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 Author Thread: Why do most guys NOT SMILE in there pix??
 elmwood
Joined: 2/21/2005
Msg: 45 (view)
 
Why do most guys NOT SMILE in there pix??
Posted: 3/31/2005 10:42:21 AM
I smile in my photos.

Reading what women think about MSW ads is fascinating, since I don't look at male profiles myself. I do know about the shirtless shots, and the poses with big-ticket adult toys, but not the GRRRR I'M TOUGH frowns.

The WSM photo cliches I see would be a great subject for another thread.

* Group hugs with several friends that could also easily match the description of the profilee.
* Poses with ex-boyfriends.
* Big haired Glamour Shots photos.
* Awkward, blurry, and dark cam shots.
* Photos depicting only sunsets, flowers, or ponds. "Wow! Nice gladiolas! Wanna' go out?"
* Photos in bridesmaid dresses.
 elmwood
Joined: 2/21/2005
Msg: 4 (view)
 
Are there some geographic regions, where dating is more successfu?
Posted: 3/31/2005 10:18:25 AM
Before I forget ... if you're not that good looking, don't expect to land in a hottie in a place where there's a limited dating pool. There's a lot of lonely fat girls in Alaska.

The saying "the odds are good, but the goods are odd" can also apply.
 elmwood
Joined: 2/21/2005
Msg: 3 (view)
 
Are there some geographic regions, where dating is more successfu?
Posted: 3/31/2005 10:11:44 AM
It depends.

I don't buy into the argument that certain cities hae an incredibly lopsided ratio of women to men, or men to women. There are some places where it's going to be tough going if you're a man, though -- Alaska, Wyoming, Silicon Valley, and towns with a military base or training center.

Every city has its unique challenges, quirks and barriers when it comes to meeting someone of the opposite sex. Some cities are known for having a population that is very religious, and "interdating" there is far less common than in most of the country; a larger percentage of the population will be off-limits. If you're not Catholic, good luck meeting someone in Providence, Scranton or Buffalo. Non-Mormons will find it harder to hook up in Salt Lake City. Cities with a very strong Western-oriented culture, like Amarillo or Cheyenne, will be difficult dating markets for young professionals who don't know the difference between a Hereford and a Holstein. Cities that are dominated by one or two ethnic groups, like Erie or Houma, will also be tough markets to break into.

You may stick out more in a smaller city with a limited dating pool, but you'll also have a smaller choice of members of the opposite or appropriate sex. If a city is too small, or there are economic problems, it may be hard meeting other singles at all; because they're not tied down, they're more likely to relocate. In larger cities, the dating pool will be larger, but the competition will be tougher; there's always going to be a wealthier, taller, more handsome and more personable guy just around the corner.

As far as the "loaded with fake people" statement goes, the cities I've heard most associated with that complaint are Miami, Dallas, Las Vegas, LA and Washington DC. Atlanta and Orlando sometimes get thrown in there, too. Strangely, not NYC or Chicago.
 elmwood
Joined: 2/21/2005
Msg: 1 (view)
 
Should I lie about my income?
Posted: 3/8/2005 2:04:14 PM
On many dating sites, income is broken down into several ranges - $25K and less, $25K to $34K, $35K to $49K, $40K to $74K, $75K to $100K, and so on. The majority of professional, educated women near where I live have a minimum income of $50K in their preferences, and for many it's $75K.

I've got both a bachelor's and master's degree in my chosen field. I've got no debt whatsoever, except a mortgage on a comfortably sized house on a large lot in a good neighborhood. I drive a late model vehicle; not new, not luxury, but nothing to laugh at.

My income - in the $35K to $49K category. Thing is, if my salary was just $500 more a year, I'd be in the next highest category.

I'm completely honest in my profile - weight, height, age, marital status, and so on. I'm also honest about income. However, when women see "$35K to $49K" in my profile, they're probably thinking "this guy makes $35K."

I wish women wouldn't consider a man's income, but they ALL have it in their preferences, even if they don't show their own income. I'd like to leave mine out, but I'm afraid nobody will respond (as opposed to the 5% to 7% response rate I now enjoy ... feh), because they'll think "he's trying to hide something." My income really is none of their business, but the rules are different in the world of online dating.

So, what do you think? Should I fudge my income by a few dollars, and just say I make $50K? Should I leave it out entirely? What do women really think when they don't see income listed in a personal ad profile?
 elmwood
Joined: 2/21/2005
Msg: 40 (view)
 
people you are tired of getting messages from
Posted: 3/7/2005 7:26:18 AM

Elmwood, that was a funny description of the women who e-mail you. Wonder what it is about your profile that gets the "über-moms" wearing helmets interested in you? I mean, I read your profile and you give no indication that that sort of life appeals to you! Any idea why these women are after you?


I have absolutely, positively no idea. The über-mom e-mail is really encountered on match.com (there are very few women in my area on POF). My profile there is more ot less the same as here, photos and all. There's a lot of women with children on Match, but I get the short and layered-haired soccer moms. It leave me scratching my head.

Some twentysomething women in this thread have complained that men who are much older than they are flood their mailbox. The über-moms that write me aren't really older than me in age, but it seems like their attitude, mindset and lifestyle resembles someone in their late 40s or early 50s; they just _seem_ much older. Not to sound like a cliche, but I'm 39 going on 30. Dating an über-mom -- as opposed to a single mom -- to me seems oedipan, and thus a bit creepy.

(BTW, I don't pursue women tho are more than five or six years younger than me. I know they don't want me, so why bother?)
 elmwood
Joined: 2/21/2005
Msg: 4 (view)
 
Foreign women who place ads in American locations
Posted: 3/4/2005 2:57:27 PM
They post with US locations to draw more responses than they would if they just said "Novosibirsk."

You should be able to tell from the bad grammar in the ad - "Hello I am look for the niceing and goodly man ..." Some are better than others, but they're usually very generic.

Also look for photos that look posed, but not like a Glamour Shot or black-and-white portfolio headshot. Usually they'll list their location as the largest city in the region; almost never a suburb. Russians know about Detroit and Chicago, but they don't know about Novi or Hoffman Estates. On sites that include language, they'll usually list "Russian" as one of their spoken languages.

I live in a neighborhood with a large population of Russian immigrants. I can tell if a woman is a local Russian-American because she'll use the name of my town instead of the central city, and she'll include references to places or activities only a local would really know about. Many are Jewish and indicate their religion, something you'll never see from the Russian-Russians.
 elmwood
Joined: 2/21/2005
Msg: 2 (view)
 
people you are tired of getting messages from
Posted: 3/4/2005 9:09:08 AM
Being a guy, I don't get much unsolicited e-mail from women. When I do get the rare letter, though, it's usually from an über-mom. I'm not talking about single mothers, but rather hardcore minivan-owning soccer moms, where motherhood is the only thing that defines them and forms their identity. The profiles usually include a few of the usual cliches, with the rest describing their kids or the joy of motherhood. Almost all of them, with almost no exceptions, have short hair, too; a somewhat poofy all-above-the-ears layered helmet style. Think "M" without the "ILF".
 elmwood
Joined: 2/21/2005
Msg: 32 (view)
 
Do most women want too much for a relationship?
Posted: 3/3/2005 5:30:04 PM


The ad reeks of such negativity. Things like , "You BETTER not do this, or you MUST be this height, or or don't write me!!!!! Alot of "Musts" or "Better" are used...and it sounds so bad, the woman seems to have made herself out to be a *witch*


I see a LOT of WSM ads like that. Here's a classic from my area; 34, 5' 5", Hispanic, "athletic and toned."


STOP!!!! Read before winking or e-mailing......

Apparently there are a few people in this site who can't read...I get winks and e-mails from people who don't even match 10% of what I'm looking for.... I'm interesting in meeting someone who's clear about what he wants in life and knows what he's looking for in a relationship. Sense of humor is CRUCIAL...nothing sexier than an attractive-confident- funny man. I love kids but I WILL NOT date a man with a previous family... If you are looking for someone with brains/looks and personality…you found me. If you are the type who says you are looking for a woman with personality and then complaining about it, please don’t write. Also if you are the type who needs to be in CONTROL, just remember the things you try to control....control you. I'm passionate about a number of things: family, traveling, music, friends, food and my professional career. The man that will steal my heart has a combination of sense of humor and kindness. I consider myself loving and caring with a twist..... NEED NOT to respond: guys with poor manners, liars, control freaks, guys with "issues". If you are bitter because of a previous relationships, stay away. Don't wink if you have kids. If you are a player who's basically looking to meet chicks in this site to hook u. If you are a drug-users at any level..stay the hell away. I want to hear from someone attractive, in good shape, well-dressed, with a healthy sense of humor, willing to try new things, a man who won’t be intimidate by a strong woman.


Doesn't sound like someone I'd like to be around. "Strong women" doesn't mean demanding or negative.

Even then, I bet there are still some men responding. A LOT of men responding. We do have to be a bit more discriminating.

I wonder if there's a male equivalent - not just "no fat chicks heh heh heh" but something that what Vandelai described.
 elmwood
Joined: 2/21/2005
Msg: 22 (view)
 
Do most women want too much for a relationship?
Posted: 3/3/2005 9:22:59 AM
I hear women say that in online dating, they frequently encounter profiles of couch potato men looking for supermodel women, as if they're trying to reenact a beer commercial in real life. I don't know if that's true or not, because I don't look at MSW ads. Such statements are usually accompanied by a black-and-white belief that "men aren't attracted to large woman - they all want to date size 2 cheerleaders!", as if women who are somewhere in the middle don't exist.

Anyhow, I do see a lot of ads from average and less-than-desirable women who are looking for men that are much taller, more athletic, and wealthier than the norm. This is typical of the lot (but *not* all women - I want to make that very clear): 38 years old, two children, high school education, 5' 7", and a claimed "average" build (with all chubby, emo-style face-only photos).


He must be funny, adventurous, outgoing. No hangups or neuroses. Must like ALL kinds of music, especially country. He must be financially stable and not afraid to "foot the bill" or give or receive gifts on holidays or "just because". He must be physically fit/attractive, without being vain or a "health freak". He must have a kind heart and arms that are always open to me and my son. He must not be afraid of "PDA's - public displays of affection". He must be sexually open, but not gay or bi. He must be strong but not overtly dominating. (a little role-play never hurt, though) He can't be a pushover. He must possess the ability to plan a romantic or fun evening or day without uttering the words, "I dunno, what do you wanna do?".

[more demands snipped for the sake of brevity and sanity]


The profile text is nothing but a checklist - "You must be this, and I want that" without describing the personality behind the ad. She's looking for a man with an athletic build who is at least 6' tall.

I don't know how it would be possible to determine who is trying to reach out of their league more, men or women, since judging that is rather subjective. However, on message boards throughout the Web, I do hear more men complaining about the unreasonably high standards of women online than vice versa.

There is the phenomenon of the "Internet male" on many message boards, though. The best definition of it comes from Something Awful.


Impossibly rigorous standards for what makes a woman attractive. Despite the fact that (or probably because) Internet Male is a virgin he will immediately spot or fabricate physical flaws in the most gorgeous woman.

[snip]

in summary: Will find the smallest fault in the most attractive of women and say "She is not very good looking I can't believe you guys" or something to that extent.

[snip]

The unrealistic standards for women, usually stemming from overexposure to porn and total lack of real sexual experience, is the best-remembered trait of the Internet Male. This probably stems from the fact that, in addition to the article, there was an "I AM INTERNET MALE" thread containing discussions of the aforementioned ****wittery.

Accusations of "Internet Male" are mostly invoked on the forums when a poster goes out of their way to ridicule pictures of another poster's friend/girlfriend that they have posted. This is especially grievous when the Internet Male goes so far as to repost a copy of the original picture with little red circles drawn around the offending traits, using the Brush tool in MSPaint.
 elmwood
Joined: 2/21/2005
Msg: 8 (view)
 
Here is a question
Posted: 2/22/2005 4:28:24 PM
On most dating sites, women outnumber men by two to one, if not more. Women also get swamped in contact from men; while an average woman might get 100 contacts in her first week on a site like Match or Yahoo, a typical man will get almost nothing.

I think women feel that, with the abundance of men writing to them, they can be extremely picky, using very high qualifications as a filter; it's akin to being a kid in a candy store. Thing is, that sort of reasoning could kill off online dating in the long run. Only 5% (a wild guess) of men online would meet strict qualifications like being both "athletic", having an income of $75K or more, and being at least 6' tall. If women are only responding to the most desirable alpha males, and ignoring normal guys, you end up wih something like this:

* Lots of average to above-average women (let's say 50% of the online WSM dating pool) dating the upper 5% of the MSW dating pool.
* Average men getting discouraged because they don't get responses from women in their league.
* Women that may be overweight or with kids get discouraged because they get little contact from men.

This can't work in the long run. The men, whose memberships make up the bulk of a dating site's revenue -- will drift away. "Nobody ever responds ... the ads must be fake." Unfortunately, the failure of some men in the online dating world could result in some misogyny.

Could this really be the case? I'd like to know if VERY successful men -- those who are tall, attractive, athletic, relatively affluent and with no baggage -- do well with online dating.
 elmwood
Joined: 2/21/2005
Msg: 51 (view)
 
Eharmony
Posted: 2/22/2005 4:09:40 PM
Does eHarmony really use Myers-Briggs? I didbn't get that impression, but if that's the case, ENFPs get rejected. Maybe someone else here that is an ENFP can take the test and see if they get the infamous eHarmony "you're hopeless" letter too.
 elmwood
Joined: 2/21/2005
Msg: 137 (view)
 
What are the truly free sites?
Posted: 2/21/2005 6:56:37 PM
Craigslist looks busy if you're in a hip or high-tech city. If you're in a more mundane place, like Pittsburgh or Indianapolis, forget it; it's mostly spam for adult Web sites, or dull ads like "SWF 24 seeks SWM 23-30. Send pix. Must be at least 6' 2" tall."

Even when comparing metro areas with roughly the same population, the Craigslist in the city with more "buzz" will get about 10 to 20 times the traffic as in the Rust Belt or Midwestern 'burg.
 elmwood
Joined: 2/21/2005
Msg: 10 (view)
 
Email policies on paid dating sites
Posted: 2/21/2005 2:30:12 PM
Match.com has a very clever filter.

In your first message to someone, if you put anything that looks like an e-mail address, or even words likee "yahoo" or "hotmail", it's filtered and changed your talkmatch.com address. You can send a real e-mail only after the person on the other end replies to your mail through talkmatch.com.

The only way around the filters is by using heavy munging - something like "namehere #t h0t mai| per1od c0m"
 elmwood
Joined: 2/21/2005
Msg: 18 (view)
 
Same people on sites across the board
Posted: 2/21/2005 2:17:10 PM
<-- on match.com too.

I do see women who ave had profiles on several sites (Match, Yahoo, JDate, and so on) for years. I'm surprised they would have so many online venues, since women in online daring services tend to get a _lot_ of e-mail from men; you would think that just subscribing to one service is enough.

Maybe they're just picky, and increasing their odds of meeting Mr. Perfect. Maybe they're looking for something different after seeing the same stale profiles over and over again. I don't know ... I would have to ask them.
 elmwood
Joined: 2/21/2005
Msg: 4 (view)
 
Match.com. A scam? (at least partially)
Posted: 2/21/2005 2:11:27 PM
When match.com added some features (instant rejection, block profile from search), they changed the displayed time period of the member's last activity. It used to include three weeks, one month, three months, and six months; now it just tops out at "more than three weeks."
 
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