Oh, I'll have something to say about this,.....after I calm down!

Just under a third (30.1 percent) of working wives in families with incomes in the top 20 percent of all families (not just married-couple families) brought home as much or more than their husbands did in 2008, compared to only one in eight (12.6 percent) in 1967. The trend is similar even among families with a child under age 6 in which nearly a third (28.0 percent) of working wives in the families in the top fifth bring home as much as or more than their husbands in 2008.

In the bottom 20 percent of income distribution of all families, over two-thirds (67.7 percent) of working wives brought home as much as or more than their husbands in 2008, up from 44 percent in 1967, while in the next 20 percent of income distribution half (49.2 percent) of working wives now bring home as much or more than their husbands, up from 28.3 percent in 1967.

">You've asked a few times for empathy/understanding of the male point of view from women. You don't see or acknowledge it when it happens - and it has happened more than a few times from a few different women. You've only notice/acknowledged thanked the female poster who COMPLETELY AGREES with you. Understanding another point of view does not automatically mean you agree with it.

Maybe a little more compassion/empathy/understanding from the male side wouldn't go amiss either.

However, it really comes down to the critter is growing inside the woman's body. Aborting or choosing full-term is a lot of risk for her, either way. I've seen both.

I don't think the onus belongs any where, individually. I think the whole thing belongs upon both involved people...

Men want an opportunity to influence the decision about what happens to THEIR potential offspring, and their life, as much as a woman.

ME TOO!!!!

....using abstinance as my method of birth control, it is effective for me because I happen to value self-control.

I understand the male point of view Levi, but I can only be sympathetic to a certain degree before my better senses kick in and remind me what a man's typical nature/attitude towards an unwanted child really is...............the evidence is well documented on this thread, in addition to what has transpired throughout history.

Of course they have a say. They are welcome to express their opinion. But honestly, this is like King Solomon. No one can have 'half' an abortion or "half' a pregnancy. So who is going to have the final say? Its that simple. It's not fair. But it's less unfair than the child not being taken care of, or a woman being forced to have an abortion or continue an unwanted pregnancy.

Yes throughout this thread it seems that men want it both ways. Many are complaining that they don't get to have a say in what happens in the case of an unwanted pregnancy, but what it comes down to is that Yes throughout this thread it seems that men want it both ways. Many are complaining that they don't get to have a say in what happens in the case of an unwanted pregnancy, but what it comes down to is that THEY want to have all of the say instead of the woman.

No, not fair. So the onus is really on the man to use protection, if he doesn't want a child. However, the thread's title asks if women are playing God when they become pregnant - and my answer is - it takes to for a woman to become pregnant.

3. After UNPROTECTED SEX by both parties,....

I think so too; especially since men value themselves by what they accomplish, often even more than women do.

I'm flattered I had such an impact. Thanks for the compliment.
You're just mad because I have no sympathy for women who meddler or play the victim for 20 years. Your thread is nothing more than a troll-pity post. Butt out.

Please provide some ways of illuminating to her what is going on here. Maybe people who have experienced this can explain to her how degrading this is.

I sure wouldn't want another to go through what I have.

But Levi....come on......this is the EASIEST thing in the entire world to AVOID......simply......DO NOT get married! Just draw the line and the sand and STICK TO IT!

I agree and I don't support these women. I never have and I never will.

What bothers me is some women who label me as cheap, misogynist, and not a REAL man because I refuse to enter into a relationship with a woman who doesn't pull her weight in all areas.

A sure way to stop this non-sense is for all sugar daddies to drop off the face of the earth, but then the forums would be flooded with "Where are all REAL men with balls?". Both men and women are responsible for this tripe because it takes two to tango. The man offers and the woman accepts. Remove one variable from that equation and it no longer works.

If a guy buys into a woman's belief that a REAL man provides, what do you think he will do?

Don't you see how the female advocates for financial inequality take shots at a man's ego to get what they want?

In my opinion, they are just as guilty as the guy who plays their game.

...that women who felt the need to say "I don't need a man" or "don't need a father" or "my kids come first" were mostly saying they were very picky and somewhat elistist in what they were seeking, and would not settle for anything other then mr rich, pretty, fabulous, etc etc. The walls they put up were obvious and seemingly angry ripples within their personalities, not just some reflection of past pains as another poster suggested.

I am sure he IS bipolar. I have seen him a couple of times lately acting decidedly manic. He is unstable.

At the same time I hate her, but I know I'll keep going back to her and I just can't let this go for some reason.

Anyway, men who are less educated or make less money tend not to want to date for the long-term. My other single friends find this to be true as well. Is it because the man needs to be the better provider? Why is it hard for some men to date women who have more education and possibly make more money? Is it just men of our generation or is it straight across the board, in your opinion?

What to do? Probably take a reprieve from it. Let her know that when she thinks she has closure and is ready to start a relationship then give you a call. Until then keep on fishin

at 3 months, you don't have THAT deep an investment timewise, and with limited visits, its to much drama for such a short period. unless she is committed to putting him in check, and has the ability to do so, there are other easier fish to catch, so you should not be lamenting so deeply about the one that got away.

BTW--neither the "approach" nor the "wait" have worked for me--is there a THIRD choice here? Please?!

I am very happy to be wrong from time to time. My ego and pride need the reminder.

In a relationship it doesn't matter to me who's right of wrong. As a whole, when one fails we both fail, when one achieves we both achieve. That connection as a whole makes me happy.

Apparently, we did make a dent on at least one woman...

" I drove my daughter back to BC today a few times... wow is it bad to notice how UNBELIEVABLE these college girls look?"