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Author
Thread: Changes to Forums.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
97 (
view
)
Changes to Forums.
Posted:
9/17/2008 11:36:08 AM
Was the Political Forum biased?
In the end that matters little to me.
I came to the Current Event/Political Forums to get differing views.
I don't get all my news from one source, and I certainly did not wish to read and respond to opinions that were just like mine.
That's the sad part.
I was influenced, and I am sure I influenced others...or at least opened minds.
I often just scrolled past the drivel to get to the guts anyway.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
28 (
view
)
Changes to Forums.
Posted:
9/17/2008 5:28:42 AM
It was fun, and a learning experience while it lasted.
To get new veiws and opinions whilst expressing your own I thought was a very good thing.
In one respect I can see why, but trolls and bad postings are not limited to Politics and Current Events.
And can it only be 200?
Wow...here I thought I was discussing my thoughts with many.
Now if you could only delete the political dialogue on the street...that sure would make life easier huh? I personally think it is a cop-out.
I guess I will spend less time here.
To all my friends and foes in the Political Forum....THANKS.
Wolves-Lower
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
6 (
view
)
Palin and the Polar Bears
Posted:
9/12/2008 5:34:16 AM
But you have to admit,
She would look good in one of those clasic pin up girl poses on a Polar Bear Rug,
Sans Glasses of course,
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
51 (
view
)
The largest single stroke of Socialism in American History!!!
Posted:
9/9/2008 12:24:36 PM
Exodusi,
C'mon man! I don't think anyone is laying the blame all on the homeowners. But we need to realize that the Borrowers DID play a role!
You are an economic guru.
Tell me this.
Would there be a mortgage crisis if no risky sub-prime loans were made to individuals who shouldn't even qualify for a loan?
If you blame the home owners, you are not a person I would EVER want to know in real life, I don't waste my time on this planet associating with such despicable people!
Not putting all the blame on them. But I am saying individual borrowers need to educate themselves on WHAT IS THE LOAN AND THE TERMS.
Do people not think anymore?
Better yet, do they Save anymore?
What happened to saving for a downpayment?
People just plain old over extended themselves.
They wanted money and they wanted NOW...there is a price for that.
And I know you would sit on my deck, have a drink of choice and debate this regardless of me saying that the Borrowers hold culpability
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
7 (
view
)
the Quiet Surge
Posted:
9/9/2008 9:49:27 AM
There's a need to reinforce Afghanistan quickly, and those forces haven't been as large as they should have been to effectively do what's need to be done.
For too long, that loads been carried by a combat force composed of Americans, British, Canadian, and Dutch troops - who've fought a good fight, but with far lower numbers than should have been on the ground there in the first place.
We've also got to push our European allies , like Germany (and others) , to get their troops in country there off their bases and into combat alongside us - or we may lose this one in the long run.
I totally agree.
You are a conundrum MG, no offense, but I am not sure that both parties would support this thought.
And reading your postings I obviously know who you support.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
44 (
view
)
The largest single stroke of Socialism in American History!!!
Posted:
9/9/2008 9:36:44 AM
Fly,
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ Off topic. On topic is the fact that consumers shouldn't be buying houses that are above their means. Relying on a better real estate market, higher income down the road, or the ability to refinance is like rolling the dice in Vegas.
I'm sure if any of these folks grandparents were asked to make such hairbrained financial decisions they would have gone running in the opposite direction.
Our grandparents all worked to pay that mortgage off. Even my father-in-law, who earned a very modest income, paid his house off before he retired. Few baby boomers will be in this position before they retire, and the reason for this is that they live above their means.
It might have been off topic, but a response was called for. Bills statement was pure BS.
And I am in total agreement with your statement.
Times have changed, as we can all see.
We go for the short term self satisfaction. We have cooperate CEO's selling everybody down the river...all for personal gain.
My Grandad as well would have never taken out some risky loan like the ones offered, and neither would I. My Grandad had the forethought to think of the future generations...these guys could care less.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
35 (
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The largest single stroke of Socialism in American History!!!
Posted:
9/9/2008 9:10:36 AM
Go to link, read, get furious and puke!!! Good old fashion Liberalism on display whereby blame the Reps, lie to the lap dog media and fleece the tax payers while lining Liberal pockets.
Ok, I read the article and I saw no mention of Clinton or the Good old fashioned Liberalsim on display. What I did see was greed at work.
Especially at the very top.
Are you going to tell me with a straight face that the lobbyist employed were lobbying mainly Democrats?
Give me a break.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
32 (
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The largest single stroke of Socialism in American History!!!
Posted:
9/9/2008 8:11:46 AM
I notice the Libs are not talking much about who have been running Freedie and Fanny. All Clinton peeps who have bilked millions of dollars from each and have spread millions of dollars over DC with vast majority going to Lib Pols. The Libs opposed the elimination of lobbying efforts in the bailout. Makes one wonder why? Could it be the Libs care more about lining their pockets than the people?
You wanna prove that with a link or resource?
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
31 (
view
)
The largest single stroke of Socialism in American History!!!
Posted:
9/9/2008 8:08:20 AM
I'm certainly not saying that the borrowers are not responsible for the paper they sign, but in the same fashion the institutions are responsible for not making loans that they cannot support should they borrowers begin to be unable to pay.
We agree.
But the OP laid the fault at the steps of one party.
I don't buy that and won't sign...no matter if it makes us feel good or not.
As I laid out earlier, many players made this crisis happen.
And the unfortunate thing is that it put us on this path of a "Bail Out".
Many greedy people will get rich out of this.
Many will lose their homes.
We all will pay.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
25 (
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The largest single stroke of Socialism in American History!!!
Posted:
9/9/2008 7:27:08 AM
umm what makes you think they "lied" on the applications? banks have pretty rigourous processes to make sure your financials are right. Or they are supposed to anyway.
See that is one of the problems...and lenders/borrowers played the game.
Borrowers deffinately lied on applications. Rigourous process? LOL...
Money lent was money made. Have you seen some of the debt numbers Americans carry? They are as bad as the Government!
Inflated equity so borrowers could even borrow more!
Give me a break...I personally know of a half dozen individuals that got home loans that shouldn't of.
There were plenty of players in this crisis. You have to hold the individuals responsible as well.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
22 (
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The largest single stroke of Socialism in American History!!!
Posted:
9/9/2008 6:48:02 AM
and this is the borrowers fault?
Borrowers play a role in what has happened with the crisis.
If they perhaps didn't lie on applications and such.
Don't get me wrong here. I am just saying..."Hey they played a role in this crisis."
I wouldn't take out risky loans that would jepordize my fututre...I am responsible.
People need to learn what they can afford.
The bad part is , as stated, that loan companies were even allowed to do this.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
20 (
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)
Significant lead in polls for McCain
Posted:
9/9/2008 6:01:37 AM
Polls ebb and flow.
I am more worried about what actually takes place on election day...privately in the voting booth.
Will the real independent swing voters pull the lever for the so called party of Change?
Or will they shake and tremble and pull for the Devil they know?
The Typical undecided American mind will make that snap judgement within seconds in that booth.
This is going to be a real race of epic proportions.
If you think Bush/Gore was bad...belt in baby.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
16 (
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)
The largest single stroke of Socialism in American History!!!
Posted:
9/9/2008 5:36:54 AM
You have got to be kidding me.
You want to just pin this on the Republicans?
Your partisian is showing Ex. which is ok I still like ya!
Whoa...
This baggage belongs to both parties and money hungry investors.. The crisis has meandered through several acts, taken numerous plot twists and involved an ever-growing cast of characters.
Link:http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2008/07/23/20080723biz-CreditCrisisEvolution0724.html
The players:
Real estate agents
What happened: Agents and brokers worked on the front lines. They showed properties, put buyers in touch with lenders and earned commissions. They dealt with appraisers and title officers, who also wanted to see deals close so they could generate fees. On balance, real estate marketers contributed to the hype and glossed over problems such as risky loans and minimal down payments. Many probably believed real estate prices could never fall. Case in point: The chief economist of the National Association of Realtors (NAR) wrote a book during the bubble titled “Why the Real Estate Boom Will Not Bust – and How You Can Profit From It.”
Current situation: Agents, brokers, appraisers, title officers and others tied to residential real estate have been hurt, with commissions and fee income drying up and many leaving the business. As a plus, real estate professionals have become more attuned to negative-amortization and other risky loans, and more aware of the drawbacks of directing people into homes they can't afford.
Next act: Residential real estate already enjoys some of the best income-tax breaks around, including the mortgage-interest deduction and ability to exclude capital gains on primary residences. Still, the industry wants more tax assistance, with the NAR and other groups backing passage of federal stimulus such as a tax credit for first-time buyers.
Home builders
What happened: Residential developers rode the crest of the real estate wave. Critics believe many builders inflated demand by dangling various incentives to buyers, including financing. “Builders jumped into the mortgage business to a degree they never had,” read a Business Week article. Shares of building companies emerged as Wall Street darlings, with hefty executive-pay packages. Some builders eventually clamped down on purchases by investors and speculators but it wasn't a universal practice. These absentee buyers were among the first to bail when prices started heading south.
Current situation: Builders got swamped when the wave finally broke. Some firms failed or had to reorganize. On Wall Street, homebuilders got slammed, with a Dow Jones index of home-construction stocks losing 70 percent of its value since its inception in May 2006. But industry employment hasn't suffered as much as predicted because commercial and public projects have taken up some slack.
Next act: The building industry also seeks federal tax help including the credit for first-time buyers to stoke demand. The National Association of Home Builders said it has “initiated an all-out effort to get Congress to pass badly needed stimulus legislation.” In a hopeful sign, homebuilder stock prices have stabilized in recent weeks — a possible signal the worst is over.
Lenders
What happened: Mortgage brokers, banks and other lenders provided the funds so that unqualified applicants could buy homes. Brokers don't lend their own money but serve as middlemen, collecting commissions but sometimes without much regard to whether borrowers can make payments. Many banks weren't much better, selling loans to third-party investors while collecting fees. It didn't help that lenders unveiled innovative but risky mortgages, such as negative-amortization and optional-payment loans. Plus, many brokers and lenders never verified a borrower's job status, income or assets because they were passing the risk along.
Current situation: Many lenders have paid a steep price for their involvement. Hundreds of mortgage firms have failed or have been taken over, including Countrywide Financial, IndyMac Bank and Ameriquest. Banks have reported a surge in non-performing assets and have had to scramble to put up reserves to cover those losses. Industry profits are down sharply.
Next act: Many banks aren't lending as much money now, and it's uncertain when that will change. Also, lenders aren't using risky mortgages as much, and they're paying closer attention to the application process. Banks are watching carefully for payment problems on auto loans, credit cards and other types of loans.
Borrowers
What happened: Before the crisis hit, homeownership seemed more attainable than ever. Because many of the newest home buyers had borderline credit, they could qualify only for risky subprime loans. Many borrowers didn't understand their loan terms, especially the potential for payments to spike when low teaser rates expired. Nor were all borrowers honest, with some studies estimating most subprime applicants lied or omitted key information. Some borrowers may have tried harder to adjust to higher monthly payments but gave up when slumping prices left them owing more than their homes were worth.
Current situation: The homeownership rate peaked above 69 percent in 2004, but now it's dropping. Blacks and Hispanics have been especially hard hit, as they took out a large slice of subprime loans. Credit on mortgages and other loans has gotten tighter for borderline borrowers. Delinquencies and foreclosures further have damaged credit scores for many borrowers.
Next act: Many individuals have put homeownership on hold while they grapple with credit-score damage from delinquent payments and foreclosures. In the future, more people will have to buy homes the old-fashioned way — by scrapping together a down payment.
Investors
What happened: Lenders packaged the subprime mortgages they generated for resale to investors on Wall Street, thus transferring risk down the line. These bondlike investments seemed appealing because they offered enticing yields for what buyers thought were low risks during a period of skimpy interest rates. Yet investors far removed from the mortgage-origination process didn't understand the risks they were assuming. Some hedge funds bought these securities with heavy use of leverage and got slammed when the market froze. The Bear Stearns collapse stemmed largely from the firm's hedge-fund exposure.
Current situation: Investors have borne much of the brunt of the subprime mess and broadening credit crunch, from players such as Bear Stearns to financial giants such as Merrill Lynch and Citigroup, both of which were forced to raise cash. The market for some debt instruments froze. Even the stock market swooned because of the crisis' impact on the economy and erosion of confidence.
Next act: The crisis slowed the packaging of mortgages and other assets into securities but won't stop it. Still, investors now demand more information about these deals and higher returns. Critics want more regulation of hedge funds, those secretive partnerships that seem to pop up in each crisis.
Federal Reserve
What happened: Many blame the central bank under Alan Greenspan for keeping interest rates too low and for boosting the nation's money supply too much. This created an easy-credit environment that encouraged less-qualified home buyers. It also created a period of such low yields that many investors sought better returns in securities backed by subprime mortgages. Critics also say the central bank encouraged investors to take too much risk because of its implied help in arranging bailouts — the “moral hazard” idea. A precedent was set when the Fed helped rescue a prominent hedge fund in 1998.
Current situation: Once the crisis broke, the Fed acted aggressively and in various ways to contain it. The central bank cut interest rates to perk up the economy and provided easier credit to banks, Wall Street firms and even mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to prevent a cascade of failures. The Fed now is moving more slowly, trying not to stoke inflationary pressure.
Next act: The Fed has changed its role, transforming itself into a lender of last resort for financial firms beyond just commercial banks. Chairman Ben Bernanke is asking for broader powers from Congress to help the Fed oversee a more complex financial landscape.
Other regulators
What happened: U.S. and state banking-oversight agencies, including the Fed here too, are accountable and probably deserve some blame for allowing excesses to multiply, from lax underwriting to the prevalence of mortgages with negative amortization and other risky features. Also, regulators didn't seem especially concerned by the concentration of some banks' lending portfolios in real estate — a problem that plagues Arizona. On the other hand, regulator attitudes are somewhat understandable considering residential real estate had never suffered a national slump like the current one. Few people saw the train wreck coming.
Current situation: Bank regulators are trying to put out the brush fires from the credit crisis in the form of bank failures. Only five banks have gone under so far in 2008, but the list is growing and includes a big subprime-loan specialist, IndyMac Bank, the second-largest failure. Regulators haven't banned most types of risky mortgages, but market forces have discouraged their use.
Next act: Look for changes in the regulatory landscape. The Treasury Department wants clearer roles and fewer government regulators. In a related vein, it also seeks optional oversight of insurance firms at the federal level to complement the current system of state-only regulation.
Rating agencies
What happened: Firms including Standard & Poor's and Moody's rate bonds to help investors analyze the risk and return trade-off. Critics say the rating agencies masked the crisis by giving inflated grades to mortgage-backed securities underpinned by subprime loans. Critics also contend the rating agencies harbored actual or perceived conflicts of interest, because the investment banks that packaged those securities for sale to investors are the ones who paid for the ratings. Of note, the diversification created by linking dozens of mortgages to a given security didn't help lessen risk as expected.
Current situation: The credit-rating agencies have gotten tougher in their grading of mortgage-backed securities and have announced steps to reduce actual or perceived conflicts of interest. Downgrades of mortgage securities raise an interesting issue, because pension funds and some other investors can hold only those bonds with sufficiently high grades and will have to dump lower-rated ones.
Next act: As long as investors demand a shorthand way to assess risk, bond ratings will have a place. Still, critics would like to see the cost of ratings paid by investors rather than the firms that sell bonds. Some critics also call for agencies to split the rating side of their business from debt-consulting roles.
White House and Congress
What happened: It's a stretch to blame the administration for the crisis, but government policy has for years encouraged homeownership through tax breaks and other incentives. Also, banks are required to offer loans to lower-quality borrowers under the Community Reinvestment Act. Under President Bush, the White House has become a vocal proponent of consumer spending to keep the economy afloat (as in the aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks). Such policies can be viewed as antagonistic to saving. That's notable because many subprime borrowers made little or no down payments, in part because they had little cash to put down.
Current situation: The White House and Treasury have spearheaded various efforts to ease the crisis, from asking lenders to delay interest-rate resets on subprime loans to asking lenders to hold off on some foreclosures. The White House and Congress also agreed on this year's stimulus tax rebates to boost consumer spending and mute fallout on the economy from the credit crunch.
Next act: Congress and the White House are working on a mortgage-relief bill that would let tens of thousands of strapped borrowers refinance into lower-cost loans backed by the Federal Housing Administration. Future legislation will hinge on who wins the election.
Foreigners
What happened: The subprime mess is mostly a domestic issue, but it has shown up in a few other nations, including Britain. Dozens of foreign banks and investors took big stakes in U.S. mortgage securities. More fundamentally, many believe aggressive foreign purchases of U.S. Treasury bonds, especially by the Chinese, kept interest rates here artificially low while the crisis was building. That may have allowed more borderline borrowers to qualify for mortgages and encouraged speculation in general. Those purchases were made possible by China's big trade surplus with the United States.
Current situation: Foreign banks from Europe to Asia have suffered notable losses from their exposure to U.S. subprime bonds, and global stock markets have tumbled in lockstep. Still, foreigners, including controversial government-controlled investment funds, have stepped up to the plate with cash infusions, helping to stabilize firms like Merrill Lynch and Citigroup.
Next act: Foreigners have been big investors in America since colonial days, and that won't change. In fact, foreigners may become more critical in supplying capital to U.S. firms. Sovereign investment funds controlled by various foreign governments will continue to come under scrutiny.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
46 (
view
)
HOW TO LOOK GOOD NAKED
Posted:
9/8/2008 8:33:48 AM
Good questions.
I have never seen this show.
But I do think to many people are overly concerned about their bodies.
I worry especially about young women, mainly because I have a 16 year old daughter.
**Minor exception being Dove, and their Campaign For Real Beauty who did acknowledge "real" women come in all shapes and sizes.**
What a great ad campaign stance. I applaud Dove for those ads.
I have never been ashamed of my body...I yam what a yam.
I think people are to uptight about what others think anyway, and this is obvious when it comes to fashion and trends.
Heck I like to get dressed up and look good...but sometimes I feel better in a pair of overalls or just naked.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
1780 (
view
)
It looks like McCain's VP pick is Sarah Palin
Posted:
9/5/2008 11:24:08 AM
What is this new concept of so many republicans claiming they didn't vote for Dubya? I don't get it, why lie about it? What purpose does it serve? Do you think YOU are going to convince a swing vote because you claim to be a former Dem?
I will stand here and say that I Wolves-Lower did vote for W Twice.
Hindsight is 20/20. I wish I could change my vote after the last 4 years. Truth be known I did not care for Gore our Kerry.
Besides, far more former Republicans are shifting to Obama, so the swing the other direction doesn't even make sense!
That is the truth. I think more moderate Republicans are going to swing for Obama.
But right now there are many undecided voters.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
139 (
view
)
Palin Bombshell about to be exposed?
Posted:
9/5/2008 11:03:00 AM
Education and communication is the key.
We as parents must educate and tell our children about sex/birth control/STD's.
<div class="quote"> My children have a far lower chance of creating a child or contracting and STD, because I did my job as a parent! Palin, on the other hand, has NOT!
That’s a little over the top. No matter how much you educate your child, kids do make mistakes. We are all human, Palin’s child as well.
I am well educated, so when I educate my children, it ENHANCES their understanding of the world.
You don't have to be well educated to teach your children about the world and sex. Common sense, love of knowledge, love for you children can bridge any gap.
Ex...I love your style and postings, but I think everybody on this board knows how educated you are. No offense but its kind of getting braggy at this point.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
663 (
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The Republican Convention 08
Posted:
9/5/2008 10:46:00 AM
Ya know what my big fear is?
We are back at Square ONE, no matter who wins this election.
The Political Divide keeps getting larger.
The bitterness gets ever more bitter.
You see it on these boards and hear it on the streets.
There seems to be less common ground then ever.
And the issues get more pathetic.
Democrats win the Republicans will smear and not cooperate.
Republicans win the Democrats will smear and not cooperate.
Meanwhile this Nation continues to slide, and work continues to be done.
It is ALL our faults...US included.
I love politics.
It used to be about the give and take with a dash of respect thrown in. Gone are the masters of debate and political persuasions.
Long Gone are those days.
I watched both Conventions and they BOTH were no more then an extensive Live Cheerleader session.
I am sorry but I see little differences between the two parties’s anymore other then rhetoric.
They pit us to think there is difference...but in reality we are just cheering for Team Colors and booing the opposing team (no matter if the issue is right or wrong).
Someone else said it best when they said,
>>>>>oh Look! A dancing Bannana!>>>>
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
50 (
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Sarah Palin Flew From Texas to Alaska After Her Water Broke?
Posted:
9/5/2008 7:32:12 AM
These subjects on the forums are getting pretty pathetic.
I think I will ask the Mods to have an Politic/National Enquirer forum instead of a Politic forum.
This just in....
John McCain refuses to shake hands with Bristol's boyfriend...Claims Boy has Sasquatch tendencies..perhaps hairy hands.
Blah!
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
12 (
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Who has the right temperament to be a great leader?
Posted:
9/4/2008 11:13:13 AM
- Sen. McCain Had A Heated Exchange With Sen. Charles Grassley (R-IA) And Called Him A “F*cking Jerk.” “Senators are not used to having their intelligence or integrity challenged by another senator. ‘Are you calling me stupid?’ Sen. Chuck Grassley once inquired during a debate with McCain over the fate of the Vietnam MIAs, according to a source who was present. ‘No,’ replied McCain, ‘I’m calling you a f—ing jerk!’ (Grassley and McCain had no comment.)” (Evan Thomas, et al., “Senator Hothead,” Newsweek, 2/21/00)
HAHA!
I remember that.
Of course I am no fan of Grassley, so I thought it was funny.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
2 (
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Attacks, praise stretch truth at GOP convention
Posted:
9/4/2008 9:12:48 AM
I like the whopper by Huckabee best!
Politicains stretch the truth, especially at the big party events.
They are no more then cheerleaders at their respective conventions.
Just for fun lets fact-check Obama's speach.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_obama.html
FactChecking Obama
August 29, 2008
He stuck to the facts, except when he stretched them.
Summary
We checked the accuracy of Obama's speech accepting the Democratic nomination, and noted the following:
Obama said he could “pay for every dime” of his spending and tax cut proposals “by closing corporate loopholes and tax havens.” That’s wrong – his proposed tax increases on upper-income individuals are key components of paying for his program, as well. And his plan, like McCain’s, would leave the U.S. facing big budget deficits, according to independent experts.
He twisted McCain’s words about Afghanistan, saying, “When John McCain said we could just 'muddle through' in Afghanistan, I argued for more resources.” Actually, McCain said in 2003 we “may” muddle through, and he recently also called for more troops there.
He said McCain would fail to lower taxes for 100 million Americans while his own plan would cut taxes for 95 percent of “working” families. But an independent analysis puts the number who would see no benefit from McCain’s plan at 66 million and finds that Obama’s plan would benefit 81 percent of all households when retirees and those without children are figured in.
Obama asked why McCain would "define middle-class as someone making under five million dollars a year"? Actually, McCain meant that comment as a joke, getting a laugh and following up by saying, "But seriously ..."
Obama noted that McCain’s health care plan would "tax people’s benefits" but didn’t say that it also would provide up to a $5,000 tax credit for families.
He said McCain, far from being a maverick who’s "broken with his party," has voted to support Bush policies 90 percent of the time. True enough, but by the same measure Obama has voted with fellow Democrats in the Senate 97 percent of the time.
Obama said "average family income" went down $2,000 under Bush, which isn't correct. An aide said he was really talking only about "working" families and not retired couples. And – math teachers, please note – he meant median (or midpoint) and not really the mean or average. Median family income actually has inched up slightly under Bush.
Analysis
Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama accepted his party's nomination Aug. 28, speaking before more than 84,000 people in Denver's Mile High football stadium. Some of his comments were worthy of a ref's yellow flag.
Not Quite Every Dime
Obama reassured voters that he can pay for all his spending proposals:
Obama: Now, many of these plans will cost money, which is why I’ve laid out how I’ll pay for every dime – by closing corporate loopholes and tax havens that don’t help America grow.
This is misleading. Even by his own campaign’s estimates, closing corporate loopholes and tax havens won’t pay for all of Obama’s new plans. In July, the campaign told the Los Angeles Times that they estimate the yearly cost of their proposed tax cuts at $130 billion. They put revenue from closing tax loopholes at just $80 billion. Obama also proposes to raise taxes to pre-Bush levels for families earning more than $250,000 a year and singles making more than $200,000, yielding additional revenue. But he didn't mention that in his speech.
But Obama’s claim is misleading on another level. According to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, "without substantial cuts in government spending" Obama’s plan – and McCain's, too – "would substantially increase the national debt over the next ten years." Obama spokesman Tommy Vietor told FactCheck.org that the Tax Policy Center's analysis "fails to take in account Senator Obama's spending cuts, including ending the Iraq war." That's true, but Obama's proposed cuts are dwarfed by the Tax Policy Center's projected deficits. Obama’s new spending programs might be completely offset by new revenue and spending cuts. But overall spending will still exceed overall revenue, and the nation would face at least 10 more years of annual deficits.
Afghan Muddle
Obama twisted McCain's words about Afghanistan, incorrectly implying that McCain saw no need for more troops there.
Obama: When John McCain said we could just “muddle through” in Afghanistan, I argued for more resources and more troops to finish the fight against the terrorists who actually attacked us on 9/11
Actually, McCain said in 2003 that the U.S. "may" muddle through, not that we could or would. He also said he was very concerned about a rise in al Qaeda activity there. He said then that he was "guardedly optimistic" that the government could handle it.
McCain, 2003: I think Afghanistan is dicey. I think that there are certain areas of the country, particularly along the Pakistani border, that are clearly not under the control of either Pakistan or the Afghan government. ... There has been a rise in al Qaeda activity along the border. There has been some increase in U.S. casualties. I am concerned about it, but I'm not as concerned as I am about Iraq today, obviously, or I'd be talking about Afghanistan. But I believe that if Karzai can make the progress that he is making, that – in the long term, we may muddle through in Afghanistan.
So I'm guardedly optimistic, but I am also realistic that the central government in Kabul has very little effect on the policies and practices of the warlords who control the surrounding areas.
Recently, however, both candidates have called for an increased troop presence in Afghanistan. In July, Obama proposed sending two more combat brigades, drawn down from Iraq. McCain immediately followed this with a call for three more brigades, but later clarified that some of those troops would be NATO forces. A McCain spokeswoman said that the U.S. would "contribute" troops to the increase under McCain's plan.
Tax Spin
Obama said: “I will cut taxes ... for 95 percent of all working families.” And he said McCain proposes “not one penny of tax relief to more than 100 million Americans,” a claim his running mate, Joe Biden, made the night before.
Obama is right about his plan's effect on working families. More broadly, though, the plan cuts taxes for 81.3 percent of all households in 2009, according to the Tax Policy Center. The TPC also says McCain’s tax plan would leave 65.8 million households without a cut, not 100 million.
The TPC’s calculations factor in what's in effect a hidden tax on individuals that results from taxing corporations. McCain proposes to lower the corporate income tax rate, and Obama proposes billions of dollars in increased corporate taxes in the form of “loophole closings.” Individuals wouldn’t experience those changes as an increased tax bill from the government, but both the Congressional Budget Office and TPC allocate all corporate tax to owners of capital rather than to consumers. That means rather than flowing through to consumers in the form of higher prices or lower wages, corporate tax changes would show up as higher or lower returns on investments, which typically come in the form of corporate dividends, and profits or losses from stock sales.
Only by ignoring the hidden benefit to individuals can McCain’s plan be said to produce no cut for 100 million households. According to a calculation the TPC did at FactCheck's request, 101.9 million see no benefit if the effects of a corporate reduction are set aside.
For the record, Obama aides say the indirect effect on holders of capital won't be as large as TPC says. "We dispute TPC's methodology here," says Brian Deese of the Obama campaign. He says several of the "loophole closers" that Obama is proposing won't affect corporations or are on offshore activity that will not directly filter through.
We'd also note that retirees would fare quite a bit less well than working families under Obama's tax plan: The TPC estimates that 32 percent of households with a person over age 65 would see a tax increase.
Rich Humor
Obama used a clumsy attempt at humor by McCain as evidence of his supposed insensitivity to middle-class economic realities:
Obama: Now, I don't believe that Senator McCain doesn't care what's going on in the lives of Americans; I just think he doesn’t know. Why else would he define middle-class as someone making under five million dollars a year?
What McCain actually said at the Saddleback Church forum on Aug. 16 was that he favors low taxes for all income levels. He drew a laugh, then said, "but seriously" as he struggled to make his point:
Pastor Rick Warren, Aug. 16: [G]ive me a number, give me a specific number - where do you move from middle class to rich?
McCain: I don't want to take any money from the rich – I want everybody to get rich. ... So, I think if you are just talking about income, how about $5 million?
(LAUGHTER)
But seriously, I don't think you can - I don't think seriously that - the point is that I'm trying to make here, seriously – and I'm sure that comment will be distorted – but the point is that we want to keep people's taxes low and increase revenues.
Health Care Half Truths
Obama gave only half the story when he described a feature of McCain's health care plan:
Obama: How else could he offer a health care plan that would actually tax people’s benefits...
McCain proposes to grant families up to a $5,000 tax credit to use for health benefits. The flip side of that proposal, which McCain seldom if ever mentions, is that the value of employer-sponsored benefits would also become taxable. Both candidates are trading in half-truths here; McCain talks only about the pleasurable side of his plan, while Obama's speech mentioned only the painful aspect. Neither gives a complete picture.
Party Hearties
Obama painted McCain as a Republican partisan who's supported the unpopular President Bush consistently:
Obama: And next week, we'll also hear about those occasions when he's broken with his party as evidence that he can deliver the change that we need. But the record's clear: John McCain has voted with George Bush 90 percent of the time.
It's true that McCain's voting support for Bush policies has averaged slightly above 89 percent since Bush took office, according to Congressional Quarterly’s vote studies. But it has ebbed and flowed. It reached a low of 77 percent in 2005. Last year it was 95 percent. By comparison, Obama's own record of supporting Bush policies has averaged slightly under 41 percent since the senator took office. However, Obama's voting record is no less partisan than McCain's. He has voted in line with his party an average of nearly 97 percent of the time. The truth is that neither candidate can claim a strong record of "breaking with his party" if Senate votes are the measure.
He Didn't Mean It
Obama also pulled some sleight of hand when he stated that "the average American family" saw its income "go down $2,000" under George Bush. That's not correct. Census figures show average family income went down $348.
As it turns out, when Obama said "average family income," he didn't mean "average," and he didn't mean "family," either. An Obama aide says he was really referring to median income – which is the midpoint – and not to the average. And Obama was talking only about "working families," not retired couples.
For all families, median family income actually inched up under Bush by $272.
That was fun indeed.
Now if we are talking "Who Lied the Biggest"
RNC hands down winners.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
3 (
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McCain-Palin vs. Obama-Biden: The Main Event
Posted:
9/4/2008 7:36:31 AM
This country is so split it is hard to say.
I would guess that Obama/Biden walk away with it.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
6 (
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Is John McCain TOO OLD to be President?
Posted:
9/4/2008 7:34:44 AM
He isn't to old to be President, he just might not be the guy to be President.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
17 (
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John Deere Plant Closure-800 workers to be unemployed
Posted:
9/4/2008 7:27:24 AM
Deere and Co, started near my hometown of Waterloo Iowa.
Deere probably mismanaged things
Deere rarely mismanages things anymore, unlike the early 80's.
After the recession of the 80's Deere remangaged everything from employee wages, to out sourcing.
One of the big things they did is to open plants in Mexico, Brazil and Germany.
In the early 2000's Deere found themselves burdened with an aged work force. So they made a bold move with new hires, with Union approval, to give new hires significantly less pay and benefits.
In 1999 an average Deere worker here in Iowa was well over $25 an hour plus generous benefits. Today those new hires make $12 an hour with limited benefits.
That is what you get with Globalization and a sell out Older Union.
It doesn't suprise me on bit that Deere is closing a plant.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
11 (
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Sarah Palin Flew From Texas to Alaska After Her Water Broke?
Posted:
9/3/2008 11:55:19 AM
You are really stretching on this one.
I personally might have made different decisions, but I am not her.
Could be Family issues
Specific Doctors she wanted
For Insurance purposes be in a certain network ( haha)
In the end...what does it say about the judgement of someone who could very likely be president?
I am not even going to name names...but I can think of more then a couple of Presidents that have had some crappy judgement...and they were the Presidents at the time!
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
196 (
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The Republican Convention 08
Posted:
9/3/2008 9:38:18 AM
meanwhile Obama is going on O'Reilly....
Really?
Now will Obama actually get to talk?
Or will it all be O'Reilly yelling?
I have no idea what polls your reading!! There a poll for what ever you want to hear I guess!
The Gallup Pole has Obama over 50 just today.
Things will tighten up with out a doubt, but I don't forsee a R in the Whitehouse any time in the next 4.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
90 (
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Do Democrats and Republicans really hate eachother?
Posted:
9/2/2008 8:54:38 AM
Nah...Democrats and Republicans don't hate each other.
We are closer then you think in the end.
I think it is more the Team Mentality.
My Team is better then your Team because we are Blue and you are Red...etc...
Americans love to take sides, often without even of thinking why.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
175 (
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It looks like McCain's VP pick is................................
Posted:
8/29/2008 12:16:32 PM
Just practicing my barf Icon.
: 38 :
Oh that feels better.
Reading all this is making me a little upset.
You have to admit this is going to be fun for everyone.
: 38 :
Dang...I can't barf!
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
94 (
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It looks like McCain's VP pick is................................
Posted:
8/29/2008 10:41:51 AM
bitnomadic,
She might appeal to some, but if McCain thinks that a right-wing, anti-choice, homophobic.
You got two outa three.
I would hardly call a politician that votes to give benefits to same sex couples homophobic.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
63 (
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It looks like McCain's VP pick is................................
Posted:
8/29/2008 9:56:40 AM
But Sarah Palin is no Hillary Clinton.
You got that right.
She seems to take on anything and anyone.
She took on Big Oil, taxed them and gave Alaska a surplus.
That Bridge to No Where? Dead when she became Govenor.
I think it will be a big mistake for any politician to underestimate this VP candidate.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
32 (
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It looks like McCain's VP pick is................................
Posted:
8/29/2008 9:04:49 AM
The more I read about her the more I am interested.
Palin is strongly pro-life, and belongs to Feminists for Life
No suprise here.
She opposes same-sex marriage, but she has stated that she has gay friends and is receptive to gay and lesbian concerns about discrimination. While the previous administration did not implement same-sex benefits, Palin complied with a state Supreme Court order and signed them into law.
Thats cool, and hardly neocon.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
7 (
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It looks like McCain's VP pick is................................
Posted:
8/29/2008 8:14:49 AM
Hardly a
Yawn. . . .
And yes I saw the speech last night...one of the best I can remember for a Presidential Candidate.
But this pick is anything but a yawn exodusi1. You are a creature of politics...you have to enjoy this!
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
10 (
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Republican VP prediction
Posted:
8/29/2008 8:10:46 AM
Unreal choice.
Little is known of this VP pick.
The VP being 2nd in line makes me wonder what he was thinking on this one.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
6 (
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Republican VP prediction
Posted:
8/29/2008 7:04:31 AM
I am hoping for Liberman.
He is a long shot seeing that McCain is Pro-Life and Liberman isn't.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
9 (
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What's the #1 ISSUE?
Posted:
8/25/2008 12:28:07 PM
Any President is going to have a hard time with the economy.
It is #1
It will take some new thought, because as stated the good ole USA has went from manufacturing industry to a service industry.
That means trade has to be delt with...in a big fashion. And I don't see either candidate dealing with the trade imbalance.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
66 (
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What to do if drinking and smoking rules his life?
Posted:
8/25/2008 8:40:02 AM
Women come and go... but beer and smokes will always be there for you. Face it, their relationship has been there longer than the one he has with you.
I disagree.
Women may come and go...but only "The Woman/The Man" is a rare event.
People do have the capabilities to change.
I am a testament to that.
I started smoking when I was 12. Smoked till I was 24 when my first son was born. Quit for 15 years.
Yes, today I smoke like a chimney because I had the excuse of my divorce. Can I stop?
Of course, but I don't want to today.
What I am saying is that given the dynamics of a goal, anything is possible. Drinkers become non-drinkers, smokers can quit, people can moderate if they have the motivation to change for the betterment.
Relationships are often that motivation.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
63 (
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What to do if drinking and smoking rules his life?
Posted:
8/25/2008 8:15:17 AM
I wish everyone the best in their search with their true love but remember nobody is perfect.
Nobody is perfect indeed.
Each of us has our own personal faults.
My former wife and I crossed a communication bridge about a year ago, and now find we are best friends and confidants. Through communication she expressed that she jumped to fast to find that perfect "Prince Charming", which of course wasn't me.
She said it best when she stated that, "There isn't a wheel out there that doesn't need fixed or hasn't been patched or repaired."
I guess that is just another way to say "The grass isn't always greener."
But you do have an issue with the drinking and smoking. It isnt a lite subject by no means. If you love him then you both need to address the subject and try to change for the betterment of the relationship.
Best of luck doll.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
59 (
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What to do if drinking and smoking rules his life?
Posted:
8/25/2008 7:30:16 AM
It is so funny how people are quick to declare that you should "DUMP THIS GUY"
Every body on this forum needs some sort of personal work.
Are we not single for a reason?
Relationships are suppose to be about helping each other improve in life. Enhancing each other.
Communicate how you feel about the issue to your BF...you love him..tell him you want to improve BOTH your life-styles.
Don't nag about it...talk about it in a sincere way. If it is about love then anything is possible.
Good luck.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
5 (
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Bush widens the Cold War... Provocations against Russia...
Posted:
8/21/2008 8:35:09 AM
It is an ever changing World we live in.
All this demonising and overzealous culture of WAR has got to stop.
It sure would be nice wouldn't it?
Eggsactly why is a Defense system overzealous?
Wouldn't you agree that Russia's words of attack on Polland were...a little overzealous?
pray tell, who exactly is going to shoot all these rogue missiles?
I can't tell the future but I could hazard a guess in todays climate...perhaps Pakistan?
Kind of a messy nation right now.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
3 (
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Bush widens the Cold War... Provocations against Russia...
Posted:
8/21/2008 7:53:22 AM
I disagree with both the OP and ^^Stefano,
This is not just a Bush-Republican deal.
Bush and the Republicans do NOT have control over all 26 NATO members WHO endorsed earlier this year.
The EU and the US/NATO Nations understand that the best offense is defense.
Germany/Berlin Statement;
Berlin insisted on Wednesday that a planned US missile shield in eastern Europe was not directed at Russia, after Washington signed a deal with Warsaw to station 10 interceptor missiles in Poland. "For us the missile defence shield is not pointed at Russia but... can be seen as a European defence system against threats from other regions" such as Iran, government spokesman Thomas Steg said. He added at a regular government press conference that it was a "very sensible gesture" by Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski to say that Warsaw remained open to talks on the shield, including with Moscow.
The Cold War is over Gentlemen.
The World does indeed face new threats.
I think it is vital that NATO/US/EU use diplomacy with Russia to ease tensions over this. If Russia wants to install missile defense in Syria, which there has been talks about, we should understand that they want to balance things out.
It may be that
Drunk, belligerent America .........
that saves this planet from a rogue missile.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
292 (
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Religion takes center stage in Obama-McCain forum
Posted:
8/20/2008 12:38:48 PM
I thought it was a fair forum.
Both candidates did a good job.
There is NO FAR LEFT.
I will have what your smoking.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
24 (
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Alternative Fuels ~
Posted:
8/20/2008 12:07:46 PM
Being the cheap sap I am I use alternative fuels daily.
Wind and Shade cool my house.
That same wind dry's my clothes.
Wood heats my home.
I should sell some Carbon offsets.
Not a fan of Ethanol.
Living in Iowa I have seen the impact. High corn prices and farmers that use every inch of land to increase yeild. This has adversly effected Habitat and water quality.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
2 (
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A Bigfoot corpse discovered ?
Posted:
8/15/2008 12:28:10 PM
Can someone say "Here is your 15 minutes of fame!"
"History repeats?
This is not the first time a Bigfoot body has been claimed to have been found. A man named Tom Biscardi, founder of something called the Great American Bigfoot Research Organization, once claimed he had captured a Bigfoot. On Aug. 19, 2005, Biscardi appeared on the radio show "Coast to Coast with George Noory." Biscardi claimed his group had captured a Bigfoot a week earlier, a male beast that weighed over 400 pounds and stood 8-feet tall. He said he would be presenting photos of it several days later. It turned out to be a hoax.
Interestingly, Biscardi is also involved in the new Bigfoot body discovery.
Speaking on behalf of the Georgia men this week, Biscardi said, "Extensive scientific studies will be done on the body by a team of scientists including a molecular biologist, an anthropologist, a paleontologist and other scientists over the next few months at an undisclosed location" under armed guard."
Deja vu all over again.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
12 (
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Fox news did it again... (Ted Stevens)
Posted:
8/15/2008 8:38:08 AM
If they can't get something this simple right, then one needs to ask;
"What are they getting right?"
Nobody...and I repeat...Nobody should get their news from one source.
My sources come from many, including oversea's.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
58 (
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Any Good Way To Talk About Race?
Posted:
8/15/2008 8:32:09 AM
I often hear the description of someone who has blond hair and blue eyes as someone who has "All American looks" . Why is that? Would someone please explain?
I have heard that applied to the German Race, I mean Hitler was the one who pretty much declared the Aryan ancestry to be the "Master Race". So this probably filtered through from immigration from Europe to the USA?
Heck I don't know???
I think race will always be an issue. I believe that all people have a tinge of racism in them, including myself, because lets be honest, when we see someone, what is the first thing we notice but the color of their skin. Until we can get past that, there will always be issues of race.
I don't think race will always be an issue. Eventually it will be something else that will pit humanity against one another.
You’re right; when we do see someone we take notice of skin color. But in the same vein we use these ID markers for other reasons then racism. We notice...bald people...chubby people...tall people. people with glasses..etc.
I mean when somebody ask me "Who is yelling so loud?" I will answer.."That bald man with glasses wearing socks with his sandles".
This is how we communicate to others about "WHO". I feel this has nothing to do with race and more about communicating.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
52 (
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Any Good Way To Talk About Race?
Posted:
8/15/2008 6:14:25 AM
well this is my thought on it. races dont get on, whites dont like blacks . visa versa(sure some do) but the majoirty dont,mexicans dont like americans and so on.
I don't think that is true at all.
On a personal level my life has been very enriched by having bonds with other races.
Races....I am not even sure I like that word...it seems to put a competitive spin on what really should be a celebration of differences.
you cant put a red ant in a black ants nest(they dont mix) nor do humans,its the minority that say we can, but we all know we cant.
Disagree...we are critical thinkers. We can reason, make tools, solve new problems.
We are not ants or animals. We have free will. Use that free will to put aside the fear.
The original question the OP ask.
Any Good Way To Talk About Race?
I think there is.
Be sincere.
Treat others the way you want to be treated.
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
30 (
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Any Good Way To Talk About Race?
Posted:
8/14/2008 12:16:53 PM
If someone had a magic wand, and was able to temporarily turn you into a Hispanic or African-American, how would you then see the world you now live in ?
That would be something now wouldn't it MG!
I saw an excellent program on PBS about a small town in the state I reside in (Iowa).
POSTVILLE: WHEN CULTURES COLLIDE explores the struggles and rewards, complexity and comedy of instant multiculturalism. Through the prism of Postville, Iowa (population 1500), this documentary examines what happens when a once homogenous town becomes a new model for the American melting pot. This program investigates the roots of cultural misunderstanding, explores the meaning of community, showcases the manifestation of underlying racism and offers a glimpse into what might be the future of small town America.
Talk about an experiment in a test tube!
Suddenly white Midwest rural's thrown in the mix with Mexicans, Hesidic Jews and Guatemalans.
http://www.iptv.org/series.cfm/9695/postville_when_cultures_collide
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
23 (
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Any Good Way To Talk About Race?
Posted:
8/14/2008 11:47:14 AM
If they're not inherently inferior, and if they are "American" after the first generation, then why do you think people of south American descent are going to turn your country into Mexico?
That is a good question.
Perhaps lack of assimilation?
The OP brought up being in LA, seeing mainly Spanish signs etc..
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
188 (
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Female singers in hard rock/metal.
Posted:
8/13/2008 11:23:53 AM
Many people have already mentioned great Female singers in Hard Rock.
I was at a pub last year when a Band called Lez Zeplin played. All female tribute band to Led Zeplin.
They shook it up, changed it up & rocked!
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
92 (
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)
McCain Campaign Ad Paints Obama as the Anti-Christ
Posted:
8/13/2008 9:52:17 AM
14. That guy from the Verizon Wireless commercials
14 on the list???
You have to be kidding me. I have been praying to the antichrist Verizon guy now for two years and he only makes 14!
That's it...I am switchin antichrist right now....loser!
Wolves-Lower
Joined:
9/9/2006
Msg:
9 (
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HILLARY COULD HAVE BEEN NOMINEE, IF NOT FOR EDWARDS
Posted:
8/13/2008 8:34:36 AM
Hillary coulda-wouda-shouda......been the nominee, the media chose otherwise, Edwards running surely didn't help her-
Gee I don't remember the media pulling the lever for Obama when I voted in the Iowa Caucauss? The media didn't convince more than half the backers of Richardson over to the Obama camp in that old school gym I was at.
Obama ran a good campaign and Hillary didn't...end of story.
I agree with one thing you said. Edwards was an idiot for thinking this would'nt leak.
And I also agree that Hillary most likely would have won at least Iowa without Edwards in the mix.
But you can't change what happened. If we could I would be fixing more then this Primary that is for sure.
But we can't have it both ways. People say the sex lives of politicians does'nt not matter.
We know that isn't the case, because it does matter especially the contex.
I never much cared for Edwards. He talked like he was one of us...yeah right.
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