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 Author Thread: Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
 pilgrim_sojourner
Joined: 4/9/2007
Msg: 68 (view)
 
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
Posted: 1/26/2008 12:39:50 PM
I've heard a lot about the figure of $60,000/yr being bandied about here. Maybe we need a 'reality check' on that, too?

The REALITY is that, after a minumum of 5 years of University, a beginning teacher makes a royal.....$37,000/yr, hardly a 'kingly' ransom....for the education required.

Contrast this with the quoted starting salary of a dental hiegenist, for example, at $49,800/yr.....or $41,700 for Newspaper Reporters......or......$40,800 for systems analysts.....and we see that this is hardly a 'generous' remuneration, even to begin with.

It takes up to 11 years for a teacher to rise through the annual grids to reach maximum increment....ie; the maximum salary provided. Using the assumption that most teachers are in their mid to late 20's when they graduate, they're pushing 40 by the time they reach their top increment.

I'd like to know more about the sources of the $60,000/yr figure....does this include administrators too? I would think it does....which would skew the figure upwards quite a bit. Does it include School District administrators as well...which would artificially bump the figure up dramatically? Principals and Vice-Principals all have to have at least a Master's Degree...which would then up their post-secondary education from a minumum of 5 years (typical teacher) to 7-10 years, depending on whether they have a Master's or a Doctorate.

Bottom line, many, many teachers are earning waaay down near the bottom of the wage spectrum.....rather than anywhere near $60,000/year.

Statistics.....and numbers....can and are misused to create false impressions.....on BOTH sides of any argument.
 pilgrim_sojourner
Joined: 4/9/2007
Msg: 67 (view)
 
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
Posted: 1/26/2008 12:13:35 PM
Quote:"Because everytime there is a pro d day (which coincidentally falls on every long weekend), I and a lot of other parents out there have to make other arrangements or take a day off work ourselves... thus losing us money."

Now...just re-read what you just wrote......doesn't that sound a lot like your REAL attitude towards the Educational system is that they/we're here solely to provide you with DAYCARE?

Sorry...but looking after your children when you're at work (OR at play) is YOUR responsibility, not society's. Don't get me wrong....I've experienced all of that when MY OWN children were young.....and it is indeed a problem.....so is my car breaking down when I 'need' it to get to work...etc...but.....it is NOT society's problem, it is your problem. I mean...what's the solution? Have year round schooling......so you won't be inconvenienced? Don't give teachers ANY days off? Send kids to school throughout the summer too? What?

Incidentally....pro-D days are certainly NOT tied to long weekends, and....it is NOT teachers who set them anyway...it is individual school boards....made up of whom? Yup! That's right! Individual members of society (can we spell PARENTS?) who've been elected to do that job.....in other words....your very own PEERS.

I used to be the first one to jibe my friends who were teachers.....you know...."Hey, you only work 5 hrs a day.....9 months a year.....what a soft touch!"

Having worked now for some 5 years in the educational system (not as a teacher), I've drastically altered my viewpoint. After 6 hrs dealing with kids...and their related issues and problems....not to mention trying to inject some academics into them, social skills, behaviour, values....and much more.....I/we are DRAINED. (much more-so, by the way, than I was during the 25 years I spent working in maximum security prisons for 12 hrs/day)

The teacher in my class arrives at school by 7:30 AM.....and is often still there at 5 or 5:30 PM...marking.....lesson planning....etc.....and that's not even touching the work at home....OR the money spent out of her own pocket for classroom expenses...without which the kids would simply do without, because there's no budget for it.

When's the last time YOU were expected to spend YOUR hard-earned wages, providing things that your employer should.....buying stuff to service your employer....or your employer's customers? Yet....the vast majority of teachers that I've had the privilege of knowing over the past 5 years do just that.

Are there 'bad' teachers? Incompetent ones? Yup! Same as every other occupation, I guess. However, I have to say that the overwhelming majority of teachers I've met and known....have been caring, hard-working, dedicated individuals. Those who think it's going to be a 'cake-walk', or who are only in it for the money.....soon find other things to do.

As far as the 'right to strike' goes.....having spent 25 years working in what is arguably one of the hardest, most negative jobs in society (prison), and having been called a 'public service'....thus not entitled to the same basic rights that all other citizens have....that of withdrawing their services as part of bargaining for a fair share of the 'pie'.....I have a problem with anyone defending THEIR OWN 'right' to strike....but totally willing to deny that same right to other segments of society.

Perhaps a more cogent application of this principle would be to NOT allow politicians to increase their own wages....after all....when they RAN for office, they KNEW how much it paid. IF they weren't satisfied with that.....then why did they run? You want to get me onside in THAT argument.....perhaps we need to tie politicians' wages to productivity indicators in the marketplace? Remunerate them according to how they 'perform'? In OUR Province.....most times...they'd wind up owing US money, rather than the other way around.

Now...the segment of 'education' that I'm in (special education teaching assistants)....ONLY gets paid when children are IN school. So....we try to eke out an existence on 9 months pay a year.....and a maximum of 6 hrs pay per day. (Many, many, only get 4 or 5 hrs/day) Is it any wonder that the majority of them are women....men make up only some 8% of teaching assistants. It is simply virtually impossible to survive and raise a family as a primary wage earner doing this.....whether married or single-parent. I have a part-pension coming in (not that generous) from the Provincial Gov't.....or I couldn't AFFORD to do this.....and even at that, I have to supplement by working several contract jobs (some 50+ hrs/month), meaning that 2 to 3 days per week (not to mention half of my Saturdays), I leave home at 8 AM...and get back home by 9 PM, .....just to survive.

Yet....I LOVE it! It's the most rewarding job I've ever held in my 6 decades of life. My motto is:"The WORST day in School....is better than the BEST day in Jail!" LOL!

So...in closing.....let's try to avoid the all too common stereotypes.....the blanket condemnations.....the pre-judgements.....that we often all indulge in, when it comes to any 'public servants', okay?

 pilgrim_sojourner
Joined: 4/9/2007
Msg: 15 (view)
 
Truth in drinking
Posted: 12/25/2007 8:54:54 PM
I agree that 'social drinking' is a nebulous concept. Few alcoholics I've known consider themselves as more than 'social drinkers'.

Hence, I've always been reluctant to stigmatize myself that way...but sometimes, as on this site...one isn't given any alternative...without being deceptive. (ie: saying one doesn't drink...when one drinks very occasionally)

Sort of like the guys in my previous occupation when they asked me if I was going to the 'legion' after work for 'a' drink. I'd come right out and ask them to specify....that they DIDN'T mean 'a' drink...but it meant steady drinking until they got kicked out at 1 Am....and they agreed. So....once in a while...I'd go...and drink tomato juice....or coffee...or sometimes ONE cider or beer....then leave. I was 'social'....but personally...drunk people first amuse....then ultimately bore me.

Perhaps we need a category between teetotaler and soclal....one that implies that one will drink a couple of bottles of rum (or whatever) a year...and maybe a dozen or so beer in the same year. I STILL have 4 beer left in my fridge....and I think it was LAST Christmas that I bought the sixpack. Course....I HAVE had maybe 3 or 4 beers (total) when out as well....so.....does that make me a 'social' drinker....or a 'heavy' drinker????
 pilgrim_sojourner
Joined: 4/9/2007
Msg: 148 (view)
 
Women don't really want friends.
Posted: 12/25/2007 8:43:39 PM

"That to me sounds like you just want to string someone along as a fill in until you find something you think is better,...."


I suspect that this is a personal interpretation of what she said....or meant....not necessarily what she was actually saying.

It would make perfect sense to me (as a guy...albeit somewhat older)....to start slow....see whether even a friendship can develop.....and whether or not there is any 'spark' of attraction that could be nurtured and grow......and IF it did....then great. If NOT....then perhaps a friendship would be the '2nd' prize.

The comment about whether or not he/she had different expectations....or different (from their OWN perspective) views of how the relationship is progressing....is unavoidable....no matter what the venue...or how one meets....or what format or protocol one chooses to use to pursue the goal. As the old saying goes...."The one who cares the least holds the power in any relationship".

My wife and I knew each other from high school....and always got along famously...although platonically. We married others....even double-dated with both couples....and years later (some 18) after our individual marriages collapsed...we 'hooked up'. It was great for some 22 years...until baggage from her childhood jumped up and came between us.....and she left.

It's been 2 years.

Am I bitter? No...but I mourn the loss of BOTH my wife and lover, AND my best friend.

Would I recommend anyone wait and be friends for 18 years first? No...but it stands to reason that a relationship has a better chance of surviving the more points of convergence two people have. IF all you've got is chemistry....and hot times in bed....good luck! (You've GOT to figure out what to do the other 23 1/2 hrs a day, right? LOL!)

Good luck.
 pilgrim_sojourner
Joined: 4/9/2007
Msg: 22 (view)
 
Guys: What do You Think of your POF Bringing Along a Friend for a First Meeting
Posted: 6/2/2007 1:16:34 PM

Quote:"P.S. I hope he is reading this. "

What in the world makes you think a 'neanderthal' like this can READ???? LOL!

Frankly...I'm a 'guy'...and I'm leery about meeting someone 'one-on-one'....probably for different reasons. A reasonable compromise would be for both to sign up to an event...and that way you're meeting in a group setting.
 pilgrim_sojourner
Joined: 4/9/2007
Msg: 197 (view)
 
Biblical Polygyny
Posted: 5/23/2007 11:32:32 PM

Quote:"I surely wouldn't want "Hail Zeus" in the greek text (the greek name for Jesus) to be dizzy."

Interesting theory. Any REAL corroboration? By the way, by the description of Zeus' sexual peccadiloes as described below....seems that Zeus might more likely be 'your' 'god', given his penchant for 'dipping his wick', so to speak, in many different 'pots', not to mention his amorous relationship with his 'sister'....as in 'sister-wife'? Sound familiar?


Quote:"Encyclopediam Infoplease:
Zeus
Zeus (zOOs) [key], in Greek religion and mythology, son and successor of Kronos as supreme god. His mother, Rhea, immediately after his birth concealed him from Kronos, who, because he was fated to be overthrown by one of his children, ate all his offspring. Rhea gave him a stone wrapped in swaddling clothes which he devoured immediately, not suspecting that the infant Zeus still lived. Later, Zeus tricked Kronos into disgorging his brothers and sisters and led them in a successful revolt against their father (see Titan). When lots were cast to divide the universe, the underworld went to Hades, the sea to Poseidon, and the heavens and earth to Zeus. Zeus was an amorous god. His first mate was probably Dione, but his official consort was his sister, Hera, who bore him Ares and Hebe. Zeus also loved Themis, Eurynome, Demeter, Mnemosyne, Leto, and Maia and fathered many gods. Famous among his mortal loves were Danaë, Leda, Semele, Thetis, Io, and Europa. His sons sired from mortal wives include Hercules, Dardanus, and Amphitryon. He was also the father of Athena, who was said to have sprung from his head. Supreme among the gods, Zeus, ruling from his court on Mt. Olympus, was the symbol of power, rule, and law. As the father god and the upholder of morality, he rewarded the good and punished the evil. The root meaning of Zeus is “bright” or “sky,” and in this sense he was god of weather and fertility. Thus he was worshiped in connection with almost every aspect of life. The most famous weapon of Zeus was the thunderbolt, but, according to some legends, he also possessed the aegis. The Romans equated Zeus with their own supreme god, Jupiter (or Jove).
See A. B. Cook, Zeus (3 vol., 1914–40)."
 pilgrim_sojourner
Joined: 4/9/2007
Msg: 50 (view)
 
Ride # 9 Mission Raceway...NON RIDERS PLEASE READ!!
Posted: 5/13/2007 9:51:34 PM
I'd be interested in the Island....but I work two Saturdays a month...so it would depend.
 pilgrim_sojourner
Joined: 4/9/2007
Msg: 49 (view)
 
Ride # 9 Mission Raceway...NON RIDERS PLEASE READ!!
Posted: 5/13/2007 8:47:41 PM
Don't know if you/all went. Had a honking screw stuck in one of my truck tires...spent yesterday pumping it up in every gas station in order to work....so had to get it fixed this A.M. By the time I got to Fresgo's, no one was there.

Rode up to Mission anyway, but by the time I checked in with my Mom (lives near there) (it WAS Mother's Day, after all...LOL), it didnt' seem to be worth paying $10 to get in, so just meandered home via backroads by myself.

Oh well, maybe next time......
 
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