online dating service
REGISTER | MAIL/PROFILE | HELP | NOW ONLINE | SEARCH | RATING | FORUMS | SUCCESS STORIES

 

     
Posted In Forum:
Home   login   MyForums  
Show ALL Forums  
 
 Author Thread: Question: singles parents who won't have sex outside of marriage....?
 Flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 48 (view)
 
Question: singles parents who won't have sex outside of marriage....?
Posted: 11/11/2008 9:23:12 PM

I also would never use sex as some weapon to get a man to marry me LOL


How on earth does one do that? Most of the guys I've met, including my ex husband, propose in the first week, before sex is even an issue that has been discussed.

Not having sex doesn't make a many marry someone - I can guarantee it usually has the opposite effect and makes them run. If you want to try to manipulate someone into marrying you, sex is the easiest way to do it... just do what some of his mistresses tried and pretend to get pregnant and the proposal comes pretty fast.

I too would never use sex as a weapon to get a man to marry, hence the reason I don't do it outside of marriage. How many of those who are married here would have been married if they'd said no sex before marriage? 1%? 0.1? none of you?

Think about it.

And anyone who is in a constant state of frustration because they aren't having sex has a sex addiction and needs a life. I haven't had any for two years and have no desire to until I marry a decent man.
 Flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 38 (view)
 
Question: singles parents who won't have sex outside of marriage....?
Posted: 11/11/2008 10:44:07 AM
I must say, to those who believe it is a control thing... you're obviously looking at the wrong sort of women. Myself, and the single mothers I know don't want a guy who wants sex now but is willing to wait - we want a guy who believes the same as we do that it is something that should be waited for.

It would be different if you wanted to make someone who wants it to wait - you do get a few who do that to control. But this is very different - it's searching for a man who feels the same way.

As for the whole trying before you buy thing.... I'm a firm believer that if you love your partner you will find a way to satisfy them - I had no trouble satisfying my husband sexually despite having no experience, yet to put it bluntly, despite his multitudes of experience (much of it during our marriage) he couldn't satisfy me most of the time.

Had nothing to do with me not being able to be satisfied, nor was he bad at sex - he just rarely put the effort in. When he put the effort in, sex was magical - any of his mistresses can tell you that - that during the high points of their relationships, the sex was great, but when he lost interest, it sucked. But because I put the effort in every time, the only times he wasn't happy was when he was so high on drugs his weiner wouldn't cooperate.

As for those who say, single parents have obviously done the deed as they have a kid, and it's only magical the first time.... that's like those excuse date rape and spousal rape - just because a woman's had sex before, doesn't mean she has to have it again if that's what she chooses to do.

And the reality is, there are single mothers out there who have NEVER, not once, had sex outside of marriage, and if they've never had sex outside of marriage before, why should they have to do so now?

Why should anyone have to sacrifice what they believe in so they can get a partner?

No one should have to sacrifice anything they believe in for any partner - and I'm not just talking about sex. It's basic respect.

But my original post was because I was wondering if there are such creatures as men who believe in waiting for sex until marriage who are willing to date someone who has had sex before, even if it's always been inside of marriage?

Unless I missed it, I didn't see a single reply from anyone who was such a man or knew such a man?
 Flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 30 (view)
 
Does it stink to you or am I being judgmental?
Posted: 11/11/2008 10:28:01 AM
to be honest, there are a few people I know where it would be in the kids best interests if they just walked away - my daughter would do so much better if her father would walk away...

but only because of the unfit state he is in - and any woman he is involved with is insane to be with someone like that - in fact all of the woman he is involved with are insane - especially considering one woman who got the smarts and dumped him had five kids - although she stayed for 10 months after knowing he was a child abuser - and the current main mistress he has is trying to get her own kid back - smart move, to move in with a child abuser and try to get your kid back NOT.

some people are so desperate they just don't care who they get involved, and sadly they encourage these pieces of trash to get more custody of their kids when they should turn around and either dump them, or at the very least tell them to leave their kids alone until they stop being abusive and using drugs etc
 Flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 29 (view)
 
Does it stink to you or am I being judgmental?
Posted: 11/11/2008 10:21:19 AM
Not judgmental at all. I turned down a guy for walking out on his kids. His excuse was he and his wife had "fallen out of love". I say that's the laziest excuse I've heard.

But actually the reason I wanted to comment was the abusive marriage part... if someone needs to get out of an abusive marriage fast - you sure as hell don't leave the kids!!!!

I did the opposite - I stayed with my ex husband for six years after he started beating me because I knew if I left, as long as it was only me he was beating, a court would automatically give him shared custody - and not give a d*mn that without me to beat the living daylights out of, it would be our daughter he started beating the living daylights out of.

In the end, he started belting her around even with me there to beat up, and at first, I dealt with it by stepping in and taking the beatings - knowing that even with his history of beating our daughter, in the sick system we have in place here, he would still get some unsupervised access to our daughter (as has sadly happened), so at least while we were living together, I could step in and take the beatings for her - but eventually he'd left me so injured I was physically unable to get up and take the beatings meant for her and threw him out and threw my daughter's safety on the gamble of the court system - and sadly my daughter has lost.

At the moment the only thing keeping her safe is the arrangement isn't permanent and my husband only has her for a few hour's at a time and he's too high on drugs to pay any attention to our daughter, positive or negative.

I could keep going, but it only makes me upset what my daughter is being putting through.

To be honest, I look down on a parent who has abandoned their child to an abusive spouse, even more than those who have just abandoned their cihld in general.

The ONLY reason for ever walking away from a child is when the person acknowledges they are a complete screw up and would only hurt or neglect their child if they had care of them - that is the ONLY reason for ever walking away from your child - if you know it's for their safety. And for anyone in that situation, they should be focussing on getting their life together and not on getting involved with a partner.
 Flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 151 (view)
 
Would you give up custody of your kids and move away just to be with a new partner?
Posted: 11/11/2008 10:11:35 AM

Hell no!$#^$%^$%&^$&$%&$^%&$%&$#^#&$&%^&^$&^%&$^%&^%&%^&$^&%^&%^&%^&%^


And any one who asks is definitely not worth being with
 Flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 5 (view)
 
Should I enforce this?
Posted: 11/11/2008 10:08:31 AM
sounds like my ex - demands to have our daughter more, but when reminded he is welcome to see her any time he likes at all, he refuses.

He demands to have our daughter more so he can abuse me with the lies he will tell anyone who will listen that I won't let him see our daughter.

On Father's Day, he promised our daughter he would see her, it was all arranged, and then be blew it off at the last second. I did everything to get him to come - even offering to pay him to come see her. I begged and grovelled, pleaded, etc. But he flat out refused.

Why?

well actually two reasons - the first is the mistress he ran off with a psychopath and is jealous of our daughter - she wants to hijack our daughter to be her own (even calls my daughter, her daughter), but at the same time is insanely jealous of our daughter and is scared the more my ex husband sees of our daughter, the greater risk he will see through the lies about me she used to seduce him and the greater the risk he will see what a fantastic wife I was and dump her and try to come crawling back to me. So basically his mistress will try to stop him seeing our daughter, while trying to make it look to him that I'm the one stopping him, to keep his rages flowing at me, not her.

But the second reason is the disgusting petty creep just wanted to go around telling everyone I wouldn't let him see our daughter on Father's Day - despite the fact I begged him to and even offered to pay him to (despite his income being four times what mine is, I have 95% care and he pays ZERO child support). And stupidly people believe him.

It sounds believable that someone would stop a cheating spouse from seeing their child on Father's Day, but it doesn't sound so believable that the poor cheated on spouse did everything possible to make that visit happen and the ungrateful abusive jerk refused to come - even though that is precisely what happened.

The truth is there are so many men (and some women too, it goes both ways) who will whinge and moan and complain and b***h they don't get enough time with their child, but when it comes down to it, when they are offered time, they won't take it - it's just a way for them to use their child to hurt their ex.... what better way to hurt a loving mother (father) than to hurt the child by refusing to spend time with them.
 Flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 26 (view)
 
behavior after visits
Posted: 11/11/2008 8:36:28 AM
I'm dealing with this too, but I know what the problem is - my ex.

We seperated because I asked him to move out temporarily because he constantly high on drugs and regularly beating the crap out of me and our daughter when he was coming down off drugs. However, he was the one who chose to move in with his long term mistress (that I didn't know he had at that stage, who he'd been screwing behind my back for at least a year) instead of going into rehab and going back on his psych meds like he kept telling me was going to do as soon as he could get a place (big waits around here).

The problem is, the mongrel has decided to tell our daughter (and all his friends and family) that he left because I was constantly picking fights with him and that he had to escape being "abused". Sadly, in his sick, twisted mind, he honestly believes that - because I'd occasionally beg him not to take our food money and spend it all on drugs and then he'd beat the crap out of me for daring to go against his wishes, he calls that a "fight" and even sadder, he thinks when I finally pressed charges with the police because after years of him deliberately trying to seriously injure me, and beating our daughter, I realised it was only a matter of time before he killed one of us - my ex husband honestly believes I have "abused" him by pressing charges against him after a vicious assault on our daughter who had just turned five at the time.

It's bad enough his friends listen (they have the same disgusting attitude that begging someone not to take your all your food money and then beating the crap out of them is a "fight" and that going to the police for assaulting a five year old is "abusing" the person who has assaulted the child), it's even worse his sole surviving family member, his sister, listens (when she was abused herself and has seen him abuse me), but the sick creep knows our poor little girl is so vulnerable that she has no choice but to listen.

Even on the few occasions he bothers to call, he poisons our daughter against me, telling her to speak like crap to me - and if this is what he does in my hearing, you can imagine what he does when the poor child is forced to visit him alone!!!!!

I know why my daughter is lashing out - my ex husband tells her to lash out and he makes up bad things about me and convinces her I am to blame for our break up despite the fact he is the one who used drugs and bashed us and ultimately the one who chose to run off with one of his mistresses instead of going to rehab, and he is the one who insisted on getting divorced to marry his wh*re knowing full well that if he had gone to rehab for his drug addiction and sex addiction and got help for his violence and mental illness AND never abused us again, he would be welcome back.

Unfortunately there isn't a terrible lot you can do with kids that young - even when their older it doesn't get any easier, and teenagers (from what I've seen through other parents in this situation) can be even worse.

Even if you try to set them straight on the situation, it's no guarantee they will believe you or that it will matter even if they do. All you can do is try to curtail the behaviour, show him unconditional love, reward him when he treats you with respect - and record what is happening when it happens in case it becomes important to have a record down the track.
 Flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 152 (view)
 
How do women feel about being involved with single Dads?
Posted: 11/11/2008 8:20:50 AM

Oh you didn't get the memo NotInnocent? We are all psychotic money hungry wh*res. How dare we impregnate ourselves with their sperm!


Sounds like the psychopath my ex husband just married.

She sadly latched on to him specifically because he was a single dad.

She didn't care that he was actually a married dad when she started screwing him. She didn't care that she pretended to be one of my best friends for five years until I found out she was screwing my husband. And she certainly didn't care that he'd beaten the crap out of me for six years and our daughter for four years.

Some women go out of their ways to attach themselves to single (or not so single) dads.

In my ex husband's mistress's case, she had her own child removed from her due to abuse and neglect, and she can't conceive again due to having caught an STD from sleeping around having sex without protection with multitudes of men, she can't adopt due to her psych and criminal history, so the only way for her to meet her obsession with owning a child is to latch on to a man with a child - and who cares if the guy isn't single when she first gets her claws into them???

For the single dads out there who want a date and don't care who it's with, there are all too many women out there like this psychopath who will attach themselves to you and won't care if you put the kids first - because they want your kids even more they want you.

Of course, any SANE man would not want someone hooking up with him so they can hijack his kid/s, but there are some genuinely insane ones like my ex husband.

God forbid he ever get shared custody, because between his violence and his mistress' violence, our daughter wouldn't survive a week.
 Flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 151 (view)
 
How do women feel about being involved with single Dads?
Posted: 11/11/2008 8:04:49 AM

i tell women right away that i have my kids full time and they come first. I think thats the problem, women dont want to come 2nd ;)
Prove me wrong


That's easy to prove wrong mate, I'd dump any guy who didn't put his kids first.
Any man who will put a woman over his child is a loser who doesn't deserve to have kids.

Hence the reason my ex-husband is such a scumbag. He puts getting sex with women over the fact that these very women should never be let near his child (and usually should not be let near any child).

The mistress he moved in with the first time I threw him out said it was ok he bashed our daughter (she claimed later she was joking but you don't joke about stuff like that, especially when men like my ex-husband take it seriously) - she at least had the sense to dump him for her kid's sake when he started showing her his violent rages.

And as for the mistress he moved in with when I kicked his sorry a** out the second time, she took it another step further - she has threatened to have my daughter bashed, she abused her own daughter so badly that she is forbidden from unsupervised access to her child, she has said that if (when) he bashes our daughter in front of her that she will not only ignore it but actively cover it up for him, and finally she has said that he did nothing wrong by murdering our unborn baby by beating the living daylights out of me when he came back a month after we had seperated, demanding money for drugs when I had no money on me to give him.

Seriously, I would not even consider dating a guy who put any woman, even me, above his kids. For a guy to be worth dating in my eyes, any woman has to come second to his kids.

lol, are you between 25 and 35, a genuine christian and willing to relocate to be with someone? because I'd date you for your attitudes towards women and kids if you were. Of course, you'd have to be willing to respect the fact that my daughter comes first in my life, but methinks that you would.
 Flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 7 (view)
 
Question: singles parents who won't have sex outside of marriage....?
Posted: 11/8/2008 10:25:30 AM

It makes sense to me - it's a core value for some people. But it doesn't fit in with current popular culture so many people will mock and try to shame you for it (but are defensive as hell about their own lifestyle).


It's not always a religious thing - one only has to check out the "True Love Waits" movement to see that. But for most of the women I know, it is a religious thing.

Thank you for those who did understand that it is a core value but that having values is a legitimate, albeit sometimes difficult, choice in a culture that doesn't readily accept values outside the norm.

For those who find the my original post too long, and for those still reading... I guess what I'd really like to know, there are obviously women with this core value, but are there any men with core value other than maybe one in a million?

Are there any here at this site reading, of any age, any background, who share this core value?
 Flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 62 (view)
 
Boyfriend went back to his ex - advice
Posted: 11/8/2008 9:59:04 AM
I don't mean to hurt you because I know all too well the pain of losing someone you love, All I can say is it's best not to get involved with any man where there is any chance of him working things out with his ex, even if it's the slimmest chance ever.

Especially to those who have talked about their partners going back to ex-spouses... people got married for reason. Sometimes people forget this reason and walk away from a marriage or relationship, but often, down the track, they come to remember why they got married and want that feeling back - leaving the new partner to return to their spouse.

Obviously there are cases with people you know will never go back - my ex husband beat me and our daughter for far too long to ever trust him back in our lives again, and the years of cheating didn't help his case. I made the mistake of taking him back once and it's a mistake I will never repeat.

I guess it's the harsh, bitter reality of getting involved with someone who has an ex spouse or ex long term partner - you run the risk of them going back.

My ex husband's previous main mistress (no idea what else to describe her as - he screwed her for a year before we separated, he moved in with her for a few months but continued to screw other women during that time) learnt the hard way.

He spent the last few months before the first time we seperated, telling me he loved me with all his heart and would kill himself if I ever left him and that he really wanted a baby - while at the same time telling her exactly the same thing.

While they started publicly started planning their marriage, after I kicked him out but before I discovered they'd been having an affair for a year, she convinced herself that he was genuine when he said he loved her and would never stop loving her, that she was his true love and that he'd never loved any woman like he'd love her - she was well aware just months earlier he'd been telling me these very things (while sleeping with several other women) but he convinced her and she convinced herself, that he'd just been pretending when he told me these things and that when he'd met her, that he realised he didn't love me and it was really her he loved.

And yet in the end, he came crawling back to me, begging for another chance.

After he realised I wasn't going to tolerate his drug use and violence and that these really had to be over before things would be normal again, he started sleeping with her again but also started sleeping with other women including one of my "best" friends - who was even more stupider.

She knew he was begging me for another chance, she knew he had told this other women earlier the same day that he loved her and wanted their relationship back together - that 8 months earlier he had been professing his undying love to me and saying he wanted a baby, and one month earlier he had been professing his undying love and desire for a baby to this other woman - and yet my "friend" foolishly believed him when he claimed he never really loved me or his previous main mistress (who he referred to as his fiance at the time), that he had "woken up" and that neither of those loves were real, and that in fact that it was "friend" he truly loved and wanted to be with forever.

Bit stupid of her considering it's obvious a guy really doesn't love a woman when he has unprotected sex with her just hours after admitting to have unprotected sex with another woman, and that a man with both a wife and a "fiance" quite obviously has no respet for women.

I'm sure when he gets sick of how my former friend mistreats him, he'll attempt to come crawling back, but he can forget that.... but I'm sure my former friend will feel exactly the same as many of you feel now when he ditches her and tries to come crawling back.

Beware of men (or women for you guys out there) who quickly claim they are your best friend and love you want to be with you forever - people like this fall out of love just as easily as they fall in love. It may be four years before they go back to their ex, it may be 9 years as I believe someone mentioned, it may even be more - their ex may be a bit stupid for taking them back, because I'm sure they'll do the same again to their ex, but these people don't truly love you or their ex - they just use all members of the opposite sex to fill their need to feel wanted and fill their need to feel "in love" with someone - neither feeling is love and you are all better off without these people.
 Flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 21 (view)
 
what are the rules about dating your friends ex?
Posted: 11/8/2008 9:28:50 AM
maybe I'm bit out of place because my close "friend" didn't wait for my husband before she started screwing him. In fact the first time we separated she did everything in her power to stop us reconciling in the hope that he would end his affairs with the other women he was involved and would be monogamous with her (pretty stupid to think a guy who is involved in multiple long term affairs when he has a loving wife is suddenly going to stop sleeping with all of his other mistresses because his wife starts a new relationship after they've separated, but I wasn't friends with this woman for her brains!).

But when I did reconcile with him, when for a brief moment in time he did end his other affairs and beg me for another chance, she used our friendship and my reconciliation with him to get back in with him again and started feeding him lies about me supposedly getting it on with all these other guys (complete lie, but he believed her since he knew I shared everything with her and automatically assumed if she was claiming I had said it to her, that she must be being truthful).

I mean as I said... maybe it's different because this backstabbing cow started sleeping with my husband while we were still together and broke us up after we had reconciled by claimed he had raped her - and knowing his history of violence and spousal rape, and believing she was one of my closest friends, I foolished believed her. I told him I hated him and to this day, he says he can't forgive ME because I could believed he was capable of raping her (considering he did it to me, it's not like he has a right to say it's not believable) - while at the same time, he's not the slightest bit bothered by the fact she told me he'd raped her - because in his twisted mind, that "proves" she loves him because she'll do anything to get him to herself where as I'm "evil" for believing her lies about him.

A bit of track, but to answer your question.... ask yourself why this man is her ex?

Even if my friend had waited until after we seperated (not that we would have had she not got him hooked back on drugs and convinced him that violence against spouses and children is ok and of course, the final straw, falsely claiming he had raped her to drive a wedge between us that now cannot be removed), what she did is unforgivable.

She knew he had bashed me for six years, she knew he'd beat me so badly he made me miscarry our precious little girl, she knew he'd been abusing our little girl who is nearly 7 since she was 3 (actually it went back further than that, but I'd only shared it with my "friend" since my daughter was three), she knew he'd been cheating on me for years and could have killed me a potentially fatal STD he picked up (and thankfully didn't kill me - I got the all clear - he however has not and she knows this).

This woman not only betrayed me by seducing my husband, but she also betrayed the friendship and she betrayed my daughter. She took away my daughter's last chance to have an intact family which I find unforgivable. And she betrayed our friendship by getting into a relationship with the man who abused me and my child for longer than I even knew her.

Ask yourself, how will your friend feel if you get involved with her ex? Why did she break up with him and why doesn't he see child? Did he cheat on her? Did he ever abuse her or their child?

Quite simply, would she be ok with you dating him and if not, why not? I think you said she wouldn't be ok with you being with him, so ask yourself why not? and don't lie to yourself, like my "friend" has done... she has convinced herself that it doesn't matter he beat me, our daughter, the long term mistress he moved in with the first time I kicked him out, and two fiances before me (who I am angry with myself to this day for not believing them until after we got marrried and I copped it myself). She has convinced herself that marrying him will stop him from sleeping with other women despite the fact he slept with many women during our marriage.

Look at this guy's history - what does your friend say about him? ask her questions about how she feels about women who date him...

my ex husband was a friend's ex. i thought i'd given them more than enough time after their breakup for him to be "free". i knew she had said some negative things about him - 12 years on i still have the letter she wrote me just after they broke up, before he and i even became friends (we became friends because he kept ringing me to help him get back together with her, and because she wanted me to pick up the pieces of another guy whose heart she broke).

i knew my friend was a spiteful ex - making up lies about guys she'd dump to excuse dumping them and to get attention from friends. i knew she was a backstabbing cow too as she'd been my best friend until she stabbed me in the back herself. i thought all the terrible things she said about him were just the lies of an attention seeker who wanted to cover up the fact that she was "player" for lack of a better term.

and i spent six years of my life paying for that mistake. my ex husband seemed like a nice guy when i first met him. i must admit, i did see him hit my friend once - his mother had died days earlier and she was making fun of him for crying, and while i don't condone violence at all, i could understand as my husband's mother was everything to him since his father had died 8 years earlier. i dismissed it as a moment of weakness in what was a terrible time for him.

we were friends for two years before we started dating and the whole time he seemed like a great guy. same with the first 3 months of our relationship, and then even for the whole 18 months of our engagement, other than the fact that he slipped up a few times and would give into his mates pushing him to use drugs when they were - and then lying to me about it out of fear i'd dump him (which i should have in hindsight), other than that, he still treated me like a princess.

it wasn't until six months after we got married that i started seeing his true colours. and another year after that before he started belting me around.

i dismiised the words of my old friend who told me he was violent because he seemed nice for years and i knew she was prone to making up stuff about exes - and look where that left me - beaten for six years and cheated on for only God knows how long.

I tried warning my former close friend - I pointed out that I told her about the abuse for more than five years before they started their affair - more than four years before I even knew he had ever cheated on me - even though she knew he was cheating on me long before i did, she knows when i first found ou t. she knows i had no reason to make it up to her because if i wanted attention, she knows the more painful abuse from another source could have given me more attention for anyone - and she knows that i loved my husband with all my heart and would never say anything negative about him that was untrue and that it broke my heart to say the true negative things about him an the only lies I told about him were to say he was a good man when he wasn't.

all i can say, is just seriously deeply think about why this man is your friend's ex, and don't just dismiss what she has to say as being a b***h as that is the mistake I made.

to be honest, I'd just stay away from any relationship with this guy - it's obvious he's going to cop crap from her if he gets into a relationship with you - if you love him, why put him int hat position? because if you care about a man, you don't put them in awkward position.

think about what going out with him will do to him....
 Flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 26 (view)
 
For moms who lost kids in custody battle
Posted: 11/8/2008 8:50:47 AM
actually turkeyfoot - you are right. it's the liars that cry wolf that are to blame.

sadly I know from being abused as a child myself that sometimes a child abused by an adultdoesn't speak up until decades after the abuse occurred.

my daughter, thankfully for her sake, blocks out most of the abuse that occurred before I threw her father out - every so often she will come out with some random thing, but thankfully we both got out before she was left haunted like I am to do this.

This is why I sound so very angry at child abusers - I don't even hate my abuser as she genuinely does not remember having done it due to a medical condition that has wiped years of her memory, but while I don't hate an abuser, I do hate child abuse with more than a passion.

But I do know, that often with child abuse there is no record. There is absolutely no physical record out there about the abuse I suffered as a child - I hid it so well, believing that if I reported being abused, I'd be taken away and put in foster care and never see my brothers and sister again, and therefore I wouldn't be able to protect them if they got abused too.

but again, turkeyfoot, you are so right - it's the people who cry wolf that screw it up for those who are truthful. i guess here, especially on the internet, you can't even tell who is truthful and who is not - another function of a world full of people who cry wolf.

I don't ask to be believed here - just to raise awareness of the importance of not making false allegations - because every false allegation that is made is endangering a child who is really being abused.

the only other thing i was going to say, as for the woman who is involved with my ex-husband - i do know pretty much why she lost her child. she was one of very closest, "best" friends for six years before i discovered her affair with my husband when he and i were trying to reconcile last year - and apparently she'd been carrying on with him for a while. While I have come to see she told me many lies during our "friendship", I believe the truth of the situation lies in her drunken rants rather than carefully crafted stories told when sober.

First few years I knew she her, she claimed her ex had snatched their kid while she was in hospital for depression. But as our friendship grew, I began seeing holes in her original story, and as her alcholism and drug abuse grew, the more of the story I got out of her when she was smashed off her face. Obviously everything she told me could be fabricated other than what I have seen with my own two eyes - that she doesn't have custody of her daughter, for years she was forbidden even to see her daughter supervised, and currently only has supervised access for a few hours.

To be honest, I don't even know the full extent of what she did, except that she described the act that lost her her daughter to be "so awful that if I knew, I would never talk to her ever again" which considering I could have forgiven her affair with my husband had she ended it, says a lot about how I can talk to someone who has done something pretty awful - in fact I only told her I could never talk to her again when she started threatening my daughter and making fun of the fact I miscarried after my husband beat me for my drug money after we had separated.

I do know that the court system still has a gender bias that rarely sees a man awarded full custody and a woman denied any custody unless the woman has done something very, very bad.

I may never find out precisely what she did, but at least my lawyer will hopefully soon. The whole custody case has been complicated by the fact that I'm on my third lawyer. I am a uni student with no child support and only able to work during holidays (when I lose most of what I make to the babysitter anyway) so I rely on Legal Aid. The lawyer they assigned me was an incompetent fool who believed my ex husband's lies such as he was off drugs (when the fool ended up admitting in court that he uses every day). My grandmother offered to use her savings to pay for a decent lawyer - that lawyer ended up basically being a swindler - he took my grandmother's money and then did nothing, he didn't subpoena records and he didn't even ask the magistrate for drug testing despite my ex husband's admission to being a daily user. The same lawyer also did a whole bunch of work for my grandmother herself and ripped her off too - we've heard from others that he isn't the most honest of lawyers, but not that it mattered. My nana could no longer afford to pay, so I had to head back to legal aid.

This time, I appear to have found a really good lawyer, but the magistrate got really cranky at the last hearing that I was on my third lawyer, and that after 18 months in the system, my ex husband had finally bothered getting a lawyer but his lawyer tried to submit documents on the day which is apparently not allowed (they have to be submitted to all parties at least a certain number of days before the hearing).

It's a real struggle at times - dealing with all this crap, while juggling uni and since my daughter has spent the last few months (finally) being tested for aspergers (which involves many appointments with different specialists for different assessments) and her regular counselling and treatment for the aspergers.

I just want to scream sometimes at these people "you have the proof he abused our daughter before I kicked him out, [he plead guilty to violating domestic violence orders]and you have his admission he uses drugs on a daily basis, what more do you need?????"

I just want to protect my daughter like no one protected me as a child. A few people in my life knew i was being abused and they did nothing. I want to be the knight in shining armour that protects her from all badness like no one was able to do for me.

maybe it's selfish to think that way - wanting to protect my daughter from child abuse because i spent years in my child screaming out to God to send someone to do the same for me and my prayer was never answered - but the fact remains, I just want to protect my daughter and to give her the safe childhood I never had.

People say she is like a little mini-me - and I can see it. She looks like me, she has my sense of humour and she is so much like I was a kid until my innocence was lost to the world - which I guess eventually happens to every child, but for most, you hope they are able to be a child for as long as possible before they have to grow up and see the world for the difficult and painful place it often is.

All I want is to give her the childhood I never had. I just don't understand why that seems so much to ask sometimes?

Sorry, I don't expect an answer to that... just a musing.
 Flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 1 (view)
 
Question: singles parents who won't have sex outside of marriage....?
Posted: 11/8/2008 8:12:19 AM
My question is, why is it that there does not seem to exist men who will date single mothers who insist on not having sex outside of marriage?

I know the obvious answer - many men believe that if a woman has had sex before, she doesn't have a fair reason to insist on not having sex at all until getting married. I am not trying to offend - I did say MANY not all. And the obvious assumption is that a single mother has had sex before.

But this doesn't explain the total lack of men willing to date single mothers who insist on waiting til marriage for sex.

I know some wonderful women, beautiful inside and out, who are all single mothers who choose to believe in the value of not having sex outside of marriage - many of them have never had sex outside of marriage (having been abandoned by cheating spouses) or at least not consensually (some are single mothers through rape) and some are widows - and of course there are many who have come from a background of having sex outside of marriage and then decided it was not a lifestyle they wanted to live anymore but already had a child before making this decision.

These women have no shortage of male attention - there are so many guys out there who want to be with these women, but when it comes to the crunch, when they find out these women don't "put out", they either ended up not asking them out, or they date them for a while and once they find out these women are serious about not having sex outside of marriage, these guys dump them.

I am not talking about myself - I've only been back on the market less than two months - I joined here last year to make male friends because my violent (now ex) husband used to beat me if I even talked to a single man and after we seperated, I wanted to learn how to have male friends again. To be honest, after all the hell I've been through with him, and seen too many of my other friends abused by men, I'm not even sure if I want to date again.

Although the point remains - despite having lots of offers myself of guys asking me out, once I ask them about their values in regards to respecting a woman's decision not to have sex outside of marriage, I've only met one man in the last ten years (looking for guys to introduce to single friends, not for myself) who is over the age of 21, single and willing to date a single mother who won't have sex outside of marriage (other than my brother). As it is, I've only met one other man over the age of 21 who has been willing to date a woman who isn't virgin but who won't have sex outside of marriage.

I do know a few lovely guys my baby sister's age (around 20-21) who will date a single mother who insists on waiting til marriage, and I know my own brother would date a single mother if he found one his age that had the values he seeks in a woman, and I've heard from a lot of married friends, that if they were single, they would date these women in a heartbeat, but finding a SINGLE guy, who is a real adult (21+) who is willing to wait til marriage for sex with a single mother - or even more importantly for some of my friends who are looking, not only willing to wait, but want to wait....

well it feels like these guys are like unicorns, ie mythical.

if you know of any (or even a guy who is one), feel free to comment. I'm not looking to hear from any particular sort of guy - my friends who are single mothers start at 23yo, another is 32, a cousin's cousin's ex is 45 and a dear friend of my mother's who has been a single mother for nearly 20 years is in her 50s - and there are others (I have an unsually large amount of friends who are single mothers), different backgrounds, different birth countries some of them even, but what they share in common is being a single mother who strongly believes in waiting til sex for marriage and are seeking a guy who feels the same way.

I just want to know if many of these guys exist or is it simply a matter of guys expect a woman who has had sex to eventually have sex with them?

I would ask that people answer the question I am asking and not turn this thread into an attack on single parents not being able to get dates because of something other than the fact of their "single-parent-hood".... I know some people have an attitude that the only reason single parents can't get dates is because of self pity or negativity or whatever, but I know this is not the case with many wonderful single mothers I know and if it's going to turn into putting down single parents who can't get dates, it's not going to answer my question, especially as these women can easily get dates - just not with a man who has the values they seek.
 Flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 181 (view)
 
Child support
Posted: 11/8/2008 7:41:07 AM
mrfixit maybe where you are from things are different, but here, using your delightful terminology which is hardly appropriate knowing that even if a woman took every cent you had, it cannot be compared to the physical rape of anyone (male or female), child support "rapes" people of both genders.

my violent psychotic ex husband i seeking to get every second weekend and half the holidays with our daughter. despite the fact that this would leave me paying ALL of her medical expenses (as her appointments are during the week) and ALL of her schooling expenses (not at all cheap) and I would still have to pay ALL the rent for her room no matter how many nights she spends here or there, and on top of that, as he refuses to buy any clothes or shoes for her (a few times he has left her shoes behind when picking her up, and rather than even spending $2 on a a pair of thongs/flip flops or whatever you call them where you are from, he just takes her around all day barefoot, sending her home with her feet covered in cuts and bruises). Basically his only expense would be to feed her as he doesn't even have a room for her where he lives - just dumps her in his study.

Yet despite this, if we were to have her every second weekend and half the holidays, this somehow pushes him into the threshold of supposed "equal" care. When taking into holidays, adding up the total number of nights per year and then calculating it per fortnight, it would give him 5 nights a fortnight and me 9 nights....

and guess what, if he manages to manipulate the courts into this arrangement, despite him having her one third of the time and less than 5% of her actual expenses (the amount of money it would save me not feeding her days is less than what it costs for me to travel to get her back from his place too), so basically I would have the same expense as if she did not see him at all....

and you know what? so he can have the privilege of abusing her 1/3 of the time (even less considering those 5 nights equate to three and a half days), if I work and he does not, I actually have to PAY HIM for the privilege of three and a half days a fortnight of sickening stress, wondering if my daughter will come home in one piece AND STILL BE LUMPED WITH THE FULL COST OF RAISING HER!!!!

I don't begrudge paying the full cost of raising her - even though she was conceived by spousal rape and I had no say in her conception, I love my daughter 110% and have always taken full responsibility for raising as my ex husband never did in the five years from when she was born til I kicked him out for abusing her too many times.

BUT it completes disgusts me that even though I would still have the full cost of raising her if he gets her every second weekend and half the holidays, I would lose half of the measly amount the government gives to parents to him AND I would have to pay tens of thousands of dollars in child support to him if i work and he doesn't - and I guarantee, with the painful serious back injury he gave me, I am only working because he won't support our daughter - I could quite easily receive a disability pension and not work at all.

So, the short version, a year from now when I graduate university and start working full time, if my ex husband gets every second weekend and half the holidays with our daughter, if he wakes up to the unfair way the new UNfairer child support system they brought in this year works, I will still have the same cost of raising our daughter as that if she were here 100% of the time, while at the same time losing half the meagre family tax benefit to him, AND be paying him about $10,000 a year for the privilege of it - all the while working on a painful busted back in an extremely physical career (nursing in a surgical ward), watching him puff away my hard work through a pipe and what he doesn't spend on his massive drug habit, spending it on buying sex from cheap women.

every day i have to choose between my medical expenses and my daughters - and of course, her expenses always comes first.

so sorry mrfixit, if you're going to offend real rape victims with saying child support is rape... try to remember it's not always men that child support "rapes".

i pray to God every day my violent ex husband doesn't get our daughter overnight ever because I know what he will do to her, but if he does, i will have my daughter 2/3 of the time, and 100% of the cost of raising her, and yet i will be literally physically breaking my back so my ex-husband can blow my money on drugs and sl*ts while our daughter goes without because i don't enough money to pay for all her expenses while the child support agency "rapes" me to support my ex's drug habit.

new "fairer" child support system, my ass.
 Flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 35 (view)
 
Pity for single parents??
Posted: 11/8/2008 7:13:51 AM

Oh my sweet Jesussssssssss, now we (actually YOU, speak for yourselves) cant find dates because of not only being a single mother, but now a christian as well? Do you have any idea how offensive that is?
When i was 19 I knew a pregnant single lady that attended our church and the christian men were FIGHTING to date her. She was beautiful, sweet, great to be around, and never once whined about her status.
Then again she had a lot of qualities attractive to men as well.


So where are all these men?

I never said these men would date men.... I said they wouldn't date ANY single mother for any reason.

What I did say was, despite the fact that I've only been looking at dating since my divorce went through two months ago (before that, I just came here to meet men as friends), I have been helping single parent friends look for boyfriends for nearly a decade - in that entire DECADE I have only found one man willing to date a single mother who insisted on waiting til marriage for sex.

And as for the single pregnant who had the guys at her church flocking to date her.... I can tell you what they had on their minds - the exact same thing the dozens of men throwing themselves at me have - SEX.

They assume that being a single mother, it's easier to get into your pants than other women.

I have no shortage of offers from men - just none that meet my standards.

Please re-read my post and you will see I am not blaming being a single parent at all - in fact it has nothing to do with being a single parent - it has to do with the mindset of most christian men that women who have had sex before, for whatever reason, have no right to ask a guy to wait til marriage for sex - the only thing that being a single parent has to do with it is the obvious - virgin births happen to be quite rare last I heard.

There are some single mothers at my church who have guys fighting over them too - it's because they're an easy lay. Where as there are some beautiful women (beautiful inside and out), who are sweet, great to be around, and who never once whine about their situation who have not had a date in many years - one of my mum's closest friends is one of them. She is a lovely lady, who has never slept around, who only became a single parent because her husband wanted to ship his overseas mistress to australia and couldn't do that unless he were married to her and needed to divorce his wife to remarry.

I think the point of my post was missed - there is a massive lack of christian men who will respect a single mother's choice not to have sex outside of marriage.

it has nothing to do with me, the men who turn down OTHER women for being single mothers.

so sweetnessinthekeys, if you feel the need to repeat yourself, please repeat with a response that is actually related to what i posted...

keep in mind, when talking on this subject, i am not referring to my dating life, but to the dating life of OTHERS, and i am referring to women who do not have sex outside of marriage... and it is quite obvious that a single pregnant 19 year old is going to be perceived as willing to have sex outside of marriage (even if it's not the case - it will be the perception), and that is what attracts men, christian or otherwise, over women who don't put out before marriage.

if you know all these wonderful men who will date single mothers who insist on waiting til marriage for sex, please let me know - I have some very wonderful, kind, gentle, loving women I'd love to introduce them to - they range in age from 23 to 32, and up to 45. Some have one kid, some have up to four. All are beautiful women, good looking on the outside and even more beautiful on the inside - and all get turned down once men find out they won't have sex outside of marriage...

So seriously, if you know of any men who will date a single mother and will wait for sex until marriage, let me know...

Either way, stop putting crap on the women who can't get dates because they are single mothers - because the reality is, they can get dates, but not with guys that are worth dating. anyone can get date - i've met trashy women who belong in a gutter and they can get a man - sadly usually the men belong in the gutter beside them.

keep in mind, when the single mothers who can't get dates talk about not being able to get a date - they don't refer to not being able to get anyone at all - they just refer to not being able to get a man worth having.

but obviously you are too wrapped in putting crap on single mothers in general to listen.

about the only thing in your post that is relevant is the question "do you know how offensive that is"? yes i do know offensive it is - that hypocritical, self-righteous men who claim to be christians, most of whom have had sex themselves, judge a woman for staying true to their values of not having sex outside of marriage - these men will attach themselves like barnacles to single mothers who they think they will get sex from, and disappear if the woman doesn't put out.

do not mistake the so called christian men who chase a single mother who they think they will get sex from, with the situation of single mothers who don't put out.

as for myself... i get more than enough male attention, just i happen to have standards and if it turns out a guy doesn't strongly believe in waiting til marriage, sadly he gets dumped.

To be honest, take the whole single mother thing out the of equation, I've only met a total of two single guys over the age of 21 who believed in waiting til marriage for anyone (other than my brother who obviously doesn't count). The rest who believe in it, are already in relationships or 20 and under.

So anyway, if I haven't got my point across by now, I'm wasting my bandwidth... if you must repeat yourself, please repeat with something relevant, ... and repeating myself so that my point is very clear... keep in mind I am not talking about myself, I am talking about OTHER single mothers; I am not merely talking about women who attend church, I am talking about women who are committed to not having sex outside of marriage; and when I talk about being able to get a date... I don't mean not being able to get a date at all because anyone can date, rather I am referring to not being able to find ANY man who respects their values, even ones who won't date these lovely women.

if you know of such a man who is willing to date a single mother who doesn't put out, i seriously have some lovely friends who would love to meet such a man. such a man is about as easy to find as a unicorn and other such mythical beings.
 Flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 146 (view)
 
Child support as a weapon? Would you date a girl with drama like this?
Posted: 11/8/2008 6:32:36 AM

man i have read alot tonight about these Canada CS laws and i feel really sorry for you guys, seriously.

ok in Australia, my ex tried to threaten that, i rang CS and they point blank said, they can not do it and apparently penalties for doing so and the courts would take that against her if she tried (which she did).

Its wrong, the kids need their parents, many people live on $2 in their pockets but the love from a parent can't be bought!


too bad the damn child support agency in australia can't do a damn thing about men who do not pay child support.

my ex husband and I have been separated for 21 of the last 22 months (we reconciled for a month in the middle but that's all it took for him to go back to his abusive ways).

In that time he has made one single small child support payment - an involuntary payment they took from his tax return that was for money I had actually made that he stole from me during our brief reconciliation (complicated story, but the short version, is they used money I'd made which he stole to pay off a very small amount of his massive debt).

He owes 20.5 months of child support and he has a well paying job, and until just a few weeks was claiming the dole also.

Yet the child support agency can't (or won't) do a thing. *I* am the one who has to keep hunting down where he is working - at my expense - they could do it for free through the tax office but either haven't or really suck at trying to do so. Every time they assess him, he claims he is not working- and then it's up to me to prove that he is - again at my expense.

When they finally process he is working (3 months after I provide the information) they then ask nicely (after nearly two years, you'd think they'd stop asking him to pay anything voluntary), and then when he stuffs them around for months, they finally approach his employer to dock his wages - and the very next day he quits his job and gets another - restarting the process.

All of this end has forced me to go back to uni because I know my ex husband will continue to do this - continually moving and changing jobs so that he continues to get out of paying any child support. Because one of us needs to support our daughter, he never will, and if it were not for the fact that I am at uni, my daughter turns 7 in just a few days, meaning that she is too old for me to receive a sole parent pension, so if I were not at uni, we would not have income as the intensive counselling (mostly to get over being abused by her father) does not allow me to work full time, and part time work without having studied or worked for years already, pays even less than the dole - not enough to raise a child.

It is my daughter my ex husband makes suffer with his refusal to pay child support - even with my scholarship from uni, he earns three times what I do. It is her that misses out on valuable time with me because I have to work to support her because he works and wno't support her.

If he wasn't a violent drug addict, we could share custody and I could work when he was with her, but he is a violent drug addict, and refuses to get help for his violence, his mental illness or his drug addiction. And the two half days he has with her - there is no way I could work - the stress of it leaves me physically ill, worrying if this will be the time he seriously injures or even kills her.

There are some people (and that includes women, as my ex husband's main mistress is even more sick and violent than he is) who should never be allowed near their kids - but there is never any excuse not to financially support one's child.

No kid should ever have to grow up with next to no parents, because one abusive parent can't be trusted near their child, but at the same time refuses to support their child so the loving parent is forced to work to simply keep a roof over their child's head, but while taking the time away from their child to do so.

Sure, the loving parent suffers being dragged away from their child, and the abusive parent may absolutely relish this idea and be glad of it - but ultimately, it's the child that suffers even more, and what kind of sick parent relishes something that makes their child suffer?

That's what my ex husband does... he relishes the fact that I have to work to support our child while he works to support his drug habit, but he couldn't care less what this does to our daughter, and how she needs me at home more often to cope with recovering from the trauma of years of being abused by him physically, verbally and more.
 Flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 145 (view)
 
Child support as a weapon? Would you date a girl with drama like this?
Posted: 11/8/2008 6:02:04 AM
I just find it sad that when a battered wife kicks out a violent man who has spent years beating her and their kids, that these b*****ds often turn around and accuse these poor women of using the kids as pawns, and accuse these poor women of being sick and twisted.

I mean, I know some pretty sick and twisted women who use and abuse their kids - don't get me wrong on that one.

But there are far too many child abusers out there who don't see anything wrong with having bashed their kids for years, and when a woman finally takes the kids and escapes, these guys are so full of indignation that their punching bags finally left, and so totally lacking of understanding that beating women and children is wrong, these sickos actually accuse these poor women who have done nothing except try to protect their kids from violent abusers, of being the bad guys and using the kids as pawns.

I should know - my sicko violent ex husband loves pulling this trick on anyone who will listen. He beat our daughter for years, and because I insist his visits with our daughter be supervised - which I frequently point out to him is purely because he is a violent junkie with a mental illness he refuses to take his meds for - he then goes around claiming I won't let him see our daughter (which is entirely not true) and that I'm using her as a pawn (also entirely untrue).

I even offered to bring our daughter to him on Father's day as he was carrying on how important it was to him (never was before). He deliberately keeps moving further and further away from where we live and while I'm at uni, my only income is a very small pension and very small scholarship - yet despite the fact he was working and claiming the dole, I still offered to pay the cost of getting her to him.

He made a big deal to her, saying he was going to see her - simply so he could make it look like he wanted to see her.

AND THEN HE CRUSHED HER INTO A MILLION TINY PIECES BY REFUSING TO SEE HER.

why? so he could lie to all his mates and lie to the magistrate in our custody case and claim that I had stopped him from seeing her. Thank goodness I kept the smses showing that I repeatedly offered him the chance to see her for the day - and at my expense. So if he does pull the crap he's threatened at the next hearing, it will show he's a lying piece of crap who deliberately refused to see her so he could claim I wouldn't let him see her.

Our daughter has aspergers and cannot cope when he blows off a visit he has a promised with her.

Beware the man who accuses his ex of using the kids as a pawn - there are many of these women out there, but there are also many men out there like my ex husband who abuse their kids and then accuse their poor ex of using the kids as a pawn when they are merely trying to protect the kids from a violent child abuser.
 Flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 144 (view)
 
Child support as a weapon? Would you date a girl with drama like this?
Posted: 11/8/2008 5:50:05 AM
In case my final point was missed, I wanted to say....

Child support as a weapon can go both ways.

There are too many violent child abusers - including men who have spent years beating their young kids and even doing sick sexual things - who attempt to use child support as a weapon.

With the insane rules in Australia where single parents have welfare cut off when their child turns 7 - and having a child with mild to moderate disabilities, even when it can be shown the child needs a parent at home, is still not sufficient for centrelink to continue welfare for a sole parent past 7 - some people (usually women) are trapped into the situation where they have to give into blackmail by violent exes to hand the child over to the violent parent (usually father) weekends and holidays, simply because this is the only way to keep a roof over the child's head and food in their belly.

The other alternative is to end up homeless - and I have seen this happen to far too many women.

The give into the blackmail of a violent ex who continues to abuse both them and the child, as it's the only way to keep the child housed and fed, or they literally end up homeless - living in cars, living on the floors of friends' houses, living in shelters.

So please keep in mind - child support as a weapon goes both ways.

The reality is though, no parent should be put in the situation where they have to say "pay child support or you can't see your child" as any loving parent will financially their child, and only abusive ones refuse.
 Flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 143 (view)
 
Child support as a weapon? Would you date a girl with drama like this?
Posted: 11/8/2008 5:43:34 AM
Despite my ex husband not paying a cent of child support despite being a dole bludger (ie claiming the full amount of welfare for the unemployed) while at the same time working, he knows he can have supervised access to our daughter any time he wants - any day of the week, any reasonable time of the day.

And I would offer unsupervised visits any times he wants except he has a serious personality disorder he refuses to take his medications for, he takes a massive amount of illegal drugs on a daily basis and has gone from beating the crap out of my daughter and I for years but at least being sorry after, to now proudly boasting he has done nothing wrong beating the crap out of us for years, and claiming that I've "abused" him when I pressed charges of assault when he beat the living daylights out of me when I was pregnant, killing our precious little girl - after we had been seperated nearly a month - all because he came back demanding money for drugs and I had nothing to give him - no money, and nothing left to give him to take to pawn for drugs as he'd taken everything of any value when I kicked him out.

He goes around saying that he's done nothing wrong killing our little girl because he didn't know I was pregnant when he beat the crap out of me (because I knew if I had told him, he'd have come back and beaten me up with the sole purpose of killing her), he goes around saying he's done nothing after he bashed me in the back of the head with a baseball because he claims he didn't mean to hit me quite that hard, .... and on and on with his BS about his violence being normal behaviour and nothing wrong.

And yet, he is allowed supervise visits with our daughter any time he wants, and if he ever gets help for the drugs, violence and mental illness, he can have unsupervised access any time he likes...

BUT he gets that because I am a generous person and care about what happens to him because after his mother died, I took on the role of mother to him and put his interests ahead of anyone - except our child who will come first no matter what.

He DOESN'T get that access to our daughter because he deserves it, nor because it is good for her. He doesn't deserve it, and it's not particularly good for her.

It comes down to there are people out there who don't deserve access to their child - those who abuse their child.

And there are circumstances where not paying child support is abusing a child.

And I know my ex-husband's choice to blow his welfare money (which is a crime for him to even be receiving while working) and his pay cheque on drugs instead of the tiny pitiful amount he is ordered to pay in child support (about one third of the minimum amount he spends on drugs every single week), IS abusing our daughter and due to the circumstances of the situation, if I didn't care about my ex-husband's welfare, IS more than enough moral grounds to tell him he can't see her.

It may not be legal, but what is moral and what is legal are sometimes the complete opposite.

But out of concern and care for my ex-husband, he has free access to supervised access to our daughter (because as much as I care about him, I'm not going to endanger her safety or her life just to help him).

Here where I am, they cut off the sole parent payments when a child turns 7. Sole parents are then forced to either look for work (while receiving the dole which is significantly less than the sole parent pension and nowhere near enough to raise a child on) or to get work - and considering a great lack of a childcare (and our biggest childcare chain just collapsed), some women are forced into situations where they have to leave a 7 year old child in long day care, working jobs that pay little better than the dole (as dear old centrelink says you must take any job offered, even if it pays no more than the dole and the hours are unsuitable for a parent).

And while I would choose to live on the street before leaving a 7 year old child at home - for many single parents, they are faced with that choice when their child hits 7 - they either have to leave their young child at home for several hours before and after school, or they end up living in cars, or being bounced around between family and friends who let them stay for short periods - either way, being homeless.

I am lucky, I am a miser and I live in government funded housing, so despite my ex-husband's attempt to use child support as a weapon to get his hands on unsupervised access to our daughter so he can go back to beating her unchecked, I have so far managed to escape his attempt to wield child support as a weapon.

Child support being used as a weapon goes both ways.... I know I would never date a man who even for a second considered not paying his child support - even if he has an ex who won't let him see the kid without a good reason.

It's child abuse to not pay child support, and even if an ex won't let someone see a child, it's not an excuse.
 Flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 30 (view)
 
Pity for single parents??
Posted: 11/8/2008 5:19:41 AM

I'm not one for pity, but to others who post that they can't find dates due to having kids either are seeking attention or are too focused on negativity than positivity in moving on. Not to mention, may have a low self esteem so they want that attention and wondering what they are doing wrong, who knows.


Actually I find this statement to be a load of crap sorry....

That may be the case for many single mothers who can't find a date, but it is a mere generalisation and does not apply to all.

There are quite a lot of single mothers in the church I attend, and not being able to find a date comes down to one thing - and it has nothing to do with being attention seeking or negativity.

It has to do with these women wanting to find a good christian man to marry, and they are not willing to sacrifice their core values simply to get a date.

There is an attitude amongst many christian men that single mothers are second rate human beings simply because they are single mothers - they do not care that some of these women are single mothers through being widowed, or through being raped, or all too often, from being abandoned by a cheating husband. Or while others are single mothers because they have had sex outside of marriage willingly, these women have turned their back on that path and now believe in waiting til marriage.

Yet they are repeatedly turned down by men for one of two reasons - either because the man claiming to be christian demands the woman "put out" or be dumped (or not dated in the first place) or because they assume the woman is a sl*t and refuse to date her.

Talking to the single parents in my church, we have only ever come across one man who both respected our choice not to have sex outside of marriage, who was also willing to date a single mother - and ONLY because he was a single parent too.

They say the word "assume" means to make an "ass" out of "u" and "me" (put "ass" "u" "me" together). Do not automatically assume a single parent who can't find a date is seeking attention or negative - there could be any number of reasons they can't find a date - they may have certain standards in men, or they may even simply be living somewhere where there are not many single guys around and not be able to move, or any one of a number of reasons.

Sometimes I think other single parents are the most harshest judges of other single parents.
 Flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 24 (view)
 
For moms who lost kids in custody battle
Posted: 11/8/2008 5:08:40 AM
my (now ex) husband's main mistress lost her daughter because she abused her and is a drug addict and has a personality disorder.

Her poor ex boyfriend went through hell though - he had to literally skip the state and run with their daughter to protect their poor daughter from her psycho mother.

Of course now the laws here have changed, and while that psycho can't get her own daughter back (yet - and hopefully never), the court stupidly lets her have my daughter every second week and no one cares what the abusive psychopath and my equally abusive psychopathic ex husband does to my daughter on their visits.

The problem being I can't prove who is actually abusing our daughter as she is too scared to talk - my ex husband could have gone back to abusing her (then again, what he is already doing is abuse enough), his psycho mistress could be abusing her (she's threatened to bash my poor little girl enough times - I just can't get a clear recording as she hurls the threats in the background when I'm talking on the phone to my ex husband and my voice recorder doesn't pick up background noise) or anyone of their violent drug addict friends could be abusing her - and without proof of WHO is abusing her, no one will act, and I've been told by lawyer after lawyer, if I don't hand my daughter over, I run the risk of them getting shared custody instead of 8 hours every second saturday and sunday - ie allowing even more severe abuse to occur - because I know my ex husband after more than ten years together, and if he were to get our daughter overnight on the weekend he has her, he wouldn't be able to control his violent tendencies enough not to seriously harm her.

I mean hey, I know first hand that sometimes they take kids from loving parents and hand them over to violent child abusers, even paedophiles, simply because they have a good expensive lawyer or like a lot of personality disorder sufferers like my ex husband and main mistress, some people like them are supremely good at lying, and even if they've spent six years beating the crap out of someone, they will pretend they are the victim and can con some people some of the time.

All you can do is hope and pray that you get a smart magistrate and if your ex has a personality disorder like mine, you hope and pray you get a magistrate who is trained and/or knowledgable of how these chameleons pretend to be wonderful parents in court and then beat their children behind closed doors.

Sadly that's all you can do sometimes - hope and pray that the magistrate who decides your custody case does the right thing by your child.
 Flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 1047 (view)
 
full-time single dads
Posted: 11/8/2008 4:57:00 AM

i am a full-time single dad and i'm wondering if there are any other single dads out there? it seems like i am the only one....and ladies how do you feel about single dads?


It all comes down to why a man is a single dad.

I don't date men who have sex outside of marriage, or men who left a marriage for any reason other than cheating or abuse.

Whether or not they have kids doesn't come into it for me.

I know there are single dads out there who don't have sex outside of marriage and whose reason for leaving a marriage was cheating or abuse or both - and I would happily date men in this situation - in fact, I would find such a man probably the most worthy of being dated.

Basically, whether or not a man has kids doesn't even come into the equation when I'm considering dating a man - it all comes down to his attitude on sex and marriage.
 Flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 506 (view)
 
Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 11/8/2008 4:51:45 AM

I was accused of PAS by my ex because he had to go to court and explain why he pointed a gun at our daughter. He was grasping at anything he could accuse me of and not have to be accountable for. He had a lot of trouble proving it especially after a letter was put into proof that he wrote, lying to our daughter about what really happened between us. He was accusing me of the very thing he was doing. I HAVE NEVER SAID A BAD WORD ABOUT HIM TO THE KIDS! They found him to have a narcissistic personality disorder on top of his addictions to porn alcohol and drugs. I had never heard of PAS until then. I truly believe a child needs both parents as long as one is not dangerous and their stability is in the best interest of the children. You should see the damage he has done to our kids because he cried PAS! He ended up getting supervised visitations with the kids and it has been more damaging to their relationship because they were forced to be with their aggressor. All of my kids have been in counseling for this and to learn to cope with their dads mental illness/personality disorder.


Sadly I copped this crap from my (now ex) husband and his sociopath main mistress.

Some people are just psychotic liars.

Actually the bigger stunt they tried to pull was to claim that I was abusing our daughter after she spent time with my husband and his mistress because I didn't like her spending time with my husband's mistress - they neglected to actually say SHE HAD NEVER EVEN MET MY HUSBAND'S MISTRESS!!!

SO THERE WAS NO WAY MY DAUGHTER COULD BE HAVING ANYTHING HAPPEN TO HER AFTER VISITS WITH HIS MISTRESS BECAUSE SHE WASN'T VISITING HIS MISTRESS.

For the six years the lying sociopath pretended to be my friend, she did not meet her even once - while I am a firm believer that people deserve a second chance, and therefore I befriended someone who I knew had abused their child (hoping to help her get own life back together and show her how to be a good mother), but I'm not willing to giving anyone a second chance around my daughter - so I kept this woman away from my daughter. I wish I'd kept keeping her away from my husband too as she started her sexual relationship with him the second time she ever met him.

So when we went to court over custody, my husband's mistress had never even met our daughter when she made claims of her "fears" of what was going on after "visits". (My now-ex husband had not had a chance to expose our daughter to this psychopath as he was limited to supervised visits with our daughter due to his abuse of her).

Basically, my point was there are some dangerously mentally ill sociopaths out there, whether they have Narcissistic PD like the husband of the person I'm replying to, or Borderline PD like my ex husband or Anti-social PD like his violent mistress, they will do and say anything to get custody of a child - a child that if they truly loved, they'd admit their presence was bad for their child and walk away.

There are even some sickos like my ex husband's mistress who are so desperate to "own" a child - usally to replace their own child who they have had taken away - that they will latch on to a mentally unwell man with a child, and do and say anything to make that child "theirs".

My ex husband and I had seperated before (due to his abuse of our daughter, not because of the fact that he was involved with multiple women - I only found that out after I kicked the b*****d out) and after a couple of weeks of seperation, he totally lost interest in our daughter. The same applies now - even on his visits he dumps her in the front of the tv while he uses drugs with his mates. He doesn't even want to have her. But during our reconciliation when my "friend" convinced him I was cheating on him (a total lie because I would never do such a thing, but he believed her because he knew I trusted her with everything and therefore he assumed I must have told her the lies she claimed about me), and in the end she broke us up by, when I found out she was screwing him, she claimed it was only once and that he had raped her - and with his history of having done it to me during our marriage, I foolishly believed her.

My sociopath former friend is so desperate to get her hands on a child to replace the daughter she had removed, she has forced my ex husband through the custody process even though even now, on visits he hardly interacts with our daughter, and only rarely calls during the times he is supposed to call our daughter (he has called once out of his last 8 assigned phone call times - but that is partially because his main mistress actually stops him from calling and makes him hang up if our daughter calls him - SHE wants our daughter, but doesn't want him interacting with her much in case he decides being with our daughter is more important than being with his mistress and leaces her and tries to come crawling back to me - a mistake I won't make twice).

What makes me so sad and angry is the courts force kids back into the hands of parents who have abused them (and the sickos who these parents get involved with sexually).

It took 18 months of counselling for our daughter to start getting over the abuse her father did to her, and in the space four short months, this has all been undone by a stupid magistrate who believes shared care is more important than the safety of a child.

The only other thing I can think of to say is my ex husband too lies to our daughter about why we split up. In fact, every time he sees her, when she asks him why he can't come home, he lies to her.

Sadly, unless you've seen in action, people don't know he's lying as his lies sound so believable. He forever lies to our daughter (and everyone else), that he left me (not true - the reason we originally separated was because he beat the crap out of me after he belted our daughter in the head for no reason and I asked him to apologise to her - as well as the kiddy porn stash of his I found on his computer just days before) and that he left because we were "always" arguing (another lie... unless you count "arguing" as him coming home, demanding money I didn't have as he'd take it all on payday - my payday too - so that he could buy drugs, and then demanding I go "borrow" money off my parents who don't work as my mum is disabled and my dad is her carer, money which he never paid back, and then when I'd try to explain my poor parents have no money to borrow, him beating the living daylights out of me because he "needed" drugs and it was my "duty" according to him to get him money to get some) .... oh of course too there were just the times he beat the crap out of me because I attended uni and even though there are no guys in any of my classes (being a female dominated profession) according to him, if I was out of the house without him, I must be sleeping with other men and he had to beat the "truth" out of me .... that's his version of "arguing" all the time.

I obviously don't tell my daughter half the reason I kicked her father out was because of his child porn stash - she's too young for that. But if I dare try to set her straight when she comes home every visit abusing me because my ex husband has convinced her that he left because he had to "escape" the "abuse" he was suffering (mind you, he honestly believes he was "abused" - the "abuse" he claims to have suffered is that I went to the police about his violence and according to him I've committed the ultimate, completely unforgivable sin for going to the police to press charges of assault when he beat me so badly he killed our unborn baby), he tries to claim I'm lying to our daughter, that I'm trying to alienate him, etc etc etc.... When he's the one lying to her, and he's the one pretending to be the victim.

All I tell her is that I had to ask her father to leave because he hit her in the head - I don't even mention the fact that be beat me senseless that day or that he came back and killed her poor unborn sister three weeks later because he wanted money for drugs and I didn't have anything to give him.

I just wish the courts would wake up to violent psychopaths like my ex husband. It tooks me a whole year and a half to start getting our daughter back on track, and now I watch as he destroys the hard work done by her, her counsellor and myself, all because he and his mistress want to "own" a child, and since she is not allowed her's, then mine will do for them.

It's sick and it's sad.
 Flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 505 (view)
 
Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 11/8/2008 4:20:06 AM

What if one parent or the other has substance abuse issues, untreated mental health problems, is abusive in some way, is irresponsible or is involved in illegal activities ?


All of the above apply in my ex husband's case - he is a drug addict who admits to the family court he uses drugs EVERY day (and turns up for his access visits smashed off his face and uses drugs with our daughter there).

He has an untreated serious personality disorder which leads to sudden violent psychotic rages for little or even no reason at all (although usually triggered when he is coming down and wants to get high but can't - but even when he's off drugs, when he's not taking his medication he still has the violent sudden rages).

He is abusive having belted me around since our daugher was conceived - may I add, that her conception was through spousal rape. And he began belting our daughter as soon as she started walking and talking.

And his illegal activities are too numerous for a post like this.

Sadly he is also living with a sociopath (in the literal, diagnosable, sense of the word) who is the same but worse - a drug addict abusing illegal drugs, alcohol and prescription meds, diagnosed with the same personality disorder as my ex husband, involved in all his illegal activities and so violent she was forbidden from seeing her daughter for years and is currently only allowed supervised access to her poor daughter she abused badly.

Since them gaining unsupervised access to my six year old daughter, she has alternated between being fearful and being abusive herself, she has been lying and doing things behind my back (something that has never occurred before), she has been acting out sexually (something a 6 year old should not even think of to do), she refuses to sleep anywhere but in whichever room I am in when it's her bedtime (or when she spends some time with my parents, she demands to have someone in the room with her at all times).

Gone is the happy little girl that I had when she had no contact with her father or the occasional supervised visit.

I don't know whether it is my ex husband or his mistress or one of their many violent drug addicted friends who is abusing her - but my ex husband knows someone is - he has proudly boasted he doesn't care that his main mistress has threatened violence against our daughter many times - but someone is abusing our daughter and sadly court orders force her into this situation and the police and DOCS claim there is nothing I can do and if I don't hand her over, it apparently gives him ammunition to get even more time to abuse our daughter.

I am sorry, but I am definitely AGAINST shared parenting as a blanket rule - if a parent is a drug addict, or has any illness (mental or physical) they refuse to get treated, or has abused their child (my ex husband not only spent years bashing our daughter but I found his sick sexually inappropriate pictures he took of her and shared with others online - sadly he destroyed the evidence when I discovered it just days before I booted his sorry a** out for backhanding our daughter in the head for no reason) - or of course anyone who is involved in illegal activity (while my ex husband's centrelink fraud won't hurt our daughter, couriering drugs between his dealer and his mates with our daughter going along for the ride as he does is hurting her).... if people are involved in ANY of these abusive activities, they should not be allowed unsupervised access to a child.

No child should be forced into the custody of an abuser just for the sake of pushing the agenda of shared care. Shared care is not always best and I do not support anything or anyone who pushes shared cared at the expense of the safety of a child.
 flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 94 (view)
 
Domestic violence and the legal system...How has it treated you?
Posted: 7/24/2008 2:36:32 AM

So many women I have met, do not believe in the "system", nor do I.
Women are being killed by husbands, boyfriends, exes, etc, after numerous calls to the police, and restraining orders, etc. Then the courts happily give the children to the men that did this. I get physically sick--seriously--when I hear another case.

I believe there are a few men who can be abused by the women, but so many men are using the system against the women who have been trying to protect themselves or their children.


That's why I stayed despite years of abuse ( see above post) - my husband bashed me for years and started in our daughter and yet the courts have handed her over to him and his abusive mistress who had her own child taken away because of her abusiveness.

As for the bit about men using the system (and yes this does go both ways and isn't just men vs women), all too often abusers like my husband manipulate the police and courts into pretending he is somehow the victim - even when they could see I had massive injuries and was recovering from surgery that left me completely unable to do anything, they still believed his pretense of being the victim. Even with medical reports from my GP about the injuries, they still fell for his lies.

The system is set up to help the abusers and further victimise victims - of either gender. and the system just keeps getting worse.
 flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 93 (view)
 
Domestic violence and the legal system...How has it treated you?
Posted: 7/24/2008 2:21:22 AM
Why do (some) women stay?

for the kids.

I know it goes against what some people think but let me share my situation....

When I stayed with my husband, his violent psychotic rages were 99% aimed at me. If he did become violent towards our daughter, I could physically step in and take the beating for her, so at most she might only get hit once or twice.

He eventually got bored of bashing me and moved in with someone who I thought was a close "friend" (a woman who knew he'd been bashing me, sometimes, quite badly for six years when she began her pathetic affair with him - not to mention she knew about him abusing our daughter and despite having a daughter the same age, she couldn't care less - so it probably makes sense when you then hear she had her daughter taken from her due to her abuse - she thinks violence and abuse is acceptable in relationships). And then exactly what I thought would happen, did happen.

He went from not wanting to spend a second with our daughter despite me begging him to, he suddenly was demanding 50/50 custody.

Despite his long and sordid history of bashing me for years, including hundreds of police call outs, several domestic violence orders and further convictions for violating those orders - including the last one where he plead guilty to bashing our daughter in the head (the reason I asked him to temporarily move out and why he ran off with one of his many mistresses), the family court in it's infinite stupidity have granted him unsupervised access to our daughter every second weekend.

I stayed because as long as he lived here, he wanted nothing to do with our daughter, and had me to use as his punching bag and I could step in and take the beating when he started belting our daughter around. Now our daughter has no such protection.

He lives with a women who has said she thinks bashing partners and children is "normal" and "acceptable" and "everyone does it" (maybe in her f***ed up world tey do, but doesn't make it right or normal). She has threatened to harm my daughter herself and has said on multiple occasions that if he bashes our daughter, no matter how badly, not only will she ignore it, but she will actively cover up whatever he does because in her twisted mind, if you "love" someone, you cover up their violent acts against their children.

My daughter has gone to their hellhole twice now and each time has come home traumatised. She hasn't been bashed yet, but she's been subjected to other sorts of abuse. Each time she has come home and had an asthma attack because they insist on smoking with her right beside them. And the list goes on.

He has actually admitted in court he smokes drugs EVERY day and at a rate which is quite high (although still only 20-25% of what he actually uses and doesn't mention the pills he pops - or the fact he lives with a woman who is a junkie who abuses both illicit drugs and prescription drugs and alcohol). He turns up to pick up our daughter absolutely high as anything. Yet the court won't order drug testing - nor will the cops get off their lazy butts and arrest him for drugs.

So despite his 15 year history of drug use (only getting off when we were dating/engaged to trick me into marrying him), his long history with the police for bashing me and more recently his history with them of abusing our daughter, the fact he lives with a psychopath who had multiple and long hospital admissions last year for her personality disorder, a psychopath who thinks partner bashing and child beating are acceptable, a psychopath who has had her own daughter the same age removed from her due to abuse, whose own parents don't think she should have her daughter, not to mention his personality disorder and psychoses, the violent sudden rages that come from nowhere and the paranoid delusions he suffers from.... all of this and the stupid family court has granted him every second weekend with working towards equal shared custody....

the department of child safety know his history and won't do a thing. they know the history of the women he lives with and despite their insistence she can't have her daughter, won't stop her from being let near my daughter despite her serious threats made against my daughter. they've said that one of them has to be caught abusing my daughter again before they'll step in - now considering both of them will cover up for the other, and my poor little girl is only six and has communication problems due to the previous abuse and doesn't even report abuse (she got bullied at school for more than a year before myself and her teacher found out because she won't speak up when abused), the poor little thing won't even say she is being abused and no one else is there to speak out.

this is why i stayed despite years of serious abuse, including having my husband tried to kill me and the many many times he tried to deliberately leave me alive but with injuries meant to put me in a wheelchair.

because my poor little girl is in grave danger. because every second weekend i worry to the point of vomitting about whether this will be the time i get the call that she has been beaten to death or is "only" seriously injured.

as long as is stayed with him, she was safe.

i'd die to save my little girl, taking a beating every couple of days to protect her from being the one to get those beatings, is a sacrifice i'd make any day.

i can't speak to why some other women stay - i've been through many different reasons myself. at first i thought it was only a once off, then i thought a good wife stays no matter what, part of it was because when i went to the cops, when they were cooperative all they did was give him a fine for the violence which he forced me to pay for him (with threats of "if you don't pay, i'll go to jail, without my income you'll end up out on the streets" which sadly was true because the injuries he gave me at the time stopped me from working). but towards the end, when we moved into a different area, different cops, he conned them into thinking he was the victim - even when they could see my injuries they were the ones to make up excuses for him ("oh that's just an old injury" even when my GP confirmed it was not). I went through a period where I was scared if I left he would kill me - even the first time he ran off with a mistress he was threatening to kill any man who even looked at me - and me if I looked back.

But in the end, it just came down to the situation I am now - our courts here don't seem to care about a man who bashes his wife and kids and who admits to heavily using drugs and who lives with a child abuser who has had their own child taken away. my daughter is in danger and neither the legal system or child protective services will step in and do anything.

that's why i stayed - because my daughter is in grave danger and I have no options - except to go on the run with her, because if I don't hand her over to him, the police can arrest me and take her to him, which gives him even more power the next time we are supposed to go to court. And going on the run is no life for a child, even to protect them from a violent pair of monsters.

Hope that answers why some people stay.
 flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 28 (view)
 
Domestic Violence
Posted: 4/28/2008 8:16:58 AM
anyone who says a woman chooses to be with a man who beats them has NO understanding of domestic violence at all.

for some women, they come from being abused as kids, they know no other life but being bashed. they think its normal for a man to beat his wife and kids. some women in this situation don't even know that escape is even possible.

and it's not women of below average intelligence - there are some highly educated, intelligent women who have been so badly abused their entire lives that they think their treatment is normal, that it happens to everyone

others have such low self esteem from abuse, that even though they know it's not what other people have, they think it's how they are supposed to be treated and that they'd be wrong/bad/evil to try and leave.

other are simply trapped. some are disabled and are physically reliant on others and simply cannot get help. and please, don't insult reality by pretending otherwise.

i know because i was in that situation. once you have kids, there is NO services available to help disabled women with kids i they throw their violent husband out. no one to take me to my medical appointments, no one to take my daughter to her's. no one to take her to school (she started a month after i threw the creep out), no one to babysit when i was in too much pain to do anything.

no financial support beyond the pension, which, with the debts he ran up in my name before i had to kick him out, doesn't even pay the bills. no way to work to pay the bills. no child support becuase every time the CSA managed to locate where he was working, he'd quit again and claimed he'd only been there a few days (despite that being untrue, they'd never chase it up).

there were simply no servi ces out there to help. i spent a fortune i didn't have in calls, calling every agency in this state, and yet none were quite able to help.

quite simply with disabled women, many have the choice of staying with their abuser, or if they are "lucky" go into care and have their child fostered out, or if they are unlucky, go into care and have their child handed over to the violent father they are trying to protect their child from.

which leads me to the reason many women, quite justifiably, stay. two reasons. first is that they know if they stay, the guy might rough them up, but if they leave, the guy will kill them. and this happens. if you think domestic violence laws protect women, you are sorely mistaken. all DVO do is allow the police to have one more charge to charge someone with after they've killed the spouse who dare leave.

and then there is women in my situation.... as long as I was with my husband, 99% of the time he was only interested in bashing me. he couldn't care less about our daughter. he only ever tried to hurt her if i begged him to look after her so i could go to uni or doctor's appointments or similar. the rest of the time, he didn't want to know. i couldn't get him to spend time with her even if i begged. but i knew, the instant i kicked him out, he'd demand shared custody. not because he loved our daughter or wanted her as his daughter, but to be spiteful, to prove that she was HIS toy and not mine and he could take her and do whatever he liked whenever he liked, that she was his cute little mini-me that he could parade around like a prized pet and then go beat behind closed doors.

as long as he was with us, he wanted nothing to do with her, now that i've kicked him out, he's fighting tooth and nail for shared custody.

and before you think "oh he won't get any custody, he's a drug addict, he's been convicted of domestic violence, he's living with a woman who has had her own child removed for abuse by her, drugs were found in his house just recently", that idea is so wrong. i don't come from money, i gave up studying medicine for him, my injuries prevent me from working for the short term, all i got is legal aid for a lawyer. and my lawyer just wants to give him shared custody and won't even bother fighting. i can't request another lawyer because their policy is, if you don't like your legal aid lawyer's advice than pay for your own.

i even spoke to a counsellor at the court because i was so angry that my lawyer wants to do that and i can't afford another, and the counsellor (someone who is supposed to be neutral) said, these days, it wouldn't matter if he had a police record a mile long for bashing children, these days they just automatically assume shared custody, and unless he'd actually molested our daughter and i could prove it (the violence apparently means nothing), and done it recently, the court will give him shared custody. i tried saying, i know him, without me there to protect her when he flies into his violent psychotic rages, and with a slut mistress who actually encourages his violent rages and said she'll "support" him no matter what he does to our daughter, even if he kills her, who has said she won't stop him from doing anything to our daughter if she is there as well, that its "none of her business" if he bashes his daughter in front of her, my poor daughter more than likely won't last a single visit without serious injury or worse, end up dead.

but apparently none of it matters. neither the courts nor DOCS will do anything until AFTER he seriously injures our daughter. and too late if he injures her permanently or kills her. not to mention the emotional scars of any abuse that can last for life.

no, sorry, anyone who says a woman chooses to stay with a man who beats them, has no idea. no idea at all. some think its normal, some are so abused they think they deserve it and are bad if they leave, for others they know if they leave they'll end up on the streets or worse, and others are too scared that they or their kids will be killed if they try to leave - and with the absolutely crap legal system here, it happens, far too much. it's a real fear for some women.

the police can't or won't do anything many times either. even when you walk in covered in injuries, they refuse to press charges, coming out with nonsense like "you could have done that to yourself" or similar garbage, when you kick the **stards out and they and their friends and mistress ring you up and make death threats and hurl abuse, all they can say is "you can't prove they made threats", so you take in the threats made by email, with proof it came from their computer, all the police can say is "we'll get back to you" and no matter how many times you chase them up, they still have done nothing.

until the legal system and police can genuinely protect abused women, when their enough shelters for women to turn to, when disabled women and particularly disabled women with kids, have services that can help them, then you can say women choose to stay.

but most women, don't choose. it's the "choice" of default. there is no where for them to go where both they and their kids will be safe. its stay or live on the streets, it's stay or live in fear they or their kids will be killed when the guy finds them, it's stay or know their kid will end up in foster care because their are no services for single disabled mothers, or stay because the legal system will hand their kid over to their violent half the time if they do manage to leave.

no sorry, women dont' stay because they choose. they stay because there is nothing to choose that doesn't put them in an even worse situation.

rather than make women who already have had their self esteem battered for too long, sometimes their entire life, feel even more like crap and blame them for ending up in a situation not one of them asked for, how about putting that energy into campaigning for better services for victims of domestic violence, campaign for more shelters, campaign for help for women who are disabled or from non english speaking backgrounds or from other cultures, campaign for a legal system to be a justice system where courts don't hand over kids to violent parents and where the cops can do something about violent spouses other than give them a fine which is meaningless and nine times out of ten, the victim is forced to pay the fine to appease the abuser.

get out there and instead of making abused women feel like crap, make people understand that domestic violence is ALWAYS wrong, that the only person who chooses it is the abuser doing it. that no one deserves it. that women should be feel free to stay in any relationship without fear of violence.

the main reason why there is so such much domestic violence is because of this whole culture of blaming the victim. it is never the victim's fault.

don't make excuses for violent men. a woman should feel safe to stay with anyone without any fear of abuse at all.

so many people turn a blind eye to domestic violence. as long as they're not the one being bashed, it's not important to them. even when they know a friend or family member is bashing their wife and/or kids, they make excuses for not saying anything. "it's none of my business" "i can't stop them" "if they wanted my help they'd ask'. and the rest of the BS excuses they come up with.

domestic violence is everyone's business, everyone wants help but are usually too scared to ask or even too scared to want to ask, and yes, everyone can stop an abuser. you go to the police, you refuse to be friends with them, you confront them, whatever it takes to stop them abusing people.

although i'm probably just wasting my time. people rarely change their attitude towards making a difference for abuse victims.
 flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 28 (view)
 
Does it have to be this way. Men get broken hearts too
Posted: 4/28/2008 7:30:15 AM
I'm sorry but that sounds like you're justifying violence against women "because they deserve it" because of all the complaints about men being pigs.

I'm sorry but there is NEVER any excuse to abuse a woman, physically or mentally. Even if the guy has been abused all his life by women, that doesn't give him the right to go and find some innocent woman to go take out his anger on.

And before you jump on me, this applies both ways. There is never any excuse to abuse anyone.

But talking about why SOME men are pigs and cheaters and wife beaters and dogs... it's a big leap to say that women are men bashing because they talk about men who have been pigs, cheaters and dogs.

Some men are pigs and dogs, just as some women are homewrecking, sl**ty trash.

The reality is, there are few genuinely nice people of either gender. When I finally spoke out about my husband's violence, all his friends fell into categories - those who actively support wife beating and who said that any woman who dares speak out against being abused "needs a good beating to be put back in her place", and those who denied it because my husband is funny and popular and supposedly people who are popular and outgoing couldn't possibly be wife beaters and child abusers behind closed doors. His female friends think it's ok to sleep with married men and do everything they can to break up their "friend's" marriage to get the guy to be with them.

As for one comment, in the post I'm replying to, I find it highly offensive. the poster assumes that in a break up the woman must have done something wrong. I'm sorry, but in my situation with my husband, I did NOTHING wrong, unless of course you include spoiling a man by worshipping him day and night, being his slave, even going without food and medication so he could blow the money on drugs, partying and buying and writing off cars, as something "wrong".

I even gave up a career as a doctor for him. I often went without food because he'd take all my pay and blow it on drugs. I said nothing when he bashed me on a regular basis. I only spoke out in the end when he started bashing our daughter, smoked drugs in the same room as her with all his mates joining (despite our daughter being asthmatic) and I found a whole heap of child pornography on our computer he'd downloaded.

I did everything for that lazy creep. Even when he didn't have a job, I worked 35 hours a week around 34 hours at uni and 15 hours travelling time a week, and came home and did all the housework for him and his lazy mate who he moved in to drugs with. When our daughter came along, i had to give up studying medicine because despite the fact he was unemployed, he refused to look after our daughter and I couldn't get childcare on the one day at uni I couldn't take her with me.

Even when the **stard chose to run off with one of his mistress after I asked him to go stay with his sister til he could get a place in rehab because he'd start succeeding in bashing our daughter (he'd tried for about a year, but I'd always stepped in taken the beating meant for her, but eventually my injuries got so severe I wasn't quick enough to stop him beating her up too - she was 4 years old at the time), even after all that, when his live in mistress realised what a pig he was and dumped him, i gave him another chance despite having been proposed to by a lovely man.

No, i'm not desperate. I just believe that marriage is sacred and that until the day you remarry someone else, your original spouse deserves a chance if they are genuine about getting themselves together.

Unfortunately the jerk realised that even though he was welcome back in the relationship, the violence and drug use and sleeping around had to end before he could physically move back in, a close "friend" of mine decided she wanted a husband (not a boyfriend, i mean an actual man stupid enough to marry a skanky drug addicted, unemployed slut like her), so she asked me for his contact details and said she'd invite him over to talk to him about how very important it was that he check himself into a domestic violence and drug program, and instead used her knowledge of me through our "friendship" to make up all these believable sounding lies about me, got him smashed and threw herself all over him. Told him he could do what he'd like to our daughter, that she doesn't care if he bashes or molests her, that she'll support him "no matter what he does" (actual quote - she has said she'll support him even if continues to bash our daughter, even if he continues to download kiddy porn, and claims she'll support him even if he starts molesting our daughter).

And given the choice between a loving, dedicated, faithful wife who insists on no violence and no drugs in my house, and a slut who will backstab her closest friends to get a guy into bed the second time she's met him despite the fact that he's a friend's beloved husband, and will "support" him even if he bashes a little child... what's a psychotic (as in suffering from psychoses of the mental illness variety... left that part out about my hubby, i stood by him despite 12 years of his delusions and rest of his mental illness), what's a psychotic, violent, drug addict gonna choose? loving wife, or desperate slutty skank?

desperate, slutty skank of course.

there are some women who are saintly mothers who do everything and sacrifice everything absolutely imaginable - career, health, money, future, house, even sacrificed having the big family i wanted so much because of the abuse he put me through has left me with damage that may prevent me from ever having another child, although i hope and pray that it's still possible.

I can guarantee, there are some women out there who are ****es from hell - both my husband's live in mistress are scum not even fit to be trampled on. The way they seduce married men, the first being married herself and the second trying to seduce friends' husband (my husband wasn't her first try, she only moved on to him when another friend's long term partner turned her slutty ass down).

You have to remember though, there are some very loving women out there who border on being saints for what they go through to stay with men who don't deserve anything good, simply because they believe marriage is sacred and for life. To say there is not, is incredibly offensive to these women who have been to hell... and I would say back, but many are still in that hell, even if their husbands leave, they can still be in hell with constant threats, including death threats, made against both them and any children, by both their husband and their husband's skanky mistresses. Only the death of their husband finally frees them from the hell, and it doesn't take back the pain of years of abuse and threats.

Quite simply, you know why there are so many man haters out there? it's not because of the (hopefully) few men who bash/abuse and/or cheat on loving partners, it's because of all the many people out there (mostly men, but waaaaay too many women too) who not only condone the behaviour but actually encourage it in their mates(despite being too cowardly to ever do it to their own partner) or those that are nearly as bad who turn a blind eye, and pretend it's not happening.

after what i've been through, i can tell you this.... it's sickening how many people either condone or ignore violence. even the whore slut who i thought was a close friend for many years, a friend i'd have died to save if it had ever came down to it, not only did she seduce my husband after more than eight years of marriage to him, she used her "friendship" with me and his mental illness to trick him into doing it, she now constantly tries to provoke him into violence against me despite knowing it will be our daughter he eventually attacks, but she even makes fun of the fact that he murdered our baby girl by bashing me up when I was pregnant.

it's completely sickening the attitude that so many people seem to have that violence is acceptable as long as they don't have to see it. sickening.

so many women hate men, not just for what they've been through, but for all the men who encourage it and who pretend it doesn't happen.

i know it's not all men, but far too many men.
 flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 22 (view)
 
What's your opinion? (long read)
Posted: 3/15/2008 7:01:00 AM
the comment "she sounds bipolar" is highly offensive and itself sounds incredibly ignorant.

people who split between loving and hating someone aren't bipolar. bipolar are people who have lengthy periods of depressions and either mania or hypomania.

people who flip back and forth between so called "love" and hate, who do it pathologically have personality disorders, something very different from bipolar.

sorry, i realise most people don't mean to be offensive when saying comments like this one, but its comments like that fan the fire of discrimination of loving people who are good spouses and good people who also have bipolar.

trust me - i know, i have a super psychotic husband who suffers from a personality disorder, and he flips between love and hate all the time. rants and raves paranoid delusions about loved ones being out to get him. and keeps proposing to multiple women and then hates them sometimes even weeks later.

when i kicked him out for bashing our daughter, he moved in with the mistress who i never knew he had. a week after having pressured me for months to have another baby (another baby i dearly wanted but was taking contraception to prevent because i knew what would happen - what did happen actually - he bashed me so badly in one of his violent rages he killed our precious unborn baby), but less than a week after pressuring me to have another baby, he was trying for a baby with his mistress (probably had been trying for quite some time with her).

and once their affair went public, he announced his engagement (despite the fact even now he is still married) and that didn't last, and he's now moved in with another of his mistresses and is "engaged" to her despite him STILL being married.

people need to stop confusing people who have a mental illness with people who are not mentally sound. one in four people have had depression, not to mention the other mental illnesses.

and people don't need to have a mental illness to be not mentally sound.

the psycho my husband is living with now - who has threatened our daughter on several occasions, who has had her own daughter taken away from her by the department of child safety, who is a drug addled desperate sl*t, has no mental illness (although she pretends to so she can receive a disability pension). she is just plain psycho. drug induced psychosis. crazy as anything, rants paranoid crap and blames everyone else for the problems she makes and abuses everyone in her drug induced stuper.

but she's not mentally ill, she's just psycho and psychotic.

i might be biased - after an entire childhood of child abuse, only escaping my abuser when i got married, only to have six months into my marriage have my husband start abusing me, and 18 months into it having him start beat me up. i've had depression - i had no where to turn to. even the first counsellor i went to did some sick stuff to me that even now i can't go near the place where he works without being physically sick.

depression is a mentall illness, but i'm a loving rational person who treats with total love and respect those that i care for - and basically treat everyone with respect even if i don't care for them.

don't confuse people who suffer pain with the psycho freaks who are just psycho not mentally ill.

i was going to say one thing... with the restraining order.... i wish i lived somewhere that handed out restraining orders that easy.

it was hard enough getting one out against my husband, yet he continually violates it. and when it comes to his mistresses.... i had written death threats from one, still couldn't get a restraining order against her, and the current one he lives with (there is more than one he is intimate with, but even though he and i were working things out and apparently was still screwing his previous mistress when he got together with the current live in one, she's an idiot to think that she's the only one he's doing it with).... the current one he lives with has threatened my daughter on multiple occasions, she's had her own daughter removed from her, and not only can i not get a restraining order against her, unless i can find an affordable better lawyer in the next three months before the next custody hearing, the court is going to hand my daughter over to this violent, drug addicted psycho.

my husband sometimes works during the day so his mistress would get dumped with our daughter, and apparently the fact she only just got busted for drugs and has spent the last year in and out of rehab and has had her own daughter taken away from her and the court won't give her back her own daughter, all that apparently means nothing.

her daughter is the same age as my daughter (i know this because she was a close friend for years and years before she seduced my husband), and it's total crap that despite her threats against my daughter, i can't get a restraining, and to make matters worse, unless i can find a solution, the court will order i hand my daughter over to my husband and this psycho.

they are both drug addicts, both have abused their children, both suffer from personality disorders and drug induced paranoid delusions, both make death threats against other people, but despite all this, the court wants to let my husband have shared custody of our daughter in 3 months if supervised visits go well.

its stupid. stupid stupid stupid. of course he's going to behave when he's supervised. he never bashed me or our daughter in front of anyone other than his friends who think its ok to bash women and children and have no problem with denying it happened to the police. to everyone else, he appeared loving and charming.

of course he'll behave during supervised visits. then he'll get his hands on her and go back to bashing her like he did before i threw the creep out.

anyway, this is a bit off topic, sorry, i'm just upset and angry after court two days ago. i've bought another three months of protection for my daughter from my dangerous husband and his psycho mistress, but after that, i don't know how to protect her.

her and i both have slight medical conditions that are managed no problems, but going into hiding isn't an option. also there is the fact that i'm very close to my family but they have big mouths and would tell my husband where i was because they don't believe people should go into hiding to protect their kids.

and even if i could, it's not much of a life. if a court orders you hand your child over to a violent pervert who has abused your child for years, if you don't hand them over to the violent pervert, then YOU are the criminal, YOU are the ones the police hunt down, and YOU are the one who risks going to jail.

i know many people will think, "surely that's not the case" but here it is. and i've seen it happen to good people just trying to protect their kids.

i don't know how to protect my daughter from this monster. i'm getting some more legal advice on monday from someone other than my lawyer. because quite simply, he's doing it through legal aid, getting paid something like 20% his normal fee and has had enough of it being drawn out by my husband.

here the only free lawyers who represent people in court are legal aid, and thinking your lawyer isn't putting your child's safety first isn't sufficient reason for them to issue you another lawyer. so i'm stuck.

argh. paranoid, psychotic drug addicts shouldn't be let near anybody's child, even if they are the father, and especially not if they are just the father's skanky mistress.
 Flutterby80
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 25 (view)
 
Is it geographical?
Posted: 12/26/2007 2:52:39 AM
When I first signed up, I was inundated by guys who wanted to chat and talk dirty. I had to frequently block guys until I just switched off the chatting function altogether just to be left alone.

I was still contacted by all sorts of weirdos through email. They basically made it clear they wanted to meed up straight (ie not get to know each other online even a little first), they also made it clear that they weren't willing to wait for sex. They wanted to meet up and have sex, if not on the first date, then no longer than after a few dates.

The only way to stop this was to entirely change my profile to deliberately specify that I don't do casual sex and that I'm only interested in guys with christian values.

It stopped all the perverts, but sadly the number of replies from decent guys haven't increased. I still only get a handful of emails from nice guys - usually guys who are too far away for anything more than talking online.

It's very difficult. It seems guys are only interested in "easy" women... like the so called "friend" who seduced my husband. Even married guys seemed to prefer easy women who will have sex with anyone, any time (including with close friend's husbands) over loving, dedicated faithful women who have values and morals.

I won't pretend women are any better - the woman my husband previously had run off with was married, and for longer than me and my husband were (which was 8 years), and she had three kids with her husband and two that weren't his that he supported.

He got burned by that woman, came back and told me he wanted to get his life back together, but very quickly took off with the first slutty bimbo to throw herself at him (someone who I had thought was one of my best friends in the world).

Guys like him.... both these women he got involved with are psychopaths. Both have told him it's ok to bash our daughter and both have encouraged him to become violent towards me. Both have told him his years of violence towards me and our daughter are acceptable. And the latest mistress has told him she'll even give him her support no matter what he does to our daughter - include the neglect he's already doing and including if he becomes violent towards her again, she'll support him in it.

I mean, there is a huge difference between loving someone no matter what they do, and supporting them no matter what they do. I will always love my husband despite everything he has done and continues to do, but I will never support his violence or cheating - or any man (or woman) who is violent or cheating.

Loving someone means telling them you DON'T support them when they hurt innocent people.

anyway, I've gone a little off topic, but my point was just this - after a year of joining sites like this (mostly for just friends by the way) and a year of dealing with my husband having affairs and running off for periods with these backstabbing cows, I can say for certain - guys only seem interested in skinny chicks with no kids who just want sex.

given the choice between a loving faithful kind woman with kids and not so skinny and doesn't have casual sex as soon as she meets a guy, and a chick who is skinny, with no custody of kids but who is backstabbing, sleeps around, is only using a guy for money and gifts and has sex the first time she meets a guy - guys will choose the skinny, slutty, cheating user, over a good woman who doesn't sleep around, any day.
 
Show ALL Forums