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 Author Thread: after 40 it is really hard to find a date
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 234 (view)
 
after 40 it is really hard to find a date
Posted: 9/30/2009 9:05:33 AM
I think what really matters to men about a woman eventually is NOT the way she LOOKS but the way she ACTS. Men mature enough to be worth knowing notice what women DO, not just the way they look.

The old cliché sounds like a joke, but really, I think it is a truth that is underestimated. The way to a man's heart, the old saying goes, is through his stomach. There is probably no man in America that will not respond favorably if a woman places an aromatic plate of fresh-baked cinnamon cookies in front of him. And when was the last time you said to a guy who proposes going out to eat - Why don't you come over to my place instead and let me fix a dinner for you?

Is it sexist to look at these options? I don't think so. Whether you are a female or a male, there's nothing wrong with using your talents well whether or not they are traditionally gender-linked. You'll enjoy using them and you just may make progress towards a goal you have set, so why not?

The woman (or man) who knows how to bake good cookies has the right to apply that skill to pursue the goal she wants. She should not block off that possibility just because somebody may think it is the dreaded gender-stereotypical behavior.

And baking cinnamon cookies is just one of the many things a smart woman can do to attract males if that is what she wants to do. Does she smile at people without waiting for them to smile at her first? Does she give guys her phone number, or just expect them to ask for it? Does she ask them for theirs? What law says women are supposed to be passive and men aggressive? Really, the days of the shrinking violet are sooooooooo over. In this century, women can have desires and openly say what they want and accept that they may or may not get it.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 230 (view)
 
after 40 it is really hard to find a date
Posted: 9/28/2009 1:21:07 PM
I have enjoyed some, er, umm, amazing experiences with older women. Yet the fact is that younger women are noticeably less inhibited about the sheer playfulness involved in behavior with others.

I have heard "Oh, I couldn't do that" more from older people than from younger people. You have to wonder, did Hillary do for Bill what Monica did? I think America's "Great Divide" turning point in bedroom behavior was the invention of the pill.

The outcome was that you could do lots of cool things without connecting them with pregnancy. This must have been an eye-opener for people - especially female type people - who lived through that change.

There are many women who formed their values in the years since the pill; others - the older ones - have not forgotten the things their mothers taught them, in the pre-pill era.

BTW I agree with the poster above who recognizes how passé the word "date" is. Really, folks, high school is waaaaaaay over. C'mon! Who "dates" today? Are they the people who go to Branson, Missouri to hear music LOL?
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 226 (view)
 
after 40 it is really hard to find a date
Posted: 9/26/2009 7:47:59 PM
WHAT? " ... perform better in bed ..." ??? No way.


Studies reveal most younger guys and girls are very sexually active and perform better on bed than an older person , and what most women want is SEX that its their main priority .
.

On the contrary it is my experience that many women don't even know how to do sex until they hit forty or so. Younger women are often passive and wait for their sex life to be handed to them. The "lie back and think of England" syndrome. All they have learned how to do is "spread 'em." Women with a few years on the clock are more likely to have discovered how to use their bodies to please both themselves and others. Arts such as the prehensile Kegel muscle are NOT acquired at birth; women have to learn how to use the equipment they have and it can take years of practice to get it right.

Some of the most exciting females are those old enough to have gotten past the biological urge to get preggers, so now they figure out that their bodies are fun, not just babymaking machines. Very often too they have learned how satisfying it is to take care of themselves financially instead of looking for a meal ticket every time they meet a man.

They don't have to get fat or ugly. A woman who keeps trim and looks good is a decoration that makes the world a more attractive place long after her twenties are history. There are women who run and maintain hard bodies and they look terrific and they are terrific. Athletes often look fantastic - how old are Serena Williams and Anna Kournikova, anyway? They will look great for many years and are probably incredible in bed.

Unfortunately by the time males get to be 40 their libido has waned a lot and so America is full of women who do not get the sex life they would like to have and which they could do well if they could have it. And the males taught that they must "perform" and be "providers" become type A personalities and get heart attacks and even die while the women are fit and healthy and in shape.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 222 (view)
 
after 40 it is really hard to find a date
Posted: 9/26/2009 8:30:31 AM
I never in my life found it difficult to "get" a "date" and maybe that's because I don't do "dates" and never did. I build friendly relationships. It works.

Scanning this site, it is noticeable that most of the PoF women seem to want "long term." In my experience if you are open to being real and compassionate and well-disposed to people even if there is no scary expectation like "long term" put on them then the long term relationship is more likely to follow without a lot of striving for it.

Really, women, do you think males are attracted by women who state right up front such a high expectation as "long term" implies? I enjoyed a decades-long love affair that ended only when she died - and we met by pure chance and were just friendly and ready to offer a high degree of trust from the moment when we first met, with never any promises or expectations of anything beyond the immediate moment. Also, we each found great pleasure in seeing the other attracted to others indeed helping it happen. I think possessiveness kills affection.

Announcing "long term" even before you know someone sounds like signing up for a "long term" hitch - twenty years in the Foreign Legion. If you were considering applying to go to work for a company, how would you react if the interviewer told you even before you knew anything about the company that you would be there forever if you signed on? Like the Hotel California where you can check in but you can never leave?

That "long term" thing sounds like a judge's sentence, not a choice of a free person. Bernard Madoff got "long term."
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 1803 (view)
 
SO why are you still single after 30?
Posted: 8/31/2009 8:58:39 PM


... us Men always have to initiate, ...


Funny but I didn't notice that on the ballot last election day. When was that law passed? Did you vote for it?

Who makes rules for you? Why? Is that the way you want your life to be?
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 1797 (view)
 
SO why are you still single after 30?
Posted: 8/26/2009 4:41:53 PM
The question "Why are you still single?" is silly and insulting. Nobody asks a married person "Why are you still married?" The question seems to assume that there is something wrong with being single. There is not.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 369 (view)
 
How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 7/16/2009 9:15:24 PM
I can't believe that in 2009 there are still people who think Prince Charming is going to arrive on a white horse and "sweep them off their feet."

This is so juvenile.

Face it, "Cinderella" is NOT reality - it's a fantasy fairytale to titillate the imagination of love starved children who want to imagine that there's a perfect human being out there who is going to rescue them.

Dream on.

I think the way the world works in reality goes more like this:

1. Decide clearly what you want.

2. Ask the universe for it.

3. Accept that sometimes you will get it and sometimes not.

4. Accept that if you don't ask, you won't get it.

Mick Jagger says:
"You can't always get what you want,
But if you try,
Sometimes,
You get what you need."
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 490 (view)
 
For the Men Over 30
Posted: 6/30/2009 1:28:28 AM
" that I'd like to spend the rest of my life with"
is thinking rationally like an intelligent adult, a responsible maker of informed choices.

" ... the right one"
is thinking like a child, who dreams on in a world of fairy tales where things are not intelligent choices but are miraculous unpredictable events that just happen to you.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 81 (view)
 
why do people want to argue the bible
Posted: 6/19/2009 3:01:54 AM
It makes no sense to refer to "the" Bible since there are many. If you think only one of them is valid then the burden rests on YOU to explain why it's just that particular one.

It cannot be done, and has to be a leap of faith. If you cannot make that leap of pure faith, without any evidence at all, then don't kid yourself that you have faith.

Whether or not it's a good thing to have faith at all is a whole nother question. The masses seem to take it for granted. But Percy Bysshe Shelley refers to faith as "bloody" and "foul." Skepticism gets put down a lot yet the fact is that it is skepticism, not faith, that has moved the world forward. Faith won't give us a cure for cancer; skeptical scientific thinking just might. As for law and government, any honest court wants evidence, not just faith.

If you really must believe in a Bible, there's a long list of Bibles to choose from. The Analects of Confucius are pretty good, and the Avestas and the Baghavad Gita are venerable. However, the question remains - why? Making an idol of a book, any book, is not a good thing to do. Christianity is supposed to be about a man, not about a book about the man. And the last I heard, he never said "On this rock I will write my book."
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 178 (view)
 
Do you believe a man of today, still understands the true meaning of romance?
Posted: 5/12/2009 9:17:40 AM

I find that any guy can be romantic in the beginning of a relationship but fast forward a few years into it, they just think they have you and don't have to do any work to keep you.


If any person wants to be part of my life I want her to do so by informed free choice, not as a consequence of my "being romantic."

I AM in fact a very romantic person but do not turn romance on as a tactic to win the favor of others. If I ever decide to strive to "win" the approval of people by behaving in ways that are intended to impress or persuade them then I know where to apply for a job selling used cars.

As for "they have you" and "keep you" I think that language is appalling in 2009. No human being "has" another. It has been more than 100 years since the Emancipation Proclamation was signed.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 174 (view)
 
Do you believe a man of today, still understands the true meaning of romance?
Posted: 4/30/2009 8:35:37 PM


... it sounds like you're saying men just have to accept that it's up to them to do the pursuing, whether it's equal or not. ...


When I was a dumb adolescent I never questioned the assumption that men pursue, women yield.

Then I grew up.

I soon found that the kind of women who are rewarding to know consider themselves my equal, not passive reactive princesses, game to be hunted or prizes to be won.

Nobody needs to pursue anyone. Anyone can express desires and others then may or may not respond by giving you what they desire. That's grown up behavior.

I then started to treat women as human beings, not bait. Each unique, each worthy of full respect. As I evolved toward a lifestyle of equality things got better and better. I found women enjoy being around me more.

Just this morning I enjoyed an hour with a beautiful woman, bright, very talented, young enough to be my granddaughter, when we found ourselves working side by side on a job where we had plenty of free time for conversation. We each got a lot of pleasure out of interacting as equals in dignity and respect. It pleased me to be with a finalist who made it to the top eight contestants in the Miss America contest. I like beauty and she is beautiful but that is just a part of what she is and I enjoyed exploring the personality and mind and thoughts of a whole and lovely person, balanced and sane and secure.

I am really glad that the pursuit games are history. Social life is better than ever without all that game-playing and expectations of filling roles I never voted to choose.

Now I am sorry for men who still think they have to pursue and for women who accept the role of being pursued. Or vice versa.

Pursuit? Kid stuff. C'mon, it's 2009, folks. Pursuit? Forget it.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 1638 (view)
 
so, why are you still single?
Posted: 4/26/2009 12:45:04 AM

I just don't know how to do the transition from friend to more.

This is troublesome. He seems to consider friendship inferior to something else. Why? Love affairs come and go easily enough but friendship can endure. It doesn't depend on hormones or momentary passions but on intelligence and informed commitment. Exactly why would anybody assume that friendship is just a transition on the way to something else?
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 47 (view)
 
Do you believe a man of today, still understands the true meaning of romance?
Posted: 4/21/2009 8:21:16 PM
Whoa. This is apparently a lovely woman - but look here!

She says:
... the man I was married to was a ... good provider and a BIG gift giver ... it made him very proud to be able to provide for me the way that he did, he was very generous. ... for all of the nice things he gave me. He made me feel like a Princess, ...

Hmm.

It's all about what HE does for HER. Gotta wonder what SHE gave HIM.

A "good provider" ??? C'mon. I am a person, not a "provider." Does she want a MAN or a bailout package?

I cringe when anybody refers to another human being in terms of their useful function rather than their being; it's belittling like a man referring to a woman as "a good lay." A woman who calls a man a "provider" may be looking for a wallet riding on a sperm bank, not a flesh and blood human being. I hope that is not the way it is with this lovely woman. Does she want a MAN or just a source of support for a weak dependent?

Finally, I do not think anybody can MAKE another person feel stuff. You CHOOSE what you feel. Isn't everybody already a prince and princess? If your self-esteem depends on others instead of originating within yourself you may be setting yourself up for a crash.

As for that "princess" thing, the woman I enjoyed being married to NEVER acted like a princess or wanted to be a princess or anything else except my equal. Our relationship was solidly built on the respect between equals. If I ever want to meet a princess I know the way to Buckingham Palace.

 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 45 (view)
 
Do you believe a man of today, still understands the true meaning of romance?
Posted: 4/21/2009 6:56:56 PM
I can see two problems in the most common perceptions of romance.

First, romantic feelings are feelings. Your feelings are created by yourself. If you feel romantic it is because you choose to feel romantic. Nobody has the power to create your feelings for you. This sounds tough but I think it is true.

Second, romantic behavior seems to be used by some people as a tool to initiate a relationship. I think romantic behavior is best considered what you do to build and sustain a relationship after it has been established.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 66 (view)
 
Is it realistic to expect to another person not to have any baggage
Posted: 4/19/2009 10:25:15 AM


People that are overly concerned -- and feel a need to warn off those with a history -- realize they are incapable of handling their own choices and expect you to do it for them.

i.e., "I want to be the only weak and needy person in this relationship"



Ah, now there's a wise poster. Real life means that every person has a history. You would be boring if you didn't have any history.

What matters is how you deal with your history. I like the Chinese saying - fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. You DON'T need to make the same mistake twice.

The person who is dangerous to you and is best not let into your life is the fool who makes the same mistakes over and over. Even rats learn not to keep running down the same trail in the maze if there is no cheese there.

But some people WANT unhealthy roles - either the weak and needy one in a relationship or the enabler who keeps them there. Many women fall into the trap of becoming the permanent nurturer of a loser rather than helping him get up.

What's needed is to grow up and learn to stand up and say "I am responsible for what I am and for what I shall be." No point in blaming fate or God or the government or any other person. You alone are the owner of your life.

I think a wholesome relationship begins with two persons each totally able to stand on their own feet with or without the other and take responsibility for what they are. These two are equals. Not a weak party and an enabler.

It is possible to stand alongside a person who is dealing with issues and let them know that you are on their side. I was married to a woman I think highly of and what meant more than anything to me was that I knew that no matter what was going on we were always going to be on the same side. That is a good feeling.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 420 (view)
 
Circumcision...
Posted: 4/13/2009 6:34:17 PM
In any case, if you argue that hygiene is easier when the penis is denuded, then here's a terrific idea.

We all know that dandruff can be a problem. You won't need to wash your hair if we do some surgery on babies a few days old. Removal of the scalp and its hair follicles will make sure that there is no dandruff. No need to depend on washing it to be clean.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 870 (view)
 
Expain the phrase My children are my top priority?
Posted: 4/10/2009 11:57:41 AM


... it irritates me to a some degree to see such a question posted. My children are the most important people in my life, second only to God. Part of being a Christian Mother is to make sure my children are taken care of in several ways ( emotionally, spiritually, and physically) I do not think that a woman's wording of a profile which stresses that she is a Mother first is a red flag. I think (in most cases) it shows great character.

Second, it angers me to think that there are men on this website who are so shallow as to think that if they are not a woman's top priority in life they will not survive. Men like that need to grow up a great deal before they ever deal with a woman who has kids OR they need to not date women who have kids.

This person seriously needs to chill out.

There is nothing wrong with a woman putting her children first, in fact I am inclined to honor her for it. If her children were mine I would want to her to do so. Indeed I think she might well give up dating until the children reach adulthood. There is no law that says you can have your cake and eat it too.

What is NOT honest is to conceal intention. Therefore it is quite appropriate for all the facts to be stated up front such as in her POF profile. There really are POF and nobody is forced to respond if they don't like it.

But there is no need for her to be irritated or angry. Her "children first" values are admirable but she has no right to expect others to respect HER values. People DO have the right to ask the OP's question. Let people just state the facts and respect other people's freedom to choose.

The bit about her "God" is more troublesome. If she REALLY wanted to live with her God first she would not have those children at all but would have become a nun. It is pretty tacky when people profess devotion to their God yet don't live by that claim. Some day she may meet her God who will ask her "Why didst thou not really put me first yet pretend to do so?" and she will have to admit "Sorry, sir, I pretended to put you first but in fact my biological urge took over and I put parenthood first."
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 357 (view)
 
How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 4/9/2009 6:23:26 PM


Everyone wants what is difficult to attain. It gives us purpose.

Exactly who appointed this poster to speak for "everyone"? I don't remember the election.


"It gives us purpose."

What??? Does he mean life has no purpose unless you want what is difficult?



When two compatible people meet, and time passes, generally one person tries to completely give themselves over to the other and the pursuit is clearly over. Goal accomplished. Things have become stale. Time to find a new past time.

Well, count me out of that game. I NEVER want anybody to "give themselves over" to me and I do not intend to "give myself over" to anyone. I want people to be themselves.

Then he talks about "pursuit." Well, I do not pursue. And life is NOT stale.

I know who I am. I like being me. I have a self. I enjoy meeting others who likewise have a self. We relate as equals. No pursuit. No games. No "giving over" of self - that's martyrdom. I don't want martyrs in my life.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 836 (view)
 
Expain the phrase My children are my top priority?
Posted: 4/6/2009 4:53:10 PM


Can't a child, and a date be equally important?

That's a rhetorical question...


It's actually a thought-provoking serious question. I think far too many women bear a child without thinking through the consequences. In real life there always must be priorities. If she elects to go ahead and bear a child, then she will do well to face the likelihood that dating will no longer be so much of an option until the children are grown. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Motherhood is not a right; it's a choice, and choices always carry a price tag.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 44 (view)
 
What makes a woman a good lover? Will take both, but especially from a ladies perspective
Posted: 4/4/2009 4:39:43 PM


Very few women give good head. I know it is still good, but they seem not to know what to do. Women can be very bad in bed. When I was younger I would have women just lay in the missionay position. Nothing else just that position.I try to get them to try new ones but nope. I just think women think they can not suck.

Alas, you are right. Most American women have accepted the absurd Victorian-era notion that women are passive receivers, males want to penetrate them and their duty is to resist until they "yield" to his passion.

I have met very few women who have learned how to use their bodies. Some women cannot even masturbate well. They think all they have to do is to lie down and spread their legs and "submit." As if men are "aggressors" or "conquerors" and women are targets or trophies.

I have encountered a very few women who do know how to use their bodies. They do NOT submit passively. They have strengthened their kegels and they know how to take charge. The WOMAN, not the man, decides when he pops, and the woman has the ability to control the situation. This does NOT come naturally; good sex is a skill to be studied and learned and practised.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 40 (view)
 
What makes a woman a good lover? Will take both, but especially from a ladies perspective
Posted: 4/4/2009 1:07:33 PM


...home economics teacher in high school and a great cook & a true eskimo in bed...

.

.
Reminds me of a neighbor I had once. She wrote a book about sex and orgasms. We talked often and she admitted that although she wrote a book about it she had never had an orgasm.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 811 (view)
 
Expain the phrase My children are my top priority?
Posted: 4/4/2009 11:49:19 AM
This is just a thought, and I expect I will get a lot of flak for daring to say this out loud, but here goes, just consider.

Thanks to the pill and legalized abortion there is no such thing as compulsory parenthood any more. EVERY child has the right to be chosen and wanted.

No woman is forced to become a mother any more. Now if she CHOOSES to be a mother, would it be impossible for her to embrace the state of motherhood accepting that for the next 18 years she will be a mother above all, and dating can wait?

There is no law that says you have to have men in your life or in your bed. Plenty of nuns and others do just fine without needing to see men. What if a woman who chooses to become a mother said from day one - this is what I am going to be and men in my life can wait until my child is grown? Is that out of the question? Why? Who says you MUST date? You are NOT a slave to your biology.

I don't know for sure but I have the feeling that I would respect that woman deeply and maybe that is the woman I would want to be the mother of my child. The woman who says - I will sacrifice social life for 18 years in order to be totally a mother for my children. That strikes me as a fine woman, a really good mother, maybe that is the kind of woman I would want to bear my child. What do you think?
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 802 (view)
 
Expain the phrase My children are my top priority?
Posted: 4/4/2009 8:14:09 AM
I once lived with Anne for a few months. She never failed to put being with me first. It felt great. To achieve this she put her two children in the hands of various caregivers very frequently.

At first I enjoyed this. However after a few months I felt more and more sorry for those kids. They were growing up being warehoused rather than given parental love a lot of the time.

Observing what went on I lost respect for Anne as a mother, and came to think a lot less of her as a woman. I decided I certainly would not want her to be the mother of my children. And no way would I want to be involved in the raising of those two poor little kids who I saw being wounded by her always putting them in second place.

What's the solution? I don't know. All I can suggest is that honesty up front is usually a good policy. Maybe, therefore, it is best if the question of how a parent intends to accommodate a new partner in a relationship is discussed and agreed upon right at the start. If so, then it is a good thing for a parent to put that header phrase in their profile. If they mean it, then why not say so? Then at least everybody can know exactly where they stand.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 20 (view)
 
What makes a woman a good lover? Will take both, but especially from a ladies perspective
Posted: 4/3/2009 11:48:36 AM
Funny thing that posters are not mentioning the prehensile vagina. It is a fact that every woman can learn to control her kegel muscles and take a pro-active role in sex. Instead of the male thrusting into her she can draw him and and pump him dry. He could even be quite passive. How much longer will Americans accept the Puritan delusion that women just accept and receive while men act and provide? Why shouldn't women be at least as powerful as males?

Control of the kegel muscle is something that can be learned and it takes study and a lot of practice. There are plenty of prostitutes and others who study and practice it. And there are a lot of women in Europe who know how to do it. Did you ever wonder how Josephine kept Napoleon fascinated and longing for her for many months when he was away?

A woman who develops the strength and control of her kegels will never lose her man. No man will settle for the "warm hunk of meat with a hole in it" kind of sex after he has experienced a woman who knows the skill of using her body to absorb his body slowly and carefully and totally and she controls him and her muscles release his orgasm when SHE decides it's time.

There us a Bible story about Lot whose daughters wanted to be pregnant so they got him drunk and had sex with him. Apparently he didn't even know what was going on and they each in turn got him off. If there is any truth to that story then it may be that those girls knew the skill of kegel control and used it.

In kundalini yoga the man does not move at all. The woman's kegel muscles do the whole job. I have never experienced it [ : ( ] and I don't think many westerners can do it but apparently practitioners of yoga in India do it and they say it's like night and day, a whole different experience.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 209 (view)
 
after 40 it is really hard to find a date
Posted: 4/3/2009 8:55:44 AM

... I would not want a person who noticed me because of how I looked ... if that is all he likes about me he needs to move on to someone who has nothing more to offer him than a pretty package.

Naturally appearance matters; it is the first thing the world sees about you. But in my opinion far too many women are obsessed with appearance and fail to appreciate the significance of behavior.

In the long run I think what a woman DOES will always outweigh the way she looks.

Why are so many women reluctant to use what they have? Hey, women on list, when was the last time you fluttered your eyelashes at a man? Smiled at a stranger? Fixed your gaze on some guy who attracts you until he notices you?

Did you ever unexpectedly surprise a man by putting in front of him a plate of fresh baked fragrant cinnamon cookies hot from the oven? There is truth in the old saying about "the way to a man's heart...".

I get so tired of passive women who think this is still the Victorian era when females were supposed to be precious prizes sheltered by their daddies until some dashing beau "wins" her and she is "given away" to the strains of Mendelsohn Really, folks, that stuff is mostly just in novels now

Women today can be the most free autonomous self-directed individuals women have ever been in all history. First the vote, then the pill, then legalized abortion. She is no longer a baby-making machine, a breed sow serving males, but a free human being in control of her own body and her own life. Why are so many women still timid about seuzing the opportunities they now have to assert themselves as men's equal?
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 410 (view)
 
Circumcision...
Posted: 4/1/2009 11:23:33 PM
It's not just males who are victims of genital mutilation. In parts of Africa it is routine to cut off the clitoris of girls before they reach puberty. It destroys their pleasure and eradicates masturbation, leaving the girls as baby-making machines for the husbands who own them like cattle.

This brutal practice is illegal in Egypt but is so ingrained in the population from thousands of years of tradition that the government has found it impossible to stop it. Circumcision of both boys and girls has been going on in that region since the Age of the Pharoahs.

Alice Walker's book "Possessing the Secret of Joy" is about the destruction of women's pleasure by circumcision. Tragically, men in those cultures flatly refuse to marry women who have escaped having it done to them.

Male circumcision is firmly fixed in Judaic and Islamic cultures, with all the force of religion backing it up. In India, where Hindu and Muslim populations live side by side, a circumcised man is considered unfit to marry by Hindus.

In America, genital mutilation was only applied to males and Federal law now makes female circumcision unlawful. Absurd health claims gave impetus to circumcision, and it was alleged that circumcised boys would masturbate less, so becoming less apt to suffer mental illness. This derives from Moses Maimonides in the Middle Ages and is entirely without evidence to support it.

There is no evidence that circumcised Americans masturbate less than intact males, and neither is there any evidence that masturbation causes insanity, alcoholism, baldness, hairy palms or warts on the hands. The arguments in defense of circumcision as a health measure are mostly just old wives' tales.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 1553 (view)
 
so, why are you still single?
Posted: 3/30/2009 8:18:29 PM




"I'm single because I like to ****. I'd love my girlfriend, but physically wanted to **** any other hot girls. I'm not trying to be a ass/pig/perv, its just the truth. Oh, and I'm picky on what 'hot' is :)

*shrugs*."
Looking at your profile I'm guessing the only real action you get are drunk fat whores.
I bet you're picky as to what hot is,hahaha! Cus I'm picky and think you wouldn't even make me look once.

Come on, nobody could be that weird; his post must by a fake, a troll. Sorry you got suckered by it and he was able to push your buttons.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 339 (view)
 
How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/27/2009 9:30:25 AM


It's all about pretending to be uninterested, while being just friendly enough to make the guy think she's more interested than she's letting on.


Whatever. I don't try to second-guess anybody or read between the lines. I listen carefully to what she says and take it that he means exactly what she says, no more, no less. If she gives no signal that she is not interested in me, I move on pronto.

It strikes me as insulting and demeaning to a woman to presume that you can read her mind instead of just listening to her. Game-playing is for arcades. I want to meet people who are real life persons, not poker players out to bluff and calculate moves.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 773 (view)
 
Expain the phrase My children are my top priority?
Posted: 3/27/2009 9:21:32 AM
Today no parent is forced to become a parent. Thanks to birth control and abortion EVERY child can be a CHOSEN child. Having made a CHOICE, the parent is then responsible for all consequences of that choice. Freedom to date and go out every Saturday night is NOT in the Constitution.

Women who expect that men will be satisfied to take second place in her life must accept the fact that few men will be satisfied with that. Why should they? The only situation likely to work out well is if he too has children and together they can all form one big happy family.

Maybe PoF should have a special section for men and women with children. They would all understand each other. And they would know up front that there are always going to be limitations on their availability for social life so nobody would expect from them more than they can deliver.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 407 (view)
 
Circumcision...
Posted: 3/27/2009 9:02:39 AM

If most cervical cancer was caused by uncircumcised men, that means there would be almost no cervical cancer in Jewish women, right? (since all Jewish men are circumcised) ...


Circumcision was promoted in the US by Dr. Peter Remondino, a Union Army surgeon in the Civil War. Advocates of circumcision in those days didn't know about the phony arguments using HIV and cancer, so they argued from mental health. It goes like this:

There are few Jews in prisons. There are few Jewish alcoholics. Therefore, obviously, circumcision is good for you. If we circumcise all baby boys then voila there will be no more crime or alcoholism.

Even funnier is the "neuresthania" argument. Boys whose penises are uncut are more easily aroused to erection so they masturbate more.

We all know that masturbation causes hairy palms, warts on the hands, etc., but even worse is mastirbation's deleterious effects on mental health.

Masturbation makes boys pale, thin and weak. By circumcising them all, there will be no more "neuresthania" - a disease invented at that time in order to put masturbation into a mental health issue.

What about girls? Oh no, they don't masturbate. We know that because Queen Victoria said so.

The hilarious belief, that circumcised boys don't masturbate, isn't new. It comes from Moses Maimonides, 1190 A.D., in his "Guide to the Perplexed," part 3, chapter 49. Queen Victoria's insisting that girls have no sexuality comes from the belief that a wife's duty is to lie down and submit passively to her husband's lust while she thinks of England; she isn't supposed to enjoy it, her Christian duty is to cook his meals and make babies for him.

 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 55 (view)
 
Love and hate - are they opposites?
Posted: 3/26/2009 4:54:31 PM


So...if i've never hated does it mean i've never loved?

And by the way OP...can you let the smokers in...I wanted to privately message you lol...



If you have never either hated or loved the question is whether you are capable of feeling anything deep about anything. Do you know the way T. S. Eliot predicts the world will end? "Not with a bang, but with a whimper." And "the best have no convictions, but the worst are full of passionate intensity." Is our problem that it is only the @rseholes who care deeply about anything?

So maybe the world is in most trouble because so many people are sheep. They do not have convictions and cannot make commitments. They want to be led by whatever rabble rouser comes own the pike. What would YOU risk your life for? To bring it down to personal relationships, who do you love sufficiently that you would give your life for theirs? Or, who do you hate so deeply that you would die to take theirs?

As to smokers, I look on them with compassion. While yes I do block them from my profile even so they can email me at fra59e (at) yahoo. com, just don't come near me where I have to smell you. Any addiction at all, when it is self-chosen, is not characteristic of a free person but of a victim with self-esteem issues, who has lost control over a portion of his life.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 397 (view)
 
Circumcision...
Posted: 3/26/2009 2:54:01 PM
In the Western States circumcision is on the way out. We have a lot of Asians and others who perceive mutilation of the penis as barbarism. Boys with denuded**** are now already in the minority.

If it is such a great idea to amputate part of the body to prevent disease so ordinary hygiene won't be necessary, why stop at the penis? Dandruff can be surgically prevented; bald people don't get dandruff so let's just prevent all growth of hair on the scalp. And nobody will ever get toothache if every tooth is automatically extracted as soon as it grows in.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 44 (view)
 
Love and hate - are they opposites?
Posted: 3/26/2009 2:39:51 PM
Maybe what matters is that you, not they, are the cause of what you feel.

As Kipling says, being hated don't give way to hating; if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you, if all men count with you, but none too much...

As Terry Cole-Whitaker says, what you think of me is none of my business.

If you love me or hate me, who cares. I will choose what I feel towards you.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 315 (view)
 
How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/26/2009 7:31:04 AM


....and if she is receptive...she will allow the pursuit...


If "she" is merely "receptive" I don't want her. I want women in my life who are real persons, not just receptacles.

If she "allows" my "pursuit," then forget it, I don't want to be "allowed." I am not asking permission to "pursue."

I want a person who desires me, not just one who tolerates other people's desire. It's when two persons both want each other that good things happen.

The relationship is founded on equality and the mutual respect of equals, not a "pursuer" who chases his next "conquest" like a big game hunter in Africa pursuing the next big game trophy to decorate his wall convincing himself that he must be "a real man" as he racks up more and more of them.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 1527 (view)
 
so, why are you still single?
Posted: 3/25/2009 8:50:06 PM
You know, bizegurl is on the right track. She seems to understand that life calls for living with choices and acceptance of responsibility for outcomes of choices.

The question "why are you still single?" is a silly pseudoquestion. It presumes that to be single is something to be apologized for or explained. It is not. It can be a choice. That's all. It would be just as appropriate to ask a person who asks you "Why are you still single?" the question "Why are you still married?"

We each make choices and when we are grown up we know that every choice carries consequences. We do NOT have to live in endless evaluation of ourselves by standards set by others.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 304 (view)
 
How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/25/2009 8:13:02 AM
When I was young and naive I assumed you had too "pursue." Then I grew up. The funny thing is that it was then that my social life really took off. I discovered that I really like myself and do not need to apologize for that. Then I found that people were more and more attracted to me. Perhaps nobody can like you better than you like yourself. Maybe it is a good idea to work on becoming your own best friend. Then all the good stuff follows. Who taught you that you're not supposed to like yourself, anyway? Do you have to believe them?

As a free independent individual who has a self and likes it, you start running into other people who are also free and independent and like themselves. Then when you give something to each other it is not just filling a need but acting on desire. What you give each other is then a real gift.

Then when you give affection to another person who does not need it or expect it but enjoys your gift, they are accepting you and what you have to offer not because either party is expecting to get something out of the other but simply to exchange gifts. The woman knows that the man is not just trying to get into her pants. The man knows that the woman is not just looking for a meal ticket. These are two people each already complete and happy with or without the other.

That is the foundation for a really rich and rewarding relationship and I think that kind of relationship is what Ayn Rand describes in her novel "Atlas Shrugged." It starts out with self-esteem, not need, and builds on desire.

Desire rocks but need sucks. Barbra Streisand is way off base when she sings that people who need people are lucky. More often needy people are miserable.

Why do we hear so much about need and pursuit and so little about desire? William Blake gets it right: "Bring me my bow of burning gold ... bring me my chariot of fire ... bring me my arrows of desire."
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 191 (view)
 
after 40 it is really hard to find a date
Posted: 3/24/2009 6:04:52 AM


I find it difficult to find a date, muchless fine a compatible man. I am ignored by most men since I have not been married, and to most am an average/cute plump women who is shorter than the seemingly required standard of 5'5''-5'8. plus I have opinions and put up with and give very little crap.


I think a lot of women sell themselves short. This poster seems to think she has to go along with the men she perceives as concerned about her features such as her weight. Maybe she is better off without knowing those kind of men anyway. You do NOT have an obligation to conform to the expectations of others. Your first duty is to be true to yourself.

I have noticed that there are some physically unattractive women who gave no trouble attracting and holding men's attention and affection. How so? It's because of what they DO, not what they look like.

Nobody has much control over the body they have, when it comes to things like eye color, height, etc., but every one of us has a lot of choices about what we DO. Why not quit worrying about what you DON'T have and just use to the full what you DO have?

Any woman with eyelashes can learn to flutter them. Any woman with a face can smile at a man. If she gives signs of interest, she attracts interest. Shrinking violets are a dime a dozen and they are boring; women who think they just wait for attention don't deserve to get much attention. There is no law against a woman saying "Hello" yet many women seem to think they gave to wait passively for men to open a conversation. Why?

It's an old cliché yet it's oh so true. No man can resist being attracted to scents - and I don't mean Chanel Number 5. I mean the aroma of fresh cooked foods. Grilled onions in the skillet. Home baked bread just out of the oven. And most irresistible of all - cinnamon cookies. I don't think any man in the world doesn't respond with positive feelings to somebody who places a surprise plate of home baked hot cinnamon cookies in front of him instead of expecting him to take her out to a restaurant. Betty Crocker and Aunt Jemima will still be around when Madonna and Paris Hilton are history.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 182 (view)
 
after 40 it is really hard to find a date
Posted: 3/23/2009 8:40:56 PM
Look at this, chevelle:



I want to find the woman of my dreams the one who will complete me.


Try rewriting it in other words and see if you can imagine any smart female being attracted:

1. "Instead of recognizing you for what you actually are I will always be comparing you with the unrealistic ideal I fantasize in my mind."

2. "I am not a complete human being but missing something and instead of working on myself to become whole I intend to use you as a repair kit to patch up my sad life."
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 301 (view)
 
How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/23/2009 4:10:39 PM


If a man or woman have to "pursue" someone to get a commitment, you're chasing the wrong person.


Exactly. Whether you are male or female, if you are a grown up human being and not just a child, you will have learned to (1) have a desire, (2) express your desire, (3) accept that you may or may not get your desire satisfied and the Earth will still rotate every 24 hours anyway.

That's reality.

No "pursuit" involved, just honesty.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 675 (view)
 
Are there ANY women who don't CHEAT?
Posted: 3/21/2009 7:53:56 AM
Can't believe this thread has gone on for 27 pages yet it all started with a spoof. Come on. The OP isn't believable. Wake up, people. Just a troll.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 278 (view)
 
How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/19/2009 8:15:31 PM




Isn't it possible to enjoy the other sex without assuming that jumping into bed is expected?

I'm sure it's possible, but then, those are just friends, not romances then?


Nonsense. I have enjoyed real relationships of love and romance without any implication at all of getting physical.

And BTW "friendship" does NOT mean "love lite."
.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 275 (view)
 
How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/19/2009 4:21:10 PM


I don't continue to date men I am not interested in a physical relationship with.


Whatever floats your boat. In my life some of the most rewarding of my many relationships with attractive women has been where a physical relationship is not involved. I really like attractive women and what the heck, ugly ones too. Females are not just warm receptacles, they are delightful human beings who bring me a lot of pleasure (and pain too.)

A lesbian. Lasted for years.

A married Swiss who introduced me to her husband then took me off in her Mercedes Benz for a few days in the Alps with his blessing - no doubt he recognized that I am not just a horny American child out to get his rocks off but a civilized human being as able as any European to appreciate and enjoy beautiful intelligent women without feeling the need to get into their pants.

A fascinating Brahmin woman whose husband was away at Princeton for the summer, so she and I enjoyed each other's company every day, and we both chatted with him on the phone at times. Neither he nor she was possessive or jealous or insecure. And as for sex, she didn't do it even with her husband because her Hindu faith requires abstinence not just until marriage but until pregnancy is intended. I totally enjoyed the wonderful Indian dinners she prepared for me, no restaurant comes close.

Isn't it possible to enjoy the other sex without assuming that jumping into bed is expected? Has anybody read about the wonderful love affair between George Bernard Shaw and the Abbess of Stanbrook - the mother superior of a convent?
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 245 (view)
 
How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 8:44:29 PM


"cold hard rationality" could only lead to a friendship, not a romantic relationship for me.



Isn't friendship the best foundation on which to build a romantic relationship?
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 239 (view)
 
How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 6:54:12 PM
Reading Daisy's post with all the respect I can muster, I shake my head and surmise that we speak different languages. How so? I looked up her profile and see she is in BC. I would not have thought BC is very different from California, but maybe I err. I expected her to be in, oh, let's say, South Podunk, Kansas, but no, I was mistaken.

But look at this:



....to base ALL of your experiences on what women want on one experience with one woman is so limiting...


Who could disagree with that? I have been fortunate enough to love and live with many wonderful women. The wife I loved most (and still do) is a skilled marriage counselor and I learned a lot from her. I have had enough experience of wonderful women to appreciate how awesome females can be. Yet there may be a sampling bias: most of the women in my life are very successful in whatever they do. I don't have much experience with less "successful" women however I do not wish to judge or belittle Rosie the Riveter or Margie the Waitress or Holly the Hooker for being whatever they are. There's room for all.




I am glad that you found happiness with a woman who didn't like to be courted....

I didn't say that. What is noticeable is that emotionally mature and secure women do not need to be courted. They have desires, are not ashamed to have desires, they express desires, and know that sometimes you get what you want and sometimes you don't. They are grown up, not children.




A savvy man who wants to improve his chances with women should read what the majority of women do want.



Any man who thinks of women in terms of his "improving his chances" may be a terrific gambler but he is not a grown up or a lover.




Yes...there are women out there who do believe in the aggressive persuit of men...but... ....



Any woman or any man who considers "agressive pursuit" appropriate in human relationships will do well to become a Marine or Army infantryman, or a used car salesman, or a missionary. She or he is not a lover. Love is about giving, "aggressive pursuit" is about getting.




He never learned to romance or court her...and now she wants it in her marriage. She will be starved after awhile. Then she will be susceptible to a man who can romance her...



There's a good point. Fools think that romance is a weapon to win the affection of another person. Real people know that romance is a gift you give to a person you already love. A rewarding stable relationship is often built on people who give each other more and more romance as time goes by. I have known such couples. Children assume that you can turn on romance to "win" your "prize" and then you may turn off the romance faucet, or maybe the tank just runs dry.



....they knew how to treat a woman well. ...



There is no such thing as knowing how to treat a woman well. What there is, is - being a person who knows how to treat other human beings well.

What is "a woman?" There is no such thing as a generic woman; each woman is unique and different and individual. That's one reason I love women.

Is there any reason why one's ability to treat others well is gender-specific? I think it may be best a case-by-case choice, one person at a time.



When they decided that they were interested in me, nothing...short of a freight train....stopped them from trying to impress me with their charm, their intelligence, their financials, their ability to protect, their leadership skills...and I loved it.



Sandbox stuff.




And... the worst thing that I didn't like? It's the man who will not get to know a woman through dating and courting. He expected on the first date that it has to be sexual right from the get go.



Any man whose goal is sexual release has a serious problem and a lot of growing up to do. And any woman who us so dumb that she lets a man like that into her life also has a lot of growing up to do. Tell the dude that you are not available to serve as a substitute for his right hand.

And anybody who thinks that "courting" and "dating" is an adequate way to get to know another person definitely needs to read some real books and less sentimental fiction.




...we women have the evolutionary priviledge of telling a man NO with our words, our actions and our body language that we are not into him sexually....in other words...shot down.



What sexist nonsense. Every human being has the right at any time to make choices including whether or not one chooses to engage in sexual intimacy. It is NOT just for women. I have kicked a woman out of my bed and am not shattered if my sexual overtures are declined and respect the right of choice every person I relate to, male or female. It is NOT a privilege only of females to make choices and if all that absurd argument can rest on is alleged evolutionary biology then hello, we are no longer animals in the jungle (I hope).




As to OP's question? .....It should never stop....why should something so pleasurable as romance between two people ever stop?



It should START, not stop, when a relationship is established.

The former wife I still love is the one who, even years after we divorced, continued to show affection for me with little presents left on my doorstep in Chicago, stuff like that. And last week when the radio played a piece of music I know she likes, I immediately telephoned her so she could hear it. You do NOT need to be hostile to those with whom you no longer maintain a marriage or committed relationship and you do NOT need to stop romantic gestures.




... The slow dancing to the Righteous Bros. ...



LOL. Try Stevie Wonder's "Songs in the Key of Life."




He says he would do this for the rest of his life....for me. What woman can resist that?



A woman who lives by intelligence rather than being swept away by her emotions.

.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 224 (view)
 
How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 2:57:06 PM


... I am a lady....


I hope you are first and foremost a woman and a female. "Lady" and "gentleman" refer to behavior, not person, and they have implications of class distinction (a lady is not a peasant.) Behavior is important and I like gentle people, but I do not think it is wholesome to be defined by behavior especially if it means conformity to norms set by others such as Miss Manners or Emily Post.

In bed, I want a "female." In life, I want a "woman." A "lady" is fine for a fancy $300 dinner at the Waldorf Astoria or the White House banquet but at home it's really O.K. with me if you leave off the white gloves and take off your Manolo Blahnik heels at the door.


I have manners and I do call back if I am interested ( it has to be something about you that is impossible for me to resist)....


Ouch. If you ever call me back I hope it will be because you COULD resist but CHOSE FREELY to call. I don't need unfree people in my life.



... Never take anything or anyone for granted...make it a dance....I do love to tango....


Ah! Finally Daisy says something I can totally agree with!!!

Nietzsche says it well: I will not worship any god who does not dance.

Life is a joyful playful dance, not a funeral procession.

Man-woman relationships are part of that wonderful pattern of play. And of all dances arguably tango is the sexiest.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 214 (view)
 
How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 8:42:08 AM





We all know that a great looking, fit, confident woman with lots of smarts and wit, who has a great career doesn't chase men...doesn't need to persue them.....because she doesn't have to

Many women that fit that criteria would rather persue, than be pursued. It's way sexier. Ask any guy who been with such a woman....


Ask me, if you like. The woman I loved most in all my life until she died, was a great looking, fit, confident person with lots of smarts and wit, who had a great career - she built a prosperous business in Los Angeles from the ground up - and she never chased me and I never chased her.

We were equals and respected each other and loved each other. I won't settle for children who think that being female makes them prizes or princesses. I like real whole complete secure human beings and if I ever want games will play at the casino, not in personal social life. And face it, that high school "pursuit" thing is a game.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 213 (view)
 
How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/17/2009 8:27:13 AM


We all know that a great looking, fit, confident woman with lots of smarts and wit, who has a great career doesn't chase men...doesn't need to persue them.....because she doesn't have to.

True. And we all know that a great looking, fit, confident man with lots of smarts and wit, who has a great career doesn't chase women...doesn't need to pursue them.....because he doesn't have to.

"Chasing" and "pursuing" and "wooing" and "hunting" and "striving" and "courting" are all quaintly charming behaviors for us when we are immature teenagers who don't yet know the difference between love and infatuation. I had a puppy who used to hump the table leg. For a few unhappy years, hormones rule. A lot of bad fiction is built around that immature stage in life, the myth of the "wonderful" high school years.

Then we grow up. Most of us, at least. Well, O.K. some of us.

You figure out that love isn't something to "get" or to "seek," it's something to give. and when you do give love, it flows back to you effortlessly now you are not just loved but loving and lovable.

You become no longer a child but a real person. Recognizing yourself as a person you see others to as persons, not bait, and you find that you can live by making choices, not just driven by needs.

When a real man and a real woman meet each other, they know that they are equals and can relate to each other by free informed responsible choice. An example is the man and woman in the novel "Atlas Shrugged." Each is complete and whole before they choose to get together. They never NEED each other.

When a real man and a real woman meet neither of them will pursue the other or expect to be pursued. Each will respect the other as a person, not as a prize to be won like landing a prize fish in a sporting contest.

If they each make the free choice to build a relationship, they will proceed as intelligent responsible adults to make it work, and they are likely to find they can do it well with enduring results. Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward showed that it can be done. So can you.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 188 (view)
 
How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/16/2009 8:30:02 PM


You have made your point quite clear.......you will NOT persue or court...or..and you expect the women to do it all.....

Obviously I did NOT make my point quite clear since I do NOT "expect the woman to do it all."

I will go half way to meet anyone, as an equal, and do not expect either party to do any "pursuing" or "courting" or any other Victorian-era stuff like that as if real life is anything like a Harlequin novel, the kind known as the "bodice-ripper," that you buy at the drug store paperback rack, romantic fantasies of courtship and woo.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 183 (view)
 
How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/16/2009 6:21:00 PM


If I like a male...I just smile at him in a certain way....then I see what he is like by the way he "persues" me....or "courts" me.

Well, if you want men to "pursue" or "court" you, good luck, I wish you well, but no man with any self-respect "courts" or "pursues" in 2009 - that stuff belongs to the era of Jane Austen's novels. The kind of men who "court" or "pursue" today are not exactly the men most likely to be worth investing the rest of your life with. Unless, that is, you intend to be in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant.


So...now show me that I should put you at the head of the pack....

If you really perceive men as being in a "pack" then you have more serious problems than I realized.


...I have never had to "court or persue" a man and I never will.

I once thought I had to "court" or "pursue" women - then I grew up and discovered that REAL women don't expect to be "courted" or "pursued" or "wooed."

So I gave up that kid stuff and found my life went a whole lot better. And when I met a woman who was my EQUAL, and insisted in it, and treated me as her equal, we lived together then got married - a really wonderful woman and I still miss her and will NEVER settle for some pathetic little helpless clinging vine who needs to be "pursued".


There are plenty of men out there who have no problem in "persuing".
[/qyuote]
Yep. There will always be plenty of those fools left over to satisfy the old fashioned females who want to live in the past. After all, it took hundreds of thousands of years for the dinosaures to disappear even though they were obsolete long before they knew it.


As far as paying for the "courting" process. There are so many ways to "give" in the courting stage. My initial way of reciprocating is to invite him to dinner and I put on a fabulous dinner as I am a very good cook. Anything from lobster to Thai...

Hopefully gneroosity and caring has NOTHING to do with some "courting stage" but is simply the way a caring person, male or female, shows affection for another person. It is just decent civilized social behavior.

If you show kindness, with food, to a person you meet, let us hope you don't switch it off when you think you have "landed" him. If you think that way he will probably see through your scheming unless he is seriously dumb.


As far as giving sex....

WHOA. Since when is sex something you "give?" If I go to bed with a woman it is because that is what we BOTH WANT, not because somebody is "giving sex" or doing me a favor. Frankly, if I don't know that a woman WANTS sex with me to ENJOY it for HER OWN pleasure then I won't touch her with a forty foot pole.
 fra59e
Joined: 6/4/2005
Msg: 176 (view)
 
How long do men feel the need to pursue?
Posted: 3/16/2009 5:00:02 PM


What, I as a woman, got out of your post is this....

What do you get out of posts as a HUMAN BEING? Do you think women are supposed to have some different kind of perception of reality?


... You look at me. I look at you. If you are interested in meeting me, you just look at me until I come over and flirt with you.

Nope. I look at you, and if you look away then I keep moving. I don't need you.

If you look back, I keep looking. Maybe our eyes lock. If you smile, I'm on my way over. If you act all coy like a shrinking violet who expects to be chased or wooed or pursued, it's goodbye, I will give my attention to a grown up person, not a child, because if I want games I know where to find the videogame arcade.

And I have a wonderful sentence to use if I am interested in meeting you. It goes like this:

"I would like to meet you."

Wow. Amazing. So simple yet so honest.

And you DO always gave the right to accept or reject my friendly approach; I do NOT NEED your approval but I may DESIRE to meet you. Big difference.
 
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