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zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 357 (view)

Proof for the existence of God Posted: 8/3/2008 11:04:59 PM
Fcking bullsht. Ahh, but your not getting upset. Its kinda like talking to a 12 year old with you. It will be okay, no one is trying to hurt you. When you grow up give me a shout and we can talk some more about it. Peace and love....

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 350 (view)

Proof for the existence of God Posted: 8/3/2008 10:52:09 PM
Therefore I rest my case. Now you know why I treat your belief in god like how I would treat someone who believes in fairies. A childish idea with no basis in fact or reason, and one that rational adults don't subscribe to. And I'm suppose to be impressed by this how? I am not sure what bone your trying to pick and why. I laid out all the reasons and you ignored them, just do me a favor, the next time you go anywhere, try and do it without driving by a church. You have a lot of windmills to slay...Don Quixote

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 344 (view)

Proof for the existence of God Posted: 8/3/2008 10:33:44 PM
Because the belief in fairies is equal to the belief in god. The mere fact that your asking this question gives creedence to the fact that I shouldn't even be having this conversation with you. Is there a book of fairies thats 400o years old? Did fairies suffer like Jesus? Did fairies pass down morals beliefs and laws that are the cornerstone to our society? Come on, your a grown man, can't you do better then fairies? Or do you have a fixation on them we need to know about?

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 338 (view)

Proof for the existence of God Posted: 8/3/2008 10:19:34 PM
If you can't give us a reason why the belief in god is superior to the belief in fairies (or whatever), Explain to me in reasons that are valid how a childs story has any business being in this debate and I will continue. As for the rest I don't know where your getting your ideas that I am trying to get you to do anything or why your getting so upset about it. Stick to the debate and lets go. Your getting more emotional then my Grandma at my wifes funeral. As for you Nancy your ambiguity deserves no response from me.

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 335 (view)

Proof for the existence of God Posted: 8/3/2008 10:07:50 PM
Well for one thing, I did give you accurate reading but like a true person grasping at straws your reading into what he said rather then reading what he said, he was comparing himself to athiests not admiting he was one. Here is another quote.. Around the time he turned 50, he began to articulate more clearly--in various essays, interviews and letters--his deepening appreciation of his belief in God, I will admit for the majority of my life I was agnostic and for what ever reason I did not find God or my spiritual belief in a higher being until a few years after I began to study physics. As for your being rude the only thing you have done in that regard is to change the subject. As for the rest of you athiest, believe me, eventually you will be asking for God to be at your side, one day or the next. But we can play this game all night, I have no intention to change your mind or your views, I am merely stating mine, the rest is on your shoulders.

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 330 (view)

Proof for the existence of God Posted: 8/3/2008 9:40:03 PM
Ahhh whatever, read it for yourself, then toss it in the trash along with the other stuff you don't want to believe... Einstein's beliefs... http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1607298,00.html When you start interjecting imagination and fantasy into a real debate thats when its time to leave.

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 327 (view)

Proof for the existence of God Posted: 8/3/2008 9:31:19 PM
I'll grant you that Sanguis, these are laws of common sense, but again even your saying this does not make it so. I will quote Obama in his recent trip to Iraq, "The troop surge may not have been necassary, the events there in recent months probably would have happened anyway" It's all subjective, but if the laws had not been forged in religion, then where would they have been forged? That makes for some deep analysis since thats not what happened. Think about that the next time you give affirmation. Now I have a headache, LOL in fairies. Or goblins, or boogeymen. Now your just being childish, end of discussion...

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 322 (view)

Proof for the existence of God Posted: 8/3/2008 9:09:36 PM
LMAO! Where is this 'empirical data for a higher being' you speak of? Well I'm glad you asked Singular, first off let me be clear on my stance for I believe in God and I also understand and study physics. I subscribe to Einstein's thinking, (Who also believed in God by the way) that we should find out how God made the universe work, his words. The evidence for all of it is everywhere around you and they are all just as subjective to one another as any theory. We can look at the Shroud of Turin and invite the debate that Jesus was or was not wraped in it. We can look at the EM spectrum and the red shift and invite debate as to if or if it not that means the galaxys are still currently receding and the universe is expanding. Remember that data is billions of years old and is open for debate. In either case all proof and data is subjected to scrutiny and either theory is not 100 percent provable. However... The math is compelling and does give much creedence to the theory, but so too are the laws you live by my friend, the laws laid down by Judeo/Christian ethics that again as I said were forged in these religons that give creedence to a higher being and are the foundation for our society. In either case you have many people to convince there is no God, you have your work cut out for you and I, do not envy your task. Don Quixote comes to mind. Good luck

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 318 (view)

Proof for the existence of God Posted: 8/3/2008 8:18:39 PM
I believe you hit on this a little Sanguis earlier in the thread, but if I may expand a little. In science we have a theory known as big bang, its based on empirical data that few have seen and some take for granted is true. The vast majority of the scientific community and those that have pursued science or take a scientific approach to problems give this theory the benefit of the doubt. In this we know it is not only up to those involved to prove it right, it is also up to those involved to prove it wrong, the rest of us merely listen. This theory has only existed the better part of a century. In theology the foundation of a higher being is based on empirical data that few have seen and most of us take for granted is true. The vast majority of the world believes this and the minority lies in those that don’t. Even those that don’t believe follow the foundations and laws forged by these beliefs handed down from generation to generation and even emanate the practices of those that do believe. The very cornerstone of society rests on and is built on these beliefs and has stood the test of time spanning back more than 4000 years, therefore... It is up to the minority to convince the majority that this foundation for a higher being is a lie and is totally untrue, not the other way around. Oh, and Singular, thats the uncertainty principle

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 20 (view)

What are you really looking for??? Posted: 8/3/2008 7:22:42 PM
Why would I want to decieve someone? I did go in and delete my profile and put in a very vague one Isn't that somewhat contradictary?

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 9 (view)

More college educated women than men Posted: 8/3/2008 7:06:24 PM
No idea what you are referring too That statement says a lot all by itself.. Maybe there is just more women than men... Maybe its still a push from the equal rights era... Maybe there are more families willing to flip the bill for the daughter than the son... Maybe men just don't want to have those loans... Maybe it doesn't mean a damn thing...

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 18 (view)

What are you really looking for??? Posted: 8/3/2008 6:54:21 PM
I think the pond is smaller for those over 40. Many older guys are married or interested in younger women And don't forget the guys who would just rather not take the chance on letting a women in his life again just to screw up a perfectly good thing. Its harder now to let someone in your life at this age and some women forget that. Those that believe they can use the same charm or wit or even stratagy they used at 18 or 25 have to rethink life a little. For those women that want to act like a young woman again with all the same mentality and mind games are going to find that if your going to act like that then men will just go out and find the age and body to fit it as well. But of course this does not apply to everyone and is only one line of thinking.

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 33 (view)

Pornography and female homosexuality Posted: 8/3/2008 6:31:16 PM
Well you have all covered a good bit of ground here, all I can add would be that the entertainment industry in general attracts, just through the pure nature of it, open minded, left leaning, liberal people. Are they really homosexual in pornography? There are those that are I would suppose, but I would bet those that swing both ways are more likely to go farther and make more money in the industry. Do they do it just for the money? This is sex were talking about, right? LOL Tell you what, if you want a good example of bisexuality in the entertainment industry go to your local strip club and start conversing with the girls there. (Ahem, cough cough) I have heard that there are an unusual amount of bisexual dancers there, don't ask me how I know that. LOL Might be a good place to start your thesis on the subject...

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 138 (view)

The Science of Global Warming Posted: 8/3/2008 6:02:52 PM
Main cause of starvation is guess what? No food. Great quote Gottalight, made me spit out my beer. Have to say I am not that into the concept but I will have to go along with Ahoytheredave as being the one that reflects my thoughts best. Seems to me however that for the last few months I have been hearing more and more about Solar variations and cycles and how that effects the climate. I did read that most of the current climate models that indicate climate change are based on observations of a fixed solar input rather than a variance of any sort. New data, which really isn't all that new but more accepted, seems to be showing rather large cycles in solar activity. Its almost as if the scientific commuity is doing one of these, "Whoops, we forgot to adjust for some variables and we need new data on climate change." Kind of glad too, because it is an election year and this has taken a back seat to most issues. Recent polls suggest that most people really aren't buying it either. Now if they want to use it as a kick in the pants to help us get the ball rolling on alternative fuels thats fine. But I'm not going to help go around and stick cork's up cows behinds because cow farts are destroying the ozone.

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 247 (view)

Define the Theory of Evolution Posted: 8/3/2008 12:04:51 PM
Except the Theory of Evolution has nothing to do with the origin of the universe. The Big Bang theory is a seperate theory that works within physics, not biology. Talking about taking things to literally... Yes you are right Superior Intellect, but you are also wrong. Biology cannot work without the elements that came from this science and these theorys. For your Superior mind I will change my words from the Bible and evolution to the Bible and science, since you need to be so literal. This is a very old arguement. The bible is being taken to 'literally'. Well then, which parts are literal, and which parts aren't? What critieria is used to determine which passages are literal, and which ones aren't? Well I suppose the criteria obviously wouldn't come from you, but I am rather sure most can. Unless your willing to believe that trumpets can bring down walls. I am really surprised you didn't hit all the weak parts of my post, we are all waiting anxiously for your next rant and your attempt to stand on top of the mountain. I smell a hint of megalomania...

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 239 (view)

Define the Theory of Evolution Posted: 8/2/2008 9:07:59 PM
I see the wisdom of Solomon is back, lol, if you misinterpreted the bible as bad as our posts I can understand why your so confused about things. The bible teaches that god made man out of dirt. Dirt, primodial soup, whats the difference? There are actually many parallels between the Bible and evolution, if you read both you will find them. For example, God created the heavens and the earth before he created light. In big bang theory there was no light for 350,ooo years. Perhaps the profits were smarter then some believe. the fastest way to make an atheist is to get someone to read the bible. The problem is that this, as has been said, is being taken to literally. Lets use another example.... Beautifullady said this.. Adam and Eve had many children over the hundreds of years that they lived. Cain's wife was his sister. So literal in fact that people interject what they wish to fill in the missing pieces. Now if I were a man of the cloth I certainly wouldn’t want to believe that, and guess what, they don’t. The Bible is a good book, but its not the only book, in fact many books that were once in the Bible are no longer there along with many passages which were removed for reasons of control. For example Genesis is incomplete in the fact that there was another woman before Eve. She was made from the same “Dirt” that Adam came from and she considered herself equal to Adam. Certainly women of today would appreciate that! Beautifullady would rather believe that the Bible indicates incest at this point, to which there is incest in the Bible, but not here. She would also give into the fact that the current version indicates superiority in men rather than the equality that she probably wants. So we can defer at this point, given the missing passages, that Cain’s wife was probably offspring of Lilith, the woman that came before Eve, who was removed from Genesis because in those times women were not considered equal. Not to mention the fact the she was evil herself. If your going to study history you have to take into consideration the books of the bible, and regardless if your studying history or your an all out Bible believer, you have to consider the missing books as well, just ask any theologian. The Bible is great in that it represents and records the beginnings of civilization. Before the words were written the stories were past down to each generation though story telling. Individuals were given charge to remember the stories past down from there elders from families to generations. Think about how that must have messed up the stories as they past down the line. In each story there is myth mixed with fact, we can separate the two with our common sense and with the Bible we can peer back in time over 4000 years and more to the beginnings of recorded modern civilization. We can even see in the book of Moses how we once recorded things on tablets of stone. Again, there were more than two tablets and more then ten commandments, just imagine what was left out and why...

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 221 (view)

Define the Theory of Evolution Posted: 8/1/2008 10:00:40 PM
Good point Frog Eyes, and isn't it funny how those that try so hard to slam evolution do usually end up to be extremists. One of their arguments is that God is perfect and he made all living creatures perfect. Then I have to ask, why then do people breed animals to be even more perfect as I described in Msg 211? Why do people look for certain traits in others before we procreate with them? If everyone and everything is perfect then there is no need to look, the first person of the opposite sex to come along should do just fine.

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 33 (view)

Science of pressure? Posted: 8/1/2008 9:25:59 PM
Good explaination Fortran, I will have to look into those things. The cool thing about electricity is that you can see it in a lightning bolt or a spark. You can feel it and you can even smell it, or the ozone it produces. Ever accidently leave your finger on a 120 volt plug while your plugging it into the wall? At 120 volts you can actually feel the amps building, I will say slowly obviously because I'm still alive. Then compare that to the 75000 volts coming out of the end of a spark plug wire on your car. WHAM! That 75000 hits you a whole lot faster than that 120 volts does. If it had the same amps behind it I would obviously be dead. The point is that you can actually feel the difference in the volts. Don't try this at home folks!!

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 218 (view)

Define the Theory of Evolution Posted: 8/1/2008 8:59:46 PM
That is really sad BL, you have a very twisted view on life, not to worry your God will forgive you too. You just really need to learn not to use it against people. Not only is it in poor taste its against the OP's rules of this thread as well as this forum. Yes, you are attacking people, telling people they are going to hell just because they don't believe in what you believe in is in fact attacking. God help you...

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 215 (view)

Define the Theory of Evolution Posted: 8/1/2008 8:13:07 PM
Well I'm sorry Beutifullady, I thought since you were throwing quotes from the Bible that perhaps you knew the Bible. If you would bother to read Genesis up to 17 you will see that there is no origin for Cain's wife. It was Adam and Eve and Cain and Abel, then Cain's wife shows up, hence the joke. The problem with most Creationist, and I use that term loosely, is that they always assume that anyone buying into evolution, or anyone that is labled as a scientist is automatically an atheist. (As BL did with her Bible quote to me) For most it seems they are so offended by the science of natural selection that they totally ignore the theory all together. It's not surprising really since reading and truly comprehending it can take years, as well as the religion they subscribe to. Most in fact do such a poor job understanding their respective religons that they usually put their own twist on it making it to be something else entirely. As for evolution most just hear that life evolved from lower organisms, dedice they don't like that idea and move on resenting it believing it is against their own ideas when in fact nothing could be further from the truth. Most are surprised that Darwin himself believed in God, and even more are surprised that Einstein did as well. In fact most scientist do believe in a higher being as well as the vast majority of the people on the planet. When it comes right down to it most of us believe in the same thing, we just arrive at it from different perspectives. One of the writtings that moved Darwin into his studies was William Paley who was a Christian philosopher. Plato himself believed in a divine being. Einstien said, "I am trying to find out how God made the universe work." Religion is suppose to be something that comforts people and helps and supports community. Instead many use it as a way of attacking and belittling when they are faced with things they do not understand. Most will however find that those though out history with such original thougths began with religion or found religion in their studies of science. In the end it does not matter if you believe in God or not, not believing in him will not be an automatic ticket to hell. In fact if he is the Christian God most believe in he will welcome you with open arms and forgiveness...Any religion that teaches otherwise is not worth the parchment its written on....

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 212 (view)

Define the Theory of Evolution Posted: 8/1/2008 6:54:51 PM
And this is an argument for what Beautifulllady? "And Cain knew his wife, and she concieved and bore Enoch." Genesis 17 Cain's wife obviously came from the people tree. There seems to be an ambiguousness to your post...

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 210 (view)

Define the Theory of Evolution Posted: 8/1/2008 6:21:28 PM
Well just like those that don't want to destroy the environment by telling us we can't drill for oil, then go fill up there SUV's with gas and drive 90 mph, there are those that don't believe in evolution and still enjoy the fruits of our labors with breeding. They watch horse racing and know in the back of thier minds we stud horses. They eat animal that have been bred to produce more meat, more milk, more eggs. They eat fruits and vegatable that have been genetically altered or favored to produce more, be more resistant to disease and insects. They generally have dogs or cats or some kind of animal that is a mix of breeds, or has been bred over the centurys in some way to be a new breed, ignoring the fact that has been done and saying, "Yes this is a pure bred!" when in 99 percent of domesticated animals, its not. I guess time erases evolution. Me? I am just glad we can feed everyone that we can and be so entertained by these animals. Just don't try and tell a creationist that breeding and evolution are the same thing...you will just get this big blank stare while they hold the leash to that prize winning dog...

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 31 (view)

Science of pressure? Posted: 8/1/2008 5:44:18 PM
When comparing electric circuits to a water system in analoguous terms (as it seems that is the only thing you listened to in science class) the voltage is the pressure, the amperage is the flow rate, and the resistance is the pipe size. BUT only as an analogy, they aren't the same things at all. I disagree Father3, while I know your statement holds truth, when we try to teach someone what voltage is its basically impossible to to do so without using the term force or pressure. We can say it is only a difference in potential, but this term only describes stored energy and the fact that it has the ability to move. In other words I have an aversion towards those that teach by saying what it is not and not what it is.

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 21 (view)

Science of pressure? Posted: 7/28/2008 11:45:48 PM
Well since it will always require energy to create pressure, the energy, whatever that may be, is the cause, pressure is the effect. If mass moving from high pressure state to a low one is called pressure then why is it that energy moving from a "high" state to a "low" state is not called pressure? Thats known as potential, not pressure, pressure again is the effect, the difference in potential is the cause. Lets examine the way a electrical generator works? You forgot there has to be another form of energy to drive the generator. Why don't you just google this stuff, theres pages and pages of it out there all for free.

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 19 (view)

Science of pressure? Posted: 7/28/2008 11:31:07 PM
I'm not sure where your going with this magpie but I will follow for awhile. Atmospheric pressure and hydrodynamic pressure in the ocean are an effect, the cause is gravity. Pressure in electricity is measured in voltage. electromagnetic fields are described as force or an interaction. Again if pressure were a result this would be an effect, EM would be the cause. What is the point?

Zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 179 (view)

Define the Theory of Evolution Posted: 7/28/2008 6:47:38 PM
Speaking as a devil's advocate, I don't see why we can't accept the possibility of both, ya know? Considering the complexity of DNA I would have to agree with you. At some point all theorys fail, and as all humans have done since we were smart enough to find fire and keep it going, yes I said find fire not make it, we will make up stories in our minds about things we do not understand. The important thing about these stories is if they are manageable and can support not only the community, but the individual. Its very important for any theory not to be taken to heart so literally that we form groups that go out and kill everyone that doesn't agree with it.

Zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 242 (view)

Universe came from nothing Posted: 7/28/2008 6:26:04 PM
Funny thing about Intelligent Design, if you read it you can also come to this conclusion.... "Aliens created fossils."

Zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 241 (view)

Universe came from nothing Posted: 7/28/2008 6:23:08 PM
I would have to google a citation for this, but I think that helium can and is created in stars....but to your point I am aware of no other event other than the BB where hydrogen is created...I don't know a lot about cosmology though so I could be totally wrong... Correct, Helium is fused in the core of stars, however there was and is to much helium already existant in the universe to only have been fused in the hearts of stars, most of it was fused in the big bang. Forgive my inept attemt at trying to explain this theory for it is also only a hobby of mine.. The point was as I found so fascinating when I read it was that all of the known elements were formed in the hearts of stars with the exception of these two. I believe this is one of the things that CERN is going to try to explain or prove in its experiments. Also to know that this thoery predated Hubbles findings and his work on expansion were more or less a confirmation of this thoery that came from the mathmatics of Quantum Mechanics. Cool stuff...

Zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 236 (view)

Universe came from nothing Posted: 7/28/2008 9:53:18 AM
The point was spinor that the only time or place that was hot enough for Hydrogen and Helium to have formed was in the Big Bang itself.

Zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 167 (view)

Define the Theory of Evolution Posted: 7/28/2008 9:44:31 AM
I think I'm going to have to lighten up this thread a little bit, but first the disclaimer... The following is meant to be humorous and is in no way meant to harm anyone or cause a dispute. This also does not mean that I do or don't agree with Darwin, just a little something I heard a creationist say one day. "If we were descendant from apes, why are they still here?" "If we were descendant from apes, why do we use pig parts in a transplant operation? Why not use ape parts?" "If we were desendant from apes, why do we grow replacement parts on the backs of mice?" "Which is it, Apes, Pigs or Mice?

Zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 234 (view)

Universe came from nothing Posted: 7/28/2008 9:06:59 AM
Actually QM has been around for 170 years If its a fact it can be disputed isnt that right? Sure, but heres one you can try to debunk. Compress uranium or plutonium along with some deuterium to critical mass and you get a really big boom, QM predicted this. Heres one overlooked theory that comes from QM that most overlook when it comes to big bang. All of the elements were fused in the hearts of really large stars except for two, hydrogen and helium. No star in the universe is hot enough to have produced those basic elements, this is the question that gave big bang its start, where did those two elements come from?

Zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 855 (view)

Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts Posted: 7/23/2008 5:01:27 PM
Obviously because your not watching it. Please... Katie Couric asked him three times about the troop surge, no answers from Obama that were of any depth beyond the Umms and Errrs. Gibson asked him about his statements about Jerusalem and basicly got an apology out of Obama about his flub up and made him look like the rookie that he is about foreign affairs. Gibson not the one he needs to be apologizing to... You did hear that Obama wants to reduce the troops in Iraq right? He is sending them to Afghanistan even thought the military there has already said this won't help... Change we can believe in! With no depth and no real plans, come on, his entire platform has just been busted....

Zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 852 (view)

Let the real show begin (Obama VS McCain) What are your thoughts Posted: 7/23/2008 4:46:10 PM
So what are the Obama supporters doing now that he is flip flopping on the war? His most recent statements about the war and what he is going to do about Israel are really inspiring as the 3 major network news anchors take him on. I believe the one that really gave me confidence in Obama was when he said... "Uhmm, errr, Ahhh, I don't think I should get involved with that." This being said only after he pissed off half of the middle east... Really good candidate you have there....Good Grief!!

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 113 (view)

Run any combustable engine on water this includes any car. Posted: 7/7/2008 11:36:38 PM
Thanks Too Hot for those wise words... Well I guess your a little behind the times over there in Australia, we have been using cleaning agents in our gas for a very long time now. When fuel injection became neccasary for EPA standards they had to use agents to keep them clean. We are really starting to see where your problem lies Solomon, your reading things into peoples words, bigshrek was just joking son, give him a break. You also took my octane description way off base too, I said nothing of the sort, the refining properties define octane as well as some additives. That leads us back to that you should probably go back and really find out what HHO really is and what it can and can't do, because you got that one wrong too my friend. Your describing that like it was some kind of special gas when it is nothing more than uncombined water. You have to have a device to keep the two gases seperate, other wise when 2 hydrogen atoms meet a single oxygen atom, guess what, you've got water. H-H-O, get it? Nothing you can do about it unless you ignite the hydrogen before the oxidizer gets to it. Something that you can't do in an intake manifold. This is something I have been trying to tell you all along...

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 108 (view)

Run any combustable engine on water this includes any car. Posted: 7/7/2008 5:40:35 PM
Another fallacy that needs cleared up by Solomon is about octane. Octane is flame inhibitor or a knock retardant. It helps prevent ignition from occuring in the combustion chamber before or after the spark plug has done its job. This is what causes pinging or detonation in your engine, when two sources of ignition occur on the compression stroke. Best thing to do is to check your owners manual on the type of fuel to burn, but if your engine does not have any ping or detonation then it is not neccasary to burn high octane fuel. It will not improve combustion in an an engine that does not require it, it will not clean carbon or injectors or make your engine last longer. Generally it is used in higher performance engines or high compression ratio engines which some manufactures are using, so again, consult your manual or service dealer and save that cash for something better..

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 107 (view)

Run any combustable engine on water this includes any car. Posted: 7/7/2008 4:48:04 PM
Heres some stuff thats just a little more believable, and verifiable, even a chance to win some money if you have a good design... http://www.nbc30.com/news/16768626/detail.html Ask yourself why the HHO design isn't here in this contest... http://www.progressiveautoxprize.org/

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 106 (view)

Run any combustable engine on water this includes any car. Posted: 7/7/2008 4:07:09 PM
I dont think it said every claim. Your right Diamond, however, for over a decade the sellers of this stuff have been able to make it work while the buyers can't. You know, I am certainly not telling anyone not to go out and buy it, go for it. And you are also right Wolf, however most of what is stated in these particular pages is rather basic stuff along with what I have said. All of it can be verified, just use your search engine...

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 103 (view)

Run any combustable engine on water this includes any car. Posted: 7/7/2008 3:15:14 PM
Your smokin to much weed Solomon Here it is again, I know you can't type worth a damn so you probably cant' read well either, here is the link and the excerpt... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO_gas Oxyhydrogen is often mentioned in conjunction with devices that claim to increase automotive engine efficiency or to operate a car using water as a fuel. Many of these claims, prima facie, violate the Laws of thermodynamics. As stated over and over again in this thread. Go back to school mate, and try to stay out of jail selling your crap, the first one wasn't able to. Good luck to the fraud...Solomon

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 19 (view)

Blue Eyes: The hardest logic puzzle in the world Posted: 7/6/2008 2:23:47 AM
Okay, I understand the anwer, but this seems like a lot of non-sense to me. If I had brown eyes and I knew and watched the blue eyed people begin to dwindle down from 100 to 1, all the while I knew that there were 99 other brown eyed people I would have to come to the conclusion that people with brown eyes are dumb if all of them stayed. Also the primary question doesn't seem to be completely answered, "and on what night?" No one is answering that and there seems to be no frame of referance to do so unless brown eyed people are dumb and don't leave. I find this offensive to brown eyed people...I would leave on Friday.... Thats suppose to be a joke, but take it as it comes from this brown eyed gent... Or 100 brown, 99 blue, and he could have red eyes. Also, how does this work? If we have 100 brown and 100 blue, why is there 99 blue and a guru with red eyes?

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 25 (view)

Where have all the good people gone? Posted: 7/6/2008 1:40:44 AM
Interesting how you put that Merrylass, be it as you are the first one that used the phrase, "Bad attitude" in this thread. It goes back to perspective, you obviously see that in others posts, I do not. I see a few agreeing with her, I see a few making light of it and I see a few that are either simply trying to help her see another way or, do not wish that anyone would feel that way, including themselves. Negative emotions require much more energy to maintain than positive energy. In order to maintain a negative view on the world and still have friends you must also project that negativity onto others around you. You must maintain the shroud of negativity across your domain and that takes energy. Positive emotional energy spreads like wild fire and requires no extra energy on your part. Most people would rather maintain a good attitude and most gravitate towards those that do. Chances are if the majority of what you see is negative, then there is probably someone that is projecting that into your life, and your letting them without even knowing it. Maybe its you, maybe its not, maybe that is what the OP is doing to us. Its a good idea to check your attitude from time to time, glad you brought that up.

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 89 (view)

Run any combustable engine on water this includes any car. Posted: 7/5/2008 6:31:00 PM
These two statements and actually more, are posted by 8one2... "who resort to childish insulting and pushing assumption and opinion as truth?" "Attack a poster with assumption and insult" Then he says this... Put on some new Depends and get a life, the stuff in your diaper is leaking and is now coming from your mouth" "People just can't see that being a hemorrhoid upon existence is not a good way to live." Which as I have pointed out to him before, makes him a hypocrite, he cancels himself out in his own words Now here is the truth... For those that believe that big corporations or governments are actually trying to hide or supress technology that will help us has obviously never worked for either. Here is the thing... Corporations: Always try to work as cheaply as possible, that means they will explore any option available to them to do so, even if that means using other forms of energy, which they are, despite what big oil wants. They cannot keep secrets, they always leak out, take the video gaming industry as an example amoung many others that actually try to keep secrets. Governments: Do not operate as one entity, one branch does not know or care what other branches are doing and usually even within the branches or even in the very same offices, one doesn't know what the other is doing. This is because of ignorance, not because someone knows how to keep a secret. It is impossible for government to do anything right, let alone keep a huge secret. Take the Manhattan Project for example, need I say more.... If there were actually any miracle machines or technology that would solve this problem niether of the above mentioned entities would be able to surpress it or stop it. The only problem now is that no one can agree on any particular course of action. Very much like in this thread as a matter of fact. However, no matter how much anyone wants any one particular thing to work, if it doesn't obey the laws of science and nature, if it just plain doesn't actually work, then its not going to help us...

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 86 (view)

Run any combustable engine on water this includes any car. Posted: 7/5/2008 5:13:00 PM
Guys, I wouldn't worry to much about 8one2 or Solomon, we all know that statements like, "bla bla bla, feelings and bla bla bla I know something and you don't, and bla bla bla, cry, cry emotions and ego's," don't make for a good fuel to burn. 8one2 does it all the time, just ignore him. Lets have someone talk about some facts and science, maybe we can get that to burn as fuel!!

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 79 (view)

Run any combustable engine on water this includes any car. Posted: 7/5/2008 10:55:32 AM
Hydrogen fuel can be used in one of two ways. Actual hydrogen fuel that is burned in internal combustion engines is not actually pure hydrogen, it is a natural gas, hydrogen mix, somthing like less than 5% hydrogen. A pure hydrogen fuel cannot be burned in an engine, the combustion temps are to high. The bus project your talking about has been used for a while, it is also used in Europe and is based on hydrogen fuel cells. These take the hydogen and recombine it with oxygen which produces electricity. The electricity is then used to run electric motors to power the bus. The only thing that comes from the exhaust is water...

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 73 (view)

Run any combustable engine on water this includes any car. Posted: 7/5/2008 10:23:39 AM
Heres some more fun facts.... Stanley Meyers claimed he ran his 1.6 liter Volkswagen dune buggy on water instead of gasoline. In1996 he was found guilty of fraud in an Ohio court. Charles H. Garrett from Dallas, Texas allegedly demonstrated a water-fuelled car, which was reported on September 8, 1935. The car generated hydrogen by electrolysis as can be seen by examining Garrett's patent, issued that same year.U.S. Patent 2,006,676 This patent includes drawings which show a carburetor similar to an ordinary float-type carburetor but with electrolysis plates in the lower portion, and where the float is used to maintain the level of the water. Garrett's patent fails to identify a new source of energy.

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 72 (view)

Run any combustable engine on water this includes any car. Posted: 7/5/2008 10:17:11 AM
even though they didn't know the answer without having to search for it. This myth has been around for more than a decade, it is becoming popular again only because of the price of fuel. So anyway I see that your not actually reading the material I supplied you, so here are a few interesting facts that you and others may want to know. Ignition temperature of gasoline is 495F or 232c, which allows gasoline engines to run at around 190f to 230f normally with its cooling system and generally overheat and sieze at 260f. HHO ignites at 1065f or 570c, over twice the temperature of gasoline, and if you were to get the fuel to sustained reaction that would be at 2800c. All of these temperature will overheat and sieze an engine very quickly. So even if you are actually getting past the electrolysis problem, which your not as stated in post 55 , and if you do produce HHO it will not even ignite in the combustion chamber. All its going to do is turn back into H2O...

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 66 (view)

Run any combustable engine on water this includes any car. Posted: 7/4/2008 11:46:46 AM
I do not know what these other kits are you refer to that you have not stated, unless you're just here to utter things without the proper information for people to be able refer to them to be checked. Good grief Charlie Brown, I'm the one thats not posting information? What the hell are you talking about? The link is in the first post of this thread, you want some more? Google: HHO, I got 3.2 million hits, anyone can do it... You want some more? These facts seem straight enough, not to bad for Wikipedia, which I don't like, but in this case it's accurate... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO_gas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water-fuelled_car Now wheres your proof? Send it here, they will be glad to run a story on it, (again)... http://www.cnn.com/ http://www.foxnews.com/ http://www.msnbc.msn.com/ As for the rest of your rhetoric...."Yawn!!" Your worse than the people who said the moon missions are a hoax, at least they aren't trying to rip people off...

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 55 (view)

Run any combustable engine on water this includes any car. Posted: 7/3/2008 3:30:16 PM
Well I haven’t bothered opening up this thread for obvious reasons, but now that I have... So now the wisdom of Solomon tells us that we have been spelling electrolysis the wrong way all this time... The first rule of trying to sell crap is to actually know your crap, again, your words. Electrolysis is not as simple a thing to do as you are leading on, (Check Faradays 1st and 2nd laws of electrolysis) only a fraction of the worlds production of hydrogen is produced by electrolysis. Most hydrogen production is done by gaseous diffusion from natural gas. This is because in order to produce enough hydrogen to do you any good you would have to have an alternator or a generator larger than the cars engine is capable of handling. Electrolysis is very inefficient, just ask anyone working at a chemical production plant. Secondly, if you were to produce enough hydrogen to power the car, controlling it would be a huge problem, get to much and you would literally blow your engine to pieces with a standard carburetor or fuel injections system, and probably you along with it. Its rather potent stuff. Thirdly, if you really feel the need to try it the kits are available for a small fee. They have been purchased by a number of garages with the sponsorship of news agencies and tried out, as well as being done by a rather popular show called Mythbusters and they do not work. They don’t produce enough hydrogen to do any good, not enough voltage and the anodes and cathodes sold in these kits are of poor quality. So, like the magnets that were sold to stick on your fuel line or the air diffuser you had to mount to your air cleaner, this one is going in the trash along with the rest of them. Besides Solomon, by selling this stuff you have just put yourself in the same category as any other company trying to sell stuff, you are now The Man, and The Man is only in it for himself.... Oh, and by the way, navel type nuclear reactors don’t produce electricity, they produce heat which drive generators with the use of steam.

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 119 (view)

Is space exploration still necessary?? Posted: 7/3/2008 7:49:27 AM
Good points Cowboy.. For all who seemingly don't know what goes on in space, Google these things... medical research in space space research on geology space research on pollution And really any other topic you can think of for space, google it. Those astronauts aren't just up there for the view, they are actually doing things.

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 12 (view)

Where have all the good people gone? Posted: 7/3/2008 5:44:52 AM
Back to your point and, like Eyes, heres some thought that may help your perspective. Do I know the clerk at my grocery store? Yes, her name is Judy and she loves NASCAR, Do people smile and say hello on the streets? In actuality, yes, most of the time, but most of the time it is I who initiates it. Try it sometime, very seldom do I get blown off. The last time I moved one of my neigbors showed up with a greatings basket. A new neigbor moved in a few years ago and she introduced herself to me with a carrot cake as a gift just to say hello. The last time I was sick many asked if I needed anything. Funny thing about expensive gas and inconsiderate drivers, there are most certainly less of them. In fact expensive gas seems to be forcing people to do more things at home, I have had many more talks with my neigbors recently, I'm even having a few of them over for the 4th of july. Fireworks are still cheap... And as I mentioned in my post, crime is certainly a deterrent in helping us to trust one another, but we have to try and ignore that to some degree. Certainly be safe, but don't let that keep you from getting involved with other things. Hint, your local town newspaper will have activities that you can get involved in that are close to home. Also, as in this thread, don't let things upset you, change your perspective on how you perceive what other people are saying. What you see as an insult may be just a passive statement by the one that said it to you. Overcome the negative and make somthing positive out of it. Also, you seem to be dismissing the help that is offered to you in this thread, try to realize when help is offered and ask yourself why these people went to the trouble to take the time and write these posts. Friends may be closer than you imagine...

zerospazz

Joined: 1/31/2008

Msg: 7 (view)

Where have all the good people gone? Posted: 7/2/2008 7:13:18 PM
Hmmm, I thought I was the only one that felt like that OP, and excuse me for using the term "OP". Kind of impersonal isn't it, I could call you AA, but Average anomaly is so long, lol.... Anyway, lifes experiances I think teaches a great many of us not to trust, go outside the family or outside your circle of friends and one feels at risk. At least thats been my experiance, listening to the news or reading the paper doesn't help much either. Sad as it may be most of us are on our own path, when that path changes a lot of the time that excludes friends we have known for many years. Being somewhat of a student of history, of course only the history I'm interested in, I don't really believe this is anything new to humanity. It takes major problems in our civilization to bring people together, but even then many do not always keep in touch with each other over time. Funny however that we can come together in such huge ways, to fight a war or celebrate the end of it for example, such life altering events have plagued us over the course of human history, millions of lives lost, great frienships are forged, then we go home and watch TV or read a book and seemingly forget about it. You just have to find an interest that many have, join a club, go to meetings, take some classes, then you will make many new friends. For me it was motorcycles that did it...

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