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Thread: Mandatory DNA tests at birth?

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 216 (view)

Mandatory DNA tests at birth? Posted: 11/25/2009 3:34:34 PM
So I guess being planned or not doesn't always matter. No it doesn't because 3 months in my ex was like "we made a mistake, I don't want to be a dad". "I'm not ready to be a father yet". Would have been nice if he had figured that out before we made the decision to get pregnant and I put my career on hold for him. My daughter is not yet 2 she doesn't understand the concept of "dad". That word isn't in her vocabulary. She has grandpa & uncle words that she can say and people she knows. Both her uncle and grandpa have played a way more active role in her life then her father. I took her to visit my ex when she was 6 months old she was terrified of him. He wasn't dad. They hadn't bonded. My ex will never pay support because he knows how to cheat the system and he can always get paid under the table. She has her father's last name she will know who her SPERM DONNER IS but he is not her father by any means. REAL father I'm sorry thats BS. A REAL father doesn't turn his back on his child. A REAL father doesn't neglect his child because that child is an inconvience and interfers with what he wants to do. A REAL father loves and nutures his child. A REAL father puts his child's needs above his own. A REAL father doesn't refuse to hold his new born baby, or for that matter yell at his sleeping baby because he wants her to wake up. Anything else is being a sperm donner. I know what a REAL father is. And a man doesn't have the right just to play daddy when its convient for him. Just like I don't have the right to be a bad mother. It is my duty to always put my daughter's needs first if I didn't I wouldn't have any right being a mother. If I couldn't be the best mother I could be I should never have had a child. Do you have any friends that were adopted? I do. And I tell you their parents are the ones that raised and nutured them not the ones that they share DNA with. It is not my job to force my ex to have a relationship with his daughter. It is my job to provide for my daughter and be the best mom I can be. I can only be in charge of my actions not my ex's and if he doesn't want to be around for his daughter that's his decision. Father and mother are not just words that demonstrate a biological connection to a child they imply that you are a part of ur child's life. The words mother and father are words that are to be earned by the role we play in a child's life. A couple that adopt are no less parents because they do not have a biological connection to their child.

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 214 (view)

Mandatory DNA tests at birth? Posted: 11/25/2009 2:49:23 PM
What is it with (some) women, that they JUST DON'T GET that their objections ONLY APPLY TO VOLUNTARY TESTS?!? If it's MANDATORY, all those objections go away. I agree that would be a huge benefit of manditory testing. As I said there are definately some pros. The reason I would have been insulted is not because he was saying I cheated but that he would have been denying that he had taken an active role in getting me pregnant. That he wanted our child as much as I did. Where do you get that I'm saying that it wouldn't take out the stigma that is now associated with having to get a dna test. All I did was provide a few examples where it might not be beneficial to have mandatory testing. I would hate for any man to tell our child that he was trapped or tricked and that his child was a mistake. I would rather the father be absent then to say those things to his child. My ex has never accused me of trapping him by having our child or that I used him as a meal ticket because I haven't reported him for not paying his cs. Remember that case where the teacher (woman) raped her young elementary school student and got pregnant twice by the same minor. And supposively they were madly in love and blah blah blah. And she had a family already. Her husband divorced her and took the kids. Rightly so. The woman shouldn't have been let out on bail to rape her young student again. I don't know what happened in the end result but she should have lost those children too. She committed a crime she shouldn't have had any rights to those children because she was being rewarded for committing a crime. If a woman is doing drugs while she is pregnant I say throw her butt in jail so that she can't do drugs and harm her unborn child. So even though some people are thinking I'm claiming that the mother's rights trump those of the father that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the child's rights should trump those of the adults. And in case of abuse/rape I do think protecting the child outweighs the rights of the father or the mother if she rapes a man she's obviously an unfit mother too. I have no objections to manditory DNA testing on the principle. You would get ride of the stigma. I was just stating that there were situations where it wouldn't be a good thing. I didn't actually say that to my ex I said IF... IF... I never called my ex any nasty names. I never did anything nasty to my ex. I did play nice. I went out of our way to try and make our family work but at the end of the day he didn't want the responsibility of being a father. So I know saying things out of anger can bite you in the butt its why I never did it. He was the one that didn't show up for the mediation. He was the one that made fun of the fact that he was going to take me for every dime I had in front of people at the court house at our appearance. And in no way or form have I denied my ex access to his daughter. I used to send pictures, updates but the man has no interest. Some people are jumping to conclusions. When you miss reading the IF part you miss the fact that I never said that or did any of that. Nor have I denied any of the pros that have been argued. I've had one planned pregnancy. I did not trick my ex into having a baby. Our baby wasn't unplanned. I haven't denied him his rights as a father I didn't deny him a DNA test because he never asked for one. But I still argue that a child's rights should come first above the adults and thats why we have things such as social services to make sure that no child is neglected or abused. Because parents don't always do whats in the best interest of the child. Did he tie you up and keep you locked in a room.... um when we were trying to get pregnant we did little else...

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 210 (view)

Mandatory DNA tests at birth? Posted: 11/25/2009 1:33:56 PM
"If my ex had asked for a DNA test yeah I would have told him to go f himself and not to ever come around because it would have been very insulting and we both know that he is the father. " The reason I said that I would have said this is because we were in a committed relationship we were trying to get pregnant. We had unprotected sex for a month. He knew I was only having sex with him. So my feelings would have been extremely hurt and he would have known the only reason he was denying the DNA would be to get out of paying. And I wouldn't want him around our daughter to tell her that I had tricked him into getting pregnant or anything like that. I still would have given him a dna test if he had asked. I'm just saying my feelings would have been extremely hurt and that would have been my initial reaction. Please that wouldn't make me an unfit mother because I said one thing out of anger. Doesn't mean I would have denied him a DNA test. But my ex didn't ask for a dna test. Heck if my ex wants one now he can get one if he wants. Don't see why he would want one hasn't seen his daughter in over a yr. Hasn't paid child support in over a yr. We both know that our daughter is his. We also both know I will never see a dime from him in child support. And while yes it does take two people to make a child it only takes one to raise a child. You know what just because a woman gives birth doesn't make her a mother. She can put the child up for adoption. She can have her child taken away for being an unfit parent. Just because you put a lil dna into the equation doesn't make you a fit parent. And I don't think some people deserve to be parents. And obviously deciding to become a parent and making a baby doesn't make you a parent either. A parent is someone that provides for their child and strives to do the best they can for their child. DNA doesn't make you a parent. There are men & women that walk away from their child. Do you think DNA matters to them? No they still abandon their child. And parents don't have the right to abuse/neglect their children. And I'm a very fit mother with full custody of my child that does everything for my child on my own. If I hadn't met my ex I was going to use a friend and he was going to make an anonymous donation. And if I had gone that route he shouldn't have had to sign the birth certificate. Because maybe he wouldn't have wanted to acknowledge the child. Plus it would have been a deal between us where he would have had no parental rights. Going to take away a woman's right to use a sperm donner just so that we can have mandatory testing?

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 203 (view)

Mandatory DNA tests at birth? Posted: 11/25/2009 11:39:10 AM
Sorry guys have to say this one as women don't often deny a child is theirs. Less men running around saying not my child so they can get out of any responsibilities. It would save taxpayers money on going to court to order paternity tests and then spending too much time trying to find the guy in the first place. matariki the reason you are supporting mandatory DNA testing is because ur fool of an ex is claiming that your son isn't yours and for no other reason then to get out of paying child support. Is he paying cs for your daughter? If my ex had asked for a DNA test yeah I would have told him to go f himself and not to ever come around because it would have been very insulting and we both know that he is the father. Knowing what I know now about the kind of father he turned out to be I wish I had put father unknown on my daughter's birth certificate rather then give him any kind of acknowledgment. I don't think a woman should have to be "forced" to say who the father is. If I don't want to say who the father is for any reason well its not like I can go after that man for support. I think there are valid reasons for keeping the DNA of a child a secret. It might be to protect the child from an abusive man. Lets face it there are some men who will harm their children and it is better to keep the existence of a child away from them. I also don't think that my example of a rapist is a valid point. A rapist shouldn't have any parental rights. No way would I want to acknowledge who the father was and want to share parenting rights with the man that attacked me. I see the valid points and reasoning for having mandatory DNA especially for medical reasons but I don't think a woman should be forced to name the father. I read this book "Imagination of Argentina" it was about the big brother theory. After the 2nd world war there was a brutal dictatorship in Argentina. The state acted like the floating eyeball. Anyone that spoke out against the state police were taken to prison they were tortured. Married women, young teen women were raped. The main characters their daughter was killed and the wife was raped. The wife returned home but she was pregnant. But she had slept with her husband before she had been taken prisoner. 1940s DNA not an option. But the parents in their grief decided that it was going to be their child even though the father might not be the biological father they would raise it as theirs. So biology doesn't always matter. A guy might be a sperm donner but that doesn't make him a father. When you allow the state to have too much power who is going to ensure that abuses don't occur? Anyway matariki you couldn't have foreseen that your ex was going to be a major douche-bag and deny your son because he didn't do it the first time around. And yes maybe hospitals should offer DNA testing right there they do other blood tests so if both parents are there they can do it. But I don't think its right to force a woman to say who the father is if she desires not to.

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 514 (view)

Why don't men date single mothers...the answer Posted: 11/24/2009 10:25:56 PM
Couple hundred years ago...having kids out of wedlock..haha! you'd get branded for that... like an animal! I probably would have gotten burned at the torch for being a witch couple hundred yrs ago for my radicalism... thank-goodness for progress... and yeah couple of hundred yrs ago women weren't considered individuals we were considered property. But yeah one has to no look further then these forums to see that the stigma of being an unwed mother is still good and a live.

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 34 (view)

anyone have an answer? Posted: 11/23/2009 11:28:11 PM
YOU made a kid UNMARRIED at 23. I'm SURE that YOUR parents were disappointed with the fact that you WERENT married.. HADNT established yourself as a grown adult.. and were now alone raising a baby. I KNOW they werent dancing the happy dance. Well I gave my parents advance notice that I would never be getting married so they were expecting me to have a child out of wedlock it came as no shock because they also knew I wanted a child. My parents didn't try to persuade me otherwise nor did they tell me to get married when I told them I was pregnant at 25. My parents realized early on that they raised an independent, strong willed daughter one that they are proud of. I was the first on both sides to get a University Degree. My mom didn't feel like she was ready to be a grandma when I told her. My dad wanted me to finish the paralegal program. I live with my parents as I was on the point of bankruptcy when I left my ex. I'd always been responsible financially but working and a newborn not a good mix. I loved living with my parents when I went to university I didn't have "rules" or a curfew. Sometimes OP my parents like to step on my toes. My dad always says "why don't you have 2 more". Both of them would be extremely upset if I moved out which I can afford to do but I don't plan to because the more family that is around my daughter the better and plus I can rebuild. Plus my dad has always been great with my daughter taking her for walks. My brother and his wife come and take clara to the park too. Really the benefits of having a supportive family out weighs the negative. My brother told me its time for clara to get a hair cut apparently they don't think her mullet is fashionable I like it though. Am I going to rush out and get her a hair cut? No. Am I going to be annoyed no. My dad tells me I buy way too many toys. I tell him politely that I'm 27 I work hard for my money and will spend it the way I want to. Most the time I just ignore his "constructive criticism". If u feel like ur being overwhelmed get out of the house for a bit. Take a walk, go to a park, go to the mall. Just have some alone time for you and ur child it'll make the worlds of difference. My daughter is not a mistake my parents don't view her as a mistake. They don't say I've messed up my life. They love their lil granddaughter way too much and they both think I made the right decision in leaving my ex. My dad would be bored to tears if he didn't get his time in with his granddaughter. I always feel very grateful for my parents they have always been very supportive and encouraging. It's a wonderful thing having supportive parents and I do consider myself very lucky.

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 147 (view)

Mandatory DNA tests at birth? Posted: 11/23/2009 4:52:20 PM
I seriously don't know of any woman that would carry a child of a rape to term. I met one she was an older woman in her 50s and was a demonstrator for anti-abortionist group on campus she had twin boys. She put the twins up for adoption. I didn't ask but I'm not sure if she needed the consensus of her attacker. Can you imagine if a rape victim wanted to put her child up for adoption but couldn't because the her attacker refused? Well, regardless, the man still has rights as a father. Why should the man have rights as a father if he raped the woman? He took her rights away and made her a victim. He did not have permission to be inside her so why should he have any rights of the consequences of that??? So the rapist has more rights then the victim because that was his sperm? There's something terribly wrong when you reward someone who breaks the laws of society at the cost of offering the woman and child protection. Why should he be able to be a part of that child's life? Just because he is the so called sperm donner. He gets to be reward for his crime??? Why should the rapist be entitled to any access to the child? Obviously he is unfit if he rapes a woman. So why should the rape victim of a violent crime have to endure contact with her attacker for the next 18 yrs. I think if a woman knew that she would have to endure that it would make the choice to abort a lot easier. What if the woman never reported the crime is she now forced to admit that she was raped when she goes to deliver her child and they request information for the manditory dna test? Now I would assume that most men in a loving relationship with a planned child are not going to ask for a DNA test. My ex didn't ask for a dna test. When we went to court I was almost expecting it but it was never requested. When you are dealing with a child whats in the child's best interests should trumph the rights of the parents. That's why courts are supposed to act in the best interest of the child. I personally see the benefit of having manditory blood testing done especially for medical reasons but I think it would be a grave mistake to force a woman to disclose the information of who the father is if she was raped. That would be making her a victim again.

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 123 (view)

Mandatory DNA tests at birth? Posted: 11/23/2009 12:03:37 PM
m_church I liked ur list you definately make some valid points. 2... If the father KNOWS it's his kid... he is more likely to pay support than if he is questioning it... Less court room tie-ups... However I think that is a lil optimistic. My ex never denied our daughter, never asked for a DNA test, gave her his last name and still doesn't pay support. As far as he's concerned she is his daughter just as long as he doesn't have to support her. Everyone has been listing good pros and cons but if you make dna tests mandatory is that for every woman??? What if a woman is raped. What if she doesn't want the father of her child recognized. Because if she has to get a DNA test then everyone will know that the father of her child was a rapist. So wouldn't she perfer to put father Unknown??? What if you don't want to recognize the father because that would give him rights as the father. To force a woman that's been raped to have a DNA test would be to victimize her again and for that reason alone I don't think you can't have manditory DNA tests. Not because the majority of women are trying to hide something but maybe because they should have the right not to reveal the dna of their child. But also what about the woman that goes to the sperm bank. Going to force donners to put their names on the birth certificate??? Sometimes couples use sperm/egg donners going to make them put the DNA of their child on record??? I think there are reasons why some people don't want to know the DNA of their child and they shouldn't be forced to reveal it. So I think manditory dna testing would be imposing on those peoples rights not to have dna testing. So mandatory dna testing doesn't really work for the situations I provided. If a man is in doubt he can pay for a dna test then he can have peace of mind that the child is his. But if a woman is unsure and there are 3/4 different possible baby daddy's well she could go on the Jerry Springer or anyother talkshow otherwise she should pay the costs.

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 27 (view)

Dating a Single Mother - Advice Posted: 11/20/2009 11:32:08 PM
hannity. You have so little regard for women as a whole. Do you even like women? Honestly I have my doubts that you even like women, or enjoy women but rather just see women as a means to an end. How is that a lie? I'm stating an opinion how I think you view women and especially single mothers. You go out of your way to stress we are not worth dating. You might not call us cum-dumpsters as some have or the bottom of the barrel but ur posts are just as insulting. Even though you throw insult with tact doesn't make it any less insulting. You assume that OP is way out of the single-moms league why just because she has a child. JUST BECAUSE A WOMAN HAS A CHILD DOESN'T MEAN SHE DOESN'T HAVE ANY SELF-WORTH. I hold the door open for people too its the polite thing to do. I hold the door open for children, for elderly, for men and for women. So what was ur point with that??? It's called having good manners. There are many legitimate reasons not to date single mothers because well we do have a shortage of time and sometimes drama but you go out of ur way to express reasons why a man shouldn't date a single mom which is what you do. Which is fine if thats how you want to spend ur time. Like you have to warn every man about the horrible single mothers that are out to get you. Please its getting old. I respect any good mother. Motherhood is a beautiful thing its not a negative thing regardless if your married or single. Being a mother is the most amazing thing I've ever done with my life period. But it does not mean I don't have any worth as a woman just because I have a child. I'm a single mom and my new bf thinks I'm amazing. Maybe he wasn't looking to get involved with a single mother but I had a lot of the traits he was looking for. Maybe I'm flattering myself a little bit but I was more expressing a point. That some men do think us single moms are worth the effort. I didn't say he's never dated a single mother I said maybe he wasn't looking for a single mom but he's not letting that fact hold him back from dating me. That was the point I was making. Please I'm always what you see is what you get. I don't pretend to be anything I'm way too stubborn and pigheaded. I'm also not a phoney, not a liar just because I'm a single mother. I'm still the same smartass, educated, independent woman that I've always been now I'm just a mother too. And I know a lot of high maintance girls but I've never been one in my life. Just don't make her empty promises and pretend to be something your not. If only all men did treat women that way there would be a lot less women that did end up as single mothers. So yes please all men don't make false/empty promises to the women you proclaim to love. Goes for women too. You wish he would...but the OP is somewhere at a bar right now going, Hannity is right, why give up my child free status for a single mom? Maybe he is a young guy and I wouldn't think of dating a guy in his twenties. Why I'm dating a 30 yr old cuz lets face it takes men a lot longer to matture. Sometimes never. He has an unhealthy amount of distain for single mothers. You have never said anything positive about single mothers well excluding ur mother I wonder how ur mother would feel reading what you post. No its not a translation that you don't have a right not to have a perference to date women but why you need to sit on ur high horse and morally condemn us all with the same brush is another story. Just ur posts are always the same... that single mother's are not worth time, are not worth wipping ur feet on. That's ur opinion we get it. Where did i tell you to shut up? I however think ur posts are repetitive and don't offer much insight just condonation on single moms. Just from reading ur previous posts I feel like you have a huge amount of distain for single mothers. Sure ur not nasty as some posters but I find ur comments just as belittling and judgmental and have very little to do with the pros & cons of dating a single mother. You told the guy not to waist his time with the single mom just because she is a single mom. You know nothing about her except for that fact. You could have told him to be cautionary which would have been good advice. How do you not know she could be the love of his life???? Some men find single moms worth loving. Not because they are doing it on their own but maybe just maybe because single moms can be AMAZING women too.

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 16 (view)

Dating a Single Mother - Advice Posted: 11/20/2009 12:44:05 AM
Pretty women come a dime a dozen, Now it totally doesn't surprise me that this comes from you hannity. You have so little regard for women as a whole. Do you even like women? Honestly I have my doubts that you even like women, or enjoy women but rather just see women as a means to an end. I'm a single mom and my new bf thinks I'm amazing. Maybe he wasn't looking to get involved with a single mother but I had a lot of the traits he was looking for. He finds me smart, witty, (yes he finds me attractive). He's 31, no kids, successful and my having a child doesn't stop him from dating me because I'm 27, educated, bright. OP I think because of ur age is more of an issue. At 26 its a big thing for a guy to be around kids especially if ur in the party stage still. As long as ur honest and have good communication then you can define the relationship. I suggest just keep it you and her don't be around the child because you might get attached and the child could too. You don't owe her anything and she doesn't owe you anything. Just don't make her empty promises and pretend to be something your not. Oh and ignore all of hannity's so-called opinion. He has an unhealthy amount of distain for single mothers. I actually doubt he's ever had anything nice to say about women.

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 290 (view)

PS. If you wanna debate these other things... Posted: 11/19/2009 9:54:43 AM
This thread feels like a group of friends sitting around the coffee shop...anyone else feel that way about this group? I agree I think this has been one of the better threads I've ever read on POF full of political discourse and the exchanging of ideas and without the typically pettiness that follows most forums and minimal name calling. Itsallinthesoul I'm an emotional talker and thinker myself and often refer to myself as a hot-head but then again I just blame it on being french canadian. torquoise_pixie lovely job pointing the factual side of the argument showing by using reason you can change how someone views the subject. Openheart928 now I did a double take after reading ur post. Now not going to try arguing socialism from the same stand point. But many of the principles I hold at heart are more inligned with promoting equality which is apparently something you hold dear as most Amerians. The reason I see it so important to support social programs is because of what they attempt to do. They try to create a level starting ground. Thats why I think education is so important because as a society we have come to view that as being important. Now as a historian I know when the Industrial Revolution started children were forced to work in appauling conditions. That children would work in poor houses where they would be treated poorly. They would work long hours. Anyway social reformers changed this. Children didn't always go to school. And I think we take that for granted. But as a society we should all value the education that our children recieve. All children should recieve a good education because in the end we as society prosper from having an educated class of citizens. Now if we don't support governmented funded education well then it starts to deteriorate and gets into a state of repair. Teaching is something I hold very dear and I love volunteering at a local elementary school its in a poor area and definately not how I remember school because I grew up in a wealthy middle class school in a small community. I am open to debating/discussing (with respect and kindness) any of these other topics -- in their own threads. If anyone here wishes to start threads on the other wandering subjects we tossed around -- socialism, nationalized healthcare, self-defense rights, All of those topics are way more interesting then my medical terminology course I'm taking right now. Is condoing atheism really all that awful? OP ur daughter has had one bad experience and the tales of fire and brimestones are scarey for any child but there are multiple of "children friendly" tales that can make learning about faiths fun. The Collection of Narnia are really good books might be a little old for ur daughter but if u read the books as an adult u really do see the "creation" story. The thing I liked about studying different societies at different times is the similarity of the creation stories. There are some great first nations tales from the west coast a lot of them use animals and trickster characters. Now when Europeans first came over to America they saw these stories as a heaten religion and kind of squashed them out but to me its more of affirmation because the creation stories have so many similarities. I don't think ur daughter is old enough to fully determine if she wants to be an atheist just because of her age and well its a pretty adult decision to make. But at the same time you don't want to force her into believing something. I say just give her options. She's going to be studying so many things evolution. I went to a Baptist Sunday school when I was young I always enjoyed it. Then when I was older I went to another church and I didn't enjoy it it really put me off organized religion. It was a friends church and I remember being made to feel ashamed by an adult and I was around the age 11. Really put me off organized religion because I didn't feel "welcomed". As an adult I've gone to various sections including a Catholic Church. Why? Just to expand on my information. Just give ur daughter options keep having open communication with her on various subjects and discussing her thoughts. One does not need religion to be a good person as long as they have a solid foundation. And having religion does not excuse someone from being a bad person. I think the most important things to teach our child is that our actions have consequences and being able to accept the consequences of those actions, the difference between right and wrong, to treat others with respect & dignity, and to teach compassion. I think even most adults often at times question faith and what it means. A persons believes change over the course of their life the best we can do as parents is try to instill a solid foundation of morals that will give our child the best means to suceed in life.

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 17 (view)

A different angle - Social Assistance Programs Posted: 11/18/2009 1:07:33 PM
Well see now if we had dental coverage for everyone, everyone would pay low premiums and then everyone could have good dental health which is important to someone's overral health. Now not everyone would use this because lets face it some people hate going to the dentist. You can't abuse the system if everyone pays into the service and if everyone gets to use it. We all pay into our health care system and when someone needs to use health care we don't view them as cheating the system. Even though some people may need to use the service more. We don't say smokers are abusing the system even though later in life treatment for their ailments will be more draining on our system then a non-smoker who may not have emphysema or lung cancer. Now is a child that needing dental care abusing the system no because a child cannot afford a $300 plus bill. Now say if ur child didn't have good parents and they thought well my child doesn't need this service and I'm not going to pay for it out of my pocket. Well then who suffers? the child. Is ur ex abusing the system yes by the sounds of it why because she sounds like she doesn't need any of the programs and they should be going to someone that really needs them. If she could have easily afforded to cover the child's dental care but chooses to take the funding that is meant for people in need she is abusing the system. But then it goes back if we had this kind of coverage for everyone because I belief dental is essential then we wouldn't be having this discussion. I'm appauled by how expensive perscriptions are. When people can't afford perscriptions because their disease isn't seen as common enough and they need their perscriptions otherwise they would die there is a problem. There are a lot of things our "Canadian Government" could be doing better at. Our health care is need. Our social services should be expanded (I'm referring to in Canada). Our education system needs to be taken care of. I understand in Canada a lot of our tax paying dollars go to the removal of snow. Saskatchewan is the birth province of the NDP Tommy Douglas. Little bit of Canadian history for everyone because yes I did take some Canadian history too. Tommy Douglas introduced universal public healthcare to Canada. Premier of Saskatchewan. He was leader of the co-operative commonwealth federation (CCF) whih consisted of socialists, farm, co-operative and labour groups. The CCF aimed to alleviate the suffering of the Great Depression through economic reform and public "co-operation". Canadians in a recent pull 2004 named him the Greatest Canadian (and yes he was a socialist). Whoo-hoo one for the socialist even out numbered Wayne Gretzky which in Canada is a big thing. He was responsible for the creation of a large number of Crown Corporations many competed with existing private sector interests. Anyway got legislation that allowed the unionization of the public service a program to offer free hospital care to all citizens. Tommy Douglas started out as a minister for the Calvary Baptist Church and during the Great Depression he set up a job and food distribution center at the church and from there he moved into politics. Now Tommy Douglas's daughter (Shirley Douglas) got in trouble because she was affiliated with Blk Panter Groups. She was actively involved in the American Civil Rights Movement, campaigned against the Vietnam War and helped establish the fundraising group "Friends of the Black Panters". Got booted back to Canada after her divorce from Donald Sutherland. Oh and she was a single mother before she married Sutherland. And she was an actress and a social activist.

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 257 (view)

Homosexual Rights and Marriage Continued..... Posted: 11/17/2009 6:38:35 PM
What so no more talk about socialism allowed. Dang it here I was plotting my socialist revolution from POF. Guess I'll have to try another way. But I don't think America sucks. I wanted to live in America however I don't know if thats the "safest" place for a socialist like me. I might pee-off too many Americans. Of course I'd be chased out of some states with people carying torch picks and stuff like that for my socialist radical views. I know I'm radically out there but its a given based on my liberal arts background. I did five yrs at University studying american history, american literature, american politics why because its extremely interesting. In Canada we're more interested in staying warm why we probably support social programs cuz no one wants to end up out in the cold in minus 40 temperature. If you could pick the time period/place you lived in I would have picked the 1960s in the US. But OP in the massive posts I sent maybe those readings I recommended got lost. The Cat Who Went to Heaven is a 1930 novel by Elizabeth Coatsworth it won the newbery medal for excellence in American Children's literature in 1931 its based on an old Buddhist folk tale. Deals with the concepts of Buddhism and the evils of material gain. Its a short novel. And one I highly recommend. Summary this japanese painters falls on hard times he's lonely. He originally thinks cats are the devils. But this cat leads him to change his perception on how he once viewed cats. He names the cat Good Fortune. The author gives the cat human characteristics. Anyway it dives into how cats were typically seen as evil spirits they would be taken onto fishing boats to keep away other evil spirits. The painter is commissioned to do a painting. And at the end the cat gets into heaven. Its a great lil story I highly recommend it and hey I'm on subject kind of for promoting diverse religious teachings through various untraditional ways.

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 169 (view)

Multiple children by multiple partners Posted: 11/17/2009 5:37:12 PM
It does not look good for a woman to have children by more than one father. Who cares what narrow minded people think? Who cares if some people have this moral compass that they judge others by. I have a daughter and my second child will be coming from a different man and you know what I couldn't care less what it looks like or what anyone's opinion is on that matter. Because as long as I'm paying my taxes being a good mother its none of ur business. Also I've always done things that have caused a stir and gone against mainstream society anyway. I like doing things the hard way its more exciting then ur boring white houses with picket fences (yawn). BORING! And I always knew I didn't want to get married and I'm sticking to that. As long as my child(ren) are happy and well provided for thats all I can ask for. I personally like diversity always have.

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 225 (view)

Condoning Atheism. Posted: 11/16/2009 8:05:15 PM
How does Christianity and Capitalism work the two are opposed. Greed has corrupted many organized religion groups that use the so-called word of God to wage wars which has always been the case. Cuz you've just been schooled by a Canadian girl I thought that was pretty clever too I'm glad u agree. Adorable is how people describe my daughter who is not yet two. Sometimes I wish Canada was an island on its own.... Yes guns are the answer even though ur more likely to be shot with ur own gun. In cases where there is a gun in the home its more likely to end badly if their are domestic abuse problems. And yes keep letting ur kids gun down other kids in schools. Its funny how the right for militia to bare arms has equated to everyone owning a gun. Makes real sense. If u don't give it to me I'll just shoot u down. Yeah the policy of building prisons is working so much better then putting the money into schools. Great choice. OP my fav childhood book when I was 7 was "the cat that went to heaven" its a beautiful book based on a lot of Budha thoughts mixed in with Christian values. I also recommend the Chronicles of Narnia CS Lewis does a beautiful job taking the creation story and modernizing it for children. Also takes place during the 2nd world war the novels were an escape fro the reality. But they teach the fundamentals of what it means to be a good person. I'm so against organized religion because u have these narrow minded people that spouse christian values but know nothing of charity or compassion. Rather they just take and take consumed by their greed and figure because they've asked God into their hearts and to be forgiven for their sins that they are justified by living a corrupt life. Talk about hypercrasy. I'm personally for same sex marriages. I support it but in Canada they are entitled to have a legal marriage that would give them the same rights as a couple. I believe in taking the church out of state affairs cuz only bad things happen when u mix the two. Case in example President George Bush Jr. I also don't believe in the institute of marriage its all been commericialized anyway. And the part I said about people deserving to have homes/roofs over their heads I also said they were the working people. I said people want to work but they should be able to work and provide the basic essentials to life. You know what when ur American streets breakout in riots and everyone with a gun and utter chaos well okay. You do not live in isolation from the rest of American citizens you need to interact. And people need government to promote social order. The Canadian Constitution includes good government, social order and decency. Novel ideas apparently. And also how there are no manufacturing jobs left everyone will just be working at macdonalds or walmart hurray lucky us. Why in European nations walmart and macdonalds flop because they are the cheapest form of capitalism. With no dignity and no quality just cheap. Cheap like capitalism where everyone has a price and people are exposable. You know what feudal lords had more sense. They realized that if they didn't keep poor peasants happy that they would eventually revolt and they would end up with their heads on pegs. Treating other human beings with compassion you get compassion back. If it wasn't for socialist you wouldn't have old age pension/social security. Now is that a bad thing too? I guess we should just the poor, illiterate, disabled and old starve in the streets. Well because survival of the fittest right. This whole capitalism thing it hasn't been working out too well for mankind. Its created wars, slavery, enviromental disasters but yeah lets keep abusing the world and each other.

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 214 (view)

a lesson in American history... and clarifying socialism Posted: 11/16/2009 11:47:23 AM
guess after seeing what communism did -- Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, etc. etc. -- one does tend to think it never works out very well. Communism leads to collapse of society and murdering of the populace in large numbers. Wow high school in the states is really in a state of ruin isn't it. I learned in history class in school that Hilter was a fascist. He was right wing. He was not a socialist he was not a communist. He was a capitalist dictator. He hated Stalin that was why he invaded Russia. During the winter the same mistake Napolean made. Giving the British a cance to breathe from air raids and Hitlers fatal mistake. Stalin also did not have the support of the Socialist party in the Soviet Union its why he killed off his competition. At the onset of WWII most americans didn't have a problem with Hitler. FDR realized how horrible Hitler was before the rest of America caught on because at the time Americans were enjoying a period of isolation and it took Pearl Harbor to happen before the Americans would get involved with WWII. Not one of those people you mentioned was a socialist so what was ur point???? But I will give you two examples of a socialists I'll even use American examples. Franklin D. Roosevelt the only American President that had more then 2 terms and that died in office and not by assination. FDR was extremely wealthy he came from an affluent family yet he still cared about the poor. He hated seeing Americans starving and left with nothing due to the Great Depression. His idea was to put people back to work to give them dignity. He had roads constructed. He had government buildings built. He gave funding for the arts. He stimulated the economy. He wanted to give relief to the unemployed and badly hurt farmers, reform to business and financial practices and promoting recovery of the economy. He is the reason u guys have social security. The fair labor standards act of 1938 set maximum hours and min wages for most categories of workers. Roosevelt is rated as one of the greatest US Presidents and yes he was a socialist. He was labelled a class traitor but that didn't stop him from trying to help the poor. Quote from Roosevelt: Throughout the nation men and women, forgotten in the political philosophy of the Government, look to us here for guidance and for more equitable opportunity to share in the distribution of national wealth... I pledge you, I pledge myself to a new deal for the American people... This is more than a political campaign. It is a call to arms Roosevelt organized labor, ethnic minorities, urbanites. Roosevelt caused the Great Depression on bankers and financiers that for the quest for profit and self-interest basis of capitalism that lead to such hardships for the majority of the American people: another quote: Primarily this is because rulers of the exchange of mankind's goods have failed through their own stubbornness and their own incompetence, have admitted their failure, and have abdicated. Practices of the unscrupulous money changers stand indicted in the court of public opinion, rejected by the hearts and minds of men. True they have tried, but their efforts have been cast in the pattern of an outworn tradition. Faced by failure of credit they have proposed only the lending of more money. Stripped of the lure of profit by which to induce our people to follow their false leadership, they have resorted to exhortations, pleading tearfully for restored confidence....The money changers have fled from their high seats in the temple of our civilization. We may now restore that temple to the ancient truths. The measure of the restoration lies in the extent to which we apply social values more noble than mere monetary profit Relief was urgent. FDR opened food banks. He stopped bank foreclosures. Now another American President that was a socialist Lyndon B. Johnson I know not a popular choice because of the bad rap he got for Vietnam but that was Kennedy's war he inherited. LBJ was responsible for the Great society this legislation included civil rights. Even in the North African Americans were kept poor they were denied mortgages and were only allowed to live in places like Harlem. Why during properous times African-Americans have not seen upward mobility that other ethnic groups have. Part of this new "Great Society" was medicare, medicaid, environmental protection, aid to education (as he was a teacher), and an attempt to help the poor with his "war on Poverty". LBJ saw a need to expand the government role in social welfare programs for education to healthcare a continuation of FDR New Deal. FDR's four freedoms from the New Deal: 1. Freedom of speech & expression 2. freedom of religion 3. freedom from want 4. freedom from fear This is something that FDR thought all human beings were entitled to. Modern Amerian liberalism is a form of social liberalism that arose from progressive ideals such as Thomas Pain'e asset-based egalitarianism, Theodore Roosevelt's New Nationalism, Woodrow Wilson's New Freedom and FDR's New Deal. Modern american liberalism is a combination of socaial liberalism, social progressivisim and support for a welfare state and mixed economy. Quote from John F. Kennedy giving two different definitions of liberalism: What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label 'Liberal'? If by 'Liberal' they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer’s dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of 'Liberal'. But if by a 'Liberal' they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people — their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties — someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a 'Liberal', then I’m proud to say I’m a 'Liberal' IT IS A DAMN SHAME that these socialist movements created by American politicans have been washed away by a religious conservative backlash. It is a shame that Americans do not embrace the values of the collective good until something like the Great Depression comes along. It is a shame that out of the richest industrial based country the US has the most vices. The highest level of crime per capita and poverty out of ANY industrial based country. It is a shame that you don't want to address the problems that plague American society but rather look for scapegoats such as minorities and single mothers then blame the greedy capitalist that have outsourced all ur manufacturing jobs. It is a shame that no one cares about farming practices, that few seem to care about the environment or about the future legacy you are creating leaving for ur children. Its a shame that a Canadian girl has to school you Americans on ur own history because ur school systems are doing an inadequate job if they are not explaining the difference between socialism and communism. Have you read the communist manifesto? I have 3 times and no where does it call for cruel bloody dictatorships. Democracy has not come cheap either. The US bloodiest war was ur own Civil War between the North and the South. If you address the problems of poverty, if you create jobs a lot of these other problems will start to fix themselves. That is why you need to have universal health care. So that you have healthy happy workers. Its why you need to have a strong education system to teach your youth and create individuals that will strive. Its why you create a minimal standard of living. There should be no need for families to have to live in their cars. If someone is working they should be entitled to a roof over their head. People want to work so give them the jobs, give them their dignity. Which is what FDR sought to do for Americans that had so little during the Great Depression. Because when an economic downturn hits it knows no class boundaries everyone feels the pinch. Everyone hurts. And its a SHAME that it takes this to make other people care about those that are less fortunate then themselves. So yes I say proudly I am a socialist. I'm not a communist I'm a socialist there is a difference do the research. Expand ur minds a lil bit. Cuz you've just been schooled by a Canadian girl who probably has done more research on American history then most Americans. Be that shinning example of the city on the hill that the rest of the world would look for guidance. I'm still waiting for a change for Americans to live up to their full potential. But greed is a hard vice to overcome one that humanity seems to always struggle with. MLK was a pacifist. To take part in a MLK (Martin Luther King Jr.) demonstration you had to sign a pledge not to use violence even when whites would spit on dump food on African Americans who were brave enough to demand equal opportunities and an end to segregation. MLK said we are fighting the institution not the individual that has blinded the individual and created hate for his fellow brother. In the end he was becoming a socialist and realized that if African Americans were to have a fair footing that yes they would need affirmative action because after being brought to America in Chains the chains of inequality still remained after the end of slavery. As a socialist I believe in progress, in advancement of human nature to me that means bettering the world. Lessoning are carbon imprint. I'm even an idealist/pacifist and hope some day that people will turn away from violence.

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 155 (view)

Multiple children by multiple partners Posted: 11/15/2009 12:51:37 PM
matariki_sweet why are u letting this woman knock on ur door? Why are you not reporting this woman to social services? If you know she is doing drugs around her child then social services should be called and the children should be removed from her home. U are not taking the appropriate steps. You are just whinning about her. Yes this woman has serious problems. But if I saw this you could be damn sure I'd be on the phone calling family services and reporting her butt. She is being a bad mother and I don't think she's entitled to be a bad mother. She should be forced to get her act together or lose her kids. Inviting a man with drug addictions into her home is a problem. If she is doing drugs while being pregnant well there is a serious problem. The court should be able to arrest her and throw her butt in jail for the term of her pregnancy so that she cannot harm her unborn child. This is the worst case of mother and even if her children had the same father she is still being a neglectful mother. It doesn't matter that they are multiple partners it matters that she is endangering her children.

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 444 (view)

Why don't men date single mothers...the answer Posted: 11/15/2009 12:43:04 PM
Sorry I was referring to the men that come on here and diss single moms as inferior women, as damaged goods, and blah blah blah. I'm saying I doubt those men have much respect for any woman. Because if you are a man and woman you don't go around bad mouthing the opposite sex with negative stereotypes. Men & women don't seem to show the common curtousy to others but rather judge them on mere merits. I have no problem with a man having a preference to not dating a woman with a child. I have a preference for not dating a smoker. But I do not need to say I don't date a smoker cuz they stink, because I see them as having a flaw, that smoking is a diguisting habit. And so on so on. I respect their wishes as long as they don't smoke around me. Hey I was hard to date before I ever had my child. I am extremely headstrong, opinionated, I have a low tolerance for BS from a man and will put up with very little (majority of the time). Having my daughter wasn't a mistake. I wanted a child, I had a child. Its what I wanted so I did it. I could have just as easily gone to a sperm bank. But I see a lot of lack of respect for people. People are just very judgmental and maybe its cuz its the internet everyone feels entitled to be rude. Because what is a person going to do. One is just sitting on their computer. Seriously is someone going to come up to me in person and say oh you terrible woman how dare u be a single mother... no they're not going to do it. Men start just as many threads about why won't someone date me and it could be just their personality because they gripe about their exs. Works both ways. But u know I did notice that in ask the girl section there are a lot of single women ridiculing single dads too. They just don't come to the single parent forums so it does cut both ways. I don't think being a parent is a negative thing. I think it is the most rewarding thing a person can ever do. I was being sarcastic with my post. I was doing the extreme. Because my ex always told me he would never date a single mom because of the same reasons I've heard on these post because they are damaged goods, they have baggage. Anyway he has no respect for women in general. And he's now dating a single mom with 3 kids. I just think some people just like to be bullies and say things for the "shock" factor because they know it will get a reaction.

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 441 (view)

Why don't men date single mothers...the answer Posted: 11/15/2009 11:21:42 AM
Men have been talking about these behind your backs for centuries Guess what, as I said earlier. It's good that we have these forums, and everyone gets to voice their opinions. Because forums or no forums, men think what they think about "single mothers" regardless..... What some of these men think is what men think about women regardless if she is a single mother. It shows a lack of respect that men have for women. Why does being a mother make you less of a woman? I assume the same men that make fun of single mothers are the ones that also snicker about women who are in positions of authority. Some men have always been disrespectful towards women whether or not they were single mothers. They told women that they were not human beings. They told women they were property. It just goes to show that some mens attitudes haven't changed very much towards women. Because we all know women are not as smart as men, that women are inferior, are way more emotional then men and lets just face it us women well we're the weaker sex. And well we have no self-worth unless we have a man in our life. (SARCASIM) Actually I read these threads and I'm just amazed by the cruelty of some people. It shows no reflection upon myself because I'm not any of the negative stereotypes that people seem to try to label me. My status as a single mother doesn't bother me because my self-worth as a human being has never been determined by whether or not I've had a man in my life.

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 192 (view)

Condoning Atheism. Posted: 11/15/2009 2:08:40 AM
Not necessary to visit every society on the planet, but I do know that every society on the planet since antiquity has been putting two people together, a man and a woman, with or without ceremony – for the purpose of having children to further their own society and human species; from Eve and Isis to now. From Mesopatomaia to the US. From Africa, India, South & Central Amer to Asia, to North and South Pole to the US. Even Rome, with it’s history and preference for homosexuality, relied on male-female relationships and intercourse to produce children. Many a married men engaged in homosexuality, but I’ve never heard or read of them allowing for marriage between same gender, just between men and women. In Alaska before the influence of Europeans women would sometimes marry other women. They would be families. They did this mostly because there would be a shortage of men. But the one women would take on the roles of a man. They would have "adoptive children" and live as a family unit. And they were considered married. And the one woman would be considered the "man" of the home. Once the European influence became more dominant this practice was put out. It was then seen as imoral. Many first nation communities the women had important roles in their communities and often more influence then men. what the hell does black/white screwing around have to do with incest, animal sex and pedophilia? Are you trying to compare these? That’s not funny, its derisive and offensive.’ Nappykat the point CS was trying to make about interracial dating is it once was a crime too. If a blk man had relations with a white woman it was punishable by death. If a white woman engaged in intercourse with a blk man she could claim rape and you can bet ur ass that man would be lynched. But slave owners had free reign on blk women. They weren't punish for forcing themselves on their slaves. Those with the power get to make the laws and the laws are flexible to their wants and desires. In India there are men that castrate themselves. They become "women" in a sense. They are prostitutes. But they play a role in Indian society. They are seen as keeping women pure for marriage. In ancient rome it was considered more influential to take a male lover in the army then to take a woman lover because it was seen as more prestigious. Taking a female lover was frowned upon. Peoples ideas over religion and sexuality are constantly changing evolving. Used to be a crime to be a homosexual. Think some acts are still considered illegal in some parts of the States. There are some white men in the states that think its okay to take multiple wives because their bible says so. Heck in BC we have bountiful BC our own polygomous (sp) community. They are marrying young girls as 15 yr old. But yet to arrest them would be a constitutional infringement because they have the right to their religious freedom in the US.

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 186 (view)

Condoning Atheism. Posted: 11/14/2009 10:10:21 PM
Its amazing how someone that can spouse Christian values can not care about protecting humanity. As a Christian you would not want to protect life. And that is the main purpose of the UN. Because Humanity has no borders. All life is precious and should be protected. "love thy neighbor" is only if that neighbor is a an American? I am a socialist. Because being a socialist is more in-line to Christian values. Being a socialist means u care about the sufferings of others. That you care about the poor. That you strive to make the world a better place. That you want to feed, and shelter the hungry. So yes I'm a bleeding heart socialist. Look at Jesus Christ he was a carpenter he had no worldly possessions but only desire to heal the suffering of others. Wouldn't that kind of make him a socialist???? The UN made it illegal to torture POW (prisoners of war). The UN imposes sanctions. The UN tries to minimize the threat of nuclear war. The UN needs support so that we can stop genoicides. Oh and don't worry the US has a "veto vote" in the UN. I personally don't think there should be veto votes but was a must for the US because they felt that the UN would threaten their sovereignty. However I personally don't see how it does threaten ur sovereignty unless you mean by pusnishing ur presidents who commit war crimes? We are a global community. Our actions affect others. Just because you weren't a slave owner, didn't kill any natives doesn't mean ur hands are clean. You just can't ignore the past and say its not my fault. I'm sorry it doesn't work like that. We carry the burdens of our sins as human beings and should strive to make the world a better place. As a parent what kind of world do you want to leave for your child? There is no reason with all our modern technology that children starve. That children are sold into prositution. We might all like to think that slavery has ended it hasn't. Women and children are still forced into the slavery of prostitution. But yes lets be grateful that we were born in North America. Lets turn a blind eye to the suffering of others. And lucky us who were born white and don't have to face discrimination on a daily bases. History lesson about marriage. Marriage was because the church took away womens rights. Women were seen as property (mere possessions to be used as trading). The illusions we have about marriage are romanticized. Marriage was to secure an inheritance, make a trade. Marriage seldom had anything to do with "love". Karl Marx called marriage the legalization of Prostitution. If a 90 yr old man can marry a 20 yr old something****ail waitress I can guarantee you its not for love. You talk about the defile of marriage has nothing to do with same sex couples look at all the US reality TV shows. "who wants to marry a millionare" "the bachelor" all these seedy shows have cheapened and made a mockery out of the so-called institution of marriage. Pull a Britney Spears get married in Vegas and then get it annuled the next day. Now me I personally don't get why anyone would want to get married. I have never had any desire for marriage because to me it equals ownership. I never want to get married and thats my choice. One i'm sticking to. On topic I want my daughter to be exposed to many religions. I want her to study religion and be critical. To me its more important to be a good person and how you treat others then following the strict teachings of organized religion which are often corrupt. In the history how many wars have been fought in the name of God. And often the same God.

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 183 (view)

Condoning Atheism. Posted: 11/14/2009 5:42:25 PM
The United Nations has no authority over the United States Constitution. Sorry but disrespecting the UN is crazy. Two of the most influential people in the creation of the UN was Franklin Roosevelt (an american president) and his wife Eleanor. Eleanor founded the UN Association of the United States, she was a delegate to the UN General Assembly from 1945 and 1952. Eleanor chaired the committee that drafted and approved the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Did you not have a relative that fought in the first world war, second world war? The UN is an attempt to keep peace and protect the right of "life" to every human being. That should always thrump borders. And trys to keep genoicide from happening and nuking but hey we don't need protection from these things right? The UN is to ensure the dignity of life. That members of the human family have the basic foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world. From the declaration of human rights: Article 1 All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood. Article 2 Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty. Article 3 Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person. Article 4 No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms. Article 5 No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. Is the UN flawed yes but the ideas support humanity at its best. Seriously. Look at the American Constitution. Supporting liberty, and freedom. If you do not respect the UN you do not respect life, dignity and peace. Everyone should ALWAYS support what the UN stands for regardless of its limitations, regardless of its shortcommings. The UN was created so that humans would never have to experience world war again it was a noble project.

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 42 (view)

Well you chose them Posted: 11/13/2009 8:24:52 PM
Yes some people might have a higher susceptibility for becoming a drunk I said I agree that certain people may have tendencies, and become addicted to certain things at a higher percentage then other people but we still have free will. If you know that alcoholism runs in ur family maybe never take that first drink. If you see urself drinking too much change ur behavior. Saying its in my DNA is an excuse not to take accountability for ones actions. A lot of people choose not to be around those kinds of environments. Some behaviors are learned and I lean more towards the nurture side of the argument. I don't like telling children that they have limitations. Real way to inspire a child. Tell them your parents is a loser so your going to be a loser. "your just like your father a lazy no good bum"... they come to start to believe it. Think maybe ur ex's mother would rag on him about being a lil jerk like his dad and the next thing you know he has learned the behavior. It's just something to think about. It's not only not exposing the child to negative environments but also not telling them about their short commings talking derrogatory about our exs. The mind has to be nutured and developed. All children have the capacity for learning and shouldn't be giving children labels such as "losers".

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 36 (view)

Well you chose them Posted: 11/13/2009 5:41:44 PM
....look at your kid because he's got half that DNA just because he ain't around doesn't mean his crappy genes weren't passed on. duh! STATEMENTS LIKE THIS REALLY PISS ME OFF! Seriously life choices is not part of ur flipping DNA. Yes the reason someone is an acholic, pothead is because of their DNA. Give me a flipping break. Having these vices is not ur DNA it has to do with personal choices that one makes. Talk about not taking accountability for your decisions. Yes some people might have a higher susceptibility for becoming a drunk because their parents started drinking with them when they were 14 and getting high with them. But it is still a choice. Just because I had a child with a guy that likes his beer and pot too much doesn't mean my daughter is going to be a falling down drunk. With this logic I should have been a falling down drunk and so should my parents but news flash they weren't. My dad is a non-smoker, non-drinker and he is the only one out of his 5 siblings that hasn't been a drunk. And you know what my parents kept that environment away from me and taught me better. And I will teach my daughter the same it doesn't matter that her father chooses to do those things. He's not around. When I look at my daughter I see a beautiful child. That is so bright, smart and happy. Some day she will be an adult and hopefully make smart decisions. My daughter is not a mistake and not a loser. No child is a flipping loser. We as parents just sometimes screw them up! LIFECHOICES DO NOT EQUAL DNA. Seriously! I don't regrett having my child. And I'm so sick of hearing well you chose him. So what I got a beautiful child out of the mix nothing else matters.

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 35 (view)

Well you chose them Posted: 11/13/2009 5:39:04 PM
....look at your kid because he's got half that DNA just because he ain't around doesn't mean his crappy genes weren't passed on. duh! STATEMENTS LIKE THIS REALLY PISS ME OFF! Seriously life choices is not part of ur flipping DNA. Yes the reason someone is an acholic, pothead is because of their DNA. Give me a flipping break. Having these vices is not ur DNA it has to do with personal choices that one makes. Talk about not taking accountability for your decisions. Yes some people might have a higher susceptibility for becoming a drunk because their parents started drinking with them when they were 14 and getting high with them. But it is still a choice. Just because I had a child with a guy that likes his beer and pot too much doesn't mean my daughter is going to be a falling down drunk. With this logic I should have been a falling down drunk and so should my parents but news flash they weren't. My dad is a non-smoker, non-drinker and he is the only one out of his 5 siblings that hasn't been a drunk. And you know what my parents kept that environment away from me and taught me better. And I will teach my daughter the same it doesn't matter that her father chooses to do those things. He's not around. When I look at my daughter I see a beautiful child. That is so bright, smart and happy. Some day she will be an adult and hopefully make smart decisions. My daughter is not a mistake and not a loser. No child is a flipping loser. We as parents just sometimes screw them up! LIFECHOICES DO NOT EQUAL DNA. Seriously! I don't regrett having my child. And I'm so sick of hearing well you chose him. So what I got a beautiful child out of the mix nothing else matters.

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 4 (view)

A gift idea for a woman who gives a birth to your child... Posted: 11/11/2009 4:01:07 PM
My ex took me to a jewerly store and bought me a really nice heart shaped necklace. I was a week overdue but it was a really nice gesture. He also let me pick it out. It was for the birth of our daughter. Really was a nice gesture from him. I don't wear it anymore rather I'm saving it for a gift for my daughter. And I plan on telling my daughter that her dad bought it for her birth. You could buy ur SO a heart shaped locket if she's into the whole jewerly thing. The very best thing my ex bought after our daughter was he went to the mall and bought two really cute lil newborn outfits. They were too small for our 8 pound baby but just the fact that he was so excited about our new baby girl. The best thing you could do after ur SO gives birth is just be supportive she is going to be really tired. So the gift of carrying & helping costs nothing and means the world.

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 128 (view)

Multiple children by multiple partners Posted: 11/11/2009 12:55:12 PM
I apologize it was from another thread where u posted about a "friend" having that happen. But what does it matter that ur babies come from the same guy? He still is a deadbeat. You have posted how he took all ur money and also just now that u ended up living in a shelter. And how he has been dodging paying his cs. And how do u know those are his only 2 children by the sounds of it he gets around quiet a bit. Its a musicians lifestyle. Come on part of the draw about musicians is well they are kind of sexy. I used to have a bf a singer and when we went to his gigs I tell u every woman in that bar wanted him. Say if you had been 16 when you had the first two and things fell apart. Lets say you met another guy at 24 and fell in love and he wanted a baby? Would you have another child? Seriously you can't answer these questions because you don't know what you would have done if your circumstances had been different. Now with me I was in university straight after high school. I did 5 yrs at University. So I didn't have a baby in my late teens, early twenties. I did get pregnant at 25. The latest I'm willing to have another child is 32. But I'm not rushing into it. Maybe I'll go to a sperm bank who cares what I do. Its my life and I'm entitled to live it the way I want. Now because I'm responsible I know I won't have more children then I can afford because I want to be able to provide a certain quality of life for my child(ren). Lets face it women don't get smart about men until they are in their mid-twenties if ever. I'm not offended I just don't see why you need to pick on other single moms. Can u imagine what kind of crappy lives these women must've had to feel that they can only fill the empty void in their life by having multiple children? That the only way they feel important is to have more children? That they feel no man will want them so they just have sex with who is willing? They obviously don't care about their health otherwise they wouldn't be having unprotected sex with random men. How much do you have to hate urself to do that? I just don't believe in throwing dirt in someones face when they are already down. This was just a bad post.You just added another post for single moms to be bashed on. And who cares if most of the women posting doesn't fit into these categories. The reason u are getting such strong reactions is cuz well I for one thought my children were going to be coming from the same man. I wasn't planing on having multiple baby daddies. But what I only get one child? while my ex is free to go and have more while not being responsible for the one he has. A woman can only be pregnant by one man at a time but yet a man can have 2/3 different women pregnant at the same time. At any given time a woman can feel insecure in her life. She can be told she's not pretty enough, she's not smart enough, she's not good for anything. I don't mind my tax dollars going to help others. I always donate $2 everytime I go grocery shopping. There are much worse ways to spend tax dollars. There are always those that are less privileged and I don't believe children should suffer. Most of these girls that have these multiple partners are girls themselves and have not fully weighed the consequences of their decisions. And I'm sure a few of them are defeated and been kicked down by life. I'm not going to point my finger at them and say "you bad mother". I have no right to judge her even if i was married and only had one baby daddy. Whenever I was 19 and saw a girl younger then me with a child I felt sorry for her. I still feel sorry for young girls who are forced into motherhood before they are really prepared for all that comes along. These young girls fell through the cracks. And I think the single moms you are generalizing about are younger mothers. I only know one girl with multiple baby daddies. She has 3 girls all from different fathers. All within 5 yrs I think. Anyway who am i to judge her? Was she irresponsible? Yes. Did she get funding and go back to school yes. Who cares if a single mother needs to be on welfare and use funding to go back to school if it makes her life better and that of her childs so be it. I'm paying for upgrading my education on my own. I have a friend that has her BA and she's on welfare right now and she doesn't have a child.The economy stinks right now maybe why so many people are cranky and feel the need to lash out at others. Why do you care what other people think about you? You know ur not one of those "single mothers" that abuses welfare system which is a good thing. But i honestly don't think single mothers are getting rich living off welfare. I can openly admit that I'm going to have more than 1 baby daddy and I don't care what anyone thinks of me because I'm a wonderful mother and I want more children and I can afford more children.

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 105 (view)

Multiple children by multiple partners Posted: 11/10/2009 6:57:53 PM
Oh pleasseeee kids with the same parents don't always end up looking the same. My cousin her two lil boys her eldest looks like his grandpa, and her youngest looks like his dad. They look nothing alike. I think the reason this forum pisses off people is because well it kind of already has been done by hannity remember he had a silly post "why are women open to having more children by more then one man." OP u might have meant women that have 5-6 different baby daddies but multiple children by multiple partners implies any woman that has a child with more then one man. I thought all my children would have the same father. This was a very sensitive issue for me. But there is no way I'm going to have another child with my loser ex I learned that lesson the hard way the first time. Don't need to repeat that mistake. But I still want more children. Some married people with more then one child can be irresponsible. My cousin is pregnant with her 3rd her eldest is 3. Her and her husband just filed bankruptcy. Does anyone critizie her? No and why because she is married. It doesn't make her responsible. She's having children that she can't afford. She's a high school drop out. She has no way to support her children if her husband ever abandons her. Maybe some women just really love being mothers. I loved being pregnant best time of my life. Do I want another child yes. If i won the lottery I wouldn't give a crap what anyone thought. I'd go to a sperm bank have my babies because I would be able to provide the quality of life I want for my children. It really depends on the quality of life u want to have for ur children. I know I can't afford more then 2 on my own though. When u do it on ur own the first time around I think it gets easier. Who knows why these women have multiple babies with multiple partners I would think they suffer from low self-esteem? I don't know. But u talk about them giving single moms a bad reputation how so? In reality no one comes up to me and says what a horrible single mother i am. Never had anyone tell me that in person. On here I get bashed. But who cares? I don't. I did initially. I don't anymore. I'm happy. I don't need to bring others down to make myself feel better. I see that a lot of single mothers do attack other single moms to demonstrate that they are not these negative stereotypes. But at what costs? OP you had 2 children with a man that lost 2 children to social services. Someone might judge you by that. I wouldn't have had a child with a man that abandoned his previous children thinking this time it will be different. I still ended up having a child with a man that abandoned his responsibilities. And bashing another single mom's lifestyle isn't going to make me better then any other poster who constantly bashes single moms as inferior women.

Joined: 11/7/2009

Msg: 31 (view)

Plan B for a teenager Posted: 11/10/2009 6:41:07 PM
This thread makes me realize two things. The first thing how easy my parents had it with me. Man they had it good. I wasn't having sex at 15 I wasn't even thinking about sex! The only boy friends I ever hung out are devout christians and would never have had sex before marriage. Second thing can I home school my daughter??? Seriously when did having sex at 15 become acceptable? At 15 my parents always knew where I was. Mostly babysitting for the neighbors 3 kids. People shouldn't be allowed ot have sex until they are in their 20s. I remember getting the sex talk at 15 and taking sex ed but no way would I have had sex at 15. I think at 15 I still thought I was going to wait till I got married. Sex was the last thing on my mind. I wanted to go to university, i was focused on school, played sports, had music lessons. And babysat the 3 most bratty kids ever and swore up and down I'd never have a kid. Seriously the best form of bc for a 15 yr old get her baby sitting changing diapers. I remember getting hit and being yelled at "your not my parent, I don't have to listen to you". If I had even tried to lie to my parents they would have known and busted me. They would always know who my friends parents were. I guess the benefit of growing up in a small town. I'm going to stress to my daughter how I hope that she waits till she's older and out of her teens (i know wishful thinking). But I also want to have open communication so that if she needs birth control she will ask for it. If my 15 yr old did have unprotected sex and told me right away I'd be taking her to get the morning after pill. And if she was taking the pill I'd be making sure she took them like clock work. Maybe somebody should market a chasity belt for parents. I'd buy that. Plus I'd scold her for having unprotected sex. Condoms are a must and if someone's too embarresed to buy condoms then they are not matture enough for sex.

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