You are aware that using Wiki as a source is laughable in most cases don't you?.... I use it all the time..but really now... where the hell do you guys pull these stats out from?

as for the blood tests and other tests on newborns... care to share with me what these routine tests are please?...

200,ooo is a lot of kids in an absolute sense, but 4-10% is a small percentage of live births. I just don't understand why it would be necessary to require a DNA test for all kids when there is only a paternity dispute in a small percentage of cases. As is it, people who have doubts have ways of getting the tests done.

Honestly see taking DNA as the begining of Big Brother. They hold on to it and next thing you know employers find out you have a chance in a zillion of getting cancer and so it would cost x more for insurance...nah...DNA testing should be an exception, never a rule.

Let us go back to love and trust, how wonderful would that be? Yeah, I dream. Believe me, I know reality.

But I don't think denial of paternity is so common EVERY child needs an expensive DNA test. It happens often enough, but is still not the norm.

Oppose.
Oppose.
Oppose.
Oppose.
Oppose.

Cap'nB
You KNOW you want to be in the middle of that hug and I for one am FINE with that.

But how like a man to ask for proof, expecting it not to be provided - and then when it is, becoming sarcastic and mocking, enabling him to dismiss so he can continue to admire himself.

Get it old man?

...rights to their own wallet.

Children vs money. Never the twain shall meet for some here.

And I've not seen one post from some of these men in support of using contraception. Why should they? It's not their "pvssy/hole", as they say.

Cindy O.......I have enjoyed reading your posts, but most of all I've enjoyed your wit, humor and intellect, not sure why you haven't found an SO yet, but judging from the POF pool of men here, I myself would only consider about 15% as possible fishies to swim with.

pro-filer:Post #1115.

forumologist:I can respect justice, and recognise what is fair, but I still don't like people to suffer if it serves no purpose.

...you believe them.

daisypetals: Abuse that PRIVILEDGE in any shape or form because the mother/father believes it's her/his right to her/his child to do so is going have severe consequences.

daisypetals:Take the choice away from your son WHO might be responsible and make him have an operation.

Capitano.............Men are NOT equal to women when it comes to reproduction, so until nature hands us all another set of cards, the outcome of this trump game is trumped.

Read the fecking thread, there was a man on here who said, if his choice was not to be a father, she should subject her body to an abortion. Another said, he shouldn't be expected to pay child support if he didn't want to be a father, which is coersing her into abortion or forcing her to adopt out the child if she couldn't afford to keep the child.

When GOD shows up.............some of you are gonna get a really hard spanking.

THIS thread, has in the main, been about mutual responsibility, once a HUMAN life exists, although there have been some who have SEEMED to argue for some kind of "right," for men, to force women to have abortions.

TO all the men out there who have been arguing this point- does it make you feel better to have it acknowledged that its unfair? Or is it simply about the money?

. Instead of directly working on male self-esteem issues, though, they and similar commercials portray their product as "use this and the girls will flock" and the undertones are primarily sexual.

I feel like I need someone to love and do things for.

Its logical its never been heard
Because...
... there is.... no.... case.

And they'd NEVER let it win even if there was an attempt. Public Law over Individual Rights.
^^^
Thats basic Law too

Dubay v. Wells, 06-11016-BC (E.D. Mich. 2006), is a legal case between Matt Dubay and his ex-girlfriend, Lauren Wells, both of Saginaw Township, Michigan. The case, which has been dubbed "Roe v. Wade for Men" by the National Center for Men[1], concerns whether the Michigan Paternity Act violates the United States Constitution's Equal Protection Clause, in that the Act allegedly applies to men but not to women.

forumologist: If men got pregnant, this thread would be entirely different wouldn't it.

WOW!!! Post # 455.

Except...gosh darn it....a few months later there's that baby that has rights...and your election (opt out clause) for walking away becomes no point.

Anyone want to give this a shot? Or does the discussion of what to do about it take us too far away from the general complaining about how unfair it all is?

....especially if you confine yourself to oral sex.

When Oral Sex Results in a Pregnancy: Can Men Ever Escape Paternity Obligations?
By SHERRY F. COLB
Wednesday, Mar. 09, 2005
In a lawsuit against his ex-girlfriend, Richard O. Phillips has alleged that about six years ago, he engaged in oral sex with her. Unbeknownst to Phillips, he says, his girlfriend, Sharon Irons, allegedly saved the resulting semen and used it to inseminate herself. A pregnancy resulted, Irons gave birth to a baby, and DNA tests proved Phillips to be the genetic father.

Though Phillips allegedly did not learn of either the pregnancy or the birth until some time later, a court nonetheless ordered him to pay approximately $800 a month in child support.
....

Yes, they have the easiest situation of the three (mother, baby and father) and they STILL play the victim. Spoiled brats.

Takes TWO to conceive...TWO to argue out whose rights to terminate or absolve all responsibility for that conception are going to be paramount, and if baby is born, it takes TWO to sign the paper for adoption.

Women who date men who earn less than them are like Bigfoot: we've all heard of him, but no-one's ever actually seen him...

The word "hysterectomy" means "to remove hysteria" and the operation was performed ostensibly because it was believed that this was one way to calm a woman down.

jools:needless to say guys, no u dont have equal rights to us women on this matter and probably never will, the authorities will not be doing a u-turn anytime soon is my guess!
but if men were to make a stand against this equality, how would u go about it?
Suggestions please!!!!
and at what point do u relinquish responsability for embryo/Problem?

i dont see any feesible forward solution for you!

I agree; it is part of your job as a parent to tell kids the REALITIES about relationships, kids and women. When your directives are filled with bitterness as opposed to reality, though, that's not good - in my opinion.

Having a positive outlook in life, including towards other people regardless of their gender, contributes to a person's emotional & physical health.

When you tell them that "They'll be smart never to have kids", this sends the message that you think you were stupid to have had them.

Yeah, maybe you don't intend to send these messages. Still, its implied in the "You'd be stupid to ever have kids, because their mother will suck you dry for every dime you have."

Saying "Be careful, take responsibility, think through your options and be prepared - but don't shut yourself off from possible avenues of joy" is a much better message - because as I think you might agree, children are one of the things that do bring joy to us - and, for your information, so are grandchildren. In my opinion, anyway.

and some women rock!

For those people that use their children to hurt the other...shame on your low life azz's ...grrr!

Gosh - if only you'd exercised that option, you wouldn't have to advise your boys of anything.

He's the one telling his sons what a stupid mistake they were. That's all right with you?

Men can store some of their own sperm, and then get a vasectomy.

I know this was written in jest, but it is not untrue, in reality. Since men don't have to have emotion to screw around with someone, I think it's easier for them to rationalize and then cheat. Usually, once you lose a woman emotionally, the relationahip is over, anyway.

Stupid people DO seem to breed faster than more intelligent ones....

I know of one woman where I used to live, on kid number 7 father number 7 does not know who the fathers of the kids are either. But it seems this happens a lot, multiple children in a family where each has a different father, how do you explain to the kids?

Her complaint is that she spent roughly 14 years of her life with this man, he procrastinated on both marriage and children, and in his new relationship they have children a year and a half in.

You could put it this way, or you could stop making it sound like she was at fault and ask it as you should. 'You got tired of waiting on guy number 1, move out and start seeing guy number 2, move in with guy number 2 hoping he'll work out and wonder why guy number one is still flaky after 14+ years?'

into the 6th year i started to talk with a guy i dated in high school and he told me that after 8 years dating and 6 years living together, if he hadn't proposed or shown much interest, he likely didn't want those things. so i slowly lost my mind and in a matter of months, moved out, had high school guy i dated move in with me, i freaked out cuz it was stupid, ex found out and within a week went on POF, met a girl and started up a relationship.

If you don't have feelings for a woman or are mad about something OPEN YOUR MOUTH ! I loathe when a man ignores a woman's messages and phone calls

If you think you are saving our feelings and just HOPING we will fade away it doesn't always work. Some women will not leave you alone until we get an answer or our "closure".

I think this form of behavior is immature, irrational and cowardly !

.i've yet to hear one tell me what the difference is between single mums and single dads.....................Because in fact there isn't one is there .

Why do you think 90% of women call for divorce? Seems most of it is abuse, cheating or something else. People usually don't get divorced just because.

Don't want a divorce, don't beat her, don't control her, and don't frakking cheat....

I don't need a man, I would like to have a man in my life to enhance it, to enhance both of our lives. I think there is a big difference. I think when someone says I need a man or I need a woman b/c they literally need another person in order to be happy (...or ENHANCE it, perhaps?) at all is a red flag.

There are many more single mothers now a days, .. perhaps they'll council their sons to be less judgemental of women's sexuality and more sensitive to the actual character of a woman in general.

Gawwwddddd please oh please I am down on my knees begging you to show me a real man on here. One who has real balls to admit if she was a slut then so was he. Period.

I'm uh...kind of curious, though...what store do you work at, so I can avoid buying any magazines there, if they've all been in the loo with you previously?

start stocking Psychology Today and leaving copies in the can. maybe she'll get the message.

Does Sex Change How you feel ?

I doubt whether any of them would be trying to catch a glimpse of my ass..................

Gentlemen - What are you trying to convey through this gesture?

So you can argue until next century that people must alter their messages in a way such that nobody's baggage can possibly affect their interpretation (not possible) but it's easier just to look for people who will either have the good grace to enquire about your meaning or, better yet, will just 'get you' because they think the same way.

m_church as fab mom said, who are we supposed to ask? Not like they are gonna say ya I cheated in the last relationship.

News flash: The big "O' is a collective effort!

It is not humanly possible to mitigate for everybody else's interpretation. Rather, it is incumbent upon the interpreter to determine whether the interpretation is correct.

Experiment with things so you can get your organism

LOL. I cringe at marriage. Although I hate marriage, I can understand why they want the right. Just make sure to give us gays the right to divorce !!! lol