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Thread: Religion and dating
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
29 (
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Religion and dating
Posted: 7/14/2012 7:36:00 AM
Really, it's less about the difference in beliefs than it is the ability to accept the other person for who they are.
If neither of you is the missionary type, then it can work.
If one of you wishes to "convert" the other, than it can become difficult. No more of a barrier than opposing political views, social views, etc.
A potential obstacle? Yes... but it is just that a POTENTIAL obstacle.
It can be worked around with the right two people.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
66 (
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Why do other women flirt with me when I'm on a date?
Posted: 7/13/2012 9:39:33 PM
Supporting evidence’? What’s that, other guys saying the same miraculous thing happens to them? Yeah, that NEVER happens on these forums and of course proves what happened to OP irrefutably
OR we could refer to the some of the studies addressing the topic...
1. Men are more attractive in the presence of Women. Women are less attractive in the presence of Men.
2008, Hill & Buss
http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homepage/group/busslab/pdffiles/mere%20presence.pdf
Men were rated significantly more desirable to women when depicted with women than they were when depicted with men. Women were rated significantly less desirable to men when depicted with men than they were when depicted with women.
2. Women are more interested in pursuing a Man when it is known that they are in a relationship vs. single.
2009, Parker & Burkley
http://www.synergy-pr.com/files/JESP72009(1).pdf
Interestingly, this indicates that single women are more interested in pursuing a man that is less available to them. As predicted, this gender difference in interest was not evident when the participants were in a committed relationship themselves....
According to a recent poll, most women who engage in mate poaching do not think the attached status of the target played a role in their poaching decision (Knadler, 2008), but our study shows this belief to be false. Single women in this study were significantly more interested in the target when he was attached. This may be because an attached man has demonstrated his ability to commit and in some ways his qualities have already been ‘‘pre-screened” by another woman. These findings elucidate the way that gender and relationship status interact to influence mate poaching tendencies.
The statistical methods, as well as the controls in the study are noted in these papers.
Perhaps us Guys weren't imagining it..... :)
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
18 (
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why do i alway feel like the gay best friend
Posted: 7/13/2012 1:22:57 PM
Three words.
BIG. NEON. SIGN.
Women aren't mind readers. If you're interested, you have to express it either verbally or through contact or both.
If you start the relationship without any indication of interest beyond friendship, a woman will interpret that as platonic interest and Voila! Friend Zoned!
How do you avoid that? Easy... BIG. NEON. SIGN.
Physical contact - Touch her arms, reach out to hold her hand, moving slightly into her personal space and see how she reacts, going in for a kiss, etc. Even a subtle change like moving to stroke her arms or hand, or moving in towards her personal space by shifting your seating will communicate clearly that you are NOT just interested in being a platonic friend.
SAY IT - Here's a couple examples.
"I would like to get to know you better."
"I find you very attractive."
"I'm really enjoying our Date." -- Notice the word DATE.
The point is, just don't ASSUME she knows that you're interested as more than a Platonic Friend. You need to make it absolutely, unequivocally, honking clear without ANY ambiguity or she'll mentally slot you as a prospective Friend instead of as a prospective Boyfriend.
So, repeat after me... BIG. NEON. SIGN.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
16 (
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Am I misreading his behavior?
Posted: 7/13/2012 12:45:47 PM
My guess is that men like to have a little collection of phone numbers and keep a woman vaiguely interested in case nothing better comes up... I don't think men actually ever delete a phone number of a single girl/woman unless they get into a serious relationship...
And that would actually be wrong. If a man isn't interested, one of the first things they do is dispose of the phone number. Nobody actually wants to have their phones filled with tons of numbers they won't use.
As for the OP, he set a date so that's a clear indication of interest. How he behaved on that date could have been nervousness, he could be an introvert and slow to open up, or it's possible he was sending what he thought were clear signals that were completely missed.
Missed signals go both ways. I've known Men and Women that couldn't read sincere interest if you hit them over the head and tattooed it on their foreheads.
As for the pacing, that's going to be different for everyone. He could be very busy, he might be trying intentionally not to appear clingy or needy, he might be uninterested.
There's a whole range of possibilities. The only way to actually know is to Communicate.
Sometimes I find it amazing how many assumptions people make about behavior based upon incomplete or a complete lack of information...
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
25 (
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Is too much technology affecting children's creativity/imagination?
Posted: 7/13/2012 10:37:48 AM
Technology is a tool, like anything else. It's how you use it that counts.
As for Games, some sociologists argue that Games exist because in evolutionary terms they are meaningful. When 2 lions play with one another, they are not just playing, but developing skills that are going to be useful when they become adults.
Everything we do influences the development of our brains. They trigger specific neurons and synaptic pathways, strengthening some, letting others weaken due to disuse.
As for computers and video games, like any sort of game can have benefits and they are not always evident.
Games like action games can develop spatial skills, or the ability to read and use maps and markers for navigation.
Strategy games can develop higher level strategic thinking, long term planning skills, and attention to detail.
Games involving music can improve one's ability to see musical patterns, remember musical sequences, and even synthesize musical composition.
Games with heavy textual elements can improve vocabulary, improve reading comprehension, and even help with grammar and writing skills.
Games that are multiplayer and involve co-operative activity have been shown by University studies to improve skills in communication, managing interpersonal relationship, and management skills such as time management, negotiation, and planning.
It is said that Chess was called the game of Kings and that the children of nobles were taught chess at an early age to prepare them for their future responsibilities. The ability to think strategically, understand the management of resources, to think long term, to anticipate multiple outcomes, to adjust to the reactions and tendencies of another human being, and to formulate detailed and complex plans were all desired benefits.
Can technology and games be abused/misused in the development of children? Of course they can. However, they are not inherently bad, and in some way can be very beneficial.
Technology does not hinder or enhance creativity in itself.
Does a word processor hinder a writer? Does using a painting program make someone less visually creative? Does a puzzle become less intellectually challenging because it is presented on a screen?
Technology is a tool. All that counts is that it is used wisely.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
12 (
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Why soo Guarded.
Posted: 7/13/2012 10:19:38 AM
Sounds like your body language is off.
Women are just as concerned with the signals you send off in terms of behavior/stance as they are the content of your words.
You might want to ask some friends to help you with that.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
2 (
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How does a city slicker date in a country world?
Posted: 7/13/2012 10:05:21 AM
That will only be some girls, not all.
There will always be girls in small towns that yearn for the faster paced life, just as there are girls in the city that yearn for a slower paced life.
You just have to figure out which ones are which.
No need to change who you are, just accept that your percentages won't be the same, and if necessary visit the larger towns/cities to increase your dating options.
Also, just because a girl likes a 'country boy' doesn't mean she won't date a 'city slicker'. As long as the rest of you is appealling, you'd be surprised what a Woman will accept.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
129 (
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Where DO you feel it's okay to approach you? (women)
Posted: 7/13/2012 9:03:57 AM
If you're approaching a woman with no other information about her other than you like the way she looks, it's because you want to have sex with her. You said so yourself earlier. If, at that moment, the only interest you COULD have in her is to have sex, then she's just the object/means to that end.
Sorry, I don't buy that logic.
When I buy a Car, I like a car that is aesthetically pleasing, but I buy a car to get from Point A to B in some comfort.
When I buy clothes, I like clothes that I feel looks good on me, but I buy clothes to cover and protect my body with some level of comfort.
When I buy food, I like food that tastes good, but I buy food that is also Nutritious and Fulfilling.
When I approach a Woman, I like a woman that is sexually attractive, but ultimately I want a woman who will be fulfilling partners in a relationship.
Yes, being sexually attractive and Sex counts in a relationship, but to reduce Men to having NO other consideration than Sex is the worst sort of generalization.
There have been multiple times that I have declined Sex with a Woman, women that were interesting, intelligent, sexually attractive and desirous of Sex. However, at those points in my life where I want a relationship, I have no interest in Sex with a Woman where there is no future in terms of a relationship.
If a Man just wants Sex, it is actually easier, simpler and cheaper to just pull a few hundred dollars out of an ATM and go to a prostitute or massage parlor.
Are there Men solely interested in Sex? Of course there are. However, to paint them with a broad brush of intention is the worst sort of stereotyping.
It makes me truly wonder what sort of Men you must be meeting to leave you so jaded and cynical...
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
447 (
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Why do men think it is okay to bother ladies at the gym that aren't scantily clad?
Posted: 7/13/2012 8:01:03 AM
Woman don't want to be approached by a guy at the gym... AND FROM THE LOOKS OF IT SO DO MOST WOMEN ON THIS POST.
The vast majority of women in the Where to approach Women thread would appear to disagree... volume of posts does not make a view more popular or common. A variety of posts from many different people does indicate a view has some popularity or is somewhat common...
Of course, you're entitled to your own view. However, don't assume that represents the majority, and it makes perfect sense for Men to go with what the majority or a significant number of Women are comfortable with..
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
58 (
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Blond adonis- Is he flirting with me?
Posted: 7/13/2012 6:32:43 AM
he has made several comments that I'm a "nice..good..attractive.. " woman and even suggested meeting for drinks (sans co workers)
Psst. THAT IS STEPPING UP TO THE PLATE.
He is subtly telling you that he would like to get to know you over drinks, and he's doing it tastefully because he Works with you.
Really, the only way he could be more obvious is if he pulled out a bat, hit you over the head, and dragged you by the hair into a cave...
IF you really want to get to know him, the next time he suggests drinks, say, "Ok, what do you have in mind?" and take it from there.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
15 (
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introvert/extrovert
Posted: 7/13/2012 6:04:13 AM
If you are an introvert/shy and having a hard time meeting people, having a friend who is an extrovert will make your dating life TREMENDOUSLY easier, not only in terms of meeting people, but in terms of overcoming your shyness and introversion.
When I was young one of my best friends was shy and an introvert. He had a very difficult time meeting women. He would stand around, shuffle his feet, and had a hard time talking to strangers let alone a girl.
I on the otherhand am NOT shy. I'm an extrovert, comfortable in most situations, and will willingly talk to strangers under the flimsiest of pre-texts.
When we went out, I would essentially play the role of Barney Stinson to his Ted Moseby (if you've ever seen How I Met Your Mother).
I would be the ice breaker, would often rope the girls to our table/area, initiate the conversation, then bring him into the conversation if he wasn't getting into the conversation naturally.
A girl might say something, then I'd say,
"Really? I had a similar situation like that with me and my friend T. There was this one time we were out last month... actually, T should probably tell the story. Here, T, tell them about the time we XXX."
Other times if I knew he was interested in a girl, I would do the approach for him.
The main thing is being with an Extrovert not only makes it easier to meet people, but my friend's shyness gradually disappeared. He got used to talking to Girls because I put him in the situation so often AND I would make it easier for him by creating natural segueways.
Over time, by observing and participating, he not only became less shy, but he learned to develop his Extroverted side. Before too long, he had overcome his fear of introducing himself to girls and was comfortable initiating and maintaining the conversation.
I remember sitting in a management meeting where they brought in a personnel management consultant.
He put it something like this..
Each person has a mix of introversion and extroversion. Those sides can be developed over time and with practice. Just as Extroverts can learn to slow down, listen and be more selective in their speaking, Introverts can learn how to become more involved, socially assertive and conversationally spontaneous.
It's a question of desire and practice, not ability.
While at your core you will prefer to be an Introvert or Extrovert, every person can learn not only to act as their opposite, but to understand how to communicate with their opposite. It's all a question of whether they are willing to work at it or not.
Just some thoughts.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
123 (
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Where DO you feel it's okay to approach you? (women)
Posted: 7/13/2012 5:44:27 AM
Never hit a girl while she is with her friends that is just stupid and insensitive.. I agree with reading body language. Guys can be so clueless.
Glad that I completely ignore this advice when I'm out, otherwise I would never have met my GF (3+ years and counting).
She was out with her friends, I approached them (and was actually initially interested in her friend), found out very quickly there was no chemistry with her friend, but realized that I had chemistry with my future GF.
And yes, my GF was sending off all kinds of signals that she wasn't interested in meeting a guy that night, including to me. In fact, she started off acting like the c*ckblocking friend, interrogating and challenging me (she told me later her intention was to screen me for her friend) ... however, as I talked with the 3 of them, those signals gradually disappeared and by the end of the night I had her number (which she gave somewhat reluctantly I might add as she made clear she wasn't looking for a relationship).
The rest was history.
Sometimes you gotta break some eggs to make an omelette...
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
14 (
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Should effort be made to get back with Ex?
Posted: 7/12/2012 2:47:59 PM
Only the two of you know whether you can make it work or not. Assuming the both of you still love each other, and both of you are serious about considering revisiting the relationship, then there are some questions that need to be answered.
Have both of you LEARNED anything from the last time around?
When a woman says she felt taken for granted, it could mean any number of things.
Have you ASKED her why she felt taken for granted? Can you provide what is necessary for her NOT to feel that way or find a mutually agreeable solution?
Was this the Main reason the relationship broke down, or were there other issues and shortcomings on her side as well? Is she aware of those shortcomings and are you able to find a satisfactory path to remedy the various issues?
Only the two of you can answer those questions. That said, if the Love is there, and both of you are willing and able to address the issues that led to your seperation, then it is possible.
We all make errors in our relationships when we are young. Many of us don't recognize them, and repeat those same mistakes over and over, leading to the same outcomes. Some of us take those experiences as opportunities to learn and improve how we approach and deal with our relationships.
I can honestly say that I'm not the same partner now that I was 15 years ago... I would hope that I have become a Better partner.
The question of course is whether the same applies to the two of you.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
86 (
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Where DO you feel it's okay to approach you? (women)
Posted: 7/12/2012 9:25:49 AM
Take clubs for an example.... I don't accept drinks from men and get told off because these men were "nice enough" to spend their money buying me drinks and sometimes will insist very aggressively that it would be "not nice" of me to say no. Once one of them even said "you're taking it anyway" and poured it over me. The reason I don't accept drinks is because I learned quickly that when I did so, men assumed that doing that meant that I was "interested" and that we would spend the rest of the evening together. When I didn't go home with them, I got called a c*ck tease and a wh*re. I can't dance with men any more, because every time it just ends up with them grinding on me with their hardons. Then, if I accepted a dance with another man later they would come up and yell at me for "leading them on". Sometimes, these men got into fistfights and then I'd have to fend off their female friends who came up to tell me off for "causing" all this. I don't enjoy that kind of attention and this kind of thing happened every time I went, so I just don't go.
Honestly, it just sounds like you're hanging out in the wrong places and around the wrong people.
Buying a drink for someone isn't always an attempt to pick you up.
I've bought drinks for strangers when I saw it was their birthday.
I've bought drinks for strangers who looked like they were having a rough day.
I've bought drinks for strangers because they were interesting conversation.
I've bought drinks for strangers just because I felt like it.
And yes, I've bought drinks for Women who I thought I might like to know.
And I NEVER buy a drink for someone who asks.
In the bars, clubs and patio's I spend my time in, I don't think I have EVER seen a man pour his drink on a woman. And if a Man were to do so in those bars, the owner, bouncers or head bartender would have thrown them out on their butt and banned them from coming back.
It's unfortunate that your experiences have led you to believe that every Man falls into your previous experiences. I suspect that it is costing you the opportunity to meet a number of very interesting and nice people.
And yes, there are jerks out there, or people who don't know how to take a hint. It makes me wonder if those bad experiences disproportionately color your views...
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
22 (
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Beverage of choice on a date vs socially with friends
Posted: 7/12/2012 9:10:57 AM
It depends on where we are and the mood.
If it's over dinner, I like to share a bottle of wine. However, if they prefer a specific drink, I'll usually order something like a Gin and Tonic.
I rarely do shots on a date, unless we end up dancing/partying after a date. If it ends up going down that road, then the drink selection can go pretty much anywhere.
As for hanging out with friends I tend to stick to mixed drinks like Gin and Tonic or Jack and Coke. I don't drink single glasses of wine. I tend to view Wine as more of a social beverage. And beer is for sporting events. :)
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
11 (
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Why do guys get distant after sex?
Posted: 7/10/2012 10:20:08 PM
I guess I broke it off b/c I have trust issues. B/c I wasn't sure what was going on. B/c I really was an emotional wreck on the inside trying to figure out if his lack of texting me on Monday meant he was no longer interested. I guess I'd rather break it off than be rejected.
Men often pull back briefly while they try to figure out how they feel. It's not uncommon to be worried that you're moving too fast, especially when you become very intimate.
The important part was that he wanted to continue the relationship... and relationship is the right word. Guys don't mow the lawn for just anyone.
Unfortunately, your own issues got in the way.
He was looking to reconnect, and you decided to cut him off at the pass.... unfortunate for both of you.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
13 (
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getting out the friend zone
Posted: 7/10/2012 6:11:51 PM
You did the right thing.
Next time do it 5 months sooner.
Live and learn.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
39 (
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Where DO you feel it's okay to approach you? (women)
Posted: 7/10/2012 3:10:53 PM
....and here I thought most of the answers would be no-'where.'......lol
That's kind of where I was going with this whole thread.
The back and forth posting of some threads has a tendency to drown out opinions to where people start believing that those in a vocal minority are more populous than they actually are.
So far, I haven't seen large numbers of women crawling out of the woodwork saying that they don't want to be approached at all, just watch the timing, be polite, and back off when they're not in the mood.
Of course, the thread is still Young... so maybe there's a ton of folks who are still to weigh in with their points of view...
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
4 (
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Project Apollo today
Posted: 7/10/2012 9:32:43 AM
They would have brought a far more extensive testing suite.
It would have been a longer mission (ability to store and send more supplies). Live social media interaction, 24/7 live coverage, Nascar style sponsorships, and the mission would have extended over a far larger area geographically.
They also probably would have brought some sort of semi-permanent habitat.
And it would have been multi-cultural and co-ed...
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
4 (
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Where DO you feel it's okay to approach you? (women)
Posted: 7/10/2012 8:55:28 AM
If you want to ask Men, start a different thread. And asking a gender specific question is not Sexist, it's just asking for one side's point of view.
The purpose of this thread is to find out if there's any sort of consensus, or majority point of view on the topic vs the Gym type threads where it tends to devolve into a tit for tat posting exchange where single posters drown out the majority just due to volume.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
1 (
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Where DO you feel it's okay to approach you? (women)
Posted: 7/10/2012 8:43:24 AM
Okay, the Gym thread has reached an unbelievable number of posts, and it seems like every time the topic of whether it's okay to approach a woman in a particular place there seems to be a furor of opinion.
So, I want to just get a couple questions out there and see where various Women's heads are at...
1) Where is it OK for a man to approach you? (Specific locations please, such as Gym, grocery store, on the street, work, etc).
2) Where is it NOT OK for a man to approach you? (Specific locations again).
3) In an ideal world, where would you PREFER a man to approach you (Ideal locations and/or circumstances).
ASSUME that it is done tastefully and respectfully, IE, they don't walk up and talk about your butt, boobs, flipping you over like a pancake, etc. Obviously nobody likes to be approached in a rude and tasteless way.
This should be interesting...
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
44 (
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Trusting intuition
Posted: 7/10/2012 8:34:55 AM
Re read it with MY intentions..
NO RICH normal men....... aka ................GOLD on pof
That's completely untrue. They are out there, most of them are just very quiet about it. In fact, many who are wealthy will lie about their true financial status initially specifically to avoid being targetted by "gold diggers". They also don't really complain about it too much because it's just sort of an accepted and unavoidable dating risk.
People with money are the same as anyone else. Not everyone wants to spend $10k+ on a professional matchmaker. Not everyone wants to spend money on a paid site without test driving an unpaid site. Not everyone is great at introducing themselves to random people. Not everyone enjoys the bar, party and charity circuits. Not everyone has extensive circles to date from outside of their colleagues. And not everyone who has money wants to date exclusively in the social enclaves that wealthier areas tend to foster.
Additionally, some people who are wealthy like the anonymity of meeting someone on the internet versus dating in a community where they have high visibility and are automatically assessed in context to their financial accomplishments.
Being on POF does NOT exclude them from being on POF as well as other paid sites simultaneously.
Are there going to be billionaires on POF? Highly doubtful. There just aren't that many single billionaires on the planet, and at that level of wealth you already have transitioned to extensive socializing necessitated by business interests and are dealing with some rather unique complications.
However, I have no doubt that there are millionaires on POF. 300k+ people, it's mathematically inevitable, and you can bet that there's a fair share that are perfectly normal.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
114 (
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Grocery Store Dating.
Posted: 7/9/2012 10:42:03 PM
Oh my! Come back down to earth. Give head a shake.
Sorry, that that is simply not part of reality.
Anyone who told me that I or any other female in a grocery store was radiating the about requires an immediate 911 call.
It is a grocery store, where people go to buy food, not a bad soap opera.
I'm sorry that you've never had the pleasure of such an experience.
I've met literally thousands of people through work and leisure, travelled to over 20 countries, and lived in 4 countries.
They are exceedingly rare, but yes, I've met people like that. Probably less than a dozen in total, but they do exist. .
Some people are magnetic, or make you feel instant trust, or seem to radiate compassion without uttering a single word.
There are extraordinary individuals on this earth, and if you're fortunate you'll meet them
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
108 (
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Grocery Store Dating.
Posted: 7/9/2012 9:35:30 PM
Well….I have a difficult time imagining a total stranger would think I was "so special" just from seeing me push a cart around at the grocery store. I want a man who sees more in me than what he thinks I can provide for him in bed
Not as far fetched as you think.
Have you ever seen someone walk into a room that commands everyone's attention? Or who seems to radiate confidence? Or glows with a je ne sais quoi? Or moves with catlike grace? Or who when you see their smile it's as if you suddenly have seen an almost blinding radiance? Or whose eyes seem like deep pools of kindness?
Some people are different than others. You can almost feel them radiating to everyone around them, even when they're sitting still, even when they're not talking, and yes, even when they're pushing a shopping cart.
Is it so inconcievable to see someone and feel an immediate attraction that goes beyond mere physical beauty?
Such experiences as those should not be dismissed so quickly.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
84 (
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Grocery Store Dating.
Posted: 7/9/2012 1:40:06 PM
Actually, I said I don’t go to the gym…I work out at home.
I don’t know why my personal preference would be considered some quoted ideal world.
Most men I’ve dated have been introduced to me by friends or other people I knew, and usually started out as friends. I’m not receptive to strange men who want to ‘date’ me. That has never worked out well for me. I’ve been approached by men I didn’t know for years and I don’t like it. I wouldn’t be interested in a man I’ve just laid eyes on for the first time.
I’m not perpetually on the make and I don’t want to be approached by someone who is.
Ok... so if I read that right you don't want to be approached by anyone, anywhere except through friends/acquaintances.
Different strokes for different folks I guess...
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
14 (
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Girl code
Posted: 7/9/2012 10:56:03 AM
If you're close to both of them, an anonymous link via e-mail would work.
If you're close to only one of them, you may or may not point it out to them directly.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
74 (
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Grocery Store Dating.
Posted: 7/9/2012 10:42:51 AM
The last thing I care about is picking up guys when I’m at the grocery store. I want to get what I need and get the heck out of there. I’ll chitchat with the cashiers for the minutes it takes to cash me out and then I’m gone. I don’t give guys the opportunity to approach me.
Just out of curiousity, you have stated that you don't like guys approaching you in the Gym or the Grocery store.
In your definition of an ideal world, where IS it okay for a guy to approach you?
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
6 (
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Trying to not date someone based on looks...
Posted: 7/8/2012 8:40:22 PM
Yes and No.
While initial impressions do count for alot, people do become more and less sexy as you get to know them.
For example, a person passing gas at the wrong time, or a person dancing well can change an impression of how attractive someone is. Similar to their choice of clothing, selection of colors, demonstrated aptitudes and skills such as cooking, artistic skills, athletic ability, success in career, good with children can all influence impressions and levels of attraction.
If you have someone that is "close" to passable, they can move up... of course, it's nowhere near guaranteed. They can move down as well.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
5 (
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Is This True?
Posted: 7/8/2012 3:13:01 PM
Does that include beer goggles?
Sexy dancing?
Changing into something more comfortable?
Being charming?
Being told that they're an acrobat/gymnast?
It's not that simple. In terms of sex, a general impression... sure. However, that's something that can change with time..
As for the relationship thing, no. That takes time.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
17 (
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When your best friend is attracted to your mate
Posted: 7/8/2012 10:08:21 AM
You need better friends.
Good friends go by the Bro Code.
They only approach an ex after clearing it with you, and usually only after a healthy amount of time. Otherwise, it's 100% off limits.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
6 (
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Chance Encounters
Posted: 7/8/2012 3:55:10 AM
I did when I was very young. Then in my late teens I asked myself the simple question, "What do I have to lose?"
After that, I never let those opportunities pass again. I ended up meeting alot of people, had some great conversations, got more than a few dates and phone numbers, and a couple relationships.
Never forget the drowning man joke...
A man is in his house and it begins to flood all around him. With the water rising, he climbs onto the roof and prays, "Dear Lord, please save me!"
A person swims past his house with a life preserver and offers to help, but the man says, "Thank you, but the Lord will save me."
A person rows past his house in a boat and offers to help, but the man says, "Thank you, but the Lord will save me."
A helicopter flies overhead and offers to help, but the man says, "Thank you, but the Lord will save me."
Soon enough, the man drowns. The world goes dark and he finds himself standing before God. He looks to the Lord and says, "Lord, I have always been faithful. Why didn't you save me?"
The Lord looks at the man and says, "What are you talking about? I sent you a life preserver, a boat and a helicopter! Dumba**!"
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
43 (
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Why do other women flirt with me when I'm on a date?
Posted: 7/8/2012 3:34:54 AM
It's not just when you are on a date, it happens when you're out with friends too.
Just being out with an attractive woman, even if it's platonic makes you more attractive in other women's eyes. Part of it is the "he's not a psycho" vibe -- IE, you've been pre-screened. Part of it is that you must be interesting for an attractive woman to spend time with you.
And if that friend has a matchmaker bent, before you know it she's off chatting you up and you're become popular very quickly.
Attractive women = Best. Wingmen. Ever.
As for dating a very attractive woman, if women notice that you have been dating very attractive women, once you are single they are nearly always more receptive. The idea that is that if you can keep such women interested, there is likely something beneath the surface worth exploring.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
17 (
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Trusting intuition
Posted: 7/8/2012 3:27:34 AM
Not sure I'd call that intuition versus spotting some really big red flags.... I tend to think of intuition as picking up on something that isn't really explicit or obvious, like off body language or unusual gaps in timing, etc.
Still, glad to hear you avoided a potential pitfall.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
49 (
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Grocery Store Dating.
Posted: 7/8/2012 3:09:46 AM
It's a myth that you can "meet" women at grocery stores. It gets repeated over and over, but that doesn't make it true. Maybe it's good practice to socialize and talk with people, but that's about it.
Not a myth. Just has it's own set of rules like any place you go.
The direct approach is often the worst choice in a grocery store. Asking advice is often a good entre. Not being over aggressive or appearing threatening is important, and as mentioned above being able to read body language well so that you can gracefully exit if they're not interested.
Also, if it's a place you go regularly, sometimes you'll need to run into them multiple times over several visits (plant the seeds so to speak).
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
94 (
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Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 7/6/2012 2:27:53 PM
The middle ground position is just weak. You can't prove what doesn't exist doesn't exist so maybe it exists because in a world of infinite possibilites you never know what is beyond your capacity to know. Uggg... All I have is... I agree. There is no evidence. I do not know why I believe but I do. I continue to ask myself why.
Or, maybe some of us are NOT so arrogant to believe that everything is knowable within our lifetimes.
It is possible to entertain an idea and have doubt as to it's veracity.
Saying you are "Not Sure" is not a sign of weakness, it is a sign of strength.
If you are sure there is a Deity, great for you. If you are sure that there is NOT a Deity, great for you.
And belief or non-belief in a Deity is completely unrelated to belief in a religion. I could concieve an entirely different type of Deity unrelated to any established religion.
Do you believe in String Theory or Quantum Loop Gravity? Neither? Nor? Unconvinced of both but either are still plausible?
For some reason, some believe that it is perfectly reasonable to entertain the possibility of a Scientific Hypothesis being true, but not being sure that it is true, but to do this in regards to the existance of a Deity? Oh no's! You're sitting on a fence!
Insufficient information is a perfectly legitimate reason for NOT forming a conclusion. In fact you could argue that it is logically lax to NOT entertain the possibility of uncertainty.
Can that change over time? Of course.
In 20 years I could end up believing in a Deity, or an Atheist, or remain an Agnostic. The fact is, I just don't know where my beliefs will land in 20 years.
I don't have to believe in blind faith. On the other hand, the Universe is far greater and more complex than we know. That is not weakness, that is Humility.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
26 (
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Do u dress up or dress down on a first meetup?
Posted: 7/5/2012 6:23:21 PM
I always try to dress appropriately.
However, if in doubt, it's always better to overdress than underdress.
It's easy to forgive someone who looks too good... it's hard to recover when you look awful.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
25 (
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Show up or not ?
Posted: 7/4/2012 9:31:04 PM
If it's not too far, I would go. I wouldn't travel an hour or two or anything, but if it's a reasonable distance, then why not?
You set a time and a date, and made the commitment.
There are reasons Women delete a profile. She might have been getting harassing e-mails/messages from another date, or might have a preference of one profile per date. Who knows?
What's the worst thing that can happen? It's not really a big inconvenience, and worst comes to worst, you get out for the night, then get coffee/drinks/meal if she's a no show.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
20 (
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Just what exactly is a player?
Posted: 7/4/2012 10:45:33 AM
A "player" is a man who intentionally misleads a woman for the intention of engaging in a sexual relationship.
This is not to be confused with Men who are misinterpreted by Women, or Men who end a post-sexual relationship due to dealbreakers, or Men who did not have reciprocal feelings with a Woman that chose to sleep with them anyway.
There are far fewer "players" than women like to admit.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
99 (
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Would you date someone who admitted to previous affairs
Posted: 7/4/2012 12:04:11 AM
His excuse for not ending his marriage was his wife's illness and wanting to do the "right thing", but he could have divorced her and supported her through lifelong alimony or establishing a trust for her care.
If they had divorced she would have lost medical insurance coverage, which would have been beyond his means to support her. This would have meant either being unable to pay for medication, treatment or living costs to one degree or another.
Where is the honorable in that?
His options were stay married, or her not getting proper treatment. The costs of her food, board, and ongoing medication were substantially beyond his means without his benefit plan, especially after putting his kids through school.
It may not be a perfect solution, but sometimes you don't get to live in a perfect world.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
8 (
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what is next?
Posted: 7/3/2012 12:14:22 PM
Since this mess was made into what it is by a small group of people PRETENDING that some real estate had way more real value than it did, it seems to me that the debt itself is also an illusion. A bunch of ultra-rich private individuals, and corporate "people" (per the Supreme Courts idiocy) played a game with a lot of fake money that never existed, and then when it was pointed out that it was play money, they demanded that it be replaced by the real thing. I think that the bulk of the "debt" should be erased, and the rich thieves and fools who played the game should forfeit both their entire holdings, and their right to "play" from now on.
The current situation in terms of debt is nothing new. It's one of the messy parts of a free market system.
If you're referring specifically to the melt down, in economic terms it's an economic correction. Ok, that's one of those words that people throw out there alot in economics, an easier way to think of an economic correction is when the percieved and actual value of something drastically diverges and then "corrects" back to the mean.
Think of it this way.
You buy a can of coke. It costs $1.
What is the real "value" of that can of coke? To you it's $1. If you have that can of coke in the desert, someone will pay alot more than $1. If you're sitting in your living room and your friend also has a can of coke that he's drinking and he's not thirsty, he may only pay $0.50.
In other words, valuation is relative. The worth of something changes depending on who's looking at it and relative to their particular need/desire.
Ok, so let's take this a bit further...
You're sitting on the porch and it's a warm day, but the weather report comes out and says it's going to be very hot. At this moment, the value of the coke is $1, but you Believe the future value will be higher, as when it's hot you want a cold drink more.
This is Percieved value.
Now, what has actually changed about that can of coke? In actuality, nothing. It hasn't gotten bigger, the materials and labor required to manufacture it hasn't changed, but the actual Input (stuff to make it) and the Percieved value have dramatically shifted away from eachother.
Just like that guy in a car at the last gas station for 300 miles will pay $2.50 for that Coke, the guy in town will only pay $1.00.
So what does a can of Coke have to do with the Financial Crisis? It's this simple. Wall Street sold a bunch of debt based upon the Percieved value of a bunch of houses. The percieved value was far out of whack with the Input/actual value. However, people tend to look only at what something is worth today, not what it "should" be worth, so they let Wall Street sell that Debt believing that the percieved value would hold.
When the economy started to slow, it suddenly became apparent that they wouldn't need so many houses, so the percieved value of those homes collapsed (projected need), which meant the assets backing that debt was worthless.
The percieved value was REAL at the time it was evaluated. Just because the percieved value of something is not in line with the input/actual value of something doesn't mean that someone won't pay for it. Just like looking at your house, You might say, "Wow, the neighbors house went for XXX, I wouldn't pay more than 1/2 of XXX!" In that case, your judgement is useful, but irrelevant in the sense that your neighbor already has a suitcase full of money.
Similary, the Debt was REAL when it was created. Those who bought that debt for a significant part of that time believed that the Percieved value of the underlying assest would hold.
So, the Debt was real, the Real estate Value was real, however perception shifted and suddenly it all came tumbling down.
Now, this is apart from the actual marketing of those instruments and the breakdown of the major lenders. The fundamental problem in that case wasn't the concept (debt backing assets), it was the breakdown in the process of HOW that debt was controlled and sold.
In a nutshell, the problem is that the Fox was guarding the Hen House. Basically, the guys who were selling the stuff, were paid based on Volume. Those same people were Also expected to safeguard the Quality Control. You had an inherent conflict of interest in the way it was done, and it resulted as expected... people getting greedy.
Here's an analogy. You're a car saleman. I pay you for every car you sell. The more you sell, the more you make. You're also in charge of inspecting every car that is sold. You're responsible for making sure you sell no lemons. How long before SOMEONE is tempted to cheat the system and let dodgy cars slip through? Not long. And that's what happened on Wall Street.
Finally, as for bail outs and such, it was a pretty ridiculous situation. The laws as they currently exist don't have laws that allow easy prosecution of many of those people. The regulations for the most part are actually civil based, which means you can *try* to go after them for money, but if they're broke already, you're pretty much out of luck. Laws by design can't be created retroactively. You can't make a law for a crime that's already been committed, only crimes that are committed in the future. So going after the bad people isn't only impractical, it's downright illegal.
As for whether the Gov't should have stepped in or not, it's not so simple. The international economy is incredibly intertwined, and the financial system (banks and insurance companies) are at the heart of it. If you allow a collapse in a disorderly fashion, the results would be catastrophic. On the other hand, if you don't allow it to collapse as well, it could still be catastrophic.
There was no manual for dealing with the situation, and politically it's a no win situation. If they do the bailout, some people will scream for their heads. And if the politicians did nothing, people would have screamed for their heads anyway.
Given the alternative of not acting and facing a guaranteed immediate disaster, they took the chance of acting, without any real way of knowing whether it would advert the disaster at all.
I'm sure there's some that will say "It would have been better to do XXX", however the reality is that it's just theory, and not even theory that everyone agrees on. If the solution was SO obvious to everyone, then they would have done it and nobody would be on different sides.
Economics is a truly imprecise science.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
18 (
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Truth
Posted: 7/3/2012 11:24:55 AM
Truth by the most rigourous definition is that which has been stated as factual.
Factual is that which we have accepted to be true.
Circular argument, ultimately leading nowhere.
Just because we accept something to be factual does not mean it is factual, just as us accepting something to be true does not make it true.
All is based upon some level of assumption. For example, I assume that what I percieve as factual is correct. That may or may not be true, or factual. The concept of Ultimate truth is merely a construct, since we have no way of incontrovertibaly verifying that something is objectively true.
See the problem?
So, as a purely philosophical/semantic argument, all this shows us is that we do not have the tools to divine anything to the point of absolute certainty.
All we can really say is, "It appears to ME that XXX is true". Of course, saying "appears" all the time would be annoying as heck, not to mention pretentious, so we just drop that part and state it as True, since if you're stating something, it's pretty self evident that that's how it appears to You.
Having spent more than my fair time in rhetoric and philosophy courses, the only Truth I managed to reach is nobody actually knows, nobody can really define it, and that's that.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
90 (
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Would you date someone who admitted to previous affairs
Posted: 7/3/2012 11:12:21 AM
They justify their unchecked libidos by saying "my partner did not understand me: or "I only stayed for the sake of the kids" and they make it sound less harmful by calling it a fling or affair with a mistress or lover. But they are sociopathic in their denial....at the very least they selfish liars who have no regard for their partner's feelings and at the worst, they are the person who exposed their partner to AIDs, HIV, STD's and/or the embarrassment of procreating illegitimate children.
It's not always that simple.
I have a friend whose parents are in an unusual situation.
His Father and Mother were married and shared 3 children. The Mother suffered from Paranoid Schizophrenia, a debilitating mental condition that made her impossible to live with. She spent years in and out of mental institutions. They had stopped being intimate in their late 30's. By their 40's they had constant fights, the police had to be called multiple times as she threatened violence against others. After several years of this, he moved out and got his own place.
She suffered specific delusions of grandeur. She believed that the Government was part of a massive conspiracy to steal a large amount of money (imaginary) that she believed her family was entitled to. She would read the newspapers and believe that general news articles were actually coded messages to her. She would watch television program and believe the actors and newscasters were speaking specifically to her.
25 years later they are still married. She lives in a private assisted facility. He lives his life seperately and they have not been intimate for over 30 years.
I asked my friend why his Father and Mother never divorced. He answered with this...
"My father wasn't raised that way. He was taught that once you share children with a woman, they are always your responsibility, for better or for worse. If he had divorced her, it would not only have been a legal mess as it would have been very hard to declare her mentally unfit (the standards for legal proceedings are very different than general diagnosis), but she would have lost all her medical coverage for treatment (he had an excellent benefits package).
After giving him 3 children, he felt he owed her this. When someone is family, they are family and you do what you need to do to take care of them."
He just turned 80. He still financially supports her to this day. He paid for her apartment when she lived on her own, provided her with an allowance, paid for every medical procedure and all medical treatment. The kids moved her to an assisted care facility and he pays the difference in coverage to ensure she has her own room and reasonable amenities.
Even though they have not talked in close to 2 decades, in his mind she is still his responsibility.
A little over 15 years ago he met a Woman. They fell in love and they have been together ever since. He's never been unfaithful, he treats her well, and she knows the entire story... that he's still married, that he will never divorce her, and that until the day she dies he will make sure his Wife is taken care of. And he does all this not because he does not love his new girlfriend, but because his sense of duty and responsibility will not allow him to do otherwise.
Should a Man such as He be judged harshly? Is he undeserving of love? Is he a sociopathic, selfish liar?
Few things in life are black and white.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
32 (
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Should dating advice on the forums be taken with a grain of salt?
Posted: 7/3/2012 10:46:09 AM
As for the saying, I'd take that with a grain of salt, too. I've known several people who could both "do" and "teach" quite well
I've seen it happen a number of times.
There are business mentor programs in many places. The Mentors/teachers are often very experienced, retired/semi-retired executives and entrepeneurs with deep experience. They did it, now they teach as a way to give back.
I was quite successful in one of my earlier careers. I took a break to teach for 3 years. Partially as something to do, partially as an opportunity to give back and grow the profession.
As for why people in relationships continue to post here, I suspect the reasons run the gamut. As for me, my original intention when I return to POF (I tend to take long breaks in between periods of activity) is just to read the forums, partially for entertainment value, partially to gain insight to how people think and approach relationships. Then I end up reading something that someone has written that touches me in some way, and I feel the need to try to help or contribute in a constructive way.
If something I have learned in life can help another human being, they're welcome to it. It's my way of paying back the countless people that have done the same for me throughout my personal and professional life.
Experience and knowledge is not a finite resource. It shouldn't be hoarded like gold, it should be spread as widely as possible. Otherwise, how would any of us learn?
I wouldn't be surprised if there are others here that feel the same.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
20 (
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Plenty of Fish Public vs. Private side
Posted: 7/3/2012 10:25:55 AM
Quality? On a free dating site? You'd find better quality in real life. Anyone who needs to use online dating to find their 'perfect' person is obviously not cutting it in real life.
Nice generalization, but not true. While they are not the majority, I have encountered more than a few impressive women (8-9+ physically, as well as accomplished, intelligent, humorous, etc) both through my own dating experiences, but spotting profiles of Women who I KNEW for a fact from knowing them in RL that they were FAR from hard up for dates.
I also have known more than a handful of Men who were in similar positions. Accomplished, well adjusted, great personalities, handsome, etc. They were FAR from hard up for dates or interested Women.
The fact is, exceptional people of either sex are not common, online or in real life. That's why they're considered Exceptional people.
The only thing those people in common was that they were looking for an additional avenue to date. Some were on POF because they were sick of the bar scene, some because their RL schedules didn't allow them to meet people regularly, some because they wanted to add another option to meet people, and some because they had never tried Online dating and if they were going to feel something out, they figured why pay for it?
If anything, your posts indicates that you hold some bitterness towards your online dating experiences.
Personally, I hold a much LONGER view.
I've dabbled on and off with online dating since the late 80's (chat rooms and bulletin boards). I've seen it morph multiple times over the years, and it move from a fairly niche area (computer savvy, affluent and educated) to a mass market medium.
The only things that have changed are that 1) people are more savvy, 2) people are more cautious, and 3) you have a MUCH more general demographic.
Are there more scam artists and people who aren't interested in relationships online? Of course there are.. but there are also ALOT more people online in general. The main difference is that now you need better search, screening and communication skills to Find and initiate meaningful contact with interesting people among the masses of humanity.
And while I don't discount your own experiences with "fitness forums" and such, I think you also need to realize that you are at best dealing with a small subset of individuals, whose particular characteristics will appeal to a specific subset of people. To draw large inferences about 300,000 people from that would be no different than going to a Millionaire site and claiming every woman is a gold digger, or an infidelity site and claiming that all people want to do is cheat.
Anecdotal evidence does NOT accurately reflect a total population, regardless of how many of those forums you join, or how many posts you read.
There are some Exceptional dating prospects out there, some not so great prospects, but the bulk of people are going to be normal, average human beings. IE, not that much different than anywhere else.
The big differences between online and offline dating is that Online operates by different rules, with different risks, and different obstacles.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
265 (
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attractiveness difference
Posted: 7/3/2012 9:56:30 AM
Confidence comes with success.
‘Success’ by whose definition? When is money or career enough to feel confident in oneself? A confident person defines success for him/herself.
Success in completing any kind of task leads to confidence in performing that task again.
If you successfully approach a Woman and it leads to a date, you gain some confidence that you can duplicate the result.
If you have successful dates with favorable outcomes (good experiences, friendships, relationships, etc), you become more confident that you can successfully date in the future.
If you have a successful relationship, it helps you gain confidence that you can have another one.
If you are successful at any endeavor, whether it's personal fulfillment, athletics, academics or career goals, it can also breed confidence in yourself. Success breeds self-confidence in general. When you have a track record of successes, regardless of the endeavor, it breeds confidence that you can achieve the goals you set and that you can overcome adversity.
So really, the statement that Confidence comes with Success isn't completely inaccurate. Nor is it universally accurate. That does not detract from its value.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
9 (
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Can emotionally intense/needy men change?
Posted: 7/3/2012 9:46:07 AM
It's hard to say.
It's not uncommon for a guy that's somewhat inexperienced at dating (and some who are) to "try too hard". Instead of relaxing and being themselves, they start telling the girl what they *think* the woman wants to hear, or to avoid disagreeing with her or to voice their thoughts and opinions out of the fear of screwing it up.
This can change as a Man matures and becomes more self-confident in what they bring to the table.
So yes, it can change. It doesn't always change, but it can.
One way to look at it is this... were you the same person 5, 10 or 15 years ago as you are today? Were you more shy, more unsure, and less assertive? Do you know people who were like that who changed? If you do, is it so implausible that he was the same?
It's up to you whether you want to give him another shot.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
18 (
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25 & never kissed a girl let alone been in a relationship, what to do?
Posted: 7/3/2012 9:39:43 AM
I don't like the idea myself, but it's next on my list of things to try, since nothing else seems to be working. I hear it's kind of a gold mine.
Ballroom dance group classes are phenomenal places to meet Women in a low pressure, non-romantic environment. It's good whether you're shy or not as you're forced into meeting and interacting with multiple women over a prolonged period of time (multiple weeks).
Toss in that learning how to dance is a major bonus. You would be surprised at Women's views of you change when they realize that you know how to spin or dip them gracefully...
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
9 (
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Please Review My Profile
Posted: 7/3/2012 9:19:24 AM
The first message you're sending is too much like a profile addendum and generic compliment.
If you want a woman to be interested in you, you need to show that you're interested in Her. Interested in knowing more about her, her views, her hobbies, etc.
A Woman's profile is a doorway, it's up to you to step through and find out what's on the other side. And the only way that will happen is if you Ask about her.
Find one or two things you found interesting about her profile, then ask some questions. Relate those interesting items to things about yourself that either add to a discussion or reveal something interesting about yourself.
"I read that you like to Ski. I like to ski as well... I'm not a black diamond skier, and sometimes I feel like I should be back on the bunny hills when I do a face plant, but I try. I like to go places like XXX. How about you? What do you like about going Skiing? Should I expect to see you doing Aerials?"
So, I am referencing something she loves (shows I actually read the profile), I'm connecting it to my own experiences (revealing something about myself), and asking her questions about her connection with that interest (showing an interest in knowing more about her the Person), and giving her the opportunity to expand upon those interests.
In other words, the opening message is like a conversation, but because you don't have the immediacy of a face to face conversation, you sort of have to compress it more than you would in verbal conversation. Try to ask open-ended questions vs yes/no, and also provide 2-3 related questions so she has some choice over what she wants to reveal, and what she's most interested in revealing.
Just some thoughts. Good luck!
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
17 (
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friend zoned..what do i do now?
Posted: 7/3/2012 6:56:11 AM
You're deep in the friend zone guy. Extricating yourself is difficult and nothing near a sure bet.
It is not uncommon for a Woman to rule you out, even IF she's physically attracted to you once you enter the Friend zone. Women value their friendships very highly, and once you are in that place they are often unwilling to risk jeopardizing that friendship for an attempt at a relationship out of the fear that it ends badly.
Your choices are very limited.
You have already expressed your interest, that's the main thing.
You really only have 2 choices...
1) Accept that she has no interest in you in that way and continue being her friend. You lost your opportunity, you took too long to let her know how you feel, and now you have no options. Move on, and look for someone else.
2) Tell her that it's not enough and risk losing the friendship. This may involve you needing to pull away, or even possibly end the friendship.
Number 2 is a risky path, and should ONLY be attempted if you are confident that she feels some attraction towards you, or you can't bear the thought of her looking at you like a brother. If you don't feel the chemistry going both ways, or you're not willing to risk it all, then you're pretty much stuck. You can't magically make her feel attracted to you, and if you don't want it badly enough just stick with the friendship.
If she IS attracted to you (and you know this, either by her telling you or mutual friends informing you of this fact), AND you are attracted to her, AND/OR you are willing to gamble it all, then maybe you might be able to move the relationship to a different footing.
There's a few ways to do this....
1) Wait for the right opportunity and make it physical. I've seen this happen to friends. They're out together, they've had a bit to drink, or one of them is emotionally in a messed up place, and somehow they end up kissing. A shared kiss is a powerful thing... it can completely shift the way one person views one another. It ALSO has the risk of making the friendship VERY awkward. I've seen it go down that way too. It can sometimes take months to get the relationship back to something near normal if it fizzles.
2) Put the friendship on the line. This is a straightforward and high risk approach. Do NOT do this unless you are absolutely SURE that it's something you want to do. If it is, you might say something like this...
"Listen, you know I love you, we've been friends forever and I would never want to hurt you. However, I have feelings for you that go beyond friendship. And it's killing me. Every time I see you with someone else, I feel a knife in my heart. Every time I'm near you and I look into your eyes and I know that all you see is a friend, a part of me dies.
I can't go on like this. I can't do this without Knowing if there is a chance for us to be something more. I can live with knowing that it won't work, or that we don't fit. I can live with finding out that we drive eachother crazy. However, if there is a chance of you being the right one, the Woman that I'll want to see every day for the rest of my life, I'll never be able to live with myself if I didn't do everything I could to find out.
I know it's scary. I know that you're afraid we'll ruin our friendship. I'm afraid of that too, but I'm willing to risk it. I'm willing to take that chance. And the reason I'm willing to do that is because I think you're worth it.
I want you to look into your heart. I want you to look me into the eyes and tell me how you feel about me. I don't want a lie. If you have NO feelings for me, I can take it. Tell me that you don't want me in that way at all, and I'll walk out that door and never bring it up again.
But if you DO have any feelings for me outside of as a friend, ANY feeling at all, then tell me now. Don't let me walk out that door. Don't let me leave believing that there is no hope, that there is no chance.
If you really care about me, if you care about my happiness, then you'll tell me the truth so one way or the other I can move on with my life."
Like I said, it's high risk. Be prepared to be hurt. Be prepared for it to possibly become uncomfortable. And if it gets messy expect that you may need to either take a break from your friendship or end it entirely.
Only you know how strongly you feel about her, and whether you're willing to put it all on the line.
wanderer1999
Joined:
2/10/2007
Msg:
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who should pay for an airline ticket the one that make most or the one that dont make almost nothing
Posted: 7/2/2012 10:08:58 PM
I think it depends on the relationship.
Some couples would prefer to split it or alternate, others will make other arrangements.
That said, if she can't afford to travel to see him so often, she should just say so. Then he can decide how much he values her visits and how important that relationship is to him.
If he values the relationship highly enough, they'll figure something out.
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