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Thread: Altrusim vs. Individualism

Joined: 12/30/2007

Msg: 6 (view)

Altrusim vs. Individualism Posted: 7/25/2009 8:54:00 PM
I agree with Frog Eyes. Humans have always been competitive, and there have always been those with the most, and those with the least. This is the way natural selection works, after all. Those with the most have always, and will always, continue to be superior to those with the least. Again, nature at work. There is no reason to assume that this will change. For an alturistic pattern to emerge in society, you must convince each and every single member to be altruistic. Otherwise, the many will support the few in a "feel good" dictatorship. The only way to prevent those who have more ability, talent, drive, ambition, etc from rising as high as they can, taking the reigns of the system as they do so, requires us to remove all incentive to perform. As long as there remains a position of power, a position of leadership, you can never have a completely altruistic society. Like No Child Left Behind. Slow the advanced kids to the level of the slow ones. Obviously, humans are not hardwired for this. We only work as a community when things are hunky dorey. When hard times fall, it has usually becomes "every man for himself" rather quickly. To the scientific anaylsis of the rules of nature: Even symbiotic organisms compete with one another. Our cells all work together, trillions of them performing their sole function, and yet the combined effort is a living animal, which does compete and kill for survival. Lichen must have a patch of space to grow, and if another lichen is after that patch, competition must occur, even between symbiotic organisms. Symbiosis is like nature's version of a corporation.

Joined: 12/30/2007

Msg: 1 (view)

Altrusim vs. Individualism Posted: 7/25/2009 6:49:02 PM
Let me lay down the basic definitions first: Altrusim: The individual has a moral obligation to help, save, or benefit others or a larger collection of people (community, state, church, family, etc) Individualism: The individual has a moral obligation to remain independent, self reliant, not defined by a group of which they are a member. So, here's the question: Given the basics of human evolution, which paradigm is the best when viewing the world and situations? We some from a system which immediately selects against altruism. Nature is ruled by the law of the jungle, kill or be killed, the ultimate in individualism. Only the genes of the fit are to be passed on, the weak perish. Any creature willing to sacrifice itself for the "common good" of the species doesn't pass on their genes, while creatures that look out specifically for themselves (and possibly their offspring) do. But humans have developed a more complicated social system than any other animal. It's possible to theorize that we wouldn't occupy the top of the food chain i it hadn't been for our communal actions. Hunting, early agriculture, tribal survival, these are all instances where altruism played an important role in human evolution and development. Which is more important to human beings today? Should we remain focused on the individual or the collective? Personally, I'm a Libertarian Objectivist, so you know what I think. Me and mine, the rest of you can take a hike.

Joined: 12/30/2007

Msg: 5 (view)

not photons but light Posted: 7/25/2009 6:37:51 PM
Of course the mirror reflects light. That's a physical property that exists independent of human observation. The falling tree also makes a sound. Simple physics. And to the best of my knowledge, light is created when any matter is energized to an appropriate level.

Joined: 12/30/2007

Msg: 9 (view)

Children Learn what they live Posted: 7/25/2009 6:20:39 PM
I didn't feel anything when I read it. But it makes sense. The amount of a priori knowledge humans have is scant. Most of our behavioral patterns are picked up like everything else we learn: From watching our parents. Thus the old saw about a boy marries his momma, a girl marries her daddy. And it goes beyond the few character traits listed here. They learn to talk like you, eat like you, listen to similar music (if updated for the time), etc.

Joined: 12/30/2007

Msg: 3 (view)

I love the way my child.. Posted: 7/25/2009 6:13:25 PM
I love the way my child says "Good night, Daddy. Sleep tight and don't let the bed bugs bite!" when I tuck her in at night.

Joined: 12/30/2007

Msg: 93 (view)

At what age is it creepy if a man is sleeping with his daughter? Posted: 7/12/2009 2:39:10 PM
Take ye olde chill pill. It wasn't that long ago that multiple generations of people all lived together, often sharing one sleeping room (the one with the fireplace). You don't think the kids heard/noticed what went on between adults sleeping just a few feet away? Our society has been distorted by the mass media push for the nuclear family with a big house, 2 cars, etc. It does wonders to sell washers, dryers, big screen TVs, and furniture, but it isn't necessarily healthy for human development as it flies in the face of thousands of years' worth of human evolution. Historically, sleeping in the same room as the parents, in the same bed, etc, has not harmed people. It was a requirement because of the low standard of living. This whole thread is about dreamed up societal problems, and buying into the propaganda that the media pushes. A child sleeping in the same bed as the parent is a non-issue, in my book. Worked for thousands of years with no adverse effects.

Joined: 12/30/2007

Msg: 135 (view)

Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father Posted: 7/12/2009 2:29:38 PM
My ex plays these kinds of games. Every time the kid goes to her house for visitation, she gets a steady stream of hate daddy speech. I do my best to assure her that I don't hate her mother, and that she shouldn't either. I also do my best to make sure that she knows that I support contact with her mother, even though what she is told angers me to no end. In the end, the only way I'm going to be happy is if the kid grows up to be happy. And the only way the kid is going to grow up to be happy is if she's encouraged to get to know both parents, and make her own choice.

Joined: 12/30/2007

Msg: 38 (view)

Is Democracy the best form of government? Posted: 7/4/2009 7:49:12 AM
No, Democracy has never worked. They go through a specific life cycle, known for thousands of years. Plato first alluded to it in "The Republic". It was further set in stone by Alexander Fraiser Tytler in the 1700s: "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that time on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the results that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith from spiritual faith to great courage from courage to liberty from liberty to abundance from abundance to selfishness from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy from apathy to dependency from dependency back to bondage. " -- Alexander Fraser Tytler (1742-1813)

Joined: 12/30/2007

Msg: 13 (view)

From a guy with custody of his kid Posted: 6/27/2009 4:55:32 PM
funkymonkee said: "Someone saying they put their kids first means next to nothing in reality. It proves nothing , it demonstrates little." I have had women get upset with me, and I mean really upset, because of my kid. I had a date planned with this girl I knew, and the day of the date, my kid got sick. I called her up to tell her what was up, and that I would have to cancel the date. She flipped out, and told me that I was just saying that because I didn't want to go out with her, and that I wasn't being fair to "her needs". And that was the end of that. So I still feel it is necessary to set the ground rules from the word go.

Joined: 12/30/2007

Msg: 9 (view)

From a guy with custody of his kid Posted: 6/27/2009 2:09:01 PM
Thank you for the replies ladies! It's much appreciated.

Joined: 12/30/2007

Msg: 54 (view)

can i win custody of my wee girls as a dad Posted: 6/27/2009 1:58:54 PM
If she's got custody already, you're going to have a long fight to win. Figure it will cost you about $25,000 in legal fees, but as a single father, my advice is this: Don't let it stop you! Your children are the most important things in the world. They're worth every penny. I just got lucky that momma didn't want our little girl, but I'd have fought to the bitter end if she had tried to take my daughter from me!

Joined: 12/30/2007

Msg: 4 (view)

From a guy with custody of his kid Posted: 6/27/2009 1:04:40 PM
Thank you Chill for your support. It makes me feel better. I totally agree that my child needs me, where as a woman should not. I am looking for a woman who wants me, not one who needs me. The feelings of want are what makes a person willing to work towards a goal (which is what a relationship is all about: teamwork), where as the feeling of need often makes a person angry over time. Everyone wants to be independent and in control of their own life, they don't want to feel beholden to anyone. It just generates resentment. Besides, my daughter is a very loving child. If no other woman on Earth wants to be seen with me, I don't care, because I already have the love of a beautiful girl. But you still, over time and with enough rejection, come to feel as though you are doing something wrong. Thank you for your comment!

Joined: 12/30/2007

Msg: 22 (view)

looking for a single dad Posted: 6/27/2009 12:57:59 PM
jamesdleo said: "...for the last 3 years girls have treated me like a freak because i was a single dad..." Absolutely. As soon as they find out that you've got custody, they look at you like you just stepped off the spaceship from Pluto and high tail it out of there. I too suffer from the same experience. I just tell myself that it doesn't matter, they weren't fit to be with me anyway. But it still sucks that having a kid disqualifies you for some many women.

Joined: 12/30/2007

Msg: 1 (view)

From a guy with custody of his kid Posted: 6/27/2009 12:50:37 PM
I was wondering about a statement I heard/read about a week ago: "It's ok if a guy has kids, just don't tell me that they're the most important thing in the world to you. Who wants to be 2nd best all the time?" The quote is paraphrased, but it hits closly enough to the original for me to make my point. Here's my question: Is it a sign of incompatability between the two people if one has kids and openly states that they value the kid more than any other person they're ever going to meet? Because I'm like that. Women may or may not be forever, but my daughter will always be the apple of my eye. I didn't know what love really meant until I had my daughter. Whenever I meet a woman, I ask myself if I think it would be possible to love that woman like I do my daughter. Does this make me potentially uncaring in a relationship, that I put first families first? Does the fact that I will look after my child no matter what (or more importantly for this site, no matter who) comes along means that I am not capable of being an acceptable partner in a relationship? And I think it's fair to say up front that the answers (if any) to this question won't change my position on my kid! She'll always be number one to me. Personally, I wouldn't want to date a woman with kids who didn't have them placed as their life's highest priority, but I have always been unusual in my outlook on life, so who knows? Is the "My kids come first" line in a profile a warning sign that this person will not be a good person to try and start a relationship with?

Joined: 12/30/2007

Msg: 12 (view)

Do men really like tatoos on women (lots of them or 1 or 2?) Posted: 6/27/2009 12:30:35 PM
Yep. I love tats on women, and it doesn't matter where. I also love piercings, location unimportant. Why? Because I have both and common ground is what we're all here to find, isn't it? Even if she's got the home made, looks-like-it-was-done-in-prison tat, I don't mind. I'ma laugh at her for it, but I don't mind them one bit.

Joined: 12/30/2007

Msg: 233 (view)

Would you date someone who has had an orgy with 3+ men? Posted: 6/24/2009 8:03:41 PM
@ Rogue Saint Said: "you can sleep with 3 women in one night and you're a stud, whereas she exorcises the same freedom as you and she's a slut" Response: No, both individuals are still sluts. Now, the question is where the two see the relationship going. Is the final goal one you can imagine this person being able to fulfill? If the OP is looking for an easy lay, and nothing much more serious, then by all means, continue the relationship. If he's looking for a woman to take home to meet mother, then maybe he'd better put some serious thought into this. He isn't going to be able to forget the fact that this woman slept with 10 guys at once, it hit him hard enough that he posted it here. That's going to be a major hurdle later on in the relationship. Nothing against the girl, or her actions, but it's already bothering him, and it isn't going to stop doing so.

Joined: 12/30/2007

Msg: 18 (view)

What happened to asking a girl out? Posted: 6/24/2009 2:28:23 PM
earthangele said: "With all the pychos out there since back in the day...people are extra careful who they meet and date... " Response: I respectfully disagree. The percentage of the population classified as "psycho" is probably still the same, and fairly constant through out time. What has increased is our ability to spread the word about their actions farther, and faster than ever before. Back in the day, someone killed someone in Florida, they never heard about it in California. These days, it's in the National news cycle within 20 minutes. Besides, most guys feel less threatened by women than the reverse. At least, I do.

Joined: 12/30/2007

Msg: 17 (view)

What happened to asking a girl out? Posted: 6/24/2009 2:23:16 PM
bassgirl747 said: "Why is it always "wait and see" with every single meeting or phone call? even a few months down the road? No one takes a chance anymore?" Response: Not when divorce is so common and costly. Welcome to the hyperlegal society.

Joined: 12/30/2007

Msg: 229 (view)

Would you date someone who has had an orgy with 3+ men? Posted: 6/24/2009 2:18:59 PM
Seriously, 10 men? One word my man: hooker. No woman sleeps with 10 men if she isn't getting paid for it and filmed. Think about it. How often do you just run into groups of 10 guys willing to get naked in front of one another and potentially rub uglies with their buddies, even in Vegas? It would make for some interesting water cooler conversations back at work, that is for sure. So now that we've thought about what this scenario really describes, you are faced with a choice. It all depends on if you're looking for a serious relationship, or a wild, short sexcapade. If you're looking for someone to marry, the steps you should take immediately are: 1) exercise knee, and 2) kick to curb. If you just want to get laid, stay with her and try to tag some of her friends. God knows she's going to be sleeping with your's. Don't get her pregnant. Best of luck.

Joined: 12/30/2007

Msg: 713 (view)

Do women mind single dads with kids Posted: 6/24/2009 2:02:53 PM
Lovesent wrote: "I don't have kids of my own and as long as you OK with me not having that expirience and you not telling me "kids your first priority" I guess it's OK. Who would want to come 2nd in relationship? I wouldn't. Either you can balance that we will be even when in relationship or keep your priorities for someone who has kids too with them being 1st priority for them than you will come 2nd or 3rd too. It's only fair" Response: And why would you want to date any man who would put something ahead of his children? They are his family now, you aren't. Hasn't it occurred to you that the man you're looking for, one who will put someone "not family" ahead of "family" is going to be really bad news for you later on down the road when you are "family" and he's putting a woman who is "not family" ahead of you?

Joined: 12/30/2007

Msg: 92 (view)

Well you made the choice to have a baby with him Posted: 6/24/2009 1:58:08 PM
I'm a father with sole custody, and I have no problems with admitting that I did, in fact, choose a complete flake for a baby's momma. Can't duck or dodge the assertion that it took two to tango, and I was one of them.

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