Show ALL Forums
Posted In Forum:

Home   login   MyForums  
 
 Author Thread: Man kills mother bear in self-defense...gets harrassed
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 32 (view)
 
Man kills mother bear in self-defense...gets harrassed
Posted: 10/28/2008 9:26:50 AM
Nutt, I wasn't judging you as having no knowledge or experience of bears. You made the following statement and it is what my reply to you was based on...."..even if he didn't need to kill the bear, he may have been unable to stop at that point."

Of the following you wrote..."..P.S. In Canada, people are not allowed to walk around with guns indiscriminately just because they are taking a walk in the forest..." you have my sincere condolances that Canadian law prohibits it's citizens from being able to freely arm themselves with a holstered pistol for any kind or recreation in wild life areas (day walks and hiking especially) so if something happens between a wild animal and themselves, they can immediately protect themselves and or family or friends.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 27 (view)
 
Man kills mother bear in self-defense...gets harrassed
Posted: 10/27/2008 2:58:12 PM
Your welcome Nexthyme. Actually I was raised in Montana from birth to age 19 and have pretty much been in Alaska for the other part of my life.
When a child, on trips to Yellowstone park in the 60's we use to feed the very domesticated black bears and sows with cubs from the car windows with other drivers doing the same. No one hardly got bit. It did happen but not as often as the feeding happened without people getting bit.
I mention that because here in Anchorage, enviormentalists have been fixing the creeks in the city to allow (once again) various fish, Kings especially to use them as they once did. Bears became a problem so the creeks were blocked off, bears shot when in the city limits and soon the bears understood through a few generations that this area (Anchorage) was not a safe place. They stayed away.
In the last two decades we have had an influx of real true tree hugging bear lovers that feel that wild life (bears) should have a right to live in our city since they were here first. So the smell of fish running up streams to spawn has been drawing bears to anchorage for well past a decade now to a growing population that has frightened many old timers in Anchorage. This was the worst year. I think we had four (un-provoked) bear attacks in the Anchorage area. People were doing as always, jogging, running, biking, walking with dogs and a bear and sows with cubs went on attack mode.

Having said that for those unfamaliar with doing things in an area that could have many forms of wild life that might attack you, the guy in B.C., he was doing as he always probably did, walking his dogs. Because he did not have a gun, I am guessing he was walking in a familiar area that usually did not have bear.

For Nutt, understand this one thing of bears....they are like a moose, (saw a man killed by one by being stomped to death on the UAA campus here in Anchorage) they do not stop attacking till they feel the threat is done and over with as in this situation with the B.C. man. I can tell you that this man did not get a chance to get up while the bear was attacking. The black bear was way to strong for that to happen. It did not state it but I am guessing when the bear stopped it's attack for a moment from where it had been chewing on his arm and side, he got up to run and seeing the bear ready to attack him again he by a blessing from above happened to find a sizeable branch within reach to defend himself. Most people (statistical fact) who are able to get up and try to run from a bear attack don't escape the second time the bear attacks them.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 5 (view)
 
Am i buying a stolen product?
Posted: 10/26/2008 8:28:12 PM
My first question would be which market? Ebay is a great place to buy new or used. Just make sure the person selling the camera or any item has been on Ebay for more then a year and or has a positive feed back of 300 or more.
I would also suggest that you check out online camera companies like Kodak, Fuji, Sony, Hewlit Packard, etc., as they always have sales on older models.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 21 (view)
 
Man kills mother bear in self-defense...gets harrassed
Posted: 10/26/2008 8:12:45 PM
Below is the main part of his interview from this link..... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1075830/Bring-sweetie-Man-kills-bear-stick-hes-got-scars-prove-it.html

A man who was attacked by a black bear while walking his dogs survived only after crushing the creature's skull with a stick.
Jim West needed 60 stitches on his head and body to close wounds from the terrifying attack.
The 45 year old was out walking his dogs on Saturday in British Columbia, Canada, when, he said, he heard a grunt and turned around.

"'All I saw was eyes full of hatred,' he said afterwards.
'I had no option … So I stuck my foot up and tried to kick her in the face.'
The bear responded by attacking him and knocking him to the ground.
'I rolled onto my stomach and clasped my hands at the back of my neck,' Mr West said.
'She tore into my skull at the back of my head, moved over and bit me on the left side of my body, on my ribs and left arm.'
But Mr West was not about to go down without a fight. Battling to his feet, he managed to grab a stick about as thick as his arm.
'I said, in effect, bring it on sweetie,' he said. 'I took one step forward — smash! I swung the stick and broke it over her head.
'She kind of stood there and shook it off, like she was stunned. I realised if I didn't continue the attack she would knock me to the ground again and I would not get up.
'I swung my piece of wood like a sledgehammer driving spikes and I kept swinging till she was lying flat on the ground and there was blood coming out of her nose.'

For those wondering he did state...."Battling to his feet, he managed to grab a stick about as thick as his arm." Now if anyone has ever hefted a tree branch the size of an average man's arm from forearm to bicept, with the exception of it being rotten, it is very much like a bat in composition and size. A black bear's skull is not large as far as compared to a skull of a Kodiak or Grizzley or Polar bear. Crushing a black bear skull would not take much effort, especially if your fighting for your life and extra adreniline is pumping it would become a quick happening as this situation attests.
If you doubt that, go to the link, look at the picture of the man's skull scars and then imagine the attack in progress, all the open wounds, all the blood, two dogs apparently barking but not fighting for fear as he did not state the dogs were helping to attack the bear in his defense. With the fear of death in his mind, bleeding profusely, adreniline pumping over time he (like other people on an adreniline surge) was able to use an abnormal increase in strength to battle that bear with that tree branch.

As for taking the cubs to a zoo, Park rangers (Conservation Officers in this matter) usually do not put down cubs that have lost their mother unless the situation warrants that action. We had a sow attack a woman up here in the city on a trail. They found the sow quickly and killed it. A DNA match was made of the bear's hair as being identicle to hair from the bear on the woman. The cubs ran and several days later were caught and put in the zoo. They were eating on their own before the incident so domesticating them to a zoo has great prospects.
This may not of been the case of these two black cub bears. From all that I could find to read on this and researching the area it happened in, IF.....IF these cubs were still being weened then that explains why they put the cubs down as they did not have the extra people or time to address these cubs to feed and keep alive till a zoo hundreds of miles away could be found that may or may not of been qualifyed to take care of them. Ever note most zoos have almost all grown animals and not infants/babies? You have to have specially trained personal to take care of and help to successfully raise a wild infant/baby animal that has no mother.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 22 (view)
 
The unique safe-haven law.....
Posted: 10/24/2008 8:42:42 AM
"Here you can leave a child under one, without penality at a hospital, police station, fire station, or the children's home (orphanage)."

That was an excellent point Mfrotyl. What you have stated above is a growing train of thought concerning newborns. But it does present a problem that many seem not to want to address.

With exception to rape, the purpose of sex has escalated to a recreational act. Many who use the act of sex for "recreational purposes" instead of the purpose it was meant for which was and is producing life, we now have avenues to escape responsibility for "accidents" that happen from two people having sex to have a good time. The safe haven law enforces this thinking that reasures a person or couple that if after having sex and an "accident" comes to be, well that is just fine because we have safe haven laws that enable you to just toss the new born off on someone else to be their responsibility. That enables that couple or person to go and have recreational sex again and if an "accident" happens again....just toss it the states way!
 MONTANAN76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 11 (view)
 
Weird day, Girl at my door Covered in Blood
Posted: 10/23/2008 8:30:07 AM
According to the date this happened two days ago.

In my opinion, if there is a knock on your door and a person with a lot of blood of their own asks for help, and you don't call the police even if they say don't, my thoughts are what is wrong with you? What is wrong with your thinking?

Lets analyze this by steps.....

A. you have a routinely normal day.

B. Knock on door, person with much bleeding asks for help. No one else around behind them.

C. You feel ok not seeing the attacker outside so you bring them in and in the bathroom help them to clean up/wash/be bandaged if possible and the wounds don't require stitching.

D. Hurt person does not want police called.

E. You respect their wishes thinking you won't call inspite of the fact they have told you a person has beat the blood out of them and possibly is going to do it again and you are afraid now to call the police to intervene?

I know this would have been a tough situation for anyone but...you should have excused yourself to an area of your home to use a phone to call the police.
That is what you should have done. Because if in the future this girl turns up dead from being beaten to death by the same person she spoke to you about who did it the first time.....you will feel guilt for not having did the right thing the first time.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 29 (view)
 
why do people commit suicide in general?
Posted: 10/22/2008 11:16:40 AM
Here in Alaska we have one of the highest national teen suicide rates for the states.

Most people wake up and do what they do. They continue this pattern all their life without ever contemplating suicide. Life is what they live for and it becomes a subconscious goal they go after every living hour.

Some of us see things differently. I am not sure why and I don't know why it happens to the fewer then the most in how they will see something and their entire life will change in minutes because of that vision.
The first time this happened to me I was in the 5th grade. I was walking up the stairs of my grandmother's house to the second floor. At the top was a window facing east. The sun had just risen. It dawned on me that for the rest of my life that sun would raise up every morning and lower each night and I would never affect or change that pattern. I remember being so depressed because of that realization for up to a week. I remember thinking I didn't want to live life if that was how it was going to always be. But I did not know how to take my life. If I had known ways to do it, I know I would not be here now. So one morning after waking I thought I should be glad for the way things were of how the sun rose and set and by changing my out look, I left my week long depression.

It is my opinion that many people who commit suicide do it because they see their life at present has no reason to remain being here (no matter the reasoning) and they want their time on this planet to come to an end.
Here's an example. When I was 18 I was drinking and smoking and doing an assortment of drugs and having what I thought was a great time in (1976). My girlfriend confronted me about my drugs and told me I had to choose them or her. I looked at my drugs, then at her and asked why she was still there. She left crying. I became immediately depressed at myself. I thought of what I had become, the drugs, the girls, going no where but living for my next high and next pair of thighs to spread and suffered a instant massive depression.
I thought my life was done and over. I was a worthless cause and needed to excuse myself from my wretched state of being. I swallowed 75 phenbarbitol tablets, (enough to kill a few people), stripped naked and got into my bed and decided if I woke again I would change but if I didn't then it was over and I would soon know if their was another stage after death.
To make a long story short an hour later (me in a chemical coma already) my best friend a few miles away and my girlfriend I had just shunned both felt impressed to come back to the apartment at about the same time from different directions and arriving at the apartment a minute apart found me near death.

It is the "reasoning" factor that the rest of us become caught up into for why others do it.
If you have a loved one or friend that has commited suicide, be at ease and know they thought it was the right thing to do even if for all the wrong reasons out there. It was a choice factor and more then likely in my opinion, it was not done for selfish thought but for an escape from this life.

It is as simple as that for me.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 13 (view)
 
why do people commit suicide in general?
Posted: 10/21/2008 9:15:13 PM
As mentioned there are a 1001 + reasons for committing suicide.

Almost all have contemplated it.

A lot have acted out doing it but to gain attention....not death.

Many have sadly succeeded.


There is a dark empty cold spot in everyone of us. Attitude is the difference of whether you come into contact with it or you don't.

Being so close to suicide is comparable to opposite of feeling extremely happy. It is a disposition of mind that is like slugging through the muck and mire of all the negative things you could ever entertain to think of for why you should not go on living for another day. A single event usually will set it off. That event will grow upon you like mold in your mind, clouding your thinking till you no longer remember what it was like to be happy and positive.
It is like being under the covers of your bed....no light, no hope, no thoughts of anything good or positive.
You move and exist like a hollow tube with a mental weight that bears down on you constantly that helps to convince you that dieing is the only answer.

Some people experience the above for months or weeks till they hit the bottom. A few can go through it in days before ending their misery.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 21 (view)
 
Spiritual values in our communities
Posted: 10/21/2008 7:31:07 PM
"Spiritual values are actually at the heart of moral failure."

Moral values deal with a want to do what is right and well. You don't have to be spiritual to have morals so blaming spiritual morals for the heart of moral failure would be a cynic's view point.

Moral values change from one era of humans to the next. They change because the value placed on how people believe of different things regulate how people shall react to certain things as good or bad.

Smoking was a great and healthy thing at one time. Beating the crap out of a child with a belt, rod, whip or fist was not a bad thing at one time. Marrying 13 to 16 year old girls to older rich men was a good thing to do at one time. Stealing a horse could get you hung by the neck. But killing a slave was ok. Gay men and women are fine and well now. But not to long ago you could get beat and killed for such acts if the community found out.

Societies deem what is moral and what is not and what they accept as moral has very little to do with religion/spirituality.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 42 (view)
 
Do you remember yourself before 1 year old?
Posted: 10/21/2008 6:56:18 PM
I have many memories of ages 4 and 5 while living at a farm. I have several memories back to ages 2 and 3, one memory of when my cousin and I were bathed in a large kitchen sink we were sat in. He pulled my ear hard and I cried. So I grabbed his till he cried. I saw pictures of the event years after I would speak of it.
I once thought it normal for most to have early memories but found out that was not true.
I have many memories when I was 4 and 5 of my dad putting me on his shoulders to watch the trains go by at a nearby train depot near the farm.

But don't ask me what I ate yeasterday and if I met you today, tomarrow like usual I probably would have forgotten your name. Go figure eh?
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 27 (view)
 
Threads you dread
Posted: 10/20/2008 10:46:47 PM
Threads aren't to be dread unless your given to prejudging without reading most of what is going on to understand it.
Most people read a post or two and reply without thinking of replying to the original subject matter the op put in it for questions and answers. Thus they just become a part of the mess the thread has became.
Then you have many here who don't have the common sense to realize that all newbies will be posting things most of those older pof's have read about and or replyed to so the older pof expects the newbie to understand in their opinion what the newbie has to talk about is not relavent if it's been chatted about before. I call it iritational thinking of the older pofs. Then the newbie takes offense at threads deleted by mods and the community and name calling begins and POF has become what it is, intolerant of repeated threads that newbies post because they have not been apart of the old posts.

So for the older POF's, have some patience and for the newbies, don't take offense so quickly. Learn to understand there is a dictatorship growing in these threads and if you don't learn it's rules, someone will teach them to you quickly.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 16 (view)
 
Histories Mysteries and The North American Contenent.
Posted: 10/20/2008 2:58:30 PM
In school we were and still are taught many things that are now held in question as being true and reliable. But before the present gets changed by new findings coming forth in the future, I suppose we need something to be taught.

It is my guess that disoveries in europe, Asia and tha Americas will be the unraveling of the theory that Africa is the birth place of humanity. A hominoid has been found 1500 miles from the target area of our birth. If it is deemed an "erectus" it will cause more problems then it already is doing.

What I really enjoy are the theories of explanations for how Native Americans coming from Asia gradually grew smarter and smarter till they began magalithic type building from Mexico to South America but NEVER in over 2000 years of making these huge cities out of stone that they didn't seem to once have the intelligence to make it back up to the areas of the USA and Canada to expand their territories with their magalithic building.
Now you can argue climate, social structure, lack of enemys to conquer, etc., for why they didn't but your reasoning will not explain why they did not migrate back up north to relatives they left behind who were still settling mostly the west and east coasts of North America and expand their building oppertunities.
The closest things we have to the South American cultures in the US are the Anasazi. They are the oldest building makers preceeding the Olmecs. Then we go forward in time and along come the Olmecs, then the Mayas, then the Aztecs and Incas nearly side by side till the Spanish showed up and put a halt to their superior intelligence that had taken who knows how long to become what it was since leaving Asia and like the snuffing of a candle, the Spanish put out the up to then ever growing intelligence factor and it was lost to the native Americans. They lost the ability to be ingenious in building and mathmatics and the heavens and agriculture etc.

My point being is don't ever tell yourself "This is when it began!" because tomarrow you may have to explain why your changing your belief. Again.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 6 (view)
 
Histories Mysteries and The North American Contenent.
Posted: 10/19/2008 3:35:52 PM
There are some interesting sites concerning this thread like on ancientamerican.com.

For those who would like to think and believe by what has only been found to substantiate their present belief that humans have been around for only so long....science itself is proving that notion unreliable as time goes on and it has now been proved that the hominoid family tree has so many branches that actually lived side by side that now science has proved the sky is the limit for how old humans may be.
Older and older skulls are constantly being found, constantly changing the date of how old the human family may be.
Along with the 'bone'discoveries are new discoveries proving that our far reaching ancestors who were once deemed only intelligent enough to make fire, hunt for food and live in a cave have now came to be known to have a complex social life not un-like our own complete with cave and village life styles, artistry, theism, trading with other people from far distances, took great care in burying their dead, etc.

Remember it was just over a hundred years ago that men of science (the few that were)knew humans 2000 years ago did not know how to sail the seven seas or that intelligent magalithic builders never existed on the Americas. Yet we know Egyptians were using the cocoa plant from the Americas. Science doen't want to address that one. Neither do they wish to address how Asians crossing into the Americas went from igloos to massive stone buildings complete with artisty, mathmatics, agriculture, their own writing system and knew the heavens as well as the Romans, Greeks or Egyptians. They also had massive highways we could drive a couple semi-trucks on but since we can't find any vehicles, they HAD to of been built strictly for walking so science will believe for the time being. On a certain plateau on it's edge there is the remains of something that looks like it could have been a giant catapult for maybe a hang glider.

If you wish to believe by only the evidence at hand, understand tomarrow what you now believe will be shown to be false by some other new discovery.

 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 18 (view)
 
Environmental-What??
Posted: 10/17/2008 11:22:15 PM
"I believe when you don't give a crap about Environmentalism, you are basically dooming future generations, not to a bad existence, but none at all - why do so many people think life on earth can't end, just because they really-really don't think it possible??"

The first thing to understand is most people do give a crap about the planet and do their part this way or that to recycle, etc.
That said, we now address the fact that few actually give a crap about the earth. They are a minority. You can live in a big city, do nothing for the enviorment but the garbage you dispose of is likely seperated and reused in more and more cities.

"- why do so many people think life on earth can't end, just because they really-really don't think it possible??....Have you heard of...9-11? Hurricane Katrina? Our current economical crisis? The biggest ignorance in our country is, "it can't happen to us!".

The earth's natural destuctiveness upon itself has always happened. It will continue to happen. Things will die and things will grow. It is an un-interrupted circle of life that has continued since it's birth. Some would like to think humans are going to destroy this circle with all our man-made polutants. Personally I doubt it. Right now in our day and time humans are after other humans and are holding them accountable for more and more things regarding the man-made destructiveness that is taking place world wide.

"...global warming has become irreversible..."
The above is an alarmists view and nothing else. The problem with believing that humans are the sole cause for global warming as even Joe Biden has stated is that they can't explain how the earth managed to have so many global warming or global cooling eras without the help of humans in the past. They are also stating by that belief that the earth will not and won't produce any more global warming or global cooling eras on its own as in time past till the one that humans have brought to be is finished taking place. Go figure that logic!

Do your part whether your a tree hugger or part time recycler...it'll add a few years to the earth's life.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 7 (view)
 
Ten fossils that evolved the tale of our origins
Posted: 10/17/2008 4:44:21 PM
Good posts but.....lets do some psych 101 contemplating here of how people read between the lines....incorrectly.....and also lets get one thing established.....I did not call theism a strength. Stargazer called it a strength. Even Rockondon alluded I said that by stating the following directly under what I said....."It always shocks me when someone considers this to be a strength instead of a weakness."

My point in saying....."Maybe theism isn't such a bad thing to believe in after all? It does have less changes.".....was to make a point that if one liked un-changing evidence/circumstantial evidence to hang on to so to maintain a belief in something, then maybe theism was a better belief because science changes each time a new discovery is made. Anything previously relied upon as a fact for what was or what is with a new discovery has to be changed.

I rely on science for the basics. But that is all. I find science to be one of the most un-stable things to believe in for an explanation for almost anything except to explain what is in present terms because I know given time something new will change what we now believe is true and well about anything concerning science. Some people like a belief that runs from a to z and back again. Some people like something stable, un-changing and I am one of those people.

Take the subject line.... "Ten fossils that evolved the tale of our origins...".....In 50 years from now how much do you think that statement will be held as true? Or possibly true? Indonesia has hundreds of isles beside the one called Flores.

The point of this thread is that there is no definet fact of how a human came to be or where we came from as long as new discoveries of hominoids and non-hominoids continue to be unearthed. Science can tell us what we are but the rest is sheer guess work based upon constantly changing finds for where we came from to become what we are. In that regards, theism does not change. I think that is why many find comfort in it for a belief in something.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 1 (view)
 
Ten fossils that evolved the tale of our origins
Posted: 10/17/2008 11:28:14 AM
Below is a link to an interesting article. My question is what do you think about the role science has in making it's statements of what and who we are descended from when the information constantly is changed and challenged? Maybe theism isn't such a bad thing to believe in after all? It does have less changes.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27225171

What stood out the most to me is that no matter what science thinks now about an issue, give it 50 years and that train of thought will have been subjected to change and doubt because of new findings.
The Rift Valley is "suppose" to be the birth place of human evolution. But the finding of a partial skull with parts of the jaw and teeth have split the scientific community that was contending as 'one' that the Rift Valley is our birth place because this skull was found 1500 miles to the north east of it. Those that want the birth place not changed of the human evolution challenge it was not an up-right walking hominoid.

It was long thought that the tree of human evolution developed one part at a time, not over lapping for long if at all.
Now we know branches of the human tree overlaped severly to the point where different parts of the scientific community don't believe certain hominoids had any effect on the next generation of hominoids at all but lived right along each other till one stoped existing, like with hablis and erectus, erectus being our grand-daddy in lineage (it is now thought) but hablis not (as it was once thought). Neanderthals are a prime example of this over lapping with modern humans.

Then we have little discoveries that really toss a wrench into things like with the Hobbit discovery of a species of humans on a island called Flores in Indonesian. The natives have stories of small relatives that have always lived there. Three skeletons have been found. But a part of the scientific community not ready to believe that another branch of the human family could have lived among us have decided to go the 'diease' way to explain this miniture human by claiming it's a modern human suffering from microencephaly, a genetic disorder that results in small brain size and other defects.

I think that Hobbs, one of the discoverers of the Hobbit skull summed it up best.....

"....There’s obviously many more branches to the human tree than we suspected," says Hobbs. "It’s definitely gonna change our world view of ourselves."
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 14 (view)
 
The unique safe-haven law.....
Posted: 10/16/2008 8:26:33 AM
"It is already illegal to murder - you don't want a law that allows children to live, but you want a second, redundant law punishing the murder of said children. Redundant, is it not."

Whowhatme, it is not at present murder, to dump a living baby in a garbage can or the sort. That is why I said there should be a law of first degree murder for doing such a thing. Dumping a baby in a garbage can is a slow sentence of death if the infant is not found in time. So whether the infant is found in time or not found in time, it should be a first degree murder charge for such an act.

"...you don't want a law that allows children to live..."
The above was a redundant phrase as we have many laws that allow the lives of children to live.
What we don't have are laws of first degree murder for setting an infant in a situation where they may or may not be found in time to prevent their death because one or both parents do not want to take care of said infant and leave their fate to the elements and a chance of being found by a passer-by.

Their are few laws against those that leave an infant to it's own mortality on the chance of being found for if it dies or lives because it has not happened that often in the 50 states. We also have to deal with a certain mind set in which this "dumping" is not seen any more of a criminal act then the ripping a living fetus from a womb as a whole or in parts. Thus the reason why "dumping" is not a first degree murder charge.

The safe haven law is a law that is based upon laws that already allow a mother and father to give up a infant they wish not to raise. You understand that? We have laws and have had laws that enable a mother or father and mother of an infant to give it up at birth. All fifty states have laws for that purpose. THUS......the safe haven law can be seen for what it really is, an extra excuse to allow the many to give up their right to parenting who are tired of doing it. The safe haven law is a short cut for a mother or father to by pass the paper work and questions people in positions of official capacity (like nurses-doctors-social workers) would normally want to know for why they wish not to raise an infant they were giving birth to.

The safe haven law in my estimation is an "extra" law to enable a person to not be held responsible to their choices (exempting rape situations) of sexual activity wherein they have an "accident" as it is termed today and wish not to deal with the "accident" so their name is not attached to any paper work showing they didn't wish to raise this "accident" so the "accident" would not show up on their door step 20 years later wanting to know why they were abandoned at birth.

Stupid is....stupid does....
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 8 (view)
 
The unique safe-haven law.....
Posted: 10/14/2008 8:49:42 PM
My problem whowhatme is with the entire law. Their should never of been one passed in my opinion. What should have been passed was a federal law of first degree murder for any person dumping a baby as has been done by a small tiny percentage of people leaving new borns in garbage cans, etc. Every state already has procedures and laws as mentioned to deal with disfunctional familys where a child or teen may need to be removed/given up for whatever reason.
This law does not protect a newborn that might be put in a garbage can. That is a action rarely done compared to the percentage of those that do the right thing with a new born. But this law now enables those who have decided they have "made a mistake" or are "tired of parenting" to have an out from their responsibility to their decisions.
Stupid is...stupid does...
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 70 (view)
 
What is the right war?
Posted: 10/13/2008 9:31:15 PM
To address the original question....as others stated, there is no right war. But is it right to defend someone else/or another country against another person/agressors? Some think yes and some think not. It is usually those aquainted with war by some direct/indirect fashion that see it as a needful thing at times against those who are seeing reality as most don't, like Hitler, Stalin, Saddam, Popot(sp?), etc? Some believe waving pieces of paper declaring what a dictator is doing is wrong and talking and protesting politely to stop killing their own people or those of another country is all that should be done.

One thing is for certain, killing is not the answer and one day maybe, our children's children will find that answer that eludes us to war no more.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 1 (view)
 
The unique safe-haven law.....
Posted: 10/13/2008 9:12:33 PM
Would anyone like to take a guess at what type of political thinking is enabling the following? Feel free to discuss your feelings.

updated 1:44 p.m. AKT, Mon., Oct. 13, 2008

Another teen abandoned at Nebraska hospital
Second teen from out of state dropped off in Omaha under 'safe haven' law

OMAHA, Neb. - A Michigan mother drove roughly 12 hours to Omaha so she could abandon her 13-year-old son at a hospital under the state's unique safe-haven law, Nebraska officials said Monday.

The boy from the Detroit area is the second teenager from outside Nebraska and 18th child overall abandoned in the state since July when the law took effect.

There was no sign the boy was in immediate danger before he was abandoned and no indication why the boy's mother decided to leave him at the hospital, said Todd Landry, who heads the state's Department of Health and Human Services' division of children and family services.
Click any of the Links below to access these Forum Categories:

Closed, but
accessible Forums »»		Politics
Current Events
Religion

Related Links:Changes to Forums
Links Removed

For the Time being, there is ZERO Tolerance for Trolls posting Flamebait,
Insults, or peddling Agendas. Automatic 28 Day minimum Vacation Package.
    Don't post here if you can't keep your "Cool"

Report offensive Posts as usual in the Forum Rule Violations Report Thread
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 6 (view)
 
Asian stew?
Posted: 10/13/2008 3:05:31 PM
Thanks for the replys.
I know of many types of fish stews (an Alaska favorite of fish lovers up here) but I guess I'll have to experiment. I know their are Leeks and various Asian vegetables to use instead of the regular ones I use. Will have to find some of that Japanese beef. Umm, gettin' hungry already!
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 1 (view)
 
Asian stew?
Posted: 10/10/2008 11:01:00 PM
I haven't looked this up on the net because I thought I would see what responses I would get here.

I was making what I term a basic American stew.... beef/carrots/celery/onions/potatoes/spices and I wondered what the Asian equvilent of this stew would be? Maybe with fish? I know they have different vegetables to use. Anyone have any basic recipes for a Asian beef stew?
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 16 (view)
 
Are all vacuums equal ?
Posted: 10/4/2008 9:44:12 PM
I have owned Kirbys, the best for a lot of money but heavy and cumbersom to use...to many attachments and many lower quality brands.
I came across a Oreck in a pawn shop for a $100. that was a year old. This is one of the best vacuums I have ever bought. They are light, have edge brushes and work really well for such a small compact machine.
Unless Kirby comes out with a new vacuum that is like the Oreck in shape and weight, I will stand by Orecks for a long time to come.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 36 (view)
 
what is EMO?
Posted: 10/3/2008 10:06:49 PM
The definition of my daughter and her friends in high school is short and simple.....
Emo is a few obvious things like a hair style usually worn over an eye...dark clothes prefered but not the custom...wearing your emotions on your sleeve but being normal like anyone else. Anything else is just reading to much into it they claim.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 229 (view)
 
How to understand the world if evolution were false
Posted: 9/25/2008 1:10:24 PM
How to understand the world if evolution were false....

Evolution isn't false. Many modern theists understand that evolution and God are a two part series, one not being without the other. No they can't explain that idea. But neither can evolutionists explain how a nothing came to be what is at present. They also have ideas that can't be explained away.

To go back to the question, evolution alone, unprovable. It has no begining. A God that creates, unprovable. But take a moment to consider a being, a being doing what other beings have done for time unknown, going somewhere, taking of what is there and creating a world for itself. Now evolution happens. The big bang, planets, stars, super novas, black holes, the evolution of the universes for a single planet so that it can come to evolve and exist with all things in a perfect order that doesn't happen to any other planet so that a single species of many species can exist and rule on that single planet so that species can become as it's creator.

Just an opinion.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 4 (view)
 
Washington's vision of the Republic
Posted: 9/8/2008 7:57:33 PM
Where did you get the story from Wendy? Is it fiction? Something from one of Washington's journals or diaries?
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 268 (view)
 
highlighted text - test thread
Posted: 9/8/2008 7:47:06 PM
Thanks tickettoride! I finally learned how to quote!


Cheers / Ticketoride
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 267 (view)
 
highlighted text - test thread
Posted: 9/8/2008 7:45:37 PM

a Montanan in Alaska.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 23 (view)
 
ABC's Charles Gibson lands First interview with Sarah Palin
Posted: 9/8/2008 7:37:05 PM
"Do you think Sarah Palin has control over the media? Sorry, wrong. It's the GOP machine that is in the driver's seat, and lucky for Sarah. I don't think she's nearly savvy enough to do all of this controlling."

Karma, you didn't read my post. Palin controlled the Alaska media up here with her silence. She would not be baited by them. She waited them out and allowed them to come to her when she was ready to address an issue. For politicians that have been worked over by the media like Obama and others, when the media barks, they answer quickly and obediantly.
My point is not about her politics. It is about the fact that she has quickly learned not to allow the media run her political career regardless the issue at hand. That is controll. She is using that controll right now with the national and world wide media. The fact that she is being careful with whom she speaks and where is proof of this. She is not looking to spar with the media over issues she feels are not relavent to her nomination for vp like her personal life and all family issues. The blood sucking media has whipped everything about her into a huge twister with the people loving it and like they'll do with any politician they want to fling out anything that pleases them in any order they dictate and will have the people also expecting that politician answering any question tossed at them or else. Well Palin isn't playing their game. And the media is pissed. So they have tossed out words like "hiding"..."scared" etc., to rile up the people which they have into believing their garbage because Palin won't play their game. She is making them play hers and like I said, when she is ready, you will hear from her and she will address the issues at hand. That is Palin's way with the media. Get use to it.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 12 (view)
 
ABC's Charles Gibson lands First interview with Sarah Palin
Posted: 9/8/2008 5:39:22 PM
The first thing that the media AND people are getting irritated about is that Palin isn't sticking her head out to get chomped on by the blood sucking media regardless of what issues the media and people want addressed. Thats just being plain smart and few politicians do it. The media end up running politicians with a deluge of inquires and questions coming from four corners and then some and politicians usually give up and let themselves get hammered till the media literally runs them afterwards by what they report of that politician and their opinion of them.
The media and people are irritated that Palin is in control of whom she speaks to and has not given up that power to do as she see's what is well and right for her in this instance with the media. She is not ignoring the people she is controling the media by what she won't give them to chew on and twist and make rumors about.
I will bet this period of silence is more of Palin's doing then anyone telling or suggesting to her what to do. She controled the Alaska media with her silence up her many times so for Alaskans who noted that, this silence is not new. It is not hiding. It is a controll issue and she will continue to controll it. You watch and see.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 322 (view)
 
Palin Bombshell about to be exposed?
Posted: 9/8/2008 11:36:17 AM
"Why would she feel the need to even send out letters asking if books would be banned if this was not her agenda? She almost put someone out of a job because they didn't fall into line with her beliefs... even according to your own post. Doesn't that scare you even the tiniest bit?"

Brandiw I didn't say I agreed with how she did her tests for loyality were well and correct. But I have had family that rubbed shoulders with politicians. So I have a bit of knowledge of politicians that go into a new office. The first thing they do is called "cleaning house." This is a normal thing all politicians do. They have just been elected to an office and some of the other employees in it might have been or were very against them in having that office. The mayor or politician cannot function if people in their administration are going to work against them. So they all have their own "tests of loyality" to see who will and who won't work with them. Those that fail the test get fired. This has been done in all political fields since or before the Romans. The media just want it to appear as something new which it isn't to make Palin look bad in this instance. And Paylin sent letters asking for resignation to several to see how they would react. Those that wanted their jobs came to her and spoke to her and she saw who she could work with who was not against her. But those that didn't want her to have that office and let her know their was a difference of opinion and they were not willing to work out that difference of opinion, like the librarian, they got their walking papers.

"Do you think the librarian just came out with this out of the blue? Palin was in there asking about banning books."
Halftimedad, this isn't just my opinion. I am writing what I am reading. We here in Anchorage and other cities have at times had to deal (like in other places in the USA) with parents, religious and not religious, who learned of certain material being avalible in school libraries (like the Stein fiction books, that was national) and wanted them banned.
Palin went to the city librarian and asked her IF she had to ban a book(s) from the city/school libraries for any reason for any period of time, would the librarian back her? The librarian said no all three times Palin asked her the same question. Palin saw the librarian as a person not willing to work with her in a possible scenario. So as others, she was fired and a librarian that was willing to work with her in that scenairo if it ever came to be was hired.
That is how simple that thing was and understanding what it was about.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 318 (view)
 
Palin Bombshell about to be exposed?
Posted: 9/8/2008 11:10:42 AM
This is proving to be very interesting to the insites of people in general. I am learning of peoples irrational fears like I was in a psych 101 class for phobias.
I don't agree with Palin and all her politics. Some I do and some I don't. But of all the irrational fears being shown....talk about over time.

"Just because Palin hasn't gone all out to push her fundamentalist views while serving as Mayor is not guarantee that she would not do so when given access to a much much more powerful position..."
Hey Simlasa, she hasn't pushed her fundamentalist views on Alaskans in her decade of politics up here. Now to many that would mean she doesn't do what you say she will do that she hasn't even made a slight or even now and then habit of doing. Thats is for most called irrational thinking. Kind of like driving a car for ten years that works well that you take care of and one day you wake up and are full of irrational fears of the engine blowing or the tires popping and you becoming hurt or dieing due to injuries. I understand your irrational fear in this matter but her record speaks for itself, she has NEVER pushed her fundamentalistic ideas or views on Alaskans so why would she begin to do it if elected VP?

"Her fundamentalism, lack of interest in the world outside of Alaska, and provincial ideals are more than enough to have me wanting her far far away from any seat of power."
Now this was excellent. Please explain to me how Palin has a lack of interest in the world outside of Alaska??? She is the governor of Alaska right? Did I miss that? Doesn't the governor of Georgia or Maine or Texas have also a lack of interest in the outside world according to your logic? That would mean none of them are qualifyed for VP if given the chance to become it according to your logic.

Talk about extreme thinking....
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 314 (view)
 
Palin Bombshell about to be exposed?
Posted: 9/8/2008 10:53:21 AM
"The only reason some books weren't banned is because the librarian stood up to Palin."
Very wrong. It was never voiced by the ex-mayor or the librarian that Palin's actual intent was to ban books. Prove it if you think you can. You won't because that was not Palin'e intent. The fact that the ex-mayor and librarian never stated they heard her state she was planning on banning books or that she and a group of people were planning on banning books proves it was not her intent. What would have proven her intent to ban books would have been for her to just do it. That never happened. The librarian didn't stand up to anything. The librarian only told Palin that come h*ll or heaven, no matter what the content of a book was if she got an ok to have it from the national office, it was staying on the shelf regardless of any parental protests.

"You're giving Palin credit because she wasn't able to ban the books she wanted to?"
I'm not giving Palin any credit for anything in this matter. I am stating what the issue was about according to the facts of what Palin, the ex-mayor, the librarian and a friend of Sarah's all had to say of this event and not what people want it to mean.

"The facts of the story are backed up by everyone associated with it, and not even Palin has denied it."
The RUMORED facts of this story is that Palin had intent prior to being a mayor to banning books and then burning them from the town library. UNFORTUNATELY, there are no facts to support that accuization.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 309 (view)
 
Palin Bombshell about to be exposed?
Posted: 9/8/2008 10:30:18 AM
Hey Teach, below is your link that you continue (as others do) to state from as it does not read. Paylin asked a question. The ex-mayor stated that. What the ex-mayor does not state that would verify your on going rumor of Palin being a book burner is that the ex-mayor did not state and never said that Palin had a list she showed him or she was focusing on or that she and others wanted to ban some books or anything of the sort as you wish to believe was her and or others intention once she became mayor.

"Did she want to ban books from the public library as mayor of Wasilla?

Yes, at least according to John Stein, the town's former mayor. Stein says Palin asked the Wasilla library "how she could go about banning books" with offensive language. It's not clear whether any book was ever banned."

Remember this is the ex-mayor's quote......"Stein says Palin asked the Wasilla library "how she could go about banning books" with offensive language."

Fact 1 again.....No Books Were Ever Banned.
Fact 2 again.....No Books Were Ever Removed.
Fact 3 again.....No Attempt To Ban Or Remove A Single Book Ever Took Place.

Fact 4 again.....that info would show more evidence that Palin was asking a question for a possible scenairo that one day could happen wherein the public at large (as it has happened before here in the Anchorage school librarys like with a writer called R. L. Stein and the mayor then had to deal with the situation) would demand a certain book be removed.

But unfortunately for the extremists here, that is not what she could have meant. To them, she was in cohoots with the religious right and they all had long long lists to be pulled from the public and school library shelves as soon as Palin hit her mayor office and book burning parties had been planned well in advance. UNFORTUNATELY for the extremists......none of that "assumed information" is at hand to be shown to exist or be true or factual because it does not exist.

If you want to dis Palin or the such have at it. But when you perpetuate a rumor that is only a rumor and has absolutely no substance, no facts or even the slightest circumstantial evidence to give crediance to it, well, you become no better then the rumor itself in perpetuating it.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 306 (view)
 
Palin Bombshell about to be exposed?
Posted: 9/8/2008 8:54:03 AM
Hey Teach (luv that pic by the way ) it took me less then ten minutes to do some research on this.

When a new mayor takes office, they have to deal with the fact that a good portion of employed people they will be working with didn't want them there. So mayors all over the world do their own types of loyality tests to see who they can count on and who they obviously can't. Politicians in all types of offices do this thing. It is normal. Palin did it when elected mayor.
Palin sent out letters asking for resignation from several higherups she would be working for and not just the librarian though the media and bloggers leave that fact out. Emmons the librarian got a letter from Palin asking for her resignation. Similar letters went to police chief Irl Stambaugh, public works director Jack Felton and finance director Duane Dvorak. John Cooper, a fifth director, resigned after Palin eliminated his job overseeing the city museum.
Palin told the Daily News back then the letters were just a test of loyalty as she took on the mayor's job, which she'd won from three-term mayor John Stein in a hard-fought election. Stein had hired many of the department heads. Both Emmons and Stambaugh had publicly supported him against Palin.
Palin wanted people that would work with her and not against her. She soon found out who they were. Emmons the librarian was one of them.
This thing with the librarian shows how far into the future Palin thinks about possible things she may have to address if they should ever come up while she is in office.

Fact....she asked Emmons three times if she would remove questionable books from the library if need arose. Emmons said no each time. Emmons would not even think of the possibility that maybe something might come forth in the future wherein a book might cause a problem that it might need be removed for some purpose and if that happened would she be willing to remove it? Emmons said absolutely not. Palin saw Emmons unwillingness to work with a possibility that could happen as not a good thing for her administration as the then mayor. So she fired her.

Fact not spoken about....Palin NEVER removed a single book from the library. Palin never TRIED to remove a single book from the library. Palin herself, questioned at the time, called her inquiries rhetorical and simply part of a policy discussion with a department head "about understanding and following administration agendas," according to the Frontiersman article. But none of that is spoke of about when people accuse Palin of being a book banner who actually didn't ban a single book.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 304 (view)
 
Palin Bombshell about to be exposed?
Posted: 9/8/2008 7:42:07 AM
Your response Rayzrsharp is an example of what many think. The first thing I remember is that Palin has been doing politics for almost a decade from small things to now a governor. Her personal opinions have changed little at all if any. She has not used her personal opinions/beliefs to reshape Alaska laws and statutes. She's never pressed the school districts to do as she thinks. She's never tried to change how women think of abortion by trying to make new laws. She has never tried to use her religious beliefs to help make policies or laws in Alaska.
I know the many that don't know Palin have their doubts and that is fine. But I don't have doubts because I know how she has been here in Alaska for a decade and I am betting the "bigger leagues" will not change her as much as people think it will. Her politics and beliefs in them will grow and change and adopt like any politician. But Palin as the person, the media here has not shaped her and it won't down there. I agree she will choose her words more carefully when speking to the media now though. But the Palin you see is the Palin that will be.

If Palin becomes VP there is a surprise coming for many. I personally think the most that hate/dislike her (dems and libs) will be pleased after seeing her in action in office because though Palin lists herself as a republican, if anyone does any research on her politics up here they will soon learn as most of us know in Alaska that Palin by her actions is a Republican with a heavy lean to liberal thinking.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 291 (view)
 
Palin Bombshell about to be exposed?
Posted: 9/7/2008 11:36:13 PM
"As I said many times before, NOBODY KNOWS SARAH PALIN! Nobody. And she's not helping her cause by hiding out."

Actually the lower 49 states don't know Palin. We in Alaska do. We have known her since her mayor days. She is strongly opinionated. But unlike it was voiced above, she doesn't make her opinions into laws. She weighs the evidence, consults and makes decisions like tackling the oil companies that no other Alaska governor would do for Alaska's profit and gain and we now have billions in the treasury from the last years oil prices.

And just my opinion of the governor and watching how she is with the media here in Alaska, Palin does not let the media controll her like other political canidates or politicians do. She doesn't kiss their *ss so they'll say nice things about her. Palin has always used the media for the real purpose the media is suppose to be there for, to give information to the people when they need to hear things. She has refused to let the media run her life up here and keeps her mouth shut when around them for most of the time. She knows how the media can take a word and twist it for their profit.
She is not allowing to let lower 48 media run her any more then the Alaskan media and that just pisses off the lower 48 media. The lower 48 media want to do to her what they do to Obama and Bush and Clinton and all the rest.
The media is a blood sucking machine and takes no prisoners and Palin knows that and you watch and see if I am not correct, watch her future interviews and note how she runs them instead of the interviewer running her.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 278 (view)
 
Palin Bombshell about to be exposed?
Posted: 9/7/2008 8:01:50 PM
"My favorite comment last week was from Jon Stewart of the Daily Show. He was talikint to Newt about Palin's foreign policy experience coming from Alaska being close to Russia (I can't believe one of the McCain team said this on TV). He said well the North Pole is close to Alaska too, that must mean she knows Santa!
I'm still laughing about this one."

I'll have the priviledge to illuminate to those reading this a something that the many, especially those in the lower 48, are very ignorant of because they actually have absolutely no knowledge about it, neither the media, or anything they would let on knowing about.

I know about this and it's extensiveness because my dad worked on a few of the original radar sites up here during the cold war era that are based along the west coast of Alaska as a civilian personal on a military site. The military runs them, but the various governors have over saw them and what goes on and what is observed. A bit of forign policy actually goes with the job as an Alaska governor. What Alaska governors have reported of Russia over the past decades no doubt help to shape policies. Before the lower 48 ever really knew about it, our governors had been doing the political thing with Russian politicians to it's military leaders to their embassadors for decades. The job as an Alaska governor deals heavily with the national security of the entire USA. Not many know that as Alaska is also referred to as the attic door to the USA. Our governor addresses Washington directly in many matters concerning national security that the other 49 governors never get experience with because security for them is just about their state. Because we are so close to Russia, our governors become very military orientated regarding state and national security issues. Our governors become well versed on forign policies with Russia because we are the only state that sits within eye sight.

Palin is now the governor. She is dealing with issues she'll never be able to elaborate on or to use to benefit her political career. She maybe a newby for higher office politics but in her year and a half as governor she has more experience with dealing with one of the largest feared nations on the earth then any present governor could hope to get experience with. As a vp, she would have experience in national security and forign policy we will never be told about.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 24 (view)
 
Criminal Sexual Conduct laws too lenient in some cases?
Posted: 9/6/2008 10:00:41 AM
"Any one ! that does this should be Killed on th spot!! Any one who agrees should also be hung !!"

Excellent mentality hywman. Lets go one step farther in the direction you are taking it. Offenders of violent crimes usually begin with violent attitudes/thoughts/etc. Lets find any and all espousing any form of violent thought and kill 'em all! That'll keep 'em all from committing a crime in the future because of their violent thinking. And since you are espousing death and hanging which is violent thinking, step up to be shot or hung hywman, you get to choose your manner of death!
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 22 (view)
 
Criminal Sexual Conduct laws too lenient in some cases?
Posted: 9/6/2008 1:03:27 AM
Being aquainted on this topic for knowledge of laws and how they work for offenders, (with the exception of first time criminal actions that have been shown to be premeditated and planned out and acted upon) 1st time offenders of most any crime are always given leneancy in the court because it was a first time offense regardless of what it was. Courts see that first time offenders have the best chance for not reoffending if proper rehabilitation is offered to them. Courts have to pretend that rehabilitation exists in prison for political motives least they admit the truth and lose their own jobs. But prisons and jails are still your typical human warehouse project with no rehabilitation avalible except for prison officials telling the inmate that if you don't cause problems and do as told, you might see an early release because being good insinuates your rehabilitated even though prison officials and parole boards that is very far from ever being true. So as most come into a prison or jail, so they shall exit it with the same problems unaddressed and thus do as they do and reoffend.

In the case of the man mentioned by Babyboo, eight years is a long time in prison for any crime. It is near a decade of one's life time. Most courts understand that since rehabilitation does not exist, hopefully a long time in a prison or jail will help a person to consider maybe not reoffending. That is the courts only measure of hope.

As to locking near everyone up for hurting someone else mentally and or physically as has been expressed here, courts are already doing that and thus it establishes a new but old problem of over crowding and more crimes in prison and more reoffenders who reoffend because they have not had any rehabilitation to help them make a new mental change in how they see things so the odds become less for reoffending when released.

No criminal act is right. Everyone suffers from crimes if you also figure in the amount tax payers pay to fund the prison system. But it does not help that there is a "Lock 'em up and toss away the key" mentality that has kept a rehabilitation factor from being financed in the jails and prisons to rehabilitate those with a first offense. I personally don't believe in a rehabilitation factor for a second time offense or more. Straight time should be the sentence flat out.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 16 (view)
 
basic question about creationism logic
Posted: 9/6/2008 12:20:59 AM
"Ideally, if Jesus was real and in fact did all of what he did, there would be other references that existed about his life (ie Roman scribes, etc). There currently isn't much in the way of outside corroborating evidence,..."

All of us have this really bad (but normal) habit of making comparisons of the past to our present time to understand how things worked in the past for people.
First, the definition of freedom of speech 2000 years ago does not have the same definition that we hold to it today. You just didn't write about anything or anyone. You could get executed for that.
2000 years ago Christ began a new religion and most jews/romans/gentiles came to hate him, thought him a fraud and a wolf in sheeps clothing and a false prophet to mention a few things according to the scriptures.
While alive and after his death, his religion was sought after and quite literally destroyed in any fashion that destruction could be done to of his followers and their writings and meeting places. If the pharisees and romans and who knows who else sought their lives, it makes sense that they would destroy anything related to their beliefs, especially any written material.
That reasoning and the fact that their is little to no writings from Christ's time testify the reason for little to be found. But I do believe that something will be found, later then sooner that will give validation to the story.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 20 (view)
 
Tithing While Bills Go Unpaid
Posted: 9/5/2008 11:20:06 PM
"I was at my children's Dad's home a week ago..."

I read that as she being at her dad's home where her children were. Not as she being at the home of the children's dad who was her ex-husband. So yes, the new info invalidates what I wrote and he as the dad to the children should be giving to those kids first and tithing second in this case. I am sure God would understand the need of those children before the need of that church.<img src=http://www.plentyoffish.com/smiles/icon_201.gif border=0>
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 2 (view)
 
Dominionism or Reconstructionist Theology
Posted: 9/5/2008 3:55:01 PM
Well my first question is about the following......
"It also appears that Sarah Palin is a member of a misnamed group called Feminists for Life."
The word "appears" seems to be quite the misnomer in this case if there is no fact about whether she is or is not a member of FFL. To begin a discussion of Palin being extreme in abortion type thinking without knowing if that is how she actually feels and thinks and openly supports, not good in my thinking.

I will agree for what I have read of her thinking and for what I have heard of her speak of that she could be well associated with dominionism. It would not be a purposeful action on her part to be that thing I think but more of a this is how she is and we can fit that term to her.

I got the following from Wiki about her religious history. I am guessing it is mostly correct.....
"Palin was originally baptized as a Roman Catholic, but her parents switched to the Wasilla Assembly of God, a Pentecostal church, where she was rebaptized at age 12 or 13, and attended under pastor Ed Kalnins until 2002.[118][119] When she is in the capital, she attends Juneau Christian Center,[120] another Assemblies of God church. Her current home church in Wasilla is The Wasilla Bible Church, under Pastor Larry Kroon[121] an independent congregation.[122][123] Palin has described herself as a "Bible-believing Christian" who attends a non-denominational church.[124] The National Catholic Reporter described her as a "post-denominational" Christian.[125]"

118 ^ Decker, Cathleen and Michael Finnegan, (August 30, 2008). "Palin has risen quickly from PTA to VP pick". Los Angeles Times. Retrieved on 2008-08-30.
119 ^ Gorsk, Eric (2008-08-30). "Evangelicals energized by McCain-Palin ticket", Associated Press. Retrieved on 2008-08-30.
120 ^ "Statement Concerning Sarah Palin". Juneau Christian Center (2008-09-03). Retrieved on 2008-09-04.
121 ^ Pepper, David. "Regarding Governor Palin: A Letter from Pastor David Pepper". Church on the Rock. Retrieved on 2008-09-04.
122 ^ "Wasilla Bible Church FAQ". Retrieved on 2008-09-05.
123 ^ Lisa Miller and Amanda Coyne. "A Visit to Palin's Church: Scripture and discretion on the program in Wasilla." Newsweek. Sept. 2, 2008.
124 ^ Newton-Small, Jay (August 29, 2008). "Interview with Sarah Palin". Time.
125 ^ Allen, John. "McCain's VP choice a woman — and a post-denominationalist". National Catholic Reporter. Retrieved on 2008-08-30.

When I hear of a person belonging to a specific religion or spreads themselves out as Palin apparently does, I first remember that because a person belongs to one or more then one religion, that does not mean they endorse all that is written and spoken within that one or more then one religious circles they attend to.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 16 (view)
 
Tithing While Bills Go Unpaid
Posted: 9/5/2008 3:02:33 PM
I have some questions Ameerra so you can help me to understand this better ok?

"I was at my children's Dad's home a week ago and found, to my horror, a tithing envelope with about $300 in it for a church of which he's a member.
I say to my horror, because before this he had told me that he didn't have any money to give me for the start of the school year. Yet, here was $300 sitting in his home in this envelope."

You are 37. You have a graduate degree. You are a writer. You have children. You have your own life happening. My question would be why are you looking to your dad for financial help? I'm not saying it's a wrong thing to do as I did it when younger. But if I had been in the same situation I would never have did and acted as you. That I find wrong that you expect his money to be your money when you needed it. Next, if that money was for tithing to his church, then he was truthful in his own way that he did not have any money to loan or give you the week before when you asked. It was for the church he supports. Not for himself or you.

"I wrote quickly wrote this scripture (Luke 11:42) on a piece of paper and stuck it in the envelope. "How horrible it will be for you Pharisees! You give [God] one-tenth of your mint, spices, and every garden herb. But you have ignored justice and the love of God. You should have done these things without ignoring the others."

Would you like me to give you verses that speak of selfishness and greedy behavior wherein a person feels they should have or are owed what is not theirs?

"and added a note that he shouldn't forget that two of his children were starting school on Tuesday (it was Wednesday) and needed clothes and school supplies."

Now your answer to my next question of the above will validate or invalidate what I have already said since I am learning more from you that you didn't explain. Do you mean your dad is raising two children of his own in his home and decided that tithing was more important then clothes and school supplies for them? If that is true I wholly agree with you that it was a huge error of judgement on his part and that the health and well being of his kids he is raising at his home should come before any tithing.
But if the phrase "...two of his children..." means your kids, meaning his helping to financially take care of your kids, I would want to ask why you are expecting him to help you with your financial needs for them when your graduate degree has gotten you a job as a writer?

"A couple of days later he told me he'd found my little note and gave me $200 -- he said he'd give me more that afternoon and did."

Again I don't understand if he has kids to raise and feed in his house why are you asking him for money? That does not paint a good picture of you and your intentions.

"I don't understand why people would monetarily support a church while putting their own responsibilities aside and tell themselves that they are following God's law?"

If he is not taking care of his kids in his home that are his, I agree with you.
But......if the kids you mention are your's and not his, he does not have any responsibility to you or your children to help you out financially. That would be like your dad thinking your money you recieve is his money when he needs it and if you don't loan or give it to him......"How horrible it will be for you Pharisees! You give [God] one-tenth of your mint, spices, and every garden herb. But you have ignored justice and the love of God. You should have done these things without ignoring the others."
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 156 (view)
 
Palin Bombshell about to be exposed?
Posted: 9/5/2008 1:17:16 PM
"As of 1985, Montana did not have sex education in public schools!"

On one part your correct Exodus, we didn't have a sex education class. But what we did have came under a different term you have missed my using....we called it health class. It was actually called health and home economics if I remember correctly. Now if you'd like to dispute what it was called that is fine. but if you wish to dispute my memories of the young pretty dark haired teacher and what she taught us in that class in my junior year in Montana in 1976, please go for it.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 149 (view)
 
Palin Bombshell about to be exposed?
Posted: 9/5/2008 11:28:08 AM
"I have taught Health Education at the high school level. Either Montana is extremely different that CA or your daughter is really pulling your leg and making a fool of you. That isn't how abstinence preferred and protection from pregnancy and STDs is taught."

Actually Cncgandolf, I have seen the materials and been in the classes. Many parents raised a voice at sex ed classes at just the middle school level up here because they were becoming to graphic with visual aids and they have been toned down. The high school level is a different matter with different politics because we're dealing with teens becoming legal adults instead of preteens to early teens. In the high school classes they have "how to" discussions if the kids go that way for how sex is preformed. They teach them how to properly put a condom on a dildo. They have pamphlets for hetros and homos showing the graphic "how to's" of sexual inter- course and oral sex. This is now deamed and termed "Graphic sex-ed 101" by those who see the difference in how sex-ed was once taught to what is now shown of how to do it.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 142 (view)
 
Palin Bombshell about to be exposed?
Posted: 9/5/2008 11:09:42 AM
First about the post, the rumors perpetuated by the Enquirer of Palin's infidelity are about a time era when her husband was in a business with a friend. They (he, Palin) disbanded the business. Rumors afterwards were that he broke the business because Palin had an affair with his partner, he forgave her and then dumped his partner.

Good post Halftime. Your about my age so I don't know about your area when in high school but in Montana in two different middle schools and two different high schools hundreds of miles apart, (my dad moved a lot) in health class we were taught about (by diagrams in the health books) the human body, the penis and vagina, told how one was inserted into the other for procreation and educated about the various birth control methods of the day which were mainly condoms and the pill. We were also educated about stds and how easily they could be caught. We were also always advised that waiting, abstaining from sex till later when more mature was the best thing to do. The afore mentioned is basic sex education 101 and worked very well.

In contrast to what is taught today in the 2000s many parents of the 70s and 80s and 90s now call graphic sex 101. It is not a class about sex any more but a class of how to preform sex. That is the disagreement that many are having. The difference between teaching sex and how to preform sex.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 302 (view)
 
Sarah Palin's 17 year old pregnant daughter!
Posted: 9/5/2008 10:40:37 AM
Geelee, I am surprised at you! You state you have worked in public education and have did so for 25 years. You also at present live in one of the more liberal minded states in the US. Then you compare your school district to the rest in the US? Every school district has a different teaching policy on sex ed in middle and high schools and you should be well aware that those programs are well dictated by the politics of that area. That makes the teaching methods very different from district to district and state to state. In the seventies in Montana in the capitol in health class we had dildos we shook and teased and laughed about as we were taught how to put a condom on them! In the 1970s!! They have come much farther in what they now teach in health classes about sex and that is why many parents say it is to sexually graphic. They have illustrated pamphlets and booklets in schools in health classes that show various sexual acts by hetros and homos. They have films/cds that go over the very same material in some districts where it is a very liberal area. They also in some areas show and reveal various sexual toys used by adults for further sexual education.
Palin like many are against such extreme teaching methods. Teaching about human sexuality and the human body and it's parts is one thing. Teaching/showing how to preform sexual acts with or without sexual toys to explain human sexuality, not needed. Not needed at all.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 133 (view)
 
Palin Bombshell about to be exposed?
Posted: 9/5/2008 10:16:52 AM
Hey Exodus, if all you can concentrate on is my spelling, you do have issues which explains this post....
Second, not everyone (apparently unlike yourself Exodus) wants a liberal minded middle school or high school teacher to be showing their kids with graphic visual aids/material for how to properly roll a condom onto a dildo or how have anal sex and or vaginal sex and or how to give head in case one day they decide to do one or more of those things or if they are doing one or more of those things, they can see if they are doing it correctly according to what the liberal minded teacher is teaching.

The above is what you support by stating....."Please, don't EDUCATE MY children at all, I'll wait for a well educated Liberal that lives by the values they espouse.".....if that is what you believe, have at it.
 montanan76
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 294 (view)
 
Sarah Palin's 17 year old pregnant daughter!
Posted: 9/5/2008 8:50:02 AM
Steelcity, some are under the impression that Palin wants abstince only sex education in schools with nothing else taught or shown. That is actually a lie perpetuated by rumormongers who don't take the time to read what she actually believes.

This may have been pasted before but it came from the Eagle forum, a piece given to those running for governor up here in the 2006 election to fill out to explain their beliefs. The following is what Palin wrote of school sex education and her personal beliefs.....

3. Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics, and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?

PALIN: Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support.

Now do note that Palin has stated that she is against EXPLICIT SEX-ED PROGRAMS, but not against what use to be the basic 101 of sex education before liberals decided it needed to be more graphic with actual xxx type movies and magazines showing hetros and homos doing the bump and grind in anal, vaginal and oral acts with condomes and dildos handy so they could be taught how to roll them on. That type of sex-ed is to graphic. It actually promotes sex because the films and magazines have an actual high content of erotica that even parents viewing the films and material found very arousing instead of educating. Extreme sex-ed does not teach any form of abstince. If you do not believe this, I challenge you to visit your local middle and or high schools in your area to have shown to you what exactly are used for sex education materials in the class regarding films and or magazines and or sex toys.
 
Show ALL Forums