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 Author Thread: The path to terror in Canada
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 17 (view)
 
The path to terror in Canada
Posted: 9/4/2006 11:23:25 AM

The Canadians in Aghanastan are there as a Peace Keeping Force, and cannot fire unless fired upon.


While I agree that Canadian forces aren't an occupying force in the same sense that the US is in Iraq, they are not there as peace keepers. The original purpose of the mission was peace keeping, but then the Taliban made a comeback and it turned into a war against them.

Take a look at this article that describes a major offensive operation that Canadians took part in just this weekend: http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/09/02/afghanistan.html

It wasn't the first offensive operation against the Taliban, and it probably won't be the last. Clearly this is not a peace keeping mission, and they definitely fire without being fired upon.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 8 (view)
 
The path to terror in Canada
Posted: 9/3/2006 9:36:33 PM
Unfortunately Canada hasn't stayed out of the big mess in the middle east. It shouldn't be surprising to anyone that terrorists want to attack within Canada, especially those associated with Afghanistan. Canadians are currently in Afghanistan fighting against Islamic extremists, we killed hundreds of them this weekend alone. If we're over there killing them by the hundreds, why should we be at all surprised if a few of them show up over here trying to kill us?

So what's the solution? Simple. Stay out of their business, and they'll stay out of ours.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 37 (view)
 
Gas prices dropping.....why?
Posted: 9/2/2006 10:07:55 AM

Ah but wait a minute there ^ shwa
Weren't the oil prices going down while Ernesto was still considered a threat? I remember thinking it strange at the time.


Ernesto never posed a threat to the gulf of Mexico, which is the area that matters in terms of oil production.

On another note, I never claimed this was the only reason. The end of summer driving season that was mentioned is also a legitimate reason, and there are surely others. Oil markets are just like any other financial market in that people speculate. If they expect bad things to happen to the supply then the price typically goes up by an exagerated amount, and if the bad things don't happen it goes back down, often by an exagerated amount again.

Overall though, gas prices will be generally going up at a pretty fast rate for years to come. Demand is still increasing around the world, and supply is still decreasing. Basic economics tells you what's gonna happen. So really, everybody should just quit complaining adapt to it.

Oh, and about oil companies making huge profits... buy stock in them, they're gold mines right now.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 18 (view)
 
Sen. Burns says terrorists drive taxis by day
Posted: 9/2/2006 9:53:51 AM
It's becoming pretty clear that the US government doesn't want foreigners in their country any more, but they should watch out because eventually the foreigners are gonna listen and stop coming. And it would do some pretty serious damage to their economy if it happens.

And a side note about brain drain. The article that was posted earlier doesn't have a date, but based on the dates mentioned it was written around 2000-2001. This makes perfect sense because the situation was rather different back then. I'm a good candidate for brain drain and so are most of the people I work with, and I remember back around 2000 in university when virtually everyone in my program (computer science) was seriously considering relocating to the states. But since then it's gone steadily in the other direction, and at this point I'd say only about 25% of the people I work with would consider taking a job in the US. I think the main problem is that the candidates for brain drain are, by definition, smart people. They see what's going on in the US, in terms of bad foreign policy, bad economic policy, erosion of civil liberties, and they don't want to be a part of that. A few will still be lured by the money, but that number is falling.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 6 (view)
 
Gas prices dropping.....why?
Posted: 8/31/2006 11:29:04 AM
One reason is the lack of hurricanes. People were afraid of another year like last year when oil rigs and oil refineries all around the gulf of Mexico were shut down, so oil prices went up. Now it doesn't look like that's going to happen so they're going back down.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 147 (view)
 
Hezbollah not terrorists
Posted: 8/28/2006 11:26:13 AM
goldensemble:

Iran's president has frequently called for the elimination of the 'Zionist regime', not Israel. Western media sources typically declare that 'Zionist regime' is Iran's term for Israel, but this is not true, it's Iran's term for Israel's government.

To call for the elimination of a country's government is very different from calling for the elimination of a country. Consider the U.S. call for the elimination of Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq. This has never been interpreted as wanting to wipe Iraq off the map, only that the U.S. wanted to remove Saddam Hussein's regime from power and replace it with another one, and that's exactly what they tried to do. Similarly, many people, American's included, have called for the end of the Bush administration, without ever intending that America should be eliminated.

That wikipedia article you posted has some excellent examples to illustrate my point:


Our dear Imam (referring to Ayatollah Khomeini) said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map


Note that 'occupying regime' clearly refers to a government, not a country, hence the use of the word 'regime'.


The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] the page of time


Once again, 'regime' clearly refers to a government.


BLITZER: But should there be a state of Israel?

SOLTANIEH: I think I've already answered to you. If Israel is a synonym and will give the indication of Zionism mentality, no.

But if you are going to conclude that we have said the people there have to be removed or they have to be massacred or so, this is fabricated, unfortunate selective approach to what the mentality and policy of Islamic Republic of Iran is. I have to correct, and I did so.


Here, Iran's ambassador explains exactly what I'm talking about. They want Zionism eliminated, but they otherwise have no objection to Jewish people living in Israel.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 137 (view)
 
Hezbollah not terrorists
Posted: 8/27/2006 9:55:09 AM

The article suggest that Quebec and parts east have long thought of Israel as the devil incarnate.


So what you're saying is, Quebec isn't part of Canada and therefore their opinions are irrelevant in a study about Canadians. Okay, got it.


so I will inform you that Quebec in large part, although being typically anti-everything - is definitely anti-jew.


Quebec actually has the second largest Jewish population in Canada, and the second largest percentage of Jewish residents (source: http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo30a.htm), and yet they still came out strongly against Israel.


The article also suggests that although Israel's response was over-the-top, that the hezbollah started the rif by entering Israel to begin with.


The article also shows that they asked an extremely loaded question ("The fighting in the Middle East started after Hezbollah's sudden attack on Israeli soil, killing eight and capturing two. Given this information, which of the following statements comes closest to your view?"), and in spite of this the most popular response was that Israel's attacks were not justified.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 12 (view)
 
Iran Launches New Nuclear Project
Posted: 8/27/2006 12:23:34 AM

Does any-one in here think that maybe Iran is not really a threat and we are being fed that to support Isreali / American agression?


Iran is definitely not a threat to the U.S. North Korea's longest range missiles can just barely reach parts of the U.S. Iran is farther away, and has less sophisticated technology.


Do they want nukes as a deterent?


Iraq, Iran, and North Korea are declared an axis of evil. Iraq is attacked. Iran and North Korea re-start their nuclear programs. Occam's razor.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 109 (view)
 
Is there Proof for evolution being true?
Posted: 8/26/2006 11:46:39 PM
Just in case anyone reading this thread is on the fence about this subject and might be convinced by false statements, I wanted to refute a couple of things that I hadn't seen refuted (although maybe I missed it).


Evolution contradicts known LAWS of physics, like the 2nd law of Thermodynamics.


The second law of thermodynamics states that entropy cannot decrease IN A CLOSED SYSTEM. The earth is not a closed system, it has been receiving energy from the sun for billions of years. It's entirely possible for entropy to decrease on earth, and the evidence shows quite clearly that it has.


We now know that there are in fact tens of thousands of irreducibly complex systems on the cellular level.


Just because a system is irreducibly complex today doesn't mean it has always been that way. It's entirely possible that redundant parts existed at some point in the past, and then disappeared due to evolution when they were no longer needed. The fact that animals, humans included, are known to have useless or redundant organs (as pointed out several times in this thread) is pretty strong evidence that this does indeed happen.

Another way to look at it is to consider the example of the stone arch. A stone arch is irreducibly complex, if you remove any one stone the entire arch will collapse. Therefore, by creationist or ID logic, it must have been created instantaneously already complete intact. But we know that's not true because we know how it's built. Scaffolding is set up to hold the stones in place until the keystone is placed. At that point, the scaffolding becomes redundant and is removed, leaving an irreducibly complex stone arch. When it comes to such systems in life, we can't see the scaffolding because it disappeared millions of years before we were around to look for it. But that doesn't mean it was never there.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 24 (view)
 
Should governments negotiate with terrorists?
Posted: 8/23/2006 6:40:35 PM

Watch the movie, "Mars Attacks!". See the cute little aliens listening to offers of negotiation? What is their response? Now you have some idea about what we're up against.

Right, we're up against fiction, unfortunately it's coming from our governments instead of a Hollywood studio.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 17 (view)
 
Is there Proof for evolution being true?
Posted: 8/23/2006 6:25:23 PM
You could check wikipedia's article on evolution, in particular the section titled "Evidence of Evolution" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution).


Evolution has left numerous records which reveal the history of different species. Fossils, together with the comparative anatomy of present-day plants and animals, constitute the morphological, or anatomical, record. By comparing the anatomies of both modern and extinct species, paleontologists can infer the lineages of those species. Important fossil evidence includes the connection of distinct classes of organisms by so-called "transitional" species, such as the Archaeopteryx, which provided early evidence for the link between dinosaurs and birds,[13] and the recently-discovered Tiktaalik, which clarifies the development from fish to animals with four limbs.[14]

The development of molecular genetics, and particularly of DNA sequencing, has allowed biologists to study the record of evolution left in the organisms' genetic structures. The degree of similarity and difference in the DNA sequences of modern species allows geneticists to reconstruct their lineages. It is from DNA sequence comparisons that figures such as the 95% similarity between humans and chimpanzees come.[15][16]

Other evidence used to demonstrate evolutionary lineages includes the geographical distribution of species. For instance, monotremes and most marsupials are found only in Australia, showing that their common ancestor with placental mammals lived before the submerging of the ancient land bridge between Australia and Asia.

Scientists correlate all of the above evidence, drawn from paleontology, anatomy, genetics, and geography, with other information about the history of Earth. For instance, paleoclimatology attests to periodic ice ages during which the world's climate was much cooler, and these are often found to match up with the spread of species which are better-equipped to deal with the cold, such as the woolly mammoth.

Morphological evidence
Fossils are critical evidence for estimating when various lineages originated. Since fossilization of an organism is an uncommon occurrence, usually requiring hard parts (like teeth, bone or pollen), the fossil record is traditionally thought to provide only sparse and intermittent information about ancestral lineages. Fossilization of organisms without hard body parts is rare, but happens under unusual circumstances, such as rapid burial, low oxygen environments, or microbial action[17].

The fossil record provides several types of data important to the study of evolution. First, the fossil record contains the earliest known examples of life itself, as well as the earliest occurrences of individual lineages. For example, the first complex animals date from the early Cambrian period, approximately 520 million years ago. Second, the records of individual species yield information regarding the patterns and rates of evolution, showing for example if species evolve into new species (speciation) gradually and incrementally, or in relatively brief intervals of geologic time. Thirdly, the fossil record is a document of large scale patterns and events in the history of life, many of which have influenced the evolutionary history of numerous lineages. For example, mass extinctions frequently resulted in the loss of entire groups of species, such as the non-avian dinosaurs, while leaving others relatively unscathed. Recently, molecular biologists have used the time since divergence of related lineages to calibrate the rate at which mutations accumulate, and at which the genomes of different lineages evolve.

Phylogenetics, the study of the ancestry of species, has revealed that structures with similar internal organization may perform divergent functions. Vertebrate limbs are a common example of such homologous structures. The appendages on bat wings, for example, are very structurally similar to human hands, and may constitute a vestigial structure. Other examples include the presence of hip bones in whales and snakes. Such structures may exist with little or no function in a more current organism, yet have a clear function in an ancestral species of the same. Examples of vestigial structures in humans include wisdom teeth, the coccyx and the vermiform appendix.

Molecular evidence

Comparison of the DNA sequences allows organisms to be grouped by sequence similarity, and the resulting phylogenetic trees are typically congruent with traditional taxonomy, and are often used to strengthen or correct taxonomic classifications. Sequence comparison is considered a measure robust enough to be used to correct erroneous assumptions in the phylogenetic tree in instances where other evidence is scarce. For example, neutral human DNA sequences are approximately 1.2% divergent (based on substitutions) from those of their nearest genetic relative, the chimpanzee, 1.6% from gorillas, and 6.6% from baboons.[18] Genetic sequence evidence thus allows inference and quantification of genetic relatedness between humans and other apes.[19][20] The sequence of the 16S rRNA gene, a vital gene encoding a part of the ribosome, was used to find the broad phylogenetic relationships between all extant life. The analysis, originally done by Carl Woese, resulted in the three-domain system, arguing for two major splits in the early evolution of life. The first split led to modern Bacteria and the subsequent split led to modern Archaea and Eukaryote.

The proteomic evidence also supports the universal ancestry of life. Vital proteins, such as the ribosome, DNA polymerase, and RNA polymerase are found in the most primitive bacteria to the most complex mammals. The core part of the protein is conserved across all lineages of life, serving similar functions. Higher organisms have evolved additional protein subunits, largely affecting the regulation and protein-protein interaction of the core. Other overarching similarities between all lineages of extant organisms, such as DNA, RNA, amino acids, and the lipid bilayer, give support to the theory of common descent. The chirality of DNA, RNA, and amino acids is conserved across all known life. As there is no functional advantage to right or left handed molecular chirality, the simplest hypothesis is that the choice was made randomly in the early beginnings of life and passed on to all extant life through common descent.

Molecular evidence also offers a mechanism for large evolutionary leaps and macroevolution. Horizontal gene transfer, the process in which an organism transfers genetic material (i.e. DNA) to another cell that is not its offspring, allows for large sudden evolutionary leaps in a species by incorporating beneficial genes evolved in another species. The Endosymbiotic theory explains the origin of mitochondria and plastids (e.g. chloroplasts), which are organelles of eukaryotic cells, as the incorporation of an ancient prokaryotic cell into ancient eukaryotic cell. Rather than evolving eukaryotic organelles slowly, this theory offers a mechanism for a sudden evolutionary leap by incorporating the genetic material and biochemical composition of a separate species. This evolutionary mechanism has been observed. Heneta, a protist, is an extant organism that is undergoing endosymbiotic evolution[21][22].

Further evidence for reconstructing ancestral lineages comes from junk DNA such as pseudogenes, i.e., 'dead' genes, which steadily accumulate mutations. [23]

Since metabolic processes do not leave fossils, research into the evolution of the basic cellular processes is done largely by comparison of existing organisms. Many lineages diverged when new metabolic processes appeared, and it is theoretically possible to determine when certain metabolic processes appeared by comparing the traits of the descendants of a common ancestor or by detecting their physical manifestations. As an example, the appearance of oxygen in the earth's atmosphere is linked to the evolution of photosynthesis.

Evidence from studies of complex iteration

"It has taken more than five decades, but the electronic computer is now powerful enough to simulate evolution" assisting bioinformatics in its attempt to solve biological problems.[24] Computer science allows the iteration of self changing complex systems to be studied, allowing a mathematically exact understanding of the nature of the processes behind evolution and providing evidence for the hidden causes of known evolutionary events. The evolution of specific cellular mechanisms like spliceosomes that can turn the cell's genome into a vast workshop of billions of interchangeable parts can be studied for the first time in an exact way.

Christoph Adami et al., for example, make this point in Evolution of biological complexity:

To make a case for or against a trend in the evolution of complexity in biological evolution, complexity needs to be both rigorously defined and measurable. A recent information-theoretic (but intuitively evident) definition identifies genomic complexity with the amount of information a sequence stores about its environment. We investigate the evolution of genomic complexity in populations of digital organisms and monitor in detail the evolutionary transitions that increase complexity. We show that, because natural selection forces genomes to behave as a natural "Maxwell Demon," within a fixed environment, genomic complexity is forced to increase. [25]

David J. Earl and Michael W. Deem also make this point in Evolvability is a selectable trait:

Not only has life evolved, but life has evolved to evolve. That is, correlations within protein structure have evolved, and mechanisms to manipulate these correlations have evolved in tandem. The rates at which the various events within the hierarchy of evolutionary moves occur are not random or arbitrary but are selected by Darwinian evolution. Sensibly, rapid or extreme environmental change leads to selection for greater evolvability. This selection is not forbidden by causality and is strongest on the largest-scale moves within the mutational hierarchy. Many observations within evolutionary biology, heretofore considered evolutionary happenstance or accidents, are explained by selection for evolvability. For example, the vertebrate immune system shows that the variable environment of antigens has provided selective pressure for the use of adaptable codons and low-fidelity polymerases during somatic hypermutation. A similar driving force for biased codon usage as a result of productively high mutation rates is observed in the hemagglutinin protein of influenza A. [26]

"Computer simulations of the evolution of linear sequences have demonstrated the importance of recombination of blocks of sequence rather than point mutagenesis alone. Repeated cycles of point mutagenesis, recombination, and selection should allow in vitro molecular evolution of complex sequences, such as proteins." [27] Evolutionary molecular engineering, also called "directed evolution" or "in vitro molecular evolution", involves the iterated cycle of mutation, multiplication with recombination, and selection of the fittest of individual molecules (proteins, DNA and RNA). The process of natural evolution can be reconstructed, showing possible paths from catalytic cycles based on proteins to ones based on RNA to ones based on DNA.[28]


I didn't copy their sources, you can go to the site if you want to look at them.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 20 (view)
 
Should governments negotiate with terrorists?
Posted: 8/23/2006 5:26:57 PM
Under the classic definition of terrorism I'd say governments absolutely should not negotiate. If a terrorist group kidnaps some people and asks for money or a prisoner exchange in return, then negotiating would only encourage them to do it again.

Of course, governments have extended the definition of terrorism well beyond that these days, so if we're talking about "terrorists" like Hezbollah, Hamas, or Iraqi insurgents, whose main purpose is to free their nations from foreign occupiers, then our governments definitely should negotiate with them. They have legitimate concerns that can be resolved peacefully.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 3 (view)
 
Do I have this correct? Does Non religious mean that the person doesn't believe in God?
Posted: 8/21/2006 10:14:42 PM
I would expect that the overwhelming majority of non-religious people on here don't believe in a god. It's certainly possible that some might, and surely others are agnostic, but belief in a god is such a defining part of western religions that it seems likely that any believer would claim to be religious.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 29 (view)
 
Re-name the movie title....
Posted: 8/20/2006 10:18:16 AM
Jaws - Shark at a beach
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 56 (view)
 
New photos that implicate Hezbollah
Posted: 8/1/2006 11:06:31 PM
Here's an interesting article from an American journalist in Lebanon called The "hiding among civilians" myth. http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/07/28/hezbollah/

A quote:
"Throughout this now 16-day-old war, Israeli planes high above civilian areas make decisions on what to bomb. They send huge bombs capable of killing things for hundreds of meters around their targets, and then blame the inevitable civilian deaths -- the Lebanese government says 600 civilians have been killed so far -- on "terrorists" who callously use the civilian infrastructure for protection.

But this claim is almost always false. My own reporting and that of other journalists reveals that in fact Hezbollah fighters -- as opposed to the much more numerous Hezbollah political members, and the vastly more numerous Hezbollah sympathizers -- avoid civilians. Much smarter and better trained than the PLO and Hamas fighters, they know that if they mingle with civilians, they will sooner or later be betrayed by collaborators -- as so many Palestinian militants have been."
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 7 (view)
 
New Qana Massacre Kills Dozens
Posted: 7/30/2006 8:40:45 AM

Any civilians still on the battlefield in Lebanon should be considered hostiles. These people, actually, they're terrorists and supporters, have been warned repeatedly to leave.


Have you somehow missed all the reports of roads and bridges being blown up in Lebanon making it extremely difficult for civilians to leave. Or how about the reports of convoys of evacuating civilians being accidentally bombed by Israel. Face it, Hezbollah doesn't care what they hit with their rockets, and Israel doesn't care what they hit with their bombs.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 67 (view)
 
Do You Think Harper Will Lose Votes For Backing Israel?
Posted: 7/29/2006 2:48:33 PM

As for the "silly" 1% GST cut....

Wait until you buy a home or a car and do the math.
Its silly on small purchases, yes. But not on major ones.


This is exactly the problem with cutting the GST, it's a tax cut for the rich. Whoever can afford the most expensive home or the most expensive car will get the most benefit. Meanwhile, poor people might not ever buy a home or a car, they need to spend all their earnings just putting food on the table, on which GST isn't applied anyway.

That's why virtually every economist said that income tax cuts targetted at the middle class would be more effective. Those tax cuts would help the majority of Canadians, not the richest few. The GST cut is vote buying, plain and simple. People like it because they're reminded of it every day, but it's not good economic policy.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 14 (view)
 
Junk e-mail...
Posted: 7/29/2006 2:11:22 PM
The funky shape characters are from a foreign language, but your computer doesn't have the right fonts installed to display them so it just shows squares or other weird shapes. So basically, you ended up on an east Asian spam list somehow.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 29 (view)
 
Do You Think Harper Will Lose Votes For Backing Israel?
Posted: 7/28/2006 4:11:08 PM

That was not a perfectly valid ethics investigation. Floor crossing has been around since we have had a political system.


This particular floor crossing was a special case that deserved an investigation. Emerson crossed the floor immediately after being elected as a Liberal. The announcement that he was being given a cabinet post came at the same time as the announcement that he was joining the Conservatives. So, it was perfectly valid to ask the question: did he get offered the cabinet post before deciding to cross the floor? If yes, it would have been a clear ethics violation. I'm glad the answer turned out to be no, we've had enough government scandals to last us for a while, but when it looks suspicious it definitely deserves to be investigated.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 25 (view)
 
Is Quebec exempt?
Posted: 7/28/2006 3:55:18 PM
In response to "more then 50% of the taxes collected in the rest of canada gets paid directly to quebec", I'd like to point out that only 6.5% of Canada's total budget goes to equalization payments (source: http://www.fin.gc.ca/access/budinfoe.html), so there's no way any province could possibly get 50% of all tax dollars. Quebec gets the biggest chunk of the payments, because they are by far the biggest of the provinces that receive them, but it would only amount to about 3-3.5% of all taxes collected.

And on a different note from justanormalguy68:


The question becomes, why is a province that is so populous, and home to one of the largest cities in Canada, a "have not" province?


This has alot to do with the separatist movement. The government in Quebec is just a constant fight between those who want to separate and those who do not. While governments in other provinces are working to become more prosperous, Quebec is busy preparing to separate, and then undoing the preparations, as their government goes back and forth between PQ and Liberal. Montreal was severely damaged during the two referendums because many business that used to be headquarted there got scared off by the instability and moved down the 401 to Toronto. I loved it when I was living there, it's great for the diversity and the quality of life, but it's a city that faces alot of adversity because of the politics that surround it.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 47 (view)
 
Kill 15 Kyoto programs in one chop and censor your own people?
Posted: 7/27/2006 10:46:49 PM
hezron:


History is already showing, and will continue to show that Capitalism does not work in the long run. too much of the wealth eventually ends up in too few hands and those few then have the power to manupulate the system and soon you have a facism based on currency.


Capitalism works quite well when there are rules in place to prevent people from getting too much wealth. Heavy taxes on the rich are the key, and Canada's have been working nicely so far. The U.S., on the other hand, has let it get badly out of control and might turn into a failed Capitalist state, but still it's the best system we have and if properly managed it has been shown to work for hundreds of years at least.


The planet is a closed system and has to managed as such.


Not true. Life on earth depends on the fact that it's not a closed system. Energy is constantly added from the sun, and that's where we have to look to satisfy our future energy needs.


I unfortunately have come to the conclusion that the only system that will ever work is one of a benevolent, informed dictatorship.


A benevolent, informed dictatorship is a great form of government. Unfortunately it usually takes only a couple of generations before it becomes a harsh dictatorship preying on the people for the wealth of the dictator. So unless you want a revolution every 50 years or less I don't think it's a good idea.

dunrich:

The most important thing about Kyoto is it's an international agreement. Global warming is an international problem, we can't just tackle it our own way and expect everything to work out great. We need to have the cooperation of the whole world. Kyoto is flawed, but it's a starting point, and if it wasn't for countries like the U.S., Australia, and now Canada trying to derail the process, we probably would have developed a better worldwide solution by now.


And for heaven sakes, Chretien was the most corrupt Canadain ever, sheesh!


I'm not sure about most corrupt ever, but otherwise I agree with you there.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 21 (view)
 
Do You Think Harper Will Lose Votes For Backing Isreal?
Posted: 7/27/2006 10:28:40 PM

-Strong, decisive leader (completely opposite of Dithers)

I'm not convinced of that yet. He acts pretty uptight when the cameras are on like he's always worried about what others think of him, that's not strong. And, although I wouldn't call Martin a strong decisive leader, Chretien certainly was (probably a bit too much).


-Some-one who cares deeply about our country

I agree, but so did Martin. Chretien cared more about himself though.


-Intelligence

Both Chretien and Martin were very smart, as evidenced by their careers, so was Mulroney, Trudeau, etc. Not a unique trait in a PM.


-Some-one who wants to clean up the hill and change how politics generates money. He does not want big buisness influencing politics. That kind of flies in the face of him being a Bush lover doesnt it?

It was Chretien who brought in the campaign finance reform that largely prevented big business from buying politicians. And as for cleaning up the hill, one of the first things Harper did was to refuse to cooperate with a perfectly valid ethics investigation. How's that for accountability?


-Some-one who is in tune with the moderate majority in this country who hands out majority governments wether they be Liberal or conservative

36% is a long way from a majority. It's possible that he'll get a majority government the next time around, but it'll only be one of those weird 40% majorities that come out of our outdated political system.


-A moderate thinker who has the ability to unite this country under one flag and would never back down or try to appease the seperatists

He's only 5 years removed from his "firewall around Alberta" days, that's not very moderate. His change of heart makes him look like just another politician who claims to believe whatever will get him the most votes at the time. And the Bloc will continue to dominate Quebec, I don't have much doubt about that.


-competence

I'm seriously worried about his economic competence. Cutting the GST was just stupid when virtually every economist agrees that income tax cuts targetted at the middle class would be much more effective. But the GST cut buys more votes because people are reminded of it every day. Good politics, but bad policy.


-the ability to make things happen, even in a minority government, no dithering here

He's really gone too far here. In a minority government, he has no business making such large changes to Canada's foreign policy. He's overstepping his bounds here.


Who stands to gain by Harper staying in?
Canada. Every one of us.

On the international stage we stand to lose badly by standing against the majority of the world. That'll trickle down to all Canadians if we let him keep it up for too long.


Every-thing from righting the wrongs to the Hep C victims, to taking care of our military, to toughening lax laws with regards to violent crime, the list goes on and on.

Hep C was good, but the military spending seems dangerously big, especially coupled with the tax cuts. We still have a pretty big debt here, it's not out of control like it was in Trudeau's days, but we still need a fiscally responsible government to keep it that way.

And as for the question from the original post, yes, he'll lose votes. The Jewish people rallying in support of him now probably voted for him in the last election, their politics seem to match up well. The non-Zionist jews aren't going to flock to him in large numbers now, since many of them don't like what Isreal is doing, and arabs who voted conservative last time will certainly think twice the next time around.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 9 (view)
 
Is Quebec exempt?
Posted: 7/26/2006 8:39:14 PM
Well, my Alberta driver's license is all English, so is my health card. Quebec government services are all offered in French and English, I know that from living there for a couple of years, but I guess there's no requirement for bilingual ID cards.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 33 (view)
 
Kill 15 Kyoto programs in one chop and censor your own people?
Posted: 7/25/2006 8:42:03 AM
63% of Canadians voted for a party that supports the Kyoto protocol but we somehow ended up with a government that's against it. I think someone needs to remind Mr. Harper that he's got a minority government, he doesn't have the mandate to change Canada's foreign policies like he's doing.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 4 (view)
 
Penny Stocks...what do you think of them?
Posted: 7/15/2006 11:32:23 AM
Penny stocks are basically a gamble unless you've thoroughly researched the companies and have good reason to believe they'll do well. Otherwise, they go bankrupt at a much higher rate than other companies, so don't be surprised if you lose everything. On the other hand, some times they go way up and then you can make a killing. Big risk, big reward.

Also, be careful about investing a few hundred dollars in the stock market. It's designed for investing large amounts of money so the fees are pretty high if you're not investing much. For example, if you buy $200 worth of stock, you're probably going to have to pay about a $20 fee at best, which means you have to get over 10% return on the stock before you make a dime.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 17 (view)
 
The Atlanta Falcons and the Bible
Posted: 7/13/2006 8:12:50 AM
obliq: I'm using 'culture' in a more broad sense than art/architecture/etc, more along the lines of the field of cultural anthropology. Scientific progress is a part of cultural evolution, it's a product of the culture.

The main point is that all the knowledge we have today is built on the knowledge of those that came before us. We don't start each generation with a clean slate, because of culture we start it with alot of scientific advances already made for us, and then we build on top of that. The archaeological record shows pretty steady progress from primitive tools to where we are today. It was slow going until civilization, when large groups of people started living together, each person could become much more specialized and advances have happened much quicker since.

There's no good evidence to suggest that people thousands of years ago had technology like ours today and lost it somehow. Our experiences today show that alot of that technology would be used to save lives and improve living conditions, allowing for the kind of population explosion that we've had over the last century or so. Actually, I could argue that a large population is necessary for the technology to be invented, the logistics behind inventing nuclear weapons require alot of human resources to draw on. So if you can find evidence for billions of people having lived thousands of years ago then I'll believe it, since there's no way that kind of evidence would be erased in such a short time.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 69 (view)
 
Is Global Warming Really Going to Hurt Mother Nature?
Posted: 7/12/2006 11:01:53 PM
^^^ Why do people keep confusing damaging the ozone layer with global warming? They're different problems.

Damage to the ozone layer is caused by aerosols destroying ozone atoms in the upper atmosphere allowing more radiation from the sun to reach the earth, causing increased risk of cancer. This problem has been pretty successfully addressed by governments internationally and the ozone layer is believed to be recovering now.

Global warming is caused by greenhouse gases like CO2 trapping heat from the sun in the earth's atmosphere, causing the planet to warm up. This problem has not been dealt with and is still getting worse.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 11 (view)
 
The Atlanta Falcons and the Bible
Posted: 7/12/2006 5:32:46 PM

If humanity was the same biologically and as mentally-capable 40,000 years ago as it is today, why would this species spend 35,000 years running around in a deerskin loincloth bashing rocks together?


It's called cultural evolution, or more eloquently, "standing on the shoulders of giants".
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 180 (view)
 
Is there Life on other Planets?
Posted: 7/12/2006 8:46:55 AM
skypoetone:

My first thought on reading that article was: how could anyone possibly translate alien hieroglyphics? A little research and wikipedia confirmed this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dropa

Here's their criticisms section, the relationship to Erich von Daniken is an immediate red flag.


Critics have largely rejected the above claims, arguing they are a combination of hoax and urban legend. For example, writer David Richie notes that the Dropa tales intrigued Gordon Chreighton, a Fellow of the Royal Anthropological Society and Royal Geographical Society. Upon investigation, Chreighton judged the sensationalistic Dropa-Extraterrestrial allegations to be "groundless," and detailed his findings in an article for Flying Saucer Review.

No traceable, credible evidence for this theory exists, or can be proven to have existed in the past. Proponents of the Dropa-stones story claim that this is the result of social disruption caused by the Chinese Cultural Revolution and of a conspiratorial coverup by Chinese authorities. However this story goes well beyond China. Its opponents claim it is long proven to be a forgery by Erich von Däniken.

Below is a detailed rebuttal of most sensationalistic Extraterrestrial/Dropa claims:

* 1. The discovery. There are no mentions of 'Tsum Um Nui' anywhere; as he is supposed to have fled China and died in Japan in the 1960s this cannot be negated by Cultural Revolution - Communist coverup theory. Also, there is no mention of the 1938 archaeological expedition to the Bayan Kara Ula range. No "Peking Academy of Pre-History" ever existed.

* 2. Early Sources. The earliest mention of the story is in Erich von Däniken's infamous 1968 book, Chariots of the Gods. The book has been widely criticised as unreliable; in fact, the vast majority of names and sources appearing in the book cannot be corroborated, and no existence of the following Soviet or Chinese scholars can be found anywhere outside this story: Chu Pu Tei, Tsum Um Nui, Ernst Wegener, Vyatcheslav Saitzev, and Sergei Lolladoff. Most tellingly, Däniken gives his main source for the story as a Soviet science fiction writer Alexander Kazantsev; however Kazantsev himself disagrees with Däniken's account and says that it was Däniken who told him the story, not the other way around.

* 3. Later Sources. The 1978 book Sungods in Exile "edited" by David Agamon, appeared to lend support to the story of the Dropa, but Agamon admitted in the magazine Fortean Times in 1988 that the book was fiction and that its alleged author, a British researcher named Dr. Karyl Robin-Evans, was imaginary. Some websites claim to show a photo of Dr Robin-Evans with the Dalai Lama. A frail, old man assisted by the current Dalai Lama, the photograph is quite recent and can not be Dr Robin-Evans -- he died in 1978, according to Hartwig Hausdorf.

* 4. Translation. There is absolutely no precedent for an unknown language being successfully deciphered. All lost ancient languages have been rediscovered only because they survived in forms familiar to scientists. Even in such cases, deciphering and understanding these older language forms and their scripts has usually taken decades for multiple teams of highly competent linguists, and their findings are constantly being debated and updated. Many ancient scripts (notably Linear A from the island of Crete and Rongorongo from Easter Island), have defied deciphering precisely because they cannot be linked to any known language. Given these facts, there would be even greater difficulties in translating a truly extraterrestrial language. It is therefore highly unlikely that a single Chinese scholar with no reported background in linguistics could single-handedly decipher an alien script or language in his spare time.

* 5. The Disks. All that exists of the supposed alien disks are several wide-angle photographs. The disks photographed, firstly, do not match the described "12-inch disks"; the disks photographed are very large. Secondly, the photos show none of the supposed deep grooves. Finally, absolutely no photos, descriptions, analyses or any other evidence of the actual 'alien script' appear anywhere at all.

* 6. The Evidence. The disks were supposed to be stored in several museums in China. None of these museums have any traces of these disks, nor can any be found of the ones supposedly sent to USSR for analysis.

* 7. The Dropa Tribe. While reported to be a tribe of feeble dwarfs, in actuality the Dropas are nomadic herders who inhabit most of the northern Tibetan Plateau. The Ham are also inhabitants of Tibet, and traditionally have supplied Tibet's warriors: many of the 13th Dalai Lama's bodyguards during his escape from the Chinese invasion were Ham Tibetans. The word "Dropa", according to Chrieghton, describes the nomadic residents of Tibetan highlands, and can be roughly translated as "solitude" or "isolated". Furthermore, Chreighton described the Dropa as not resembling "troglodytes", or as stunted; on the contrary, they tend to be rather large and sturdy, befitting their occupation as herders. (Richie, 95-96)
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 16 (view)
 
Is Science a Religion?
Posted: 7/12/2006 8:41:29 AM
If somebody doesn't understand the scientific method and the peer review process that scientific ideas have to go through, then I can certainly understand how they could equate science with religion. Sounds like a failing of the education system in that case.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 5 (view)
 
Atlantis and the Bible
Posted: 7/12/2006 8:36:52 AM

They may have been Mycenaeans, due to some similaries in pottery.


That's also backed up by similarities in architecture and language/writings, and the time frame matches a time when alot of Mycenaeans migrated south to get away from some sort of disaster. The main question remaining is exactly where they came from, and I think Cyprus is the popular view right now.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 3650 (view)
 
Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 7/10/2006 7:20:14 PM

Sure, that's a possibility, but it's also suggesting that an entire culture was based on people tripping out on mushrooms or whathaveyou...and to me that doesn't seem very likely...but that could be because I'm influenced by modern society's mainstream attitude towards drugs, which would have been different back then, less hang-ups...


You could look at the Yanomamo of the amazon, who were pretty much untouched by modern society until the late 20th century. They used hallucinogenic drugs during their religious rituals to communicate with spirit beings. This is pretty similar to some other Native American cultures that used peyote or tobacco for similar purposes, recently enough that its well documented. It's also known from other parts of the world, usually tribal societies.

It doesn't mean they were stoned all the time. The drugs were severely restricted, they could only be used during special rituals and by certain people (eg. shamans, elders), and were considered to be of high religious significance. This might seem strange to us today since we know that drugs work by screwing with the mind, but cultures that don't understand that have to come up with another explanation for their experiences. But still, even today I know people, some pretty smart, who believe that psychedelic drugs give them deep spiritual experiences.

As for the stuff about monatomic elements and mining in Africa, I don't know enough on the subjects to argue, so I won't. Maybe somebody else can dispute that for me .
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 3646 (view)
 
Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 7/10/2006 8:03:10 AM

Ok so your saying the evolutionary theory at its roots ex. (Big Bang theory) is not supernatural seeing as though a massive ball of materials used to create life comes out of nothing.


The big bang theory and its variants are based on observed background radiation in the universe that otherwise has no explanation (http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/cosmology/cbr.html). It doesn't have a lot of evidence to support it because of the nature of the problem (so long ago, can't be observed, etc) but it's the best theory we have so far.

Also, scientists can't provide a theory for what caused the big bang, or what came before it, because there is no evidence whatsoever in that area. Any explanation is just wild speculation, so its not a part of science.


and actually if evolution is so emersed in scientific fact how come it defies the unbunked scientific law of thermodynamics.


It doesn't (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/thermo/probability.html).


and occording to evolution we evoved from apes. that is bullshit seeing hoe there are still apes today much to the dismay of evolutionist extremely similer if not the same as our so called ancestors.


No scientists ever said that a new species must replace the one that came before it. Imagine one animal lives over a wide range. Something happens that separates the two populations (continental drift, climate change that renders part of their range uninhabitable, etc). The two populations of the same animal then continue evolving separately in two possibly different directions, both surviving as different species. See island dwarfing for some perfect examples.


Stilling searching for that non-existent missing link


The term 'missing link' was coined a long time ago. Since then scientists have continued to discover more and more fossils of prehistoric humans, yet people still like refering to the missing link for some reason. The truth is, there is no missing link anymore, the gaps in the fossil record have been filled quite well over the years.


If natural selection is true then why are humans wasting there time trying to find and discover outer space and our own origins when it isnt relavent to our survival.


Humans have succeeded as a species by gaining knowledge, it shouldn't surprise anyone that people still try to gain knowledge today, even if its not directly related to survival or reproduction. There are plenty of examples of things people do that don't relate to survival or reproduction (eg. guys who play video games all the time and never talk to women).
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 3635 (view)
 
Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 7/9/2006 4:30:27 PM

Let me be clear that I'm not presenting any of the ancient astronaut theory as gospel truth, but it is fascinating because it does make sense of various mysteries regarding the Sumerians, Babylonians, Akkadians, Egyptians and early Israelites. And they drew some weird pictures and statues...flying chariots with wings, submarines, people wearing fish suits, beams of destructive force emitting from towers...what do you make of that? Those stories that appear in so many mythologies had to originate somewhere. Maybe the Sumerians just had really good imaginations...they didn't have TV back then....
Or did they...?


I like to explain the behaviour of past cultures using our knowledge of people alive today (or recently enough that we can trust the recorded history).

We know that cultures, past and present, have used hallucinogenic drugs and other means to go into trance-like states where they have visions (eg. shamanism). Some of these visions involve feelings of flying, encounters with spirit beings, etc.
We know that some people have mental problems that can cause them to have spiritual visions (eg. epileptic seisures). Here's an interesting link that suggests some important religious figures (Moses, Muhammed, St. Paul) may have had epilepsy (http://www.meta-religion.com/Psychiatry/The_Paranormal/trascendent_experiences.htm).

So my opinion on pictures and statues of strange, out-of-this-world things from ancient cultures is that they are probably a result of some altered state of the mind. It just makes more sense to me because it doesn't involve invoking something for which we have no hard evidence (aliens visiting the earth).
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 3633 (view)
 
Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 7/9/2006 9:12:05 AM

I think that if the collision of our planet with another is what seeded the Earth with life, it stands to reason that there was no life on the planet before then, so, yes, the Sumerians were not around at that point. They claim that the knowledge was told to them by the gods, who came from the planet, which they called the planet of crossing and was represented by a cross.


Then the same stands for that planet of the gods. The only way that they could have survived the collision and told the Sumerians about it would be if they had some really advanced technology that allowed them to escape their planet before the collision, settle on some other planet in a far away solar system, and then come back billions of years later to explain the situation to the Sumerians. Pretty far fetched.


As far as evidence of a planetary collision goes, it explains the asteroid belt and also Pluto's erratic orbit. As well as the comets, which they say were originally 9 of Earth's 10 moons, which were knocked into their elliptical orbits after the collision. It's as likely an explanation of the origin of the asteroid belt as your "widely accepted" view, which I should point out is also just a matter of faith.


It's not as likely an explanation as the widely accepted one because the widely accepted one is based on known facts about the solar system. By studying the formation of other stars in other parts of the galaxy we can see that they coalesce from nebulae, once formed they're left with a disc of material around them, and physics (plus the lack of that disc around mature stars) suggests that planets form due to collisions and gravitational attraction within that disc, except in special cases like the asteroid belt. This also explains the fact that all planets lie on the same plane and orbit in the same direction.

Pluto's erratic orbit is explained by the fact that it's really just a large Kuiper belt object (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuiper_belt), there are way more than 9 comets (proof from wikipedia, they mention more than 9 different comets in their article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet, also the Kuiper belt article notes how short period comets are believed to originate there, long period comets are believed to originate from the Oort cloud, although that's more speculative). And here's the asteroid belt article just for good measure: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_belt, notice how the physics of Jupiter's gravity accurately predicts the boundaries of the asteroid belt, more strong evidence.


I submit that science is just another religion and its followers get just as outraged by things that question their beliefs as Christians or any other faithful do. Except for Buddhists and Taoists. They don't seem to get outraged by very much...


Science is based on facts, and a good scientist will happily change his/her beliefs when new facts come to light (although, when scientists see the theories they've been working on all their lives fall apart due to new evidence, many of them don't take it too well, but the overall scientific community moves on to the new theories without much trouble). Scientists do get outraged when ideas that are not based on facts, and can be easily disputed by looking at the facts, become popular. There's a big difference between testable theories and blind faith.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 3630 (view)
 
Creation vs Evolution
Posted: 7/8/2006 9:34:36 PM

What's mind boggling about them is that their creation story seems to tell of how a planet from outside our solar system was pulled in by Neptune's gravity and collided with the earth, creating the asteroid belt. And if this was a life-bearing planet, possibly the planet of the gods, the collision may have seeded the planet and made it possible for life to evolve on Earth. This creation story is why the planets are named after gods. The Sumarians knew the earth was a sphere and revolved around the sun. They knew of all the planets. There's tablets that show the solar system.


The most widely accepted view of how the asteroid belt was created is that a ring of rocky matter that was left after the formation of the sun failed to coalesce into a planet because of Jupiter's gravity. This fits really nicely with our knowledge of how the solar system was created, that planets formed from a disc of matter left over after the sun formed, so there's really no reason to believe that the asteroid belt was formed by a planetary collision when the evidence doesn't support that.

Also, if such a collision did seed life on earth, there's no way anything more than bacteria could have survived the impact. Even just a comet was enough to wipe out the dinosaurs, a collision between planets would be so much worse. If the Sumerians were around to witness something like that, there's no way they could have passed it down through their mythology because they would all have been dead.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 32 (view)
 
NY Tunnel plot FOILED
Posted: 7/8/2006 10:14:43 AM
First of all, good job by the FBI for staying on tops of this, that's their job after all. And monitoring chat rooms is perfectly legal since it's a public forum, it's no different than sitting in a coffee shop prentending to read a paper while listening to a nearby conversation.

However, why do they have to make such a big deal out of this, scare an entire city, when there's hardly any evidence for a legitimate threat? First we had those seven guys in Miami who later turned out to be a bunch of homeless guys who couldn't even afford a bus trip across Miami let alone a plane ticket to Chicago. Now we learn of these terrorists who were planning to blow up the Holland tunnel and flood the NYC financial district, when experts say blowing up the tunnel would be incredibly hard to do and there's no way it could flood the financial district which is well above the water line. Yeah, good plan, those terrorists really knew what they were doing.

This is just fear mongering, there's an election coming.
 shwa112358
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 6 (view)
 
montreal vs las vegas
Posted: 7/8/2006 9:47:08 AM
Personally, I'd say Montreal, although it really depends on what you like. Las Vegas seemed more like some weird amusement park for adults when I was there, it hardly felt like I was travelling at all. Montreal has way more culture, but if you don't know some locals you'll have a hard time finding the best places since it isn't built for tourist like Vegas is. Also, the time of year is important, Montreal during Jazzfest or Just for Laughs is amazing, other times it's more ordinary, but there's always the french girls...
 
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