This is a scientific article, which has nothing to do with Pascal's Gambit. It only states some facts based on statistics. Statistics that show Atheism is more related to emotional disturbance resulting to suicide, than Theism.

For me, that proves that the rejection of God is simply unnatural to the human psyche.

During all recorded human history, there has never been a substantiated case of a living thing being produced from anything other than another living thing.

As yet, Evolutionism has not produced a scientifically credible explanation for the origin of such immense complexities as DNA, the human brain, and many other complex elements of the cosmos.

It is highly premature for materialists to claim that all living things evolved into existence, when science has yet to discover how even one protein molecule could actually have come into existence by natural processes.

There is no scientific proof that life did (or ever could) evolve into existence from non-living matter. Further, there is substantial evidence that spontaneous generation is impossible. Only DNA is known to produce DNA. No chemical interaction of molecules has even come close to producing this ultra-complex code which is so essential to all known life.

also how about this, is it true or not, well look it up.

Dr. Stanley Miller and Dr. Sidney Fox were two of the first scientists to attempt laboratory experiments aimed at trying to prove that life could arise spontaneously. They designed a Pyrex apparatus containing methane, ammonia, and water vapor, but no oxygen. Through this mixture they passed electric sparks to simulate lightning strikes.
What was the result? No life was produced, of course, but the electricity did combine some atoms to form amino acids. To date, all attempts to prove that life could have evolved on Earth by any natural means have also failed.

and if evolution was taking place, why aren't we seeing a pop up of new species forming from old species?

As Einstein figured out that somewhere out in space a black hole existed long before anyone else ever thought of anything like it, if he says God exists who are we to argue? But I'm sure people that come to POF are smarter than Einstein..LOL.

The suggestion that the development in bacteria of resistance to antibiotics as a result of genetic mutations or DNA transposition somehow “proves” organic evolution is flawed. Macroevolution requires change across phylogenetic boundaries. In the case of antibiotic-resistant bacteria, that has not occurred.

Can a life have a meaning beyond a chaotic random horribly comlex system?

1a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
1b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

Atheists most certainly fall under the 4th and broader definition of religion. In fact atheism has "leaders" that most other atheists will agree with, so even definition 3 would apply to atheism. And let's not confuse religion with faith:

1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief. See Synonyms at trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.

So to say that atheism does not require "faith" defies the definition of the word itself. Faith DOES NOT require a supernatural focus or religion. Atheists have faith in science, have faith that their interpretation of things is correct, and are just as zealous about their faith as any religious zealot (attend an atheistic gathereing and you will know what I mean.)

The ONLY reason the atheist so vehemently denies their belief system as a "religion" is because of separation of church and state. If atheism is recognized for the religious construct that it is, they would be in the same boat politically as the theist religions.

For there to be heat and light, there must be matter that is causing it.

The odds of I existing, are miraculous enough, to know that it is not by accident or by default that I even exist at all.

Question for Atheists.. if you don't believe in a higher power or religion or any of that jazz.. why is it so important to correct the rest of us who do? What should it matter? Why post in a religion forum at all?

"Man" has no more explanation or answers in this world than what the "God" does. So who should we believe?? Man or God?? Why "Man"?? If you ask me why God, then I will tell you that I believe in what He teaches and I have faith in Him and what He teaches. Don't put words in my mouth, because I am not saying that I don't trust man. I trust man, but I don't put my faith in man.

Before we ask whether God exists, should we ask whether our consciousness will survive death? The existence of ghosts or spirits in our own dimension is widely documented and accepted. Some of these entities have been around in houses and castles for centuries. Although this alone does not constitute proof of life after death it definitely defies both physics and atheistic logic.

You can't! Everything made has the limitations of the one making it so an ifinate God could never have been created by anything less.

Who is responsible if after an entire life of devotion, they get the the Pearly Gates only to learn their belief system was not what God wanted.

One thing I will point out though, is that 'talk.origins' and 'wikipedia' are now under careful scrutiny and investigation for misinformation, slanderous postings by the common public, unsubstantiated, non-scientific claims, and outright lies...
And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Feel free to find a better book that defines you and you as well as the Bible does, especially your faults.

As I had mentioned previously, the human race is ganing knowledge on all fronts at an ever increasing exponential rate every year. A few years ago, concepts like man flying, able to reach speeds faster than sound, man on the moon; Well, I could go on and on, with the advances mankind has made as a species. Having said that, what with even new discoveries all the time scientifically, etc, it stands to logical reason, that even proofs for at least even the existence for some kind of supreme being, or beings plural will be found.

Technologies today will be outdated soon, much like we have cast aside many an old technology or item of the past. My opinion, as stated as an opinion before, is that while we 'today' can not place 'god' in a test tube, we may however 'tomorow'.

Even the very 'scientific methods' we employ today, no doubt will be outdated at a future point in time.

So, for any one person or persons to exclaim 'there is no god', in reality they are saying, they are a self declared expert almost on the cosmos itself, and have somekind of conclusive proof that there is no said supreme being of sorts.
Also as mentioned, I feel that it is sometimes not so much the argument for what constitutes the existence of a higher power, but what exactly that definition of actual said supreme being may, or may not be.

Yes, there are those that seem to want to push their religious beliefs on others, as the only way that is right in their mind, but equally dangerous are those on the other end of the spectrum, who are just as dogmatic in their defences of atheism.
The same hyper emotional state seems to be brought out from both camps when the word 'god' is mentioned in any way, those for, screaming just as loudly as those against.

Do you feel that when they took God out of school, that this opened doors up for satan to lead our childrens lives, by putting our childrens lives in jeopardy? Would you contuine to put your children through such schools where God has been taken out??

'maybe you were created by deralict on another planet much more intelegent than you, and you don't even know you don't exist, what a shame.'

really you believe that man created God? Since you think this is a wise statement, I would like to know just how you think everything came about using man only. You are saying man created God therefore, everything in existence is created by man. Would like to know how we created it and ourselves into being? Obviously you are extremely lost!

Now, you are irrational. Christianity IS the right way. Islam is not. That's the whole point.
Not that I am Catholic, because I am not. But Christianity is the only valid religion.

How could people be so niave about the dangers in iraq,
reason as example, those guys who are hostage in iraq are civilian went there as a bunch of bible thumpers who think they can change things cause they have a book in their ahands
problems is that people of iraq are not christian and are like islamic
plus those poeple are taught that people from western countries are evil

If there be a all powerful being, it would bless the true religion. Its true religion would be hard workers, and would prosper. Notice all the Christian nations....and how they have prospered. I ask you, what greater sign would you have in your life, for a religion to look at.

Well, Paul (New Testament) was a genius/master of "logic" in the Rabbinical Method and in Stoic Greek philosophy. If you need to embrace logic ... check it out.

to Mewtwo: "This means there is no way for any Atheist to be shown that God exists unless God himself does the work."
I have to differ with that statement. In my case God had been showing himself for years surely to you too, but I didn't want to see. I didn't open my mind to him. I had a brick wall.
Not God. As I said, he speaks differently than you and I do with these typed words and our voices. His voice is like a sunset, sunrise, fox that stops to ponder you.

These things don't speak in our language either; but because you see them, albeit you don't touch them, you do believe in them.

I understand that you don't get it. You think a Christian is mentally impaired.

Note: I had to do as God asked of me. I had to give up myself to him completely and ask forgiveness / cleansing / for my prior sins (as few as I knew to ask forgiveness for).
He complied. Then I ask for proof. He complied.

If God doesn't exist, then what is existence?

Is the universe just physical?

What about quantum physics? Is the universe circular? Meaning without beginning and without end?

If it is, as many scientists believe, then how did the concept come to be? If you don't like the word God, how about Supreme Being or Supreme Intelligence?

Can there be life without a giving or originating force?

If so, how did all everything come to be? If all sprung up without God, then what is being? Is being an illusion? Are we simply space recognizable only by some force that holds together enough nothingness to be perceptible?

Well Kid, then you'll have a long wait with your closed minded views.

What proof could YOU give that it actually happened to YOU?

Bright1Raziel, in post #40, you imply that so long as business is meeting a demand in the market place, it is right and moral to sell that product. I assume you are using this to claim that the porn industry is not doing anything wrong and that porn is a good thing.

That line of reasoning is not very convincing. There are markets for all sorts of things that are bad for us. Crack and crystal meth, sawed off shotguns, white-sticks-of-death (aka cigarettes...the topic for another thread).

There are even markets for flim-flam medicines that harm instead of heal (and turn a tidy profit for the con artists)

Just because someone is willing to buy a product does NOT mean that it is moral to produce, sell, or use that product.

I am not convinced that porn is good, clean, wholesome, honest fun/entertainment.

Uhmmm...He already did...about 2000+ years ago...and "The Holy Spirit" left behind for us, still calls...

So, ball is in your court...believe what is written...or not...

I came to this conclusion by your own words. You by saying you would verify by a doctors statement show you lack the essential ingredient to hearing God.....FAITH.... You apparently lack this necessary and vital attribute. Because only with faith can you truly believe. Search deep with in your soul not as an adult but as a child this blind faith is what will open doors for you. Jesus said "Suffer the little children to come unto me such is the kingdom of heaven" Only in the innocence can we open our hearts to him. The problem is we are too smart for our own good.

But in this case there is otherways to provide a point of view
The Earth its size is perfect.

The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter. Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.
The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.

And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet it restrains our massive oceans from spilling over across the continents.
Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:
It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.
Water is a universal solvent. This property of water means that thousands of chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels.
Water is also chemically inert. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body.
Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.
Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.
Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.

Your brain registers emotional responses, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.
The human brain processes more than a million messages a second.8 Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. A brain that deals with more than a million pieces of information every second, while evaluating its importance and allowing you to act on the most pertinent information...can we say mere chance brought about such an astounding organ?
Only a mind more intelligent and knowledgeable than humanity could have created the human brain.

God will pove himself to you, but maybe too late for some or they would have wished to have known Him long before. This is the choice you have. But He will reveal Himself it really is up to you when either you seek him or He will come to save you from self destruction for He does love everyone and does not wish for them to perish.

This is the very reason why he will not reveal himself to you if he did you would simply dismiss it. Instead he send people to inform you. This you apparently dismiss also. So what would it take to convince you? From what Ive read if he spit in your hair you would not believe it happened. and would probably argue their was a logical explanation.

Judging God is a risky business. One you don't know Gods motivatiosn or the situation on the ground. If he is indeed omnipotent, then his reactions ar eprobably exactly what was needed at the time to achiev ethe desired affect he was after.

If a person opposes even the possibility of there being a God, then any evidence can be rationalized or explained away.

But for myself I know God exists and some of these thoughts came to me wondering of Him, and what the Bible said. It really is not my place to prove God to you, It will be God himself one day. I do not wish to tell you all the things i have learnt through many others but just a thought for you to consider.

God's thoughts, personality, and attitudes can only be known if God chooses to reveal them. All else would be human speculation. We are at a loss if God does not wish to be known. But God wants us to know Him and has told us in the Bible all we need to know about His character and how to relate to Him. This makes the reliability of the Bible an important consideration.

God spoke to me; therefore God exists.

Ok now see those tribal people? I can assure you they knew there is a God.
What about all those people who know God and experienced His love are they being selfish? I hope not. Expressing it is something that takes a time to develop and a learning curve you get from the Holy Spirit.
What about all those people who foolishly say the Lord's name in Vain? Ever wonder how they come to know His name and may not even be aware that they are sinning?
There is a universal belief in God. And in the earliest histories and legends of people all around the world, the original concept was of one God, who was the Creator. An original high God seems once to have been in their consciousness.

Now here is another angle Man goes to the moon before he even understands Himself. Ok now this is a bit wierd but do you believe the was men on the moon? Seems a bit hard to believe doesn't it. Is it just as hard to believe that God crwated the world and all you see in it? Look at how complex we are and they cannot figure out the simple common cold remidy. Our brain another mysterious wonder they cannot explain yet God has worked it out so well and made the Living planet so complex that we are unble to get the jist of it.
Look at the Oil spills and how things in the ocean have changed to accomidate it, or repair it slowly. Or just the complexity that there are fish in the water and water freezes and the ice is on top. What about the wonderful light of the moon and sun and it warming feeling? the stars that show light? alll this was created by His Word.

If you can tell me how this all came to be without a God I'll have to hand it to ya.

These threads are just debate things to try and quash the idea of God, I woould much rather help develop the idea's of what God has done or is going to do than prove mindless little games on here always. To be honest.

As a Christian do you not think there are many that have questions regarding the Gospels or the Word itself. Perhaps the Laws or even the trinity.

These were better subjects that we can all look into with a satisfying feeling of learnig of Him rather than doing this that try to prove or deny Him.