No. The chances of a crisis erupting from an approaching comet or black hole are microscopically slim, but there is a very real prospect of smallpox reappearing - by mutating again, because we missed some repository of it somewhere while vaccinating everyone, or (perhaps most of all) because somebody uses it as a biological weapon. That makes it very relevant to discussions of whether vaccination is a good idea.

whether flu shots are a good deal or not depends entirely on the details, and there is lots of reason to consider they are not.

My point, and hence the relevance of autism diagnosis, is that those studies only prove there is no obvious and measurable connection, because that's all they're capable of showing. The probability of error in diagnosis is so high that there's no chance of showing a subtle effect, which is the big concern here.

Bad example... Doctors and scientists do advise against eating too much tuna or other high-mercury seafood .

Almost certainly there are more and more false diagnoses caused by practitioners stretching the boundaries of diagnosis for various reasons; pressure, bias, simple keenness.

The bottom line is we can't conclude much of anything definite about what relationship there might be between environmental effects and autism, or any other neurological disorder, until we can reliably diagnose them on some physical basis and then track correlations.

All three of those criteria are very subjective and diagnosed on the basis of observation, not through any actual physical markers.

No. You're lumping all vaccines together, and they are decidedly not all of equal effectiveness, safety or benefit. Immunizing kids against polio is a no-brainer. That doesn't remotely prove that it's a good idea to immunize them against flu as well.

What they never tell you with these boasts is this: if and when smallpox re-appears (fairly likely since it's thought to be just a random mutation of cowpox) it will be absolutely devastating because almost nobody will have any immunity to it.

I've probably been immunized against more things than most people ever will be (last time I checked, I think the list was smallpox, polio, tetanus, diphtheria, whooping cough, yellow fever, typhoid, hepatitis A & B, Japanese encephalitis

It's also very well known from case studies that heavy metal poisoning (mercury in particular) can cause symptoms much like autism, as well as other neurological disabilities.

Furthermore, the current state of psychology/psychiatry/neurology is such that diagnosing neurological disorders, including autism and even more grossly obvious things like MS, is subjective and difficult - and there's no likelihood of that changing any time soon.

That presents obvious problems in running large-scale surveys to answer the question of whether small doses of neurotoxins cause subtle damage; even if there is a real effect there's not much chance of seeing it.

Thimerosal is just a preservative, and you can get some shots without it.

The American Medical Association have acknowledge earlier this year that there may indeed be some correlation with Autism.

AMA: Ruling Shows More Evidence of No Connection Between Vaccines and Autism
For immediate release:
Feb. 12, 2009

Statement attributable to:
Joseph Heyman, MD.
AMA Board Chair

“Three recent rulings by the Special Masters of the U.S. Court of Federal Claims provides even more overwhelming evidence that there is no association between vaccines and autism or related disorders. Vaccines are one of the best public health accomplishments of all time and have proven time and time again their ability to keep horrific diseases at bay. Measles, rubella, and polio are among the success stories of diseases eliminated in the U.S., but are still active in other countries and could rebound here.

“Autism is a heart-wrenching condition, and the upheaval felt by parents whose children suffer with autism is understandable – as is their search for answers. We need ongoing research into the causes of autism, but cannot let unfounded myths keep us from giving our children the proven protection they need against infectious diseases.”

# # #
Contact:

Mollie E. Turner
Public Information Officer
American Medical Association

I knew something had gone wrong with my child around the time she was given her vaccines of HTP....but then I know that is was ...it is my obligation to try to continue to protect my children from illness. My children continue to receive their vaccines on a regular basis.

As a parent of 3 children.... one with mild Autism...due to I strongly belief to some side effect of her childhood immunizations.

What if this 'vest' is full of stones and you know it. Woud you still encourage people to wear one ????
I'd rather wait for other ,safer "devices"....if any (since our 'lifeguards' have seemed to have a pact with devil).

funny no one responded to my comment that the American Academy of Pediatrics writes:

"Existing scientific evidence demonstrates potential medical benefits of newborn male circumcision; however, these data are not sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcision. In circumstances in which there are potential benefits and risks, yet the procedure is not essential to the child's current well-being, parents should determine what is in the best interest of the child. To make an informed choice, parents of all male infants should be given accurate and unbiased information and be provided the opportunity to discuss this decision. If a decision for circumcision is made, procedural analgesia should be provided."...

For every study that says there is less enjoyment of sex for circumcised males I can likely find one that says there is no difference in sexual enjoyment. And some studies say things like...
Adult male circumcision was not associated with sexual dysfunction. Circumcised men reported increased penile sensitivity and enhanced ease of reaching orgasm."
Krieger, JN; Mehta SD, Bailey RC, Agot K, Ndinya-Achola JO, Parker C, Moses S (August 2008). "Adult Male Circumcision: Effects on Sexual Function and Sexual Satisfaction in Kisumu, Kenya". The Journal of Sexual Medicine

As for health, foreskin harbors bacteria and viruses, therefore circumcision has health benefits. In addition to those already mentioned, circumcision can greatly reduce the incidence of HIV.

Experimental evidence was needed to establish a causal relationship between lack of circumcision and HIV, so three randomized controlled trials were commissioned as a means to reduce the effect of any confounding factors.[147] Trials took place in South Africa,[148] Kenya[149] and Uganda.[150] All three trials were stopped early by their monitoring boards on ethical grounds, because those in the circumcised group had a lower rate of HIV contraction than the control group.[149] The results showed that circumcision reduced vaginal-to-penile transmission of HIV by 60%, 53%, and 51%, respectively. ~wiki

lets ask the 6.6 million in 5 years from now after the flu is gone.

Why have humans survived and thrived for millions of years without pharmaceutical companies dictating the rules?

Why are viruses evolving more rapidly than ever before and re-combining in ways unseen in our recent history?

Why are our immune systems self-destructing?

Why are we being force-fed GMO foods?

What effects have pesticides and other man-made poisons had on our immune systems?

How sustainable for the species are these trends in the long run?

If numbers are the sole measure of success as a species, why do most other populations of creatures on earth crash when the numbers and density become too much for the ecosystem to support?

If we wipe out synergistic and vital biodiversity, all the canaries in our coal mine, how does this portend for our future as a species?

I think the rest of the folks on this thread are interested in finding out the truth about vaccines.

Va teen develops Guillain Bare hours after SF Shot (MSNBC):

www.msnbc.com/id/33845867/ns/health-cold_and_flu/

-Oh--and of course!! the CDC claims this is not from the vax!! Total BS!!

^^^this is fear based again... when you start hanging around people who eat healthy and who do not take meds and who do not get shots they are not spewing mucous, they are the epitome of health, bright eyes, nice dispositions, their children sparkle<<< this is a huge part of the proof, Living Truth on the matter.... blessings

The fact is that vaccination does NOT stop you from carrying bacteria or viruses in your nose, in your throat, in your intestines, in your airway, on your skin, or in your body.

But many do not understand the significance of this fact, and have been made to believe that if you’re vaccinated, you won’t carry viruses, and therefore, others will be protected because you’re vaccinated.

Man tortured and crucified Jesus.

Adult male circumcision was not associated with sexual dysfunction. Circumcised men reported increased penile sensitivity and enhanced ease of reaching orgasm."

Experimental evidence was needed to establish a causal relationship between lack of circumcision and HIV, so three randomized controlled trials were commissioned as a means to reduce the effect of any confounding factors.[147] Trials took place in South Africa,[148] Kenya[149] and Uganda.[150] All three trials were stopped early by their monitoring boards on ethical grounds, because those in the circumcised group had a lower rate of HIV contraction than the control group.[149] The results showed that circumcision reduced vaginal-to-penile transmission of HIV by 60%, 53%, and 51%, respectively.

^^^ God is Compassionate, He sent His Son ...

The irrationality against contracting the flu can be equated to the same irrationality of contracting illness from the vaccine. Why put yourself in the position?

On one hand, you have something natural. On another, you have something unnatural.
Natural is good.

thot would post comment on this discussing seeing that no one here acculty does martial arts.

yep, just like how people who have never examined Desiree Jennings claim her dystonia is a hoax when she was examined by 60 Dr's who agreed she had dystonia and it was caused bvy the vaccine. I agree-misinformation is eveywhere!

If you are a manufacturer of vaccines, how to you increase your sales?

Asperger's his harder to diagnose than Autism.

Autism has a genetic component.

I have not come on this thread to blame vaccines for all cases of Autism.

In my opinion, a vaccine is not, in the strictest sense, a medical product since it is meant for well people.

Particularly a vaccine that is hastily made in truly massive quantities by a company that might have released the disease...

For centuries people have used fear and controversy (i.e., gossip) as a marketing tool. Just look at this thread alone. Free "exposure."

I know several people with Asperger's who can't get a diagnosis of Autism. Even Asperger's syndrome is difficult to get as a diagnosis

Why are you so defensive about this as to bring your cat into this discussion?

I strongly suggest that you look into the available biological treatments for Autism. There are many that you could try with him that might relieve some of his mental and physical pain.

How do you know that the people accusing Wakefield aren't the ones lying?

When you say that Autism can be subtle, what you are referring to is that the diagnosis of Autism is made on the basis of observation of behaviors in the absence of the definitive knowledge of what actually causes it.

Until we know what causes Autism, we can't really definitively test for it.

A high fever can cause seizures. High fevers and seizures can cause regression. Regression in the area of language and social skills is diagnosed as Autism.

Regression in the area of language and social skills is diagnosed as Autism. This is a common pattern that parents of Autistic children usually describe when they talk to me about their child's medical history.

I think that the pressure and vilification he received about his research is very sad. This discourages innovation. His motivation was not to make a lot of money suing people. His motivation was to help.

It seems strange that medical professionals don't listen to lay people until they have it happen to their own families.

I went to see the local DAN doctor, and at that time, seeing the results he had with his own son, I put my son on the treatments, and he got better.

The increased rates of Autism are not from increased awareness. Autism was so rare that they didn't teach about it to Doctors in medical school...

Autism doesn't need a lot of knowledge to "detect" it -- is pretty obvious.

My son got the MMR. (So did I.) He developed a high fever and lost all language within a week.

Hell, offer up anyone at the Discovery Institute. I'm not a creationist, I follow this movement closely and I don't see what you're claiming. If they were I'd be on the front row shouting it down. Personal motives don't count. Show me where a leading ID proponent is using ID arguments as some sort of justification to accept Biblical creationist theology, particularly the literal six-day creation story.

And Autism is so prevalent now that it is getting hard to ignore this type of vaccination side-effect.

•1940s and 50s - Autism was primarily diagnosed in upper and upper-middle class families, those who could afford vaccinations.
•1970s and 80s - The U.S. government set vaccination goal rates, targeting approximately 97% of the population vaccinated. Federal grants and strict enforcement guidelines were implemented
•Before the 1980s, only eight vaccines were mandated.
•Early 1990s -Autism rates are listed as 1 in 10,000
•By 2000, the number of required vaccines increased to 22
•Early 2000, 1 in 150 children diagnosed with autism
•Since 1997, according to the CDC (Center for Disease Control) diagnosed ADHD increased at a rate of three percent per year. By 2006, the number of children aged 5-17 with ADHD was more than 4.5 million in the U.S.
•By 2009, the number of mandated vaccines has risen to 30, most of which are given in the first 18 months of a child's life.
•One in 91 children diagnosed with autism in 2009

1. (to a healthcare worker there, or active politician) as NSLass and others have noted, you are short of vaccines-but, didn't the Can gov't already prepay the vax? Or is this really explained by the egg development story (taking longer to produce, and all prepaid orders for vax will indeed be filled??).

2. (To anyone intimately involved with olympic athlete issues-trainers maybe?) How come if there is such a huge pandemic in Canada right now, the B.C. gov't is openly declaring a pandemic all day long in the news and yet NOT cancelling the winter olympics? Aren't they concerned about negative pr, or, people getting sick? Thanks for any knowledge shared-Wiyan

Great post Earth Puppy!

Somehow, I still find it difficult to understand how humans as a species, cannot survive without man-made chemical inputs for things like flu viruses.

Or, the only way we can have food is because it's not suffering from a pesticide deficiency.

Tamaflu resistance grew from 12% last year to 100% with this year's H1N1 virus.

The 1976 vaccine debacle and GWS ...

And there’s no need for the oxygen tanks that divers usually carry on their backs. Kang can hold her breath for a remarkable 10 minutes when underwater....Kang is one of 5,000 women divers in 100 coastal villages on the island, and she is part of the younger generation, even though she is in her 50s.
“Young women are shunning the profession because it is too much like hard labor,” Choa said. “And now the haenyeo are aging.”
Kang is almost the youngest in her diving crew. Her best friend and diving buddy, Kim Haeng-ja, is 63, considered by experts to be at the best age for haenyeo-like diving.
Among the women divers still working, 34.5 percent are in their 70s, followed by 37.9 percent in their 60s, according to a recent survey conducted by the local government. Only 17.6 percent are in their 50s, and the numbers start to decrease in the lower age brackets. The 40-something women divers only make up 8.8 percent and the 30-somethings make up barely one percent.

Ask yourselves who today is acting most like the Third Reich in demanding for removal of religious artifacts from schools...

and imposing secular belief systems...

These types of problems are solved with RESPECT

People are also addicted to the condescending feeling of "I know more than you" that science grants. If you want proof, just look around this board.

If there is an expression that requires more faith, than the expression, "absolutely everything came from absolutely nothing" (big bang theory), I'd love to hear it.

Evolution itself is quite provable and has been proven time and again.

You must use words that people use themselves in normal conversation outside of evolutionary theory, to avoid you making the obious mistake that happens so often, of blinding people with words they get confused about.

You have to prove it all, yourself, to the people you are proving to. You cannot quote any source, or state anything as a given that you have not first proved to those people.

Of course, you could prove it's always true, by citing every single case of every change that is intended to accommodate people of all faiths, and cite a link to the relevant protest of the majority of the country, that religion is being removed. Can you do that? If yes, then you're proved your point. If not, then it's only sometimes true, and probably false, just as often.

That's called lateral thinking.
Once you start using it, you start realising that everything you assumed was true, is mostly wrong, because it was based on what you were told, and not what you thought.

as equals to men in every way — except perhaps when it comes to arm-wrestling and peeing your name in the snow.

aremeself: how about 'I'm a monkey' shirt.

robeaves: Hang on.....I'm feeling a Gouldian mutation....why yes....I'm sprouting wings so I don't bump my butt when I fall off my motorcycle.....
If you can read him without laughing you've a better suspension of disbelief than I.

scorpiomover: As for examples, one only has to look at the commitment that people ascribe to Darwin's theory, and the way they see everything as being a part of evolution, that it qualifies under the notion of deism polytheism to be a "god".

"The undermining of the existence of human culture by the destruction of its bearer seems in the eyes of a folkish philosophy the most execrable crime. Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent Creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise."

"What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and reproduction of our race and our people, . . . so that our people may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the creator of the universe."

We are a people of different faiths, but we are one. Which faith conquers the other is not the question; rather, the question is whether Christianity stands or falls. … We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity … in fact our movement is Christian. We are filled with a desire for Catholics and Protestants to discover one another in the deep distress of our own people.
speech in Passau, 27 October 1928, Bundesarchiv Berlin-Zehlendorf, [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich]

Writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment of primitive Darwinism and Monism (Häckel). (Die Bücherei 1935, 279).