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Author
Thread: CHRISTMAS WISHES AND HOLIDAY CHEER AT ERNIE'S 12-19-09
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
6 (
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)
CHRISTMAS WISHES AND HOLIDAY CHEER AT ERNIE'S 12-19-09
Posted:
11/21/2009 1:45:29 AM
All the greeters did a fabulous job last party. I got there early and saw Linda all ready to go....lol. Lucy knows how to throw a shindig.
Mo
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
8 (
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)
Post- Thanksgiving Bash at Mr. B's in Troy 11-28-09
Posted:
11/20/2009 4:40:52 PM
Groovy B-a-a-a-a-by.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
5 (
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Post- Thanksgiving Bash at Mr. B's in Troy 11-28-09
Posted:
11/20/2009 11:08:01 AM
Looks good. The change should stick, C-Girl.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
3 (
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Post- Thanksgiving Bash at Mr. B's in Troy 10-28-09
Posted:
11/20/2009 12:09:04 AM
Linda's right....lol. Might have to try again.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
472 (
view
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Sarcasm red flag or not?
Posted:
11/11/2009 4:26:32 PM
I love "this" ...
There is no place in a healthy relationship for sarcasm.
Some may excuse their sarcasm suggesting they are just kidding, or they don't really mean it, or they were just giving their spouse a "bad time."
The truth is, both the giver and receiver of sarcasm are well aware of the meaning and underlying purpose in it. It is a rather passive aggressive way of criticizing; being rude in a more "acceptable" way, subtly hurting another while maintaining room for denial.
Regardless of what one wants to call it, regardless of how one wants to minimize it, regardless of how one wants to pretend there is no meaning behind it, sarcasm leaves a sting.
Thomas Caryle once wrote that, "sarcasm is the language of the devil."
He understood that their is a subtle cruelty to sarcasm that hurts and leaves its mark.
In a healthy relationship, sarcasm should not exist.
If there are issues in a relationship that need addressing, they should be addressed, worked on, discussed. They should be dealt with, with openness, care, and concern.
They should not be harbored and repressed only expressing themselves in inappropriate ways either by lashing out with criticism or sarcasm.
If your relationship is filled with your expressions of sarcasm, best explore what is behind the need for the sarcastic comments and expression.
Once one comes to terms with their own need for responding with sarcasm, she/he can find more appropriate and healthy ways to address whatever it is that is bothersome.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
460 (
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Sarcasm red flag or not?
Posted:
11/10/2009 9:21:08 PM
Sarcasm is a sign of intelligence.
Most dumb people can't use or understand sarcasm.
Biggest load of arrogant sh*t I've ever heard.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
455 (
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Sarcasm red flag or not?
Posted:
11/10/2009 6:07:19 PM
Yep, cw35's reaction just proves the point against sarcasm.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
103 (
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Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted:
11/10/2009 1:51:28 PM
The number one evil influence in federal government is lobbying. To get elected takes money, enormous amounts of money, and some of the biggest contributors are lobbyist, most of which represent self-interests at cross-purposes with the wider national goals of public good.
To stop their pernicious influence means “real” campaign finance reform, not the watered down, cut and paste approach that’s happened over the years. Take money out of the equation and you eliminate a giant chunk of the corruption in government right there.
The reason there hasn’t been real reform is from the same influence—lobbyists. They will stop at nothing to block change. Republicans and Democrats are “equally” susceptible to the influence.
The catalyst has to come from the grassroots, the people. Just being cynical and hateful of our system and pointing fingers of blame rings hollow. As we all know, the only real change comes from without—intense public pressure that demands reform. Start writing your reps and never let up. Organize your friends and have them do the same. It’s amazing how many people b*tch about the system but have never written their congressional reps or the president? Heck, some don’t even know the “names” of their reps in the first place?….lol.
Change has to come from us, the “right” way (none of this armed insurrection, total anarchy - Whoopeee! crap), and it has to be strong and sustained.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
102 (
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Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted:
11/10/2009 1:47:22 PM
Exactly mungojoe.
Does the Dem plan have some costs spread out over years? Yes. To fix a system that's been left broken for far too long won't be easy or free. However, I think the Dem plan has ways to offset these costs that will be far less expensive than leaving healthcare on its present, destructive path.
The real issue is many are of the mindset that we should get something for nothing, that any problem should have a cost-free and painless solution. I still have no idea where people get that from?
If people think Republicans are the virtuous upholders of fiscal responsibility, I give you feel-good, politically aggrandizing tax cuts during their time in power that ultimately added 5 trillion to the national debt.
Maybe critics have also forgotten the projected 1.2 trillion dollar (ten year estimate) Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act, pushed through by a Republican President and Congress in 2003.
Their behavior throughout all their time running things did NOTHING to shrink government or cover paying for the expensive programs so dear to Republican hearts, and instead just shifted the cost to later generations.
Make no mistake, Republicans are great at spending money they don’t have, a charge they continually level at the Dems. The difference is they mask those costs under the guise of tax cuts, which makes government borrow even more from lenders like China, exploding our national debt, and making taxpayers believe they can get something for free. To me, that’s even more disingenuous and deceitful.
Their self-righteous criticism of the healthcare bill now is a bit hypocritical.
If we want real reform and pay for the programs we all benefit from as a society, we have to pay for it. Both parties need to have the political will and guts to say so. Funding isn’t done by creative book-keeping and telling the public lies. If the public overwhelmingly rejects paying for anything government provides, I say cut every friggin’ program now currently run by government and see the results. We’ll see how fast and loud the howl of protests will be of government “abandoning” us, and I don’t think they’ll be long in coming.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
100 (
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Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted:
11/10/2009 1:17:39 PM
If that's the case, then SS, Medicare, and Medicaid should be abolished tomorrow, since they are all programs run by the government with our tax dollars. Transfer our entire healthcare system over to the private sector. Let the industry run things. No conflict of interest there, right? If you advocate that, there better be very strict controls and regulation on pricing and coverage, and just where would that come from? Our government, the same one you think is evil and corrupt. If you think the lobbying efforts of the related industries -- the pharmaceutical and insurance companies, malpractice lawyers, doctors associations, etc -- is onerous now, wait until "that" happens?
Either way our government is going to have a huge hand in healthcare, so you better get used to it.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
98 (
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Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted:
11/10/2009 1:04:02 PM
If it's killed in the Senate, it is what it is. But don't be too satisfied. You're only substituting a higher cost for a lower one. I will warn once again, to do nothing and keep current trends will only continue to grow costs and expand a broken system. When healthcare becomes so restrictive and unaffordable to the vast majority, and costs are so high it takes up more and more of our GDP, maybe we'll finally have the political guts and will to fix the system. But that mindset has to come from the public. That's the only push our government understands.
Facts on the Cost of Health Insurance and Health Care
Health care spending continues to rise at a rapid rate forcing businesses to cut back on health insurance coverage and forcing many families to cut back on basic necessities such as food and electricity and, in some cases, shelters and homes.
Experts agree that our health care system is riddled with inefficiencies, excessive administrative expenses, inflated prices, poor management and inappropriate care, waste and fraud. These problems increase the cost of medical care associated with government health programs like Medicare and Medicaid, and health insurance for employers and workers and affect the security of families.
National Health Care Spending
National health spending is expected to reach $2.5 trillion in 2009, accounting for 17.6 percent of the gross domestic product (GDP). By 2018, national health care expenditures are expected to reach $4.4 trillion—more than double 2007 spending.1
National health expenditures are expected to increase faster than the growth in GDP: between 2008 and 2018, the average increase in national health expenditures is expected to be 6.2 percent per year, while the GDP is expected to increase only 4.1 percent per year. 1
In just three years, the Medicare and Medicaid programs will account for 50 percent of all national health spending. 1
Medicare's Hospital Insurance (HI) Trust Fund is expected to pay out more in hospital benefits and other expenditures this year than it receives in taxes and other dedicated revenues. In addition, the Medicare Supplementary Medical Insurance (SMI) Trust Fund that pays for physician services and the prescription drug benefit will continue to require general revenue financing and charges on beneficiaries that will grow substantially faster than the economy and beneficiary incomes over time. 2
According to one study, of the $2.1 trillion the U.S. spent on health care in 2006, nearly $650 billion was above what we would expect to spend based on the level of U.S. wealth versus other nations. These additional costs are attributable to $436 billion outpatient care and another $186 billion of spending related to high administrative costs. 3
Employer and Employee Health Insurance Costs
Over the last decade, employer-sponsored health insurance premiums have increased 131 percent. 4
Employees have seen their share of job-based coverage increase at nearly the same rate during this period jumping from $1,543 to $3,515.4
The cumulative increase in employer-sponsored health insurance premiums rose at four times the rate of inflation and wage increases during last decade. This increase has made it much more difficult for businesses to continue to provide coverage to their employees and for those workers to afford coverage themselves.4
The average employer-sponsored premium for a family of four costs close to $13,400 a year, and the employee foots about 27 percent of this cost.4 Health insurance costs are the fastest growing expense for employers. Employer health insurance costs overtook profits in 2008, and the gap grows steadily. 5
Total health insurance costs for employers could reach nearly $850 billion by 2019. Individual and family spending will jump considerably from $326 billion in 2009 to $550 billion in 2019.6
The Congressional Budget Office has estimated that job-based health insurance could increase 100 percent over the next decade.7 Employer-based family insurance costs for a family of four will reach nearly $25,000 per year by 2018 absent health care reform.7
The Impact of Rising Health Care Costs
Economists have found that rising health care costs correlate with significant drops in health insurance coverage, and national surveys also show that the primary reason people are uninsured is due to the high and escalating cost of health insurance coverage.8
A recent study found that 62 percent of all bankruptcies filed in 2007 were linked to medical expenses. Of those who filed for bankruptcy, nearly 80 percent had health insurance.9
According to another published article, about 1.5 million families lose their homes to foreclosure every year due to unaffordable medical costs.10
Without health care reform, small businesses will pay nearly $2.4 trillion dollars over the next ten years in health care costs for their workers, 178,000 small business jobs will be lost by 2018 as a result of health care costs, $834 billion in small business wages will be lost due to high health care costs over the next ten years, small businesses will lose $52.1 billion in profits to high health care costs and 1.6 million small business workers will suffer “job lock“— roughly one in 16 people currently insured by their employers. 11
Source and References: http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
13 (
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)
Will Michigan ever recover from this economic crisis?
Posted:
11/9/2009 11:40:26 PM
I'd never count out the auto industry. It will be a huge climb back, and they probably won't come close to the amount of jobs they and their ancillary industries had previously provided, but they can rebound.
What looks to be a good contender for new growth industry is smart (green) energy.
The problem, like always, is our business policies are toxic. Lansing needs a total makeover for us to have a chance of getting out of this huge hole and maintaining any kind of sustainability.
Shrek makes an equally valid point. Federal policies need much reform, too.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
95 (
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Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted:
11/8/2009 7:41:50 PM
This should NOT be a Dem vs GOP, liberal vs conservative issue, since "both" parties understand the need for reform.
Some believe they have nothing to worry about, since they're covered and have always been. Wrong. You may be one devastating illness from total financial disaster, even "with" coverage.
Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies
By Theresa Tamkins, CNN, June 2009
This year, an estimated 1.5 million Americans will declare bankruptcy. Many people may chalk up that misfortune to overspending or a lavish lifestyle, but a new study suggests that more than 60 percent of people who go bankrupt are actually capsized by medical bills.
Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.
"Unless you're a Warren Buffett or Bill Gates, you're one illness away from financial ruin in this country," says lead author Steffie Woolhandler, M.D., of the Harvard Medical School, in Cambridge, Mass. "If an illness is long enough and expensive enough, private insurance offers very little protection against medical bankruptcy, and that's the major finding in our study."
Woolhandler and her colleagues surveyed a random sample of 2,314 people who filed for bankruptcy in early 2007, looked at their court records, and then interviewed more than 1,000 of them.
They concluded that 62.1 percent of the bankruptcies were medically related because the individuals either had more than $5,000 (or 10 percent of their pretax income) in medical bills, mortgaged their home to pay for medical bills, or lost significant income due to an illness. On average, medically bankrupt families had $17,943 in out-of-pocket expenses, including $26,971 for those who lacked insurance and $17,749 who had insurance at some point.
Overall, three-quarters of the people with a medically-related bankruptcy had health insurance, they say.
....
Full Article: http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/06/05/bankruptcy.medical.bills/
The Dem plan is the only one I've seen that actually strives to fix the system. If the Republican plan did I'd support it, but it doesn't---not even close.
History
Maybe people don't realize the history behind universal coverage in this country? It goes back at least a hundred years, and every time it's gotten close the special interests and industry lobbying forces have rushed to stop it dead.
Excellent history: http://www.pnhp.org/facts/a_brief_history_universal_health_care_efforts_in_the_us.php
We are the only industrialized nation on earth without universal coverage and affordable health care. That alone should shame us. But again, this isn't about ideology or altruism, but stone, hard cost, the cost of doing nothing and letting the system spiral more out of control. The cost of doing nothing will trump the cost of doing something, I will absolutely guarantee it.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
90 (
view
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Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted:
11/8/2009 4:23:25 PM
If the Senate plan is better than the House's, I'm all for it.
Again, it comes down to either doing something to fix healthcare, or nothing. What's so bad about doing nothing and letting things run its course, some may say?
A recent report by the New America Foundation's health-policy program estimates that the cost of doing nothing about health care, including poor health and shorter lifespan of the uninsured, is well above $200 billion a year and rising. That's enough to cover the uninsured and still have some left over for other public-health needs.
Health-insurance inflation will continue to outpace wages; the average cost of an employer-sponsored insurance plan for a family would reach $24,000 in 2016, an 84 percent increase from today. At least half of U.S households would need to spend more than 45 percent of their income to pay for insurance -- while the coverage itself would be sparser. Health costs would further undermine the ability of U.S. manufacturers to compete internationally, threaten the stability of U.S. jobs, and deepen the burden on local, state, and federal budgets
Activists and advocates might focus on access, outcomes, and equity. But "what's really moved health care to the forefront is costs," said Drew E. Altman, president and CEO of the Henry J. Kaiser Foundation, summing up months of Kaiser public-opinion research. "It's an economic issue. The combination of health-care costs on working people with other economic burdens -- mortgage, rent, fuel -- are just devastating."
"There's a growing sense of crisis that health care will be unaffordable ... and that the little insurance we have will be increasingly worthless," said Dr. Elliott Fisher, one of the main forces behind the Dartmouth Atlas, the bible of U.S. health-care irrationality. "And there's a sense of crisis about public health, about the need to refocus the system on prevention, on health promotion, on the growing burden of chronic disease."
http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_cost_of_doing_nothing_on_health_care
I can find many more that reiterate the above, but, really, do people have to be "told" healthcare is broken?
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
85 (
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Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted:
11/8/2009 9:12:16 AM
And what do you think the cost would be in doing nothing? If you think leaving the status quo in place and avoid making the hard choices in fixing healthcare won't cost much "more" over the next 10 to 20 years, you have your head in the sand.
If you hate the Dem plan, what's the alternative? The Republican plan is much worse and does NOT address the core issues of healthcare reform.
GOP healthcare plan isn't about helping the uninsured
November 8, 2009 By David Lazarus
Among other things, the proposal would actually increase the number of people without health insurance over the next decade. But it allows the Republicans to say they offered a cheaper alternative.
Republican lawmakers issued their own healthcare reform plan the other day, and you'd have to look hard to find a more cynical document purporting to represent the best interests of the American people.
How does the GOP plan fail at addressing our core problems of 47 million people lacking coverage and runaway medical costs? Let us count the ways.
First off, the plan actually increases the number of uninsured over the next decade, according to the Congressional Budget Office. By 2019, the CBO estimates, we'd have no fewer than 52 million non-elderly people without health coverage.
The Republican plan would allow insurers to cross state lines in offering their policies but would exempt them from many consumer-protection laws outside their home state.
Insurers would still be able to deny coverage to people with preexisting medical problems.
Employers wouldn't have to offer health insurance to workers.
Lower-income people would receive no additional assistance buying coverage for their families.
Needless to say, there's no mention of a public insurance option.
Perhaps the sole merit to the Republican reform plan is its price tag -- $61 billion over 10 years. But considering that it does virtually nothing to address current problems, and in some ways only makes those problems worse, taxpayers might wonder what exactly they're paying for.
"This doesn't do much to accomplish the goals that most people have for healthcare reform," said Paul Ginsburg, president of the Center for Studying Health System Change, a Washington think tank.
"At the top of that list has to be getting more people covered, and this wouldn't do that."
........
Full article: http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-fi-lazarus8-2009nov08,0,5790321.column
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
83 (
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Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted:
11/8/2009 8:43:48 AM
Hopefully, everybody should be for healthcare reform. Even though the bill passed the House it still has the Senate, and that's not automatic.
Many don't like the House bill, and I can certainly understand their misgivings.
However, and putting it simply, to do nothing about the outrageous rise of healthcare costs and keeping the status quo is definitely no answer. Costs will reach the point where no employer can afford coverage, and those costs will shift, in their entirety, to workers. Premiums will become so expensive only the richest in society will be able to afford it. Right now, most workers are insulated from absorbing the true expense of their healthcare, but that won't stay that way. Once the true costs are faced by even "working" people, citizens will be lining up in the halls of Congress "screaming" something be done. Maybe that's what it will take.
That said, I’m against any healthcare bill if it doesn’t do what it’s supposed to, which is reign in healthcare costs and reform a system that rewards cost spiral instead of containment. I also want to eliminate the nefarious insurance company practice of freezing out people with pre-existing conditions, among other things. The House bill does that.
The way our system works is no one will get everything they want. Even Democrats within their own party had to compromise on many things. As for the Republican plan, it has major flaws and simply didn't address all the issues.
Healthcare reform and price containment “is” needed. Finding the right plan to do it is the trick. Whether the final healthcare legislation will do that is something we'll find out.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
236 (
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Full Scale Financial Meltdown
Posted:
11/4/2009 2:24:17 AM
I see the blame game is in full swing, even after all this time.
Bush haters blaming Bush, corporate haters blaming Wall Street for their endless greed, anti-government haters blaming the Fed, Congress, and White House for not reigning in that greed, "smart" people blaming dummies who took advantage of all those subprime loans they couldn’t possibly pay back, bank haters blaming all those greedy lenders for offering and accepting bad loans in the first place. Conservatives blaming liberals, and vice-versa. I've even seen Obama being blamed?
The list is virtually endless.
Do you see a pattern? Everybody blaming someone else. We are a nation of responsibility shifters—practically professional at it.
Bottom line is, in a very real sense, we are all to blame.
I didn’t see any of this righteous anger and finger pointing when everything was going like gangbusters, when housing prices were spiraling ever higher and people were buying real estate only to flip houses for huge profits. I didn’t see any anger over years of lax financial regulation and oversight that pumped up the housing bubble and pushed along an artificially bullish stock market that had people's investment value skyrocket.
As we now know, all those years of high living was an illusion based on toxic loans, false assumptions, inflated bottom lines, an misplaced optimism.
But nobody wanted the party to end.
If any government financial oversight agency actually did their job and came down hard with regulation, thus deflating the balloon, they would have been immediately and viciously attacked by those profiting from the party (which, as we know, was practically everyone).
Btw, the problems that created the financial meltdown have NOT been fixed. Existing regulations are still not being vigorously enforced and the loopholes the crisis exposed are still not closed. We could very well have another damaging bust, probably in either the commercial real estate or credit card markets.
To stop the cycle of bubbles we need to fix the system, and fast. But that takes the will of “everyone”, and right now the financial lobbyist and special interests are applying huge pressure on Congress and the Obama administration to stop the needed reforms in their tracks, and they’re succeeding.
Critics are almost apoplectic with rage about the stimulus and healthcare, when the real focus right now should be on avoiding another financial crash, because the next one nobody will be able to fix.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
49 (
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Thousands flee Pakistan valley as truce crumbles
Posted:
11/2/2009 3:25:12 PM
Funny that they never had significant problems till the US interfered in the region.
Perhaps you need a refresher of internal Pakistan ethnic turmoil that predates any direct US involvement by “decades”. There is also the mistaken and rather heavy innuendo that America has and does directly control every aspect of Pakistan’s political and military structure, which is total fabrication.
Some in the Pakistan government and ISI (intelligence) had and evidently continue to have vested interests in supporting the Taliban by allowing their presence and growth all these years.
US “participation” in Pakistan's internal process has always been way over emphasized and greatly exaggerated. We simply don't have the kind of Machiavellian presence in the internal politics of nations critics always try to attribute to US governments. If we did, do you think the world would behave the way it does? Every nation would be manipulated as a US satellite and proxy, doing our bidding. As anyone with even a cursory knowledge of world events knows, the US definitely does NOT wield that kind of omnipresent influence.
Yeah and demanded full payment in gold bullion in exchange and btw that aid also went to Germany until 1942.
You’re not seriously implying that our government actually supported GB and Nazi Germany “equally”. That Roosevelt’s relationship with Churchill and Hitler were the "same". I don’t know whether to laugh or cry over that completely ridiculous interpretation and blatant distortion of revisionist history. I assure you, not one responsible historian of WW2 history will buy that bunk.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
31 (
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Jesus is stealing my girlfriends!
Posted:
11/2/2009 1:01:09 AM
Agree with those that flagged the OP's profile as stating "non-religious". I'd go further. Nothing in even in his "text" says anything about religion.
OP, are you really sure you're looking for the religious type or just have some weird addiction to them?
Try going out with non-religious types for awhile and see.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
4 (
view
)
Michiana POF Halloween party at Joey Armadillos
Posted:
11/1/2009 11:05:21 PM
Great pics, Russ. Looks like everyone enjoyed themselves.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
131 (
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Steele new leader of the RNC, how do you feel about that? Limbaugh most influential republican?
Posted:
11/1/2009 8:41:18 PM
Agree etourdi77. Closed minds are certainly not confined by ideology. I got very angry with all the hate and venom against Bush and Republicans when they were in power, and just as aggravated with the Obama haters. There just happens to be more of the latter for the obvious reason Obama and the Dems are now in power.
However, the shift could very well happen as soon as the next congressional elections. If Obama doesn’t deliver on the stimulus plan he could definitely be just a one-termer. The plan is a gamble, no doubt about it.
$29.95 sounds like a bargain, Dasein. Does that come with a free ShamWow?
Shoot, I just realized I used "btw" twice in the same sentence in my earlier post. Typing fingers go faster than the brain.
Mo
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
128 (
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Steele new leader of the RNC, how do you feel about that? Limbaugh most influential republican?
Posted:
11/1/2009 7:20:55 PM
From what I've read and seen, I like Steele. He brings a fresh persona to the Republican Party.
Rush....different matter. There was a time I could at least tolerate him, but his message gets shriller and more hate-filled every year. Now I completely detest him.
I wrote the following to use on another forums about Limbaugh, but I suppose it's just as apropos here. Btw, one could very well substitute any far "Left" cartoon commentator for Limbaugh, btw. I don't play sides or have favorites, and call any demagogue that masquerades as fair and balanced for what they are.
_________________________________________________________
Gawd how I miss William Buckley—a real, thinking, intellectual conservative. Has anyone ever seen his long-running debate show called Firing Line (1966-1999)? He would have made mincemeat of so-called conservatives like Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, and Sarah Palin. That in itself should give enough pause for those that worship Limbaugh. Buckley thrived on intelligent, illuminating debate, Limbaugh on who can shout the loudest and be the most divisive.
Limbaugh mocks Obama for his narcissism and adulation, which I think is rich coming from a blowhard that makes hundreds of millions to do a radio talk show (he signed a $400 million dollar contract—that's $400 million, folks—for a "talk show"! ... Obama, or any president, makes life and death decisions every day and leads the free world; and gets paid a comparable fraction). Limbaugh revels in the sycophantic adoration of millions of his followers (dittoheads), and can never have enough lung power to promote himself at every opportunity. No one is a bigger narcissist and loves the spotlight more than Limbaugh.
I’m sure Limbaugh thinks of himself as the self-styled inheritor of the conservative mantle Buckley left behind. He can’t even carry Buckley’s shoes.
If I want a conservative voice now, I listen to commentators like David Brooks and George Will. I’m so disgusted every time I see or hear Limbaugh’s constant ego and superiority on display I have to turn the channel because he makes my stomach churn.
People need to put down the remote and do their own research, make up their own minds, and not rely on tabloid, sound-bite journalism and the overheated rhetoric of talking heads for their thoughts, ideas, and insights. Limbaugh is the father of all the political noise and fighting we see on cable right now, and to me, that's not a very good legacy.
Mo
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
46 (
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Thousands flee Pakistan valley as truce crumbles
Posted:
11/1/2009 9:50:23 AM
Pakistan's problems have to be ultimately solved by themselves. I'm against one American soldier losing his or her life to fight an internal war Pakistanis themselves should be waging.
That doesn't mean a country can't encourage and materially help another if the goals one seeks is in line with the other. It's done all the time, and has been done since the dawn of civilization.
The Taliban is a cancer eating Pakistan from within. I firmly believe this, whether some moderate Pakistanis do or not. Some are apparently slow to understand the Taliban's ultimate mission is to take over the country and spread their twisted vision of Islamic radicalism to the whole region. That understanding will probably only come when the radicals seize power and submit the whole country to sharia law and governance like they had in Afghanistan. Unfortunately, by then it will be too late.
What you call interference, I call support and encouragement.
We helped Great Britain in its war against Hitler before our own involvement. Many in the US isolationist movement at the time were vociferous in their opposition and thought it was a huge mistake, that we should stay out of any conflict, even when shown such aid is in our best interests. Imagine if Great Britain fell to Nazi occupation and the US lost an ally and base of operations to conduct war in Europe against Hitler? It would have made the struggle infinitely worse, much more expensive, and even thrown whether we could have prevailed into question.
I'm not comparing Pakistan to England, but I do consider radical Islamic fundamentalism as a great threat to be reckoned with; one that should never be minimized or taken for granted.
motownmaniax
Joined:
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Msg:
89 (
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Halloween at Mr. B's in Troy on 10-31-09
Posted:
10/30/2009 9:30:57 PM
The way that wind is howling outside, you'd think tonight is Halloween?
Spooky
motownmaniax
Joined:
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Msg:
86 (
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Halloween at Mr. B's in Troy on 10-31-09
Posted:
10/30/2009 7:19:26 PM
Like any concerned citizen, just helpin' out.
motownmaniax
Joined:
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Msg:
78 (
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Halloween at Mr. B's in Troy on 10-31-09
Posted:
10/30/2009 3:21:21 PM
Westsiders that need a carpool partner see above.
motownmaniax
Joined:
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Msg:
75 (
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Halloween at Mr. B's in Troy on 10-31-09
Posted:
10/30/2009 2:18:44 PM
Ditto what Macca said. Come on over, Moon. We'll all gather in the middle of the floor and do a communal dance...lol.
I'll be in "doctor" mode again so shouldn't be hard to find.
Linda, will you be in the same costume? Yours was great at O'Tooles.
Mo
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
44 (
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Thousands flee Pakistan valley as truce crumbles
Posted:
10/30/2009 12:42:41 PM
^^^ Exactly. The oil-rich countries have made a killing over decades. What they do with all that wealth, and how wisely they process it, is the responsibility of "their" leaders, not ours. If they squander it by corruption and greed to have it benefit only those at the very top, blame those governments.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
42 (
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Thousands flee Pakistan valley as truce crumbles
Posted:
10/29/2009 11:39:26 PM
Both flyguy and Larissa are correct. We funded anti-Soviet forces through Pakistani military and intelligence with the acquiescence of the Pakistan government (they had their own very vested interests in not seeing a Soviet takeover of Afghanistan, as their own operations showed).
The divergence comes with historical and philosophical interpretation of that involvement.
Critics say we funded the Taliban (meaning the Clinton administration evidently, since the Taliban didn’t exist as a viable military force until approximately 1994), and that “support” led directly to 9-11. So, the logic follows, in essence we are responsible for 9-11.
That is a HUGE stretch of interpretation, and based on faulty premises and just plain revisionist history.
The Taliban, as a deciding force in Afghan politics in the 90's, was an outgrowth in the vacuum of the Soviet withdrawal that saw warring factions of Mujahideen holding the country in perpetual guerrilla war. The Taliban were looked upon by some Afghans as the only group that could bring an end to all the in-fighting and restore order and some semblance of national government. At first they were seen as saviors, a tragically mistaken view in hindsight considering their rule was just as brutal as what came before, and even more restrictive, but hindsight makes all of us either look like fools or geniuses.
Flyguy was also correct about Charlie Wilson. He was a central figure in pushing for and funneling money through Pakistan to help Afghans fight the Soviets during the war. But was his motive evil, with the express purpose of creating a figure like bin Laden and envisioning blowback on the order of a 9-11? Of course not. To say otherwise is simply preposterous. His real motive was anger at what he saw the Soviets doing to the Afghan people.
After meeting with them (Pakistani government officials) he was taken to a major Pakistan-based Afghan refugee camp so he could see for himself the atrocities committed by the Soviets against the Afghan people. About that visit, Wilson later said:
"That was the experience that will always be seared in my memory, was going through those hospitals and seeing, especially those children with their hands blown off from the mines that the Soviets were dropping from their helicopters. That was perhaps the deciding thing... and it made a huge difference for the next 10 or 12 years of my life because I left those hospitals determined, as long as I had a breath in my body and was a member in Congress, that I was going to do what I could to make the Soviets pay for what they were doing!"
In other words, US funding for the Mujahideen had the must altruistic of intentions. It was also part of a larger war, The Cold War, which both the Soviets and US had been waging for decades. Many administrations funded numerous anti-Soviet operations in many countries, dating back to the Truman administration, as did the Soviets from their end. These activities touched literally hundreds of thousands of people throughout any region we competed with the Soviets for control, thus deemed vital to our national security interests.
Both the Soviets and the US gained friends and enemies during this time. Does that make us "responsible" for attacks against us? I guess that depends on your pov. If you're an America hater it does. Does it also mean we "deserve" what we get? Absolutely not, any more than any country deserves perpetual hate and penalizing for actions done within the framework of history. I certainly don't hold Italians liable for excesses during the Roman Empire, or Great Britain/Western European powers for their imperial actions that destroyed indigenous cultures throughout the world over "centuries", or Germans and Japanese for their government's participation in WW2.
Another myth, as larissa quite rightly pointed out, is we did not “train” bin Laden. He took advantage, like thousands of others, of material assistance provided by the Pakistani’s (through US funding) in fighting the Soviets. Bin Laden also used his very large personal wealth to fund his activities during this formative time. The impression by critics is we had laser vision and “purposely” picked bin Laden to get specific, targeted training by the CIA, which is patently false. He was just another face in the crowd taking advantage of American largesse.
In addition to the books Larissa pointed out, “The Taliban” and “The Looming Tower”, another excellent book about the origins of bin Laden and al Qaeda is “The New Jackals” (about the 1993 WTC bombing, which is criminally overlooked or minimized in any discussion concerning 9-11). I suggest anyone with even a cursory interest in the subjects discussed here get them asap.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
64 (
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Halloween at Mr. B's in Troy on 10-31-09
Posted:
10/28/2009 6:06:31 PM
Almost here, Lady.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
9 (
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Michiana POF Halloween Party Oct 31 Relocated from Legends.
Posted:
10/28/2009 11:20:21 AM
Russ deserves a million thanks and praises for his work in rescuing this party. Hope all the partygoers let him know how much they appreciate it at the venue.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
62 (
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Halloween at Mr. B's in Troy on 10-31-09
Posted:
10/28/2009 11:15:03 AM
Thanks Macca. Using some impartial judges should eliminate charges of favoritism. It'll be up to Curlygirl and Firecrackerdeb.
Mo
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
58 (
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Halloween at Mr. B's in Troy on 10-31-09
Posted:
10/27/2009 4:28:07 PM
Great choice, CG. Sounds like a plan. It'll definitely cut down on killing trees...lol.
Mo
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
56 (
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Halloween at Mr. B's in Troy on 10-31-09
Posted:
10/27/2009 11:07:59 AM
Should be much coolness.
I thought about the best way to vote for Best Costume and keep coming back to ballot. How we can stop ballot stuffing is just go to the tables later that night and pass out ballots, have people vote right there and then, and collect them at the same time.
I figure if the three of us (you, Deb, and me) fan out we could cover the entire place relatively quickly. Making paper slips and having a few pencils is cheap.
Whaddya think C-Girl?
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
53 (
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Halloween at Mr. B's in Troy on 10-31-09
Posted:
10/26/2009 9:20:36 PM
Yep, I saw some from our list at Waterford. All in costume if I remember. Woo Hoo!
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
103 (
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Do women always assume you are hitting on them when you speak to them?
Posted:
10/26/2009 5:13:43 PM
Look at your message 98 on the last page, the section that begins with
"You had no business being rude to Octobergirl about her word choice...."
Then followed a whole other passage about Pinkfairy. Sounds like a personal argument to me. What either of them have to do with you I have no idea. If they have a problem with RD they should contact him themselves and iron it out, not you.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
101 (
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Do women always assume you are hitting on them when you speak to them?
Posted:
10/26/2009 4:21:33 PM
In RD's defense, you shouldn't bring up personal tiffs here, Salmon. He's shown very good restraint and maturity.
Problems of he said-she said variety are better left to be worked out through private messaging. Many times the intent behind words in public forums are misconstrued or misinterpreted and blown way out of proportion. Then blood pressure rises and irritation turns to anger.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
14 (
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Eastside Get Together at Ernie's 11/14/09
Posted:
10/26/2009 3:24:45 PM
Hope you can make it Stephs, even if just dropping in to say hi and have a quick dance.
Mo
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
12 (
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Eastside Get Together at Ernie's 11/14/09
Posted:
10/26/2009 12:35:04 PM
I didn't even see Libra's message about the voucher until last night...lol. I put the info and a quick link in the main text area.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
96 (
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Do women always assume you are hitting on them when you speak to them?
Posted:
10/25/2009 7:13:03 PM
In salmon's defense, I didn't take anything she's written as a slam or insulting. People do need to fight the urge to gang up and have a pack mentality on here. I've been a victim of it a few times, as I'm sure others have, and it's never fun.
Everyone has made valid comments in this thread and been good contributors, so let's keep things civil.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
480 (
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President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted:
10/25/2009 7:01:12 PM
Absolutely agree with all those that believe the one thing Obama “shouldn’t” do is turn down the prize just to appease critics that hate the committee, the process, and Obama himself.
The LAST thing I want to see is any president taking marching orders from critics. They weren't elected, he was, so get over it.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
467 (
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President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted:
10/25/2009 8:59:46 AM
Obama could very well just not accept the prize. He go a step further, show up in Oslo, and give the international equivalent of a giant thumbs down and bums rush to the committee for the entire world to see.
How and if that will “shame” the committee into drastically modifying their behavior is of course fanciful speculation and wishful thinking on the part of critics. I think by next award time it will be yesterday’s news and nothing will substantially change in the way winners are picked, but that’s just me. I could be equally wrong, too. Point being, no one has the right answer.
What critics seem to misunderstand is Obama is under no obligation to purposely insult and embarrass the Nobel Committee just to prove a political point. They gave him the prize, not the other way around. He neither campaigned nor lobbied for it.
Now, an even better scenario would be for Obama to accept the award and illuminate instead of ridicule. Deliver one killer lecture on behalf of all the people striving to make the world a better place, acknowledge he has much more work to do, and allow the prize money to go to charity as proposed.
One thing that does irritate me. Critics have been frothing all over the media about what a joke the prize is because of Obama and some past winners had "no business" winning it, so the prize is tainted. If so, why does it matter if he accepts it or not? If it means nothing, why the emphasis to “show” the world how worthless it is by turning it down? Who cares? Critics can’t on one hand dismiss it as phony, and on the other elevate it to a prestige worthy enough to be rejected.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
51 (
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Halloween at Mr. B's in Troy on 10-31-09
Posted:
10/24/2009 6:30:39 AM
There is one tonight in Waterford, Lisa. Maybe that's the one you're thinking of.
Mo
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
47 (
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Halloween at Mr. B's in Troy on 10-31-09
Posted:
10/22/2009 6:36:33 PM
Fantastic, MC, almost forgot. Thanks for reminding me....lol.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
153 (
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HALLOWEEN AT O'TOOLES - WATERFORD MI - SATURDAY 10.24.09 - LIVE BAND - NO COVER
Posted:
10/21/2009 11:18:44 AM
And so functional. Can go right to bed when you go home.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
151 (
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HALLOWEEN AT O'TOOLES - WATERFORD MI - SATURDAY 10.24.09 - LIVE BAND - NO COVER
Posted:
10/21/2009 10:37:47 AM
I've seen the gamut, Patty, so there really isn't a set limit. I'm sure points will be awarded for originality, but any costume is good.
Mo
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
78 (
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Do women always assume you are hitting on them when you speak to them?
Posted:
10/19/2009 12:55:22 PM
I think it's probably harder on men because societal norms say men are supposed to approach women, not the other way around. Some in both genders break the stereotype, but in the main I don't see too much behavioral deviation.
Whenever I'm at POF parties it seems the sexes stay pretty much together, with women waiting for a guy to approach them.
I rarely approach a woman unless she gives definite signs, which could be strong body language or simply initiating a conversation herself.
I agree with those that say people shouldn't get all bent out of shape for getting rebuffed. If it happens just move on. No use having it ruin your day...lol.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
42 (
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Halloween at Mr. B's in Troy on 10-31-09
Posted:
10/18/2009 7:40:34 PM
Macca, Too!! Should be fantastic.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
142 (
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HALLOWEEN AT O'TOOLES - WATERFORD MI - SATURDAY 10.24.09 - LIVE BAND - NO COVER
Posted:
10/18/2009 6:27:49 PM
This week everyone needs to be in permanent freak mode.
motownmaniax
Joined:
8/13/2006
Msg:
393 (
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President Obama Wins The Nobel Peace Prize!
Posted:
10/18/2009 5:38:26 PM
Again, etourdi, "encourage, endorse, and contribute" (taken from your quotes) is NOT the same thing as control, manipulate, and direct, which is what you're charging with the Nobel committee.
I voted for Obama (I also voted for Bush, btw) and support Obama's international policies and initiatives. Does that make me part of some vast conspiracy to directly influence his actions?
Maybe there is some fundamental issue with understanding here?
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