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 Author Thread: Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 189 (view)
 
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
Posted: 11/14/2010 1:16:01 PM
^^ I'd insult you and make some insinuations about what type of person you are, but apparently you don't look kindly on it. Shucks.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 64 (view)
 
Girlfriend says she is can't take my kid anymore
Posted: 11/14/2010 8:54:02 AM
I respect your opinions, but I still kindly disagree. It IS a right of a person to find love, if they can find it with someone that cares for them and they can trust. And yes, a parent's first priority should be their children, but that shouldn't be their only priority. You can't live your life for only your child, you have to live it for yourself as well. At times when I was growing up, my mother worked three jobs to support myself and my siblings and also balanced a full school schedule. The fact that she wasn't around a lot of the time isn't what mattered, the fact that the time we did spend together was happy and it was obvious she cared did. I've never known or met my father, by the way, so there was no emotional support coming from him.

When I was in my early teens, she met the man that she would go on to marry. I'll admit I was a bit jealous at first of their relationship, but as I began to see how much happier and more complete she felt by having somebody she could trust in her life, it made all of us share in her joy.

When I do eventually have children, I'm sure that I will want to dedicate a large portion of myself to them. But it won't be all them, all the time. Children need a loving, fostering environment to grow up in, but they also need the benefit of independence. Plus, just as every parent deserves to see their child mature healthily and become great people, every child deserves to see their parent happy.

I don't believe it is necessarily the amount of time you spend with your child, it is the quality of that time. If you are capable of loving your child and providing for them, and if your relationship is healthy, I don't see any problem at all with providing for your own emotional welfare as well.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 36 (view)
 
Vasectomy , tubes tied ... Still wants to use condom
Posted: 11/14/2010 6:36:34 AM

No wonder STDs are rampant. Too bad condoms don't prevent stupidity.


They don't prevent STDs either. They help protect against them, nothing more. And with some STDs, that protection is extremely limited.

You'd better go file your MENSA application before all of the idiots around here bring you down.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 61 (view)
 
Girlfriend says she is can't take my kid anymore
Posted: 11/14/2010 6:32:10 AM
CootieQueen, are you kidding? Or are you just completely off your ****ing rocker?

A parent of a child ANY age has a right to find love. That doesn't change the fact that they have a responsibility to their child, but that also doesn't condemn them to a life dedicated only to being a parent and nothing else. So, if the parent of a five-year-old can't try to find someone to be with, at what age IS it appropriate? 12? 15? 18? You're on a slippery slope.

I don't think a parent who has a young child at home should go out every night clubbing and having casual sex. But if they want to have a sitter while they go out every once in awhile to have fun and try to meet someone, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I further postulate that it is BETTER for a parent to have some "me time" every once in awhile instead of focusing on only one factor of their life. Taking no time for themselves or to relieve stress is a reason some parents "burn out" and become polar opposites of the personality they had before they had a child.

I'm not claiming to be enlightened and I'm not a parent, but your mistaken notion that a parent has the SOLE responsibility of raising their child and nothing else is ignorant. Should parents also quit their jobs until their kids are 18 so that they can dedicate every second of their day to them?
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 42 (view)
 
Flattering…Or Over-The-Top Creepy?
Posted: 11/14/2010 4:28:18 AM
:D

You're completely right, maintaining a healthy emotional distance in the early stages of a relationship is just stupid. Hell, we should all go out and take pictures of the person we want to be with and put them on our computer. Lets paste them all over our walls and fridge and cabinets, too!

And yeah, I actually think it IS a bit more acceptable to have sex early on than it is to start worshiping over a person's picture. In a lot of cases, sex is a purely physical act that doesn't last for much longer than it takes either person to finish. A picture is going to stay there until it is changed, and represents a yearning or obsession the OP probably has. Sex doesn't have to mean anything more than sex; putting a picture like that up is indicative on an unhealthy attachment so early in a new relationship.

Honestly, I'd prefer it if my SO NEVER put pictures like that up of me. I don't want somebody completely immersing themselves in my world, because then it steals some of the thunder when we are actually together. It's fine to think about a person you care about and to miss them, but maintain a semblance of distance to keep the relationship fresh.

Anyhow, the OP asked if people thought this was creepy (her word, not ours'), and people gave her their answers. If that means that everybody who answered 'yes' if never going to get laid or have a meaningful relationship again, then I guess the PoF forums carry more influence in the world than I originally thought.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 93 (view)
 
Looking at the clock during sex.
Posted: 11/14/2010 2:58:28 AM
Kayliecat, I suppose I am pretty young, but don't hold it against me. :/ I started my dating career/sex life rather early in life, like so many other petulant, bored children in our country. I'm only 23, but I've certainly been through my fair share of relationships and escapades.

I definitely understand why you left the pothead. There has to be priorities in relationships and I'm not suggesting your SO always come second. But if you know there is something they are passionate about, such as a sport or television show, then let them enjoy it as long as they give you the attention you deserve/need the rest of the time.

I've had relationships end because I like to read "too much," and the woman I was with didn't think I paid enough attention to her. That's ridiculous. I can love BOTH reading and a person, but I certainly don't think I should have to give one away for the other.

Also, I agree with you about the whole making love thing. Sex is great, and when you are 'making love,' that's great too. But it has to be special. If every time you sleep together there is supposed to be some kind of deep emotional investment behind it, it just cheapens the whole overall experience over time. I'll stick with gratuitous sex for the majority of time and 'making love' for the special occasions.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 15 (view)
 
NFL's Pick Of The Top 100 Players Of All Time
Posted: 11/14/2010 2:48:04 AM
Vinny Testaverde. Most losses by a quarterback. He threw more TDs than INTs in only 8 of his 21 seasons. The only times he had decent or good season quarterback ratings was when he didn't play a full season and one season with the New York Jets.

Jeff Feagles. A punter. He had a long but rather unimpressive career. He was a decent punter, but certainly a bubble player, playing for five different teams over his career.

John Carney. Out of a 22 year career, has only made the Pro Bowl twice. Two of those seasons he was a practice squad member.

Hell, I would even say Gary Anderson. 23 seasons. I will admit, he was a good player and does hold some NFL records, but, aside from his "perfect season," the only reason he has those records was because he played for as many seasons as he did. Also, he was a kicker, which alone qualifies him for the "bubble player" description. Kickers don't generally have teams built around them. He has been considered for the HoF but not approved, at least not yet.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 40 (view)
 
Flattering…Or Over-The-Top Creepy?
Posted: 11/14/2010 2:11:53 AM
Beershark

Last night I went to a Social Distortion concert. First time I've seen them. Today I have a pic I took last night as my wallpaper. Are you going to contact the band and tell them that some creepy stalker secretly took a picture of them and as it on his computer so he can stare at them when ever he wants?
I don't think so...


There's a bit of a difference between a musical group engaging in a public performance and some guy the OP just met. Unless the man in question is Jack White or Eric Clapton, I still think the whole situation is a bit creepy.

Michaelann

Every potential relationship opens a person up to risk. But to avoid taking any risks, is really the biggest risk of all.


I'm definitely not disputing that, because it's a simple fact of life. But we CAN protect ourselves and our emotions to a certain limit by not always jumping in feet first. If she likes this guy that much, she should continue to explore the potential of the relationship and get to know him better. But having a picture on your desktop after only one or two meetings suggests a depth on attachment that is probably unhealthy and can only lead to more disappointment than normal if the relationship doesn't pan out.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 13 (view)
 
NFL's Pick Of The Top 100 Players Of All Time
Posted: 11/13/2010 5:11:21 PM
And there have been a whole lot of bubble players who last 14 years and beyond. Just saying.

It isn't a matter of percentages, it's a matter of people. Some people simply don't have the toughness or constitution, especially at more physical spots, to stick it out for ten years and beyond. I believe the average football career is just under 4 years. I'm just saying that it's a little early to say Polamalu is one of them.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 21 (view)
 
Vasectomy , tubes tied ... Still wants to use condom
Posted: 11/13/2010 10:24:41 AM
I've spent plenty of time in school as well, including several health care classes and seminars for work. I am completely aware that it "only takes one time," but the same could be said about many different diseases and illnesses.

Like I said, I'm not advocating unprotected sex, but I'm realistic enough that accept that oftentimes it happens. But as for your first comment, that it "simply can be true," I think you are being willfully oblique. Like I mentioned, that can be true of anything. So are you saying that since one cigarette can, rarely, be enough to trigger a reaction in a person and kill them, that everybody should have an irrational fear of ever lighting up? Or since sometimes people get drunk for the first time and drive into a tree, nobody should be allowed to drink? After all, it simply CAN be true.

Also, your elitist attitude when you say "Because I know what is real and not what I want to hear to justify reckless behavior" is stuffy, and also not quantifiable. First of all, I don't think any of my friends (or myself, when it has occurred), have tried to justify anything through self-delusion. We all know the risks and we've all taken them at various times. And most of us were intelligent enough to learn more about our partners before ever doing it. Just because it is the first time you sleep with a partner, as in the OP's case, doesn't mean you have to be blind to their sexual history and the risks involved. As far as your statement not being quantifiable, I suppose that you could be one of the rare people in the world who never makes poor decisions, allows themselves to be fooled or deluded, and know without a doubt everything that is "real" in the world. But I doubt it.

Also, as someone who has worked in the medical field so long, I haven't seen you once mention that condoms aren't a sure-fire safety net. From your two posts, one could be led to believe that putting on a condom keeps them "safe." Maybe instead of advocating safe sex, you should be advocating no sex.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 18 (view)
 
Vasectomy , tubes tied ... Still wants to use condom
Posted: 11/13/2010 8:46:43 AM
^Revilors,

I know the scary media makes it seem like if you have unprotected sex just once, you're going to catch some horrible disease and suffer for years until you die. It simply isn't true. As long as you are engaging in sex with people you feel comfortable with and have amply discussed both partners' sexual backgrounds, as well as get tested regularly and keep the results on-hand, you really shouldn't have a problem. I know plenty of people, men and women, who engage in ONLY unprotected sex and haven't run into any problems.

Generally speaking, I always use protection when I first hook up with a woman. However, that doesn't always last the course of the relationship - sometimes it's a few months, sometimes a few weeks. I'm tested regularly as I mentioned above and I always keep my test results. I no longer head to the local bar for 'casual hookups,' and on the occasions that I do, protection is used. All of that being said, I had plenty of unprotected sexual trysts when I was a few years younger. It seemed like using protection was the exception, not the rule. So, I don't think you should always have an overwhelming, paralyzing fear that if you engage in it, you've written yourself a death sentence. Just stay on top of your testing and don't pick up people you meet on the side of the street.

Also, I'm not advocating unprotected sex. People should take charge of their bodies and be as safe as possible. But condoms certainly aren't a sure-fire method to prevent disease. If you want to eliminate the risk completely, eliminate sex from your life. Then you have nothing to worry about.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 88 (view)
 
Looking at the clock during sex.
Posted: 11/13/2010 8:08:50 AM

If a man I am dating is more interested in sports on TV than me, I am no longer interested in any sex with that person. That's the same thing as me "wrapping it up" because Desperate Housewives is coming on. One can record everything today.


If something, ANYTHING, is that important to your partner, I say have a little decency and let them watch/do it, for Christ's sake. If the woman I am with wants to make sure we are done in time for her to watch Glee (and make me dinner), I am perfectly fine with that. If she has a knitted hat she really wants to get finished, fine.

Sex is just sex. It's an amazing cherry on top of an already fantastic cake. It can't be the entire focus of the relationship, 100% of the time. And I tend to get bored with women that take themselves too seriously in the bedroom or consider every time "making love." Have a little fun in your sex life. It's not like the losing team gets their head cut off; this isn't a Mesoamerican ballgame.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 16 (view)
 
Vasectomy , tubes tied ... Still wants to use condom
Posted: 11/13/2010 8:03:12 AM
Wait, so from what you guys have been saying...you can't actually TRUST anyone when they tell you they are clean? You mean you actually have to take precautions?

Shit.

I need to go get another test done.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 24 (view)
 
mental stimulation?
Posted: 11/13/2010 8:01:29 AM
:D I had to go and ruin it for everyone.

But yep, generally when you go out on a date and the guy is a grunting, armpit-scratching, dull mess, THAT is the guy who is actually in to you. He's thinking, "Wow, I really like this woman and she seems to be into me, too. I can just be myself! (Guess I didn't have to change my underwear and t-shirt, after all)"

This isn't universal, of course. Some people are extremely intelligent (none of them on this site and forum, no worries ) and are always going to come across that way. Some people have moved beyond sex being a driving interest and so aren't going to try to "fix" the playing field at all. And some are too self-centered to realize that they probably aren't as amazing as they perceive themselves to be and need to do something to adjust their game to get you. So, there are still mines in the field you have to watch out for.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 101 (view)
 
Twenty minutes and five dollars ..What?????
Posted: 11/13/2010 7:54:40 AM
Women seem to have all of these creepy, hilarious first date stories. My history is fairly plaid.

It's amusing to me, though, that what amounts as 'creepy' to a woman is the equivalent of most guys' fantasies. Why don't women lick my hands and knuckles after I first meet them? Why don't they rub up on me?

Women seem to have all the luck.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 11 (view)
 
NFL's Pick Of The Top 100 Players Of All Time
Posted: 11/13/2010 7:48:39 AM
^^ Are you a great psychic sports fan? Polamalu is a tough guy. I understand the physical, aggressive way he plays cuts down on the probability that he will have such a long career, but it is certainly possible for a player of his caliber.

And he won't NEED 14 seasons so surpass Lott in all relevant categories. So the argument is moot. He can do it in 10.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 3 (view)
 
Vasectomy , tubes tied ... Still wants to use condom
Posted: 11/13/2010 3:52:55 AM
That's a bit of a red flag, my friend. Like the poster above said, she might already be aware she has something and maybe she is trying to "protect you." Not that that is a fail-proof or even mildly effective way of doing it.

My rule of thumb when sleeping with a new women is that if ANY red flags pop up, I put it off until we can both figure out what is going on and get on to the same page. If you notice any strange sores in unusual spots, any obvious rashes, bruises, etc. Or if, like what happened with you, they seem particularly set on doing something that at the time seems to make no sense or is strange.

If you really enjoy this woman's company, suggest that you both take tests together. Don't be accusing, just be honest. It is your body and you need to take as good a care of it as you can. The same goes for her. If she wants you two to continue being together, she is going to have to submit to a test.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 8 (view)
 
NFL's Pick Of The Top 100 Players Of All Time
Posted: 11/13/2010 12:15:48 AM
OP, Polamalu is one of the best players on the field today. The Steeler's winning percentage in games in which Troy has at least one interception is unbelievable. I also personally think he should have been somewhere on that list. That being said, he has only been playing in the NFL for 7 seasons. He's a physical, tough guy who should have at least the same number of years ahead of him. I'm sure when they revamp their list, probably a couple of years down the road, he will definitely be on it.

Also, since being drafted Polamalu has played on a team that consistently has one of the stoutest defenses in the league. Unlike a fair amount of the players on the Top 100 list, he doesn't have to carry the weight of the team all by himself. I'm sure they took this into consideration when compiling it.

Yeswho,

Your list is pretty good, but you definitely have Jim Brown ranked way too high (or low, depends on how you look at it). He should easily be in the top 3 of any "Greatest Of' list being compiled that deals with NFL players. It makes absolutely ZERO sense how you could have Walter Payton listed before him. Take into consideration:

In 118 career games, Brown averaged 104.3 yards per game and 5.2 yards per carry. None of the NFL’s career rushing leaders come close to these spectacular totals. For example, Walter Payton averaged only 88 yards per game during his career with a 4.4 yards-per-carry average
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 83 (view)
 
just curious....
Posted: 11/12/2010 10:40:59 PM
^^ Good suggestion with the e-mail/phone contact. I also recommend Skype for situations like this, as it will allow both parties to see each other clearly and ensure that there are no surprises when you get together for your date.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 150 (view)
 
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
Posted: 11/12/2010 10:35:44 PM
TravelingLight,

Are you honed in on my mental wavelengths? It's spooky. :P

I'm not trying to argue with everybody incessantly until they give in, and I feel like I (and you) might be perceived as ***holes for the point we are trying to make, but I'm glad to see someone out there at least somewhat agrees with me on this particular matter.


BTW guys, while doing a Google search for specific paternity laws in the OP's state, I came across an article for Home DNA Testing kits. You swap the inside of the child's mouth and the inside of the father's mouth and then send the swaps off to a lab to be tested. While these tests are not admissible in court because they don't satisfy the "chain of custody" rule, their accuracy percentages are still very high and should more than satisfy the OP's friend's curiosity. This might be the perfect solution in this instance, and I hope the information gets passed along to the man in question.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 148 (view)
 
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
Posted: 11/12/2010 9:47:53 PM

Personal privacy and all that. If it's not his child, he has NO RIGHT to get a paternity test, and doing such a test is a violation of HER rights.


You should become a t.v. lawyer. You make about as much sense as one.

The only way to establish paternity of the child is through the test. Right now, the assumption by both parties is that it is his child. He has every right, both legal and ethical, to have the child's DNA analyzed and compared to his. If I understand what you are saying correctly, you are implying that he should raise the child without definitive proof it is his, solely on the chance that if he takes the test and it isn't his than he has no rights to it. That's twisted thinking.

I'll tell you what: if a woman walks up to you on the street with a baby in her arms and claims you are the father, you should raise it as your own. It doesn't matter if you know you haven't slept with her before or have even seen her before for that matter. I mean, you can't have her take a test to prove it isn't your child, because it probably isn't yours and you have no right to demand a test! And if you can't take the test to prove you didn't have a part in making the child, how do you plan on proving it isn't yours?
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 81 (view)
 
just curious....
Posted: 11/12/2010 8:52:50 PM

I've had three dates in the past week that included a bonfire, dinner and dancing under the stars, and a movie followed by a walk- all very nice and different.


Playaaaa! :D Seriously though, three dates? If you keep going at that rate, you're going to speed-date your way through all of Keller, Texas and have to move again.

I'm only saying this out of jealousy, of course. Three dates? ****.


OP,
Like someone else mentioned before, the problem isn't with where you are asking them to go, it is something else in how you are approaching the situation. Are you running in there with barely controlled excitement and screaming at them that you want to get coffee? You might be coming off as over-eager, which could potentially lead someone to think that you are a serial killer or rapist. Or just plan weird.

Try getting to know somebody longer before moving to the next step. Some people are suave operators and can convince someone to go for a drink or out to dinner after ten minutes of talking to them. Most people need to be patient and invest a little bit of time into a prospective partner before they start to see any returns.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 143 (view)
 
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
Posted: 11/12/2010 2:31:33 PM
Ah ha! Answers at last, Great God Almighty, answers at last!

Seems like his S.O. knew all about his "little problem." I guess that sticks a fork in about 3/4 of the posts arguing that he is a lying coward for not telling her, or assuming he was simply trying to shy away from his responsibilities - especially considering that he was the one in the relationship who suggested adoption and was turned down.

Also, it sounds like his other two exes were fertile enough and had no problems reproducing after they split up, so I'd say that is at least a decent indicator that there is in fact a problem with his reproduction capabilities. Knowing that, I think it is more than fair for him to request a paternity test.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 79 (view)
 
Looking at the clock during sex.
Posted: 11/12/2010 1:46:49 PM
I guess it all comes down to a difference between men and women.

From the responses from women on here, it seems that once you ladies do get around to being worked up, you tend to focus on sex and only sex. You're singularly driven in your conquest.

As a man, I know that a lot of the time my mind is focused on actually getting laid. However, when it comes around to the act itself, I know that I can simultaneously focus on several thought processes at once: "Wow, this feels great. What am I going to eat after this? Why is her labia so big? What time is kick-off for the GB/Chicago game? I really am hungry. Wow, this feels great!"

Now, that doesn't universally hold true. There are "special occasions" where my focus is single-minded. Also, the first several times I sleep with a new woman, I generally don't experience anything like this. Then my thought process is mostly: "Wow, I can't believe I got another one to sleep with me! Wow, this feels great."

Feel free to commence with comments along the line of "...and that's why you are a selfish, horrible lover!" I will point out that although I'm not always focused solely on the task at hand, I've never had too many complaints. And when I have, I was generally too drunk to care.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 22 (view)
 
mental stimulation?
Posted: 11/12/2010 1:35:09 PM


Usually, I find that men just looking for a liaison are shallow in their conversations, they lead to nothing.


For the sake of honesty, I have to admit that some of the 'deepest' conversations I've had with women in my life were women I was simply trying to get into bed. If I genuinely like a person, I feel that I have plenty of time to impress them and hold meaningful, intellectual conversations. When I'm just trying to get laid, I know I have a small window of time in which to get them hooked with how I'm acting and what I'm saying, so that later that night I can get their legs hooked over my shoulders.

As far as the original post, some people want to be mentally stimulated by the person they are with and some people want to be stimulated in other ways. There really is no clear-cut answer, it's on a case-to-case basis. What might work with one woman (e.g., presenting yourself to have clear and good intentions) might not work for another woman who is looking for something completely different in a partner.

I suggest being yourself when dealing with the opposite sex, assuming that 'yourself' is a good person who has a genuine capacity for caring and empathy. If in reality you are a person who is driven solely by sex and "getting yours," I'd probably recommend acting like a good person well enough so that the woman you are interested in doesn't pick up on your deception. By the way, if you are that second type of person, you can also try limiting yourself to chasing after a skankier class of women that share those same interests. But either way, you're never going to be able to mentally stimulate everyone you come across and you're never going to find a book or program that will help you be much better at it than you are now.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 133 (view)
 
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
Posted: 11/12/2010 10:54:01 AM
RushLuv,

I admire you for admitting that you've kept secrets in the past. It's human nature. And I really am trying to understand the points you are making, but in my mind it really is a harmless secret. I am all for telling her about his intentions for getting the test - f he knows that she isn't going to go ballistic and it will cause problems. However, if he knows that she would be unhappy with him taking the test or flat out leave him if he went ahead with it, I don't see an issue with keeping it to himself. Like I said before, the only harm that can come from the test is if she has been unfaithful and it isn't his. At that point, I have no pity for the woman or how upset it makes her to know he went behind her back.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 15 (view)
 
When a guy says he doesn't want kids does he mean it
Posted: 11/12/2010 1:19:03 AM
OP,

Here's a startling revelation for you: every person on this planet has individual wants and desires. There is simply no way anybody on here can tell you with any certainty "Oh, he's definitely going to want kids someday."

I think the best advice that I could give you is to stop worrying so much about the future and live your life. You're not a young schoolgirl fantasizing about the perfect outcome anymore. Based on the fact that you have children and yet aren't married to or with the father anymore seems to indicate that you are aware that sometimes life throws us curve balls and not everything works out the way we hope. The only way you are going to discover the answers you are looking for is by being with this guy and keeping healthy lines of communication open. And for the sake of your children, slow down a little bit and stop rushing it so much. As the first response pointed out (So_Write, I think), you have started several threads discussing moving in with this guy already. Is this really the best idea, considering the relatively new nature of the relationship and the fact that you obviously don't trust him to give you honest answers? No matter how much you care about the guy, and despite the fact that you both want a LTR, you don't KNOW yet how compatible you are and what issues are going to arise a little further down the line. And would it be fair to your children if you guys all moved in with this man and then things didn't work out?

Take the time to get to know him better. And think like a responsible parent and adult. Moving in together after a few weeks or months is a thing of fiction and couples on daytime television.

Good luck in whatever decision you make, and I hope your values and his match up nicely in the future.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 74 (view)
 
Looking at the clock during sex.
Posted: 11/12/2010 1:03:25 AM
^ O.o Wow.

And MistressChill, a man can most certainly fake an orgasm. I've done it with several different women when I was younger and was into hooking up just for hooking up's sake.

I would go so far as to say that we are even better at it than women. Especially if a condom is involved. Do you routinely check your partner's condom for the level of semen in it after sex?
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 122 (view)
 
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
Posted: 11/12/2010 12:40:56 AM
"Paranoid" is keeping one's own medical history a secret, while investigating the medical history of others for personal gain.


You are certainly drawing ample conclusions from the limited amount of information that the OP gave. What personal gain is the man in question getting from this?

You also have no evidence that this guy is simply trying to look for a way of getting out of being a parent. For all we know, he might have been wanting children for years. Now that he has one, he might be afraid of being let down ten years from now when/if he finds out if isn't truly his. There are plenty of cases year after year of men raising children that ultimately prove not to be theirs. In fact, a man can NEVER know for one hundred percent unless he has a paternity test done.

And as far as your 1 and 2 goes, ridiculous doesn't even begin to sum up the first point you tried to make. You are basing all of this on the assumption that he simply doesn't want to be a parent. I am sure that if he gets the test done and it proves he is in fact the father, even without having the sperm count done, he will take it at face value and believe the information he is given. In your mind, this guy is obviously a super-paranoid fool and will believe that the paternity testing center is out to fool him.

As far as number 2, the REAL point you seem to be trying to make it that he shouldn't have the test done because she might actually have cheated. So what, he is supposed to blindly raise the child and never question the possibilities or truth? And if she did stray, he is simply supposed to let her get away with it because bringing up the truth might hurt her feelings? Christ.

You seem to be in agreement with RushLuv and others that keeping a secret is 'wrong.' Do you think it might also be wrong to be presumptuous when you have little or no evidence to back up your claims?
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 119 (view)
 
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
Posted: 11/11/2010 11:32:23 PM
^ How is it invading her privacy exactly? As of right now, the assumption they are both going on is that it is THEIR child. He has a right to have any test done on or with that child that he deems necessary. He doesn't require anything from the woman to get the testing done. Where, exactly, is he infringing on her privacy?

As for your first point, I honestly see where you are going with this. And I see how it COULD potentially cause pain. I simply think that if she hasn't slept with anyone behind his back, there is absolutely no reason the test should cause anybody to be hurt. If she were an emotionally mature person, I don't think she would have a problem accepting the reasons why he wants to take the test. I'm all for him being upfront with her and telling her he intends to have the test done, but I'm also realistic enough to know that she probably WILL get upset if he brings it up. I also believe, like I've said before, that people have a right to their own decisions and secrets within a relationship.

Oh, and by the way, I don't think he is trying to gather this information to purposefully inflict emotional distress on her. I think he simply wants undisputed proof that the child is his. The fact remains that if the woman did not cheat, there should be no harm done at all. And if she did cheat, she has no one else to blame but herself for the pain the test causes.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 32 (view)
 
Flattering…Or Over-The-Top Creepy?
Posted: 11/11/2010 11:23:44 PM
Breathlesshush,

That was a great response. I'm sorry I made the assumption that you and "Susan" were one and the same. But I think it was great of you to take the time to touch on a lot of the points and opinions that people gave you.

Every relationship progresses at its own pace. Some people meet, fall in love and are married within three months; some take ten years before they make that decision. I stand by what I said before about protecting herself, but if "Susan" truly likes the guy after such a short amount of time and thinks he feels the same, she should follow her heart. She should be aware, however, that doing this opens her up to the very real possibility of being let down or crushed, but I suppose there's a chance it could actually work out for the best.

Next time you talk to her, give "Susan" some advice about coaching her emotions. Tell her it isn't wrong or creepy to get your hopes up, but as an adult she needs to limit them. The picture is a little too soon and can send the wrong message. What bothers me the most is that the guy in question said he LIKED that she had the picture as her background. It sounds to me like he might be emotionally needy himself, and can only feel validated when somebody is wanting him.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 117 (view)
 
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
Posted: 11/11/2010 10:04:39 PM
Your moral compasses seem aligned. You should see what you can make happen.

I'm not saying that keeping constant secrets is conducive to a healthy relationship, but you will notice that I stressed "harmless" secret. There is no law or rule anywhere that states you must tell your S.O. everything that happens to you or everything you do; in fact, that would be worse for a relationship than keeping a secret every once in awhile, I imagine. I'm completely surprised that there are people on these boards that actually imagine they have reached a stage of such moral and emotional enlightenment that they never tell a lie or, better yet, always tell the complete truth.

By the way, I was genuinely curious if your opinions about "complete honesty, all the time" held weight and spoke to several clinicians, therapists and psychologists that work with a family member at EHS, and I posed the question to them. "If I'm in a committed relationship, should I feel obligated to tell my significant other everything I do? Is it okay to keep a secret every now and then?" Surprisingly enough, not a single one made the case that you are a coward or wrong for trying to keep a level of privacy in your life. I was shocked.

Of course, what would they know about it? They only took classes for four, five, six years and immersed themselves in the ethical questions of human nature. You guys have your obviously superior moral fiber to guide you.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 115 (view)
 
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
Posted: 11/11/2010 9:39:37 PM

I don't see how hiding something from your S.O. makes you a coward.




You wouldn't.


Ouch. You're right, I'm obviously an underhanded coward for believing that a relationship or marriage doesn't mean giving up all of your rights to privacy. Once you are in a committed relationship, you shouldn't be able to have freedom of thought, either. Silly me.

And you can try to convince me and everyone else on these forums that you are some sort of morally superior person who never lies or keeps secrets, but I find myself in severe doubt. Are you the next step in human evolution, an automated drone with no sense of independence? I'll make sure to contact the Vatican and nominate you for Sainthood.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 96 (view)
 
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
Posted: 11/11/2010 11:49:12 AM

Oh Please, this isnt taking control of his own body, if he was all that concerned about that he would have gone to his DR long ago to get as much info as possible about whether or not he was sterile.


As many people on here have been happy to point out, apparently it is the rare case when a doctor can tell you with any certainty that you won't be able to father a child ever. Sometimes it just happens. He already has had a test done and does have info on it; from my understanding of the original post, the chances were labeled "slim" that he would ever be able to conceive a child. Like someone else has already pointed out on here before, why should he bother to go get his sperm count tested at this point in time, now that there is already a child? If it comes back low, he's in the same situation and still needs a paternity test.

RushLuv, I have certainly been following this thread and I don't see how hiding something from your S.O. makes you a coward. Just because you date or marry someone doesn't mean you don't still have private rights to your peace of mind and personal space. This is a fairly easy test that SHOULD be the norm these days, so I don't see how you can justify insulting the guy simply because he is considering doing it without her knowledge. Granted, everyone (including myself) is simply arguing in circles at this point. I doubt that you or anyone else saying this guy is wrong for considering the test or, gasp, considering doing it in secret can come up with a solid, legitimate reason WHY it is wrong. And "you shouldn't hide anything from the people you love" isn't a solid reason. Are you going to tell me you have never kept a harmless secret (which this is) from someone you cared about? The fact of the matter is, the only way him testing COULD cause harm to the relationship is if she was unfaithful.

On the flip side, I can't provide a single solid reason why I'm right in my opinion, either. From my perspective it is simply his right as a person living in a society that makes these sort of tests easy and quick, but if I give it the old college try and narrow my view a little bit, I can sort of, almost, not quite see where everyone is coming from when they bash this guy. :/
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 5 (view)
 
Flattering…Or Over-The-Top Creepy?
Posted: 11/11/2010 2:56:32 AM
To be honest OP, I find this to be pretty unsettling behavior. I think your/her sister was probably right to mention something. You/her aren't a teenager who should be overcome by obsessive infatuation within a few meetings. If you were 16 and put a photo of a boy you liked as your desktop background, that's one thing. But to be 40 and to put it on there, it's pretty creepy.

I can just picture things not working out and you/her cutting off his skin and wearing it around because you like being able to "look at him."

Also, a person in this situation needs to protect their own emotions. After two quick meetings and some phone calls, nobody has guaranteed you or can guarantee you any part of themselves. The simple fact is that he might meet somebody while out of town or decide things aren't going the direction he would like them to, and then you are stuck pining over a desktop photo for a guy you got yourself too wound up over too quickly in the first place. Take it slow and protect your own heart.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 75 (view)
 
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
Posted: 11/10/2010 10:57:39 PM
I maintain that it doesn't matter if he has a reason to suspect her or not. Getting a paternity test is simply not a big deal, and there is no reason the woman should be upset or offended if he has one. If the trust in your relationship is so fragile that having your partner take a paternity test would make you angry at them, then you probably shouldn't be having a child together anyway.

We live in an age where these tests are relatively quick and easy. If that is the case, then who cares if the guy wants one to put his mind at ease? It should be strictly his choice.

If my girlfriend says she wants to get an STD test done, I don't get angry at her because I assume it means she thinks I have slept with someone. I support her in it and accept the fact that is her body and she has the right to take any tests she damn well pleases.
 son_house
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 73 (view)
 
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
Posted: 11/10/2010 10:27:57 PM
Wow RushLuv. A little harsh, eh? How is he a coward for deciding to take control of his own body/genetics/future and going to get a test done?

I must be completely mistaken. Are WOMEN the only people that actually have rights to their bodies and their futures these days? I understand now! Men are supposed to just believe everything they are told and not make any waves, right?

You certainly seem like an angry feminist in the worst sort of way. O.o Or maybe just cruel and angry in general. Has some guy treated you like shit in the past, so you feel in appropriate and necessary to hurl names at this particular guy (the OP or his friend) for deciding to take charge in his life and find out the answer to an important question?
 son_house
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 30 (view)
 
Looking at the clock during sex.
Posted: 11/10/2010 9:52:47 PM

Oh man!!! What a LAME thing to say.
Either you want the BJ, or you want to watch the game.

SO F&*%$ what if you miss part of the game for F&*Ksake!?!?!?
It's all mumbojumbo BS at the beginning, and WHAT will you miss for just a few minutes ......
If your wife takes the time to put your****in your mouth I think SHE deserves YOUR FULL ATTENTION. Pretty sad really. Well you didn't deserve her going out of her way for you and Iwould have been there to let her practice on me all she wants and let her know how much I enjoy it. You'll be pretty lucky to have it next time and better appreciate HER time she gives you.

A game .... ?!?!?!?!?!?!? Unbelievable. I don't rant much but this is called for.


No offense, but it sounds like you're trying to make yourself seem like some amazingly appreciative guy to make yourself more appealing to the women on the PoF forums.

As far as the "you really didn't deserve her going out of her way..." comment, I for one am not going to sit there and gush appreciatively every single time the woman I'm in a relationship with gives me oral sex. That's ridiculous. It's part of a healthy sex life and I'm not going to stroke their ego and make them feel like they are going out of their way to do something amazing every time they do it. On the flip side, I certainly don't expect a pat on the back and a big 'thank you' every time I return the favor. Do you always thank your partner after you have sex? That just seems weird and insecure.

PS, like you said, the OP didn't originally start this to be about football, BUT if you're not a football fan of course you are going to think this is a crazy reason for checking your watch. Some people live for Sundays, Monday night and the occasional Thursday, though. And btw, a football game doesn't change its rules at half time. If you think it is just 'mumbojumbo BS' at the beginning, you probably think it is the same all the way through.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 47 (view)
 
Girlfriend says she is can't take my kid anymore
Posted: 11/10/2010 7:55:12 PM
Jezebellpgh:
When does a 5 yr old always act appropriately? What kid doesn't whine and carry on when it doesn't get what it wants? I work a 2nd job at Wallyworld part time as a Cashier. Kids come in their daily screaming and acting up, it's called being a kid.


That is ALSO bad parenting. Just because it is considered normal these days, doesn't make it right or acceptable.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 22 (view)
 
Looking at the clock during sex.
Posted: 11/10/2010 7:49:14 PM
Tina002:
I would be very angry, stop what I was doing and leave, or if you were at my place I would have you leave.


Wow, that seems like a bit of an overreaction. It also seems insecure.

tdh49:
Ahhh but there was. Philly was playing Indy and the game was about to start. I was checking to see how much time I had to wrap it all up. Needless to say I had plenty of time to watch football after I got caught. It was one hell of a football game so it in that regard it was worth it. Sex you can have anytime, but the NFL only comes around once a week.


It's crazy that you mention this, because I was busted by one of my exes several times for the EXACT same reason. Several times, it was also during a blow job, although I've done it during sex as well. Eventually I learned to give myself enough time before the game to finish and have enough time left to get some game time food cooking. She also learned to go along with this unofficial schedule, unless she wanted to be repeatedly reminded "But Green Bay kicks off in ten minutes."

I also bought a wall clock with those giant digital numbers that older adults use and hung it on the wall opposite my bed, so that with the next woman I dated it was a little less obvious.

And man, that Philly/Indy game was a gem. Vick looked great and it was nice to see Manning throw twice as many INTs as TDs. Way better than getting a blow job. :P Ha. Now only if I could find a woman willing to give me a b.j. DURING the game, I'd be set for life.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 73 (view)
 
What to do when feeling disconnected? (Specific situation)
Posted: 11/10/2010 6:01:46 PM
^ LOL I'm pretty sure that's a bit of an over-generalization. I have been in situations where I couldn't talk to someone I cared about for a period of time and, believe it or not, I still had feelings for them and I wasn't dead. That probably isn't the case here, but it does happen.

That would be like if I said "Women only stop calling you for two reasons: 1) They are screwing someone else like a whore or 2) They are too stupid to remember your number." You see? While probably true, it doesn't cover all situations.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 94 (view)
 
Twenty minutes and five dollars ..What?????
Posted: 11/10/2010 5:54:17 PM
Thanks for the well thought-out reply and for taking the time to explain the story in a little more detail. I understand you didn't have to do that, but I appreciate the clarification.

Like I said, I have had women do this same thing to me before, but generally a guy isn't opposed to a little physical gratification with someone he barely knows. More often than not I allow it to go on without saying anything to deter them, although if I'm overwhelmingly not attracted to them or they have some characteristic about their personality that I simply can't put up with (i.e., talking too loudly and a lot or general ****iness), I will ask them to stop or end the date early as well. It is never JUST the touching that gets me to cut it short, though; it's always a combination of the things I mentioned above.

I also appreciate the pointers. :D While I like to consider myself a gentleman and have never really tried to be overly physical on the first couple of dates, it is always good to keep those things in mind. I like your classifications of the different potential meanings during a make-out session, btw. Good stuff.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 39 (view)
 
Girlfriend says she is can't take my kid anymore
Posted: 11/10/2010 4:39:29 PM
^^^ I am pretty sure he has squatter's rights, so she can't just put him and his son on the street 'magically' one day. And if she were to destroy and throw out his stuff, she would be held legally responsible for it, assuming he could find a way to prove the value of it.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 210 (view)
 
do men want LT relationships with Bi-women?
Posted: 11/10/2010 4:37:02 PM
^^^ I'm not sure that is an accurate statement. I haven't seen a single study comparing the number of bisexual women to bisexual men. There are also many other factors to consider, not the least of which being it is often significantly easier and with much less negative stigma attached when a woman comes out as bisexual than when a man does. A man's response to finding out a girl he might date is bisexual is almost always overwhelmingly "Cool!" A woman's response is generally completely the opposite.

Not to mention it is considered a "hip" thing to do these days for girls in middle- and high-school to claim to be bisexual, so that would distort the numbers even further. And yes, I know this for a fact, having worked in several different schools for quite a few years.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 71 (view)
 
What to do when feeling disconnected? (Specific situation)
Posted: 11/10/2010 4:30:58 PM
^^^ Another Son House fan? Fantastic. His slide work was absolutely fantastic.

Of course, we know exactly how unlucky those old blues players were with women. Son House was married five times and Robert Johnson was poisoned over another man's wife!
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 92 (view)
 
Twenty minutes and five dollars ..What?????
Posted: 11/10/2010 4:27:04 PM
I respect this point that you make:

Just cuz you don't understand it now, don't say you'll "never" understand it. Why limit yourself? And if you never understand it, you could end up being one of those guys.
Well said.

I completely agree that a person's body is their own and only they get to dictate the terms on which other people get to experience it. I would never consider arguing against that. And I certainly hope I didn't come off as "one of those guys." I only meant that if a date is going well in every other respect, I simply can't see myself being willing to end it over unwanted physical contact as insignificant as a hand on the back or something along those lines. Now, I understand that this is probably easier for me to say and to believe as a guy, and that women need to be more aware of their bodies and to protect themselves. So, after considering it, I suppose I can understand why you left the date early.

You mention that finally you told him flat out it was inappropriate and you argued. Do you think it might have been better to tell him after the first instance, instead of waiting for it to happen several more times? The only reason I ask this is because many times in my life I have been in situations where a woman and I will be "making out," and I will ultimately reach for her chest and/or other feminine areas. Many times they will redirect your hand the first time or two, but the more you continue to kiss and neck, the better your chances are that eventually they WON'T move your hand. Do you think that perhaps you sent off these same vibes of "if you just keep trying, I will allow it" to the gentleman in question by not making it exceedingly clear the first time it happened?
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 65 (view)
 
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
Posted: 11/10/2010 4:14:38 PM
Peppermint, perhaps his mistake was in accusing her of cheating instead of simply stating the medical reasons that led him to want a test. But even with him accusing her, do you honestly think she was justified in leaving him for that? If she weren't so self-righteous and emotional, perhaps she could have taken a second to take into consideration those medical issues and realized that he had a valid reason for wanting the tests.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 20 (view)
 
How important is talking a fair amount or alot?
Posted: 11/10/2010 4:12:29 PM

This is a brilliant suggestion from Mistress Chill, OP. You might consider Toastmasters for yourself as well. I'm a former member myself and found the experience invaluable. It's a very inexpensive way to quickly improve your ability to speak (and listen!). There's no way you'll "suck at talking" after a year or so of participating in a good club in your area.


I don't know if I would say it was a "brilliant" suggestion, but it is certainly a good one. Definitely more than decent, I would say. You're certainly liberal with the praise, Elton Buddha.

:P I'm just playing around. But the thing to keep in mind about Toastmasters is that their dues have been increasing annually for quite a while now. While I suppose for some people the money would be worth it, I think there are many other (more cost efficient) ways to conquer a fear of speaking. I actually signed up at the local library as a volunteer to read community announcements each week, as well as to read books to children. The first time I sat down to read, I was nervous, sweaty and completely out of place (remember, this was a LARGE group of children and parents, about 60 in all). By week's end, I was improvising silly voices, acting the scenes out and having a great time along with everybody else. And I noticed that after doing this for awhile, I didn't mind speaking when I was in a group of people anymore.

Just something to keep in mind. Toastmasters is good if you have the time and money, but there are alternatives.
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 68 (view)
 
What to do when feeling disconnected? (Specific situation)
Posted: 11/10/2010 4:01:14 PM
How is it going, OP? Update?
 Son_House
Joined: 11/1/2010
Msg: 63 (view)
 
Kids Paternity (DNA) test - Do it secretly or inform the wife?
Posted: 11/10/2010 3:40:58 PM


My ex asked me for a paternity test after our son was born. While none of my actions or behaviors would suggest one was needed, I wasn't offended. I just laughed and told him to go for it. What did I care? However, if the test would have come back negative I would then have to have a maternity test done because it would have indicated the baby was switched at birth or something. I believe every man has a right to a paternity test and that it should be done at every birth as a matter of routine. They do a myriad of other testing so why not?


You've restored a lot of my faith in humanity, especially the female portion of it. :P Just playing, of course, but seriously...the points you make JUST. MAKE. SENSE. And the way you handled your ex's request for a paternity test was admirable and mature.
 
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