Creation vs Evolution chat & forums.

Joined: 6/23/2005

Msg: 3639 (view)

Creation vs Evolution Posted: 7/9/2006 10:25:57 PM
I just find the conflict between science and the bible ironic. Throughout the Bible, knowledge of God is compared with the wonders of nature. As stated in Psalms 19:1, "The Heavens tell of God's glory and the sky declares his handiwork." Also in Romans 1:20, "Since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." The basic tension between religion and science is biblical literalism. Literalism is simply not an effective way to extract meaning from the bible. In the first three days of creation there's evening and morning without a sun. The sun and moon wern't created until the fourth day (Gen. 1:14-16) . Having an evening and morning without a sun might have encouraged the adult reader to look beyond a simple reading of the text. In another example, Adam is told, "Of every tree in the garden you may eat freely. But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for on the day that you eat of it you shall surely die" (Gen. 2:16, 17). The verb in the Hebrew text is doubled to emphasize the certainty of the punishment for transgression, hence "surely die." So what does Adam do? As typically human, he eats of it. And then he lives another 930 years. Jesus also taught in parables, physical truths with spiritual meaning.

Joined: 6/23/2005

Msg: 3636 (view)

Creation vs Evolution Posted: 7/9/2006 5:20:09 PM
Why might a Scientist become a Christian: -the intelligibility of the universe in terms of mathmatical physics. - the astonishingly high information content in even the simplest self-replicating biochemical system. -the extrodinary fine tuning of the universe.

Joined: 6/23/2005

Msg: 49 (view)

Dating someone almost twice as old as you Posted: 11/22/2005 1:24:22 PM
"Maturity is a state of mind, it prevails in those who pursue it..." I agree. I've come across children who seemed more mature then others their age, and this is how they relate to people and find friends. I often forget that some of the friends I have are years younger or older then me because often we can all relate to each other. Years of age shouldn't matter, it's by knowledge and experiance.

Joined: 6/23/2005

Msg: 2360 (view)

Creation vs Evolution Posted: 11/21/2005 4:01:31 PM
"And? Your point?" Feral - I was just backing your statement by showing some quotes on why it is important for those who hold the creation view to look into science to back their faith, and also how science can also be a faith. I'm coming to think that it's because of the observable order in nature from science that we still have religion. Science has been used to demonstrate many spiritual truths. I kinda see science to be religions government, although its knowledge can also be used for rebellion against it. The only interest I have in science is to see how it reflects on religion. The main question I have on science is to see how close we come to finding who or what governs it all, if anything at all, and if it backs with high percentile to the bible. There is one thing though that I find to be an important fact on both sides of the debate. Both can agree on how valuable it is to be alive, by chance or intelligence, either way, we are very privileged to be here.

Joined: 6/23/2005

Msg: 28 (view)

Dating someone almost twice as old as you Posted: 11/20/2005 11:33:41 PM
"Define dating in this instance... Are you going to movies, dancing and dinner? Or just to her place? Squeak" We just go out and hang out wherever whenever we can. We only get to go out once or twice every two weeks because she has to take care of her 9 year old son.

Joined: 6/23/2005

Msg: 2339 (view)

Creation vs Evolution Posted: 11/20/2005 10:59:04 PM
". . . the few scientists who accept the creation belief and are doing legitimate science, like I tried to point out in another post, are doing what scientists are supposed to do, which is question the prevailing theory. I say more power to them on that score, because it only strengthens our knowledge." "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." "Scientists were rated as great heretics by the church, but they were truly religious men because of their faith in the orderliness of the universe." -Albert Einstein

Joined: 6/23/2005

Msg: 1 (view)

Dating someone almost twice as old as you Posted: 11/20/2005 12:38:09 PM
I'm 21 and I've been seeing this woman for a while and she's almost twice as old me (17 yrs older) and things seem to be working out between us, if it were just us. But I've been getting a lot of responses from older friends, and so has she, that we shouldn't be seeing each other because of the age difference, and that it will never work out. I just want to know if anyone has any advise or knowlege on the subject to help me out because I really want our relationship to work but I don't like being afraid of telling family members and older adults our age difference when asked (having that the 17 year difference is not noticable just by sight which is on our side) and not knowing what to say when they tell me that it's wrong and we shouldn't be seeing each other.

Joined: 6/23/2005

Msg: 2269 (view)

Creation vs Evolution Posted: 11/18/2005 11:33:47 PM
"Even I, who do not believe in ultimate purpose or universal consciousness, can't read accounts of modern physics without getting chills from the potential philosophical implications. Clearly there are levels of causation beyond our kenning, and clearly there is an implication of a deep level of unity." "For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse." -Romans 1:20

Joined: 6/23/2005

Msg: 27 (view)

Christianity....Question.. Posted: 11/14/2005 2:34:47 AM
The bible does talk about man going to Heaven before Christ came, but the main point is when he came. He came at a time when most, if not all, of man kind was turning away from God. If he hadn't come at that time in history, we would have all gone to hell because we were all being misconcieved. The story of Jesus is just like the story of Noah and so is the second coming.

Joined: 6/23/2005

Msg: 1948 (view)

Creation vs Evolution Posted: 11/13/2005 11:10:27 PM
Sorry about the confusion in defintion, and I really do hate to use analogies mostly because I think most of them can be poked with so many flaws, especially in a debate, but since I was tired I decided to use one and now with regret. Just to get the definitions straight, here's how I found each term to be defined: Creationism or Creation Science: The belief that the earth is no more than 10,000 years old, and that all biological life forms were created in six calender days and have remained relatively stable throughout their existance. Intelligent Design or Design Theory: The belief that the earth and biological life owe their existance to a purposeful, intelligent creator. Darwinism: The belief that undirected mechanistic processes (primarily random mutation and natural selection) can account for all the diverse and complex living organisms that exist. Insists that there is no long range plan or purpose in the history of life (i.e., that changes happen without intent). Micro-evolution: Refers to minor variations that occur in populations over time. Examples include variation in moth coloration and finch beaks, and the emergence of different breeds of dogs. Macro-evolution: Refers to the emergence of major innovations or the unguided development of new structures (like wings), new organs (like lungs), and body plans (like the orgin of insects and birds). Includes changes above the species level, especially new phyla or classes. Common descent: The theory that all currently living organisms are descended from a common ancestor. I hope this clears up all the contradictions and slippery ambigious definitions you found in my posts. As far as being vague goes, I'll get back to you on that.

Joined: 6/23/2005

Msg: 1944 (view)

Creation vs Evolution Posted: 11/13/2005 10:00:28 PM
"No, Intelligent Design is absolutely not a theory based on scientific inference. It is a belief (at the most a PHILOSOPHICAL ASSERTION) that conscious being(s) created the physical universe. You cannot test this, therefore it is not science." So you don't believe in forensic science? "There is a ridiculous amount of evidence and scientific observation in support of Evolution. As to evidence of Creationism: of the entire fossil record we have not once found a fossil that when observed under a microscope was found to have the stamp, "MADE BY GOD (C)". Please show me the hard evidence for Macro-Evolution. As far as the stamp of God goes, imagin you found two shirts by two different brands but there was no tag to show which brand was which. After careful study and comparison you'll find which shirt is which brand. Compare stable life to things that are designed and things that come from random mutation, which brand does it seem to fit?

Joined: 6/23/2005

Msg: 9 (view)

Christmas & Easter Posted: 11/13/2005 9:35:38 PM
I celebrate Christmas for the birth of Christ and I love the symbolism of it being Celebrated in Winter. It's warmth in the season of cold and cloudy darkness, the very thing that Christ was himself, and the very thing that the book of Revelations teaches us about the human spirit; When the world has gone cold, that's when Christ will come. Easter is great as well because it's a celebration of the resurrection of Christ and it happens in Spring, after Winter and it's considered one of the most beautiful times in the year. I reminds me of what happens to the world at the end of Revelations, and the story of what happened to Christ.

Joined: 6/23/2005

Msg: 1936 (view)

Creation vs Evolution Posted: 11/13/2005 6:02:41 PM
The scientific method can be used only to prove repeatable things; it isn't adequate for proving or disproving many questions about a person or event in history. Now if the scientific method was the only method of proving something, you couldn't prove that you went to your first hour class this morning or that you had lunch today. There's no way you can repeat those events in a controlled situation. The only way you would be able to prove it is through what is called legal-historical proof or forensic science. In other words, a verdict is reached on the basis of the weight of the evidence. It depends on three types of testimony: oral testimony, written testimony, and exhibits (such as a gun, bullet, nbotebook). Using the legal method of determining what happened, you could pretty well prove beyond reasonable doubt that you were in class this morning: your friends saw you, you have your notes, the professor remembers you.

Joined: 6/23/2005

Msg: 1925 (view)

Creation vs Evolution Posted: 11/13/2005 2:37:30 PM
The problem with using the words "Creation and Evolution", is that they are very broad in definition, what is known as "wagon words" for carrying along a lot more beliefs then what every evolutionist or creationist would believe. A better use of words would be Darwinism and Intelligent Design Theory, and like Darwinism, intelligent design theory is a scientific inference derived from biological evidence. For example, to Darwinist things appeare to have evolved, and to the I.D. Theorist, things appear to have been designed. But there is no solid evidence to prove that either one is correct, it's just a struggle on whether or not you get to choose what to believe, and if these differing views are allowed to be taught.

Joined: 6/23/2005

Msg: 1883 (view)

Creation vs Evolution Posted: 11/12/2005 11:06:58 AM
If we want to think of science as seeking truth, it needs to be open to possible non-physical explanations. [qoute]What you have just stated is that if we want to think of science as reality based, then it needs to be open to explanations that are not based on reality. No escaping it. That is what you are really saying. So how are we supposed to define reality? When it gets down to Quantum reality things get real confusing. What is wave/paticle duality? Why do photons act like waves when we arn't observing but particles when we are? How come we can never know where an electron is And where it is going? Why can't we ever reach the speed of light? How can light be three things (waves, particles, and electromagnectic radiation) all at the same time? Kinda sounds like the characteristics of God, yet this is what science have discovered.

Joined: 6/23/2005

Msg: 1867 (view)

Creation vs Evolution Posted: 11/12/2005 12:44:16 AM
The goal of science is to offer the best possible naturalistic explanation for phenomena in the material world, but is also referred to as seeking truth. There’s a hidden world view here, Naturalism, that the only truth that there is will be naturalistic. So this is the problem with placing a non-physical designer as a cause in the natural world. If we want to think of science as seeking truth, it needs to be open to possible non-physical explanations. It’s a scientific endeavor to demonstrate that design does not exist in the physical world, but for scientists to try to demonstrate that design does exist in the physical world it is currently deemed religious. If science is truly seeking truth, then that argument should be able to go both ways. What Intelligent Design does is re-introduce the concept of teleology(purpose). The assignment of no-purpose to things has stifled investigation. For example, the vestigial organ arguments where is was thought that the tonsils and the appendix are hang overs from some pre-historic past or some earlier ancestor and serve no real function. Today they turn out to be real important parts of the immune system. So what’s the problem with purpose? When science tries to function as a secular religion.(explain our origins via purely law and chance, establish social goals, personal values.) Then it gets to a point where it’s not a science vs. religion issue but a religion vs. religion issue. Science is not technically a “religion”, but it can have religious values and implications. Social Darwinism’s application of “survival of the fittest” and “you are only a cosmic accident” has hardly proven fruitful for society, and some real interesting world leaders come along like Hitler for example. Atheist have also used science as a crutch and Darwinism made it possible to have intellectual atheist. You can still assume there is a designer and be agnostic, it doesn’t really put you under the category of a Christian or Creationist. But what separates dogma from genuine truth seeking is humility, admitting that you could be wrong.

Joined: 6/23/2005

Msg: 1736 (view)

Creation vs Evolution Posted: 11/8/2005 3:28:38 PM
"General Relativity, for instance, was well established well before the famous light bending experiment on the basis of observations that had already been made that General Relativity could explain better then its previous theories of gravity. So as we're thinking about intelligent design as a scientific research program, we should also be touting its explanatory power as one of the key features, and not only placing on ourselves a burden for making new predictions of new data that we don't yet have, and realizing that one of the reasons that there's so much interest in intelligen design is that it explains so much that we already know about and it explains it better then the leading competitor, Evolutionary Hypotheses."

Joined: 6/23/2005

Msg: 224 (view)

My End of Rhyme Posted: 7/10/2005 2:33:34 AM
Because of you, Somethings different now, something in my head Now it’s hard to sleep, and I stay awake in bed Everything seems clear now and all put together I don’t want this to end, I wish it would last forever I look at you, and you look so beautiful Sometimes thinking about you makes me all tearful I wish I was near you, I want to be close I want to be your best friend and know you the most You give me inspiration, inspiring me to write And sometimes your inspiration keeps me up all through the night It was you who inspired me to write all this down I’ve written many things, but nothing felt this profound And I didn’t want to go on wasting anymore useful time So I leave you with this, to complete my end of rhyme Just know I love you for everything that you are inside and everything my eyes could never deny because of you, I'm no longer afraid to die as long as I know that you're here by my side

Joined: 6/23/2005

Msg: 367 (view)

What is your favorite movie quote? Posted: 7/10/2005 1:55:52 AM
“I’m not against technology doctor. I’m against the men who deify it at the expense of human truth.” -Contact “There’s still some good in this world, and it’s worth fighting for.” -The Two Towers (Lord of the Rings) “First there is desire. Then passion. Then suspicion, jealousy, anger, betrayal. When love is for the highest bidder, there can be no trust. Without trust, there is no love. Jealousy, yes, jealousy will drive you mad!” -Moulin Rouge

Joined: 6/23/2005

Msg: 28 (view)

the book of Revelation Posted: 7/7/2005 9:43:19 AM
We have the book of Revelation to let us know what happens when the fire begins to go out: Ultimately, the world is handed over to Satan, and it's only then in great tribulation that it becomes clear that the word of God is the only way, truth, and life. Although most still choose to ignore it because of the majority of those who aren't following it. The ones who ignore it become deceived by Satan and follow him and take his mark As mentioned in chapter 13 verses 7 and 10, even those who remain with God during this time become ruled by Satan, but have the choice not to follow Satan, mentioned as the beast, by faith in the Lord to overcome. The world in the end is destroyed as all things that are ruled by Satan and those who ignore the warnings from God are left outside the gates of the Lords presence and suffer, but those who remained faithful end up in paradise. There is now a new heaven and new earth, Satan is imprisoned along with all those who took his mark and the spiritual fire for God is now rekindled and growing. Once again, it's only when we suffer in tribulation that we search for true answers for life, and we later discover that they all come from God.

Joined: 6/23/2005

Msg: 25 (view)

The church is the bride of Christ Posted: 7/6/2005 3:09:15 AM
Most churches have a low spiritual fire, and can be boring, so it can be hard to find a church that won’t put you to sleep. You can talk the talk and walk the walk, but if you do it with a low spirit of excitement from understanding it, it all seems pointless. When someone tells you a joke, they tell you so they can lift your spirit and make you laugh, but if you don’t understand the joke, it won’t be funny. Most of the time, if the comedian doesn’t have the right kind of energy when he tells the joke it won’t be as funny, but the more he thinks it’s funny, the more energy he’ll have when telling the joke. The same goes when speaking the word of God. Although sometimes it’s just the age of the speaker who won’t have as much physical energy to express when older. I go to church because it proves to me how true the word is. It’s free knowledge on how others went through trial and error and conquered it . Like a coal that’s taken out from the fire and left by itself on brick, it burns out. But when placed back in the fire, it burns again with many others to support it.

Joined: 6/23/2005

Msg: 104 (view)

Just a few questions about the bible... Posted: 7/6/2005 2:25:56 AM
CountIbli, When we choose not to do the will of God, we turn our backs to him, and we allow torture on ourselves. God cannot look upon sin and turns away as we dwell in it, allowing the devil’s actions to come upon us. But like a pearl in the mud, the pearl will always hold the same value but can not be seen when buried in mud. Once we are out of the mud, the Lord is then able to see us and look upon us for protection. We are his treasure if we stay in his sight, but he can’t protect us if we dwell in the mud, in spiritual poverty.

Joined: 6/23/2005

Msg: 45 (view)

Is hell real, you bet..... Posted: 7/5/2005 1:02:31 AM
Well, how do you want to be remembered, as some furious person who deserves to be in Hell and has everyone angered at the thought of you, or someone who everyone can remember as a joyous thought? Remember it's our thoughts that bring God to us, as well as the Devil, and it's the actions of ourselves and others that bring our thoughts. The kingdom of God lives in us, and it is our spirit of love and hate that tell us about Heaven and Hell and how real they are.

Joined: 6/23/2005

Msg: 21 (view)

Religious But NOT Spiritual... Posted: 7/5/2005 12:27:46 AM
Religion is an outward projection of what is spiritual as a reminder. Since we can't see what is of spirit and only what is physical, physical acts that remind us of what is spiritual are used. In time, you can have everything you see and do be religious and have a spiritual signifigance. Although religion is not really needed, it makes it easier to understand the spitiual nature.

Joined: 6/23/2005

Msg: 11 (view)

Curious/Question... LOL!! Posted: 7/4/2005 11:44:21 PM
It took me a while before I actually started reading the bible on a daily basis, but then I realized that it's just like visiting a friend, and when the bible says something that I don't understand or agree with, I put it to the test in my life, and I understand the whole faith thing now, because sometimes living the word of God won't always seem to be true right away, but it's writen that if you stay true to what it says even through the worsed times, you will succeed so I also put that to the test. By faith everything that I had read showed to be true and now it's like the meals I eat every day, I starve to learn more.

Joined: 6/23/2005

Msg: 97 (view)

Just a few questions about the bible... Posted: 7/4/2005 11:18:17 PM
Because of Christ, God no longer gets mad, but when you think about laws, you will break them because you're only thinking about what not to do instead of what is pleasing to your spirit. God is love, not of physical desires but of what is unseen, spiritual desires . All those who love know God because he is love. There is no greater love then one who sacrifices himself for a friend, and by doing this you fulfill the greatest commandment of loving your neighbor as you love yourself which sums up the whole bible.