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 Author Thread: Dating advice
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 20 (view)
 
Dating advice
Posted: 5/13/2013 1:08:19 AM
Get out there and keep failing! As far as I can tell, the only way to get over being socially awkward is to keep being social until you are no longer awkward.

Do you ask open ended questions that can't be answered with a yes or no?

I'm thinking my mathie/geek daughter would have found your "fox paws" hilarious - either for the connection attempt or recognizing a face-palm awkward moment. So my cheap advice is own your awkwardness (when people are ok with their awkwardness, it just becomes one of their traits - it's when they're dying of embarrassment that we don't want to watch).

oh, and "speak to express rather than impress" is probably good advice too!

Have fun with it.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 117 (view)
 
PROBLEM with stepkid
Posted: 5/13/2013 12:06:20 AM
^^ me too. Nomad, I have nothing (other than a hug) to add. But definitely follow woobie's Al-Anon advice... most excellent!
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 17 (view)
 
I'm a damn mess-sucked into the drama, need help out. (Long)
Posted: 5/12/2013 11:56:49 PM
Alternatively, you could choose to continue a relationship with him - but if so, choose to be in relationship WITH HIM. He has no time, his life will likely always be scattered over time/memory/organization, his school work takes more time, his life takes more time and effort to organize. That's the nature of ADHD and is not something he is doing TO YOU. (and medication is not appropriate for everyone with ADHD, nor is it a "magic fix" - the issues remain, they are subdued/easier to reach sometimes that's enough to put up with the side-effects, sometimes not}. Anxiety and stress tend to make it MUCH harder for an ADHD person to attend/manage their schedule - so your chasing after him about how you want him to be and making him wrong about the effects of a disability is not going to help matters and very likely will only make them worse.

The path you are on will not work out; he cannot be anyone other than who he is no matter how much you and he might wish it. It is not fair to say "I want you, but a different you". If you want a different him, be kind and cut him loose.

It might be your fights are all about time - you either incorrectly attribute it to not respecting you or can't live with the effects of someone who has difficulty managing time. Time is managed by the same part of the brain that is effected by ADHD. He will ALWAYS have issues with time - can you back off and live with it, or not?


He doesn't want you to see his face when you're talking about the feelings and issues in your relationship ? Well it brings only one word to mind. Dishonesty.

Could be attention related. Could be the expression on your face is painful to see while also hearing painful words and it's an attempt to reduce the stimulation. Lots of possibilities.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 14 (view)
 
I'm a damn mess-sucked into the drama, need help out. (Long)
Posted: 5/12/2013 11:26:01 PM

This is the first time anything like this has happened. Everyone else I've dated since my divorce has been a calm, dependable, non dramatic dating life. And they all bored me. I do have to look myself in the eyes and say that THIS one is the one I fell for. Not the nice, sappy, eager to please ones. While I don't think I would feed the drama in any other situation-it is true in this case.

How long have you been divorced? While a relief this isn't habitual, I would seriously consider the possibility that something is going on such that you are creating this situation to fulfill a need. Fabulous opportunity for growth, clarity perhaps even figuring out what you want from life and love. The timing is excellent to speak with a therapist - go dig out the pony from the pile of poo.

I don't see it as a game-I tell him to leave me alone-he doesn't. He wants to know the truth about my dating, he pries and pushes for details. So to me-the only 'game' is that when he wants me back I can't stay away. I think to me, the fact that he absolutely refuses to let me go is romantic-but at the same time I resent it because he is not respecting my wishes.

If you really wanted him to leave you alone, you would ensure that he does. "The game" you've created has some specific dance steps in it - you tell him to let you go, he ignores you (and why shouldn't he? you don't speak your truth)and thus he supplies the proof you are "something" (desirable? worthy? important? sexy? valued?). It is most definitely a game.

Your truth might be you actually want to keep this going - but you don't want to be seen as choosing this situation for yourself - so it is absolutely necessary it stay his fault. That's the balance point you've established in this relationship. The moment you fully accept your responsibility is the time you will either say it is over in a way he will get - or it will be over regardless of whether he "gets it" or not. As soon as it is actually something you don't want, you'll stop. As long as you need to keep it going but be able to lie to yourself about it - you'll keep this mess going and be helpless in the middle of it.

You have to appreciate how great being confused about something is - as long as you can keep yourself confused and churning about something - you've let yourself off the hook for actually living your life the way you choose to.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 7 (view)
 
I'm a damn mess-sucked into the drama, need help out. (Long)
Posted: 5/12/2013 10:51:48 PM
It seems you're not very good at taking responsibility. YOU need this dysfunctional dynamic - you're definitely getting a lot of juice out of it. It is not "your heart" that has you in this. It's not his fear of abandonment. All the excuses you've mentioned are window dressing for your helpless angst. I wonder why you insist on viewing yourself as a helpless victim? And also, why are you not absolutely horrified at the games you are inflicting on another human being?
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 56 (view)
 
Can women inheriting wealth thru divorce or death be willing to share this wealth with NEW boyfriend
Posted: 8/27/2012 11:38:52 PM
Two people live in one house - they break up - one of them HAS to move. I guess I'm confused as to why this would be an issue.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 46 (view)
 
Empty Nester - Nakedness and other perks!
Posted: 8/25/2012 9:56:15 PM
I'll be an empty nester in **gosh** ONE week.

I didn't imagine I would have a problem with this transition but as it gets closer, I realize I was lying to myself. I'm going to miss her like crazy. My sweeties is just going to have to contain his glee until I adjust **grins**
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 13 (view)
 
Compromising in a relationship-does it really exsist?
Posted: 8/25/2012 6:23:11 PM
I don't like compromise, at least, not how it is usually practiced. All too often, compromise means someone has to give up something on behalf of the other getting what they need, or neither end up with with what they wanted. I much prefer collaboration - where both work together to give each other what they need or mutually decide what's best to do in the situation.

Sometimes, it just isn't possible to find a workable solution to give both people what they want. It isn't possible, for example, for him to go to lunch with her family and also run errands for his mother on the same afternoon. In cases like this a collaborating couple will work out what's the best thing to do, considering the needs of all people involved and knowing not everyone will get their needs met. Sometimes ya just gotta take one for the team.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 20 (view)
 
To love more or be the one who loves less?
Posted: 8/19/2012 9:05:43 PM
When I was much younger I would have said I wanted my partner to love me more because I was afraid of the hurt if I loved and it ended. (similar thinking would lead someone to break up first so they don't have to feel the pain of being the dumpee). It's all about attempting to control life and reduce risk.

Having survived my worst fears I've emerged free to love wholeheartedly and no longer worry about outcomes, control or security. I love, he loves, we love. Some days he's p!ssed with me (or me with him) and even then I cannot tell who loves each other more. I trust our love... I trust we will disappoint each other at times (because to be human is to disappoint yourself and others at times). I trust we will work out whatever needs to be worked out, in whatever means necessary.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 197 (view)
 
The Ripple Effect
Posted: 8/19/2012 3:25:13 AM
I don't start my day with the forums anymore; I guess my lil routine didn't survive the "Forum Button Debacle" when conversations dried up and so many regulars wandered away. I do pop in from time to time to see what's being discussed and when I come back I almost inevitably come back to read this thread. All of it - and it still affects me each and every time. It's funny how so many of the people and their thoughts still ripple through my life.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 42 (view)
 
Anyone else growing old alone?
Posted: 8/18/2012 11:03:35 PM
I used to be overly independent. Someone even said much the same thing to me although I couldn't hear it in the way they intended it at that time. I guess I was a little too loudly on the "I don't need anyone" thing. **smiles**

Somewhere, over time, a shift happened for me. I realized that allowing someone to share my life meant letting them in, do things for me, help me out ... yanno... sharing. In many ways, when you don't let someone help you out, you're not only not letting them in, you're also sending a pretty powerful "F-you" message. Took me a while to get that.


the context he said it in was directed at the fact that I am overly-independent. Not one to take a helping hand willingly. I have developed some interesting views about myself and what I look like in a relationship with someone. Basically, and I know I'll catch hell for this, I adhere to the belief that if your ring isn't on my finger, then I am not your responsibility. Call it _____________________(fill in the blank) but that is what I have come to believe.


Interesting, how does a relationship evolve and develop for you? You're two separate people and then you become what? Responsible for what? What is at stake for you when someone helps you out? What do you lose when someone gives you a hand ?

It strikes me as a competitive place to live life from. You seem to be the gatekeeper of your relationship: you get to decide exactly what type and how much sharing there will be.

Imagine buying your lover a cup of coffee. Yep, they can buy their own cup of coffee, but it feels good to share with them, doesn't it? Then you tell them that they can't buy you a cup of coffee - it's only you who gets to have the feel-goods from this. And the only time you'll ever actually allow them is when you have absolutely no other choice.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 29 (view)
 
Being in the Moment While Dating
Posted: 8/13/2012 2:11:27 AM
I really enjoyed dating; I loved meeting people and "getting" them. It's an extraordinary opportunity to see the world through their eyes and to notice my reactions. That's 'being in the moment while dating' for me.

How in the heck can anyone be in the moment if they are not willing to let things 'be'?
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 20 (view)
 
i really dont know what else to do, im worried....
Posted: 8/10/2012 10:48:47 PM
It's a pain to be sure, but don't engage in convo with his friends... just stirs the pot.

Shift your perspective a bit.

From "why is he doing this to me?/OMG I can't believe what he is doing now"
^^ which is in the neighbourhood of where I think you are now

To: "look, more evidence of jerkiness - glad this sucker is gone"
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 31 (view)
 
My bf won't stop talking about his ex...
Posted: 8/10/2012 7:42:27 PM
Clearly tell him you are tired of hearing about her. You might have to tell him more than once. Regardless of whether this relationship works or not it will be great practice for you in being honest.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 4 (view)
 
i really dont know what else to do, im worried....
Posted: 8/10/2012 7:34:00 PM
Wow, nasty fellow. My gut reaction is he is yanking your chain to get a reaction from you - more of the hurtful stuff he said when you broke up. Seems like he gets off on it.

What I don't get is the "I'm afraid he'll never allow me to be happy because of that..." bit. Why is there any "allow" in this and what the heck does he have to do with your happiness?

Look, I get this is embarrassing, humiliating and a betrayal. Cut him out, walk away and forget it. Don't feed his twisted need to humiliate you.

And you know what? If the worst possible thing happened and he did post this on the internet, there's so much porn out there 'you' would be lost in the ocean of it. I suspect that's not really his deal tho' - it feels like he needs your reaction for his juice (and his friends - if in fact he has shown it around).
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 22 (view)
 
Boyfriend moving then not moving for his kids
Posted: 8/10/2012 12:33:36 PM
Someone else's confusion is NOT your responsibility to take on. You're clear on what you want, all you need to do is put it in play. Don't wait for his timing especially when it is going to impact on your plans. Try something like: "I'm starting school September, we know this is over, you need to move to cali to be with your kids, please move this month so everything is done by the time I start school"

^^ you will notice this doesn't get into any details of who people are or aren't - it just states very plainly 'what is' and the request.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 18 (view)
 
The Butterfly Effect
Posted: 7/1/2012 7:30:08 PM
About 5 years ago I met my sweetie for the first time. He didn't have a pic posted on POF, *claimed* he didn't have one to send so I joked with him that he was likely a gnomish trolly sort of fellow and I would take one look at him and barf on his shoes. I was exurberently predicting "fastest meet evah"

Right, I'm *still* trying to convince him that I am a total klutz and tripped on something, but he'll *nevah* let me wiggle out of this one ... My eyes met his, those dayum butterflies did a kamakaze back flip, my knees buckled and I crashed into the door jam.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 30 (view)
 
First Date...
Posted: 6/26/2012 10:57:09 AM
First date with my sweetie was a book signing with one of his fav authors. After hearing the author speak, we lined up for over an hour to get the books signed. It was a hoot! I figured if we could have fun standing in a line, we could have fun going/doing/being anywhere.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 15 (view)
 
The Ex's son
Posted: 6/26/2012 7:35:19 AM

You don't need to talk with the mother... just send her an email and tell her you'll continue to communicate with the boy unless you hear otherwise. Then you've done your part in letting her know. If she has a strong opposition to that, she'll either let you know or talk with her son.

^^ I like this advice **waves to Janet**

When a kid finds someone they connect with it can be a valuable resource through turbulent times.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 37 (view)
 
Weekend Getaway Gone Wrong :0(
Posted: 6/25/2012 7:42:44 AM

what I could never understand is how it takes some folks long enough to need reading material whilst on the throne...?!

I've read entire books in the throne room... few pages at a time. Multi-tasking is a good use of your time hahaa.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 57 (view)
 
Forums are grabbing my attention more than the profiles, OH NO!! lol
Posted: 6/25/2012 7:33:42 AM

honestly hope that i won't be looking back at these posts five years from now!

I've been here 5 years (met my sweetie through POF and stayed for the forums) and it is a total kick when an old thread resurfaces and you get to revisit yourself!

**What happens in Band Camp, stays in Band Camp**
I've never been banned. I don't say this as a badge of merit, its just a factoid. I'm either too polite or people don't understand my insults hahaa. My sweetie got banned on a fairly regular basis and many/most/some of my forum friends have had a turn at band camp.

I actually have TRIED to get banned. When I get worked up about something it kinda comes out as menacing as "Cry havoc and let slip the poodles of war". People probably looked at my worst posts and backed away thinking "wow, Margo is having a really bad day, send her a virtual beer".
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 59 (view)
 
Fellow men, have you felt this way also??
Posted: 6/23/2012 9:58:13 PM
I never wanted kids - it wasn't that I didn't like them or didn't want the crimp in my lifestyle as much as I didn't think I would be a good mum. I never got the hang of 'kid speak' and really envy those people who can naturally step into a kidsspace.

And then I had my Most Interesting Year - married, pregnant, divorced and gave birth within 12 months. Wowzer.

In the months where I was pregnant and alone, definitely not ever how I had planned how my life would go **grins** I laid awake at night worried about the awesome responsibility of launching a human being in the world. I really worried whether I going to be able to do this well. I really wanted to be a good parent, but sometimes you suck at something no matter how badly you want to do well at it... and I was afraid this would be one of those things. She wasn't even born yet and her parents had messed up her life. Great start, eh?

But yanno, in the moment she was born I felt my life's priorities effortlessly and instantaneously alter. It was the most extraordinary feeling. In that moment I "got" what love is. I "got" how my parents loved me. I don't think anyone can really get it until they have their kid. It's kinda like when you were learning how to ride a bike, no matter how well someone explained "balance" you didn't get it until the moment you experienced it. I used to worry about maybe resenting "giving up" stuff or the way my life would alter because I had a kid... all of it was absolutely nothing to give up, because my life was willingly transformed in the moment of her birth. That still blows me away.

She's off to university in 10 weeks. It sure doesn't feel like it's been a 20 year ride. Yeah, there's been some rough patches... I've laid awake nights worrying about how to handle something or how I can help her get out of her own way. I cannot imagine my life without her in it. It would seem somehow less significant. I have learned so much about life and love being her mum. I never did get the hang of kidspeak but we sure had fascinating conversations and I've done so many things I would never have done without her. Gosh, she is so different than I am it has been fascinating to see the world thru her eyes. I learned how to throw a ball, do the nine timestables with my fingers and fell in love all over again with hockey. **grins**

The best thing I have ever done in my life is be this extraordinary person's support. I have had successes in my life - climbed the corporate ladder, achieved what I set out to, travelled a bunch, but yanno, as important as I once thought all that was, the thing that really matters to me, the thing I am most proud of is being her mum. It was the toughest job I have ever done and absolutely no contest, the most fulfilling and rewarding.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 43 (view)
 
We're exclusive - does the POF account need to be hidden?
Posted: 6/23/2012 3:11:55 PM
OP = Opening Post
... and also Opening Poster.

I'm still here and, until he got tired of the forums, so was my sweetie.

It's good you are openly communicating together about this... that bodes well for learning about each other. Taking how he has presented this at face value...

I generally don't have a problem with flirtatious behaviour. I have a huge problem you are uncomfortable and he is placing his virtual flirting ahead of your discomfort. If either my sweetie or myself were uncomfortable with continuing here in any capacity, we'd pull out of here pronto. Real life has to come before pixels, or in the world according to me, priorities are messed up.

I also have some issue with him flirting with people who think he is genuine - yanno, available. Besides the obvious (to me anyway) integrity issue... There's a fair number of timewasters and jerk-people-arounders on POF and your new fellow obviously doesn't care about being one of those people who get women's *hopes up* only to pull a disappearing act. I don't like it when people put their ego stroke or gratification ahead of consideration for other people - even strangers.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 44 (view)
 
Is it normal to not have dated in highschool?
Posted: 6/23/2012 1:16:52 PM

my youngest is like that; was called Napoleon Dynamite through school (and in thearmy); massive gamer, massive mathlete; knowledge bowler, presidential scholar and voted smartest senior. Never had a date; always was embarrassed hwen a girl would talk to him; at one point I literally wondered if he was gay (he isn't). So I'm also waiting for him to eventually ask out a girl. I wonder when it will happen... :)

If they haven't started in a few years maybe we should introduce them **grins**
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 35 (view)
 
Is it normal to not have dated in highschool?
Posted: 6/22/2012 11:31:45 PM
Nah, never doomed. You'll be more experienced by tomorrow - experience is like that, it builds regardless of where or when you start it.

My kiddo is a few years younger than you - she's a jock geek math girl. Spent her high school years teaching herself html, making smart phone apps, playing hockey. Had one bf in HS who was in the student run school IT dept. Frankly, there weren't a whole boatload of people she would have been interested in dating, so I'm glad she didn't try to force it because *you're supposed to date*. Fun for her was getting together with her geek friends, setting up a LAN at someone's house and having 24 hour gaming party. She skipped prom - said she wasn't much interested in hanging with a bunch of people she hadn't liked all that much. I said sometimes people regret missing it - she figured she could live with the lifelong disappointment **grins**.

She'll likely start dating at uni - she'll find a larger pool of geeks, err compatible people.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 7 (view)
 
When the man moves fast and furious....
Posted: 6/19/2012 5:59:55 PM
Depends on what you mean by "quickly" - hanging around these forums for a few years has taught me people have VASTLY different opinions of quick and slow.

IME, *most* times the urge to "seal the deal" quickly reflected an insecurity and it fizzled. But sometimes it didn't. You just have to get to know the person. What someone feels today, may not be how they feel next week... and that regardless of how fast or slow one moves. There's no guarantees.

Have fun getting to know someone, enjoy it and in the fullness of time you'll know.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 39 (view)
 
19 and Never Had a Girlfriend?
Posted: 6/18/2012 10:47:05 PM
My daughter is around your age and, as a socially awkward geek girl, she's had to learn social skills. She practiced speaking with people on-line which helped. She learned how to ask open ended questions (the sort that can't be answered with a yes or no) to get a conversation started - and keep it flowing.

Look for "How to Make People Like You in 90 seconds or Less" - it's a good primer on conversation, connection and building rapport with new people.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 31 (view)
 
personality vs. character
Posted: 6/18/2012 8:00:35 PM
I think it was Ann Landers who said eons ago...
"You fall in love with their personality and then live with their character"
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 22 (view)
 
What makes men fall in love with a woman?
Posted: 6/17/2012 1:45:09 PM
Judging from the men who were (or thought for a time they were) in love with me... there's usually some physical thing that is their zinger (for my sweetie it was my smile and my "dirty" laugh) and then the thing that was most frequently repeated was I am warm. I don't think they meant warm like a warm body that's available **grins** But for long term, I think it is you tend to approach life in a compatible way.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 32 (view)
 
Winning?
Posted: 6/17/2012 6:43:24 AM

The point is that I'm not gonna do anything more than treat her the way I would want to be treated.

The point is... you do/say things that treat her the way SHE wants to be treated, not the way YOU would want to be treated.

I had an ex that always threw me the B-day parties THEY would like: big parties, lots of people... when I would have preferred, and frequently voiced my preference, a quiet evening together or with a few very close friends to mark the occasion. And, yes, knowing "the big dealio" was important to them, I planned that sort of a party when their b-day came along - even tho' I would have preferred a quiet dinner without all of the hoopla.

You might find the "5 Love languages" a useful read. You seem to have a fairly dangerous ribbon of "tit for tat" and "winner/loser" mentality going on which will get in the way of building a relationship IMO. Relationship is about relating to the other person, filling their needs, getting yours met.

I do get where you're coming from - there does need to be reciprocity in a relationship - just what *that* looks like can well be very different depending on the individual person's needs. Somehow, I don't think you're the sort to be WOWED with a bunch of flowers. Heck, when we were dating I used to every once in a while bring my sweetie some flowers, or now here's special for you: a double roll pack of TP or paper towels, or facial tissues <-- I tell ya NOTHING says "I love you" like bringing a bulky item to someone who lugs their grocery shopping home on the subway.

There was a thread here a few years ago about trinkets - the OP felt as the fellow wasn't bringing her trinkets, he wasn't all that into her and she was going to dump him over it. Almost everyone was dumping on her for being materialistic, including me. When I mentioned the thread (I was just a titch worked up over the subject LOL) to my sweetie, he said "Yanno, I actually think she has a point and we'll talk about it tonight after work".

When he arrived later that night, he told me to hold out my hands... you could almost hear the drum rolls as he rummaged through his bag and emerged with an object, which he placed - with a loving flourish - into my outstretched hands.

"What is this?" I asked dubiously, looking at this odd, very large, cheap, - dare I say ugly? - plastic crank handle pencil sharpener .

"Oh sweetie" he exclaimed, "I thought *you* of all people would instantly recognize what this is. I am sooooooooooooo, soooooooooo disappointed. This... " he paused for dramatic effect, "THIS is a trinket, because you are loved THAT MUCH"

Oh my, I laughed and that darn plastic pencil sharpener still has pride of place on my living room bookshelf. And you know - It worked, I DID feel loved.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 90 (view)
 
If We Understood the Opposite Sex Like We Understand Our Own Gender ..?
Posted: 6/16/2012 6:17:18 PM

.... though I'd prefer to call it my "Quiet Place" rather than my "Nothing Place" and I don't live in caves, I live in castles....

When my sweetie moved in we insisted he have the 3rd bedroom as his "Penis Palace" - I figure two people in love need to be able to get away from each other from time to time. **grins**

I like the balance of male/female. If we understand more about how the other person approaches things, especially their communication styles, we can more easily tailor communication to work with them. I think it's a matter of paying attention, applying what you notice and letting any differences be ok.

Hahaa... Just today I was prattling on about my garden, caught my sweetie's barely perceptible twitch and stopped, saying"I'm talking too much" to which he quickly replied "No, no, its ok, I was just listening too much!". We howled.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 37 (view)
 
Online dating working for you?
Posted: 6/16/2012 5:53:42 PM
Met him on POF in 2007 - been around five years from our first real date. We're engaged (which I swore I would never do again). Have also developed some real friendships and met a lot of great people. We hosted a BBQ a few years ago to meet some of the forumites. Yeah, there's the others as well, but I guess it depends on what you focus on.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 87 (view)
 
Deal Breaking Quarrel
Posted: 6/15/2012 12:48:56 AM
Oh boy. You won't like my opinion at all OP - I guarantee you it will reveal my "attitude to people". I assumed when I read your opening post that this was the first - and last - argument the pair of you had. My opinion of that incident is there were sufficient red flags flapping on both sides that (as someone in this thread said) "I wouldn't date either one of you".

IF I were ever in the position of having to cancel plans last minute because I was tired from work, and received a righteous rather than gracious response to it, well that would be the end of the dealio as far as I am concerned. Does not bode well for a considerate partner. Neither of you seem very considerate or gracious IMO. Heck, even though this has been nothing more than wild azz speculation on your part.... if I'd been so caught up in my day that I'd forgotten I had a date planned that night, it'd be the same thing. His forgetting (if, indeed he did forget) could also add support to what a lousy day he'd had.

Just as an aside because I'm late to this party - if his day went sideways in the last 2 hours that WOULD be a very good reason why it took him an hour to return your call. Even so, I have to admit no matter how much someone's righteous attitude ticked me off, I wouldn't call back 30 times. So, yeah, he's sure not winning any prizes.

Your recent follow up post demonstrates more of your righteous attitude - my oh my, you have a huge need to be right. You also might be a bit delusional... He lost his temper when arranging your first coffee date and you still met with him? You agree to be tested and he refuses to show his results.... and you continued to see him?

You claim you "don't give a sh*t", yet you started this thread (which suggests you very much do give a sh*t - perhaps not about him, but most certainly about being right) and then came back to it some weeks later and just had to provide us with these other details - including what he is posting on his FB wall? And now the man is upgraded to narcissist?

Yanno, I was going to say if you'd truly "scraped him off the bottom of your Manolos" why are you still FB stalking him, but I figured you'd offer that you remained FB friends because he "knows where you live" and you want to keep up the pretense that this is/was an amicable break up. Even if I give you that one, heck if you weren't interested in FB stalking him you'd have changed your settings so you wouldn't see what he was posting to his wall.

So OP, you're way more invested in this than you would like to admit but I doubt you'll want to face that.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 4 (view)
 
break up message
Posted: 6/14/2012 6:41:06 AM
My nephew just got engaged to his high school sweetheart. They broke up at the end of high school to go their separate ways to university. Like your fellow, it was a nice break up - both really liked each other and were being smart about how the distance and challenges usually wreck havoc on a relationship. They both had several relationships and when their paths crossed again several years after uni, they rekindled their relationship.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 40 (view)
 
You're young, you have time. Not good advice anymore.
Posted: 6/13/2012 7:51:45 AM
"This is the true joy in life, the being used for a purpose recognized by yourself as a mighty one; the being a force of nature instead of a feverish, selfish little clod of ailments and grievances complaining that the world will not devote itself to making you happy." ~ George Bernard Shaw

I don't have much of a problem with your observations: there is a sizable (astonishing?) group of twenty-somethings who have kids and exes that now make them (according to your construct) "undateable". You are faced with the male biological clock ticking (it's nonsense that only women have this) and are concerned about how do I know we genuinely are 'it' for each other vs they are a 'good enough' vehicle to getting me the marriage/family I want .

Where I have a problem is having made these observations, you are stuck on wanting the world to line up how you want it to, rather than adjusting your goals/constructs to meet the reality you live in. (and oddly enough, that's the same complaint you have about the "lot's of time" advice).

You have to decide which is more important to you... finding your life partner may involve changing the rules you have manufactured.

And BTW, if you are fully occupied with meaningless sex you aren't available for something different. Do you have the time to squander on stuff that isn't in alignment for where you want your life to go?

edit to add: The OP's quest to find someone who hasn't been "marred" in life reminds me of the quest years ago where some men demanded a virgin ~ just an observation.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 48 (view)
 
Too emotionally damaged to trust men?
Posted: 6/13/2012 7:21:19 AM
Good post Motown.

I have a bit of an issue with 'self esteem' - because it is so nebulous, it's hard to get a handle on - most especially for someone who is caught in the "I've gotta get me some self esteem" hamster wheel. Plus it's a modern term - so it's kinda made up and like all 'catch-all, convenient labels, sometimes the label interferes with getting at exactly what the elements of it are. (To illustrate my point - I also have a similar issue with the word 'quality' as we all have different characteristics that are necessary to declare something is high or low quality - for some it might be durability, others weight of material or stitching or richness of the colour. I think it is much more useful to parse out what characteristics create the perception of quality - and that's what I'm suggesting one does for 'self esteem').

Similarly, I think finding, getting or improving this made up catch all label of self esteem involves looking at specific areas where we need to develop new muscles, or make new decisions. In short, it's not so much 'getting self esteem' as it is being aware of the specific things we are thinking, doing and not doing that are interfering with us having mastery of our own life. I actually think it is more useful to work on mastering your own life than it is to "get more self esteem".

If one were to tear apart their self esteem issues, trying to figure out what it looks like for them, I suspect we'd find things like 1. having the confidence to know you'll be able to handle yourself in situations, (which includes being able to survive/correct your own inevitable mistakes), 2. Being able to read your own emotions/thoughts, 3. Being able to have your own emotions, 4. Being able to hold your various emotions and having the freedom to pick what action you want to take in a situation (rather than being dictated by one of your reactive [automatic and often subconscious] feelings) 5. Actually believing (distinct from saying) you are 'enough' - even with your normal flawed human being status, you're still 'enough' or 'good enough'.

There's others of course, everyone has crafted their own flavour of self-esteem issues **grins**. I think therapy is an excellent tool to use to take a look at exactly what your own constructs are. They are all based on the decisions one made as a child on who they are, how the world works and how it should work. "Poor self esteem" is actually the strategies one devised as a child to be able to cope and they are really effective at protecting you from those dangers. They just totally suck at mastering your adult life, and often get in the way of how you want to live and relate to people as an adult. So I guess I'm saying you don't find or develop self esteem - you find adult answers to questions we all deal with throughout our lives.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 4 (view)
 
Possessive or not right
Posted: 6/12/2012 10:55:42 AM
This could be a case of an online relationship not being able to stand up to existing in real life. Or it might be a case of people in a new/developing relationship acting like it is an established relationship before it is established (getting ahead of themselves) and setting demands/expectations on the other person that they then react against and get trapped in a cycle of power struggle.

Being possessive is like that - one expects the other person to behave in a way **I** expect my partner to behave. Trying to force someone to play a role like this doesn't allow a relationship to develop and get to know each other IMO. When someone tells you you are being possessive, they are telling you you are crowding them and getting into their space. People tend to back away from this - no one really likes being pressured. They back away even further if every contact is another long litany of being told "what a schmuck I am for not being who you want me to me" or the list of "how you have hurt me".

ugh.

As you have recounted it, neither of you win prizes for open communication, cooperation or collaboration.

Did I get this right?

When he did want to talk I was acting like I can't be here anytime when you need me while you are not there when i need you, so I told him I was busy couldn't meet him.

So, you wanted to talk and when he was available you chose to punish him for not being instantly at your beck and call? Not a good move - this was you actually getting in the way of what you say you want to happen.

"come closer, no, go away. I want you now, no, I don't want you at all. I want to talk, no not now, I'm not ready now. Oh look, now you've made me cry" <-- crazy making confusing communication, especially for a brand new relationship

But I'm not convinced that what you say you wanted to have happen is actually what you wanted, not really. I **suspect** based on nothing more than wild speculation, that you were afraid moving into a new place and settled all your fears on him, making him responsible for your well being... and likely making it his fault as well. And when he backed off, you increased the pressure, effectively driving him even further away.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 4 (view)
 
Too emotionally damaged to trust men?
Posted: 6/11/2012 9:22:18 PM
Some therapy is a good support structure at a time like this.

You're overthinking and overfearing things and in the midst of all that aren't seeing what is right in front of you. So part of what you need to do is learn to get a stop switch for the thinking/worrying track you put yourself on.

Stand "toe to toe with really what's so". Break out or separate out what you fear and what is really happening so you can see him clearly for who is is and what he is doing.

You're in a good place to get a handle on things because you see what your fears are doing. Stopping destructive thinking is about learning new skills. Kinda sad if you allow your fear it might end to screw up the chance for it to begin.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 64 (view)
 
PROBLEM with stepkid
Posted: 6/11/2012 9:10:58 PM
I'm going to mangle this and will have to discuss it with him again - but he doesn't have his profile anymore and I'll just have to try to interpret what he said about it. (he says Hi Nomadic!)

My sweetie says you have to take it on faith that what you are doing and who you are being is going to pay off in the future when the dust settles. Because it will, the dust will settle on this eventually. It's hard to see it now because you're too close to it. Who you are being in the dark times is planting the seed or building that foundation of trust and love and support and caring and consideration and cooperation... and I guess trust is trusting that your partner is doing the best they can with what they've got. Just as you are doing the best you can with the resources you have in the moment.

So I guess maybe if you keep the focus on who you are being to support your partner it gives you a different place to look from.

It seems to me that when people are standing beside each other in the midst of a problem the relationship stays strong because we're "us" and the problem is over there... it's when they break away from each other that the problem starts to look like the partner. Shift your perspective and the problem shifts.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 63 (view)
 
PROBLEM with stepkid
Posted: 6/11/2012 8:46:18 PM
**ouch** Nomadic, my heart goes out to all of you. Sometimes people need to run into/through a whole bunch of brick walls before they get their message. And gosh it's rough.

Having said that, it seems you're on the right track... it is his decision how to handle things with his son. Your deal is to keep your relationship from being a casualty of that process.

I can't really offer any useful advice, I haven't been on your side of the blanket. Now my sweetie could probably offer a few things because he's the one who had to watch/support me in the process with my teen. (and the kiddo wasn't messing up as seriously as the young man you're dealing with - her brand of self-sabotage didn't involve breaking the law for starters). My sweetie did a most excellent job of not adding to my burden during those trying times. He was a valued sounding board for my talking about what to try next and picking my way thru the morass. I imagine there were times... well, heck, I know there were times even if he didn't say it outloud, that he disagreed with my approach, sometimes strongly if I'm reading the timing of his walks correctly. But it was *my* approach, one that came from who I am and the relationship I have with my kiddo, and who she is. I had a learning curve in all of this too. Dayum growth opportunities.

So, I'm not entirely certain where he parked his inevitable frustration during the times when it built up. I'm also not sure how he managed to keep an even keel. But he did. Bless him. It would have been much, much tougher if I had to battle two fronts during those tough times.

I guess maybe the thing to remember is people do the best they can with what they have. And sometimes in the figuring out of what to do and who to be and what is the best course of action for everyone's needs.... we come up empty and sometimes we manage a bit of success. But my gosh you gotta love a partner who is there with you on your "not my best" days. I guess maybe that might be something to think about/focus on when the frustration gets high.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 12 (view)
 
Love, in its purest form. Can it happen more than once?
Posted: 6/11/2012 7:16:08 PM
Scarcity mentality makes no sense to me especially with regards to love.

Love isn't a finite commodity - there isn't so much to go around and when you've had it, that's it, "no soup for you". Love is infinite and it is created by people - you simply can't run out unless you choose to stop.

Pondering if one is capable of loving large again is akin to saying you can only truly love one of your children. Or the dog you have is the best dog and you'll never love another dog again.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 5 (view)
 
Love, in its purest form. Can it happen more than once?
Posted: 6/11/2012 6:30:23 PM

Does this automatically harden the heart so that it is incapable of feeling so deeply?

While it is true it is all too easy for disappointments to lead to heart hardening and/or defenses built another layer higher, it is not inevitable. It is just as possible that devastation can create the opportunity/opening for someone to grow. In fact, I would argue I have experienced this. I was laid out when my ex cheated on me... I have never experienced pain like that in my life - my absolute worst fear blowing up in my face. But somehow, diving into it and looking at it, really looking into the places that scare you, I gradually emerged on the other side free of my fears. Having come face to face with my worst fear, I knew it didn't kill me and I *knew* it also wouldn't kill me in the future if I had the misfortune to face it again (it only felt like it might for a while there). So I would say I was actually more available, more free to love large and unencumbered than at any other time in my life. Gotta love the friggin growth opportunities life hands you from time to time **grins**
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 37 (view)
 
ways to express yourself...
Posted: 6/11/2012 5:25:22 AM

I was just looking for a word that means I cherish her, I appreciate her, I want her to share in my life, I miss her when she isn't around and I enjoy every second I spend with her.

Well, this ^^ would do it for me. Back when my sweetie was doing the heavy lifting in waiting for the obvious to dawn on me, he clearly was in love with me, and I could tell on account of all the things he did and said, yet thankfully, he cleverly avoided the "i love you" bit.

Cleverly because I *was* a bit of a commitment phobe who had issues with how quickly love gets thrown about. But he sure let me know what he found cool about me, and how much he loved our talks, and all the stuff he loved doing together. So it was very obvious how he felt, but he didn't pressure me with the words. Clever fella.

Now? Heck, we say "i love you" whenever one of us leaves the room.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 25 (view)
 
Has your type evolved over time?
Posted: 6/3/2012 1:36:50 AM
Used to prefer them with hair... now I'm extremely fond of bald/shaved **grins**
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 49 (view)
 
Has anyone had a good relationship with someone on POF?
Posted: 5/31/2012 4:46:29 PM
Yeppers... just offered him a 5 yr extension on the contract. **grins**

Quite a few people meet here and have successful relationships - most of them go away so there aren't many of us left hangin' around to tell you about the success stories... just me and and my fellow forum addicts.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 163 (view)
 
Divorced? Would you re-marry?
Posted: 5/18/2012 5:11:02 PM

Every situation is different but I can say this. If you earned it together, you deserve half. If you gave up a career to raise children, you deserve half.
On the other hand, if you chose a career that ended in you making half of what he makes, that is your problem, not his and you dont deserve his money because you married him for a few years.

Someone stated that this is "Bitter". No actually, that is in no way bitter. That is a example of what the word would be like if there was any common sense left in it.

I am 40 years old. Anyone I meet will likely be close to my age. I have chosen my path in life and so has any woman I decide to get serious about. At this point, there should be no judge on the planet that would say..." O she deserves your money because she earned half of the house I had owned for 10 years prior to the marraige" or " Her career only nets her 30,000 per year and you make 100,000 so you need to pay her". She chose a career that netted 30k long before she met me. Unfortunatelly, our legal system would say she deserves my money and house.

COMPLETELY agree with this post.

That’s far too simplistic; for many people, both men and women, where they end up on the “earning” scale might be as much due to circumstance/interests/opportunity as to planning and has a lot to do with societal expectations.

While this is true, **I** should not be required to pay half of my assets in the name of equalization because of someone's prior circumstance/interests/opportunity/poor planning or societal expectations. In my view it is unjust. Our current legal system is why I said I would never get married again. Why I eventually changed my mind is a different story, but doesn't alter my opinion of how unfair the legal system's dissolution of "financial relationships" is (which is how they view marriage in Ontario and BC . And while I'm on a roll, BC is worse IMO because of the lack of distinction between cohabitation and marriage. simply nutso.)

As for the rest of your post, it boils down to "if we lived in a different world...". We don't, we live in this world. Higher income is based on generating revenue for the company or doing dangerous/dirty/inconvenient jobs. Getting married is entering into a financial relationship and will be dissolved unequally in the name of equalization. If one doesn't like it, the options are: roll the dice and hope the person you love today will STILL feel the legal system isn't fair if the relationship doesn't work out, do a prenup and hope it holds up/laws haven't changed or not marry again at all.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 96 (view)
 
Intelligence and compatibility
Posted: 5/17/2012 8:28:45 PM
^^ Research also indicates women are uncomfortable with men having less income and education than they have. Women are also uncomfortable that they are uncomfortable because they know it isn't how they "should" feel/react.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 98 (view)
 
Divorced? Would you re-marry?
Posted: 5/16/2012 9:38:38 PM
I used to say I would never marry again. Had some sound and logical reasons for it too. I did say I'd live with someone as long as we had a solid pre-nup. And just when I had all my little ducks in a comfortable row... along came DBB and I eventually changed my mind.

I keep forgetting when we are getting married. I really don't care... as long as it is after Dec 21, 2112 cuz who in their right mind would want to go thru all that bother if the world was going to end? But then my daughter insisted if we were eloping to Vegas, SHE had to come to and would never forgive us if she was excluded. Although DBB has made noises about how can one elope if someone else comes along, I think it's summer 2013... just in time for the 7 year itch.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 32 (view)
 
Emotion or time
Posted: 5/10/2012 1:38:23 AM
I might well know how I feel now, but in the fullness of time I'll know if I still feel that way. There's no fast forward in life, you live it now and ride the trajectory. We can really only know things in the rearview mirror.

Great post Igor.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 57 (view)
 
Only 5% of relationships work out on this site
Posted: 5/10/2012 12:34:38 AM
POF isn't a relationship site - it's a meeting site. I think that's a pretty important distinction.

It gave me the opportunity to meet a larger and more diversified group of people very quickly. I don't think 5% is low... infact I'd argue if 20% - 1 in 5 - of the people you meet online or in IRL are compatible for a relationship, then one isn't being sufficiently discerning.

Met my sweetie here - we have the Big Oh Five coming up in a few weeks. He lived about 10 minutes away and we never would have met IRL.
 
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