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 Author Thread: Olias Of Sunhillow
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 14 (view)
 
Olias Of Sunhillow
Posted: 2/16/2009 9:41:23 PM
Wow..I had that on 8-track back in the 1970s...Jon Anderson's solo project. I played it to death, & could not find it years later after the tape broke.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 266 (view)
 
should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 2/2/2009 9:31:35 AM



I got to thinking about your analogy, and would propose to extend it a little...

Susan hits Sally, and doesn't apologize.

Years later, Sally and Susan grow up and have daughters of their own - Sally has Janice, and Susan has Jennifer.

One day, the two meet in the street, and recognize each other. Janice screams at Jennifer... "Your Mom Hit My Mom and Didn't Apologize! I want YOU to apologize to ME!"

Is Janice, who had nothing to do with the original incident, owed an apology by Jennifer? Is Jennifer obligated to apologize to Janice, even though she wasn't even born at the time?


Thanks again. Perfect analogy. This is one of the examples I was trying to show in some of my past posts, but couldnt quite find the right words or thoughts to convey it as simply as this. I was taking the scenic route to this destination, rather than the most direct route.

The only correction I would make to it is they would not be Susan's and Sally's daughters, but their great-granddaughters. That is a bit more historically and generationally accurate.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 23 (view)
 
Skin color issues within the black race. Skin bleaching!
Posted: 2/2/2009 9:13:19 AM

My question is, do people actually feel better towards lighter skinned blacks, and are they treated better in society? If you were a dark skinned black person, would you bleach your skin? I think this type of racism, if that's what it can be called, is mainly within the black race. Black against black.


Good morning all.
What I notice, and is blatantly obvious to me, is "blacks" in the music & film industry, especially women, who are not predominately black at all, but identify themselves as black. We can always use Michael Jackson and Diana Ross as starting points, and fast forward to the present.

Take Beyonce`, Kelis, Shakira, Aaliyah, Vanessa Williams, and Tamia. Please add whoever else you can think of.

Yes, they are PART African American, but are also largely other ethnic bloodlines, yet they are subconciuosly labeled, and accept and identify themselves as black, and blacks accept and identify them likewise. The other bloodlines that make up their identity go largely unnoticed, or recognised.

They have the same, or lighter skintone as I do, have far more white Anglo facial features & characteristics than me, and, unlike mine, their hair is similar to any Caucasian walking the streets. They seem hell-bent on erasing any visible African part of their physical identity.

Why arent true Nubian looking American blacks represented this way? Is there not a bumper crop of dark-skinned African looking singers who can belt out a tune as good or better than them?

To me, skin lightening is only 1 facet of this shallow attempt to hide what they obviously must believe is an unnatractive trait. Looking like the end result of the above mentioned celebrtites baffles me, too.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 255 (view)
 
should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 2/1/2009 1:01:47 PM

Africans had been traded as slaves for centuries -- reaching Europe via the Islamic-run, trans-Saharan, trade routes. Slaves obtained from the Muslim dominated North African coast however proved to be too well educated to be trusted and had a tendency to rebellion.


That would be my North African/Libyan bloodline ancestors.

Thank you, RocketMan, for proving my point. Not only have I experienced the same injustices "officially & righteously " reserved for blacks, but I also officially have an ancestral slave history.....yet I am not BLACK.

This has been a most fascinating and eye opening last few pages of this thread for me.

The determined and repeated denial , dismissal, and invalidation of claims of similar oppression of those other than blacks , all whilst standing right beside them , is quite sickening for someone like me.

The philosophies of the collective guilt-tripping blacks and their legions of supporters have transformed this revisionist historical perspective into a warped one sided crusade that American blacks are the only ones divine enough to carry this staff. All others claims only serve to dilute or distract the limelight of this aura - in essence stealing the thunder that they believe is rightfully theirs alone.

All others are to be silenced, ignored, or discredited at all costs in order to preserve this long-term culmination of advantageous events that have led to this present day scenario.

Because of these deniers of today, these are our battles today more than ever. You can meekly stand by, silently aknowleging and perpetuating a conveniently censored version of what is preached to you, or if you know better, you can fight back. Those are everybody's choices.


I want my proverbial money back.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 249 (view)
 
should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 2/1/2009 10:07:51 AM

There have been generations, including the current generation, who still feel the effects of slavery because there are still people out there who believe that blacks are lessor human beings



For those who are of immigrant background, you cannot as much as you might want to compare the two....he is right...immigration is choice, slavery is not.


What effects would those be TODAY? I would like to know, because I have a feeling I can match being a victim of those effects, item for item. You obviously havent fathomed any other posts except the guilt tripper's posts. You certainly do not have to be an African-American to feel any injustice, and I certainly won't let any black get away with the worn out slavery excuse as a justification for any modern prejudice.

I know better, because none of us posting here were slaves, yet I have also suffered from generally the same basic modern prejudice as any black man in North America today, nevermind our grandfathers 100 years ago. I too can whip up past historical injustice and beat you to a pulp with it, but that is in the past and has no bearing on today.



The new President of the US is considered to be a black man over being a white man.....why the hell is that?


But not to me, nor the millions of others like me. But it seems we, nor our ideals count.

That is a question I would like answered, too.. Obama has more white cracker blood in him that I do. I believe, in the right light, we both have the same skin tone. What gives?

We are all members of the non-white rainbow ethnic subculture. The above mentioned example simply happens to have a larger percentage of Nubian blood than I do - that is the only difference. That is all.

Those in my rainbow ethnic subculture who indentify those as "half black' have been aided by these very same mixed race "half blacks" who themselves eagerly accept and trumpet this brand. They label themselves. We did not invent it.

Perpetuating, amplying, magnifying, and wrapping oneself in this obsolete self serving stereotypical blanket only serves to keep it alive, front and centre.

Of course, diluted blacks will argue that this is inaccurate, as they are branded BLACK by society, BUT they readily accept and wear that black nametag conveniently.

Unfortunately, the hypocritical double standard that they practise is, these very same mixed race people likewise blindly label me as WHITE, of which I have learned from whites and my regional society, throughout my life, that I am not.


Changing attitudes will but for attitudes to change, one first must OPEN THEIR EYES and try to see from the other side the damage that has been done and accept RESPONSIBILITY for it.


But this will never go away. Prepare yourself for this for the rest of your life, and for the lives of your children. Blacks continue to rub salt into this very wound, and it will never heal, thanks to their legions and the masses of their own kind who fuel this ilk.

Doing this is very convenient for those blacks who wish to perpetuate the everlasting guilt trip of slavery and oppression - a trip only they seem entitled to embark on, ESPECIALLY at the expense of those who are not or have never been responsible for it.


 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 244 (view)
 
should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 1/31/2009 5:23:39 PM

huh? where in the hell did you learn that?


I learned that from the blacks and whites where I live. It obviously is a different mindset than where you live. Again, your very narrow guilt tripping philosophy and life experiences are the only ones that matter, and obviously trump all others . Well, I know better, and have experienced it much the same as you, only from a different angle of the rainbow . Somehow, you cannot grasp that, because subconciously you still judge me and view as white, much the same as most blacks do.


a word from our sponsor: you can kiss my ass...


Check out my profile and look at picture #4. I am sandwiched between a German-Irish white cracker on my left, and an Italian on my right.

If you still think want to label me white, then you can kiss MY ass.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 242 (view)
 
should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 1/31/2009 4:59:14 PM

If your history has effected your current condition and created an unequal situation and hostile living environment, then damn right, you better make some noise.



That I am, my friend. Why are you trying to silence me?

I have been called BOOTNIG GER , SANDNIG GER, SAND-BLASTED NIG GER, BOMBTOSSER, CAMEL JOCKEY, SPAGHETTI BENDER, RAGHEAD, SPIC WETBACK,etc. etc, by Germano-Anglo lilly whites far more than I wish to remember.

(It's amazing....you cannot type the "N" word on here, but you can type virtually every other ethnic slur known to man. )

At the same time, blacks see everyone who is not African as white, and stereotypically label them so. This is what the majority of guilt tripping blacks do.That in itself is a most stupid and ignorant mistake.

To blacks and Anglo whites, they see only black and white, not realising that there is a rainbow spectrum ethnic subculture bubbling just below the surface in between these 2 extremes.

I have been held out of line in my work environmentin the 1980s as younger blacks were given super-senority and were able to leapfrog over me to aquire better positions at my workplace. Nevermind that there were more blacks working there than those of my ethnic subculture.

African bloodline descendents ignorantly "whitewash" this whole massive subculture as white. Doing this is very convenient for who wish to perpetuate the everlasting guilt trip of slavery and oppression. It gives them more "non-black" people to spew guilt tripping hate at.

If you want to play the African card, then count me and my North African/Libyan bloodline in. I am obviously as entitled as any other black, and want to go on this carnival ride, too.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 230 (view)
 
should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 1/31/2009 8:59:59 AM

OK your grand pappy came here and made it! wahoo! Yay! he wasn't forced to come here on a slave ship..


...and neither were you, my friend.






UNEQUAL STARTING POINTS..I KEEP SAYING THE SAME DAMNED THING.. AND I'M TIRED OF REPEATING MYSELF..


I will repeat this again: from my grandfathers time, he worked side by side with blacks & other NON WHITE immigrants , many of whomrelocated from the south, both of their races combined into a segregated & oppressed non white bottom-of-the-barrel workforce that had the same severely limited opportunities vs. the majority white population.

Fast- forward to my generation. The grandchildren of these blacks(you) are somehow entitled and given preferential treatment and opportunity over others(me). Their attitudes reflect this newly aquired power and act as though they have won some sort of military battle, taken prisoners, and commence kicking and humiliating these prisoners.

Somehow, it seemed the injustices of their ancestors were amplified, given special attention, and they themselves were given some type of compensation for it, even though they, nor their grandfathers suffered any differently than I, or my grandfather did.

To answer your question of whether the US should apologise, then I will answer YES, only if they apologise AT THE SAME TIME FOR THE INJUSTICES AFFORDED TO THE RAINBOW ETHNIC SUBCULTURE that was also segrated, suppressed, oppressed, & mistreated simultaniously.

There is something fundamentally wrong with giving blanket advantage over a specific group of peoples, at the inevitable and unfair expense of another innocent group.

I have no control over any part of this process, and I wish the collective clingers- to -the -past would admit that THEY are over slavery and stop amplifying and perpetuating otherwise. They do not realise what a tremendous disservice they are doing to their own cause. They need to become part of this inclusive process, rather than causing distress, division and inflamation.
 HOZO
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 224 (view)
 
should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 1/30/2009 9:15:21 AM

Pisses me off when i read that.
As italians are white too.
Ok so they might not be Anglo or protestant, but still white
Especially Northern Italians, white as can be..


Well, I have been called s a n d n i g g e r enough times in my lifetime and been treated differently to know that I cannot pretend to be from the northern European gene pool , either.

The collective local Mr. Hillbilly White Cracker was white, and he made sure to remind me time and again that I was not.

Blacks, on the other hand, ignorantly and automatically labeled me as white. You know, the stupidly familiar hot-button binary black/white issue. Nothing else exists in their world.

I honestly do not know which side despised me more.

I assimilated at the same rate regionally as any young black man my age was able to, that is, to have the same basic tools and opportunity and freedom to make a lifechoice. Random discrimination, namecalling, and occasional isolation were part of my life, much the same as any black I have had the pleasure to aquaint in my adult life.

I have news for you all: We are NOT white, our ancestors did not enslave you, our ancestors did not oppress you, and we do not owe anybody an apology, explanation, or reparation of any kind. If so, you all owe that to us, too.
 HOZO
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 217 (view)
 
should the US apologize for slavery
Posted: 1/30/2009 8:07:48 AM

OK ..this is my last time dealing with immigration. Once again, because of your race, your chances of gaining employment, etc. are easier than a person of color. WHITE AND BLACK sociologists alike generally agree on this. And once again, it shows how your thought process is..Paralyzed..dissonant. If you read what I wrote...I didn't really have a hard life... but REALITY is that because you are Black/Red/Yellow/Brown your life is going to be a little bit harder than a white man's.. REALITY.. Most immigrants come with nothing but are QUICKLY given more opportunities for upward mobility as soon as they set foot on American soil than a person of color..


What a knee jerk, self centred, uninformed and condescending statement.

100 years ago my immigrant minority Mediterranean grandfather came here with borrowed money, took passage in the belly of a cargo ship, arrived in the US, and worked to support himself.

He was not rich nor even middle class - he was poor. He and other minority immigrants worked alongside blacks in coal mines, glass houses, steel mills, etc. and same as the blacks, were restricted to hold only certain menial jobs in these establishments. He had no advantage. He was segregated, same as any black was 100 years ago.

Once self supportive, he sent for his wife, and during the next 40+ years worked this very same job he was segregated to(translation: he was not allowed to advance), built his life, and raised his children in America without anyones help.

These immigrants were self supportive and prospering by the 2nd generation. Barely 30 years after landing here they were contributing to society, all while being typecast, labeled, and segregated otherwise. Despite living in a white Anglo controlled society, they used what tools were available in order to attain what they wanted, and they for the most part, succeeded. White crackers did NOT help him in any way.


My grandparents were treated no differently then any African descendents' grandparents were 100 years ago on this continent. Black Slavery ended in the 19th century. The late 19th century and early 20th century Mediterrenean/Middle Eastern/North African/South American immigrants of my bloodlines filled that void nicely, thank you.

I see how it is no different today to succeed than it was 100 years ago for ANYBODY. If anything, it seems easier since those racial and ethnic barriers have been MOSTLY dissolved. ...for both YOU and ME.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 13 (view)
 
Quitting smoking
Posted: 1/19/2009 6:06:37 PM
I quit in 1986, and what worked for me was bags and bags of Wint-O-Green Lifesavers.
They are very strong flavoured and have a similar sensation of that of menthol cigarettes in your mouth and air passages. They occupy and distract you, which tricks your cravings somewhat.
Inhaling air through your mouth with a Wint-O-Green on your tounge sends that sensation down your throat and into your lungs, much like inhaling. I ate them 24/7 for several weeks. They are only a few calories each so eat as many as you can handle.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 11 (view)
 
Help with a Math problem.
Posted: 12/27/2008 8:07:06 PM
There are 7 girls in a bus...7 girls = 14 legs

Each girl has 7 backpacks....7 girls X 7 backpacks each = 49 backpacks

In each backpack, there are 7 big cats.....49 backpacks X 7 big cats = 343 big cats X 4 legs each = 1372 big cat legs

For every big cat there are 7 little cats......343 big cats X 7 little cats = 2401 little cats X 4 legs each = 9604 little cat legs

Question: How many legs are there in the bus?

9604 little cat legs + 1372 big cat legs + 14 girl legs = 10,990 legs total.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 17 (view)
 
What is the link between European motorcycles and beef???
Posted: 12/12/2008 8:40:50 AM

There are no small US built motorcycles or scooters..... NONE


I tend to agree. I cannot think of any myself, other than Polaris. But I would think China would pose a bigger threat than Europe ever would.

I do not understand the tarriff on this cc class...especially from Europe. There seem to be no Euro bikes being dumped here unfairly to cause this type of legislation.

That practise would be one the Chinese would be guilty of. They are dumping Honda 50 cc to 250 cc single cylinder copycat dirt bikes, minibikes and quads here at far less than wholesale prices. There is no way even the Europeans could be guilty of this.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 16 (view)
 
Cigarettes and Children in Cars
Posted: 11/23/2008 7:40:08 PM

I think it is very selfish, stupid and immoral to smoke around your kids at all. I also think a lot less of a person who is a smoker period. It shows me a real lack of brains that you would knowingly do something so stinky, gross and bad for you (and everyone around you)

I wish smokers would quit whining about the more intelligent non-smokers of the world wanting to breath cleaner air.


This is another fine jewel of the hypocritical double standard practised by the anti smoking crusaders. If it was NOT about their general dislike of tobacco smoke and it was truely about childrens health, we would have had smoking bans in CARS and HOMES( which we still do not have) long before we had smoking bans in BARS and WORKPLACES(which we have had for years now).

They use the tobacco health issue, and now their diabetic Ritalin-saturated children, as a hijacked vehicle to impose their intolerance on others.

Childrens' well-being is a glaringly visible afterthought, only deemed important AFTER the adult anti smoking crusader gets his or her way. How sad.

Children do not go to bars or workplaces . Anti smoking crusaders do, therefore the sad selfish agenda exposed....at the expense of children they hold so precious.

Double standard and hypocritical.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 2 (view)
 
The Environment of China
Posted: 7/22/2008 5:25:08 AM
*BUMP!*
I found this interesting, considering it was posted a year and a half ago. With the Beijing Olympics coming soon, much of this is now in the news, especially the environmental issues.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 70 (view)
 
The House has got to Act
Posted: 7/15/2008 6:13:09 AM
Hello again fellow West Virginian. You and I, as the very few people on this site who actually achieve an average minimum40 mpg from our vehicles, look at this differently.

I do not believe for 1 minute that America will accept a lower speed limit. They will just not accept backwards compatability in this area. I remember what it was like when implemented in the 1970s, and people hated it back then. Today, with such advanced auto technology in such areas as suspension, steering, handling, etc, 55 mph would be the last resort to saving petrol, and an anemic one at that. The savings would be so miniscule as to not be worth the tradeoff.

The solution I would accept would be a standard minimum mpg average. This first needs to be set, and not a SUV standard. There needs to be a sensible fuel saving standard set that most commuter/passenger cars can meet, such as 35 mpg, for example.

Any new auto sold that does not meet this standard should be heavily taxed/excised, same as a luxury tax, with the extra revenue going to alternative energy research, or alternative/electric auto research. At the same time, this extra revenue could be used to subsidise fuel efficient autos, so it would not hurt the industry. They would only switch focus from innefiency to effiency.

This works wonderfully with the anti smoking crusade. Tax tobacco heavily, with the revenue going to tobacco-related areas, whilst at the same time discouraging tobacco use. They accept and condone this. It is working in North America...why not just adopt this concept and apply it to automobile drivers in the same manner as they do smokers and let them make that choice?

Just like cigarettes, money talks, as we are seeing now. Just like $4/pack cigarettes, $4/gallon petrol is making people make the right choices now, finally, but its is not enough. Going from a heavily taxed SUV that gets 12 mpg, to a passenger car that gets 35 mpg is an astronomical gain. On the other hand, changing speed limits only enables the very same SUV that gets 12 mpg to now get 15 mpg. Not nearly good enough, and not worth the hassle of implementation, when the drivers of said vehicles are perfectly capable of acheiving 3 times that, simply by choosing another commuter vehicle.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 122 (view)
 
Run any combustable engine on water this includes any car.
Posted: 7/11/2008 7:17:25 PM
Yes, I too have been following this thread with that very same concept in mind.

I own BMW motorcycles, in particular, a late 1970s 1000 cc model that was the last of the high- compression high -octane motors produced. BMW engineers, in their infinite wisdom, simply bored 900 cc cylinders to 1000 cc, without any other modification to the cylinder casting.

The result was a very hot-running motor, as the extra heat produced was not dissipated adequately with the existing 900 cc cooling fins and cylinder mass. Coupled with the loss of leaded, high octane petrol, these motors had a horrible detonation problem at ambient tempertures above 25 degrees C. Increasing the dwell angle and retarding the timing a few degrees helped, but not nearly enough.

After reading up on the subject, I installed a universal windshield washer kit, retrofitted to spray jets of water into the carbeurator venturi. I mounted the spray nozzles forward in the air intake tube of both carbeurators, aprox. 5 cm from the carb, , pointing towards the venturi. The water reservoir was located under the seat, and the tubing ran from it to the spray nozzles.

Unlike you, Dave, I had no regulating system, so I simply mounted a momentary push button switch on the handlebar near the throttle. When detonation occurred under load, I simply would push the button a few seconds and the washer pump would spray water through the nozzles into the cylinders. The detonation ceased and power was instantly restored, even somewhat of a boost, as you pointed out.

This also had the extra benefit of cleaning carbon deposits from the combustion chamber and spark plugs. Excessive carbon deposits would create "hot spots" that would cause detonation, similar to dieseling. After an initial period of injecting water, the occurance of detonation actually decreased, requiring less water injection to correct it.

The motor simply ran better due to squeaky clean combustion chambers and spark plugs.

I wondered if these adveritised new systems were basic concepts of this, but I believe it is more than simply atomised water. They claim to actually separate the hydrogen molecule through electrolysis, then mix it with the already-atomised petrol. If that is the case, I believe it would work.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 80 (view)
 
What are some important things you should know when you're a musician?
Posted: 6/6/2008 8:09:37 AM
Realising that starting out by putting a band together, writing all your own originals, paying studio time to make an album, then sitting back and waiting to be discovered does NOT work. You have a better chance of hitting Lotto.

You have to pay your dues like the rest of us.....play crappy bars for the door, play cover tunes that you despise, absorb abuse from jaded club owners and staff, and interactwith the general danceclub/pub population, or at least tolerate them , even though they are boorish drunks.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 69 (view)
 
Is U.S.America Rasist? Obama is White
Posted: 6/6/2008 7:38:56 AM
It means that someone like Obama, who is half-white, will only be seen as half-black.


But not to me, nor the millions of others like me. But it seems we, nor our ideals count.

Those in my rainbow ethnic subculture who indentify those as "half black' have been aided by these very same mixed race "half blacks" who themselves eagerly accept and trumpet this brand. They label themselves. We did not invent it.

Perpetuating, amplying, magnifying, and wrapping oneself in this obsolete self serving stereotypical blanket only serves to keep it alive, front and centre.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 66 (view)
 
Is U.S.America Rasist? Obama is White
Posted: 6/6/2008 7:00:37 AM
Mr OBAMA is nothing more than just another 'non-white' on the globe. His parentage speaks for itself.......he's not 100% ANYTHING....black, nor white.......even his 'experience' matriculating in a larger society does not support a clear notion than Mr. Obama has fully participated in the 'black experience'.............that even irks some demagogic so-called 'black leaders'............black folks have always in some sense despised mulattoes......that is factual and inarguable...........many genotypical and phenotypical 'blacks' still harbor racist thoughts in re mulattoes, quadroons, etc......but the same black racists are gleefully happy to 'own' or 'claim' a mulatto or quadroon as 'one of OUR own', when NOTHING could be further from the truth.....

Many, if not downright most of the so-called 'black', successful, noted, visible 'leaders', 'innovators', 'politicians', 'scientists', corporate movers and shakers from a United States historical perspective, were NOT truly 'black' at all............that too should be obvious to any dispassionate, lucid, and sober follower of American history, and current events.

Calling Adam Clayton Powell, Thurgood Marshall, Colin Powell, Harold Ford, Charlie Rangel, Mariah Carey, or Tiger Woods "black" is quite laughable. They are of course more accurately defined as 'non-white', no doubt.

Oprah Winfrey is a 'black woman'...clearly so...and accurately so. Any reasonable person can 'see' that Mariah Carey has nothing in common with Oprah Winfrey.

Michael Jordan is truly 'black'.....no doubt. Tiger Woods mother is ASIAN (Thai born citizen), and his father a mulatto....... any idiot can seen that Mr. Woods has little in common with Mr Jordan, genetically. The same thing could be said about Derek Jeter or the Yankees, and another NBA star, Tony Parker.


This post, and your previous post # 40 is perhaps the MOST accurate common sense description and definition I have seen in these forums so far.

As another NON WHITE, thank you. I couldnt have said it better myself.

Of course, diluted blacks will argue that this is inaccurate, as they are branded BLACK by society, so therefore they readily accept and wear that black nametag conveniently.

Unfortunately, the hypocritical double standard that they practise is, these very same mixed race people likewise blindly label me as WHITE, of which I have learned from whites and my regional society, throughout my life, that I am not.

We are all members of the non-white rainbow ethnic subculture. The above mentioned examples simply happen to have a larger percentage of Nubian blood than I do - that is the only difference. That is all.

If you want to play the African card, count me and my North African/Libyan bloodline in.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 662 (view)
 
Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 5/29/2008 9:21:28 AM
I mean there are more poor Whites in America then Blacks but I don't see people saying Whites need to get a better edcuation and pull themselves up. No, if it is talked about it will be prefaced so that you know exactly what Whites people are talking about and not generalized as if it is the whole white population. Where i'm from I see more Appalachin whites and Hispanics using food stamps.."walking around with full buggies of food" and with at least 2 to 4 kids at the local walmart more than I see blacks.


Thanks. This is a very good point that I have seen most of my life in this region, that is probably not even fathomed in the more densely populated centres of of North America. This is my personal microcosm as a non black minority, and is radically different than the stereotypical inner city or heavily black population centres for obvious reasons.

As I stated before, West Virginia is 94% white, so the roles of the poor folllow this racial trend as expected. But the main point in this unique region is, whites, blacks and other minorities have been and are far closer to eachother in opportunity than many other regions.

In other words, most anybody had the opportunity to labour in these steel mills for decades and decades. These were the higest paying jobs in this limited opportunity area. There always was barely enough eligible population to fill the tens of thousands of manual labour jobs, hence the migration and relocation of blacks and immigrants.

Considering white males make up the large majority of the workforce here, there was always a large segment of that group who did not take advantage of this opportunity. They were the ones who drifted from job to job, never owned a home, lived in poverty, and never made a decent living.

Why? Who knows. Some felt mill work was n i g g e r work, as they said, and it was beneath them. Others had no ambition, as their hillbilly heritage kept them in that 1800s fronteir mode of living on a shoestring in a ramshackle house on property handed down since their ancestors arrived here - in essence the Beverly Hillbillies BEFORE they struck oil.

Still, as astounding as it sounds, this very same toothless white cracker welfare junkie has a certain preconceived inherited notion that he is superior over someone like me, or you. They were here first, they were white, they farmed and hunted the land and they had the righteous ancestral edge.

On the other hand, minority immigrants and relocated southern blacks originally settled here FOR these newly developed steel jobs. They would do any type of work for virtually any wage, no matter how dangerous. They had no choice, no land, nothing. They started from scratch basically.

This is where my region, and therefore my experiences and beliefs, support the "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps". Most anybody of any persuasion was given some sort of tool at some time in their life to better themselves.

As witnessed, some groups did far better than others with roughly the same tools. Whether it was work ethic, personal choice, ambition, or differences of ethnic behavioural philosophies...who knows.


Are Blacks over slavery? Yes, Yes and Yes. We are not living in the past, we are living in the present, looking towards the future and fighting to ensure that the past does not slyly and creep back up under another name. Asking us to forget the past is asking us to forget our history and no one should forget their history. Because those who forget are destined to repeat it.



That is another valid point that rings somewhat true for this region:

West Virginia was born BECAUSE of the slavery issue. It 55 northwestern counties seceding from pro-slavery Virginia, becoming a newly formed state during the Civil War, and aligning itself with the North.

Slavery should never have been a real sticking point with blacks here, due to the fact that their grandfathers, like my grandfather, escaped the past and started anew in a "new world" so to speak, and bid a good riddance to the old way. They had tremendous advantage over the remaining majority southern blacks who could not escape this. There was no entrenched or traditional slave plilosophy here . That was about as level a playing field as one could get back then it seemed.

But I will repeat this again: from my grandfathers time, he worked side by side with these very same blacks, many of who witnessed its wrath before relocating from the south, both of their races combined into a non white bottom-of-the-barrel workforce that had the same severely limited opportunities vs. the majority white population.

Fast- forward to my generation. The grandchildren of these blacks are somehow entitled and given preferential treatment and opportunity over others. Their attitudes reflect this newly aquired power and act as though they have won some sort of military battle, taken prisoners, and commence kicking and humiliating these prisoners.

Somehow, it seemed the injustices of their ancestors were amplified, given special attention, and they themselves were given some type of compensation for it, even though they, nor their grandfathers suffered directly from it.

There is something fundamentally wrong with giving blanket advantage over a specific group of peoples, at the inevitable and unfair expense of another innocent group.

I have no control over any part of this process, and I wish the collectice Rev. Wrights would admit that THEY are over slavery and stop amplifying and perpetuating otherwise. They do not realise what a tremendous disservice they are doing to their own cause. They need to become part of this inclusive process, rather than causing distress, division and inflamation.

Here are a couple quotes from Mr. Wright that serve as perfect examples of what I am trying to say. I find them astoundingly ignorant, racist , and personally and ethnically offensive, amoung other reasons :


It just came to me, within the past few weeks, y'all, why so many folks are hatin' on Barack Obama: He doesn't fit the mold. He ain't white, he ain't rich, and he ain't privileged. Hillary fits the mold. Europeans fit the mold. Giuliani fits the mold. Rich white men fit the mold.



The Romans were rich, the Romans were Italian, which means they were European, which means they were white, and the Romans ran everything in Jesus' country.


These quotes speak for themselves. They obviously need no explanation, especially to someone like me. Therefore....

Historical perspectives aside, hammering everyone who is not black for something that happened 200 years ago has the same effect as hammering me for something the Romans did to Jesus 2000 years ago. This is what Mr. Wright does, and it is absurd. It only serves to rile those like me and cause these undermining but very legitimate amd well-deserved counter attacks.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 660 (view)
 
Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 5/28/2008 8:02:02 AM
The race issue is like that, in many ways.
The only thing we owe one another is the chance to move on. When all those that experienced that past , that horrid reality that could/would/should scar anyone's soul (on both sides of the issue) [are gone], then we will be finally free of it.

If we choose it to be so, we can keep the memories of those things (as we must do) on record - but we can avoid passing the torch that will set our future together aflame.

These are not our battles, thanks to the sacrifices of others we are free of them.


But this will never go away. Prepare yourself for this for the rest of your life, and for the lives of your children. Blacks continue to rub salt into this very wound, and it will never heal, thanks to their legions of Rev. Wrights and the masses of their own kind who fuel his ilk.

Doing this is very convenient for Mr Wright and those blacks who wish to perpetuate the everlasting guilt trip of slavery and oppression - a trip only they seem entitled to embark on, especially at the expense of those who are not or have never been responsible for it.

This has been a most fascinating and eye opening last few pages of this thread for me.

The determined and repeated denial , dismissal, and invalidation of claims of similar oppression of those other than blacks , all whilst standing right beside them , is quite sickening for someone like me.

The philosophies of the collective Rev. Wrights and their legions of supporters have transformed this revisionist historical perspective into a warped one sided crusade that American blacks are the only ones divine enough to carry this staff. All others claims only serve to dilute or distract the limelight of this aura - in essence stealing the thunder that they believe is rightfully theirs alone.

All others are to be silenced, ignored, or discredited at all costs in order to preserve this long-term culmination of advantageous events that have led to this present day scenario.

Because of the Rev. Wrights of today, these are our battles today more than ever. You can meekly stand by, silently aknowleging and perpetuating a conveniently censored version of what is preached to you, or if you know better, you can fight back. Those are everybody's choices.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 654 (view)
 
Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 5/27/2008 11:22:34 AM

If you grew up in a time where whites would crowd around as they lynched blacks for various reasons, with white ministers, police officers, and even small kids present - and then take pictures and make postcards that were openly sent thorough the mail to other whites as a souvenir ?


Once again, the subject gets steered back to the PC binary black/white hot button issue.

Here is another tidbit for the uninformed:




West Virginia was never considered a hotbed of Klan activity, as were states in the Deep South, but it had its share of violence against blacks and immigrants. Forty-eight people, including 28 blacks, were lynched in West Virginia, mostly during the late 1880s and early 1900s, according to the Tuskegee University archives. The last two reported lynchings occurred on Dec. 10, 1931, in Lewisburg, W.Va


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/18/AR2005061801105_pf.html

Of the 48 lynched, 28 were black.

Guess who the other 20 were??

That's right - your friendly neighbourhood immigrant s a n d n i g g e r
a.k.a....my Mediterranean/Middle Eastern/North African/ South American ethnic ancestors.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 651 (view)
 
Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 5/27/2008 10:46:27 AM
tutto bene, paesano

Yes I realise it is regional, but racism is racism, and one race does not have a profound lock on it, nor is it their manifest destiny to perpetuate it at the expense of others likewise.




How, if I may ask, did yours wind up in a place like W.Virginia?? Isn't that mostly real old American (usually Scots-Irish) primarily? There's bound to be a pretty good culture clash there, understandably.


My grandparents, and other non-English immigrants ended up here primarily for the newly-built heavy industry that blossomed along the Ohio River. Steel, coal, glass, clay, etc sprang up and likewise, small towns, camps and villages surrounded these factories. Immigrants, Southern blacks, and poor Southern whites all relocated here to fuel the labour of these industries and escape the collective hardships of their own hells.

Cities like Pittsburgh, Chicago, etc, were far larger, of course, therefore the home of the more well known and oft repeated legends/stories from those areas that most people are familiar with. This area , and hundreds of others like it, were quietly functioning and relatively unheard of.

That was one primary reason for the swell of immigration at the turn of the century. Fortunately for certain groups peoples, the Med. and other non speaking immigrants arrived at the right place at the right time. It was for the very same reason that all of these less fortunate groups were exploited and handily used.

The shit jobs were for them. The good jobs were for Mr. Germano-Anglo-Irish. You were exploited, taken advantage of, swindled, intidimated, bullied, blackmailed, and bargained away for a lower paid immigrant-of-the-month.

I remember the seldom-told terrible stories of my grandparents and can only imagine what it was like back then. As I said, I still experience fragments of it 100 years later.

Somehow though, if you are not black, this does not count historically.





Due to where your people settled. You likely wouldn't have experienced that if you'd grown up in Chicago or NYC or Jersey.


That is another unquestioned truth that I do not understand:

If you are a black living in a large city with large numbers of your own kind, you are considered masses of oppressed peoples.......BUT......

If you are non-black living in a large city with large numbers of your own kind, you are NOT considered masses of oppressed peoples...??


I have news for you all: We are NOT white, our ancestors did not enslave you, our ancestors did not oppress you, and we do not owe anybody an apology, explanation, or reparation of any kind. If anything, you all owe that to us.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 648 (view)
 
Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 5/27/2008 5:31:28 AM
And I invite anyone to take a look through the leadership/executive/management ranks of each of those agencies and see how "specifically African-Americans" have been so well served and are presently so well represented.


They seem to quite nicely be represented far better than those of my multi-ethnic minority subculture. As usual, this topic is conveniently steered right back to the binary black/white issue. THAT issue does not exist for me or my kind.


The bottom line remains that African-American do not enjoy any competitive employment advantage in this country and any efforts from the government to "create" opportunities for such minorities only exist in an effort to counteract the grossly disparate conditions that would continue to exist in the absence of those efforts. You simply cannot compel others to be fair; they have to possess that sense from within.


Anfd neither do I, especially after the failed social experiment called "affirmative action". This validates my eternal complaint: all of the effort expended during this period of preferred advancements, placements, and subsequent trampling of anothers' opportunities, and nothing was gained, you are stressing. I want my proverbial money back.



The undeniable difference between our cases and that of the African slaves' decendants is that, duh, WE are ABLE to assimilate in a generation or two, while they can't. They can't pretend that they're from the northern European gene pool very well with their tell-tale complexion, can they?


Well, I have been called s a n d n i g g e r enough times in my lifetime and been treated differently to know that I cannot pretend to be from the northern European gene pool , either.

The collective local Mr. Hillbilly White Cracker was white, and he made sure to remind me time and again that I was not.

Blacks, on the other hand, ignorantly and automatically labeled me as white. You know, the stupidly familiar hot-button binary black/white issue. Nothing else exists in their world.

I honestly do not know which side despised me more.

I assimilated at the same rate regionally as any young black man my age was able to, that is, to have the same basic tools and opportunity and freedom to make a lifechoice. Random discrimination, namecalling, and occasional isolation were part of my life, much the same as any black I have had the pleasure to aquaint in my adult life.

That is, until the early 1980s. Then the "rules"changed. The rest is history.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 642 (view)
 
Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 5/26/2008 7:47:58 PM
Your own experience, however, is not the same as your grandfather's, since, as you said above, you were classed as a "white man" for promotion considerations; unfortunate for you at that time in history, but nonetheless a different issue from your grandfather's.


I agree, using the ever popular highly selective and exclusionary definitions of what is an opressed minority and what is not. The end results were strikingly similar though, no? Our journies ended at the same repressive destination almost 100 years apart.



My friend Ray Henderson and filmmaker Tony Buba made a highly regarded documentary about blacks in the Pittsburgh area steel industry. Ray worked in the mills and collected the stories of his fellow black mill workers, the old-timers who were there before him


Yes!! The very same black old timers whom my grandfather was segregated with and was treated no differently than!

Pushing one's selfish exclusionary agenda to the forefront whilst ignoring another class of victims...how convenient. Obviously, again, neither my grandfather, nor that victimised ethnic subculture, counts.


Through the years of partial gains and tremendous losses, African-American activists came to trust the government far more than the steel companies. Following a series of lawsuits based on Civil Rights legislation, a consent decree was brokered in 1974 by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC), the United States Department of Justice, nine steel companies and the United Steelworkers of America.

The decree established goals and timetables for the hiring and promotion of minorities, specifically African-Americans, women, and Hispanics; particularly in supervisory, technical, and clerical jobs and management training programs. The decree eliminated department seniority and replaced it with plant-wide seniority as the basis for promotions, demotions, and recalls in the industry.


Thank you for validating my long winded eye witness account of this sad story in my above post. This is the gist of a practise what some here claim as "highly-questionable, to say the least." . Revisionist history is alive and well and conveniently working wonders for a chosen few and their collective agenda.



My grandparents were treated no differently then any African descendents' grandparents were 100 years ago on this continent. Black Slavery ended in the 19th century. The late 19th century and early 20th century Mediterrenean/Middle Eastern/North African/South American immigrants of my bloodlines, in which Mr Wright and his pitiful black colour-blind crybaby culture so demeans, filled that void nicely, thank you.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 635 (view)
 
Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 5/23/2008 9:54:38 AM
I will gladly share information on the subject I floated.Everything I said is/was true. I lived thru it all. I will try to answer these questions by cutting/pasting your queries in form:



Do you mind sharing what part of the country YOU were in, where you witnessed this avalanche of Blacks holding the "coveted higher positions[?]"


It was Weirton Steel, Weirton, WV. USA
I was employed ther from 1976 until it was sold for debt payoff in 2004.


your claim that Blacks were "hired anew" and placed in all these high-paying positions, seems highly-questionable, to say the least.


I suppose that if I am going to make this arguement, I need paperwork to back it up. I actually phoned the former union/employee liasion this morning relating this, looking for documentation of this. He still is alive and working with another local surviving steel union. He informs me there is none, being the company is defunct. The only records would be held by PBGC, or at state and/or federal levels. He has no idea how I could access any info. I related my stories to him and he 100% agrees with all I have said. Do you have any idea?? If so, please let me know, email me privately, I will give you what info I have, so I can make a believer out of you, and also so I can reinforce this arguement in the future.

There is no way someone could make this up. Others who have never been exposed to any of this certainly do not believe. That is my conundrum, and it enrages me even further.

Here are small tidbits to whet your appetite:


Starting in 1983, the parent company sold this steel company. One of the conditions of this sale were that a quota system be put in place because, due to someone's calculations, there was a disparity of percentage between white men, black men, white women and black women.

Keep in mind that I am considered a white man by the company at this point in time!!!

After the recession of the early 1980s, employment fell from 12,000 in the 1970s to around 8,000 in 1984. This is when I was re-hired from being on a nearly 3 year furlough, and this is when they started the minority hiring.

These are union rules. Union rules are colourblind, dealing with senority ONLY. Nobody gets an advantage over anybody for any other reason other than years worked...the playing field is level and fair.

The majority of new hires were black men and women, and white women in order to "catch up" with the the discrepancies of past hiring practises.

Keep in mind that there were already black men/women and white women working , some hired when I was hired, some in the few years after I started, some well BEFORE I started, obviously just not quite enough

By 1986, quotas had been satisfied, but a lawsuit filed on behalf of someone newly hired stated that they were eligible foe "super senority". In other words, those in advanced positions were disproportionately "white male". They only way to break this inequity was to suspend the senority rule and give black men and women "fast track" to these advanced craft and production jobs.

Keep in mind that I am, at this time, still classified as a "white male" and in the bottom 10% of conventional senority, due to my hire date . I am labouring without enough senority yet, but getting close, to bid on craft or production jobs

Starting at a certain predetermined date, ALL new open positions in ALL craft/production jobs were to be filled with any combination of these newly hired..and existing senoir black males/females and white females. They all had the ability to jump over all other employees, regaurdless of senority status or education, and fill these voids. Nobody else was eligible.



The reality, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, is that it's REALLY about education. Decent schools produce a competitive workforce.


This is a steel mill we are talking about. High school diploma required. that is all.
Remember:

~ this is West Virginia.

~The population of the whole state is well under 2 million.

~94% white,
4% black
1% other(thats me)

~There were no seperate black schools. Due to sparse population, all county schoools were consolidated. We ALL had NO choice of school. ALL blacks, whites, etc. went to the same school(s). The graduation rates were virtually the same across the racial board.

/\/\/\ This may very well be the stark difference between our arguements. You are using well worn popular large and inner city stats in your shaping and influence of this subject. I am from the other side of this coin.....this is new to you. This is another world here...believe me. This region is predominately WHITE. The local black neighbourhoods/areas differed only slightly from those similar heavily ethnic neighbourhoods/areas. I see about as much difference in me vs. a local black as I see in a local white.

Anyhow, these craft and production advanced positions needed specialised training. The company provided all the training. All you needed was that high school diploma and enough senority to lock the job....normally.

Again, union rules kept the playing field level. If someone were hired who had advanced education, he or she could NOT be given priveledge over any other because of said education. He/she had to use the bid/senority process, the same as others.

I laboured with men and women who were pursuing their degrees at local community colleges. Others were pursuing Masters degrees, working labour positions alongside me, due to their insignifigant senority, but enjoying the upscale union wages and benefits. They had the education to perform these advanced jobs, but could not or never be allowed to leapfrog into the positions over me and all others. They mostly were just passing thru .

Very near my work area was a department which dealt with the maintenance and repair of all refrigeration units in the mill. I had befriended some in that dept. and ate lunch there and also used their shower/restroom facilities.

For some reason, out of the 20 or so employees of that dept., there were no blacks or women. A decree was issued and stated that no less than three(3) new hirees into that shop were to be minority.

These job openings were held open until a qualifying minority accepted it. In other words, the dept worked shorthanded and had to force overtime on the others to make manpower needs. This went on for some months.

The first 2 openings were finally taken by existing blacks who were hired well before me and were older than I was, but still, like me, did not have enough conventional senority to land this job. They accepted, took the schooling , and after 2 or more years, were promoted to full qualified position.

Keep in mind that they leapfrogged over all others who, like them, were subject to conventional hiring practises. They wer not discriminated against, as they were hired far before me, processed as any other employee was in the 1970s and used their senority to pick and choose which job they were able to aquire. I am, still classified as a "white male" and in the bottom 10% of conventional senority, due to my hire date . I am labouring without enough senority yet, but getting close, to bid on these type of craft or production jobs


The 3rd job took several years to fill. In 1986, a newly hired black women was, in essence strong armed into accepting this position. She really did not want this type of work, but the powers saw her as a 2 for 1(black and female).

She was newly hired and still on the 90 day probationary period, as any other empolyee was. She was given notice that she could sign this bid, and as soon as she had her 90 days worked, she could become a refrigeration apprentice.

On her 91st day, this happened.

Keep in mind that I now had nearly 10 YEARS senority. I am still labouring , waiting to bid of a craft job. My window of opportunity is here.....but is being blocked by this practise

This practise went on for several years company wide. We are talking hundreds, perhaps thousands of openings in a company whose employment was steadily dropping due to economic factors. These jobs were on a platter for the taking for blacks and women, but they did not want many of these jobs.

Blacks would come and go freely on these positions. they would work a while, go thru the schooling, become disillusioned, and move to another job....so the position had to start anew and wait for another black to accept. No one else was eligible.

It was not their"cup of tea" so to speak. I do not blame them one bit for that...many of those jobs were not my cup of tea either. This is a steel mill. It sucks.

But nevertheless, I could not take ANY of these vacant positions. By the early 1990s, enough blacks were either hired, or accepted these positions and the agreement was fulfilled and retired. It was back to conventional senority rule from then on..

Keep in mind that I now had nearly 15 YEARS senority....BUT I am still labouring , waiting to bid of a craft job. My window of opportunity has passed, because of the steady downturn in the industry. When this practise was started in the early 1980s, there were 8,000 employees. Now we are down to half that number. Layoffs and downsizing are the rule of the day. New craft and production bids do not exist.

Employees are holding fast and treading water at best. All of the fasttracked black employees, like their similar white senior counterparts, are enjoying their advanced jobs, making double the wage I am and also nicely padding their retirement, and have the added protection of craft status, that is, due to the education required by their positions, that can NOT be reduced to a labour position....they MUST be placed somewhere else where their company-paid education will benefit.



In fact, a VERY credible argument can be made that affirmative action did WAY more to address discrimination grievances of White WOMEN than it did Blacks of either gender! In fact, a cursory glance -- EVEN TODAY -- at the supervisory, management, and executive ranks of virtually any domestic company of your choosing will evince that the "coveted, [higher-paying]" positions reflect very little African-American representation and are filled overwhelmingly by White men and women!


I fully agree, as you can see if you have been following my story. The problem that I have is, addressing discrimination grievances seemed to only work at the expense of people like me.

I did not discriminate against anyone, but was penalised for it. How can you not see that?


I was still doing the same job I started here doing...labour. There were still blacks and women working with me....having taken advantage of all these special offers, deciding it wasnt for them, and ending up right back where they started....labouring with me.

This went on until early 2004 when the company finally shut down. The only difference for me was that my boss and HR director were both black and the area manager was a female. I was still doing the same job 27 years later....just like my grandfather.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 633 (view)
 
Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 5/22/2008 10:58:25 AM
As such, the perhaps innocuous and well-intended efforts of the descendants of other ethic emigrants -- at comprehending the chronic social crises of Black America by comparing the experiences of their forefathers-- are invalid and far too simplistic to be of any value


What another knee jerk, uninformed and condescending statement.

Its value is priceless to me. I am the carrier of the memories of that specific forefather.
I plainly remember his last 20 or so years of his life vividly. He was finally able to retire in the early1960s from that job that he was ALLOWED to hold in 1915, working alongside blacks and other various foreign speaking immigrants, all of whom had no chance to advance.

The thing I remember most about him was that he reminded me of a stereotypical elderly black sharecropper in his attitude. This is hard to explain to white people who have not expereinced any sort of this lifelong prejudice and how it affects someones outlook on life, but I will try.

He had a sense of self dignity, but seemed tempered severely, from years of being typecast and pidgeonholed, specifically due to his ethnic background. He had a sense of accomplishment of successfully raising his family and holding a long term job, but that attitude only came forth to those close to him.

In essence, he was a marked man, who looked over his shoulder and knew his boundaries and limitations. He dare not, even in old age, rile his "masters".

In the predomidently white area I grew up in, he was an ostracised peculuarity, due to the fact that he was not Anglo white, looked very different from the locals, and he still barely spoke English and had no formal education. He could not freely converse with the white Anglo population, belong to any of their social organisations, and after all those decades of living in America, still was not accepted. He was from another world, another time, all the time never really able to fully integrate into White America.

Sound familiar?? Sounds like a black sharecropper's story. I listened to his stories, and I could write a book.

I watched this from wence I came of age in the mid 1960s until his death in 1980.
It was hard to comprehend, due to the fact that I was fairly well integrated.

With all due respect to my friend and fellow Mediterranean xNEROx, his father came here AFTER this turbulent period. I have befriended Cosenzans in my area who also emigrated in the mid 1960s. It was VERY different for them, so much so that there is virtually no comparision. Due to the difference in attitude(now vs. then), they can integrate easily.

By the time this change finally came, it was too late for my grandfather.

Coincedentally, and as a result of this change, I was no different in the 1970s and beyond as any black man my age was during that time period. I worked alongside black and white men my age in this very same steel mill my grandfather worked and shared the same type of ethnic and racial discrimination my black friends did....the slurs, the attitude, etc.

During this time period, blacks had a newly aquired form of protection in the form of quotas. Jobs were being held open for them, so in essence, I was re-living the same fate as my grandfather, being held to a labour position whilst blacks were hired anew and placed into craft and higher paying production jobs. Once the dust settled, I was locked into this menial job, just the same as my grandfather, while younger blacks held the coveted higher positions.

So, with these great iron curtains of discrimination mostly lifted, young men AND women of any colour had in the 1970s, and have today far far more opportunity than my grandfather, or likewise, a black sharecropper could have ever dreamed of. All you must do is take advantage of it. This is easier now more than ever.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 624 (view)
 
Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 5/21/2008 11:09:43 AM

we should really dispel with the farcical implication that we ARE being "fair," and that the difference between those who exist in squalid despair and those who have a real shot at living a decent middle-class life is something as simple as "hard work and perseverance."


What a knee jerk, uninformed and condescending statement.

100 years ago my immigrant minority Mediterranean grandfather came here with borrowed money, took passage in the belly of a cargo ship, arrived in the US, and worked to support himself.

He was not rich nor even middle class - he was poor. He and other minority immigrants worked alongside blacks in coal mines, glass houses, steel mills, etc. and same as the blacks, were restricted to hold only certain menial jobs in these establishments. He had no advantage. He was segregated, same as any black was 100 years ago.

Once self supportive, he sent for his wife, and during the next 40+ years worked this very same job he was segregated to, built his life, and raised his children in America without anyones help.

These immigrants were self supportive and prospering by the 2nd generation. Barely 30 years after landing here they were contributing to society, all while being typecast, labeled, and segregated otherwise. Despite living in a white Anglo controlled society, they used what tools were available in order to attain what they wanted, and they for the most part, succeeded.

I see how it is no different today to succeed than it was 100 years ago for ANYBODY. If anything, it seems easier since those racial and ethnic barriers have been mostly dissolved. If you or your descendents are STILL living off the government, I can find no other explanantion other than it being your own fault due to your own behaviour, blaming your upbringing for expecting your own personal saviour to come to your aid.

When I see nearly 30% of my meager paycheque go to taxation, then see multitudes of ungrateful recipients of assistance, of which whom I am unwittingly their personal saviour, their only job being that of birthing multitudes of children, take advantage of me, I cannot help but think back to my grandparents. Why didn't they just go on welfare??
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 23 (view)
 
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 5/19/2008 5:59:07 PM
Well, I am Greek, Turk, Libyan and Brasilian, and I DONT consider myself "Caucasian", and neither do most "Caucasians" I know consider me one of their kind.

The popular definition of "Caucasion" has been changed, blurred, and redefined in lilly white 21st century North America. The classifications have socially morphed and THAT is what you/we deal with in our lifetime.

Years of being singled out and treated differently led me to the point I am today as someone who quite doesnt fit into "Caucasian" North America. I accept the "Middle-Eastern" moniker readily. Unfortunately, there STILL are stark differences in races and ethnic groups.

Blacks do not realise this difference. Most blacks I have had contact with look at race in a black and white binary spectrum only. If you are not black, then you are either Euro white or Asian to most of them. There is no other view.

In actuality, many blacks have more Caucasian "white" blood in them than I do. I am roughly the same skin tone as Obama or Beyonce`, for example, but they are considered black, while I would certainly be lumped into the white category by both of them , I bet, even though I have North African blood. That is just plain wrong to me, so yes, call me Middle-eastern, because I am certainly not "Caucasian" enough to fit the definition of mainstream North America.

We can argue semantics all day, but at the end of that day, I am classified differently than Mr. Germano-Anglo, who is considered mainstream Caucasian. That is it, in a stereotypical nutshell, with or without scientific notation.

To put it another way, as I am getting the crap slapped out of me in an alley by skinheads, I am quite sure that claiming "fellow Caucasian" will not cause them to cease and desist.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 53 (view)
 
Why do people think the bad stuff is bad for you?
Posted: 5/12/2008 8:01:51 PM
Cigarette smoking causes 87 percent of lung cancer deaths (1). Lung cancer is the leading cause of cancer death in both men and women (3). Smoking is also responsible for most cancers of the larynx, oral cavity and pharynx, esophagus, and bladder. In addition, it is a cause of kidney, pancreatic, cervical, and stomach cancers (2, 4), as well as acute myeloid leukemia (2).


Scare statistics at their best!

All in all, lung cancer death rates are average about 500 per 100,000 AT AGE 79, SMOKER or NON-SMOKER. Doesnt matter.


http://seer.cancer.gov/faststats/sites.php?site=Lung+and+Bronchus+Cancer&stat=Mortality

Lung cancer is responsible for .5% (one-half of 1 percent!)of ALL deaths at age 79. Hardly epidemic proportions that we are led to believe, considering average North American life expectency is 77.

As far as those measly 500 deaths per 100,000, smoking is responsible for for about half (250)of those deaths. But RADON comes in a close second at around 150 deaths of those 500 per 100,000. The other top 10 factors account for remaining 100 deaths of that 500 per 100,000 total.
What on earth are the other 99.5%, or 99,500 people dying from?? That would concern me more.


Kidney, pancreatic, cervical, stomach cancers and acute myeloid leukemia, etc are an even smaller number than these wildly popular, but misused lung cancer stats - a mere fraction of annual deaths. But, presented in a certain way, they are very effective in garnering a certain response.


Considering roughly 25% of the population smoke, this shows what a non-issue this really is, despite the best efforts of anti smoking crusaders to scare the hell out of everyone.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 40 (view)
 
Why do people think the bad stuff is bad for you?
Posted: 5/8/2008 7:07:04 PM
Cigarette smoking causes 87 percent of lung cancer deaths


Yes, and it peaks at age 79. 79!! They are garnering these stats all the way to age 84. How long is one expected to live if one does NOT smoke? There are no 20,30,40 year olds dying from smoking. There are plenty of 50,60,70 year olds dying from a myriad of self-inflicted causes. Smoking happens to be one of them, of course.

Example: A 79 year old smoker is dying of lung cancer in a hospice.

His 82 year old non-smoking roommate is dying of prostate cancer.

Who wins? BOTH. The both surpassed the average lifespan.

One thing is for sure....the smoker surely did not lose. He just did not live a few more years longer in order to die from some other agonising affliction, like his roommate, that old age brings.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 47 (view)
 
Reverend Wright slurs Italians
Posted: 4/29/2008 6:46:27 PM
It's in the second part where you go way off the rails ... because: 'looked down their garlic noses' is not actually an insult but an observation, perhaps not a particularly kind observation, but still an observation that might be challenged, or debated as to factual accuracy; .....


Well, then, using your logic, my observation is that this sorry-assed flat-nosed racist should stop flapping his big niqqer lips.

Hey!! its an observation...not a racist insult, remember??

It is funny how you cannot type the "N" word, but you can type almost every Italian slur on here. Amazing.

You are obviously not Italian, or even remotely Mediterranean. Please do NOT speak for us.
Vada dormire`.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 91 (view)
 
smoking bans
Posted: 4/17/2008 6:57:51 PM
/\/\/\ YES. RADON is the 2nd leading cause of lung cancer. If you don not smoke, it is your LEADING cause of lung cancer.


All in all, lung cancer death rates are average about 500 per 100,000 AT AGE 79, SMOKER or NON-SMOKER. Doesnt matter.

Theres such a small difference in lung cancer statistics between smokers & non-smokers below age 40 that its not even graphed. Theres a nice layout graph on the National Cancer Institute site :

http://seer.cancer.gov/faststats/sites.php?site=Lung+and+Bronchus+Cancer&stat=Mortality

Whether smoker or non smoker, the graph maintains a statistical zero per 100,000 until it reaches the age 35-39 bracket. At that age its only a few per 100,000. It really starts to climb steadily at 60 and peaks at age 79.


Lung cancer is responsible for .5% of ALL deaths at age 79. What on earth are the other 99.5%, or 99,500 people dying from?? That would concern me more.

Hardly epidemic proportions that we are led to believe, considering average North American life expectency is 77.

As far as those measly 500 deaths per 100,000, smoking is responsible for for about half (250)of those deaths. But RADON comes in a close second at around 150 deaths of those 500 per 100,000. The other top 10 factors account for remaining 100 deaths of that 500 per 100,000 total.

When looked at it that way, why is there this hysteria over tobacco, whilst the dangers of RADON are virtually unknown to the general public?? I know the answer to that one.

Are anti-smoking crusaders ever concerned that they perhaps breathed RADON in their homes where their precious children live?? I dont think so. Little do they realise that they have breathed far more RADON than 2nd hand smoke in their lifetimes.


You should still have the choice to smoke in your house, but other than that, the government has a duty to protect the other people and the environment...

......I do think though that they should ban smoking in cars while kids are present




This is another fine jewel of the hypocritical double standard practised by the anti smoking crusaders. If it was NOT about their general dislike of tobacco smoke and it was truely about childrens health, we would have had smoking bans in CARS and HOMES long before we had smoking bans in BARS and WORKPLACES.

They use the tobacco health issue, and now their diabetic Ritalin-saturated children, as a hijacked vehicle to impose their intolerance on others.

Childrens' well-being is a glaringly visible afterthought, only deemed important AFTER the adult anti smoking crusader gets his or her way. How sad.

Children do not go to bars or workplaces . Anti smoking crusaders do, therefore the sad selfish agenda exposed....at the expense of children they hold so precious.

Double standard and hypocritical.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 76 (view)
 
Is Obama in trouble with the Reverend?
Posted: 3/30/2008 6:00:35 PM
Hmmm. well your post is interesting. But I'm wondering...who are the "you" that "owe that to us," AND who are the "us," because you have established that you don't consider yourself particularly easily categorized (for lack of a better word)? And why might the "you" owe reparation to the "us"?

I was into the first part of your post, and then you lost me.


I sort of ended that thought prematurely. I meant that, if blacks expect reparations, apologies, and explainations, then likewise "we", the rainbow ethnic spectrum subculture, automatically expect them, too.

My grandparents were treated no differently then any African descendents' grandparents were 100 years ago on this continent. Black Slavery ended in the 19th century. The late 19th century and early 20th century Mediterrenean/Middle Eastern/North African/South American immigrants of my bloodlines, in which Mr Wright and his pitiful black colour-blind crybaby culture so demeans, filled that void nicely, thank you.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 73 (view)
 
Is Obama in trouble with the Reverend?
Posted: 3/28/2008 8:01:30 PM
How sensitive is too sensitive? Is there such a thing as reading all this stuff too closely? Rabidly looking for how the guy insulted your particular group?


That is exactly what Mr Wright and the majority of blacks do. Ask them.


I mean... I'd always thought of Italians as 'white'... is that an insult too? Who are the 'white' people then? Only the anglo-saxons? Are such definitions really of any value to anyone?


Well, considering that I mentioned in another thread that I have been called BOOTNI&&ER , SANDNI&&ER, SAND-BLASTED NI&&ER, BOMBTOSSER, CAMEL JOCKEY, SPAGHETTI BENDER etc. etc, by Germano-Anglo lilly whites far more than I wish to remember, I am obviously not white to a fair percentage of those who share your bloodlines .

At the same time, blacks see everyone who is not African as white. This is what Mr. Wright and the majority of blacks do.That in itself is a most stupid and ignorant mistake.
To blacks and Anglo whites, they see only black and white, not realising that there is a rainbow spectrum ethnic subculture bubbling just below the surface in between these 2 extremes. African bloodline descendents ignorantly "whitewash" this whole massive subculture as white. Doing this is very convenient for Mr Wright and those blacks who wish to perpetuate the everlasting guilt trip of slavery and oppression.

I have news for you all: We are NOT white, our ancestors did not enslave you, our ancestors did not oppress you, and we do not owe anybody an apology, explanation, or reparation of any kind. If anything, you all owe that to us.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 67 (view)
 
Is Obama in trouble with the Reverend?
Posted: 3/27/2008 10:49:11 PM
So... the BIG DEAL there is that he's equating the Romans with the Italians? Do Italians not like to claim ancient Rome as part of their history? (I really don't know)


YES, that is the big deal....it is a blatant racist stereotype AND also ignorant. He is pidgeon-holing, scapegoating and fire branding a certain ethnicity, even though he does not understand their history, and demeans their present day bloodline lineage - even though that very bloodline has changed drastically in these past 2000 years.

The Romans 2000 years ago were NOT Italian. They were the offspring of Greek, Tarquin, Etruscan, and Phoenecian blood.

SOME Italians today are PART Roman, and also Norman, German, French, Swiss and other NORTHERN European bloodlines.

In all actuality, Mr Wright has MORE white Anglo blood in him than I, or any Roman had, since he is quite obviously a half breed. Using his very own reasoning, I can call him a white cracker potato-eating slave owner, since his white bloodline were slaveowners most likely.


Was it the reference to them having 'garlic noses'?

Is it because he's saying the Romans 'lynched' Jesus?
Isn't that pretty much what happened? He didn't exactly get a fair trial...


But that is not my fault, nor is it of anyone living today. So why does he exhibit typical racist behaviour by rubbing it in the faces of those he deems "Garlic-noses"?


I really don't see how it 'smears Italians'... but then I'm not Italian.


Exactly. You are white....like a fair percentage of Rev. Wright's ethnicity. You have the real possibility of being related to his white Anglo ancestor slave owners. I do not.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 100 (view)
 
Barack Obama’s longtime pastor.
Posted: 3/16/2008 7:07:43 PM
Quoting the sorry-ass racist Wright:




Jesus was a poor black man who lived in a country and who lived in a culture that was controlled by rich white people.


Sorry, there were no "rich white people" in the Middle east 2000 years ago. Rich white people were living in EUROPE




The Romans were rich, the Romans were Italian, which means they were European, which means they were white, and the Romans ran everything in Jesus' country.


Moron. The Romans were offspring of Greek, Tarquin, Phoenecian and Etruscian peoples. Hardly white....darker than Obama.....but to him, WHITE.





It just came to me, within the past few weeks, y'all, why so many folks are hatin' on Barack Obama: He doesn't fit the mold. He ain't white, he ain't rich, and he ain't privileged. Hillary fits the mold. Europeans fit the mold. Giuliani fits the mold. Rich white men fit the mold.


OK...if Guilani fits the mould, then Obama also fits the mould. They are both light-skinned ethnic minorities....not WHITE.



Hillary never had a cab whiz past her and not pick her up because her skin was the wrong color. Hillary never had to worry about being pulled over in her car as a black man driving in the wrong ne— I am sick of Negroes who just do not get it."



I, too am sick of Negroes like him who just do not get it.

According to his tunnel-visioned view of the world, Blacks are black, and EVERYONE ELSE is white. Idiot.

If, according to him, Jesus was a "poor black man" then he was an Ethopian Jew. History suggests otherwise, but it seems to suit him to twist this to fit his agenda.

Sorry to inform you, but I have been called BOOTNI&&ER , SANDNI&&ER, SAND-BLASTED NI&&ER, BOMBTOSSER, CAMEL JOCKEY, SPAGHETTI BENDER etc. etc, far more than I wish to remember. You certainly do NOT have a lock on this slur.

I am roughly the same skin tone as Obama.

I share bloodlines with the likes of Guiliani, Jesus, and others from that olive-skinned part of the world that this idiot labels as WHITE EUROPEAN.

Please shut up, get off the stage, and let other opressed peoples have their chance to speak now. You have had far more of your share at dominating this subject, whilst supressing others likewise. Your time is up.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 318 (view)
 
No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 2/23/2008 4:47:38 PM
Yes I can show you where your math is wrong. Simply because you're ignoring other factors.


I truely understand your thought process in this, but remember, that 440,000 is the key figure here that caught my eye and led me to crunch numbers to try to see how it is attained. It plugs perfectly into this scenario I show. If not, I never would have even posted it. I am either right, or it is a DaVinci code -type profoundly uncanny coincidence that it all adds up perfectly. Which is it??


If a smoker dies in a car accident, he won't have died of smoking, so where does the extra death come from?

The pool of smokers

But that pool of smokers is a fixed constant in this annual statistical snapshot. At the time of the snapshot, it is about 20-25% of the population, or about 70-75 million people. Any fluctuations matter not; it is a snapshot. So any extra death from that pool of smokers will only reduce the original 440,000, because if a current smoker dies in an accident, he cannot be a once, or future smoking stat. The only way to sustain that stat is to add people like me to it when I die.

That is one reason this bloated 440,000 stat raised my eyebrows. Of course every smoker doesnt die from smoking as you pointed out, and as we all know. That should reduce the 440,000 even further, but it doesnt, does it?
Neverless, there is a fixed amount of smokers. non smokers, and causes of death spread amongst them in this annual statistical snapshot. These are constants that do not change.


One of the reasons for the shrinking population of smokers is that older ones die, and efforts have been made to reduce the recruitment of new smokers from the young.


That is a fluid variable in this sea of constants and cannot apply - we are dealing with snapshot statistics....fixed amounts in a stastical formula.

Lets crunch the numbers a different way:

The fixed amounts are:
2.5 million deaths US per year


According to the CDC, circa 2004;

Number of deaths for leading causes of death
Heart disease: 652,486
Cancer: 553,888
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 150,074
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 121,987
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 112,012
Diabetes: 73,138
Alzheimer's disease: 65,965
Influenza/Pneumonia: 59,664
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 42,480
Septicemia: 33,373

These add up to about 1.9 million. If the rest of the smaller causes were listed, it would be a bit more than 2 million. Add in the bloated figure of the smokers' 440,000, and you magically end up with....

2.5 million!!

It still adds up perfectly.

Essentially you're forgeting that while x=A+B+C+D Smokers are not in fact x, nor are they A,B ,C or D, they're a third group, a subset of the entire population, which also dies from A, B, C, and D.


So you are saying a smoker's death can count for more than 1 death cause?? If a smoker died of heart disease, he would be listed as a smoking AND a heart disease death both?? Then the numbers in these stats would NOT add up here.
None of the individual death stats would add up to 2.5 million, as it does correctly here.

That is because , as I pointed out, if you touched a cigarette to your lips, then die of a heart attack 45 years later, you are a smoking stat. Your twin brother is identical to you, weighs the same, dies of the same health problems as you, but never touched a cigarette to his lips, and dies the same day as you, he is considered a heart disease stat.

That is the only way it can work with these provided numbers, otherwise these stats would mean absolutely nothing. They would be just numbers assembled haphazardly and without formulation, assigned at the whim of the designated assigner.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 310 (view)
 
No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 2/22/2008 3:43:07 PM
And that is what I have done sir. I have applied logic to your chosen stats, and have only shown that it shows that every smoker dies from smoking, due to the way these stats are abused. Remember, I didnt raise the stat...it merely raised my eyebrows.

Of course, you stating that you are a doctor only furthers my belief in this agenda of abuse. It is because of a doctor that I am considered a smoker, even though I dont smoke.

I smoked in my youth. When I applied for employment when I was 18, I was asked if I smoked, and I said yes to him. I am now branded a smoker for the rest of my life, my medical history shows that I smoked, no matter how brief it was...that is no matter. My insurance rates are different than that of a "non smoker"...which I am. The important thing is that I touched a cigarette to my lips. Organised medicine will not pardon that charge. That is the timeless firebrand that is my albatross, and at the same time is your statistical treasure trove .

No matter that I spent 25+ years in a filthy steel mill, if I die of lung cancer, it will be due to touching a cigarette breifly to my lips. Whether I like it or not, I will surely be one of those 440,000 "smoking causation" deaths. That is not my choice - that is your's and the CDCs choice.

Heart disease runs rampant in my NON SMOKING family. I, so far at 50, have outlived a paternal uncle, maternal great grandfather, and am soon to overtake a paternal grandfather and my own father, all non smokers, all who died from heart disease prematurely.

Why are they not smoking statistics, but I am destined to be?? Whatever I die from, it will be twisted into a smoking statistic. Extrapolate that into every smoker, and THAT is how you , or the CDC, can come up with the 440,000. If you have ever touched a cigarette to your lips, you are automatically a smoking statistic. That is the only way. Correct me NOW if I am wrong, and show me how it is wrong, because I know of no other magical mathematical equation to show otherwise.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 308 (view)
 
No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 2/22/2008 7:53:15 AM
Your math is wrong, it assumes that every person who dies who smoked dies from smoking related illnesses.


That is the beauty of this post. The math is surely not wrong, double check it. Triple check it. Prove the equation backwards.
x + y = z
z = y + x
y = z - x
x = z - y
It only proves this glaring and misleading stat is wrong, as you state. It shows that, according to this astoundingly untrue stat, EVERY smoker is dying from smoking, and even the most ardent anti sm0ker knows this is wrong.


Annual deaths in the US by causation....

Cigarettes - 440,000
Automobiles - 42,366
Second Hand Smoke - 35,000
Guns - 29,338



The other half of that post shows the intended spin to try to show that smoking is somehow an out of control, epidemic plague by not only blatantly parroting a skewed smoking stat as shown, but also grouping it with those stats that are so much less as to brand the skewed smoking number to look shockingly large in order to garner a reaction .

The most disturbing part of it is grouping a CORRELATION stat in with CAUSATION stats. Smoking stats are correlation, not causation. This is typical agendist behaviour.

Example: If you die in a fiery car crash, you are an automobile statistic. The fatal crash CAUSED your death. CAUSATION

If you smoke and die of a heart attack, smoking can be attributed as a CORRELATING factor. It did not CAUSE your heart disease. CORRELATION.

This is where the agendists get part of that 440,000 number. That is an insulting abuse of stats.

Because, if you never smoked, you will still probably die from heart disease. But if you never step into an auto, you will never die in a fiery car crash.

You cannot mix different groupings of stats to further your agenda. The math exposes this deceit and proves it wrong.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 305 (view)
 
No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 2/21/2008 9:17:39 PM

Annual deaths in the US by causation....

Cigarettes - 440,000



I am astonished at the deceit shown of those who skew numbers, and gullibility and stupidity those who are duped by them.

OK, DO THE MATH
20-25% of the population smoke

= about 70-75 million smokers

US death rate = 8.3/1000

= about 2.5 million/year.

20-25% of them smoked.

= 450,000, = about 20% of all deaths....DUH..

20% of the population smoke, and they account for 20% of the deaths.
If that is the case, then...

NEWS FLASH:
20% DEATHS ARE THE 20% WHO SMOKE
80% OF DEATHS ARE THE 80% WHO DONT SMOKE

DUH. Using this logic, more people die from NOT smoking. LOL
If nobody smoked, then 0% of deaths would be caused by smoking,
and 100% of deaths would be caused by.....DEATH perhaps??
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 26 (view)
 
prepaid cell phone programs
Posted: 1/29/2008 12:59:23 PM
I also use a TracPhone. $15 to buy the phone, airtime cards ranging from $20 upwards and they have a 90 day value I believe.. The more minutes you buy, the less cost per minute.When I bought mine they had a deal where you got 240 minutes and 1 year activation for $99. No monthly bills, no contracts, no hidden fees.

Even if I used all my minutes in that 1 year(I didnt) the phone is still active for 1 year. That means when you add more minutes, it also adds an extra 90 days to that 1 year timeframe for each airtime card bought.

So for me, it costs a max of about $100/year to have a working cel phone strapped to me at all times.

The key is whether you are going to be a cel phone addict, or just use it when needed.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 157 (view)
 
Do you drive an SUV and why?
Posted: 1/29/2008 12:35:33 PM
Hozo takes the talking stick:




Let's take the easy example. A single person that owns a truck and can't get rid of it because of the 1% of the time it is needed to haul something, although they would very much like to ALSO own a tiny little hybrid coming out that gets over 50 mpg. The proposition is not affordable because most insurance companies effectively DOUBLE the auto insurance rate for an additional vehicle. This does vary slightly from one company to the next and it is not always double, but it is substantial.


You, like me, are one of the very few SUV owners that owns an honest-to-goodness EFFICIENT SUV. We are the 1%.

That is the problem with SUV owners I believe - They utilise the SUV function 1% of the time. The other 99% of the time they are merely hauling their breifcase back and forth to work, or hauling 3 bags of groceries with a Cadillac Escalade or GMC Yukon at the expense of a 60 month auto loan, full coverage insurance and 10 MPG. Teutonic overkill.

My insurance company has primary vehicle coverage, and pleasure vehicle coverage. Primary is for your work and everyday vehicle, whilst pleasure status has limited driving and mileage restrictions.

Pleasure status is a full 35% cheaper than primary coverage, due to less mileage and less use. My restrictions on my "pleasure" vehicles are: less than 7500 miles per year, and less than 30 miles/week to work or school. Also my insurance company offers a discount for having more than 1 vehicle insured with them.

Do the math: if you buy a used Geo Metro for $1000 that gets 45 MPG and use it as your primary commute vehicle :

A. You only have to get liability insurance, since there is no loan on the vehicle and the vehicle isnt high value. My liability insurance is less than $400/year using this method.

B. Convert your SUV to "pleasure" status, saving 35% on your existing insurance. Use it when needed. It only makes sense.

C: Realise tremendous fuel cost savings by using the fuel efficient Geo, which pays for itself and the extra insurance with this savings, whilst preserving your shiny pricy 4WD status symbol for necessary driving.

This is what I do. My primary vehicle is a Ford Aspire(40 mpg). My SUV Geo Tracker(25-30 mpg) is pleasure status. Win-win situation.

Hozo passes the Talking Stick
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 5 (view)
 
mustang convertible top
Posted: 1/24/2008 11:26:10 AM
I have a 1993 Geo Metro Ragtop and have been using Son Of aGun! spray from STP for years. It comes in a yellow aerosol can and is available at most places, Wal mart, Pep Boys, etc. . So far so good as far as to the condition of this 15+ year old ragtop.

It sprays out in a thick foam that bubbles up and soaks into the surface. I then rub it in and wipe it all down with a damp terrycloth washcloth.

SonOfaGun is made for tyres, as it is a 1 step tyre care product, saying that it cleans, shines and protects. I use it both on the tyres and ragtop after washing my car. It gives a nice shine to the tyres and a lustre to the ragtop. I believe the rubber in tyres and the vinyl in a ragtop are sort of related material-wise.

Even after washing, the washcloth still has some dirt in it from the product cleaning and lifting what the wash missed, and it leaves a soft feel after it dries.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 29 (view)
 
What kind of guitar strings do you use?
Posted: 1/23/2008 6:26:34 PM
I suppose I am the only one here that uses Fender Super Bullets.....009-.040

I learned the hard way with My Fender guitars using ball end strings. These guitars have a hybrid Fender/Floyd Rose liscensed trem system and the strings feed thru and seat deep into the trem block/bridge. If I break a string in the middle of a set at the bridge, the standard ball end sticks inside the guidehole in the bridge and I have to use a needle to pry it out.

The Bullets have a solid metal tapered "bullet" looking thing at the end of the string which is the exact shape as the guidehole.

The "bullet' falls right out if the string breaks.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 4 (view)
 
The Beatles without George Martin...
Posted: 1/17/2008 6:29:46 PM
I always considered Martin "the 5th Beatle" or "the silent Beatle" for obvious reasons.
It is hard to imagine what would have been if he wasnt part of it, but I believe he was a critical link to their successful songwriting, or better yet, the finished product.

When you listen to rough draft tracks on "Anthology", you get a better understanding of his contribution to the end result. From what I have read, the Beatles were VERY demanding in the studio. Only Martin was able to deliver the goods and make happen what you hear today.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 189 (view)
 
Right to work Vs. Unions
Posted: 1/17/2008 11:50:21 AM
The Big Three are laying off because people arent buying American cars. That is all there is to it, and it seems to have nothing to do with unions.

As a previous poster cited, North American auto workers get about $70/hour versus about $60/hour for a Japanese worker. That difference is nothing basically, and shows that the wage gap has been closing up nicely. If that data is from 2007, then that $10 gap HAS closed , due to the landmark concessionary contracts signed by the automakers recently.

Even on a level playing field, they are still losing billions, just like the steel industry I worked in. Why?? Anymore, a comparable Japanese auto costs more than its North American counterpart, but we are still buying that Japanese auto rather than the Big Three auto, so union wages/benefits are not a factor at all.

The factor is that the Japanese offer a creatively better product, better designed and pro-actively engineered. That is the reason I have owned Japanese autos since the mid-70s, even though I was union steelworker. That creative and pro-active responsibility the Big Three lack lies with management, engineering, and guidance by the President, his 47 Vice presidents, and his circle of friends on the board of directors, none of which are union represented, and many of which make 10 times the money of their Japanese counterparts..

The Japanese always have been and still are simply beating us at our own game, union or not. The Big Three are always a step behind, due to lack of foresight and long term business strategy. They can never see beyond the next quarter.

I watch this all as a grim re-run of what happened to the steel industry, and I know what will inevitably happen. Union or not.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 24 (view)
 
Gold hits 900/ounce...
Posted: 1/15/2008 11:18:15 AM
I think it has more to do with what your definition of "investment" is.

I believe gold is a timeless STABLE investment, unlike other commodities or securities, etc.

The term "investment" had been perverted somewhat due to everyday people getting involved in investing via 401K, etc. Portfolios are geared towards riskier fast and intense return, or more bang for the buck. With that, you get windfalls and higher returns, but also similar losses when the cycle turns against your favour.

Look at it this way: If you invested $5000 in gold in 1990, whilst your friend invested $5000 in real estate, Your investment would have basically held steady generally...as boring to an investor as that sounds. You could have sold at any time between 1990 and today and not really had much of a loss, and perhaps a gain, considering todays prices. On the other hand, we see what happened to real estate. Yes, you would have made a tidy profit BEFORE 2007, but it is now erased.

The global stability of gold is not exciting to investors, but neverless it is as stable an investment as you can find long term. The basic rule still applies, though: Buy low, sell high.
 hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 169 (view)
 
Right to work Vs. Unions
Posted: 1/15/2008 10:17:12 AM

guess they got tired of having to pay someone 30.00 an hour too put on windhshield wipers.


No. Even paying minimum wage and slashing all benefits to those union workers, it is STILL cheaper to farm out labour and product overseas. The Chinese work for $5 a day. That is why everything is made in China - union, or not.

I have personal experience about the role of unions in the demise and relocation of plants or factories.

I was a union steelworker for 27 years until the plant shut down in 2004. Yes, we got a great wage and great benefits, but that was due to the historically time-honoured profit margin of steel in its boom years. It was nothing for them to throw 1-3 % of profits our way. The amount of profit made then was obscene.

As foreign competitors gained market share in the US(in Canada too) in the 70s,profits fell and losses were absorbed, all the while downsizing and cutting costs accordingly to stay afloat and profitable. We took paycut after paycut; erosion of benefits, and downsizing/layoffs.

Even after all that in the 90s, the industry still was losing more money than ever before. In 1976 when I was hired there were 12,000 high paid workers at my plant. In 2003, there were less than 2,000 lower paid workers, but the industry still racked up millions in losses despite the massive manpower cuts.

The most telling sign I remember was at a meeting with the company president a year or so before it shut down. He spelled out to us that, due to foreign governments subsidising their own steel industries and taking advantage of exporting to our free market whilst protecting their home industry and restricting their own importing, it was posible to buy a ton of finished steel from overseas cheaper than we were able to buy just the iron ore to make that same ton of steel, without adding all the other manfacturing costs to the process.

In other words, EVEN IF WE HAD ALL WORKED FOR FREE, we could not make steel cheaper than the subsidised foriegn imports. There was nothing we could do. It has more to do with trade policies than being a union member, or what party you belong to.
 
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