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promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 33 (view)

Meds - for bipolar and depression Posted: 9/9/2008 10:59:07 PM
I wanted to pipe in about My Remedy. First – I'm as Bipolar as it gets, apparently I have the GRK3 gene mutations on chromosome 22q, all six, neatly in a row, including pesky P5. Any one of these alone is perfectly lethal to the human embryo, how I could have inherited them all is an evolutionary mystery, but – there they are. Cool Beans. My neurological system is markedly physiologically different from, er, normal. GRK3 controls Dopamine production – I am told that the end effect here is precisely equivalent to a constant infusion of cocaine. Funny how it appears that way from the outside, too. When cops sometimes stop me to see what I'm on, I occasionally knock them flat. Second – I place a high value on hypomania. I am made this way – I do not accept it, I embrace it, there is great power here, and I feel I have a responsibility to explore it. I get a great deal done when hypomanic; my Navy record for continuous work is about 11 days, entirely without sleep – while doing the work of three or four, error-free. The Navy liked it very, very much, as the record will show – they were very, very good to me, and were remarkably tolerant of fluctuations in my case, apparently because my skills were unique – as I sought to make them. I feel like Superman when hypomanic, and the record will also show – I have an objective claim to the title. I don't fit the Fordist model of production, whoop-de-do. Therefore, I am sick so-sez-you. I will not buy in. I consider myself successful in life overall to an astonishing degree, I love who I am, what I get and what I give, and I guess it'll just have to do, eh? ---------------------------------------------------- Ah, but the depression, and I've been in many paralytic ones – not enough serotonin available to so much as speak, many weeks at a time, dropping maybe 45 pounds, living hell. But I keep marching when in hell, and have always come out the other side – better off than when I went in. It's a learning experience, you know, and not to be missed. And now – hell doesn't happen anymore, for two full years in a previous six-month cycle. I think I've fixed it. Treatment for depression often consists of tinkering with the serotonin mechanisms, such as SSRIs – Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitors. This is a slow, conservative attempt to increase serotonin by slowing the mechanisms designed to recapture excess serotonin in the system, and it takes a while. It can be dangerous – and the patient is often exposed to suicide risk on the way out of the Pit, over long periods. We become just strong enough to kill ourselves while still quite terrified, late from the Pit. I've found another way; I simply ingest a massive dose of serotonin, and it seems to completely reset the mechanism BOING! within hours, instead of weeks and months. The downside? The effect is – six to eight hours of the most intense and vivid visual hallucination. Generally, it is beautiful beyond description – could be worse, I think. Also, it is very, very cheap, and could cause a general failure of the US and world economy, according to some. I have lingering doubts here – those who say so don't know how to spell it in the law correctly, after all. Psilocyn / Psilocybin, as found in ye olde Magic Mushrooms, is a serotonin analogue. The standard dose – about 21 mg for a man my size – is generally effective, but as it is so safe, I've taken about 250 times that – without a markedly different effect, it is a self-mediating hallucinogen. I only took that much because – it was there, my garden bloomed in fantastic profusion, it was too tempting an experiment. Not much risk, excellent outcome. I note also that the effect of the drug while in a hypomanic state is – equivalent to about two cups of strong coffee. This is very telling; apparently, I'm filled to the brim with serotonin in the hypomanic state, and adding more has little effect – it self-mediates, always. Research this, and make your own choices, but – oh man, it sure works for me, and if you have this problem, you may deem it worth trying. I pop right back into mild hypomania, and stay there for months. I also use diet now, and am 100% raw vegan. My groceries currently cost about $70 / mo. with delivery, too. A slightly boring, but filling, relatively pure and overwhelmingly nutritious diet. I trade culinary interest for efficiency, and get a huge benefit for a slight emotional cost, which one may readily adjust to. Anybody interested in the diet – poke me, I'll send you a link to my pages within Nutritiondata.com. Anyone interested in the remedy should do their own research, but – let it be known that the technique has advanced rapidly in recent years, and you can grow them great numbers in blocks of rye medium sitting in the open air, on a bookshelf, in the dark – with the application of slight amounts of food-grade hydrogen peroxide, while keeping a petri dish of culture in the fridge longtime. No sterile environment is required, other than the initial state of the dish. Luv, LUCI, the Light of the Mind

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 165 (view)

Would you date a middle aged woman with a young child? Posted: 9/9/2008 2:38:46 PM
Dearest Fairsong: If I may suggest it – you perhaps think that men are repelled by your child, but remember that it is good to repel these men, they avoid responsibility, and embrace weakness. Baby is bellwether here, flagging potential parasites. Better another, that seizes all the responsibility he can, the power to change things. There are plenty of men who would jump at the chance – you're cute, you're cultured, you're well spoken and educated plenty. Baby is darling, too, an excellent package deal. You're evidently doing all right for yourself – you appear quite healthy, and that's what really counts. Maybe it's something else, and maybe – just maybe, now – you put it on the little sweetie, and avoid facing the problems, and – it does not serve you, or anyone else. Examine some possible alternative views. I like you, tho I may seem aggressive at times – naw, I'm totally aggressive, and it works for me, mostly. But I make adjustments for what I really want, and all smart men do. You will need to also, on the way to El Dorado. There is no Royal Road. We've had some exchanges, and I find you a little evasive. I don't think it's intentionally deceptive at all – you are trying to be too polite, you wish to avoid all possible conflict. I, for one, want to test your mettle before I buy. If you bite me hard, you are strong, and it is most desirable in a mate. Don't be so shy, these guys are all at safe distance. Advertise yourself – assert who you are, uniquely you, inquiring minds want to know. Never lie about it, there is no need. You have a facile mind, and that is your greatest asset – at least from here, but - the pictures are real nice, too. I don't mind if someone is totally different – I like it, lots. I don't think it is a common like, but I think it is better. A diversity of thought breeds new and useful thoughts, discussion, truth-seeking. Speak your mind, that a real man might choose it, someone bold to complement your type, if not match it. You need only match where you meet, it is enough. Don't come in with too many preconceptions of what constitutes happiness – stick to that too tightly, and you find misery instead, I fear. Happiness only happens in the Now. You are unique, and so are we. Never stray from adaptability. Change is a constant. There are too many variables, and you must learn to improvise as well as plan. So hey, Girl – don't be afraid to say who you are, up front. If they run, you've saved some precious time. If you hesitate, we become suspicious – it cannot be helped, it's human nature. If it offends you, if it offends them, we all must learn to be tougher thereby. If it hurts, it may just make you stronger – by expanding the limits of your conception, and your bounds of creativity. You – and only you - may allow what will hurt you, and what will not. You have nothing to fear but fear itself – fear fear's paralysis first. Curiosity killed the cat – but if I'm not mistaken, many, many cats remain, and need curiosity to survive. Men need it, too. There is risk in both directions, and curiosity is evidently safer in the long run, so – we need to know things. Speak, O Sphinx, and I assent you may devour me if I fail the test. If you really want it, you must do what needs to be done. No one will, no one can, do it for you. I see you classy, well-ordered – and now, I want to see what makes you shake your fist in the air and curse, and I envision it as glorious. We want to know the actual boundaries of the other – we can't respect them 'till we know them thus. But some will be damned tenacious, despite this. It is a good sign, I say. Based upon the voluminous evidence above, you must assent – you have great appeal to someone. LUCI the Light of the Mind

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 3 (view)

Christian Church Posted: 9/9/2008 12:43:20 PM
May I offer a new one – I am starting a Humanist Church (and yes, there is great precedent.) Religion is not the issue – Mankind is the issue, and religion merely another issue within it. Come as you are, Homo Sapien. Being about everyone, and being about Egalitarianism, the vast tax benefits will be equally distributed to the Membership at large – perhaps even Diplomatic Status. I support all comers with substantive service – beginning with Info and Data services too good to be true – yet, you may verify. We are Humanist Association of San Diego, and I am but one – look us up! ----------------------------- LUCI Light of the Mind

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 126 (view)

Why Do Atheists Get Such A Bad rap? Posted: 9/9/2008 12:26:36 PM
Apparently, there are those that think I should be filled with something other than myself, yet fail to suggest some possible mechanism that I might be filled with another, and survive. Some feel they are filled by another, but it just ain't so - they put the filling off on some other imaginary party, and seek to deny responsibility for themselves - yet again. Apparently, some are annoyed at the suggestion that Idiots are sometimes annoying, and thus are apparently Idiots. They prove that Idiots are often annoying and delightful at the same time, and it is better. Deny that Idiots can be annoying. You claim I am Idiot, and it annoys you. Reflexivity, iteration, elude you completely. Tickle back if ya can, oh Object of Mine Innocent Merriment! ____________________ LUCI the Light of Mind

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 94 (view)

Are you your Car? Posted: 9/9/2008 11:00:14 AM
OTAY Hans, I concede that thou art indeed wise on Buell! I was seduced by engineering Ideas, not Performance. But Dewd, I found it - my car of cars - which just happens to be classed as a motorcycle, HA! It's the Aptera - look it up, you won't wanna miss this. My son the Budding Astrophysicist selected it from a review of 27 available electric vehicles - some of which are not actually available - and I'm puttin' $500 dollars down, by Jove. The company checks out. And yes, I will Cruise for Chickees! 300 mpg, 600 mile range (in the Hybrid), thrilling acceleration, stable, cornering, and less overall aerodynamic drag than a single Toyota windshield wiper. $30k - beat that! The Tesla is wunnerful, but pricy - and a little schlocky to me. It is ME. I am IT. It is the very soul of efficiency, and there is much efficiency in my soul. And OH, What a BEAUTIFUL Thing. Your Artistic Assessment, Sirrah? LUCI the Light of the Mind

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 58 (view)

Do numbers exist? Posted: 9/9/2008 9:44:20 AM
Now wait just a darned minute. Numbers exist – but are abstractions, purely a human construct – well, er, my cat seems to know a big mouse from a little one, and that is Numeracy, period. They exist in a perfectly physical sense – as everything does – and they consist of Neural Interconnections. They are Symbols, they are Information, they consist of the property of Shape alone – they have Topology - inscribed upon the physical medium of the human brain, and may be transcribed into virtually any medium, NO - ANY MEDIUM - stored, processed, retrieved, communicated – in an animal and in a machine - and inscribed upon another medium as yet another copy. First the BluePrints, then the Shining Cities. By modeling, we anticipate and conquer the future – one second from now, and into the far future. And this is why they are so damned useful – they are Efficient. They are quick. Without them – all is lost. With them – we often still are lost, but less so, or less often. So Dere! LUCI, the Light of the Mind

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 123 (view)

Why Do Atheists Get Such A Bad rap? Posted: 9/9/2008 7:20:18 AM
Heidi Ho! I've been away from this thread for a while. I rescanned it, and would like to ReSet. Q1) Why do Atheists get such a bad rap? A1) Because - while there is no God, Idiots are everywhere; while, like God, they see all, unlike God, they know nothing. Idiots are not a Bad Thing, they just are. There is no thing that's good or ill but Thinking makes it so. I think Idiots are often annoying, and often very convenient. Excellent on toast; difficult to direct towards a common goal - however, they do waste perfectly good oxygen on a continuous basis, and this should be nipped in the bud. If I say I am an Atheist, everyone assumes they know what that means; however, I find that every persons system of belief is utterly unique. This, I think, is probably because every person's genetics are utterly unique, their environment and therefore experience is utterly unique - and they all seem to occupy different points in space, too. Is that surprising? People believe in God because they were told to. I was told to believe in God, and I was told to believe in logic. I found one was much more useful than the other - especially in the complete absence of the other. Occasionally, someone defines a God for me, and I see that I am one. They could be too, but - they are apparently psychologically blocked. They crave being told what to do - it's easy. I crave doing what I will - it's productive. We have a problem defining Atheism. We also have a problem defining God. I should not be an Atheist in the eyes of anyone who cannot define God. It's fun to watch someone writhe while trying to do that, and I think it may be good for them. Categorization is a useful disease, but I try to remember that what I think of a Thing is not the Thing per se. The Thing is; the perception of a Thing is, but the Thing and the perception of the Thing are entirely different Things. The map is not the territory, but many mathematicians are mystic - they come to believe number has power, and are right, but forget that numbers are entirely a human construct - like Good and Evil - and they assign the wrong kind of power, becoming Numerologists. Magical Thinking is easy to do; reification is a reflex, it is the default mode of human thought - which only discipline may overcome. Einstein said "God does not play dice!"; and then, Neils Bohr said - "Stop telling God what to do!" I say "what does that have to do with anything?" And then I say "why - it is deeply amusing, of course." We also like to say that the abscence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but this is too broad, merely a weak rule of thumb, not the Law. If the security cameras were on continuously and didn't see me, I regard it as excellent evidence I wasn't there, but - no, it is not absolute, only highly probable. I say I am probably an Atheist in your eyes because the God you would probably describe definitely cannot logically exist, and I do believe in logic because it definitely works every time I have used it; if it didn't, I invariably find I screwed up, where logic did not. We are all weak, but I prefer to be stronger, and I do it all the time. I say I am Atheist, and if you don't like it, then I feel that I can often make that YOUR problem, Bubba - and my profit. ------------------------------------ If Jesus loves me - how come he never writes? If I must come to the unconditional love of Jesus - is that not a condition? What if I do not desire to BE loved, but only desire TO love? What if my vision of Heaven is to make Jesus my pillowbiter? If Jesus loves me, and I don't love him back - who's problem is that? - and if he stalks me as a result, should I not feel perfectly justified in beating his ass? ------------------------------------ LUCI, the Light of the Mind

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 69 (view)

Why Do Atheists Get Such A Bad rap? Posted: 3/30/2008 8:20:11 AM
I want to applaud this thread - some excellent research here. I would recommend the Happy Atheist forum - and you can find it on Google in a flash. First, I would like to point out that Atheism is on the rise at a stunning rate in the US, and Christianity appears to be collapsing from within and without - as the per capita of Christians drops overall, the proportion that refuses to identify with any particular sect rises. Avowed atheists run about 16 % - Jews, for instance, only 2.3 % I won't lay more numbers on ya - they're easy enough to find, and you all seem to know how. I am a Strong Atheist, meaning - it's not that I merely disbelieve in God, but BELIEVE there are no Gods. I have refused to swear by "so help me God" before, and been accommodated. I can't cite any specific instances of discrimination personally, but then again, I rarely announce my belief in public - unless I am asked. - that's Minnesota, an extremely liberal environment - but take my word for it - don't go 'round tellin' folks you're a atheist in Oklahoma, they just might burn you down; and really, no worse than if you're Muslim or Greek Orthodox. I find great solace in the idea of No Hereafter. I live a joyous and loving life, and receive much love in return - frankly, all I can handle. I will fight for another's right to believe in ghosts - but I will also fight others that apply superstition to destructive effect, within the law - and within common decency. All I seek is consistency, integration of my thoughts, words and deeds, and atheism provides a firm model for this, but more than that - I think it true, and that is enough. All I can say is - if some chick turns me down because I'm atheist - good riddance. I intentionally select nonreligious women to contact, and have had plenty of luck. Sometimes, a religious gal contacts me, and atheism has NEVER been the deal breaker. It's a big pond here - don't sweat it. Luv, LUCI

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 47 (view)

Do numbers exist? Posted: 3/30/2008 12:19:42 AM
Nice thread – very revealing! Someone said (scorpiomover, I think) that “what I consider to exist, exists.” I believe I have encountered many people with this problem – in the religious forums. This idea can be very difficult to cure. Number is an abstraction; we define numbers by abstract properties. Confusion arises – a thing only can be said to exist if it has discernible properties; we assume a thing with properties exists – but in this case, we arbitrarily choose a set of abstract properties FIRST, defining a hypothetical object – number. Number can only be said to exist in a physical sense as an order imposed upon a neural network in our heads – or in a machine, which is exactly what we are. The utility of number is that we may simplify a complex world and reduce it to symbol, and manipulate this very rapidly, but – although I may easily manipulate the numbers, I truly can have no concept of, say, a billion items per se – my machine is simply too small, and not made that way. Take irrational numbers as an example – we use them, but we do not use all of them – we can only use them to some arbitrary, but quite finite, degree of precision. We say they extend without repetition to infinity, and I say – show me, silly boy. The universe is quite finite, in all senses, both in the Big and Small directions. There is no Infinity, and there is no NoThing. Number can create confusion about this. What I speak of here is called Reification, the idea that a well-defined abstraction has a physical existence, simply because it is well-defined – or worse, because I like it. It denotes an inability to manage abstraction on a very low level. For instance, many religious people are, in my view, unduly concerned with the Physical Jesus, and have little or know concern for his concepts expressed – and I often find that they are completely unfamiliar with these. I've studied him, and taken all together, I find him to be a self-aggrandizing lout – and frankly, I think could do better. I would start with a better plan, for one – a well-enumerated abstraction. Being omniscient n' all, I would very much like to attend his lecture on Lie Algebras. Luv, LUCI

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 18 (view)

What do you make of this? need some perspective Posted: 3/28/2008 7:04:35 AM
I read the post, I read the thread, and I thought most of the responses very negative and potentially damaging - except for Tantric, who should not be ignored just because she is concise. But great patience is difficult for you now, you can't avoid speculating. Seize upon positive speculations, and discard the negative ones as - beneath you. Be noble, and you can't lose; and there is no anger - for there is no fear - from a standpoint of nobility. Apply compassion to him, and to yourself - but do not confuse it with pity, a big no-no. I speak as a dyed-in-the-genes manic depressive; I know this cycle, I have seen it again and again in myself and others, and even if I'm wrong, it is a positive view to grasp unto - you can build a deep affection for someone in three months, and that won't go easily. In a nutshell - as we fall into depression, our loved ones tend to flock around us - and we see that when we hurt, they hurt. Thus - our very existence is pain to our loved ones, and we tend to flee - sometimes across continents, sometimes with a razor. Note that the underlying motivation of this person may be to minimize your pain, i.e. he truly cares for you - but he is deluded by biochemistry. The actions you describe all indicate a psychosis - it is very, very common. It is not your fault - it is not his fault, it is just one of those things nature hands us to test our mettle. Written messages will probably be ignored - he may be in a state where he simply cannot think, let alone read messages or compose responses. If you really need to know (and you clearly do), you should calmly build a list of anyone that knows him, and ask around - don't panic about it, do a little every day, and you will feel a little better for having done it every day. NEVER approach anyone here in anger or excitement - they will shut you out, the word will spread, and then - you're done, you've failed. His relatives and friends may try to hide his illness to protect him from stigma. Let them know you suspect mental illness, it doesn't make a difference, that you would not break confidence - and merely need to know that he is alive, and if you can provide any possible assistance. Let them know you truly care, and if they are fairminded, they are obligated to satisfy your questions. It sounds like a visit is the first order of business, but bring a friend - there is a slight, but definite, possibility of personal danger. If you do your best and fail - you did your best, and you can live with that; but get pissed, and you've already lost - and you'll just keep losing. To do you best you must first calm yourself, tend to yourself, and THINK it out. Toadie - "the softest thing in the world rides triumphantly over the hardest thing in the world, as the sea rises over the mountains." - Lao Tzu

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 138 (view)

Would you date a middle aged woman with a young child? Posted: 3/27/2008 9:54:22 PM
I consider a woman with children a package deal - and a very attractive package, too. What frightens Real Men about this situation most, I think, is that the package is most attractive when the mother/child bond is strongest, we deeply fear interfering with that; we also strongly fear building a bond with a child, and then abandoning or otherwise letting them down hard. It is always best, I think, to be up front about that with the man, and plumb his reasons - if he merely fears responsibility - RUN AWAY! He is a child himself, and will STRIVE to draw your attention away from the kids, a recipe for disaster. If he's worried about hurting your kids - you are on the right track. He should allow to avoid meeting the kids or interacting with them much at first, and ensure that he is ready to make the REAL commitment - to the kids, before he proceeds; they are the delicate ones. Sometimes, the kids have drawn me in, I find Mom is intolerable too late - and I end by burning the poor tots by walking away. Talk about guilt! - won't do THAT again... Take your time, guys - be VERY careful, but - you know you want it! Good things take good work, and better things deserve better work; we are paid accordingly.

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 21 (view)

What is Love to you - EXACTLY? Posted: 3/27/2008 5:03:51 AM
Okay, I'm going to list some possible Love Decisions. Sometimes we see pure love - no expectation of reward or recognition, or even so much as feedback - no possibility of observing the result, but merely the hope of the desired outcome. This has an abstract emotional payoff. Then we have the next step, where we can see the result, and get direct emotional payoff. exceptionally bad emotions occur when our efforts yield a bad result, and harm rather than help the object of love - such as guilt, otherwise known as self-hatred; it is natural to hate that which hurts our love object. There are "mixed states", what I like to call Impure Love - that's where reciprocal contracts come in, but some of these are necessary - such as sexual fidelity, so men may know they are not wasting energy raising the children of another man, and a woman may assume her husband will protect her and the children while bearing and raising them. these are the traditional biological roles for reproduction. We may feel same-sex love, love for animals, love for nature, etc. - object where applied love might have so positive result for the beloved. then there is balanced love - roughly equinanimous - and it is an unstable state, perfect equality is unlikely. What seems to work best between two or a small group (say, a family) is what I call the Competition of Love. I love you, see a good result, and you love me back, and see a good result - there are now TWO emotional payoffs for each. this can develop into a competition where each is inspired to outlove the other; it can start small, and work very rapidly - and it tends to promote Differential Reproductive Success, so it's probably the best - seems like it - Nature seems to think so. Self-love is necessary, or we can't love others intimately - in fact, we tend to kill ourselves, quick or slow. If we have it, we must balance it with the love for others - take care of ourselves, that we may love best. Finally, I sometime say I "love" stargazing. I doubt I can do much for the stars, but driven by emotional payoff that feels like the "feeling" of love (biochemically, I'm sure it is) I observe them more and more closely, get paid off frequently, and with this ancient curiosity for the celestial we are seemingly loved back - when we know to plant and know to harvest, as well as synchronize our clocks so modern society may function. But to love without an object - including ourselves; love must have Object - Object comes first! Love is the basic motivation to DO THINGS (RE Objects), and we need that - curiosity! I just analyze like this because I'm doing my work to Love Right - and it's been workin' REAL GOOD lately! But hey - love always has a payoff for the lover - it is Pleasure, the thing that pushes us TOWARD what Nature intended - Pain pushes us away. Any Utilitarianism out there? Splinters n' Chips, Pinocchio

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 12 (view)

Zero by thirty... Posted: 3/25/2008 10:25:51 PM
I have a situation where I DON'T want to meet women without filtering first. I;ve been married twice, and lived long-term with several women - but I've only had one date in my life - got attacked halfway through, went home - and stayed there for two years. It seems women stick to me, can't say why - not handsome, not muscular, not wealthy. Conversation seems the most likely culprit - I can talk my way into or out of anything. Sometimes I talk my way into a bad thing, and out of a good thing - I'm getting better on that - but my relationships are all random collisions, and I need one to last. I'm trying PoF to apply filters first. I have learned that nymphomaniacs are, by definition, crazy people - great at first, but in the long run - there is no long run. Half the time, when a woman says she's pregnant, a dance of glee was not what she wanted - she wanted to scare you. At least I'm beginning to see patterns here. Mebbe I'm just a boy who can't say no. I'm ALWAYS shooting for LTR - if you have a good thing, why would you want to stop? If it goes downhill, work harder. I don't get HookUp. I don't get dressing for a date to impress - it feels like a lie to me. I don't get dating as a hobby - sounds potentially hurtful to people somehow. It seems there are a lot of lonely women out there - who are lonely for a reason, they can't hold on to a good thing - I need to be careful. Somehow, I really appeal to these. Had a recent relationship where a beautiful, brilliant young woman came to my house with my young son, and ended up overpowering me. I think this is abnormal - I am a homely old fart, pudgy, grumpy - I can't even hide from these women in my own house - and I hide from them all the time. It scares me more than a little - I seem to attract relationships that can't work LT like flies, and I need to be selective. Damn it hurts when what you wanted LT fails after years of work - I'm old, and can't afford it anymore. I want to get down to BidNiz, no more collisions. Are there guys who can relate to this? Are there strategies available? I[ve spoken here with some women, and often they are quite rude - the ones with class and reason seem just out of reach so far. Perhaps I'm just unattractive to women who DO want LTR. Am I cursed? Help! Without date experience, LUCI.

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 135 (view)

When is it too old to still want children? Posted: 3/25/2008 9:08:36 PM
This is a bit of a rant, but I picked up some things in this thread that seem to suggest I should be neutered at my age, and I disagree very strongly. I'm a 48 yr. old single dad - I had custody of my son at the age of 4, he is now a 22 yr. old Navy vet in college, a Physics man, and still the apple of mine eye. I have never regretted a moment of this - he was a strong gleam in my eye long before he was conceived, I know exactly when and where - I meant to. It was the best choice of my life. We have made Men of each other. Somehow, we always seem to love each other more and more each day. The only possible regret is - I didn't have a dozen more. So, now he does an excellent job of caring for himself, but lets me keep house, and since I retired on disability, I've been trying to finagle more children somehow. So far, I have a 2 and 3 yr. old pair of goddaughters, and I sometimes sit them and the house for weeks - then fly 2,500 miles home, and miss them for months. I have severe Baby Envy. Just the fact that they became potty trained while I was away kinda breaks my heart. I'm looking for ideas. My genetics and state of health indicate that I should drop dead (probably a motorcycle accident) by age 120, but 110 seems doable, I've got an excellent family network, and I have heard of insurance - of all types. My son would surely care for his much smaller siblings as he would his own children in my absence - that is just who he is. In short, I can make a thousand good arguments to do it again, and again and again, if I can. In any event, they don't have to be my kids, but I am so rewarded by the children in my life - and I feel I can handle more. As a living thing, I feel it is my job to Pass it On. This is cellular level drive we're talkin' here. You may think I won't be around long, but when I was 20 I realized that death was ALWAYS at your elbow - and kept right on skinnin' my elbow on it - now, that doesn't happen nearly as often, and I feel as if I have more than enough luck to have granchildren by my children yet unborn before I go; in fact, children tend to make me very careful, and I'm sure my life would be extended by new little ones. You have responsibility to your ancestors as well as your children, you know - after all, they gave you everything. I have difficulty relating to people who "choose" not to have children - genetic suicide, that I may pursue a career, or a moderne lifestyle, or whatever - I think THESE people are the selfish ones, it's very clear to me somehow. Am I being selfish? Yes. I get nothin' but good from my kid, and from my pixie goddaughters - a strong reward from mother nature, a big endorphin blast when I'm doing right by them, and they do right by me. Nature does not lie - it is Good. Overpopulation is not the problem - selfishness is the problem; some are so poor, they starve - while some are so rich, they eat themselves to death. If these could but meet in the middle, earth's population capacity would be greatly extended. Women live so long beyond child bearing age only because nature decrees they are still valuable - they are Wise, and can teach - not all that physical; there is something to be learned here - having children when young requires more energy because we waste more energy; we don't quite know how to deal with children yet. But my parents taught me the low-energy method before I started myself - teach them to communicate, to reason, as soon as possible, and then gently argue with them until they wholeheartedly agree. Obedience is not what you're after; do not raise a child to obey, but to question, not to control others, but to control themselves, and encourage them to come to you for answers by giving satisfying answers - dead honest answers. I never, ever had hit my son, yet he has been seemingly perfectly obedient, and has gone out of his to way to please. The best reward is positive attention and thoughtful discussion - which costs nothing, and benefits you, too. He rebelled as a teenager - for three days - and was so penitent, he cleaned the house from top to bottom as a surprise. I must be doing something right. All of us have different conditions and different reasons, none of us are Statistics. I feel I can raise a kid to fend for him or her self on every level by the age of 13, when I see so many adults who just can't do it. It's not how long you're around, but what you teach in the time given - and none of us knows how long that will be, so... Get a move on! luv, LUCI

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 14 (view)

What is Love to you - EXACTLY? Posted: 3/25/2008 4:56:07 PM
You are more concise than I, but every bit as thoughtful. We have talked about individual love, love of mankind, homogeneous vs. heterogeneous societies - children, God has to come in somewhere - but now, I would like to invoke the Ancestors. I am fortunate enough to know both my Mother's and my Father's line in some detail - and apparently in my Father's case, to the beginning of time; my 47th Great Granpapa, best buddy of William the Conqueror and master of all the forests of Britain, sez I'm a direct descendant of Odin via Baldur (The Beautiful) and Ferseti (The Just). Doubtless self-aggrandizing balderdash - but wait. Now it is believed that Odin was quite real, a Germanic Chieftain - so still, it might be possible. What I do know is - I LIKE IT, a very pretty confabulation, if it is one. No man is an island. The most independent aborigine or eskimo may survive in the most extreme conditions indefinitely - but only for hours, without the accumulated knowledge of his forbears. In our high-tech society, we physically isolate ourselves in boxes of our own, see thousands of cars per day without realizing people are in them, and are fed a pablum world through a coaxial straw consisting of 35% direct advertising for false idols and 65% false idols for advertising. We fall into isolation - from others, and ourselves. Some say we are more self-centered, I say we are more isolated from ourselves, and completely uncentered - diffuse - deficit of attention, and starving of introspection. A firm root in my ancestry helps me greatly - and I remember that some first little reproductive unit, pre-dna progenitor - no, the primordial singularity itse-lf - is my ancestor; all this was done for me. No human being is more distantly related to any other than 19th cousin; we need to remember that - that race is illusion, a false taxonomy. We absolutely, positively have a responsibility to our ancestors to pass it on, whatever good things we get, those that don't die in a very real sense - their genetic and memetic line vanishes forever. Have a Love for the Ancestors - or it'll bite ya, by Jove. I belong to an international Men's group, but I fell from activity largely because White Guys were playing Native Americans, and it drives me nuts - if I am not mistaken, Native Americans frown on it pretty strongly, too - I tried to counter it, protest that I knew where I came from - but I get the idea that some of these guys hate their own ancestors in some powerful sense, see only the negatives of American society, and while they are beating somebody else's tomtom - they are wasting time, not really contributing to society. A lot of it was good, but this is sick, ritualized self-hatred, and I don't think they can REALLY heal until they stop and get a grip on their OWN ancestors. Ideas work like bloodlines, but breed much more prolifically than the meat we are. That is a good place to put a frustrated biological reproductive urge - teaching and storytelling. Geez - I guess I just love the Universe - it HAS been very, very good to me, y'know. HEY SURPRISE, some sweet young lady here wants to drag me to Claim Jumper's and buy me dinner, and I got to go - but like I was sayin', - very, VERY good to me! Hope to banter with you soon - golly, I need to read your profile too - TATA, LUCI

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 12 (view)

What is Love to you - EXACTLY? Posted: 3/25/2008 2:36:51 PM
Wonderful! GOOD stuff! You have addressed Social Love here, instead of individual love, and really extended the topic. Tolerance is not acceptance - I may tolerate those I really need to see change, but I can only do so much of that. I work on them, but it's not working so good - what should I do? Love harder and smarter, I guess. I think that the Leadership by Example thing needs more consistent application - but some groups really take a big, bad, negative advantage from this. The KKK gets to publicly rave on Jews and s due to free speech - but must be watched closely. The government does that some, but average citizens mass in the streets to oppose their demonstrations, and tend to outnumber them greatly, and this provides the public proof that they are in the vast minority - ironic; they are the true minority - and this is a good, good message. I think we may even need them - to remind us of our own crap. I oppose, but I won't give hate back - emotional Aikido. Make an example. I tolerate Muslims, for instance - but not their treatment of women. I don't protest against it, except perhaps to everyone in earshot, but I think I might jump at the opportunity to join such a public protest. On the other hand, I feel this idea of suppressing women can't possibly compete with the West - they throw away half their human productivity (at least!), and I say it cannot stand in opposition to a fair, sexually egalitarian society for a moment. I didn't come to feminism via modern mores, but old fashioned ones - in my childhood household, according to my father, Momma was "the source of all good things", every material possession was Momma's, to do with as she would - because she always did right. Women - Momma, Grandma, Sister - were a necessary inspiration whereby men did great things - a creativity competition. Momma never had to punish - disrespect Momma, and Dad came down like a ton of bricks on ya - and rightly so. He never got as angry when he, himself was treated poorly - and this was his example of Patience. Good Cop - Bad Cop, Captain / XO works, that's why it's so common - it maintains order, and from there we can really create good things. I lived in Oklahoma for awhile, and although the Raging Crackers drove me near insane, I became a little familiar with Cherokee culture, a gynocracy where men own nothing; for instance, the tribal council comes to a decision - and then the Matriarch approves or vetoes, if vetoed, council starts over - again and again - until Grandma can approve. Race relations in Oklahoma are more than a little behind the times. Sometimes a Rager would go on before a group of polite black folks, and I would lean over and whisper - "I'm from up North, and I was wondering - why do you put up with all these Crackers?" At first they would laugh real hard, and then - dead somber. Yeah - think about that. For no mysterious reason, I tend to really like the Cherokees I meet - laid back, not at all possessive - until you mess with Mama; then - you've had it, bub. So now we have gone from Individual Union to Social Union, where we find our unique strengths and support each other in them, while putting each others faults in check, and get something much more powerful than the mere sum of its parts. HEHE, I started a thread, and it's working for me! MORE, I say! Luv, LUCI

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 10 (view)

What is Love to you - EXACTLY? Posted: 3/25/2008 11:52:57 AM
I'm getting lovely responses here, and I don't mean to criticize harshly, but I know I sound that way sometimes, and I apologize if I did. NAWW - I did sound harsh, no mebbes, and I'll try to straighten up. My mouse died, and I'm having trouble here, but what I'm saying is - when I pay attention to a thing, analyze it, I have a better chance of fixing it when broken or malfunctioning. I have paid more attention to my Love as a machine , that gets me what I want and helps me see and examine what I want, and I find - if I set the Machine up properly, I need pay little attention not just to my machine itself, but also care little for what I want, and suddenly - I get more than I ever thought possible. We are the Machine. We go over our past mistakes, we observe ourselves dispassionately and critically, and think what we might try to correct ourselves when we fail, get right back in there fearlessly and test our latest hypothesis, evaluate our results, and repeat the cycle. If that isn't applied science, I don't know what is. My results? Ego is like a lubricant (we want something for ourselves) that gets us and keeps us going, and we need the tiniest bit (just enough to care for ourselves, stay healthy); when the machine is running fast and hot though, the lube not only fails, it gums things up. I try to slow down, and change the oil - but I need to clean out the goo first, nasty Ego residues and ulterior motives, from time to time. And I also find that seeking to be loved is a mistake, and can even make you dangerous - but seeking to love does the job perfectly. Aikido, for instance, is a science of applied Love - we make a sacrifice to the opponent of our Ego, and seek the safety of our own attacker, but - we have no attacks, we forgo the initiation of any violence. Conflict resolution skills like these are tools for the general furtherance of Love. I see religious types who create an imaginary friend to love them (not all, mind you, but many) - forgive them for whatever, spoil them like a failed parent - and then keep committing the same mistakes; when they screw up, they then need an imaginary enemy - a Satan - to blame it on. What this tends to yield are all the poison fruits of a complete lack of personal responsibility - like, evident schizophrenia - they split personalities between a Jesu and a Satan. The rate of Born-Again's in prison is quite telling - about 1.5 times per capita as all other Christian sects (I know it's hard to call it "sect", but it's awfully poular amongst habitual criminals, as you might expect.) I really understand what's being said about (what we often call, but it is a slander) Materialism, false attachment to objects - but undue attachment to an abstraction, a bad i.e. UNTRUE idea, is often just as bad - and sometimes worse. I am a Physicalist (a very hep Materialist), but I am Minimalist at the same time - I dislike Extra Stuff, beyond what I need to stay alive and healthy - and perform love. My fruits are abstract, and I must found them all in OBJECT truth - a Physics - and I find that it works. I accept that I am a machine - but what astounding machines we are, more and more amazing as we look deeper and deeper. When I look into my Lover, I see a vista as broad as the milky way from an airless mountaintop - I have seen both, and felt the same intensely "religious" rattling in the parietal lobe - and with both, nature has made us to seek this feeling, I'm sure - now, I can see myself from the same perspective - and Love ME. It is Good! Science often leads to something that appears quite mystic - but this is applicable mysticism, a model that we can apply and expect to work - it's worked for me like gangbusters HAHA! Try some, kids. And rather than criticize, let me laud some deep insights here - BRAVO! Don't pitch yer tents yet! We can still get along - were gettin GOOD stuff here! Luvvies, LUCI.

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 7 (view)

What is Love to you - EXACTLY? Posted: 3/24/2008 5:02:58 AM
I like the idea that love is a decision, a rational choice. I measure my love - I attend to myself in a minimal way, ensuring that I will have health and strength - and time - to love in a steady, reliable, sustainable manner, and further choose methods that ensure my efforts are most effective. I love enough to plan for it. Infatuation is very dangerous, as you may know - often a case of projection, we falsely idolize someone, we get too excited, and screw up; we encounter their imperfections, and are shocked and disappointed - and it is entirely our own fault. I still FEEL infatuations, I just restrain myself better - but I do love that feeling, and it lasts longer when I behave sanely. But you are dead right about that - I choose to love, and to learn, and to love better n' better, as long as I live. Doing the math helps. Just a note - I determined to love selflessly, without desire for reward, and - it works like gangbusters, buddy. Turns out it's the most selfish sort of love - you are just bound to be loved back, my whole world changed. I think one of the world's great problems is that we seek to be loved FIRST - doesn't work - big mistake. That's why they flock to Jesu - no one loves me, so I will invent an imaginary friend to do that. Oh, and someone said above "there is rhyme AND reason in the world." WEEELL - rhyme has a definite mathematical structure, and prose may be dissected analytically - it's called Comparative Literature. Check Poe's notes on writing "the Raven", and you'll see what I mean; he didn't write it randomly, he constructed it, brick by brick, in multiple abstract layers - and this is precisely why it is so effective.

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 6 (view)

What is Love to you - EXACTLY? Posted: 3/24/2008 4:30:23 AM
I'm not sure how this post addresses the question "what is love", but - yes, it is easier to die when we want to anyway - of course. But when I sacrifice my life for another or others and truly love my life, it is a greater love than above - lesser and greater again, quantification. It's unavoidable. Altruism is a scientific term in relation to animal behavior - and it is measured quantitatively. We are animals - it is harder with us, our behavior is more complex - but psychologists measure our altruistic behavior when they quantify antisocial or sociopathic responses. As for the three examples you give - no. I cannot relate. I look back and say "oops - miscommunication", but - I know exactly what I was thinking, and NOT exactly what SHE was thinking - although it may dawn on me too late. Then, I think of what I learned from that, and keep it on file.

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 5 (view)

What is Love to you - EXACTLY? Posted: 3/24/2008 4:19:13 AM
But wait - I just quantified it - I love my cat, but I love my son more; lesser / greater is quantification - period. It's very difficult to quantify to a high degree of precision, but less difficult when done to a lesser degree of precision. We become confused between ACTS of love and the FEELING of love in our use of language, and love feelings are difficult to quantify - yet, we do; we know when we love more, we know when we love less. ACTS of love are perfectly quantifiable - I give a percentage of my pension to Salvation Army (one of the more effective charities) and by golly, I can track it precisely - and it is an ACT of love. Again - I would give my son the money instead if he really needed it; thus, I love him more than those helped by the SA. It requires a little thought, but it is an important topic - don't shoot from the hip, read the whole post - for starters.

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 1 (view)

What is Love to you - EXACTLY? Posted: 3/22/2008 6:22:22 AM
My son came in from Biology class, and told me (challenged me) with this - in beginning the lecture, the professor made the statement that - Love is not quantifiable. Phooey, I say. I love essential core questions, analysis, thesis - and synthesis is what it's all about! Now I'm a Physicalist, and there is no room in my big, big little world for the UnQuantifiable. It may be difficult in detail, but here is my simple answer to me Boyo - "Love is altruism - taking on personal risk for the benefit of another or others. The Feeling of Love is but the motivator to the Acts of Love, a necessary artifact of our evolution without which we have no hope of survival as a species - we are social animals, period, and have Love for others generally, not just our offspring or our mates - we leap to the aid of a stranger in danger without hesitation and at considerable personal risk, when no one else is watching - it is our nature, it is good." "Now - I will take risks for the Cat. I tend the Cat, I get medical help for it when it needs it, and this is sometimes very expensive. When the Cat gets too old or sick, I will pay big bucks to treat the Cat or ensure that the Cat is put down most humanely. I knew this BEFORE I got the Cat, and knew its specific personality; but I love animals, and they have always loved me back, so it seemed a good risk, and still does." "On the other hand - if I thought you would go hungry otherwise, I would tearfully strangle the Cat, cook it best I could, and serve it to you; thus, I love you considerably more than the Cat - and we have lesser and greater, the beginning core of quantification." Getting to Love Units is admittedly a bear, but you get my drift, I hope. Let me phrase these things as I advise my Son - There are properties to love - we have the feeling, it feels good. We commit acts of love thus motivated, and see them successful, we feel better; if they fail, we suffer - and seek other means, or some other love object - that's OK, we want to love effectively. We want our risks to have greatest possible reward. If we fail, we may learn, and be more successful in future. If we fail to act on love, we suffer too - but our suffering is our own, the risk we took. To play our frustration out upon the object of our "love" is a form of hatred borne of perfect selfishness - what we thought was love is nothing more than that desire for effectiveness combined with an unhealthy fixation, obsession, on a single object. What we are seeking is recognition and validation as reports of our effectiveness. We may refuse to accept the risk by taking the hit, and demand satisfaction for our unsolicited efforts upon our hapless "love" object - and it is foolishness, it can never succeed, it is more wasted effort and suffering for us - and the object of love, too. It is very difficult to love the indifferent, but many do, and it is a very high and abstract form of love - if you can manage it, my hat is off to you - you are a master. But if you can love someone with something approaching equanimity, and from this build a home populated with offspring, genetic and/or memetic, and hold that together until you die - and even beyond, with planning - then you are O'sensei, and I bow before it. You have essentially gained everything worth having, and got paid in the process - and everybody got some! No losers, creation without destruction - good job. And THAT is the power of love - it makes the human race and all its works possible, it is the key motivation - the only real motivation other than self-preservation; and the only good motivation to preserve the self is to live that you may love. The only reason I am so logical and scientific is that - I do love it so. I would give my life for Higg's Boson if it were the only way to find it, I'm quite sure. Many do for such things - it's Love, I'm tellin' ya. _______________________________ So, I'm looking for some thoughts from you folks on the nature of this Beast. Am I mad? Heavens yes. Aren't you? Luv, LUCI.

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 90 (view)

Are you your Car? Posted: 3/22/2008 4:37:40 AM
Hey - I WAS my car, and now I'm not. Had a string of z-cars, nothing newer than '76. Small, yet perfectly balanced monocoque design. One of the truly great car designs, so feminine. Tougher than nails. Two seats - just me and my Gal. Ridiculously simple, straight six, no fancy nowhere - just the surefooted old steed, gracefully pulling clean from a pancake spin - built from parts, a little rusty and scarred, but oh so reliable, so - egalitarian. My only child liked to wrap 'em around poles, so - no more cars at all. I'm retired, live with the best public trans I could ever imagine, and I had to prove to him that cars are really unnecessary, so - I walk more, it's good for me. But mebbe - just mebbe - I'm going to get a nice scooter, like the Buell Xb12X Ulysses - I never share a scooter, I'd never borrow one, I'd feel totally responsible if someone got hurt on it, and I'd have SUCH fun - and an excuse to keep him off it. Is there anyone who SHARES their Iron Horse - now, really? Luv, LUCI

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 52 (view)

legalized prostitution Posted: 3/22/2008 4:10:36 AM
Cool Thread! DECRIMINALIZE it, because... It's hers to sell, it's his to pay, it's a straight-up natural contract - too damn simple to stop. All the ills associated with prostitution are actually cured - to a large degree, if not completely - by DECRIMINALIZING it. Tax it - regulate it. It happens, always has, always will. The fear behind banning it is the threat to the family - men find prositutes less complicated, easier than building and supporting families; but hey - these guys SHOULD be removed from the gene pool. Bully! Isn't a likely fear, anyway. But the fear of venereal disease and crime SHOULD be reduced - unless your religiously and/or morally perverse. It would keep disease under control, protect the girls from the pimps and johns, the johns from the girls and pimps, and the pimps - who cares. They'd be gone. But, like legalizing marijuana, the cash value of these things is vastly reduced by decriminalization, and as criminal enterprises go, these are deeply politically connected - don't expect organized crime to go away, so - don't hold your breath for decriminalization of THESE. For me to have sex with a prostitute... I'd have to love her very, very much. For me to pay $385 a quarter for Pot - I'd have to forget all my gardening skills. Neither one of these is gonna happen, either. OOH - if you really want legal sex with a prostitute - bring a camera, and the illicit sex becomes private Adult Entertainment, with First Amendment protections - HA! Luv, LUCI.

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 101 (view)

When is it OK to cheat? Posted: 3/22/2008 3:23:58 AM
OK, I've read some very healthy responses here, and jokes, and things I hope were jokes, and sad stories. Didn't read the whole thread, I was just so shocked by the question. I hope this is new - Cheating is lying - and lies are a form of fear, fear of loss of control of a desired outcome. You lie to those you feel have the power to affect that outcome. To lie is to admit to fear to all that hear - and you are listening, too - but to admit to fear is not to lie, don't get confused. Start by admitting it to yourself, quietly. If you can't figure that out, and lie incessantly, you live in fear, and know not why. To hell with that noise - I won't do it, and it breaks my little heart to see people who will. Let go of these outcomes that require a lie - you'll live longer, and better, too. I learned to do it - and the outcomes actually became better than I had dared imagine. It's only fair to cheat on someone when you have told them exactly what you intend to do - which, of course, defies the definition of cheating. And another thing - cheating exposes people to risks, like VD - no, you DON'T know what you're doing there, I don't care if you're the Surgeon General. One of those people is You. Anyone who has sex with you and knows you are cheating is a sick puppy - why do you want that? Anyone who has sex with you and DOESN'T know you're cheating is a dupe - and you're a damned rapist. I think one might do it because they crave attention, constant validation. The only way to get that is by doing things that you, yourself, consider valid and valuable - and lying is not that thing. It'll getcha, by Gum. Cheating is clearly a manifestation of larger issues. If you think of cheating, you are - until you put it down, or tell your current partner. If your relationship is that broken, surprise - talking about it might just help fix it. If your partner hurts - is sick, and can't have sex - try to rely on intimate touch more. Orgasm you can do yourself, and there is no need for penetration really. Be creative. Test yourself - you may pass, and that feels very, very good. If you cheat on someone, you do not love them; if you cheat with someone, you do not love them. If you settle for sex without love, you do not love yourself. Love without sex is rather easily done - but sex without Love? You poor **stard! You would NEVER settle for that if you'd ever had both at the same time - therefore, you have not - and THIS is what you NEED FIRST! It's not the difference between Night and Day - it's the difference between Dead and Alive, man! Don't seek it - give it! It will come! I had a young wife that went mad, and couldn't even touch me. I still supported her completely for another five years until SHE left - it was hell, she even tried to poison me once - I'm not bragging, but - it was not really her fault, totally insane, so - I stuck to her like glue, and I'm glad I did. In sickness and in health, that was my CONTRACT. I never expected her poor MIND to go, that she would become some other person, but - I learned much, it was darn well worth it. Don't mean to sound preachy, this is my truth - not the voice of Righteousness, but the voice of experience. It may not suit everyone, but - There is no substitute for Experience. Sometimes we need to be delicate and diplomatic, yesyes - but lying injures YOU most. Grannie told me - she knows everything, and she never told me no LIES. Luv, LUCI.

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 23 (view)

what does being a father mean to you Posted: 2/11/2008 7:20:22 PM
I just had to pipe in here - At 48, I'm the father of one 22yr. old son. I raised him alone from the age of 4, home schooled him, and now that he is home safe from Iraq (Sailor, Son of many Sailors), he's working his way towards an astrophysics degree at Stanford. I planned him carefully, I would have had more had my wife not gone mad - so many women wanted me to abandon him somehow for their own cult of personality, but - fergeddaboudit, this is my progeny. I have always said that my deepest regret regarding him is that - I didn't have a dozen more. We live together, and I do spoil him some, but what I learned from the Navy was this - I cannot be ruled, coerced, enslaved, bullied, or forced - I am the soul of rebellion; HOWEVER, show me a man with a good cause, and I will follow most enthusiastically. Never spanked him, never thought to - and truly, I can't remember a single instance where he cried, not even as an infant. I taught him to think his way through life, and I am very proud. He is my Ubermenschen. He made a man of me. Among men, I trust fathers more than the rest - if for no other reason than their patience and tenacity. There are other sorts of children - not only those of gene, but also those of meme. He's firm on his feet now, I would like more - even stepchildren, even troubled or "disabled" children who may be bettered by exercise of gentle yet relentless LEADERSHIP - NOT Dictatorship. So hey, ladies - if you don't set the furtherance of your children above your own needs or mine, I think you are dreadfully deluded. Luv, LUCI.

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 223 (view)

The Historical Jesus Posted: 12/28/2007 8:21:16 AM
Froggy, I think I love you. I keep bumping into you as The Only Lucid Post in the Thread. In accordance with the Thread - The only Historial evidence of Jesus is strong evidence that He is, in fact, Dionysus. The first Gospel was written at LEAST 40 yrs. after His supposed Cruci"fiction" (more likely - 90 yrs. later.) If we take this as the minimum, it means all the apostles wrote their Gospels when they were in their 60's or better; this means all of them together - and they were esthetes now, didn't live big - had a tremendous life expectancy, when nearby Rome had a life expectancy of 21 yrs. Did they live better than Romans? NONONO. And the last bit - Revelations - is written by the eldest - who just happens to be quite an alcoholic (these generally don't live so long.) It is clearly written in two fugues - the First is Drunkeness, and the Sencond is - Delerium Tremens. The realization he didn't exist is the Truth, which NEVER hurts - unless you are a LIAR.

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 53 (view)

God and Disease Posted: 12/28/2007 6:25:07 AM
I'm a Strong Atheist, and there's nothing to "rationalize". God is not at "fault". Spend time trying to understand "why" God thinks and acts as He does, you may go Mad - He appears Random. He is - 'cause, He ain't. But instead of becoming Mad, you might end up Atheist, from which vantage point it all makes perfect sense. Yup - Random. Statistics, Stoichiometry make perfect, perfect sense of that. I've faced death several times, at the barrel of a gun, at the end of a rope, at the bottom of the sea, and more - and remained calm. Since I yet live, I suggest that this is the adaptive response. It worked for me. Don't waste time trying to figger why God would do this or that - spend all your time figgurin' how to Fix It. And I have absolutely no fear of death per se - there is no point to it. I fear leaving Jobs Undone, that's all. And the Meaning of Life is - Creativity. Beat it if you can, Poor Bible-Biters!

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 14 (view)

Can Animals Think? Posted: 12/28/2007 6:04:03 AM
That bundle of cells are connected to the Head as well Not sure what you meant here, but the bundle of cells was connected to all the other cells, and vice-versa. The organism is an integrated whole. Without toes, I would appear just as Smart - until a Tiger came along, and I couldn't Run Like I Used To. It's all in the definition of Think. If you break it down, everything that Lives, Thinks. They don't have to ponder the Meaning of Life - apparently, they know what it is - they Live. People who ponder the Meaning of Life sometimes kill themselves - rather maladaptive. People who never ponder it, never kill themselves. Animal's don't do that because they can't - they can't afford to. T'aint Useful.

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 11 (view)

Can Animals Think? Posted: 12/24/2007 9:32:06 PM
I'm a little confused by this thread, because - no one seems to examine what "Thinking" or "Intelligence" are! "Think" of a Turing Machine - one that, er, doesn't quite work. If we approach the machine and begin to query it, it responds "as if" intelligent, for some time, and then - we reach it's limit, and it fails to respond appropriately to a query. Most would say "Ah! it's not intelligent - it's a machine." But - in relation to the previous queries - it was intelligent. Beyond it's limit, not. I might decide it was intelligent within certain limits, and restrict my inquiries to these, and profit by getting reliable answers quickly - but how reliably, exactly? If I query Albert Einstein, he appears intelligent; if I query him when he's stone drunk, not as much so; if I query him while asleep - he's as dumb as a rock. Finally, if I ask him how to fix my car, he's dumb as a stump - only marginally better than a rock, I can sit on him comfortably, for instance, and rocks do not puke while sleeping, either. But, if I query him when he's alert, and I'M stone drunk - again, he doesn't seem quite as smart. "Intelligence" is in relation to a given environment. Query is only one type of environment, if we consider it as say, verbal query - but why should we? Are we not queried by events in our environment in general?And Thinking is a process I presume underlies apparent acts of intelligence, because I know it underlies mine - sitting here in my Cartesian Theatre. I have noted an Environment of Query. Animals are queried by environment; changes in the environment present new threats and opportunities. Appropriate responses are rewarded - the reward is the index of appropriateness of the response, appropriate if it leads to Differential Reproductive Success. The more appropriate (rewarding) the response, the more intelligent - the more surviveable. Intelligence also allows the construction of responses to previously unencountered specific situations. This is because we encounter the situation, perceive it, manipulate the mental model of it, and compare its aspects to aspects of previously recorded experiences - we seek some commonality between experiences. When commonality is shared, we may conclude that previous successful solutions to the similar previous query will probably work in the current situation, more likely than not - and try the stored response first - if it doesn't work, there may be specific conditions in this case that were not in the previous cases - and although I may now look for a new variable in this case, it may be that the specific difference of the OLD cases is at fault - and these are long gone, and I can no longer examine them. I could go on forever - Noam Chompsky ALMOST does, but it makes much sense. The only reason anyone would say "animals don't think" is internal bias. That bias is the idea that I am special (generally, I don't think you are, but for the sake of society's many benefits, I will concede the point - for now) OH yes, the Self - another philosophical Can of Worms. Bacterium Think, because they display Intelligence. When I heat on side of the Petri dish, they swim - but oh, not just in any direction, nono - Away from the Heat. Some a less bright than others - the ones that swim less directly away from the heat, or even the some very few that swim into it. They probably didn't evolve to swim into it, they got Broken somewhere along the line; but by golly, the ones that swim perfectly, directly away in minimum time with minimum expended energy seem commendable to me. I give them all A+. This affects the Grading Curve, of course. There is much more "complex" intelligence out there, but - at what "point" does a thing go from Simple to Complex? None. "Intelligence" is a relational continuum. Intelligence is an Action. Thinking is an internal process. A single action may "appear" intelligent when, in fact, the act was relatively random - little "thinking" was involved - and it just happens to "work", thus appears Intelligent. Seeing an apparently Intelligent act, I presume that it was preceded by correct thinking, but - I just might be wrong. Bacterium are Functionally Intelligent - Therefore, they must Think. The have a "brain" - information is processed, an appropriate response is selected, and then enacted. They do it again and again. It must be there, it must be so - but if you look for what you Think a brain should look like, you probably won't find one. I see a Pianist who plays Rachmaninoff most subtly, most expressively - while simultaneously reading aloud the morning paper which he's never seen before, and his vocal intonation reflects a perfect understanding of the text no worse than if he wasn't playing the piano. Turn out - the Paper is read in the Head. The Piano is played - by a bundle of cells in his spine, right between the shoulderblades. This is an excellent clue. Intelligence Per Se does not exist. It is a False Reification. ______________ Luv. LUCI

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 42 (view)

God and Disease Posted: 12/22/2007 9:20:13 AM
I would just like to make a point on God and Disease you may find elucidating, or amusing, or chilling, depending on how fluffy you are. Do not get the idea here that I have no compassion for your plight, au contraire. But I was only able to recover myself once I took personal responsibility, and stopped trying to assign blame where there was none to apply - it is simply numerical chance and our own ignorance, NOTHING more. Find the goal - health - and build a straight path to it. There are literally hundreds of pathogen-bourne fatal diseases, many of which are fatal within hours. If this be the case, then surely if these diseases were present - created in the beginning, by the creator - and the first small human family proposed in a Bible would have had them all (each requires a host to survive and propagate.) Obviously, each would have to have had them - and would have died immediately. The only alternative is that the disease were created later, as needed - but of course, the need eludes me, and violates the Bible's dictum, of course. That this method should be used to damn a few initially, and then spread randomly among the many, is a horrible accusation against a Christian God as a criminal - and as an Inept, as well. Doctors cure by application of science, which requires great labor, which requires money. It must come from somewhere, or - no one gets healed. When Peter Popov begins healing paraplegics and amputees, maybe I'll pay more attention - until then, I consider him a Cannibal, who eats the ignorant one bite at a time. Don't go that direction. The vast majority of human illness is not caused by pathogens - it is malnutrition and poor diet practices. Apply proper nutrition, and illness in our modern society would be a rarity indeed. I have faced death several times, and each time it's much easier - by Jove, I think I have this down. Sometimes I have run straight at it, swingin' away, and this was actually key to my preservation. To fight effectively, one must learn to fight "as if already dead." Fear of Death is an illusion; fear of pain is another matter - but with practice, one may find complete control of one's own pain, as well. Oblivion is a perfect solution. Afterlife is an unworkable, impossible conundrum. Live for today, because you can't do otherwise - you just have the crazy idea that you can, and it won't seem to go away - ah, but it does, it does.

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 3856 (view)

Creation vs Evolution Posted: 12/16/2007 9:48:50 PM
I will respond to the question, Why it Matters what You Believe. I propose that all thinking beings pursue the Good. Adolf Hitler, Mao Tse Dung, Joseph Stalin, Paul Pot, all deeply believed they were correct - and this was greatly reinforced in them by those who also believed they were correct, in vast numbers, motivated by their Logic; and these Tyrants had most excellent facility of Logic by and large. To achieve their Power, they could be no fools. But the premises were False. If our Logic is perfect, but our Premises False, then our conclusion is False. If we act upon our conclusion, then our action is False - or, more commonly, EVIL. The motivation, a False belief, is the Root of Evil. All such things are Evil, it is only a matter of degree based upon effect; but if there is no action, only thought, this thought displaces Truth - and this is the Essence of Evil, the displacement, or denial, of Truth. I do not fear your thought, I merely fear all your action - which must perforce be motivated by your thoughts. Therefore I only fear you if you act - but frankly, I don't see how you can avoid action and live long, and I further believe you will continue to strive to live, based upon continuous previous performance.

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 3855 (view)

Creation vs Evolution [read OP before posting] * Posted: 12/16/2007 5:13:35 PM
You seem to miss in all this the basic points - Your basic assertion is that "Complex things require more Complex Creators." However, if this Rule be true, we must then conclude that each Complex Creator requires a More Complex Creator - Ad Infinitum. Thus the premise is not merely implausible, it is False, Reductio Ad Absurdum. A further fault is to assert that if Darwinism is False, Creationism must be True. This is a ruse - there are an infinite number of remaining possibilities, and one is that We Just Don't Know - and no, I have not stopped beating my Wife. The argument is 1.) a False Dilemma, 2.) Argument from Ignorance, and 3.) Argument from Lack of Imagination. Learn a little Classical Logic before you explain the Universe for me - please. You may be stunned at how simple life becomes. Mr. Irving M. Copi wrote very accessible source texts - and I ate them all in 10th grade. Surely you may, too. - But the above does not place you in a position to argue much in the way of Molecular Genetics expertise.`Cut that out.

promethium741

Joined: 12/13/2007

Msg: 3854 (view)

Creation vs Evolution Posted: 12/16/2007 4:49:10 PM
I would like to add some general points: If the Bible asserts Creation and we believe in the validity of Creationism on that basis alone, we must also believe whatever else the Bible asserts, on the same basis, or we are completely inconsistent. The Bible clearly asserts, repeatedly, that the Sun and all the planets, and the Heavens themselves, revolve around the earth. Therefore, Creationists reject Copernicanism. Hopefully even the minimally educated among us know what happened there. There are many other examples - thousands - of course. We know that Rooster Eggs exist, and if properly handled, produce the****trice, a serpent that kills with a glance. Creationism bases it's claim in the Book of Genesis - but which one, Genesis I or II? They are in severe conflict - in G. I, the animals are created, and then man and woman are created simultaneously; in G. II, man is before woman, and the animals are created only when God calls out Adam to name them - and so much more. There is no Science that determines the desired Conclusion, and collects evidence to fit; therefore there is no Creation Science. The term "science" is only used to falsely legitimize Creationism. This is a clear case of Intentional Theft. Furthermore, if you are Catholic (the Majority), you should know by now that the Pope declared Evolutionary Theory valid in the 1950's - so stop running around telling folks you're Catholic and Creationist, or I will nominate you for Excommunication. And I will not debate with a Cheater. The only purpose of debate is pursuit of Truth - it is not the assertion of your Ego. An Dats da Trut.

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