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 Author Thread: Would you cheat on SO for alot of money?
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 106 (view)
 
Would you cheat on SO for alot of money?
Posted: 11/23/2009 7:17:54 PM

since you are offering, i will take him. How much we talking?

hmm, there seems to be a fair amount of interest. Perhaps a no reserve auction?

Besides his, err, obvious attributes, he's great with the swiffers, makes a lovely cup of tea and mmhmm, that man does smell fine!

(and LMAO, knowing I was posting to this thread, he just happened to wander off to spray some pheromones on his chest)
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 93 (view)
 
Would you cheat on SO for alot of money?
Posted: 11/23/2009 4:40:08 PM
Nope, not me. But I am considering renting my sweetie out. Any offers?
 itsmargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 12 (view)
 
How do YOU stop loving someone
Posted: 11/23/2009 2:13:34 PM
I took the hit. Really.
And then did the work of grief. Every single last step of it. (google the stages of grief).

I full on accepted the pain and heartbreak and just wailed in the privacy of my own space.
I had a full on pity party.
I got angry and beat pillows with a giant children's plastic baseball bat, pretending it was my ex's head until I was exhausted and thought my arms would fall off. (oh man, it sounds silly but was that ever a good release! )
I yelled "how dare you do this to me you @%!!"
I said incredibly unfair things in the privacy of my own space that I would never, ever have said in public.
I scared the crap out of the dog with all of my carrying-on.
I journaled.
I got busy with friends and activities and hobbies* I had neglected.
* especially the ones the ex would not have been interested in.
I was quiet and the walking wounded for a while.
And then I slowly got me back.

Grief comes in waves. Sometimes you're ok and the next you're tearing up as a memory washes over you. Or something triggers the loss. But they die down over time and come further and further apart.

One foot in front of the other and keep breathing.
 itsmargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 11 (view)
 
Finding relief in reading the forums.
Posted: 11/23/2009 2:00:09 PM
Both compassion and relief Rocky.

On the one hand, it sure makes me grateful for my sweetie. Er, or is he one of the azzhats out here? LOL
On the other hand, I genuinely feel for people who are confused and twisting.
Although sometimes, I confess, I want to give the perpetual victim types a good shake to wake 'em up.

And who doesn't enjoy a good trainwreck ~ even tho' I know one ought not have a laugh at another's expense?!
 itsmargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 649 (view)
 
I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/23/2009 1:30:13 PM

And yet you are a single dad and the law for CS wouldn't work for you the same way. Well, they "might" if you made less money than who you were cohabitating with but even then it would be a fight and a half in the courts - because you are male. Even then, most men won't bother because they just want to get on with their life on their own...many women will pursue it because it's based on revenge or entitlement - instead of bettering themselves under their own steam.

Nah, it would work the same way for him: if he has full custody, a woman he lived with and behaved as a step parent, would be expected to pay child support, regardless of the amount of income or disparity in income. The courts in this instance... are fairly blind to gender and fairly generous to how they interpret a "parental type relationship" or in loco parentis (in place of a parent).

The gender difference in this situation is more likely that many men are unwilling to pursue a child's biological mother for child support, and are even more reluctant to pursue a woman they lived with for child support.

To make sense of our bizarre sounding laws, US readers should keep in mind Canada often makes no distinction between living with and marriage and considers both to be step-parents.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 59 (view)
 
Commitment, a unique or generalized pledge?
Posted: 11/23/2009 7:24:02 AM
I don't think there is a denial rearguard. In this moment I am committed to him, and he to me. And yeah, neither of us see anything on the horizon that would alter that. Beyond being authentic with each other, what commitment is necessary?

How could we possibly be any more committed than we are now? About the only thing I see is marriage.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 14 (view)
 
If 2 people have difficult schedules, how to ask for date in different ways?
Posted: 11/23/2009 6:24:06 AM
We never worry that coffee is repetitive.

"It is now my personal mission to take you for ice cream"
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 54 (view)
 
Commitment, a unique or generalized pledge?
Posted: 11/22/2009 8:51:30 PM

This is quite an interesting statement. Indeed I can appreciate what it means, but I am taken aback by the basis of the thought. How is monogamy separable from commitment? How is commitment separable from monogamy? They are not the same thing, I agree, but are they two things that are not joined, intertwined?

I suppose most people don't pull them apart and separate them, but I do see them as two distinct steps. Or, now I do, whereas before I had them entwined.

The question, I suppose, would be commitment to what?

Exclusivity is a smaller commitment, simply that one is not going to date anyone else. But it doesn't follow that one really knows (as much as one is able to know) if you're right for each other in the long term. It is a commitment limited to the agreement that you are not going to date anyone else.

I declined to be exclusive when I met my sweetie... I didn't want the trappings of commitment in the guise of A Relationship to push us or pull us in any direction. I explained my reasoning, the argument being that not only did I have a demonstrably suspect picker but that in the past I had lept too quickly into committed relationships and how I felt they then kinda took on a life of their own with the relationship taking precedence over relating.

I'm thankful, even though he would have preferred an exclusive relationship right from the get-go, he saw my sincere intent to allow things to develop, or not, between us on their own. I wanted to just be together because we enjoyed being together and not worry about what it was, or what it meant or where it might go.

Eventually, I'm not sure when, but several months later, he enquired if we were exclusive. And some months after that, he asked if we were committed to exploring long term, permanent relationship. What should I tell him? *wink*

We now live together because we enjoy each other immensely and want to fully share our lives. The only commitment we've really given each other is to be authentic. I can't imagine my life without him in it. But I really feel no urgent need to commit to being with him infinity plus one. It seems superfluous. Yet never have I been as committed as I am now.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 50 (view)
 
Sex is sex and we no longer need to give or receive affection? What has happened to our age group?
Posted: 11/22/2009 7:50:27 PM
I guess I'm kind of operating in reverse. I used to have a wide personal space but as I got older and more comfortable in my own skin I became freer with affection and touching. Can't imagine life without it.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 27 (view)
 
ok
Posted: 11/22/2009 1:04:16 PM

and wether i was controling the situation or not he would have probably did what he did any way!

Here you go again... trying to blame him and justify your own bad behaviour.
You don't know what he would or would not have done, so don't siddle out of your bit by speculating on "probably".

Focus on your issues of control, punishment and manipulation. Truly.

This did not go the way you wanted it to, it did not grow into the love and marriage you hoped for.
Look to where you can improve, because you have some pretty glaring issues showing up here, and forget about his part in it. That's for him to look at. Really. No kidding.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 22 (view)
 
ok
Posted: 11/22/2009 12:51:47 PM

im not telling the whole story about what he has done, that is where i have gone wrong. i guess if you cant tell the whole story then you shouldnt tell it at all

I'm sure you're not telling the whole story, but the story doesn't really matter. "Something happened" and your reaction was to try to control and manipulate him. << That's what you need to focus on I think.

Your focus seems to be on trying to blame him and justify your own poor behaviour.

Things weren't good. Why would you not react by either breaking up with him or honestly trying to resolve the problem?
Regardless of what he did or didn't do, regardless of whether it was a horrid thing, or not... What you DID do was to attempt to control, punish and manipulate him.

I wonder if you get that?

Edit to add:

ya,,men got lots of exuses for cheating.

When someone tells you to go away and they don't want to see you again... it is not cheating.
Clearly, the OP didn't mean this, she seems to have just meant to yank his chain until he got back in line. And clearly, the man in question has some issues or he wouldn't have chosen to reopen things with his convenient ex. But it was not cheating. And the OP seems rather outraged that her plan to yank him back in line simply propelled him in a different direction.

A messed up situation? Yes. Cheating? No.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 14 (view)
 
PLEASE HELP!!!!
Posted: 11/22/2009 12:39:12 PM
I'm sorry but I can't stand hearing about people being so cruel and manipulative to others.

I realize we're only getting your side of the story, but based on that, he has done nothing to deserve the misery you have intentionally inflicted on him. His fault is in being needy enough to put up with the games you inflicted and gave away his dignity in his efforts to try to resolve things with you.

Take a good, hard look at yourself and who you are being. That you would post this suggests you have absolutely no awareness of how badly you are treating him.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 604 (view)
 
Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/21/2009 6:02:02 PM

A face/body pic would help the argument.

I don't want to enter into the Alpha debate (I think all of you are applying it incorrectly) and I sure would like to think I am smart enough to sidestep the whole verity/belle road show, however, as this keeps coming up I will say...
I have met verity IRL and there is no doubt he is an attractive man.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 534 (view)
 
I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/21/2009 11:20:59 AM
I'm conscious here that some things are a paradox, so it is hard to be concrete about them.

I actually agreed with the sentiment in this post:


And just so that you know......there is no better feeling when a mate emotionally validates you......you should try it sometime - its called love, and its something I aspire to and definitely NEED from a female. My life isn't complete without it, and I cant get it from anywhere else..........

Were I to fast-forward my life to its' end and look back on my life to see what it was that caused me to have 'no regrets', one of the most critical elements would be to have shared a great love with a special someone.

Not just anyone, not just someone... what makes it a great love is who he is and what we share.

If I didn't experience that in my life I would regret it. It would be a disappointment and it might even, depending on the circumstances, be something I held as a personal failure on my part. I'm ok with that and I'm quite certain my life would also have joy, success and contentment in many, many other areas.

I realize that not everyone feels that way.




There's nothing wrong with realizing you need a certain person in your life that's become part of it - but it's just odd to say you need someone in your life when you're single...sounds like you'd be ok with whoever shows up.

I doubt the quoted poster meant "anyone will do" any more than I meant I'd be ok with "whoever showed up".
I can see why the declaration stops you; you're thinking of, I suppose, how some people are inclined to try to love the one who shows up to love them.

I would argue that the fact one has identified a yearning or a need for a great love could very well mean one wouldn't accept a poor substitute. This isn't about filling an order, and you'll take that bit of recreation or this bit of poor lovin' substitute until the real deal comes along. Or even that you'd take that bit of poor lovin' and try to convince yourself it's enough because it's there. You know it's not enough because you have realized what you need in your life.

There's a risk in declaring yourself as someone who wants/needs love in your life. It's exposure. It's vulnerable.

The man who develops into the man you need in your life, first shows up as just a man on your doorstep that you invited in.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 529 (view)
 
I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/21/2009 10:09:53 AM

A mate is essential in a relationship to validate your emotions as it pertains to them. Generally tho, it's not missing when you're not in a relationship, as there's no one there witholding emotion that doesn't exist. The only thing you could miss is what a past person in particular provided while you were involved.

With respect WIP, I don't think you have experienced it, so I don't think you know what you have missed. You seem to be on the outer edges of independent and, I suspect, thus actively resist validation.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 10 (view)
 
Being committed to the relationship
Posted: 11/21/2009 9:53:17 AM
I suspect she is lying to herself. When she told you her 'reasons' they were the lies she herself believes. She hid from herself behind the smokescreen of a power struggle between you.
^^ At least, that is what occurs to me. In my experience, it was never the lies people told me that caused the most trouble, no it was always the lies they told themselves and believed.

You thought what she was saying was her truth, and that there might be a way to work through things if one could only find it and was willing to try hard enough or long enough. So you put your shoulder to the grindstone and began to work on the relationship.

It sucks to be where you are, but thankfully you are off of that hamster wheel of being the only one in a relationship making a serious effort to make it work. Don't invest another :30 seconds of your life in this one.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 100 (view)
 
Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/21/2009 7:00:45 AM
Self esteem is a relatively new concept; perhaps in the last 50 years or so ago.

If you look at the pressures men face I think it would be fairly obvious to most that there are conflicting messages in how one should 'measure up' to be a 'real man'.

Men have a significantly higher rates of suicide than women do; I'd say they are facing some stress. One of the biggest causes of stress is the gap between what you (and others) expect of yourself and the reality - and the hopelessness of seeing no viable way out of it.

Sprinkle on top of this society's messages about men, which are in a high proportion, negative, critical and contemptuous. AND add to that, the way women speak of men, again very high in criticism and contempt. Mix in that, society is fairly accepting of women's negative speak regarding men. What's created is a cesspool where it is hard to find acceptance of who you are as a human being.

Now, also consider that there is a massive "don't talk" rule. If a man doesn't like what he sees, he is told to shuddupabout it. He is a whiner or bitter.

Contempt is a killer.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 516 (view)
 
I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/21/2009 6:36:57 AM
My father was a self-made man. Know what he said? Never has a 'self made' man had more help from more people than I.
Good heavens, even an author (and is there any more of a solitary accomplishment than that?) thanks the people who made their efforts possible.

I'm not so arrogant or blind to assume I have done anything on my own.

~~

It occurred to me this morning as I caught up in this thread, that there might be another dynamic present when women put "I'm independent" or "I don't need a man" on their profiles. The act of joining a dating site and writing a profile makes some feel very vulnerable. They are, by their actions, making a very public statement that they do have a lack they would like to fill.

For some, this vulnerability is very threatening of their self-concept, for others it is just dayum uncomfortable. So they write this stuff, make these declarations, to counter the feeling of vulnerability. Kind of like whistling in the dark.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 537 (view)
 
Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/20/2009 1:29:00 PM

I guess that makes me...what? A Balpha female?

A Raftafarian?

A deserted island with 200 men and women... would they still be debating the quality of life and who pays?
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 52 (view)
 
Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/20/2009 12:54:54 PM

I agree that there are many poor images of men on TV: guys that not in a million years I would put up with THAT shyte (Raymond, Jim Belushi, the Office guy). Men are OFTEN portayed--as a joke--to be lazy (always taking the easy way out, and PROUD of it) and stupid. by the way, though, MEN are the driving forces behind each of those TV shows--now women. And on these types of shows, women are put into stereotypical roles as well (homemakers who use sex to get what they want from those bumbling fools they married). One that REALLY drives me bonkers is Glade commercial, where the guy is so stupid he can't get the Glade to come on, goes through various histrionics to try to get it to work, then wifey pompously comes by and presses the button for the dumb oaf.

But then, I think again: The chief of police is a man, the president of the company is a man, pretty much every major authority figure is a man. Unless it is the focus of the TV show, where they are showing "see, women can do this, too!" (and almost every time there's a man in the background, letting the little lady have her head, which is never quite up to standards, but, by gum, she gets the job done. Boy, is she ever an amazing little woman).

And still yet, who is Glade and every other cleaning tool/product marketed to? WOMEN. We're STILL (as far as advertisers are concerned) at home, keeping the house clean until the man comes home to dinner on the table--even if it's a store bought but every bit as good as homemade dinner!

You know what? Come to think of it? Maybe, just maybe, we shouldn't look to TV for our inspirations in life.

Actually, what caused the change in advertising and sitcoms was the Woman's Liberation Movement.

Speaking specifically of advertising... a :30 second (and now ever more commonly :15 second) commercial must do this job: Introduce a problem, show how the product can solve the problem, possibly demonstrate how it works or give some information about it and finish with a beauty shot for package ID so people will recognize it in the store. Within that :30 seconds it must be sufficiently entertaining that people won't overly mind their lives being interrupted by the commercial, and hopefully engaging and memorable enough that they will remember the product and the message. << THAT is a LOT to do in :30 seconds.

The common dramatic (or comedic) technique is for someone to have a problem and someone else to know or provide the solution to the problem via the product. Quite simple, right?

With the rise of woman's lib it was no longer possible to show women as homemakers because it was interpreted as saying she was "just a homemaker". As women controlled (and still do) the purchasing of 80% of a household's budget, no company could afford to tick her off. Still can't; she has tremendous power.

But that left them with a serious problem: Household cleanser, or an air freshener like Glade, is shown in the home where it will be used. So how do you demonstrate the problem if you can no longer have women in the ads as a homemaker? How they chose to solve the problem was introducing men (and less often, children) as having the problem, and women solving it with the product. This was especially believable in the 70's and 80's when men hadn't, yet, taken on much of traditionally 'women's work' in the home.

The change was accepted - even cheered in many circles - as progress for women. It worked, largely because men had a sense of humour about these things and, if they didn't, were told to suck it up and quit being a whiner/pansy/whatever. BTW, many of the most offensive (for how they portray men) ads are regaled by some people as progressive beacons in how advertising portrays women.

Some 40 years later the same formula is being used. In large part because the criticism of showing women to be "more than a housewife" is still very much front and centre in our concerns. And the concern of how men are portrayed in the same ads is barely registering on the radar screen.

You're right, we ought not look to advertising for inspiration. It does not lead nor set trends, it simply mirrors back the truths it finds in society already. Some of those truths are not pretty, even if they wear pick lipstick.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 46 (view)
 
Men and self esteem
Posted: 11/20/2009 12:19:59 PM
Although directed to girls and women, arguably the Dove campaign for real beauty is working to change perceptions of both men and women.

There's little directed towards men and part of that is it remains socially unacceptable for men to have problems. If it is even allowed that men have esteem problems the reaction is usually "suck it up you lil whiner". I suspect if it became no longer acceptable to portray men as bumbling fools, or if we altered how we related to the theory of 'men are violent' or the other pervasive messages we would see a difference for and in men.

I've seen little girls in T-shirts that say "Girls Rule and Boys Drool". I know it is supposed to be funny and is intended as some girl power message, but really. One does not build up self esteem by putting down another. Never have, never will.

I do wonder at what it must be like for a boy to grow up with so much venom directed at his gender. It is an onslaught of a different sort than the beauty trap for women, but it is damaging.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 310 (view)
 
Long vs short hair
Posted: 11/20/2009 7:51:26 AM
Hey. I notice this thread got a hair cut. Why do I suddenly feel like bursting into song?
"Gonna wash that man right outta this thread"

My track record would indicate I prefer short hair on men, but hair style is insignificant (for me) in attraction.
I've recently had my first ever shaved bald man and he's a keeper.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 13 (view)
 
Was there ONE thing that made you want to meet?
Posted: 11/19/2009 10:05:43 PM
If I had to pick only ONE reason it would be: he was such a smart azz I HAD to meet him.

But really, it was more than that. I wanted to meet his mind, I wanted to see the glint in his eye that I knew just HAD to be there cuz I could hear it in his voice. I wanted to find out if he really did smile with his eyes (he does). I wanted to see if the rollicking conversations we had over the phone would continue to play out in real life. I wanted to find out if he was good looking or if I'd take one look at him and barf on his shoes. I wanted to see his schtick in action. I wanted to meet the man behind that amazing profile.

No, it was none of those things and all of those things... the bottom line was: I HAD to satisfy my curiosity.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 25 (view)
 
Commitment, a unique or generalized pledge?
Posted: 11/19/2009 2:43:51 PM
My view on commitment is evolving. It's mostly rune's fault.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 92 (view)
 
He's banged his open-relationship roomie....
Posted: 11/19/2009 2:29:49 PM

Honestly, I'm having a really hard time getting over this man. I miss him. We still text, and have tried going out together, but I'm also still incredibly bothered by his roommate, and I most certainly have been taking my frustrations out on him when we're together. Last time we hung out, I freaked out and said some very cruel things to him. I don't like who this situation is making me. It's this vicious circle, and I know it's totally unhealthy for me. I know I need to either accept the situation how it is, or move on. Why am I having such a hard time moving on? Gah. Seriously, I've never really had such crazy attachment issues before.

Interesting that you have never had attachment issues like this before... that suggests something to look at.

I assume you have never been in a triangle before? Never had a sense of wanting to 'win' before? Never had a sense of 'loss' or 'losing' before? As much as you say otherwise, because rationally you know better, I suspect you *might* be feeling emotionally in competition with, what are we calling her? Trash Girl? And wanting him to "pick me, pick me".

^^ That is, of course all just a guess. But I'd bet there is something there, something being displaced if you are taking your frustrations out on him.

You don't like who this situation is making you. Hmm, I would argue that it is inside of you and the current dynamic is causing it/your buttons to push. But the buttons gotta be there first, right? What are you being so reactive to, really? << take a look inside and see what you see.

Accepting an unacceptable situation doesn't sound at all healthy or authentic to me. It sounds like trying to pretzel yourself into something you are not.

Sometimes we have to accept 'this is unacceptable' and walk away with regret. Other times we have to put on our problem solving hat. I'm not getting that you are problem solving. It sounds, to my screen anyway, like you are caught in turmoil and are reacting and churning. (I get one of those cartoon images of you trapped in a washing machine going around and around, with occasional glimpses through the glass).

My guess, and it is one of those wild-azz speculative guesses with no substance to go on, that you have something in you that is feeding on this and it is something big enough that you don't want to admit it to yourself. As long as you are churning you don't have to stop and look at it. Otherwise, why would you put yourself through this? One wouldn't, would they, if there wasn't something there.

And WTF is this guy who didn't want to lose you over this, doing about it? Where is his problem solving hat?
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 9 (view)
 
Love and being in love
Posted: 11/19/2009 12:13:21 PM

So first, what do you think is the difference between loving that special man/woman in your life and "being in love" with that person, and can you love a man/woman with "all your heart" but not be in love with them?

Personally, I can't love a man "with all my heart" and not be in love with him. I think love is co-created on a daily basis, much like how we need food to nourish us, love needs to be fed regularly or it begins to die or morph. And I mean, I am responsible for creating my love for him each day, not the other way around, which I suspect is how some? most? people hold it.

I "suspect" what people mean when they say this is the love they have has died down but they still regard you with love as a fine person... just not one they want to be with. I suspect some people hold love as "how you make me feel". I think that is a very distorted and delusional way to live love.

Second, how would you feel if this was said to you by the man/woman you are in love with?

Like crap.

Third, when she told me this wasn't the "first" time she felt this way it made me feel as if her love or being in love was on a light switch or something. I guess she would be in love with me when things were good, but then not be in love with me when she was mad at me, but back in love with me when she got over being mad.....a light switch for being in love that she could turn on and off.......what do you think of that and how would it make you feel?

Love is different than temporary annoyances. I can be mad at something my love has done or not done and still be in love with him. If he continuously did/did not do/be stuff, my regard for him would alter over time. This, quite frankly falls into that area of co-creating love and feel-goods, and I don't quite have a handle on that yet. I recognize that I can't be a sh!t forever without a consequence, and the consequence is usually they will no longer love me, or choose not to be with me even if they still love me. On the other hand, if their love for me is dependent on what I did last, then it isn't love as far as I can see.


A fourth, what do you think and how do you feel when someone tells you they love you with "all their heart" but want to keep their options open and stay with the online dating services (and go on dates with other men/women)?

What would I think? "Delusional azzhole"
How would I feel? Betrayed, foolish, angry, crappy, disappointed. All manner of feelings, none of the 'feel-good' variety.
What would I do? Say good-bye.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 24 (view)
 
why do people feel like they need someone in their life .
Posted: 11/19/2009 11:40:21 AM
Some people exist better alone other people are more attuned to living their lives as a couple.
Just as some people are more introverted and others extraverted, I have a friend who says there is a line on how much of a 'relational being' people are.

Interdependence requires that people be balanced between being independent and ALSO willing to be dependent on each other. That's healthy, not needy.

Unhealthy = Independent
Healthy = Inter-dependence
Unhealthy = Dependent

Some people have a strong need to be with someone out of an 'in order to' get or be something they are afraid they couldn't be if alone. Generally, they are what we call needy.

Some people are so driven by the need to be independent that they are closed off and won't/can't share their lives out of the fear of losing their autonomy. In present times, this rigidly independent stance is more socially acceptable, but it is as unhealthy as the needy people they (for the most part) distain.

^^ Either stance is unhealthy as both are born from a mirror image response to fear.

Some people mistake the desire to be in relationship as "needy and desperate". Sometimes it is. But it seems to me, society is overly focused on worshipping at the altar of independence these days; and it doesn't make for a particularly healthy society.

Some argue the sunset is just as beautiful if you are alone as when you are with someone you love.
I don't know about that.
Seems to me that my first instinct is to turn to the person beside me and say "oh gosh, look at that, isn't it breath-taking?!!!"
Great if it is a friend, even better if it is my sweetie. Sharing any experience with him makes it richer than when I was alone.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 10 (view)
 
Wants to know about past realationship
Posted: 11/18/2009 9:40:27 PM
The only way he knew about your last boyfriend was that you already told him stuff about him. Likely something you said has raised some questions in his mind that he wants to resolve.

Given you raised the subject, it seems to me you need to complete the conversation.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 564 (view)
 
Do women prefer men with long hair or short?
Posted: 11/18/2009 2:00:40 PM
^^ No, no... you're forgetting Fabio. But the gay bit is only a rumour.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 34 (view)
 
I am breaking up with BF Today! Had ENOUGH
Posted: 11/18/2009 10:56:21 AM
Are you going to chase him all week in order to set a time to get together to break up with him?
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 450 (view)
 
I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/18/2009 10:36:09 AM

I'm trying to understand this because it's so painfully obvious that men ans women communicate differently, and think differently because of different socialization.

Arguably, different brain wiring as well.

Try linguist Deborah Tannen's "You Just Don't Understand; Men and Women in Conversation" or "Talking 9 to 5" for a scholarly and highly readable explanation of the differences in the way men and women communicate.

Here's a link to her bio:
https://www9.georgetown.edu/faculty/tannend/bio.html
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 17 (view)
 
Current girlfriend keep insisting on meeting my ex...Drama Drama Drama!!!
Posted: 11/17/2009 12:43:28 PM
I see no positive outcome in this. I see no positive reason for it.

What is your gf's thinking - she wants to stir up stuff in order to satisfy her curiosity? Or does she have different reasons?

And yep, have to agree with the ever wise Igor... just because you met her ex does not mean she has to meet your ex.
Different circumstances.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 86 (view)
 
Prove Me Wrong, PLEASE
Posted: 11/16/2009 8:18:35 PM

so hard for me to read my own emotions.

And here is the cage.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 30 (view)
 
I can't take this anymore!
Posted: 11/16/2009 5:27:59 PM
The money could be put into escrow, but I suspect talking about/dealing with that sort of stuff is what has cranked up your legal bills.

The offers that have been refused will be useful in the future to prove his unwillingness. You can go to court to seek permission to sell the house, but it is likely your lawyer has gone over that with you.

It sounds to me that you are in the process of getting your ducks in a row to go to court. Be patient.
It doesn't matter what he says... he's just trying to yank your chain, and it is working. (he knos whee all of your buttons are, so don't present them to him).

Limit your contact with him and don't let him bug you. It will work out in the end, and you have a choice in whether you get through this period stressed out or biding your time. I'd pick the serene route myself.

BTW, limit the amount of time you spend speaking to lawyers about 'the story' by putting things as briefly and clearly in writing to them... including your questions. And, before you ask a question, look it up on the internet. It can alter the type of question you would ask and save you thousands of dollars. Remember, lawyers deal in billing increments... 10 minutes is expensive.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 28 (view)
 
I can't take this anymore!
Posted: 11/16/2009 4:50:27 PM
Google divorce in Ontario so you will understand the process.
Visit a Family Court and see the FLIC - Family Law Information Clinic - or check it out at this link: http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/family/infoctr.asp

If this is true:



I do not qualify for legal aid as the house is under my name, I solely hold the mortgage and the deed to the property which I found out after we seperated.

Then this is not true:



I did put the house up for sale at his request that it was time to sell it I have been trying to sell it for a year and he has always stopped me by saying he would not agree or would want me to list it at a very high price to which agents highly disagreed to,I finally listed it had 3 offers as I lowballed the house and he said he would not sign the sale agreement so I took it off the market.


He does NOT need to sign a sale agreement if YOU own the house.
^^ He could put up a fuss about it as I am sure he will want to claim half of it as the matrimonial home (and also get half of the debt associated with it) but in order to do this, he would have to apply to the courts. That takes time... and in the meanwhile, the house is sold. edit to add: sounds like he was objecting to the low price on the house.

It is very NORMAL to send a draft separation agreement. It is the first step to reaching agreement. If he isn't responding to that, there are legal steps that may be taken... but he has to not respond to that separation agreement for a while (30 or 60 days, I forget which) before you can take the next step.

Get informed. There is a TON of information on the internet that will help you.

Edit to add: $8,000 does sound like a lot for a separation agreement; based on $400/hr it's roughly 20 hours. On the other hand, the OP doesn't sound very well informed about the process and it could well be that this was the amount of the retainer - and there might well be funds sitting in the trust account.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 41 (view)
 
Are all expectations relationship killers?
Posted: 11/15/2009 6:10:35 PM

Peace and harmony ARE important to me in any relationship, but it can't be all up to one person to make it happen.

Actually, it only takes one. One can have peace and harmony in the midst of turbulence.

I actually think you are standing in your own way here. People have this very strange habit: their behaviours look like they are perfectly planned and designed to get the exact opposite of what they want.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 65 (view)
 
independent women fall the hardest
Posted: 11/15/2009 6:29:08 AM
Very much enjoy yours too AA *grins*

I guess you could say that there are so many different roads that lead to independence some aren't as joyful as others...The independence you speak of is the ultimate definition of independence, where you become aware of your own barriers and learn to overcome them evolving in the process…..

Very true. First step independence, second step integration. With everything there is both a strength and a limitation. I would argue we are not truly independent (however much we might like to think of ourselves that way) unless and until we recognize the barriers that limit us.

If we have to hold onto independence for our survival are we truly independent? If what we call independence doesn't allow us to reveal who we really are to another person or see the person in front of us for who they actually are, which is my interpretation of the OP, wouldn't that make us chained (or dependent) to our view of ourselves and the world? A delusion of our own construction.


But what about the other type of independent woman, you know the one that became a product of society not out of her own free will, but the one that never chose that path but was forced to grow up before her time, the street smart one, the tough one, the one that had too much pride to accept help because she wasn't accustomed to receiving…I think she would be the one that would bring the work-face home, because unlike the other type of woman that chose her independence and sees it as an accomplishment , she doesn’t see it the same way, she sees it as part of her makeup.

I'm conscious that I'm writing this whilst sitting at my kitchen table in Toronto drinking coffee. I've faced some challenges in life, but they can't compare to the magnitude of some of the life and death or even just plain awful circumstances other people have faced in their life. So allow me to preface this by saying: I don't know sh!t from hardship.

Which isn't going to stop me from commenting *grins*. Arguably, we all are a product of the societies we were born into. Just some of us were born into an easier society and some were born into a world that has been torn apart by war for decades before they were ever conceived. It's the LSC factor (Lucky Sperm Club). How do we get through it? In the easier said than done category: By not being a victim of the circumstances of our lives, by choosing to rise to the challenges the circumstances of our lives presents.

As soon as one begins to argue for the limitation in their life, they have CHOSEN to be a victim of their circumstances.

Humans are funny creatures, it doesn't really matter whether we have come from hardship or not, we are each the centre of our own universe. The attributes or coping skills we value are part of how we see our identity; they are part of our make up. So no, I don't think it much matters if the grit that created the pearl was small or large because to each person, it is THEIR grit and THEIR pearl of accomplishment.

What would be true, or so it seems to me, is that some people have more "learning opportunities" or speed bumps to get over than others. People will define challenges differently depending on their circumstances, but they will each, individually, hold it in a similar way. Of course, people who are focused on the immediate needs of survival have little resources available to ponder if their choices are the wisest? most balanced? That type of personal growth navel gazing is a luxury.

Regardless, I feel a coping strategy designed for work is designed to accomplish at work. Same with the strategies designed for surviving other circumstances. They don't work with our lovers or our children. Why would they, they weren't designed for that. What is generally valued at work often aren't the attributes that make us a loving partner. I imagine this is why many men, generally, don't much care what we do for a living; they are pretty clear that they are dating the person. Independence can create barriers to fully sharing ourselves. To love someone, or so it seems to me, means one has to willingly give up some of their independence.

I liked very much Concerto's definition of independence and interdependence. It seems to me in order to have "an internally derived sense of self-definition and self-worth." would require one to examine ones relationship to externals, including accomplishment. In other words, stop arguing for ones limitations and being a victim of the circumstances in ones life.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 59 (view)
 
why do men assume you want to talk sex ?
Posted: 11/14/2009 9:26:19 PM

My question is why are married people allowed on dating sites?

My assumption is that it would be unenforceable because they would simply lie about their marital status. Allowing them on site but designating themselves as married keeps at least some of it aboveboard.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 195 (view)
 
how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 11/14/2009 8:36:57 AM

new study by the Rockefeller Institute for Global Perpetual Dating ( $300 mil, 5 years in the making, Nobel Prize stuff, babe) sez:
10 out of 10 men find that women are more fickle than men.

Gotta link? I searched for this but couldn't find it.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 63 (view)
 
independent women fall the hardest
Posted: 11/14/2009 8:25:26 AM
It takes a lot of strength to become an independent woman, most are misunderstood by the opposite sex as being tough, strong willed and unemotional..I can only say that in most cases the opposite is true. What seems to be a tough cookie is normally a softy behind the walls she's put up, to reach to the top of the ladder she's had to put the tough mask on, she knows what she wants and not afraid to go out and get it, she doesn't fall in love so easily because the removal of the walls take time.... but if she lets you in you can bet your ass she will fall hard...

Although I agree with the sentiments you've expressed, I can't resist lifting the corner of it and peeking at what might lie underneath.

I'd argue here AA, that it actually takes strength to evolve to the next level. What you're describing as an independent woman (and I agree with your assessment) isn't really being integrated, is it? It's not interdependent... it's more closed off and protected and afraid of being vulnerable.

For example, we have myths, or so I suspect, that to get to the top of the ladder one must put on the tough mask. If I say that is true (and I personally don't think it is) why then, do some women persist in bringing their work-face into their personal lives?

One could argue that the "tough cookie but softie inside" who longs for someone to see beyond the mask she presents to the world and look beyond the barriers she has presented to truly see who she is inside... is a modern day twist on the fairy tale of waiting for my prince to arrive.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 22 (view)
 
Are all expectations relationship killers?
Posted: 11/13/2009 7:17:23 PM
Expectations makes sex feel like a chore. People begin to avoid chores.

You're locked in a power struggle and, unless you can get unhooked from it, it doesn't look like it is going anywhere but down. Frankly, it doesn't sound like you're very compatible... and it does sound like you're being demanding and he is avoiding.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 24 (view)
 
I don't care that he did, but WHY DID HE HAVE TO LIE?
Posted: 11/13/2009 4:55:46 PM

So, yea, that was a lie unless by some off chance he went from not getting on there at all to being on there several times today.

Well, it might have put POF into his head and the next day he checked it out again. That sure happens to me often enough (not about POF, heck, I'd have to get off of here first) I can go months without doing something until someone mentions it and reminds me.

Whew, I'd sure wait til you got the assumption venting toned down and then ask him about it. Ask him about it. Never, ever get your knickers in a twist until you have all the facts. Much less vexatious for the spirit.

"Hey, thought you said you weren't on here and the next day I noticed you were. What's with that?"

'course then he might freak at why you are lying to him about POF. And so on.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 41 (view)
 
Please, don't get angry. I don't like it when your angry.
Posted: 11/13/2009 11:27:13 AM

Learning is great, but there's also a feeling of "can this please stop being educational now, and just make me FEEL GOOD?"

Hahaa! There were a few years in my life where my new year's resolution was: No More Growth! Let's just have a year without any of those wonderful personal growth opportunities and kick back and have fun.

Dayum, the universe laughs in ones face.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 49 (view)
 
He's banged his open-relationship roomie....
Posted: 11/12/2009 9:13:25 PM

I think I just gotta accept the fact I'm gonna wind up a lonely old spinster :) Beats dealing with this sorta drama though.

It's understandable to have this immediate reaction when faced with one of "those" decision moments in life, but I want to point out to you that this sort of global "all or nothing" type thinking is self-perpetuated drama.

When you've gotten over the initial gasp, I would invite you to tear apart this episode in your life and look for the useful bits. There's some life lessons here (there always are when we've been at our most reactive) and you might as well mine the cloud for the silver lining.

re the "gotten out sooner" bit. Eh, I'm a proponent of letting time bring one clarity. Had you pulled the plug sooner you wouldn't have had the opportunity to visit with your reactions so vividly. And had it worked out a different way, you'd be congratulating yourself on having taken the chance to stay the course for a while. Yanno, sometimes the hindsight interpretation of whether we were courageous or a bum has more to do with where it ended up than with what we did in the middle of it.

Don't forget to be compassionate with yourself as you figure this out. It's a cool opportunity.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 21 (view)
 
independent women fall the hardest
Posted: 11/12/2009 8:53:01 PM
Reading the thoughts in the OP, I am thinking that whoever had these thoughts has independence and ego confused. Same with self confidence and arrogance.

Being aware of other people and self is not the exclusive domain of either the independent or the dependent person. Indeed, one could, or so I think, argue that co-dependent people are better at reading other people because they tend to be hyper-aware of signals. Where they muck it up is the interpretation of the signals or the response they make.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 393 (view)
 
I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/12/2009 2:54:28 PM
I think I get what you are saying Taurusmind. Since when is depending on someone a bad word?

It's the skootching over to make room for each other and sharing your lives. If one person is working hard at remaining individual and actively resisting anything that smells like dependence - as in depending on each other, giving a helping hand, accepting a helping hand - they don't need you in their life.

Love needs to be expressed, no? And if you are blocked at every turn from expressing love, what's the point?

Blocking generosity, refusing a helping hand is not sharing your life. Allowing someone to do something nice for you is giving.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 8 (view)
 
Incompatibly Compatible ever after?
Posted: 11/12/2009 12:50:50 PM
I'm fairly certain my sweetie looked at my profile and thought "Out of my league, but it's a slow day, so why not?"
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 9 (view)
 
Engagement rings for men?
Posted: 11/12/2009 5:55:34 AM

I'd rather have an engagement flat screen television, myself.

^^ Ha, my sweetie wanted my leather sofa as a "signing bonus" when he and I moved in together.

Couples have the freedom to create their own meaningful rituals; if men want a ring, I'm all for it. In my experience, most men are indifferent at best and many can't stand them so I doubt the jewelry marketers will be getting rich on this one.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 11 (view)
 
To pursue or not to pursue…
Posted: 11/12/2009 5:50:02 AM
I won't join anyone's parade.

Express interest to explore possibilities when/if she's available and move on.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 11 (view)
 
Do relationships go in a straight line anymore?
Posted: 11/11/2009 1:43:29 PM

It seems that as soon as I really start liking the guy (or fall in love), he gets scared and starts going wierd on me.

What changes in your behaviour or way of being?
 
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