What is being discussed is that you say you have a method of measuring if a person is Christian or not.

The main point being, that measuring/ judging is not up to us. Judge not??? got a familiar ring?

I submit, its a paper thin argument that has no weight. Secondly, a Christian is a person professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus. A Christian manifests the qualities or spirit of Jesus and are Christlike. Showing a loving concern for others and are humane. Now based on this are you saying that anyone who knowingly was involved in causing the persecution and mass-murder of people are Christian? We know the measuring rod of how we can test a person as to whether they are Christian
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shame on you , service. never leave yourself open with a cliche they can nail you on...lol

Seems the measuring of souls is the job of higher powers according to bible, not to individuals who would like to take that job.

Not including atheists into the equation? Straw man arguement that doesn't merit further comment.

Or are you such an idea-twisting apologist that you can equate joblessness with the extirmination of 6 million people?

And he knew that those same protestants would have to be the ones to willingly usher the Jews to their deaths. Who else would do it? The Aryans?

"Just seems your opinion." I see...the shameless actions on record of Christians during the Holocaust affair is "opinion" .... so much for a reasonable debate.

Now I am blaming the Christian nations? America, i.e.? Complete hysterical assumption and delusion on your part.

I've already alluded to what I consider a Christian to be. Someone who, whatever the actual moral compass of their lives are, for better or worse, accept Jesus as their Saviour, worship in Church, have faith

Your analagous link with Paul is ridiculous…..

Again, your arguement is a dishonest and morally equivocating one: when a Christian does a good deed, you revere him or her, and praise Christianity for pointing the way; when a Christian tortures, mocks, and kills, you say they're automatically not a Christian. I don't accept that one-sided, free-pass theology.

It is at this point that I wonder why I spend time in a lengthy debate with one who either can't comprehend previous posts, or who is so blinded by an unquestionable one-sided faith in Christianity, that he willingly twists the simplest, the most basic of information I set out.

More atheist comments. See my first comment, and my very first post on this thread. Then add to it this: every single person on this Earth has the potential for evil, whether they are a Christian, Muslim, pagan, atheist, Buddhist, whatever...

You say there is a measuring rod for who is a Christian.
If so, Judgement Day will not be requiring the help of any power higher than grade school to weigh souls, a simple reading of this measuring rod you tell of will tell the tale, the rest is just a formality

You seem to be argueing on a technical detail, that wars-- Iran-Iraq, and Hitler's insanity-- that weren't started in the name of Christ therefore excuses Christians (or Muslims, or whatever is the ideology or religion of the day) from the complex unfolding of what goes on during those so-called "non-religious" wars. Again, it's a disingenuous approach.

Your approach fails even in this "letter but not spirit" of the discussion, anyway: as I've pointed out, anti-Semitism paved Hitler's way into power

so Christians played their very significant part as co-catalysts of the Nazi regime

If you listen to the totality of Hitler's furious podium tirades, his emotional constant was his hallucination of a mysterious "master Aryan race", blue eyes, blond hair, model looks, powerful build. I don't know about you, but I haven't seen too many blue-eyed, blond-haired Jews lately.

As to your arguement that "those weren't real Christians because they weren't peaceful, loving," etc.... sorry, but you can't have it both ways. When Christians undertake brave deeds, dispense forgiveness, contribute to a healthy civilization, I would agree that that is fantastic. Seriously. Bravo for them. When they persecute, or cynically allow,the persecution of innocents based on a difference in ethnic or religious affiliation, that is a root and direct religious/ethical choice. They are still Christians, and are responsible for their actions.

As for your equally facile comment that my arguement "has no weight", well.... if you can't refute any of the specific arguements here with a historical perspective-- not technical non-starters

I'd direct you to the historical record of the Holocaust story, as well as the long, sordid history of anti-Semitism as it first appears with the Church Fathers.

And to preclude the dismissal that any such history is from biased atheists, check out the ones from Catholic theologians, protestant ministers, and other non-denominational Christians.

Yes, Iraq started the eight year Iran-Iraq war, and although, technically, Saddam and his gang were secular, he cleverly, like a practised demagogue, needed something to fire up the scared, illiterate young troops-- hence the repeated calls of a "righteous" war, "God's call", and the like

(this in the context of your post, once again, where you lumped in "non"- religious conflict.)

As to your facile arguement that there were others-- atheists, non-Christian religionists amongst the German populace-- I submit, this is either an extremely ill-informed "creative" historical wrenching of the record, or it is disingenuous.

The religious roots in the Holocaust and the complicity of the church certainly put the lie in your statement that religion had nothing to do with WWII.

And the Crusaders didn't have the weapons available to them that we have now. Given the size of the population in those respective centuries , I think you're being just a tad on the naive side.

And the Iraq war? The Iran-Iraq war killed over a million people, dwarfing the U.S.-Iraq war.

Hitler was a madman, but "Christian" Germany either lined up as willing butchers, or looked on silently with nary a protest.

but at least there'd be no more religious violence.

I have a great wife, she is a complete knock out, goes to church every Sunday. I also have a great business and am lucky enough to travel and afford some of the upgrades in life. I can't figure out why I cheat with other women and some are dogs compaired to my wife. I don't know if this is a carried over problem from my old Girlfriend that never put out or if I have a major problem and need Help. Looking for some feedback...thanks...

True love unconditional love, (where Unconditional love is something that even dog can give.);

For the believers, why do you think non-believers & athiests pursue these discussions on the board?

Now, it just so happens that Nero Caesar has the Hebrew numeric value of,...you guessed it...666. So did Caligula

We are directly evolved from Proto-Humans, such as Australopithicus. Science can not tell us which Proto-Human species we are derived from, only which we are most likley derived from.

Evolution is just like a famly tree, begining with one a single anticedant, and ending in hundrends of familys. And just like any family tree, it can only be traced back so far before the evidence for predecesors is not there.

However, if the question you are asking is, DID a species like Lizards evolve into Birds, then that answer is yes. Birds evolved from Therapods, one of the Speices of Dinosouarids, which in turn evolved from Lizards. Lizards have evloved into Birds, but they could not do so again, even if they were to evlove into a species identicle to Birds they still would not be birds as they do not share the same ancestery.

Well don't some claim we evolved through the apes?


Actually ....no, this is a "strawman" fallacy .

"Well don't some claim we evolved through the apes?"

This is a comic book perception of a complex theory. Evolution states nothing of the kind. We share a common ancestor with apes, we are not evolved directly from apes.

The 666 is a time not a name. The antichrist will return to earth when the 6th seal ,6th vile, and 6th trump in Revelation have happened. Thats when Micheal boots satan out of heaven and he comes to earth claiming to be Christ. IMHO

dinosaur was not coined until the 1930's


Greek to me........

But why is it when someone treats you so horrible you still care for them?

Lies CONSTANTLY... Yells, Cusses, Has hit me, Punch's things (including car windshields before)

WHY ON EARTH DO I CARE????

I wish I could understand this!!!!!! I've read things to relax my self..... Tried to go running, take a nice warm bath, chilled in the hot tub..... I can’t get this off my mind.... I feel like I cant prevail over it!