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 Author Thread: A Lover, a Bottle, a God, or Dreams
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 1 (view)
 
A Lover, a Bottle, a God, or Dreams
Posted: 1/29/2009 1:57:33 PM
When I cannot deal with reality,
when life's pressures are overwhelming me,
you promise me lies that all will be well,
and lies are okay, compared to this hell.

You make me forget the pain of the fight,
the same way a sunrise drowns out the night.
The night is still there when I close my eyes,
but when I'm with you, the agony dies.

But there's just one thing I don't understand.
Do I simply have my head in the sand,
or is what you say the only thing true?
If truth causes pain, I'd rather have you.

Is it okay to just change how you feel,
and never to deal with things that are real?
Choosing a dream over being afraid
seems like it might be a pretty good trade.

But this inner cry will never be quiet.
Pain, when ignored, breaks into a riot.
It may be a lie, but I just want peace.
I only want this whole riot to cease.

Please cut through my soul like a cold steel knife
Dying with you is far better than life.
A lover, a bottle, a god, or dreams
are all simply ways to drown a soul's screams.

-Kevin Ranville
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 1 (view)
 
Sonnet XIV - The Search
Posted: 12/24/2008 12:35:42 AM
Sonnet XIV - The Search
by Kevin Ranville

When Adam was first made, he was like God,
both man and woman in a single life,
but God looked down and saw the life was flawed,
so He split him in two and made a wife.
Everything that's pretty, soft, and sweet,
he put into the woman that he formed.
The man alone was no longer complete,
but Adam's lonely bed was finally warmed.
And so it's been for many thousand years,
each newborn child is given half a soul,
and we must search the world in toil and tears
to find true love and be completely whole.
But when I finally meet my dear, sweet love,
then we'll be as complete as God above.
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 1 (view)
 
Nightsong
Posted: 3/31/2008 1:50:13 PM
Nightsong
by Kevin Ranville

The night sang me a song,
a deep, beautiful ballad
it oozed over me in the cold darkness:
warm, sweet honey on my skin...

It cut me deep and made me cry,
bandaging me with bedsheets.
Still singing in the cold darkness,
kissing the wounds it made.

Too sad, too sweet, too soon,
sunrise silenced that sweet song;
it faded as the darkness fled,
scared off by morning’s roaring light.

The cold, dark night came back again,
and again, and again, and again
but the music never returned
The sad, sweet song is gone.

Now the night tells me jokes instead,
many pointless, cruel jokes
whose punchlines I’ve forgotten,
the humour subtly mocking me.

And shovels full of cold dark night
slowly cover up that memory
(...honey on my skin, in the cold, dark night,
warm, sweet honey on my skin...)
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 1 (view)
 
Chains
Posted: 3/9/2008 9:18:23 PM
Chains
by Kevin Ranville

an unlocked cell,
a bright sunny day
is no blessing
to the lost soul
emerging from a cold hard dungeon:

my unchained wrists feel naked,
your warmth is a burning to my frozen heart,
your wide open skies
and boundless floral fields
leave me exposed, vulnerable.
your sweet promises are tangled
in the web of past lies.
your gentle kiss, a storm.
I panic. I retreat.
I hide, alone, and weep:

all the dreams and hopes
that got me through
are here before me now,
but my fingers crumble like dry clay
as I touch them.
this freedom isn't real
because I do not exist.
the walls and chains are gone
but the prison,
where I died,
remains.
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 1 (view)
 
Sonnet XIII - For My Queen
Posted: 11/27/2007 5:07:36 AM
Sonnet XIII - For My Queen
by Kevin Ranville

Will you be by my side through all my wars,
not giving up until we have prevailed?
Will you pursue my dreams like they were yours?
Will you still stand by me when I have failed?
Do you believe in all that I can be?
Will you come help me grasp what I can't reach?
Will you become the footprints under me,
and carry me along life's darkest beach?
Will you come lie with me when I am cold,
and hold me in the night when I'm afraid?
Will you still be there when I'm grey and old?
Did God send you to grant the prayer I prayed?
   Come join your heart with mine and make me whole;
   please promise me these things and claim my soul.
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 1 (view)
 
Sonnet XII - Ascension
Posted: 11/15/2007 6:48:09 PM
Sonnet XII - Ascension
by Kevin Ranville

I rest tonight in dreams of loving you
where touch is not enough to fan the flame.
It dulls you and denies what's really true:
In perfect love, two souls become the same.
When love is separated from itself
behind a wall of flesh and fear and doubt,
then all I am is set upon a shelf,
a treasure chest that feels inside out.
For truer than the pleasure of my skin
is dying to the will to be apart,
and breaking through the flesh where I begin
you rise into the heaven of my heart.
The ending of ourselves we shouldn't mourn.
A universe of love is being born.
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 1 (view)
 
Sonnet X - Scattered Seeds
Posted: 11/9/2007 9:17:08 AM
Sonnet X: Scattered Seeds
by Kevin Ranville

I know a girl who scatters love like seeds,
searching for a patch of fertile ground,
but flowers cannot grow among the weeds
and so far she has sown where weeds abound.
An angel sweet as her should never crawl,
but selfish souls have torn her wings apart.
She's given love and that's no fault at all
but too much giving drains a fragile heart
How weary, worn, and wounded she's become
in searching for someone to make her whole.
Yet like a rich man begging for a crumb,
she's blind to all the beauty in her soul.
But he who finally helps her love to grow
will feel more joy than he can ever know.
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 2 (view)
 
Getting to know you...
Posted: 10/30/2007 8:07:32 PM
Hello, fellow Winnipegger.

I tend to stick with the open-ended questions. I hate asking something and getting awkward yes-no answers and then sitting there through silence.

Of course I usually tend to get to know a person over MSN for a week or so before actually meeting them in person. At least then you're not going in complete cold like it's a job interview or something.

-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 35 (view)
 
shouldnt friends be there no matter what??
Posted: 10/30/2007 2:11:28 PM
It's worse when you're best of friends for years, sharing every intimate secret with one another, until you fall madly in love, and then because of some complicated issues the relationship breaks up and suddenly you've lost your best friend in the world too.

Consider yourself lucky that you've only lost a casual chat buddy. It still hurts the same way I guess, but it could have been much worse.

When someone rejects you for a mistake without giving you the benefit of the doubt, it usually says more about them than about you. Don't let it get you down about yourself.

-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 22 (view)
 
Mind games
Posted: 10/30/2007 2:03:16 PM
So basically your ego is on the ropes, right? You're asking yourself what's wrong with me? Why doesn't she like me, flirt with me? I know exactly how you feel. But once you look at the real issue behind it, it becomes much easier to deal with.

The real issue is that you need to find a woman who genuinely likes you, is interested in you, can't get enough of you. You're just blinded right now, and maybe feeling like that'll never happen with anyone else, because you like this girl so much. But they're out there, the good ones. Keep your chin up. Keep your eyes open. Work hard to be the kind of person your dream lover would absolutely adore.

Take it easy, man. Have a good one.

-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 13 (view)
 
When does someone you're seeing turn into your boy/girlfriend?
Posted: 10/30/2007 1:52:38 PM
Doesn't it basically happen when one or the other officially asks their partner to be their girlfriend/boyfriend and all that implies? exclusive commitment to each other, etc.

Basically once you sit down and say "I'm in love with you. Will you be mine?" and if they say yes, then it's on. Or is that too old fashioned?

-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 22 (view)
 
Stating the obvious in a profile
Posted: 10/30/2007 1:47:42 PM
I get a kick out of the profiles that are just a big list of what the person *doesn't* want. Nothing about who they are, what they're offering, why you should contact them. Just a big list of reasons to stay away from them.

-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 34 (view)
 
Virgins?
Posted: 10/30/2007 1:42:15 PM
Gather ye rosebuds while ye may.
Old time is still a-flying.
And this same flower that smiles today
Tomorrow will be dying.

I'm with the poster who said if you genuinely like the person, it's irrelevant. If you're a secure person, and he/she is a secure person, then it's pretty much just a matter of just enjoying each other, regardless of experience or lack of it.

If either of you are insecure, it makes a big difference.

My two cents.

-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 76 (view)
 
Good medicine...listen to this song
Posted: 10/28/2007 6:25:07 PM
Well, it's been a couple days without contact, and man I gotta tell ya. It's rough. The worst part about it is that I know darn well what my brain and heart are doing to me, just trying to find every little excuse to call, text, send one more last email, just to see how she's doing. My heart is just wondering if she's missing me over there. I know she misses me. I know she cares for me. This is the whole reason we've cut off contact. Because we still have feelings for one another, and the friendship was just getting mangled by all the anxiety and pain. But somehow just knowing it in theory is not enough.

On the bright side, after we've been apart for a while, when we do run into one another somewhere it'll be 1000 times sweeter, when time has healed the hurts and refined our feelings for one another to gold. Either that or we'll meet and just sort of smile and shrug and wonder what the big deal was all along. I'm hoping for the former of course. But who knows.

Now it's just a matter of getting through the days.

Yes, I know I'm just rambling here, thinking out loud. Feel free to completely ignore me. I'm just trying to get these thoughts out of my head.

Thank you to everyone who took the time to encourage me. It's been a challenging week to say the least.

-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 33 (view)
 
What happens when you're finally over it?
Posted: 10/26/2007 10:33:28 AM
The best metaphor I can think of is losing a body part. First you're in agony, then in steady intense pain, then in general ache. You feel loss. You hurt. But you're slowly healing at the same time. Then it's just a matter of getting used to not having that part of you anymore.

When you finally realize once and for all that you're gonna be okay, in spite of the loss, that you can still go on and be who you are, and love that person, even with the flaws, I think that's when you're really over it. There may still be some pain at that point, and sadness, but overall, you've come to accept yourself as healed and functional again.

-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 66 (view)
 
Good medicine...listen to this song
Posted: 10/26/2007 10:16:50 AM
It's alright, people. It's over now. I just sent her a goodbye email. I told myself I want her to be happy, even if it means letting her go if that's what she needs, and she told me that's what she needs, so I'm doing it. I can't give her what she needs until I take care of myself. It's obvious. I just didn't want to accept it. And things were only dragging out more painfully.

Thank you to everyone who wrote to kindly and compassionately offer me helpful and constructive advice. I appreciate it immensely. There was this din in the background of people shouting just to hear themselves talk, but I got the messages the decent people were trying to convey. Thank you. As for the trolls, the healers with no love, well we all reap what we sow in the end. I'm not hurt by them. Bigger things to worry about here.

So now it's some soul-searching for me, some quality time with friends and family, and getting back to being all the things they all love about me in the first place. It's time for good music, good laughs, and good memories. I know things work out for the best. I know God's got my back no matter what happens. I know I have the courage and strength to get through anything life throws at me. It's already a tougher ride than I could have ever imagined, not just with love, but with my entire world... and I'm still here. I thank God for my problems though actually. They're just a mirror through which he's shown me how strong and beautiful I can be, and where I still need to improve.

Take care, all.

-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 60 (view)
 
Good medicine for healing hearts
Posted: 10/25/2007 10:46:18 PM

ok, op, it's time you heeded your own words - stop the attention/pity seeking threads you have been writing pretty much for a week non -stop now. please.


The only threads I get defensive about are the ones who just attack me, throwing presumptions at me about the situation, and as soon as I stand up to say that's not how it is, I'm in denial. I went from simply asking a question to suddenly being some kind of Woman-beating man-child who should be locked away from the public until I've gotten professional help.

My god, do you people listen to yourselves?

I always respected your responses Angel, but now you've just become another one of the knee-jerk attackers. Yes, you can say I'm just being defensive, I'm in denial, or whatever, but I honestly know your assessment of me is wrong. What can I do to prove it? Nothing. But there's a little thing in polite society known as being civil and giving people the benefit of the doubt, listening to what they have to say and responding in a helpful way if you can.

This thread degenerated into a pitiful witch hunt. It's shameful. The loonies outnumbered the civil people by far, and were it not for the few nuggets of good advice, I'd have requested this entire thread be deleted, or at least locked. This is a ridiculous way for adults to act, and without proper moderation of the trolls and flamers this entire forum will degenerate into nonsense no matter what topics are started. All I can do is roll my eyes, and shake my head at how vindictive people can be to someone they don't even know.

Can we get some decent moderation in this place? Kick/ban some people. I came for advice, just to talk to people, and got sh1t all over. Have a nice day all. This thread is done as far as I'm concerned.
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 40 (view)
 
Your voodoo is hoodoo
Posted: 10/25/2007 11:39:22 AM

everybody please google empathy. it isnt sympathy it is something completely diffrent!


I would hope that everyone reading this is more interested in my original post than your need to make me look like an ***hole, and vindicate your knee-jerk assessment of me.

If you were truly empathetic you would be a little more gracious to me in my time of hurt. Others have. You're just attacking.

Why am I even still talking to you? Because you made me feel bad about myself, unfairly, and for some reason I feel the need to defend myself, even though it's pointless. Perhaps this is a lesson I need in my emotional growth as well. I need the serenity to accept the things I can't change, while fighting to change what I can. And I apparently need the wisdom to know the difference. -sigh-

-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 39 (view)
 
Your voodoo is hoodoo
Posted: 10/25/2007 11:28:59 AM

to be an em-path is to feel the pain of another . this person is not in pain. His wife is in pain and striving hard to cope with this situation where she is being tormented .. I feel her pain not his... He is manipulating this situation wholly. and yes he does need nurturing. Which is why he does this to her. He needs her.. YET HIS NEEDS ARE NOT GREATER THAN HERS, She is crying out hard for help she is being mentally abused. HE is not of greater importance in what I feel here. she is... He needs to heal she told him this. He needs professional help and I can feel her crying and hurting.. He wants want wants more. I am being cruel to him . he needs me to be... That is me working.. he needs help and he needs people to tell him .. NOT NURTURE HIM... I feel I'm channeling now.. this is not from me.. Please trust me on this . this man needs professional help..


First of all, it's not my ex-wife I've been talking about, that was just another assumption you made, and it just proves that you never really read anything I said, except to look for things to attack me with.

Second of all, my pain is greater than my ex-gf's right now. I've got way more problems and crap going on right now, far too many to even list, and this is why she spent so long trying to care for me and help me. Even she's said this. I'm not saying she wasn't hurt. In fact that was the first thing I said in the post, that she was hurt and needs to be healed, and I wanted to help her.

But somehow, you're in some delusional little world where you apparently think you're a psychic or something and you know all about how it is. I think you'd do much better at helping people if you got your head out of your own little world and actually listened. LISTEN to people. How can you help somebody if you don't have any idea what the problem really is and just go on the warpath? No. You're not out to help anyone. You just want to be "right" and show everyone what an ***hole I am and how "wise" and insightful you are.

@ all others: I guess I need to learn to listen more too. I had my head in the clouds as well, and didn't see how much she loved me and needed me to love her back. I was overwhelmed by my problems and just wasn't ready to maybe. Like I said, I guess maybe it was bad timing. Talking this through, even arguing with a troll has helped me see this.

-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 36 (view)
 
Your voodoo is hoodoo
Posted: 10/25/2007 11:12:08 AM

Not something I can be sure about, of course, but people do come back to me and tell me how their thinking shifted as time passed, even when they originally dismissed me and what I had to say.


I do see that your point was not to just attack me for the sake of attacking me. I apologize for my response, and i've put in a request for it to be deleted. One of the things I'm working on is trying to think things through when I'm upset, before saying the wrong thing. Sorry for the offense. Though your tone was harsh, I suppose you were just trying to help. The things you said just weren't true though, and I got mad.

This relationship just ended for me a couple weeks ago. It's been a hellacious couple of weeks, and emotional rollercoaster. I hope you understand I was just reacting without thinking.

Peace.

-Kevin

PS. As for star, she just went straight to the worst case scenario about me, and wouldn't hear otherwise no matter what I said. I suppose I should give her the benefit of the doubt, that maybe she's just in a bad mood, but it doesn't seem like it. She just seems mean and heartless and very bent on making people think I'm some sort of monster. Intelligent people can see the truth, I hope.
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 34 (view)
 
Your voodoo is hoodoo
Posted: 10/25/2007 11:01:38 AM

OT. Kevnar, I reckon you are missing this woman's nurturing spirit and she was in your life at a time when you sound like you desperately needed nurturing which is fine if you also balance things by "being there" for her which evidently you weren't. Ask yourself the hard questions. Are you really 'in love' with her or do you love and miss her nurturing? Either way, it seems she wants to move on and I think she is telling you to do the same just not in so many words.


Yes, I do miss the nurturing very badly. But I also know that I do truly love her. When I stepped back to see what I've lost I realized that she was someone who is giving, kind, compassionate, intelligent, sexy, selfless, and caring--everything I've ever wanted in a woman, everything that lines up with my definitions of true love. Now I'm filled with regret that I didn't see it in time. I lost her.

I really do need to let her go, to heal myself, and let her heart rest from the burden of seeing me through my hard times. I honestly believe that there is love for me in her heart, that I am genuinely a loveable person. I just have to walk away, take care of my own issues, and give her time to remember everything she once saw in me, or at least heal so she can move on to someone else.

It's just so hard to let your best friend go in your darkest hour, you know?

-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 32 (view)
 
Your voodoo is hoodoo
Posted: 10/25/2007 10:53:41 AM
@Star: I admit I was wrong when I said that about him. I felt like I was being attacked by a troll who didn't even listen to what I said. I put in a request for that post to be deleted.

But still you're being very manipulative and twisting my words around, ironically saying how good I am at all this, as if I'm some sort of diabolical genius bent on duping helpless forum users into giving me advice. Whatever it is you think you've figured out about me, you're wrong. I know you're wrong, and I wonder how many others you've manipulated into feeling stupid, and mean, and useless, all under the guise of trying to help people.

It's just plain wrong, and I honestly hope those who are watching both of us can see that you're being hurtful and manipulative to a guy who just came in here looking for advice. I can't win against you, and I'm not going to try. You've already made up your mind about me, so what's the point in discussing it further?

All I wanted was advice, the kind Crash offered, and a few others. You are poison, possibly the most intelligent troll I've ever met, but a troll nevertheless. I'm sorry I've even dignified your first post with a response.

-kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 28 (view)
 
Good medicine for healing hearts
Posted: 10/25/2007 10:27:18 AM

Oh and just to add since you attempted to also send out warnings to women about a guy who didn't agree with you....

WOMEN AVOID THIS MAN HE IS DANGEROUS!
Regards. Catherine aka star.


Wow. What a healer you are. You're so selective in the quotes you pull from me. You just want to pigeon hole me into your original presumption. You just want to be "right". You're not interested in helping me. You're just trying to "win". Ooh. Score points. Warn women away from me.

I don't want anyone else, so save it. And save your psuedo intellectual psychobabble. You're a mean person who knows nothing about me, and attacks me about things that are in reality not true at all. And you're trying to claim to be some sort of healer.

I'll listen to guys like Crash and others, who actually listen to what I'm saying before offering helpful comments and advice. As far as I'm concerned, you're nothing more than a well-spoken troll, who's too full of herself to really listen when someone's genuinely looking for advice.

I'd warn people away from you, but any intelligent people out there can see for themselves that you're just a talking head with nothing really helpful to say.

Nuff said.

-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 27 (view)
 
Your voodoo is hoodoo
Posted: 10/25/2007 10:16:39 AM

....while being carefull not to tugg on the new shoots of the plants whose growth you think should be growing faster...


Yes. Indeed. One of the problems she and I have talked about, and my friends have told me about is that I need to love myself more. How can I accept all the love she offers if I don't even feel deep down worthy of her? In hindsight it seems so obvious. I kept her at an arm's length in spite of all her love for me, because I just didn't feel worthy. I even went so far as to tell her that she should find someone who deserves all the love she has to offer. Ouch. She took that as me not wanting her unfortunately. Trying to wriggle my way out of her love. I guess maybe it was, but I honestly did want to love her, cherish her, be there for her in every way. I just gotta do the same things for myself, in spite of the mess I've made of my life. It's hard to face these things, but nothing changes until you do. I'm just sorry she got hurt and I want to make things better. I gotta let go of my selfish need to cling to her like a security blanket while I work on my issues, because it always turns into me clinging to her instead of dealing with them, using her love to hide inside and pretend everything's okay. I just gotta let go. I think she knows this and she hopes the best for me.

But I'm talking in circles now. Back to cleaning my kitchen and meditating on everything.

Thanks again.

-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 23 (view)
 
Good medicine for healing hearts
Posted: 10/25/2007 10:00:48 AM

kevnar I am a spiritual healer. Studying in quantum physics and healing. take my advice you are making a fool of yourself with your lies. I feel a liar and a person who has little respect for people who say things that you dont want to hear... RING ANY BELLS? Yes you did disrespect your wife didn't you? she didn't agree with you poor woman. You are looking for attention . NOT ATTEMPTING TO HELP YOUR EX HEAL. Oh and if you want references from grateful people who have accepted my advice and have great respect for my work.... please just ask.


Please read all of my posts again, and maybe you'll see where your assumptions about me are wrong. It's unbecoming of a spiritual healer to tell people what their problem is, rather than listening, helping, and guiding. It's unbecoming to take jabs, and get into name-calling. It's unbecoming to pat yourself on the back and toot your own horn and proffer references. It makes you just sound like a massive ball of ego who's supposedly got everything and everyone all figured out and wants to tell them how it is because they're all so stupid compared to you.

I don't need references. I've already seen the quality of your "healing work". We're all learning though. Maybe you'll do better in the future. Maybe you're just in a bad mood, just like me. Oh wait. I just remembered. I was in a good mood until your callous jabs pissed me off. Thanks for that. I'll feel better later though. So no worries.

Take care.

-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 18 (view)
 
Good medicine for healing hearts
Posted: 10/25/2007 9:25:50 AM

to me this says......there's no chance. If a woman wants to be with you, she will be trying to work through things with you now. Us women are notorious for wanting to "stay friends" with our exes and honestly thats what I think she is saying.


Well she and I have been talking extensively about what the situation is, what happened, what I did to hurt her, what I did that made her love me in the first place, how we honestly need each other as friends, if nothing else. I believe there is still hope.

The missing piece of this puzzle is that I've been having some personal life issues, around health, debt, a separation from my ex a few years back, on-going divorce issues, and this woman has been there with me through it all, loving me, caring for me, encouraging me, helping me to feel like I wasn't a total loser. And I loved her for it with all my heart, but instead of taking her, making her my girlfriend, and loving her desperately like she wanted me to, I got caught up in dealing with my issues, maybe wallowing in them a little too long as well. Now she's moving on so I can finally focus on these things without being distracted by her, but I guess I want her back. I want her by my side while I fight through these things.

It's too late now though. For now anyway. Who knows what the future holds.

And no, it's not about me dominating her, or not dominating her, or abusing her, or cheating, or being a player, or screwing her over just to be selfish and using her. I guess it was just bad timing overall.

As Crash said, she loved me once. Once these issues of mine are on track, she may love me again. If it was meant to be, it will be. I was just wanting to know if there was anything I could do to help her heal in the mean time.

Is that clear enough for the trolls? Oh well. You gotta be brave when you post in these forums. But the nuggets of wisdom you get make it worth it.

-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 17 (view)
 
Your voodoo is hoodoo
Posted: 10/25/2007 9:10:12 AM

P.S.. You didn't dominate her enough???? pleeaaaaseeeee get help. NOW! YOUR LOOKING FOR SYMPATHY BY CREATING MORE LIES. HOW DID YOU AND YOUR FRIEND BOTH DO THE SAME THING TOGETHER TO HURT TWO WOMEN THEN YOU SAY IT WAS MERELEY THAT YOU DIDNT PAY HER ENOUGH ATTENTION...
I suggest that you are a compulsive liar attempting to gain attention.


Once again, assumptions, assumptions, assumptions. Just walk away, okay? You're contributing nothing here. Go hate on the ***holes who have hurt you in the past and leave me alone. I have nothing to do with that.

Thanks.

-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 16 (view)
 
Your voodoo is hoodoo
Posted: 10/25/2007 9:06:45 AM

This is what I was getting at but failed to communicate. You can't "get" her to love you again. Did you "get" her to love you in the first place or did she just do it? If you try to better yourself with that motive then your not even going to be yourself because you have a motive.


Thanks, Crash. You seem to be one of the few people who are actually hearing what I'm saying. That's probably the best advice I've heard so far out of this whole mess.

Thanks for that. I think the best thing I can do, is to just let go, just be her friend, and overcome my situation here, develop all the things she says she loves about me, and just be an awesome person, for whoever. And the love we had was meant to be, it'll happen like sunshine and rain on seeded garden. I just gotta pull out all the weeds.

-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 15 (view)
 
Your voodoo is hoodoo
Posted: 10/25/2007 9:02:14 AM

I agree with shieldvulf These women have been hurt . They are the ones that are now going to have to deal with the lies they have been told. Its they who have to now deal with the questions of why you hurt them and how they are ever going to be able to ever trust you again. Them that will be filled with thoughts of whatever it was you did...
This has nothing to do with you healing yourselves... You have not been hurt they have. It dosent matter what you want right now its what they are prepared to forgive and if, and now you write your problems about THEM not taking YOU back ON A DATING SITE??????? what are you here for exactly??? I have just read your profile.. Shall I tell you the first thing you need to do if you want her back??? Get your stupid arse off here... I dont believe You are working on yourself at all. I think that you are looking for sympathy which you do not deserve. You cannot enforce yourselves back upon people after YOU have caused them pain and mistrust.
No respect. Catherine aka star.


I think you are just bitter. It's plainly written on my profile that I'm only looking for friends at this time. I'm just here for the forums.

Like Shieldvulf, you're filtering what I'm saying through your own experiences and making a bunch of assumptions about me that have nothing to do with reality. You two would probably get along great.

As I've said, I never deliberately hurt her or abused her. I'm not a player or a creep or an ***hole. i just didn't return her love like I should have. I was just too blinded by my own life situation to appreciate her properly. We both need time to heal. Even she's said this.

What are you doing here, bashing people's posts who are simply asking for help? If you don't have anything constructive to say, you should probably just leave people alone.

Nuff said.

-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 10 (view)
 
Good medicine for healing hearts
Posted: 10/25/2007 8:36:06 AM

Insofar as your exes, you cannot "help them to get better". That is their own journey. You are not her rescuer. That statement rings of controlling behaviors, BTW. Is that what she complained about, that she felt you dominated her?


The problem was probably the opposite. I didn't dominate her enough. I let myself get overwhelmed in my life issues and sort of put her on the shelf, after she did everything for me. It's painful to realize your mistakes have made you lose such a wonderful woman, but we are still very dear friends. Time will heal and we'll always have that.

Sounds to me like I'm still in the bargaining phase of grieving. Ya think?

-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 8 (view)
 
Your voodoo is hoodoo
Posted: 10/25/2007 8:32:01 AM
Yes, you're right. And I know I did hurt her feelings a few times really badly. I wrote her a big email explaining it to her, in detail, that I understand how I hurt her. It was mostly about not appreciating how much she was doing for me though. The guy above was making it seem like I was smacking her around or something, and it wasn't like that at all. Sorry if I sounded defensive. I know I have faults. I know I hurt her.

The point is, I want to do everything I can to make things better, for the future, no matter what that future holds. I just need advice, that's all.

-kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 5 (view)
 
Your voodoo is hoodoo
Posted: 10/25/2007 8:13:14 AM

OPie, you can't even put whatever you did into words, not even in this anonymous forum. That suggests to me that you are not facing the damage you did, let alone the character flaws that allowed you to do it.

It also makes it easier for you to pose your question the way you do, as if the women you hurt are the ones who need fixing. How can you help them? Give me a break. What you can do is get some help fixing yourselves. Put out of your heads the idea that these women - who are clearly strong and smart enough to question your bullshit - need anything from you.

Not clear enough? OK, you fvcked up; they didn't. You have the problem; they don't. It is arrogant beyond belief for you to presume to "heal" them. Deal with your ridiculous self-importance and leave those women alone. You are the ones who could use help, and plenty of it.

Chores!


Take note of this guy ladies. He's one you want to avoid. He doesn't listen when someone's talking. He puts words in their mouth, thoughts in their head, and attacks them when their down, without compassion or understanding, someone he doesn't even know, probably just to make himself feel clever.

I hurt this girl by simply not grabbing her and loving her as hard as I should have, when I should have, when she did everything for me. I sat by and watched her love me and did nothing to show her I felt the same way, even though I did.

I never abused her, lied to her, or purposely did anything to make her feel crappy. I was just a flawed person and my flaws hurt her. I sincerely love her and I sincerely want everything to be okay for her, but part of this healing she needs is seeing me doing well, because she still loves me as a friend. If I have to let her go, I'm fully prepared to do that for her happiness. But the ideal is to help her heal so she can love me again, because we both believe I am a great guy, and very loveable, once time has healed the wounds.

I was just asking what else I could do to help her heal. Presumptions and jabs only make you look like an idiot, buddy. Next time listen to what people are really saying. You don't know everything. Make sure you find out what's going on in a situation before you speak.

-kevin

PS. Apologies, if I've just fed a troll. I'm just pissed off that pricks like this aren't banned.
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 31 (view)
 
He doesn't see me as his girlfriend, don't know what to do now
Posted: 10/25/2007 7:29:12 AM
OP:

I went through a very similar experience from the opposite side. I was the guy who was a dolt and didn't see what a good thing I had. I wasn't cheating on her or lying to her or anything, but I was aloof, too busy navel gazing my own life situation to realize how good she was taking care of me all along. Now she's gone and suddenly I'm broken hearted.

I really did love her all along and told her so, it just didn't always translate into believeable actions, and that's really the key.

So I guess my point is, sometimes the guy is a player, sometimes he's a lying ass rat. But sometimes he's just like me, waiting until he feels like he actually has something to offer before he can make you his own, and not realizing he had what she really wanted all along... his heart.



-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 1 (view)
 
Good medicine for healing hearts
Posted: 10/25/2007 7:21:17 AM
My friend and I are going through very similar break-ups right now and we were sharing our stories with each other. Turns out we were both dumped for not treating the girl the way we should. We both hope to get them back someday, and both women have said there might be a chance after a long period of healing. Sure things may never get better, but there is some hope.

So now our question is, what else can we do to help them heal? The time thing is obvious. Just wait. Just give it time. That goes without saying. But is there anything else we can do while we're waiting, to help their hearts get better. Here's what we have done and are doing so far:

Both of us have admitted we were very sorry for the way things went, truly, deeply sorry for the hurt that happened. That helps to heal, when you take responsibility for your actions and stop making excuses and dodging.

Both of us are trying our best to improve ourselves during this alone time. Looking deep into the character issues that caused the trouble in the first place, opening up to friends and family and trying to make improvements where we can. Not for the sake of the relationship, but just for the sake of being better people for the ones who still are in our lives. Now, we're not monsters or anything, but we all have things we could improve, right?

So what else do we do? How do we help them to get better besides these main things... and a whole lot of time? I'm basically asking the people out there who have been hurt badly, and who did eventually go back to a better relationship in the long run. How did the person do it? How did they convince you that things were gonna be okay, that your heart was safe again?

Thanks for your help.

-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 3 (view)
 
Shoulds
Posted: 10/22/2007 6:38:10 PM
It's not my best work. It's kind of Hallmark-sounding, but I like the sentiment at the end.

Thanks for the comment.

-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 1 (view)
 
Shoulds
Posted: 10/22/2007 3:31:50 PM
Shoulds
by Kevin Ranville

I should have danced with you
I should have held you tight
I should have told you that I loved you
I should have held you every night

I should have learned my lesson
When the tears fell from your eyes
I should have seen love dying
but I hid inside my lies

I should have sent you flowers
I should have poured you wine
I should have left you love notes
I should have made you mine

You never asked for much from me
Just the smallest little clue
That everything you did for me
Was finally getting through

I should have told you you're amazing
I should have shown the world
I should have written this so long ago
I should have told them you're my girl

But it was always my own self
I focused on the most
My issues, needs and hang-ups
My skeletons and ghosts

I should have stopped to kiss you
I should have, every day
I should have made you feel loved
I could have made you stay

Your love is so amazing
and now I finally see
The most selfish thing I could have done
was love you perfectly
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 8 (view)
 
So what is it like to have somebody love you?
Posted: 10/21/2007 10:09:03 AM
Love is the feeling of total security, that no matter what you do, no matter how flawed you are as a human being, there's always at least one person who believes in you, wants to take care of you, wants to be proud of you, wants to have you by there side, who will never give up on you no matter what it costs them. There's at least one person who needs you in return, who believes you're someone who can take care of her, who wants to feel the security that you've got her back no matter what, and that she can grow and change and be who she is, shine and make you proud. She believes you're strong enough to see past her flaws and failures, knowing they are not part of who she is, no more than weeds are part of a garden. They're just work to do.

And love is the feeling of total overwhelming attraction to someone, where you can just look at her and have your heart beat faster and your lusts stir and your tummy go all acrobatic. It's the feeling of security of knowing that she's all the pleasure you'll ever need, and you are hers in return.

Love is not only feeling truly sorry for any hurts you cause your lover, but also truly fighting to make a change, no matter what it costs you.

Be thankful for every hard time you'll ever have in your life. Hard times are the canvas on which the life projects the ones who truly love you, the ones who believe in you, the ones who will never give up no matter what. Heroes are invisible when all is well. When things are a mess, they're the only ones you see. Without hard times, you would never have had the joy of being shown what true love really is.

-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 68 (view)
 
Don't Know What You Got....Till It's Gone
Posted: 10/21/2007 9:50:42 AM
Ask yourself why it is you took them for granted. It could be that you loved and appreciated them just fine, but just couldn't show it for whatever reason.

Same thing happened to me just this week. A woman I love beyond all words recently left me for another guy. She tried loving me with all her heart and found herself banging up against a cold stone wall. I loved her dearly, told her all the time how much she meant to me, but the little things I said and did and didn't do were always telling a different story. I just wasn't ready to give myself to her fully because I had nothing to give. I have issues of my own I have to deal with before I can give myself away to anyone else. So now I'm doing that, and hoping I haven't lost the angel who gave me everything a man could ever ask for all through the darkest days of my life, and got so very little in return. She doesn't love this other guy yet, like she loved me, it's only been a few weeks with him, but she may yet. It may be over forever, but it's nobody's fault. It was just a bad time.

On the other hand, this may be just the beginning of the most beautiful love two people ever had, because if we're able to overcome this, then there's nothing we won't be able to get through in the future.

Find out for yourself, whether you're even able to love a man like you need to. Look into some counselling and dig through the closets of your heart for any emotional blocks and hang-ups that might prevent the man of your dreams from being welcomed into you heart fully.

Take care of yourself in this hard time.

-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 26 (view)
 
What do you do if your date is sleeping with someone else?
Posted: 10/21/2007 9:40:11 AM
How much do you know about this other girl he's with and their history together? Could be she's a dear friend to him where they have a lot of history together, as opposed to just some casual fling he's having. If it's just some casual fling then yeah, I'd be grossed out too. But if there's history there, I could understand if not accept it.

Have the talk and see where it goes.
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 43 (view)
 
Staying friends
Posted: 10/20/2007 5:04:59 PM
Ironically, the thing that's making this the hardest of all is that it wasn't a bitter break-up. If it was mean and bitter and unfair and ugly, I'd have a much easier time letting go. But because neither of us is really angry about it, just very sad, it's harder to believe that it's even really over.

The good news is, I've gone the whole day without calling, texting, or emailing. A couple more weeks of this and it may become easy to get through a day. The other good news is I noticed a couple of women checking me out today as I was running errands. Took me a moment to realize what was happening, but when I finally realized it I felt like the world wasn't really over after all. Not that I'd go diving into any rebound affair. It's just nice to not feel like a total reject for a few minutes.

-kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 41 (view)
 
Staying friends
Posted: 10/20/2007 12:53:43 PM
PS. I sent her the goodbye my friend email this morning. Thanks again.
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 40 (view)
 
Staying friends
Posted: 10/20/2007 12:51:50 PM
Excellent points, Shoree. Thanks for the advice. She said a lot of the same stuff you did.

I'm in the stage now of finally trying to go cold turkey on contact. For the first five days I was calling, emailing, and texting her, meeting her for lunch and trying to talk through things, trying to figure out what went wrong and what to do next. Now I'm just gonna take a break, cut things down to a quick hello every few days and let it go at that. Gradually I'll be able to see her as a great friend and be happy for her.

But oh this cold turkey stuff is maddening. You should see the cleaning I've done on my place today.
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 32 (view)
 
Staying friends
Posted: 10/20/2007 6:03:38 AM
The forgotten people in all of this are the ones who have the misfortune of being caught between two people who can't or won't put the past behind them.....your past is behind you and you meet someone who's past is not behind them and you wind up competing with history,experiences,ect,it would be great if these people would warn you....they seldom do...it is a bitter and painful experience and that is being polite about it....the only thing i would say is at least have the decency to warn others.


Nobody's perfect. There's always two sides at some degree of fault in a break-up. Except in the worst cases of abuse I suppose, but generally there's always two sides to the story. Both sides should accept some blame, if fault truly exists. And on the flip side of that one, one shouldn't blame themselves unduly for things that weren't their fault.

I know this lady of mine wasn't a perfect angel. She has many faults, just like anyone. And that just reinforces the idea that this just wasn't the right time for us. There were things we just couldn't work through. The hurts I caused her weren't even necessarily my fault, things I couldn't help. Many were, but not all. I suppose it just wasn't the right time, and that helps in being able to heal. I'm not the awful a*ssh*le I've been thinking I was. I've got things to deal with, but I never mistreated her, never abused her, never deliberately hurt her feelings. I just didn't take care of her like I should have, didn't honour her for loving me so well like I should have. It was mostly bad timing. The future changes.
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 27 (view)
 
Staying friends
Posted: 10/20/2007 3:04:22 AM
Thank you so much for the replies so far, especially Lola, Mary, and Angel. Your insights are incredibly helpful. You apparently have a gift for hearing what people are really saying.

A few things are for sure: I definitely need to take a break from her and focus on my own issues. This is one of the things we talked about for a long while tonight. How can you miss someone if they won't go away, right? Our relationship just ended last Sunday though, so the wounds are still pretty much brand new. I'm barely over the initial shock of it yet. I can barely go ten minutes without wanting to talk to her, hug her, kiss her, tell her how wonderful she is. She's been very patient with me so far, but her patience may run out if I test it.

"I believe you really do love me, Kevin. I honestly do, but I like my boyfriend. I'm happy with how things are going. I like having everything new, without any history or issues. This isn't just some scheme to make you jealous. I really like my boyfriend."

"So there's absolutely nothing inside you that still feels like you're making a mistake and throwing away something beautiful, now that I've realized what I've lost and am ready to give you all the things you wanted all along from me?"

"Of course I feel that way. I always will. But we won't know either way until I've had time to heal, to rest, to take a break."

She put the groceries she'd been gathering on the Safeway checkout counter and we went silent for a few minutes. Point taken, my dear friend. Now I just need a little time to get used to not having you, my constant loving angel, there for me when I need you. She was so beautiful right then, just standing there waiting for her turn to pay. I almost cried, right there in the store.

"Look at me." She took my hands. She was so warm. "I will always be your best friend. I can't live without you as my best friend. I couldn't bear it. I just need time."

Then she got up and went back to work. Her lunch break was over. I put my head down on the table we'd been sitting at, and just breathed long and slow for a long time.

Angel's right. Whatever is meant to be will happen whether we want it to or not. But I've always believed we can influence what is meant to be by our own actions and decisions. For example, a person who never exercises can't say their poor fitness was "meant to be". Get up, get moving, and at least increase the potential for the result you desire. In the same way, I can improve the odds of our "someday" by healing my old wounds, improving my situation overall, and getting back to being all those things she originally fell in love with. It is possible her love is gone forever, but I can at least improve the potential for its return. We've always had a bit of a Forest and Jenny Gump vibe to our friendship/romance, and the theme of that movie was make the best with what you've got and let destiny/God do the rest.
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 11 (view)
 
Staying friends
Posted: 10/19/2007 11:42:21 PM

and being that you sound like you yourself are looking for somebody to be a couple with.....


I guess I should also mention, this profile is over 2 years old. I was away from POF for the longest time once she moved to my city and we got closer, and I haven't changed the profile yet when I came back to talk in the forums again.

I got a couple of msg from women and I explained the situation. I just need to update the profile now. It'll be a long while before I can be anything more than friends with another woman.
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 10 (view)
 
Staying friends
Posted: 10/19/2007 11:35:37 PM

However, I find that even though I broke up with him, it is hard for me to hear about his moving on and especially so quickly. I know is not fair or logical to expect them to mourn or react to a break up as you do, but you just wonder how much they really cared about you, if the could move on in the degree that they have so quickly and then anger, resentment, etc. creep in


I did have some anger and resentment and more than a little bitter jealousy at first, but two things calmed me down. a) I realized that yes, she really did love me truly and deeply. She proved it in so many ways. and b) I'm the one that doused her love, not her. I only have myself to blame.
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 7 (view)
 
Staying friends
Posted: 10/19/2007 11:24:53 PM
I had to ask myself ........ WHY - why should a keep allowing her to “still have me” at her convenience.


In our case, our friendship has been going on for years. We've seen one another through the darkest times of our lives with love and support, thousands of hours of chat, emails, phone calls, and letters. We had no secrets at all and eventually fell for one another. I can honestly say I did love her all along, I just didn't show it well, or do enough about it. Her heart broke from my apparent aloofness and she had to tear herself away to escape the pain. When she started to pull away, I realized what I was losing.

Well... a tough lesson for me. All I have now is the "maybe someday", and the deepest envy of this new guy she's seeing, if they wind up getting more serious.

I don't think our friendship will ever be lost. It's just hard to deal with it right now I guess.

PS. God damn that James Blunt is an emotional sadist. That one song of his destroys me every time. :s
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 1 (view)
 

Posted: 10/19/2007 11:07:52 PM
This isn't really about relationships, but I wasn't sure where else to put it. This is the most read forum so I popped it in here.

My question/comment is in regards to people who get all pissy about supposedly redundant threads. If someone has a question, and issue, a story to tell, they're usually going through something challenging. So they open up POF and post a thread about it.

Right away people are jumping all over them, bashing them, flaming them, "Do a topic search!" "This has been discussed to death!" Blah Blah Blah.

Chill out, people! What, is there a limited number of topics that can be posted? Are we gonna run out if people "waste" threads? Why does it annoy you so much? Why can't you just hit the back button and read something else? Why take time out of your day to make someone feel bad whose already feeling bad and that's the reason they posted in the first place?

Now I'll admit the attention/pity seeking threads gotta go, and some of the goofier topics really are redundant. But when someone is actually concerned about something, why bash them for it? When they're upset, they need to talk. They don't want to/ can't stop to do a search through thousands of topics to add their story/question to some other epic thread where it will never get a response.

I don't know. It seems silly to me. Maybe there's a reason for it I'm not seeing, other than just petty irritability and egotistical thread policing. If I'm wrong, let me know. I want to understand. But this apparent callousness really bugs me.

Also note that this isn't in response to anyone attacking my threads. It doesn't really bug me, but I've seen other threads get cut to pieces and it just makes for a less friendly place for all.

-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 21 (view)
 
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander
Posted: 10/19/2007 10:53:03 PM
The best answer is obvious: a decent human being wouldn't do something bad to someone else for any reason. They'd hang onto their dignity, their integrity, and beliefs about how to treat people no matter what's been done to them. Apologize. Forgive. Let it go. Love and care for people. You'll live way longer that way.

The practical answer is that there's not enough decent human beings in the world. The best we can all do is strive for perfection. Nobody's there yet though, and pride, anger, selfishness, and bitterness usually run rampant when feelings are hurt. All you can do is worry about your own conduct (see paragraph 1), and let other people deal with things as they will.

-Kevin
 kevnar
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 1 (view)
 
Staying friends
Posted: 10/19/2007 10:35:39 PM
I'm looking for some thoughts on the issue of staying friends after a break-up, particularly when the decision to end things was not mutual, and particularly when the one leaving is leaving you for another lover very soon/immediately after the break-up.

She and I have been best of friends for years, in and out of love at various times, both long distance and most recently in the same city. We were never really officially a couple, but loved cared and desired each other deeply for the longest time. Recently, due to complications in the relationship, she drifted out of love with me, just as I was falling for her once and for all. Go figure. The next thing you know, she's seeing a new guy.

Now, the knee jerk reaction is going to be that she's a "ho" or whatever and I should forget her, but our history speaks otherwise. She's a decent and beautiful person that I care about deeply as a friend and confidante, so spare the jabs about what a -bleep- she is. She's not. It's just a messed up, complicated situation. She still loves me dearly, just not romantically, and I'm just working on getting over her and letting her go for her ultimate happiness.

Having said that, my issue is, how do you maintain a friendship with a former lover, near soul mate, when things just don't work out in the romance area? How do you stay friends when everything in your heart feels you should have been something more, if only circumstances were different, if only certain mistakes weren't made, feelings trampled? How do you let go of the romantic love and hold on to everything that was beautiful about the friendship? We've already been through the debate about whether or not I should fight to win her back. We talked through it extensively and agreed it's better to let her go with a "maybe someday..." clause added on. It's very painful to hang out with her as a friend and then watch her drive away with someone else, but it's even more painful to not have her in my life at all.

Please share your thoughts, advice, and experiences.

-Kevin

PS. I suppose it's relevant to mention that the "feelings trampled" involved my unwillingness to "sh it or get off the pot" and just commit to her once and for all. As I said, my life was/is complicated and I just left her love hanging out to dry for too long before realizing what a beautiful thing I had in her, once it was too late.
 
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