If the person you were dating was keeping from you this bit of information of their past; as in a skeleton in their personal closet so to speak. The injury happened long before you met and from all outward appearances they appear to have healed and appear “normal” in your eyes, they are able to hold down a job/career, they have goals and aspirations and the ability to reach and attain them, they are able to take care of themselves and any dependent children... everything about them seems normal... you have accepted them and their little quirks as them just being them.

Well, I for one will be honest. It sounds like you have a bit more than friends with Benefits to me.

So nothing has changed at all? still a bunch of angry people calling anyone who agrees with the OP names... crazy.

Some of you are wasting your lives

No one man here has said they wished to be able to birth a child.

what would that make a man, who's capable of being more desirable than an "Alpha"?

The "brass tacks" are that a fertile woman engaging in recreational sex only becomes a mother and child by CHOICE , as evidenced by fertile women who CHOOSE NOT to become mother and child, while engaging in recreational sex under the exact same circumstances

Bvllshit.

Artificial insemination.
Surrogate mothers.
Sperm Donors

If I walk away from sex with her, is that imposing my will on HER?

The "brass tacks" are that a fertile woman engaging in recreational sex only becomes a mother and child by CHOICE , as evidenced by fertile women who CHOOSE NOT to become mother and child, while engaging in recreational sex under the exact same circumstances.

There is nothing more important to establishing and maintaining a long lasting relationship than sexual chemistry.

Put him (even if he was the same age as me) among the 100 men and women on that island I was talking about, most (if not all) 100 women would trample him in order to get to me.

And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
~Friedrich Nietzsche~

that she is pregnant and must deal with that, and that her three choices, which she cannot avoid, are akin to

deciding which cliff she should jump from?

We have men saying that their financial support is such a certainty and such a huge amount that a woman will

deliberately get pregnant in order to secure such a windfall, or will refuse abortion because she sees a lifetime of

ease for herself at the man's expense. And yet, here you are saying that the financial support she might be able to

get is of no consequence for her decision.

Which is it? The possibility of financial support doesn't affect her decision one way or another, or it's a

significant reason as to why she doesn't choose abortion?

It's far easier to go the emotional approach in a debate and turn the thread into a debate about what's right

for the child when that wouldn't even be an issue (no child) if women were more responsible for their bodies in the

first place.

Considering all the improvements they have made in cotraception it just doesn't fly that the number of

"accidental" pregnancies has risen. To put all the blame on men for the lack of condom use is also a crock.

I'm entitled to think or say people are evil when they abandon their children So what.

Oh and that would explain the millions of men who walk away from kids they fathered in a committed

relationship.

Off topic. Women do that as well. So your point is moot

Most single women complain a heck of a lot. About their past life, current life, how hard it is to be a

single mom, how horrible their ex is, how men aren't understanding enough, blah, blah

It;s clearly obvious that you fit that stereotype, nothing more pathetic then a woman who has sex with a

badboy because at that time he was the coolest guy with the hot bod and you guys partied your ass off, only to find

out you weren't the soul mates you had hoped for when you told him you were late.

One, change your screen name
Two, stop announcing that you are weird, strange, unusual, different.
Three, if you think that stuff about yourself, then change to what you like.
Four, if you do not want to change, then own who you are and be happy and proud of it.

Seriously, why would anyone jump to get attached to a person that has low self-esteem? Telling the world how strange you are and expecting to attract the opposite sex from it is Jr. High school stuff. Get a makeover and think, look and act your age. You might be surprised.

In the event that a woman is unable to support a child, she should not have one (get an abortion).

where the woman can do whatever she wants

I have been wondering if I have to suffer through the rest of my life alone too.

I think you need to wake up. FWB *IS* using each other for sex.. so it's not far off from all similar behaviour, I'll refrain from specifying the labels for your benefit.

She's ignores views that conflict with hers

but how would a woman feel if a guy have the veto power to freely choose the destiny of her potential offspring?

As others have suggested: she doesn't want the child, but he does. She carries it to full-term and the father takes full responsibility for rearing the child.

Not the best option, but an option that in no way currently exists, for men.

She wants the child, he doesn't, but she carries the child to full-term and takes full responsibility for the child.

It has been interesting for the last 6 pages. I have a thought (lightbulb here).

Since most of the women on here feel so strongly on the subject. How many would support a constitutional amendment that would do away with Roe v. Wade? No more abortions!! That way we all know the child comes first!! CS would be in place to get that extra support from the dads. Recreational sex would be reduced to mostly those willing to be tied or snipped! The child would be cared for, everybody wins!!!!!!!!

How about it ladies?????????

It's not about Child Support; not about shedding responsibility; not about whether both parties (he and she) used protection; not about DNA.....it's about the absence of choice for him in the event of an accidental pregnancy. I.e., SHE HAS "ALL THE SAY" REGARDING AN UNWANTED PREGNANCY

why can't that be serious, its not very far fetched and any sexually open person will be willing to do those things in a short period of time as well, I know that for a fact because I dated a few of those kinds of people.

it begins to look as if men will use any excuse to avoid CS and parental privileges when it suits them, yet also demand the rights to parental privilege when that suits them.
This is the feeling i am getting from all of this too..


What I find quite interesting is that many men seem to think that their roles as Fathers is being dismissed and trivialized, they are upset that Fathers rights are not important and they feel that they arent taken seriously by the courts and are unfairly treated, they find the idea of being considered just a sperm donator offensive and unfair.
BUT when the issue of an unwanted pregnancy rears its head all of a sudden their position is that ALL they ever were was a sperm donator, that their only role in the whole situation was to have sex, and shouldnt be held responsible for being a Father and supporting that child.
Yes throughout this thread it seems that men want it both ways. Many are complaining that they don't get to have a say in what happens in the case of an unwanted pregnancy, but what it comes down to is that THEY want to have all of the say instead of the woman

where is that strawman when we need him. He would make a good sleeping matress.

Of course it makes fora family court system that will damn near fall over of it's own weight, and I suspect income, property, sales and other taxes will have to be raised on ALL of the citizens, to deal with the inherent risk of sexual intercourse,but if that's what it takes so that men don't feel so abused and hard done by, I say "Fair enough."

True, and mighty sporting of you, Cindy, to be willing to make us all pay so that men don't have to.

If someone doesnt want to be a father so be it... LET THEM GO!
Why chase after them for money? for revenge? making their child miserable seeing such stupidity!
Some of u are debating the issue of forcing morality and goodness onto people that dont have it or want it.

If someone wants to do the right thing they will....
If not then so be it.. but getting them to do the right thing is only going to get resentment and a hard life for the CHILD!
Drop this its you people fighting with each other and not helping the person who posted in the fist place!

If there was 100 males, and 100 females, stranded on a deserted island,

with no hope of ever being rescued,

A real man doesn't pay child support, he spends half his time raising that child and making whatever changes in his life to do so...at least that's what I have done.

Both sexes have input over pregnancy, but only one has the final decision over having a baby...there's your round room now go find a corner...

Although if having an active sex life for half my life and managing to not impregnate anyone makes me come across as a walking penis with cognitive limitations to the REAL women you describe? You can keep them.

The smokescren is the USE by men of the EQUALITY card as a vehicle to argue the CS issue.

We had less problems with unwanted pregnancies aka "accidents" in the "civilized" portions of the world when there weren't any other forms of birth control other than abstinance or the rhythm method. It certainly makes one wonder if we are truly evolving or regressing.

i do respect your passion for the subject, and i hope you're not a single mother who collect support and feels i'm hating you for it, I'm not.

Women won't keep their legs closed lol women have never kept their legs closed, women love sex, if you want to stop having sex, by all means, go ahead.

If women want to take away men's ownership during pregnancy, that means men have the right to free away from responsibility. Very simple

It you want to flick on and off men's ownership of the child like a switch, men are entitled to it to.

If it was, then sperm donors would also have to pay child support.

but if i enter a relationship with a single mother, im liable for her child if we break up.....

Yes, they are but the problem is that women get to choose if they want to carry on with it, men don't.

It's not a problem, it's a fact.
Yes, it's inherently unfair that men can't give birth. On behalf of whoever created the first atom which eventuated into human beings, I apologise.
Now if you don't want to see unjustice done, use protection.

And I have repeatedly addressed that if a man is obligated to pay child support for a child that he doesn’t want, it means that he is forced into 50 percent ownership of that child. Which also means that he has 50 percent ownership of the child before it’s born. If you claim that the man doesn’t have 50 percent of ownership of the child, that means he is not obligated to pay child support when the child is born

All this whining about lack of men's rights is IS A RED HERRING designed to BE USED as a vehicle/smokescreen to your main whine. That is having to pay CS in any shape or form.

don't want to speak for the entire gender there cuddler, but I certainly don't need your advice on how to pick up women. Especially since your advice seems to be "do whatever she says and don't disagree"

Thanks but no thanks. I've seen a bunch of men like you, lacking the self respect to stand up for their own opinions and instead kow tow to the nearast person that will give them the slightest bit of praise.

So, pretending we could all just sign a petition and fix it next week, what is the answer?
Assuming a situation where neither adult intended pregnancy and one occurred anyway:
If a man and a woman cannot agree about the outcome of a pregnancy, who gets to make the final decision?
Should an objective third party be involved to determine the fairest “resolution” when the couple involved cannot come to an agreement?
Should a woman be forced to gestate or allow surrogacy of the man’s child, if he wants it?
If so, should he be expected to support or recompense her in carrying the child to term or for whatever costs involved in surrogacy, as well as some "damages" for the physical effects related to pregnancy/medical procedures?
After the child is born, should she then be liable for child support paid to the father?

Should binding and written agreements be mandatory prior to sex and if that step is dispensed with and an accidental pregnancy results, both parents are fined regardless of the outcome of the pregnancy?

If an interested father can force gestation/surrogacy on a woman, would that make enforced CS on disinterested fathers “fair”?
If abortion is the option chosen, should the man be obligated to pay 50% of the medical costs, as well as damages to the woman for the physical effects of having his child conceived within her, and the medical procedure to remove it?

In the case where the interested parent has a low income, should abortion/adoption be enforced, if the disinterested parent is unwilling to pay support?
If yes to the above, wouldn’t that unfairly penalize those men and women who are less financially able – forcing them to agree to abortion or adoption regardless of their personal beliefs and the lifelong distress they may be subject to as a result?
Should poorer people be excluded from having children, planned or unplanned?

Another men’s rights issue is Paternity Fraud so lets fix that too.
Should mandatory DNA testing for all births to determine paternity be implemented?
Should the bio-father be found and held liable for child support in all cases where it’s discovered the woman deceived a man regarding the paternity of the child he’s raising?
If so, isn’t that again stepping on the rights of men who had sex, but didn’t intend children?
In the case of paternity fraud, should neither the bio nor the step father be held financially liable?
If so, doesn't that unfairly punish the child for something they had no choice about, under the guise of punishing the mother?
In the case of paternity fraud, should women be fined?
In paternity fraud, should either bio or step-father automatically be awarded custody of the kids, and the woman obligated to CS?
If the bio or stepparent declines custody, should he still be liable for CS for the benefit of the kids?

Women need to act like adults here and take some responcibility for their actions, if they bring a child into the world, women should understand they are forever changing the life of two other people.

seriously how cruel could someone be? having a child with the knowledge that that child will go hungry without someone else feeding it...

The first thing many of you have to get past is the idea that sex is such a bad thing.

You also have to get past the idea that you only want to have sex with those who feels the same way about sex as you.

They should be qualified sexually as soon a possible! And if everything else is there, than a first date is fine.

Orgasm does not make good sex!

whole lot of emotion, time, and money only to find out there is no sexual compatibility. What a waste…

Sex in the beginning of a relationship is as much of an application process as the rest is.

Otherwise, you may just find yourself years into a relationship and having the same boring lousy unfulfilling sex life that you should have made a better decision on earlier in the process

And you cant love someone more than the bad sex they are getting from you in order for them to love you back. I just doesn’t work.

So meet someone, talk a bit. go out a couple of times and then f*ck them!

No there is not when it comes to a kid. If you want a man to be “responsible” for a kid, that only means you claim his part of the ownership. If that was not the case, do you think you could claim responsibly upon a man who was not the sperm owner of the kid?

Missed a period, and she still won't take a home pregnancy test??
Are you an enabler, or what

It's never her fault for not using birth control, putting on a female condom, our having sex at a time she knows she can become pregnant. It's ALWAYS our fault for not using a condom, not getting a vasectomy, and "being ruled by our d**k.".

Wow you just ruined my image of you as a sweet liitle old lady but like one of the previous posters said ya just are stickin' it to us for the sins of our fathers

if the fate of that child was in the fathers hands, women would think twice about popping out children,

On a less-unserious note: those sortsa women UNDERSTOOD what men really consider important, and weren't trying to fluff up their own egos by "showing up" men at every turn.

If the man claims that he doesn't want the kid during pregnancy, he should be set free from any responsibility

Wouldn't that make things a bit more easier?

In case you ladies have not figured it out yet -- the majority of men are raised to not take well to ultimatiums -- not from dictators, tyrants, friends, or relationship partners. So of course it is a major red flag to see irrational demands in a profile. Not sure why so many seem to find that hard to understand.

Of those 850,000 abortions just how many did it because they were broke or weren't ready or just said no freakin' way am I gonna be a mom!? How many of those 850,000 do you think there was a man willing to take the child?

Membership here in the pond is growing all the time so it must be going well huh? Men just lllooooovvveee raising another man's child, can't get enough of that.

We're long past that. Contraception fails, and you'll be hard pressed to keep people from having recreational sex. The general consensus among women is that it's the man's fault for having sex with his partner that she is the victim despite having all the cards if she gets pregnant.

He took precautions, those precautions failed, his choices aren't taken into account.

The Status Quo has seriously tainted how men approach relationships. I hope women are happy.

The Status Quo has seriously tainted how men approach relationships. I hope women are happy.

But if YOU can decide not to be a mother after you get pregnant, WE should be able to decide not to be a father after you get pregnant, financially or otherwise

We won't force you to give a kid up for adoption, or abort

Might I remind you that the main point of this thread is, or was, women who deliberately use sex and pregnancy to snare a man, or get out of working for a living,men who feel they are TRICKED INTO FATHERHOOD and the financial ramifications thereof.


I just need to make a correction to this statement that women get pregnant so they can get out of working for a living.

Most stay-at-home mothers work very hard and their hours of work are not limited to the usual 8 hours that most people in the paid workforce enjoy.

What Verity is doing is bating most of you into continuing this ridiculous dialog.

Fraught with semantics and childish retorts, this thread has become laughable.

Quite simply it boils down to 2 people copulating and ultimately having to accept any bi-product of this union.

He said - she said BS abounds.

Grow up. You have sex, you know what can happen and you act like an adult.

They are tricked into pregnancy, they couldn't have avoided sex,

The title of this thread is "Are women playing God when they become pregnant".
Don't want to assist a woman in "playing GOD"? Keep your penis out of her vagina.
Avoid the inherent risk of fatherhood, subjugation, abuse and being controlled by a woman's vagina.

The question has become, why are you upholding an unjust status quo that allows her to subjugate men, instead of agreeing that she should not be LEGALLY allowed to?

I'm not asking you to change it, but why are you reluctant to admit that it's unjust?

That's the REAL issue...

If a woman chooses NOT to have an abortion, well - it's her body, not yours.

False.
A man IS NOT GIVEN the option to mitigate the outcome.


Yes, he has the option to REFUSE TO PARTICIPATE IN AN ACTIVITY THAT HAS AN INHERENT RISK OF REPRODUCTION.

You are changing the topic. Strawman.
Moot point.
A woman has the option to refuse as well.

But WHY does she ONLY have the RIGHT to mitigate the outcome?

A woman has the option to refuse as well.

And society has structured it where they are subsidized to make the choice if they do.

There is a LARGE space between "f*ckbuddy"( booty call, NSA,whatever) and "girlfriend" or "boyfriend". It is called FRIEND with BENEFITS.

Yeah keep telling yourself that lady.

The purpose of a label is to define what IT is. It is the OP who has labelled it a FWB and all it implies.

Rationalize it how you want. FWB exists to serve the lowest common denominator.

Wouldn't it be a great world for the men if they can just go and screw anyone they want without ANY connection to the women, or just date here and there and fuuk who ever they want and have ZERO responsibilities of any outcome.

My gawddddd men are getting wossier and wossier every day.

Nor do I think many women are willing to be forward thinking, as well. That's all.

Correct. Men are not ENTITLED anymore. Face it, that's what this is all about.

You are not entitled to do what you want with no responsibility for the outcome anymore.

There's no such thing as purely recreational sex. That's a fallacy and it is the stubborn inisitence of this fallacy that causes all the problems. Unless you are infertile, sex is just a game of Russian roulette but you don't want to pay the potential price. You just want the laughs. That's the problem.

A consent to sex by a man, is no more an agreement to make a baby, than consent by a woman to have sex, is an agreement to make a baby.
I asked very clearly to give one of two answers.
1- Agree
2- Disagree

If enough men continue to make noise, who knows? Perhaps men will come to be considered "persons" with regards to equal reproductive rights

Every day I thank providence I'm single.

False.
A man IS NOT GIVEN the option to mitigate the outcome.

bet that a lot woman would not be too happy if there was a law that made retroactive DNA testing mandatory for previous children, with the threat of fines and incarceration for fraud of the paternity of the child.

All of your collective arguments are strawmen.

Simply put, Girlfriend trumps F*ck Buddy.

Yes she is lying to herself about what she REALLY desires.

Maturity comes in handy.