online dating service
REGISTER | MAIL/PROFILE | HELP | NOW ONLINE | SEARCH | RATING | FORUMS | SUCCESS STORIES

 

     
Posted In Forum:
Home   login   MyForums  
Show ALL Forums  
 
 Author Thread: Have you ever fallen in love with a sociopath??
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 125 (view)
 
Have you ever fallen in love with a sociopath??
Posted: 11/23/2009 4:56:18 AM

Well, not their liver, the liver they bought at the store. I guess it belonged to them, as they paid for it. But man, who serves liver on the first date? Yuk!


That was actually pretty darn funny...

I wouldn't serve liver on the first date but hang around long enough and he'll get the tastiest liver 'n onions he EVER had...

Funny thought on this very serious thread cuz if I had a choice about eating raw liver and meeting a sociopath, I'd be into the raw liver so fast, his head would look like Linda Blair's in The Exorcist... Trust me, it would...
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 623 (view)
 
I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/23/2009 4:50:34 AM
Excellent post Silken Fire. I personally know of many women who profess their "Independence" whiles collecting alimony from some hard-working man. I totally agree that family law is heavily slanted in-favor of us women and I must say I am very surprised that nothing tangible has been done to rectify this. I recently met someone who is receiving child-support from 3 men for ONE (1) child. And this is right here in Toronto, Canada. And this woman has no shame talking about it...and she calls herself INDEPENDENT. Some crazy laws!


Thank you for your feedback Makeba...

I can also say that these so-called "independent" women who are living off the sweat from their ex's back, have some of the WORST entitlement attitudes I have EVER seen! They are unnecessarily rude, obnoxious, demanding and well... downright pathetic! I would feel sorry for them if they weren't so hard to gut when they walk through the doors of my law firm. Ugh!

I also don't understand how a woman can demand child support for a child who is not biologically the man's child. I know they can and I understand what the court is trying to say in that a man who acts as a father will be treated like a father in EVERY way BUT I think the legal system is failing in that respect. I don't think it's so much the legal system as much as it's the sociopathic governments who have simply washed their hands of single mother's and children's need for financial assistance. To them, it's not a "man's issue" or a "woman's issue" but rather a revenue-based issue. The question becomes how a woman could lower her dignity to the point that she refuses to acknowledge that very sizable discrepancy as to who the father actually is. When I was a single Mom with a child and not receiving a penny of child support, I STILL paid 2/3rds of the living expenses when I was living with a man. My pride would not allow me to be any other way.

I've had many days when I come home from work, sit down on the couch and just shake my head for a while...
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 49 (view)
 
Would a person who suffered a brain injury be a turn off for you?
Posted: 11/23/2009 4:32:02 AM
Yeah, someone with a language disorder may get frustrated (don't we all though?) but, they are more so frustrated at themselves for not being able to express what they wish to express.


This is so very, very true! My son-in-law would give anything to be able to keep up with other people as they walk or go about their days. He falls down quite frequently but just last winter, as he and my daughter exited their house and made their way down the hill toward their barn, she got ahead of him and turned to see where he was. As she watched, he fell and got up a number of times. She called out to ask him what he thought he was doing. He yelled back that he was "falling down". She told him to "quit fooling around cuz there was no one around to impress". This is standard fare between the 2 of them and it goes to show that a little patience and understanding goes a long long way... I admire the hell out of their love and dedication to one another.



At the end of the day, these people are human just like you and me. They are not a disorder they are a human being with a disorder. They are not schizophrenic, they are a person who has the illness schizophrenia. You don't call your friend "broken leg" because he broke his leg, you say, John has a broken leg. People really need to stop labelling people.

If you want a behaviour to come out in almost anyone, then, give them a label and it won't be long before they live up to that label.

Stop and think before you judge.. "would I appreciate being judged in this manner"?
I can guarantee you that, if I dug deep enough, I could find bad in everyone on the planet. Everyone has negative aspects of their lives. If people around us focus on those negatives, then of course, eventually, the negatives will be the forefront of the person.


I positively LOVED this Rustic... Beautifully said! Whew... just when we think there are no special men left in the world, a few of them show up! It's a beautiful thing!!!
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 122 (view)
 
Have you ever fallen in love with a sociopath?
Posted: 11/23/2009 4:01:18 AM

Cofuseing with a stalker. Stalkers are stalkers. Not neccesarily phycopaths. Don't mean they aren't but it don't mean they are. I personally have never stalked. Thats a waste of my time and effort on a person I'm never gonna get anything from. Atleast know what your talking about. Jesus


My name is not "Jesus" but thank you...

You can't "stalk" someone you're living with and in most cases, the sociopath refuses to leave until he's drained someone dry and decimated or completely destroyed their lives.

I can appreciate your limited understanding, from your side of this fence. Are you grandiose enough to think that ALL sociopaths are EXACTLY like you are?

If you're going to pretend to have an expertise regarding "phycopaths", you might at least, learn how to spell the word... It's "psychopath"... There ya go...
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 620 (view)
 
I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/23/2009 3:53:06 AM
When a guy or gal actively seeks to be a dependent and a stay-at-home spouse, they should do so knowing that there are consequences to their actions, and they will have little, if any employability skills, which will prove disaterous if there's a divorce and he/she has to enter the workforce to make ends meet. And they should live with that outcome if it materializes vice whining in court about how they lacked the fortitude to keep their eggs in multiple baskets. The same could be said for the provider about his/her choices, however the (reality) end result: The provider is held accountable under the law for the poor choices of both parties - not the dependent.


I quite agree with this ^^ and the common sense expressed in post #617...

Over the years of my legal career, I have seen a lot of big changes in the field of family law and one of the biggest changes has been the laws concerning spousal support.

However, we STILL have a lot of old-fashioned judges on the bench who consider alimony to be an "equalization" of the circumstances of the departing spouses. They consider it a partnership being split and dependent on any extranneous circumstances, usually split assets 50/50. The general consensus holds that if a man has "condoned" his wife's absence from the work place over several years that it is equivalent to his acceptance of having to pay alimony for at least, long enough for the dependent spouse to acquire the education necessary to get a decent job.

Unfortunately, with the tightening of judge's doling out alimony awards, I have seen many, MANY women claiming that they have a "medical disability" to ensnare a man into having to pay spousal support for the rest of his life. Equally unfortunate is the fact that most doctors will accept what his patient is telling him prima facie and most are very willing to endorse disability certificates that the dependent spouse will then put forward as evidence in divorce proceedings to support her claim for alimony. All the respondent can do is demand an independent medical examination and be willing to pay for the expert fees of having the specialist who performed the i.m.e. testify at trial. This is VERY expensive and many respondents who have already surrendered their half of the assets simply cannot afford it or just say, to hell with it, to avoid the expense of a trial.

I do NOT believe in alimony, nor do I believe that any woman should completely surrender her career or advancement in her education on the basis that she will be financially supported for the rest of her life. Once the kids are in school, there isn't one good reason (other than genuine medical disability) for anyone to let go of their personal responsibility to advance themselves and keep up with the changes in whatever careers they have suspended.

I think that alimony, save for the period of time it takes for a dependent spouse to get back up and ride, is actually demeaning to a person's personal pride and I would like to see it almost completely abolished.
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 120 (view)
 
Have you ever fallen in love with a sociopath?
Posted: 11/23/2009 2:53:32 AM

Sociopaths have no conscience or empathy. They need people with a conscience and empathy to carry out their schemes and exert control. Call it a parasite/host relationship.

Using myself as an example, in my profession, deep and real empathy is essential to success, but it can be a hindrance and even a fault with people who are highly skilled at using it against me. My conscience doesn't let me get away with anything. She used that fact to literally play on my own conscience and twist my natural sense of responsibility and accountability to her advantage too many times and in too many ways to list. She used my natural, deep-running empathy in the same manner -- hundreds of times.

A conscience and strong empathy are two key levers a sociopath will use against a victim. If what you've said about yourself is true -- that you're a sociopath -- then you know what I have just said is true about how you get your hooks into people and how you use their own attributes against them.


VERY well said Openheart!!!


Many times and every long term relationship I have ever had the woman was just like me. IMO we attract one another. I have interests in short term relationships with normal women not long term ones. If you have a relationship with a person you believe is like this and it lasted a longer period of time than a year. I'd honestly say chances are your one too.


I find this a very interesting deflection you are using as a self-confessed sociopath or is it some kind of justificati0n for some of a sociopath's more torturous behaviors?

Sociopaths have interests in "short term relationships with normal women" because that is all any reasonably intelligent person takes to figure out that they're sociopaths. I see that you're calling this your province of control but the reality is, that it isn't.

To say that any person who has been in a relationship with a sociopath for longer than a year is also likely a sociopath signifies the huge denial most sociopaths live within. The fact is that many sociopaths refuse to go away and it takes the entire legal system to get them to go away. Sometimes, even the legal system fails. By the time a more sophisticated sociopath leaves their target alone, they have already levelled them emotionally, financially and in every other way a human being can be scrunched into the dirt. It's pretty damn hard to leave when you've lost your job because a sociopath has conducted a smear campaign that resulted in your employer having concerns for the safety of all of their employees or when a sociopath has cut your brake lines and smashed up your one vehicle. It's even harder to leave when he or she has threatened to harm your children. That doesn't make the target a sociopath... It makes the target a "victim" and when they do successfully make their escape, it makes them an enormously strong "survivor".

Britpup... You MUST be completely "no contact" in order for the craziness to stop and the fact that you accepted her call is worrisome to those of us who know what you're going through. "No contact" means absolutely NO contact... I hope you will make that happen!
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 5 (view)
 
bi man marrying women
Posted: 11/23/2009 1:23:18 AM

Men are usually thrilled to find out their GFs are bisexial; women are often much less enthusiastic.


^^You can say that again! ^^

I would have no interest in a relationship with a bisexual male because I would know that he needed to be sexual with another person. I also have no interest in open relationships. I'm strictly a one-man woman and I have no desire to be anything else.

Life is complex enough in my view. Simple works for me.
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 104 (view)
 
Have you ever fallen in love with a sociopath??
Posted: 11/22/2009 9:25:57 AM
How do you know you're dating or in love with one? Some are really good at covering it up...or do they pick people who can't tell?


Time is your only friend when you've had the misfortune to meet a sociopath. Many of them are polished, charming and ever-so-good at shape-shifting. While you have been busy building your spirit, character, memories and experience bank throughout your lifetime, the sociopath has been busy learning how to "look human". The minute you fall in love with one, you earn their contempt for being a caring person. That is who they zero in on... People who are NOT judgmental... People who are compassionate... People who are in decently-waged professions (most of them can't hold a job because they don't like authority and want to have control of every aspect of their lives)... People who have a great deal to lose and lots in their lives that they care about... These are the type of people sociopaths target and they have the ability to make that loving, gentle, soft-hearted person feel like a complete moron for being a good human being.

There ARE some significant red flags. Often, they will try to RUSH their target into a relationship with enormous amounts of flattery. They will push to know about every single thing that matters to you... They will appear to be very masculine and protective while prying at you to tell you what has hurt you in your life (finding your soft spots). They will appear very loyal to you while denigrating your friends and family at every opportunity. They often have heart-wrenching sob stories of their own to tell about all the heartache and misery every single one of their exes have put them through and they will appear to want nothing more than to love or be loved in the beginning. They will often become incensed at any questioning you do about themselves but stop at nothing with their own questioning...

When you are high on the pedestal they've placed you on, there will come a day when they will suddenly blast you off there with horrible cruelty and in your shock, you will have a hard time processing what has happened. If you object, they will begin to terrorize you and it won't stop until they decide to stop OR you manage to disappear completely. Many targets won't disappear because the threats are toward their families, jobs, property... anything and everything the target ever cared about. After the target truly grasps that the sociopath will do exactly what he threatens to do, many people end up being traumatized over and over and over again until their brains are too frozen in terror to be able to process anything.

Time and detachment are your only friends at the beginning of any relationship but once you have told him what you care about with any kind of detail at all, he has you and he's going to wring the life-blood out of you if he can.

It's a terrible, terrible thing. The stats report the amount of women (not saying this doesn't happen to men btw) who are murdered by sociopaths but they don't report the amount of suicides that happen when a woman feels there is no way out of a relationship with a sociopath. If they would just disappear or a person could kick them to the curb, that would be fine... But many refuse to go and that's where you find out how the legal system works and where it completely fails.
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 18 (view)
 
Would a person who suffered a brain injury be a turn off for you?
Posted: 11/20/2009 9:52:44 PM
My son-in-law suffered a severe head injury in a bad car accident when he was 10 years old. The morning of the motor vehicle accident, he had complained to his Mom about soreness under the arms. His injuries were so severe that he literally amazed the doctors by surviving the accident for more than 48 hours although he remained in a coma for 10 months. They discovered that his soreness under the arms was Hodgkins Lymphoma and while he recovered from the accident, he was also forced to undergo radical chemotherapy treatments. His father was decapitated in the accident and he also went through the grief process when he awoke from his coma. He is now 35 years old, mobile with the exception of some paralysis in his left side and prone to mood swings. Prior to the accident, he had been of university-level genius. After the accident, his amnesia left him floundering for information.

I have to tell you OP that for all the years I've been walking this earth, I have never met such a beautiful (inside and out) person as my son-in-law. He has a spiritual vitality that shines from deep in his eyes and he's always laughing about something. He has been the only Dad my grandson has ever known for 7 years now and he has an uncanny ability to share my grandson's world. As a partner to my daughter, I could hope for no one better. We all "slow down" for him with a great deal of appreciation that he's even with us after all that he has been through. I admire and respect his "uncommon valour"...

As a result of knowing and loving my son-in-law, I have become a better person and I think everyone who knows him would say that... He is a blessing to our family and if I could meet someone like him, I would feel even more blessed to slow down to share the special loving qualities of someone who has perhaps, already touched heaven but came back to share it with us. They are more than worth our having to slow down or perhaps, rewind from time to time.
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 6 (view)
 
How to tell a woman to start paying for part of the date
Posted: 11/19/2009 10:39:54 PM

Well, if what you expect in a relationship is that, eventually, you both start chipping in equally, then I would think it's an important discussion to have. If she expects a relationship with a guy who will always pay for everything, then it's best you find out sooner than later.

For instance, if you want to make a movie date, you can call her up and say "I'll get the tickets and you can buy the food." If she balks at the suggestion, then it's clear she's not the woman for you.


Well said PirateJohn...

It's rather appalling that you should have to say anything at all to her about contributing her share to your dates. If you are interested in having a REAL partner, you might want to avoid women with entitlement attitudes...
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 6 (view)
 
why do people feel like they need someone in their life .
Posted: 11/19/2009 8:05:45 AM
... nope, too late, I hear the pitter-patter of ickle female feetsies rushing over here to correct you....


Hmmm... I'm surprised you could hear the pitter-patter over the thunder of your own clodhoppers racing to get in here FIRST...

OP... A lot of women in our generation were raised to feel rather "invisible" unless we were doing something for somebody. Sometimes, if you look back into your childhood, (and especially if you were from a sizable family) you might be able to recall feeling that your worth as a REAL woman was to be needed by a man. It's a conditioned response...

The fact is that many of us have managed to identify our previous need for validation by way of our being "human doings" instead of "human beings". Many of us have come to the blessed conclusion that it's much better to simply be wanted for who we are rather than needed for what we can do... not unlike many men.
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 11 (view)
 
Confused by my hormones - having sex with boyfriend for first time
Posted: 11/19/2009 7:44:30 AM
Thank you for your further information OP...


You're right Silken, it would probably help to have more information. It's not that I have been waiting... there was never an opportunity. I was overweight and unhappy up until this year. I hid behind my weight, and didn't date. At all. I have since lost almost 40 pounds and am still losing (he knows this), and I feel like a whole different person. I am happy, and confident, and finally feel pretty and sexy, so for me to even have a boyfriend is a huge step.


I've known women who were overweight for a lengthy period of time, lost the weight but failed to adjust how they saw themselves. Even slimmed down, they still saw themselves as being "too heavy" and unattractive. Unfortunately, the weight discrimination and rejections that heavy people suffer through the years, leave their marks... however subconsciously they might exist.

You might want to visit a counselor who could now help you lose the weight you may still be carrying inside your mind that might consist of a fear of rejection, high anxiety or just a good old-fashioned panic attack at the wrong moment.


I do live with my parents for a few reasons. I moved back from my second time at college, and have been working part time. I could move out, but they are happy having me home, and let me live rent free for a while to save up my money before I move out again (and also hopefully find full time work so I don't have to move back home for a third time.)


Many of us have reservations about making love in our parents' home... It just feels "wrong" somehow. This might be a contributing factor together with the fact that it just feels a lot more grown-up to be in your own home or at very least, geographically removed from one's parents.


Plus, my mouth is so dry after he goes down on me... I breath through my mouth too much and I'm all cotton-mouthed... I don't know much, but I know that's not good.


Keep a glass of water on your bedside table and reach for it as needed. A hot cup of coffee can leave you with an ultra-warm mouth (if you get my drift)...

Good luck to you in this OP!
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 7 (view)
 
Confused by my hormones - having sex with boyfriend for first time
Posted: 11/19/2009 7:11:55 AM

Oh,paleeease................Op's NOT on here to find some old dude her father's age.


The OP is 28 years old. A 35 or 40 year old is not "her father's age"...
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 5 (view)
 
Confused by my hormones - having sex with boyfriend for first time
Posted: 11/19/2009 7:05:45 AM
I thought this thread must surely have been started by a very young woman but I see that you are 28 years old. Since few women are virgins at 28 years of age, I wonder what your reason was for "waiting" all these years and whether or not, it's the underlying reason for your hesitancy?

You say:


"Tonight is the night. I have the house to myself...


Are you living with your parents at this age? Or someone else???


I'm not on birth control yet, he has condoms.


NOT good enough. Condoms break, fall off, get holes in them... You should be going to your doctor long before you decide to make love so that there are no accidental pregnancies.

Whatever your hesitancy is about, it appears to be of long standing. Without knowing what your background is and how you remained a virgin until 28 years of age, I don't think any of us can be of much help.
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 9 (view)
 
Should I hang in there
Posted: 11/19/2009 12:55:47 AM
He sounds to me like someone who is just casting to see what might bite like a lot of married folks do here...

When someone tells you that you're "better off" without them, you should believe them. They are the authority on themselves!

If you're hanging in there and hoping he will come around, I suspect you're going to regret it if he does. Forget him and move on.
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 18 (view)
 
Wants to know about past relationship
Posted: 11/18/2009 11:48:57 PM
I don't think it's all that unusual for a new person in your life to wonder about the guy who left via squad car rather than departing normally from a relationship but since he has also been to jail, I doubt that the negative vibes you are feeling having anything to do with either of their criminal backgrounds. Most ex-cons are pretty accepting of one another.

I have to wonder tho', why, when you have children, you aren't a little bit concerned about the similar histories in the guys you choose to date? Having a criminal record can impose a lot of limitations on a person's ability to go forward in life and it also affects the people around them.

Does this not bother you?
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 6 (view)
 
Dumped/Back together advice ???
Posted: 11/17/2009 7:28:57 PM

So to make a long story short, my girlfriend started fishing and when she found herself a prospect, she told me that we were done. Her issue was around the fact that she didnt feel that we had an emotional attachment and it was not something that wasnt discussed before the breakup.


That's a pretty valid reason for splitting up. If feelings have failed to deepen over the period of one year, it makes sense to go your separate ways.


After she broke up with me I gave her a call and we ended up having a conversation about the problem. She indicated that she did not love me after seeing me for a year. To tell you the truth, I did not think I loved her either until we had ended our relationship. I opened up to her and shared my feelings and she wanted to give it another try even though she indicated that she wasnt in love with me. She though I was a great guy with tons of good qualities.


That's a pretty strange reason for getting back together. You're not exactly young kids who might not be able to recognize feelings so if you both believed that you were not in love with one another, what was to be gained by getting back together?


Now that we are back together and going strong, I cant seem to get over the fact that she dumped me and was out fishing around behind my back. Its not that Im feeling insecure, its the fact that I no longer trust her. She has had issues with breaking up with other boyfriends in the past and seeing/sleeping with other men then getting back together.


I find that the first criteria in being able to trust someone else is being able to trust myself. Since your profile makes no mention of being in a relationship and indicates that you are actively seeking dates on a dating website, it isn't surprising that you can't trust her. You aren't giving yourself much reason to trust yourself. Why should she be trustworthy when you don't seem to be?

Personally, I think that only fools stumble over what is behind them. You should not have tried to get back together before you examined these questions and made decisions you could live with.

These are my thoughts... for your consideration.
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 10 (view)
 
school first or relationship first?
Posted: 11/17/2009 4:00:09 PM
I heartily recommend that you follow your career aspirations - particularly since you already have a child or children to support (according to your profile). Regardless of anything else that goes wrong in your life, you will not have the problems of financial dependency further complicating your choices.

You haven't known this man nearly long enough to allow either him or the POTENTIAL of a good relationship with him (which is all you have with him at this point) to influence your decision to pursue the higher education that will see you through the ups and downs of life.

Truly loving someone means being committed to them regardless of the challenges you face together. Anything less, is not worthy of your time or your future investment.
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 2 (view)
 
Painfull lonelyness
Posted: 11/17/2009 3:18:45 PM
OP... Your profile states that you are "living together" which normally means you are in some kind of common-law situation which makes your post here very confusing.

At 19 years of age, some confusion with high emotion is pretty normal. Generally, it means that you are given to putting all of your eggs in one basket. You obviously see a relationship with someone as being the path to your happiness but are you aware of how much work, dedication and commitment is actually involved in having a "good" relationship?? In order to even be capable of loving someone else, you MUST be able to love yourself and in order to be able to love yourself, you need to understand yourself. You need to know what caused your addictions which were, in essence, times where you took "vacations" from your own best interests. You need to explore the reasons for not getting into a higher form of education to be able to earn a lucrative career. You need to examine the things you love in this life and how to build yourself into a vital, self-sufficient woman who is capable of "choosing" a good partner. Above all else, you need to know yourself and why you do what you do.

You have some "magical thinking" about relationships going on and you are going to be very disappointed if you continue to think that a relationship will "fill the void" in your life. Literally, EVERY question about yourself that remains unanswered when you go into a relationship, will be waiting for you when you come out of that same relationship. And when you have your answers and you are working hard to be all that you can be, then and only then will you be able to truly love someone else.

Have patience. This is a process and your own contributions to your own self-esteem will pay off if you focus on building you...
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 52 (view)
 
I can't take this anymore!
Posted: 11/17/2009 2:37:30 PM

I've worked with abuse victims for years. I've worked with mentally ill, rape victims, and just violent people, men and women. I've seen court cases and results and broken homes. I've also learned a few things in my day.


You've worked with abuse victims??? After reading your message in #34, I can only guess that you were a maintenance man or a janitor who just happened to listen in on a few conversations. There is NO WAY that a person with your attitude would be allowed to counsel abuse victims in even the most minimal cases.


Children of single mothers account for almost 80% of the prison population.


Do you not think the absence of the father MIGHT have something to do with this??


There are always two sides to a story.


Actually... there are usually three sides to a story... His, hers and the truth!


The victim is almost always also the aggressor.


May we see where you got this nugget of information? I personally can't wait...


99% of the people in these relationships will make the story worse in order to get your sympathy.


That's pure B.S. if I've ever heard it!!! If anything, most spouses in domestic violence cases are far too protective of their marriages (for various reasons) and will go so far as to minimize what the abuser has done to them or even, lie for them. Very few people enjoy pity unless they have Munchausen's by Proxy Syndrome...

You can stop your attempts to re-victimize the victims just about anytime!
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 51 (view)
 
I can't take this anymore!
Posted: 11/17/2009 2:19:28 PM
If I was in your position at this point in time, I would be making an appointment to see my lawyer and asking him/her to reduce the fees they've charged on their previous bills. $400 an hour for office time is outrageous. I can understand a lawyer charging that amount for trial time but for office time, it's excessive. I've never worked for a lawyer who doesn't have two rates in my 24 years in law. Most will charge $300 to $400 an hour for court time and half of that for office time.

If you can't get the lawyer to adjust his accounts, you have the right within a certain period of time to have his account "taxed" or "reviewed" by the Registrar at your local court registry. You will need to file an Notice of Appointment for Assessment and attach the various Statements of Account you have received from this lawyer and in due course, a hearing will be held. The Law Society will not take an interest in this matter because it is quite likely that you signed a Solicitor's Retainer Agreement wherein you agreed to pay $400 an hour for his work.

The Registrar will ensure that you are being appropriately billed and if he deems that you are not, he will adjust the account(s).

Lawyers do NOT like this process and will often adjust their accounts to avoid it. Should your lawyer refuse to adjust his fees, you may need to tell him that this is the next step you will take. It may "inspire" him to adjust your account.

Secondly, separation agreements are not mandatory if you're filing for divorce. They are used to clarify the intention of the parties and to reduce court time but as I understand your provincial laws, they are not a must-have. You can make an application for divorce that includes your various claims and you would file your Affidavit within the next days. You can, after the application is filed, bring on a Notice of Motion for temporary orders for child support, spousal support, custody, visitation, interim possession or sale of the matrimonial home, a freeze order preventing disposal of assets and so on. You should also be filing a Certificate of Litigation Pending in the Land Titles Registry to inform prospective purchasers that the land is involved in litigation. When you're making an application for divorce, you can ask for a fee waiver form that you would fill out to request that the filing fees be waived due to your financial hardships.

You don't HAVE to have a lawyer to prepare your documentation. In most registries, the clerks are quite helpful because many people elect to represent themselves. I wouldn't recommend that you not have a lawyer because it appears that your issues are somewhat complex BUT you need to have one that will be reasonable in his fees and expedite your getting where you need to go with all this.

If I were you, I'd be filing for divorce and getting a Chamber's application underway. It shouldn't take any more than a couple of weeks to get before a Chambers master or judge for your temporary orders.

Good luck to you!
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 7 (view)
 
No-one likes him except me
Posted: 11/17/2009 3:30:00 AM
It's a bit strange that he is receiving E.I. after "quitting" his job. Normally, E.I. won't pay benefits to someone who voluntarily quits their position for less than a solid reason. And... I have to ask... is he looking for work? That's also one of the conditions to receive EI - that the person receiving the benefits be actively looking for work.

No one with any kind of sense, quits a $30 per hour job and then travels to Kelowna where 200 people line up for every single job. I know people who have had to sell everything they own to move from Kelowna because the economy is so very poor there with seriously low wages and the "sunshine tax". Most people go there to party a while and then, return to their home town.

It strikes me that what your family is seeing is his instability. If he is older than you, then normally, in his stage of life, he would be a lot less inclined to ditch a good job and take off without substantial reason. Everyone who lives in Kelowna knows that it is next to impossible to find a good job there.

Your family is likely very concerned that he seems so unsettled. It could be that they sense he's flighty and that when he suddenly takes off, that you will be hurt.

I'm just guessing obviously but I do think you need to pay attention to these things if you're considering getting serious about this man.
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 5 (view)
 
Is This a Good Reason For a Husband to Leave?
Posted: 11/17/2009 2:30:53 AM
I have to wonder if you and your husband ever sat down to discuss the various options that might have brought about a resolution of your issue regarding your eldest son?? So many people just get stuck in one mindset and it's the inability to work through conflict that is the real dealbreaker.

If your son was making $9.00 per hour, he would likely have enough to be able to "share accommodations" with others his age that would make his independent living affordable. Was it the case that if he was being trained to cook, he would not be earning his wage? You don't give much detail. Were you working and willing to assume the financial responsibility for supporting your children or were you looking to your husband to support them? Is their biological father paying child support for either or any of them?

On one hand, your husband married you knowing that you have children and I think where someone marries someone with children, they need to accept that there are times when the parent may need to "help". On the other hand, I think the parent should be taking the full financial responsibility for "helping" their own children and it would not be fair to assume that the stepfather should do so.

I have to agree that it sounds like there is a lot more to this story than meets the eye. Your husband may be feeling unfairly weighed down and/or that he has "no say" in your marital decisions. If that's possible, you may want to seek some counselling.

However, his leaving and taking ALL of the money from your joint account doesn't speak well for his love for you. Decent people don't leave their partners in the dirt.

Without knowing the details, it is hard to actually address the situation you're in.

Good luck with your move!
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 506 (view)
 
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 11/15/2009 1:06:31 AM
1. In the story, he had had the vasectomy for a while, got a test to prove that he was sterile at the time of the pregnancy, used condoms each time when having sex with the woman, and the woman slept with someone else.


He did NOT write that he "got a test to prove that he was sterile at the time of the pregnancy".

We all know that condoms break, slide off and are sometimes put on a bit late when there has been pre-ejaculate.

He "claims" she had another lover.

The above 3 facts indicate that either you didn't read the story with careful thought OR you focussed on being able to backup your contention that women are prone to deceit. Can you do math better than you read? If 3.7 % of women have "deceived" men, it means that a rather huge majority have not... right???

When do we get to talk about how many women help their husbands pay their child support when a new youngun suddenly surfaces a few years into the marriage or even, when they're there to begin with?

Where did you get such a bad attitude toward women at your young age?

Sheesh...
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 497 (view)
 
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 11/14/2009 10:46:36 PM
Speaking of irrelevant stories, here's one:

http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sea/274495936.html

It's approx 1000 words long and a decent read, but I'll summarize it here.


I just read the story you left the link for on msg. 498. That baby very well could have been his. Link and relevant paragraph as follows:

http://familydoctor.org/online/famdocen/home/men/reproductive/195.html#ArticleParsysMiddleColumn0012

Will the vasectomy work right away?
No. You'll need to ejaculate as many as 15 to 20 times before the sperm will be cleared from both the vas deferens. For that reason, keep using birth control. Your doctor will ask you to bring in samples of your ejaculation after the operation. Only after you have 2 sperm-free samples will you be considered unable to get a woman pregnant. This may take 3 months or longer.

The man in your Craigslist story went to get tests for his sterility/fertility 3 months after his vasectomy. She had already been pregnant awhile. It's entirely possible that when she conceived, he was still fertile.

There was a huge case that went to the Supreme Court of Canada where the litigants were comprised of a man who had a vasectomy and his wife who became pregnant afterward as against the doctor who did the vasectomy and his insurers. The marriage had almost split up because the husband had accused his wife of infidelity. The decided after a paternity test determined that he was actually the father, to sue the doctor for the total expenses of having to raise the unexpected baby. They received a nominal damages amount but nowhere near what they were claiming. The value of a child's life was determined in that decision which was why it went to the Supreme Court.


Now, why is this story irrelevant? Because it resorts to emotional appeal and has no logical backing.

Similar to the stories that some other woman posted about how bad women have it.


Your post fails to prove anything... Without an actual paternity test after that baby was born, the possibility of his being a father still remains. Speaking of "emotional appeal and no logical backing"... ahem...

Sorry..
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 47 (view)
 
When do I ask again, or do I?
Posted: 11/14/2009 5:27:07 PM

I'm really feeling like the fool.
As time ticks by, I'm increasingly suspicious. It is 2:20 in the afternoon in Melbourne.
No phone call. No message to set up a time for her to call.
I feel like I've been played like a cheap violin and I keep going out of tune.
I feel like writing her and telling her how I feel, but I know better.
This is hurting.


This made me feel unusually sad for you OP. I'm so sorry for your disappointment...

Strangely enough, I was kinda hoping this one would work out... I guess we all want to believe in the magic huh???
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 478 (view)
 
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 11/14/2009 5:13:56 PM
It's not the family doctors that perform tubals, it's the surgeons / obstetricians. She merely called around to several clinics / doctors before finding one that was willing to do it.


You have to be referred to a specialist such as an ob by your family physician and I doubt that her family doctor would have run the gamut for her after the first few refusals.

It doesn't matter that I don't believe you... I'm just saying... I don't.
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 476 (view)
 
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 11/14/2009 4:50:55 PM

There are no legal guidelines for tubal, but many doctors will refuse to perform it on women under 25:


What you've just said in your post doesn't even make sense. You say that your girlfriend had to go from doctor to doctor to doctor being told "no" but that this doesn't mean that it can't be done?

Here in BC, there has been a serious shortage of doctors for a few years now and many people are without family doctors because of it. I'm sorry but I don't believe that your girlfriend went from doctor to doctor under these conditions. It can be hell even getting in to see ONE doctor out here!

What did she do? Run from one walk-in clinic to another???

In further answer to your post, I will say that what is "law" and what is doctors protecting themselves from future litigation are 2 entirely different things. If she found one who didn't care, he was the exception and not the rule.
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 469 (view)
 
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 11/14/2009 4:28:22 PM
Regarding my girlfriend, she is 23 and had a tubal litigation at 21. I assure you it is quite possible to get such an operation, where I live (city of Vancouver in Canada) at least. Not sure about other place.


I can't speak for your girlfriend's medical situation but I can tell you that it certainly was NOT true for my 23 year old daughter. She was denied a tubal ligation based on her age. She is also here in BC. I am wondering if that wasn't true for your girlfriend because she has some sort of medical condition that would make pregnancy difficult for her.

It should also be noted that when I had said daughter all those years ago, I had to have my husband give his consent for me to have a tubal. And... when my daughter was requesting same, she also was asked if she had a husband because if she did, he would have to consent to the procedure.

Speaking of medical procedures that women have undergone re procreation, it wasn't too terribly long ago that a woman being advised to have a hysterectomy was told to ALWAYS get a second medical opinion because physicians were routinely performing them for almost any reason at all. The word "hysterectomy" means "to remove hysteria" and the operation was performed ostensibly because it was believed that this was one way to calm a woman down.

~ Ahem ~
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 3 (view)
 
Friend can be an Embarrassment
Posted: 11/13/2009 7:39:27 AM
I think you need to tell your friend exactly what you've told us... That it causes you discomfort and embarrassment for him or her to be crude around other people and out in public and that his or her behavior is causing you this dilemma.

Good friends would shudder at the idea of embarrassing their friends. They should also be people you can speak your mind with. Since you've hedged at it already, you need to be a lot more direct and tell them that it really IS causing you a big problem with planning the upcoming party.

If this person gets into a snit about it, let them walk away and think about whether or not they value your friendship. If it doesn't flow both ways, it's no good anyway.
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 22 (view)
 
Should a potential LTR's FAMILY BACKGROUND make a difference?
Posted: 11/12/2009 2:51:49 PM

I would even take this a little bit further and speculate that adversity could have been the catalyst that sparked their greatness. Whether or not childhood trauma can be overcome is strictly up to the individual. As with any prejudice, it is unfair to adversely judge a specific group of people based upon preconceived notions.


Well said FB!

Given a choice between a wealthy prospective partner who was "born into" his wealth and a hard-working blue collar guy who has had to climb over some obstacles to develop his character and integrity, I will take the blue collar guy any day of the week! Not only have a lot of people from poor backgrounds developed the extra characteristics of having the strength and backbone to get through trying times but they usually have a far superior sense of humor since they understand the enormous survival value of humor and good old-fashioned playfulness.

I've had my share of offers from stiff-necked stuffshirts with elitist, arrogant attitudes about who everyone else is in relation to themselves and quite frankly, I couldn't even imagine sharing their cold and well-marbled lives. UGH!

OP... from reading your posts, I have to say that I think you have a bit of a "Messiah" complex. It appears that you rush in where angels fear to tread. This isn't at all about "background" but rather, about your own need to feel needed and perhaps, using your own "class" to your advantage. If you can't recognize a hard-working lady by now, perhaps you need to take a second look at your own "vision".
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 22 (view)
 
When do I ask again, or do I?
Posted: 11/12/2009 1:55:24 PM
OP... I'm glad to see in your reposts that you are going to slow this down a mite. I don't mean to "spit on your spirit" but you have to know by now that there is a BIG... no... a HUGE difference between "infatuation" and "love". As I've said before on these forums, people get infatuated (or "fall in love) for 2 reasons... (1) They are relieved at the thought of their own loneliness finally going away and at the thought of having someone to share their lives with, and (2) they are sexually attracted to someone's looks and personality. Their hard-wiring has kicked in. Unfortunately, to have the kind of love that would be worthy of a huge move, you actually have to "fall out of love" in order to obtain the kind of genuine love that is capable of handling the ability to fall in and out of love with someone through the years. This is the ONLY kind of love that is worthy of a move overseas or even, getting your hopes up. At this point in time, you do not "know" this lady and cannot know this lady from such a distance in a way that lets you go from infatuation to genuine love. How on earth are you going to do that???

Even over a webcam, you can't know whether or not what she tells you about her own values are actually "values" that she lives by or rather, "ideals" that she hopes to someday live up to. It's only in sharing one another's lives from day to day that any of us can come to believe in what others have to say about themselves.

I think your relief at finding someone who "says" they can accept you, warts and all, is more about your own apparent harshness with whatever your past contains than it is reality-based. That, and the magical thinking that you can actually have that "one love in a lifetime" suddenly appear at the age of 57, appears to be clouding your better judgment. Real love takes time, actual verified knowledge about the other person and knowing precisely who you are committing to...

If nothing else, you need to give this lots and lots of time... Good luck to you!
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 59 (view)
 
Living expenses and pride..
Posted: 11/12/2009 12:03:37 PM
OP... I am not going to climb on board to lambaste you for your decision because I realize that it's not going to help you to "see" what many of the other posters are trying to help you "see". You are indeed making financial decisions with your heart and I understand this because I have done it too. At the time that you allowed this person to move in, you were struggling mightily with your expenses and your loneliness so you were thinking you could, at very least, cut down on the loneliness that made everything else so much worse. Am I right? All of the things that you have listed that he does for you, are things that previously increased your burdens?

You decided to charge him $400 per month which is a rather paltry sum and that tells me that you are actually paying him for whatever he does by way of not having him pay for his actual living expenses, with the exception of the $400. For example, if his living expenses would actually be $1400.00 per month (rent, utilities, food, clothing, transportation etc.), but you are only charging him $400, you are actually paying him $1000 per month for what he does (or $1400 when he doesn't pay the $400 you originally requested) for you around the house and for your family and friends. Do you see that??

The question becomes... Do you have an extra $1400 to spend? Really?

I read in your posting history that you have not asked for child support help from your daughter's father and that you have no savings, college fund for your daughter or anything else. You are working 2 jobs at a time in your 14 year old daughter's life when she needs EXTRA vigilance and supervision. (The owies she gets now are far worse than those of her childhood, as you likely know.) Your "pride" is costing you big bucks and I would venture to guess that if we included your child support forfeiture, the numbers would grow exponentially.

It's wonderful to be in a position to be able to afford such generosity but the problem is, you aren't in that position. That's the reality of the whole situation. The person who REALLY need the break, was YOU... not him! You are giving him a break but... where's yours??? He's an unemployed single man who is receiving EI benefits from an ironworker's wages which means they are likely more than adequate for him to actually be able to pay his real share. You are a single Mom who is working 2 jobs to pay for everybody while forfeiting the time you need to be there for your teenage daughter. So, the question you need to ask yourself is: "Would he stay with me if I asked him to pay a 1/3rd of the full living expenses here?" What would your answer to that question be? If you know in your heart that he would go, then you can't avoid the fact that you are paying for your companionship and the question becomes whether or not you (1) feel that you must "buy" his love and (2) you can afford to pay for what should rightfully be free-flowing from a man who knows he is with a struggling single mom.

The bottom line here is that there are agencies which would help with your mom's care and it was up to your niece to find a way to move. Single parents simply cannot afford the kind of generosity you appear to want to be capable of... If your answer to the question about whether or not he would be there if he had to pay his full share is "no", then you would need to ask yourself why you feel you can dispense with financial prudence when you so obviously, should not be doing so AND your reasons to have self-esteem at the same time.

When you are in your 50's and struggling to keep going because you're overtired and the stress has played hell on your health, you will be drenched in regret for the "pride" that cost you so very much over the years. When you can't afford to help your daughter with the expense of higher education, you will privately have to stomp on your own anguish. When you turn around and you are alone anyway because he was just there for the "good deal", you will wonder what you were ever thinking to have reduced yourself to someone who had to pay for companionship.

The expense to you is far greater than the $400 per month. It is about your future and whether or not you will EVER be able to recoup these forfeited monies. I doubt that you will but even worse, is the loss of reasons for you to believe in your own value. It is what WE do that gives us the basis for our self-esteem. As long as you are making sacrificial decisions, you will not be able to develop your self-worth.

Don't do it. Just don't do it....
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 13 (view)
 
Man-shy
Posted: 11/11/2009 8:24:51 PM
Have you ever heard the expression "shyness hides a great vanity" OP? What it means is that people become shy when they think that everyone is going to notice absolutely everything they are, do and say. The reality is that most people are so concerned with their own worlds, they won't even notice if you screw up.

If you're approaching a beautiful woman, all you need to do is smile and tell her you'd like to get to know her. Skip all the "lines" that can actually turn people off.

Just... do it.
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 29 (view)
 
Addicted
Posted: 11/11/2009 8:02:42 PM
Stop messing around OP. You don't trust this guy and maybe, you really shouldn't. It's entirely beneath your dignity to have to play these stupid mind games with someone instead of acting on the knowledge that you deserve to be with someone you can trust because he behaves in a trustworthy way. Mistrust and suspicion are painful to anyone. A good relationship is not painful.

Caring about how we make the other person feel plays a HUGE role in the viability of any relationship and as far as I can tell, he doesn't care if something he is doing hurts you. It isn't about shoulds or shouldn'ts... It's about whether or not he cares. Knowing that he doesn't, I don't think you would trust him any better even if he did take his profile down.

You should end this and quit wasting your time on someone who's forcing you into these high-school antics.
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 17 (view)
 
Is this not love?
Posted: 11/11/2009 7:08:43 PM

^^^^^I'm not sure what this means. You can choose not to love someone? I know that I have tried to love someone when it just wasn't there (doesn't work), but I have never deliberately chosen NOT to love someone once the feelings were there (can't do it). It's either there or not. I firmly believe that you can feel the *this is someone I could fall in love with* emotion.


Respect, admiration and finding someone attractive are, generally speaking, part of a person's mental processing as to what they "think" of someone. Feelings, on the other hand, are the emotions one has about someone. Have you ever heard someone answer "how are you?" by saying, "I'm feeling pretty respectful today"? I doubt that you have since they're not feelings. Even your "this is someone I could fall in love with" example is a "thought" - not a feeling.

People have the ability to control their thoughts and the further ability to let their thoughts control their feelings. The feelings of infatuation or chemical attraction may be spontaneous but loving someone is far more than just having the warm fuzzies when you meet. It is, in my view, a decision to support another person's growth in all ways through the challenges of life. Love - REAL love - transcends the infatuation stuff because it contains conscientious consideration of the role we want to play in someone else's life.

To that end, yes, I do think that love is a choice and in the OP's case, the man is not choosing her.
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 104 (view)
 
The Love of My Life is Gone Forever
Posted: 11/10/2009 8:36:08 PM

For anyone who had read this thread this far: Please carefully consider giving this person any more advice. He has gotten more good advice over this single relationship than I have recieved in my 49 years of life. Many have suggested that he seek professional help, figure out what HE did that drove her away, and tell himself not to do those things to the next "love of my life" he finds. Seems that he has been given solid advice, and all at no charge, yet he continues to come back here and post more of his drivel. Let's not encourage him anymore!!!

Tavarde, the answers are inside of your head!!!! They are not and never will be in the words of the posts here on POF. It is only when you understand YOUR part in all of this that you will be able to let go and move on!!!! Please get some help!!!


I quite agree... He has to make some decisions now or just let himself drift into obscurity. I don't think he's getting much out of the postings or at least, he's not letting on that he is...

I hope you find your courage Tavarde!
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 9 (view)
 
Is this not love?
Posted: 11/10/2009 8:30:35 PM

I'm just asking how do you know that you can't love someone when you respect and admire everything about them, plus think they are attractive?


I can respect, admire and think someone's attractive without falling in love with them. I felt that way about my mom.

It doesn't mean he "can't" love you... It means he's chosen not to, for whatever reason.
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 102 (view)
 
The Love of My Life is Gone Forever
Posted: 11/10/2009 7:22:16 PM
I suggest you turn your thoughts to trying to find the next one.


If you read through all of the posts here, you would see that this OP has some very real work to do on his thought processes and his self-esteem in order to even be capable of offering genuine love.

I don't know any woman who deserves to simply become a replacement who has to endure the OP's anger, bitterness, depression and yes.. his continuing arrogance. As I see it (and I'm sure you'll agree if you read his posts that show his deteriorated mental condition), he has some big time work to do on himself so that history doesn't just keep repeating itself before he EVER gets into another relationship that is for him, about what he "deserves" rather than what his partner deserves.

Edit to add:

OP... You're obviously determined to keep on with your "deserving" attitude. I'm through with posting to you because it just as obviously, suits your purpose to keep feeling sorry for yourself. You get to choose your time when you're actually ready to learn something and if that's not now, so be it.

 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 31 (view)
 
Has anyone gotten counseling..
Posted: 11/10/2009 6:49:41 PM

I guess it also makes it harder being i'm one of his only friends, and then I feel bad for him on top of everything else. But I know I need to get past that bc in too many ways I am hurting myself in the current situation.


This particular post concerned me OP. You would certainly not be the first person, nor the last, to confuse "love" with "compassion". Since I have done this in the past, I know how easy it is to do. They both "feel" the same in some ways but there are some significant differences. Genuine love finds itself in the behaviors and thought processes that reflect our caring for another person's happiness and spiritual growth as much as we care about our own. We often have to realize that we can easily get in the way of what someone else is meant to learn in their own journey through life when we have a giant need within us to be needed. That need to be needed can supercede all of the other decisions we make in our relationships. We become "compassionate" instead of loving and our own challenge is to learn to use our compassion judiciously... to judiciously withhold it when there is something someone we care about needs to learn as much as to judiciously dispense it when someone we care about needs our support.

The man you are describing has CHOSEN to wall himself off and to become unavailable. For whatever reason, he has made some choices that have left him bereft of friendships. If HE felt bad about being alone, he would have to make some changes in his life to become more outgoing or gregarious OR suffer the consequences. It is HIS choice! But, with you at his beck and call, he doesn't have to make those changes or accept the consequences of his decisions. The question becomes whether or not you are actually getting in the way of the very things that might inspire him to start reaching out?

You need to examine your own motives and your own "need to be needed" as compared to having the genuine love that would encourage his growth, even if it meant you stepping out of the way until he gets himself together and indicates that he is prepared to do the work of having a relationship. I suspect you will find that your compassion is replacing genuine love and that is where you will also, begin to grow.
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 97 (view)
 
The Love of My Life is Gone Forever
Posted: 11/10/2009 5:49:10 PM
Are all you angry and bitter people done tearing me apart?


I would agree that some posters are being a tad harsh with you but I think their intention is to have you get a grip, get some help and get back into living your life. If you read back over your own posts Tavarde, you will see that you are the one who is actually "angry and bitter". If you're sitting in your home day after day, without doing anything to help yourself other than arguing with your ex and joining dating sites, this whole situation is not going to heal itself. Your own anger and bitterness will seem very huge to you because you are making no attempt to temper it by getting another job and getting back into life. If I had to guess, I would guess that you are probably still spending your days playing computer games and when you stop, you feel even worse about yourself because you know that you've simply been "hiding" and refusing to face the problems and deal with them. The longer you do this, the more myopic your reality will become.


Yes, I screwed up big time, I made errors due to immaturity and lack of attention span. Is that any reason to declare me undeserving of love? Undeserving of a second chance?


You may or may not know this but often times, it's what a person does in the hard times, that changes whether or not a partner will find them worthy of a second chance. If what you've posted here is any indication of what you've been saying to your wife, I can imagine that she feels as though she is being "emotionally blackmailed". Your threats to end your life indicate that you are mentally unstable at this time. For you to make these threats, is for you to say that you are not prepared to take control of your life and that you want to punish those who care about you by making them grieve.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not you are deserving of love Tavarde. Many of us have lost loved ones in one way or another and we've had to be courageous enough to allow ourselves to grieve our losses while picking up the pieces of our lives. Such grievous events challenge us to fight our desire to sink into the well of self-pity and it is the muscles we develop while fighting that makes us worthy of another person's love.

You are not "special". You're just like the rest of us who have had to develop new ways to cope with pain and loss while making our lives go forward. Many of us realize that we MUST take time to grieve, that we MUST take time to explore what our own contribution was to the loss and then, to spend some time re-creating our lives as we want them to be. It is your single-mindedly stating that you should somehow be above the challenges of this life that makes your perspective somewhat difficult to deal with for those of us who have had to cope with painful losses and get on with our lives. Again, you are not special... You are just another human being that now has to develop some muscles to cope and it is your arrogance about what YOU deserve, that will be your downfall if you allow it to continue. No one deserves pain but the legacy of pain is knowledge about ourselves and what we need to work on.

If I was your wife, I would not give you a 2nd chance unless or until I could see you making the effort to deal with the arrogance that appears to be hiding some huge insecurities in you. To date, you've used that arrogance, your video games and some very aggressive mannerisms to avoid dealing with the REAL issues in all of this and I suspect, to try to bully your way back into her life.

If you TRULY want to be deserving of a second chance, get off your duff, shut down the computer and go get into some serious therapy for those insecurities. They are YOURS... YOURS to understand... YOURS to own... and most of all... YOURS to fix!

Edit to add:

And by the way, the new women you seek are also DESERVING of genuine love! You appear to be "forgetting" that you have a very real duty to be capable of offering that love and right now, there is no way that you have that capacity. You are caught up in your outrage about what you deserve and that's as far as we have seen your mind travel.

I hope you will be brave enough to get the counselling that indicates you understand that you are a normal human being and that being normal means that you will encounter your own set of challenges in this life. The question is... do you have the cojones to face them and deal with them? Or are you going to stay in this tantrum state?

It's all up to you...

 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 9 (view)
 
Has anyone gotten counseling..
Posted: 11/9/2009 7:46:58 PM
First of all OP, I think that being a psych major is an intellectual accomplishment. Where you're confused is related to your heart and your feelings and this is something no one learns to deal with from a textbook.

When I "read between the lines" of your post, I see someone struggling with her self-restraint and with feelings of helplessness that on an intellectual level, you know are not realistic. You say you "can't live without him either" but in reality, you know that you can because you did before you met him. You say, "I feel like I can't give anyone else a fair chance...". That's not a feeling - it's a thought.

You appear to be emotionally fragile and it would make a lot of sense for you to go into counselling instead of trying to date. With the right therapist, you will be able to develop some valuable coping resources, learn how to develop your self-discipline and hopefully, feel empowered enough to take your life back - with all of its choices, decisions and risks.

The longer you continue to "cave in" to your feelings and continue to see this guy, the longer you are going to stay stuck in that place that makes you feel that you can't get through the heartache and that you can't make decisions that would ease your pain. You are building your own mistrust in yourself and this is only going to get worse if you continue as you are. When you terminate all contact, you are taking steps to protect your own heart and those steps are the ones that will help you start to trust your own decisions once again. Without those steps, you won't trust yourself because you have no reason to.

Counselling works if you understand how much it can help you. Good luck to you!
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 85 (view)
 
seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/8/2009 3:39:49 AM

The legal is system is based on Innocent until Proven Guilty, tangible proof, witnesses and someone who can talk the talk. A black eye, and people seeing him/her punch someone out is as good as anything.


The problem with domestic abuse is that 95% of it takes place behind closed doors and there usually are no witnesses. Hearsay is inadmissable in criminal proceedings. Emotional/verbal abuse is not evidenced by bruises or lacerations. And lastly, "not guilty" in a court of law is NOT the same as "innocent". It simply means that the Crown has failed to prove its case.


Can't compare a serious criminal act to domestic abuse.


WTH??? Domestic abuse IS a serious criminal act. Check out the Criminal Code for things like "assault" and "uttering threats". What are you thinking???


But, more and more the sports fields are looking at "instigators". When they get caught, it's always "Wha' Me!?????.."


What does sports have to do with this thread???


Also, the police are taking a more pro-active line in domestic abuse. They take both parties in now and park them in jail for a cool-down. No more referee. It takes two. Makes them both think about it the next time.


There are some districts where the police have all but given up and there are others, where the police are STILL recommending that the victim return to her abuser. Recently, here in BC, our premier cut $440,000 out of the domestic violence programs until the various women's groups forced him to put it back. Arnold Schwarzenegger did the same thing in California. He has not put the funds back.

It doesn't "take two".... All it takes is one mentally ill person to cause domestic violence.

I don't know where on earth you are getting your information but I am inclined to think that like most people, you might be scared to accept that there are circumstances beyond a person's control in this world and that people who are traumatized REMAIN traumatized unless they get professional help for it.
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 83 (view)
 
seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/8/2009 3:20:16 AM
OP... While reading this thread, I wondered about your friend's history prior to being married... i.e. what kind of childhood she had, what type of marriage her parents had and what, if any, traumatic experiences she may have had?

It seems to me that she has likely "numbed out" if she has been enduring emotional/verbal abuse from her spouse for 20 years and it may even be, that she went into her marriage "numbed out". In other words, somewhere along the way, she stopped being responsive to her own feelings. Trauma can cause this and most people don't understand that the traumatized brain is incapable of processing feelings and information in the same way as a normal person's would. What one person may find "traumatic" is very different from what another person will find traumatic but if she has been traumatized, she may have post traumatic stress disorder.

The worst thing about PTSD is that people don't realize they have it. Their brains are "frozen" or "stuck" and they don't know it until they're diagnosed with it. This disorder can literally keep someone in an unhealthy relationship because they're either unable to feel their feelings or unable to mentally process them. Your saying that your friend seems "immobilized" leads me to question if she doesn't have PTSD. If she does have PTSD, there is help for it and I believe that there are some sites on the Net that actually have questionnaires to assist someone in determining if they are, in fact, suffering from this disorder.

I've wondered if she is financially dependent on her spouse but you say that she was preparing lesson plans so I assume she is a teacher? Is she actively teaching?

As someone else mentioned, there may be a whole lot going on behind the scenes that your friend has not mentioned to you. He may be threatening to hurt her or to perhaps deprive her of her daughter if she leaves him. It may be the case that she has decided not to tell anyone of his threats so that she doesn't scare them. I know many women who don't tell what is truly going on because they know it would frighten their friends and family.

You are obviously an awesome friend to this lady and for that, I applaud you. There are far too many people who help an abuser to isolate his victim even further by pulling away when they simply don't understand how such a situation can come about or the effect of trauma. These are the same people who will tell you that your friendship is enabling her or who prefer to believe that she is, in some way, causing his emotional abuse of her. PTSD IS immobilizing!

Hopefully, your constant support and love for her will inspire her to break away. In the interim, you may want to visit some of the PTSD sites for information to see if it relates to your friend and/or attend at your local women's shelter for guidance on how to assist your friend.
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 80 (view)
 
The Love of My Life is Gone Forever
Posted: 11/8/2009 2:44:59 AM
OP... I spoke with you earlier in this thread and felt that I had said about as much as I had to say but after reading your ensuing posts, I have one more thing to say.

I think that you are seriously in need of some counselling to help you cope with what is going on in your life. A breakup and the loss of a job are considered heavy stressors and you really seem to be entirely bereft of any coping skills regarding loss.

Other people cannot be your "everything". God help the innocent woman who comes into your life at this point because you will place even more demands on her to "make up" for the lack of everything else in your life and the same thing will repeat over and over until you "get" that you have some intense work to do on your self-esteem and thinking patterns.

You need to go see your family doctor and get him or her to refer you to a psychiatrist or a psychologist. These losses can be the catalyst for you to start a brand new life but you need to go get that help.
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 14 (view)
 
My life has been turned upside down!
Posted: 11/5/2009 8:26:45 AM
My ex had a rather negative reaction when we learned that we were expecting after 3 years of marriage and suggested that I terminate my pregnancy. I was appalled that he would even think about it never mind suggest it. After I got over the first shock, I was hurt and angry that he would reject the product of our love for one another. All of this was reactionary.

A few nights later, I arranged for us to see the minister who had married us not because he had married us but because my husband really liked him and looked up to him. I didn't know what the minister would tell either of us but once we had told him what was happening, he began to talk with my husband about the fear a lot of men feel when told they are going to be fathers. Instead of alienating my husband with a lot of "shoulds" or "should nots", he offered him the support for his feelings that he needed and that I'd been too hurt to offer. Man to man, he was able to understand and offer my husband what I could not. He told him "it was okay to be scared".

He was not the most "with-it" kind of father that ever walked the earth throughout our daughter's childhood but they did eventually develop their own special kind of bond. She is now 27 years old and he (Dad) is renovating her kitchen.

I suggest you try to find someone male that your partner might look up to and arrange a meeting. It's possible that like my husband, your partner is simply frightened.

Gather your family around and try to get them to help him see that everything is going to be okay. If you can find enough support, it may help him to become more comfortable with becoming a Daddy.

Good luck to you!
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 30 (view)
 
What's wrong with me?
Posted: 11/3/2009 10:09:24 PM

It really has nothing to do with you. You were not a good match for whatever reason.

In the world of dating sometimes things work out and most times they don't

There is nothing to be gained by wasting a minute wondering what you did wrong. Most likely it was simply a matter of you two not meshing enough.

Cut off contact, move on. It's the best way to handle it.


With all due respect PH, I don't agree. If you are able to see life as a series of experiences that are intended to teach you what you are here to learn, there is always some message to be found that can help us to improve ourselves. I think it's far better for this young OP to be trying to figure things out in relation to herself now than it would be for her to be trying to do so with regret later. A little self-examination is a good thing for all of us.
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 13 (view)
 
The Love of My Life is Gone Forever
Posted: 11/3/2009 9:07:57 PM

I changed it, don't worry. And maybe I don't understand what true love is. I thought I did, but maybe not. Either way, I woke up every day feeling lucky as hell to have her in my life and now that feeling is gone. Is it so wrong to want to get that feeling back? I obviously won't be getting it with her so I have to find someone new.


To love and be loved is one of the most beautiful things that can happen to any of us in this life. BUT.... It's so much more than finding someone that can keep you from feeling lonely. When you marry to avoid your own company or to avoid feeling lonely, you are marrying to fill YOUR need. That ISN'T about loving someone else or what they might need. That makes another person no more than a useful appliance.

If you don't learn what life is challenging you to learn OP, finding someone new isn't going to help because you will simply end up in the same situation over and over again until you figure out what is wrong with using another person to complete yourself.

If you can't bear being alone, you truly need to find out why you can't. I suspect the answer to that question will also answer some of the questions you have about why your marriage failed. Don't be afraid of the silence... It has messages if you are brave enough to hear them.

Good luck to you.
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 8 (view)
 
Is it possible to die from loneliness? Or from a broken heart?
Posted: 11/3/2009 8:59:17 PM
You aren't providing enough information for anyone to know why you might be feeling as you are OP.

Are you reclusive (i.e. shutting people out)? Have you just had a change in your life circumstances?

I note that your profile shows you drink more than 3 times a week. Do you know that alcohol is a depressant?

Why not give us some background as to why you might be feeling the way you are?
 Silken Fire
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 11 (view)
 
The Love of My Life is Gone Forever
Posted: 11/3/2009 8:47:16 PM

You make valid points, Silken. As for something missing, there is something missing. Her and I never really had good conversation throughout the entire relationship. We made small talk but never got into really deep, hours-long discussions about anything. She never seemed bothered by it so I didn't think much of it. It did bother me a little that we often didn't have a lot to talk about but I was going with the flow. She was madly in love with me and I felt myself lucky for that.


A marriage without good communication between the spouses can be one of the loneliest places on earth. All the flowers in the world don't make up for feeling like the person one is married to is their very best friend.

I find it interesting that you say: "she was madly in love with me". How could she have been madly in love with you if you didn't speak your mind or have the occasional meaningful pillow-talk where secrets, dreams and hopes are exchanged? Chances are pretty good that she didn't feel that she knew you or even, that you knew her if your relationship was not dotted with these truly intimate moments.

When people come to trust that they are loved, it is almost ALWAYS because they not only believe that they know the real person who is their spouse but also that they feel that their spouse knows who they truly are. If either one of these elements are missing due to poor communication, it should come as no surprise that the untended garden is going to grow weeds.

You say that you expressed genuine interest in "the things she liked" but it seems to me that she needed you to be interested in who she was. You say that you continued on with your video games while remaining at her disposal but to me, that's a fairly half-assed way to console yourself that you were actually spending a quality evening with your wife. Why didn't you plan some special evenings that were just about spending time together with no other disturbances? Date nights? "Just us" times that weren't necessarily about making love but rather about connecting with one another through talking or just enjoying being together?

When you say that your asking her to marry you was a sign of your great love for her, it gives me a hint that you do have some narcissistic traits that you might want to be seriously looking at. Love is an action word and it isn't the case that all you need to do is be the warm body speaking some words or standing at the altar when she gets there.


Oh, and as for advertising myself as divorced, yea that's not entirely accurate. But it will be happening soon enough. I came to this site, and many others, because I need to find someone new. I can't be sitting around in self-pity forever, miserable and lonely. Yes, I miss her. I love her dearly still and will for the rest of my life in spite of all her flaws. But I will not simply be alone. That is just not an option.


The foregoing quote reveals more than I think you realize. It's entirely possible that your wife came to understand that her place in your life was to keep you from being alone rather than being someone you cherished and respected. I don't know any woman who wants to be some man's place-marker.

The more you post, the more you make it appear that you really don't understand what real love truly is. I suspect that it will be a huge part of your own journey in this life to come to understand AND VALUE the difference between being a life-partner to someone that you share intimacy on every level with as opposed to being someone that simply shares space with another someone.

And no OP... it's really NOT okay to say that you're divorced when you're not. You're being dishonest. Stop it!
 
Show ALL Forums