't establish a value. But for argument's sake, let's say that there actually is a recommended value of 2.5 grams per day, and further that the Whole Foods site information is accurate.
The Whole Foods site says that 4 oz of salmon provides 87 percent of the n-3 acids required for one day. That would be approximately 2.18 grams. Let's say you eat salmon 3 times a week, that's 6.54 grams of n-3 acids.
If the requirement is 2.5 grams per day, that means you need to consume 17.5 grams of n-3 acids per week. So you are getting about a third of that value from the fish. Therefore, eating salmon even 3 times a week doesn't begin to provide you with the required amount. | |
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| Fish Oil
Posted: 5/24/2008 8:10:18 AM | I think I see where the confusion comes in.
My statement "eating fish 2-3 week is as effective as taking supplements" was not derived from the Worlds Healthiest Food site (not Whole Foods, which is a supermarket chain).
I don't actually recall where I obtained that information from since I read many articles in the course of a week.
Something said a conference doesn't establish a value.
WHF site gives this explanation of their ratings, and acknowledges that for some foods, they had to develop their own standard:
"For most of our nutrient ratings, we adopted the government standards for food labeling that are found in the U.S. Food and Drug Administration's "Reference Values for Nutrition Labeling."
Where none exist, they relied on the expertise of presenters at a seminar. I don't find that particularly misleading.
While I'm willing to consider information presented by a nutritionist on the payroll of Mercola, I am not willing, without more justifiable reason, to assign it more credibility than other sources who provide documentation; again, it comes down to a personal, subjective bias as to which sources to rely on when there is conflicting information.
I have friends who conduct research, (one is a researcher for the USDA, the other a medical researcher), and I worked at UC Davis for 2 years in a research facility. I know that frequently different conclusions can be derived from the same set of data by different individuals, even different departments competing for limited funding.
The field of science, as indicated by the history of Dr. Lister, (from which we get Listerine) is as much effected by personal bias and ego as it is by any objective analysis of the data, if not more so in some cases.
With that said, you obviously have spent much time in the field analyzing information and reviewing articles. Sometimes, we just have to agree to disagree and acknowledge that different sources interpret the information differently.
Your source may be right on. Knowing this, I subscribe more to the theory of "everything in moderation, nothing in excess". Knowledge is a self-correcting system.... we hold to one set of ideas only until new information comes in..... then we modify and adapt the old. The old is sometimes very reluctant to go though, not just for ego reasons, but also when a cash cow is involved.
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