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 Author Thread: Urban Legends...
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 21 (view)
 
Urban Legends...
Posted: 9/14/2008 11:25:11 AM
I love the ones of freakishy large animals. That spider in Iraq, a dog as large as a horse.. oh and that one of the plane crashing into the towers where it's taken from the inside of the building.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 10 (view)
 
Do you help out people with signs at the end of EXIT RAMPS begging for money?
Posted: 9/8/2008 9:56:09 AM
I have been known to go buy food for the ones with dogs. Dog food that is. Then I found out that the ones who hang out on our exit ramps live in a tent city behind the movie theater with all kinds of amenities. (At least for a homeless person.) My sister met one of them in a bar once. (Not *that* kind of meet, just he was there and she recognized him.) No, I don't give them money. Hell, just last week there was a guy that was standing there at noon when I went by and at 8pm he was STILL there so he must make good money.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 53 (view)
 
Why do women ask...Do I look fat in this?
Posted: 9/5/2008 1:00:42 PM
I have very rarely ever asked this question, and it was never "do I look fat" it's more along the lines of "does this look ok on me" and it's usually when I'm wearing something new that is out of the ordinary for me to wear. However, my husband is very honest (I love that about him) and I know that if I ask, I will get a true answer. If I didn't want a true answer I wouldn't ask. If I do look bad, I'd rather know before I leave the house.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 16 (view)
 
A friend in need?
Posted: 9/3/2008 7:27:46 PM
Well, here's my "dumb comment"-

You are both acting like children. A twenty year friendship gone just like that... over $200 freaking dollars.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 3 (view)
 
tv series-90210
Posted: 9/3/2008 10:13:27 AM
Oh, it will never ever compare to the original. I tried to watch it but missed quite a bit between my kids and husband. I'll give it a chance, but I'll never think of it as "90210".

I was VERY shocked to see Brenda though.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 23 (view)
 
For All of you out there in line of the Hurricane Gustav
Posted: 9/1/2008 11:45:08 AM

The city and the state should be responsible for their levees, not the feds. I'm sure in the past 80 years they could have coughed up enough money to fix/repair or build them. And the levees failing the day after the storm was just one problem, the entire states of LA and MS were hung out to dry after Katrina.


The Army Corps of Engineers is in charge of all levies like this. Whether something should have been done on a city/state level is irrelevant because they CAN'T. They ****ed for years and nothing was done until Katrina. It was a stupid place to build a city in the first place.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 11 (view)
 
For All of you out there in line of the Hurricane Gustav
Posted: 8/31/2008 12:29:39 PM
How big are hurricanes normally? Is that an average size for one of this strength? I'd really like to experience one someday.... a little one though. lol
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 7 (view)
 
For All of you out there in line of the Hurricane Gustav
Posted: 8/31/2008 10:35:07 AM
whothehellknows - It wasn't the city and state that was at fault for the levees failing. They had been requesting federal help for a long, long time and were continually denied or ignored. They knew it was going to happen, but the FEDS didn't care.

Anyway, I read that there are approximately 300,000 people in NOLA and they only have evacuation resources to get 30,000 out of there. Everyone else is expected to get out on their own or take their chances. They say they aren't going to help anyone who stays behind, but I really don't see that happening. I feel badly for the animals that will be left behind.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 11 (view)
 
do u miss the 80's?
Posted: 8/31/2008 9:12:03 AM
I loved the 80's but it was the decade I grew up in. I think everyone probably has fond memories of the decade they grew up in. I love reading those "you know you're a child of the 80's when..." and they list different things like coming home when the street lights came on, Pacman, etc. And the music.... awesome music. Hell, I even love the clothes and hairdos. Bring back those 10ft tall bangs and leg warmers!
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 93 (view)
 
A guy in a old crappy car ?
Posted: 8/30/2008 8:54:31 AM
Some of my best relationships were with men who didn't have nice cars. The couple times I did date guys with nice cars, we spent most of our time in his garage while he worked on said car to make it faster and better. My husband had a crappy car (I thought it was, guys probably wouldn't) and I'm married to him so obviously his freakin car didn't matter.
I do know a lot of young, materialistic b!tches that won't date guys with crappy cars though.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 10 (view)
 
Mother attacks man after attempted assault on daughter
Posted: 8/27/2008 5:51:52 PM

When the mother heard the story, she ran outside, picked up a pipe on the street and confronted her daughter's alleged assailant, a man she said she knew from around the neighbourhood, who was still in the park.


I gathered from this that the daughter told the mother who it was? Maybe?

Was she stabbed first or was she hitting him first and then he stabbed her so she hit him some more?


Mother should have educated her daughter tha tshe shouldn't be near stranger.


Who says she was near a stranger? He could have came up and grabbed her.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 70 (view)
 
Housewife or Professional with Nanny assistance?
Posted: 8/27/2008 2:17:08 PM

Maybe not a break but they can sit down when they want to. All you have to do is sit down to watch your kids I do not have that luxury. Kids also take naps so that is an hour that you do not have them. Going to the store, taking kids to doctors. Does it make your life busy? Sure. Is it hard heck no. I would love to spend a day watching kids instead of going to work.


Not all kids take naps; some stop very early in life. If you've never been a stay at home parent then you don't know if it's "easy" or not. If sitting down is that important to you, then get a job where you sit.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 21 (view)
 
Why is it that most all non drinking profiles are serious christians
Posted: 8/25/2008 6:03:11 PM
^^^^^

OMG that's horrible!! All of it, but your son especially. Were you there? I just couldn't imagine. My heart goes out to you.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 77 (view)
 
ways to fool drug test for pot
Posted: 8/25/2008 4:29:31 PM

Pot stays in your hair for quite a long time, there's absolutely no way to get rid of it


Wrong.



From www.norml.com


HAIR TESTS: An ominous new technology is hair testing, which is supposed to detect drug use for months, or however long one's hair has been growing (Skinheads note: samples can be taken from any part of the body!). While hair tests are highly sensitive to cocaine, their sensitivity to pot is not well established. Not all employers who use hair tests check for marijuana. Hair testing is racially biased against Africans, being much more sensitive to thick, dark hair than to light, fine hair. Although the FDA and scientific community have been critical of hair testing, that hasn't stopped employers from using it. Hair tests may be influenced by shampoo: one test found hair treated with Head & Shoulders® (Fine/Oily), Neutrogena®, and Rave® displayed lower drug concentrations than with Pert® (Oily/Fine) or Prell® (Normal, Normal/Oily).
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 75 (view)
 
ways to fool drug test for pot
Posted: 8/25/2008 4:10:48 PM
People should really educate themselves on shit before just doing it.

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4934
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 18 (view)
 
Why is it that most all non drinking profiles are serious christians
Posted: 8/25/2008 4:06:24 PM
I suppose I am classified as a Christian, but that's not the reason I don't drink. I don't attend church or anything. I don't drink because it gets me into too much trouble.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 105 (view)
 
leashes?
Posted: 8/25/2008 2:07:48 PM

Admit to a lie? No, I wont do that!
Apparently you didnt understand me, I didnt buy the leash....my former father-in-law, got it second-hand. He was the kind of man who bought used first, and new hardly ever.
So how could I have taken back something I had no receipt for? Sheesh give me a break!


Admit to a lie? I said why not just admit that you prefer a leash over a stroller. It's got nothing to do with lying. I didn't misunderstand. One should include information such as "got it secondhand" in the first place. You said he got it "someplace". Any major retail store will exchange without a receipt.


I am sure even the parent's who do use a harness (as it is not a leash it is around the child's neck NO!)


Merriam Webster disagrees.


1 a: a line for leading or restraining an animal b: something that restrains : the state of being restrained
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 96 (view)
 
leashes?
Posted: 8/24/2008 5:47:20 PM

The wrist type leash I used was not bought by me, my former father-in-law got it someplace and knowing him he didnt pay much, anyway....so as to the comment that the leash cost just as much as an umbrella stroller, you are mistaken at least in my case.


Excuses. Why not just admit you wanted the leash and not a stroller? You could have taken the leash back and exchanged it for an umbrella stroller.


In terms of price...I just got a new monkey backpack style (I found what I wanted while shopping online the other day). It was only 8.99 on sale at Target. Yes, that is cheaper than the cheapest of umbrella strollers, and it lasts so much longer!


They're freaking 10 bucks. So you saved a dollar.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 68 (view)
 
Housewife or Professional with Nanny assistance?
Posted: 8/24/2008 8:16:15 AM
Wow.. drug up from 6 months ago by the OP just to tell people to feck off. lol

I would much rather have one income and stay home. And I did. I didn't have kids to dump them off on someone else to raise 40+ hours a week.


Come on it is not hard. Sure you may be busy but that does not make it hard. Plus you can always take a break and sit down if you want to. When you have a job you can not do this. If you want to work hard try doing what I do work in a hot warehouse for 8 hours.


LOL Take a break? Do you get lunch at relatively the same time everyday? Actually, you get it at the same time everyday because you work in a warehouse. When the shift is over, you clock out and go home. Stay at home parents don't get that. They don't get set break times and a chance to clock out at 5pm. They don't get a couple days off a week.

The misconception is that "housewives" just clean the house and that's it. Yeah, how hard could that be? Not much seeing as how if that was the only duty a housewife had, it could be done in a day. Kids demand a great amount of time, and if you're doing your job correctly, you're focused on teaching your children more than you are the laundry.

That being said, I have mucho respect for parents that work full time. Especially single parents who work full time and don't have a partner to help with some of the work. I realize staying at home isn't everyone's cup of tea as well. Some parents in fact do make better parents by going to work everyday. I think if you can swing it though, it's best that a parent stays at home with the children until they are school age.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 3 (view)
 
whats in the trunk of your car??
Posted: 8/23/2008 8:19:54 PM
spare tire
jumper cables
paint sprayer
two wind chimes
a light cover for the kitchen
paint brushes
putty knives
trash
lol I know there is more, but I'm afraid to know what's in there myself. My husband was using my car for a while and I just discovered yesterday that all his crap is still in my car.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 11 (view)
 
how do you take care of a piercing?
Posted: 8/23/2008 6:50:42 PM

i have my lip and my septum, both pierced at a 14.



as of now, ive had my septum done for 4 weeks, and my lip for 3 months


Errrr..... wha?
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 51 (view)
 
rude customers- what would you do?
Posted: 8/23/2008 6:47:09 PM
Unless a customer is downright belligerent, you need to smile and do as they ask. If you can't do that, you have no business in customer service. I ran into two people back to back today that had NO business in customer service.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 43 (view)
 
How do I find out about this guy?
Posted: 8/23/2008 10:26:31 AM

Rather than hurt or judge this woman who has probably had enough hurt and pain with what happened to her daughter, I would like to see this thread become a lesson for others. This woman originally was worried a single man moving next door would be a child predator (which incidentally I thought was ridiculous), and completely missed what was happening in her home by someone she knew and trusted - unfortunately, the latter type makes up most pedophiles. She made a mistake, came back to her thread to post what had happened, and admitted her mistakes. Giver her a break here, and perhaps try to HELP the situation and guide the thread to a place where something can be learned from it.


I agree and it's a shame that she left as it was probably over this.

Then there's all this "I'm prettier than you" going on between grown men.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 6 (view)
 
how do you take care of a piercing?
Posted: 8/22/2008 8:08:00 PM
Wowsad that's exactly what I have done (although I never got infections) with mine. People go to these cheap ass places and are told to use rubbing alcohol and god knows what else and then they wonder why body parts are falling off. lol I did go straight to sea salt on my belly piercing per the instructions of my registered nurse body piercer. He'd tell me all kinds of stories of people going to some hole in the wall and then come to him wanting to know how to get rid of the infection. He'd make them pay him 20 bucks before he'd give them the information they needed just for being stupid in the first place. lol Loved that guy. Wish I knew where he went. Sea salt and dial soap are the ways to go.

You can always tell who just got an oral piercing because they're carrying around a bottle of mouthwash with them everywhere.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 12 (view)
 
tongue ring
Posted: 8/22/2008 6:12:04 PM
A few days after having the surgery, you aren't going to care whether it closes up or your whole tongue falls off. It's not a fun surgery to have at your age!

Maybe this will help:

http://www.pitt.edu/~cjm6/f99tong.html

edit: My husband never wears his and the hole is still there. He got it done in 2001.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 60 (view)
 
leashes?
Posted: 8/22/2008 5:07:09 PM

I was on a very, very fixed income, and it took a month at least to be able to get a stroller, even the cheap one,


Cheap strollers are no more expensive than child leashes.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 55 (view)
 
leashes?
Posted: 8/22/2008 4:27:49 PM
Normally I'm sympathetic to those with curious kids because I have one, but I call bullshit on needing a leash for a non-special needs child. I've ALWAYS been able to keep track of both kids and do other things at the same time. For the most part my daughter has always stayed right with me. She's pretty laid back and obedient, whereas her brother is off checking things out, but she had her days. They didn't get a chance to run off though because I was paying attention to what where they were and what they were doing. Knowing that my son, especially, is more curious, I caught on quick that I had to watch him even more closely than a "normal" child. Funny how I was able to accomplish this without tying them to me.

Strollers are good because kids get tired when walking long distances, and like someone else mentioned, holding your hand up for hours to hold onto someone else's is tiring. I remember doing that and my arm hurting so bad. There is no way in hell I would have went to a zoo, amusement park, fair, or otherwise with small children and no stroller. They get tired, cranky, and I was not going to end up carrying two toddlers around because they got tired. If you want to put yourself through that misery just because your child doesn't *want* to ride in the stroller, or *want* to hold your hand, then have at it. I'll stick with teaching mine that sometimes you have to do things you don't *want* to.

To whomever it was that uses public transportation and doesn't have a stroller- you can get an umbrella stroller for about 10 bucks.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 33 (view)
 
leashes?
Posted: 8/22/2008 7:30:50 AM
You know they make strollers to hold 40-50+ pounds, right? They are designed to hold (most) kids until the age of 4. If anyone here has a two year old that weighs more than 50 pounds, you need to see a doctor about that.

I wonder if they make those connectors like they do for dog leashes. You know, you can hook the connector to each dog and then use one leash. That'd be cool cause then you could have a whole herd of kids and just tie them all together.


OP ... Do what you are comfortable with ... and to heck with what other "busybodies" think. It's not thier child that could get lost, abducted, or run out in front of a vehicle!


No one is picking on the OP. She asked a question and us "busybodies" have every right to answer the question. Is that not what a discussion is about?
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 17 (view)
 
Still good people in this world???
Posted: 8/21/2008 8:42:22 PM
Just yesterday my faith was restored in humanity. I took the company vehicle to get an inspection and while waiting this guy came in asking for a used tire. (He didn't have much money and couldn't afford a new one.) The night before he had a blowout and put his spare on. That morning he blew another tire and couldn't afford to buy new ones. The place didn't have any used tires so this other guy sitting in there bought the guy two tires!
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 10 (view)
 
Have you ever found anything strange? Something that just made
Posted: 8/21/2008 5:39:11 PM
When I was a kid we moved to a mountain town in Colorado. We lived on this property that used to be an old mining town. The old saloon and some other outbuildings still stood. In the attic of the saloon were old artifacts from the mining town. There were crates and things stamped with the name of the town and the date. They dated back to the 1800's. We took it all, and my mom still has most of it.

A long time ago I went on a lake trip with some friends. I went with NO money. lol I was starting to stress about not having any money in case I wanted, or needed something. We had to drive up this old gravel road in the middle of nowhere and park on it to get to our dock. There is NOTHING out here... I get out, look down, and there lays a 20 dollar bill.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 9 (view)
 
leashes?
Posted: 8/21/2008 5:29:58 PM
I think there are some kids out there with delays that leashes might benefit, but the other people that use them do it out of convenience. People with two or more young children handle outings without leashes just fine, so one kid should be a breeze. Why not stand your child right in front of you while paying for something?
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 2 (view)
 
Bob Saget Roast
Posted: 8/20/2008 3:05:21 PM
I wasn't that impressed. Someone kicked the sh!t out of John Stamos though... I think it was the funniest part.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 926 (view)
 
Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/20/2008 6:08:36 AM

What questions? Were you the one who said but then there will be more women on welfare? I think you've gotten quite a few responses. Just because you don't like them doesn't make them any less valid. You really haven't stumped anyone, I assure you.
On the other hand, I'd love for all the straw men to disappear and the rest of the people who don't support the opt-out to straight up answer the question.
If we can choose to opt out of parenthood after conception, why should men be held to a higher standard?


Was I replying to you? Yeah, no. I've been in this thread from day one and unless you've read every post in these 37 pages as I have, you don't know what I've asked. M'kay? The ONLY person who has answered the welfare question directly was the Capt. I even asked you twice, and you skirted around it.

As for your "question", ask the constitution. Ask the MEN who made it so. If men don't want to stand up and be men, then so be it. By the way, I've answered this question directly with real answers many times.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 41 (view)
 
Could you exist today without a CELL phone????
Posted: 8/19/2008 8:30:47 PM

I think a lot of people allow phones to rule the way they live their lives and allow people to interfere in what they are doing more often than they used to.
Like if you go to the gym. I see people yapping on the phones all the time rather than working out. I don't understand how someone can stop their routine to yap about something totally unimportant rather than check the phone after the workout and call back.
Personally I think a lot of people make themselves look like idiots by not being able to leave that phone behind for even a quick trip to the loo or to pay for gas.
What if someone called right then during those few minutes and you can't answer? Can't have that...can't let it go to voice mail and call back. I find it ridiculous.


I totally agree. And it's rude to not stfu long enough for someone to take your order or otherwise assist you. And no one around you gives a sh!t how drunk you got last night, or anything else you gotta blab on about. Four people walked into the gas station today as I did. All of them were on cell phones and none of them hung up before leaving the store.

Today my new work gave me a cell phone so they can get a hold of me while I'm traveling around town. I found it useful once. Other than that, it was the boss calling all the damn time and I'm trying to drive. I DO NOT talk on the phone and drive at the same time, and if you don't want me wrecking your company vehicle, don't friggin call me 900 times a day. I also won't answer while talking to someone in person, or while I'm in a store. It's rude and inconsiderate.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 917 (view)
 
Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/19/2008 5:26:30 PM

come on ladies...re-read my message # 894 and instead of ignoring it because it's impossible to argue with...take a crack at it.


I have asked several direct questions in this thread, and even repeated them and no one would take a crack at them. Some even quoted my questions, but tip toed around the real issue. Once someone answers mine, I'll take a crack at yours.


The same one woman is still disagreeing with all of you and not one of you can admit that it's wrong...after 37 pages???


So because one woman (who doesn't want, nor will have children) disagrees with the rest of the women we should think we're wrong?
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 906 (view)
 
Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/18/2008 7:45:09 PM

condoms fail too frequently.


http://www.stanford.edu/group/SHPRC/ch6_bar.html
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/birth-control/condom-10187.htm#effective

If used correctly and used every time one has sex, the failure rate is only about 3%. It can be as high as 14%, but those are mostly attributed to human error and inconsistent use. There are women's birth control methods that are even better, but condoms rate up there with one of the better birth controls. Men do have control over their own fertility; so take it.

*Approximately 1 in 165 condoms break.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 4 (view)
 
ex's new girlfriend a danger to my child........ what can i do?
Posted: 8/18/2008 7:03:37 PM
A button with an exposed pin wasn't the brightest idea, but I'm doubting she meant any harm. I became a "step-parent" when I was 22 and my fiance's two young boys moved in with us. I didn't have much experience with kids so I did some dumb things, but I learned not to do those things again. Perhaps she needs someone to point out to her what's acceptable and what's not? Some guidance?
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 14 (view)
 
Cell phones?
Posted: 8/17/2008 3:34:06 PM
I haven't had a cell phone in 10 years. I'm going to have to get one soon because of my new job though. I'll be traveling around the city a lot and the school needs to be able to reach me if something is wrong with my kids. I don't plan on it being surgically attached to my head though. I can't stand that and I refuse to become someone like that.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 4 (view)
 
Cricket Wireless - two questions
Posted: 8/17/2008 3:30:06 PM
Thanks tpot. I've had trouble calling local cell phones from my landline. They will be long distance for me, but not for the cell user. I don't get it.

who- Yeah, that's why I liked them- no contract and unlimited usage for $40 a month isn't bad. I don't leave my metro area very often at all, and if I do, I could take my husband's cell phone. Speaking of, I was looking at Verizon family plans and it's just ridiculous for two phones as far as I'm concerned. I have got to get a phone of some kind though (I haven't had a cell phone in 10 years.) for my new job. It's going to be a must.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 881 (view)
 
Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/17/2008 2:05:21 PM
I thought it was pretty clear that 1965Chris meant that he'd rather have to pay child support than have had his son aborted. Nowhere did I see him saying he doesn't have anything to do with his kid.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 1 (view)
 
Cricket Wireless - two questions
Posted: 8/17/2008 2:01:01 PM
First question is if anyone has/had this service, do/did you like it? Any drawbacks besides not being able to use the phone out of your area? How is their customer service?

Second, there is this rumor that Cricket is owned by the government, but it's owned by a company named Leap Wireless. Anyway, the rumor says that the government owns Cricket and that they monitor people's calls. I know this can't be true, but I can't find anything debunking it. (I want proof so someone will leave me the hell alone about it.)
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 877 (view)
 
Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/17/2008 9:11:13 AM
Opt out of paternity legal forms for Canadians:

http://www.canlaw.com/legalforms/paternitykit.htm

Some of these are really comical:


# The law in parenting is entirely one sided in favour of mothers and women.
# Men have no rights whatsoever when it comes to children.
# Women control all aspects of birth control.
# Only they know when they are ovulating.
# Condoms are unreliable.
# Women have been known to retrieve the sperm from a condom in order to get pregnant.
# Women have been tricking men into marriage and support by getting pregnant since Eve.
# Women who decide to get pregnant can easily obtain a lifetime of child support from the man they target.
# The fact that the sire/father did not want a child is not even considered by the courts. This is dead wrong and does not reflect today's reality.
# Women have the ability to control when and if they get pregnant. Men do not, but they will still have to pay child support or go to jail.
# Women have the ability to control whether or not to carry the foetus or abort. Men do not, but they will still have to pay child support or go to jail.
# Women have the ability to keep the child after birth, or give it up for adoption. Men do not, but they will still have to pay child support or go to jail.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 865 (view)
 
Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/16/2008 3:35:55 PM

I correct those who say I'm childless because I'm not. I'm childfree.


Then you are childless by definition as well as I (was) unemployed by definition. So it's cool for me (and others) to refer to you as childless and for you (and others) to refer to me as an unemployed mom and there shouldn't be any issues. Glad we cleared that up.



To get back on topic, here is an article about a suit filed by a man wanting to opt out. I can't find an article about the ruling though. It's basically the exact same things we've been debating here. If someone could find the outcome, that'd be great.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/09/national/main1385124.shtml


'Roe v. Wade For Men' Suit Filed
NEW YORK, March 9, 2006(AP) Contending that women have more options than men do in the event of an unintended pregnancy, men's rights activists are mounting a long shot legal campaign aimed at giving them the chance to opt out of financial responsibility for raising a child.

The National Center for Men has prepared a lawsuit — nicknamed "Roe v. Wade for Men" — to be filed Thursday in U.S. District Court in Michigan on behalf of a 25-year-old computer programmer ordered to pay child support for his ex-girlfriend's daughter. The suit addresses the issue of male reproductive rights, contending that lack of such rights violates the U.S. Constitution's equal protection clause.

The gist of the argument: If a pregnant woman can choose among abortion, adoption or raising a child, a man involved in an unintended pregnancy should have the choice of declining the financial responsibilities of fatherhood. The activists involved hope to spark discussion even if they lose.

"There's such a spectrum of choice that women have — it's her body, her pregnancy and she has the ultimate right to make decisions," said Mel Feit, director of the men's center. "I'm trying to find a way for a man also to have some say over decisions that affect his life profoundly."

Feit's organization has been trying since the early 1990s to pursue such a lawsuit, and finally found a suitable plaintiff in Matt Dubay of Saginaw, Mich.

Dubay says he has been ordered to pay $500 a month in child support for a girl born last year to his ex-girlfriend. He contends that the woman knew he didn't want to have a child with her and assured him repeatedly that — because of a physical condition — she could not get pregnant.

Dubay is braced for the lawsuit to fail.

"What I expect to hear (from the court) is that the way things are is not really fair, but that's the way it is," he said in a telephone interview. "Just to create awareness would be enough, to at least get a debate started."

State courts have ruled in the past that any inequity experienced by men like Dubay is outweighed by society's interest in ensuring that children get financial support from two parents. Melanie Jacobs, a Michigan State University law professor, said the federal court will probably rule similarly in Dubay's case.

"The courts are trying to say it may not be so fair that this gentleman has to support a child he didn't want, but it's less fair to say society has to pay the support," she said.

Feit, however, says a fatherhood opt-out wouldn't necessarily impose higher costs on society or the mother. A woman who balked at abortion but felt she couldn't afford to raise a child could put the baby up for adoption, he said.

Jennifer Brown of the women's rights advocacy group Legal Momentum objected to the men's center comparing Dubay's lawsuit to Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court ruling establishing a woman's right to have an abortion.

"Roe is based on an extreme intrusion by the government — literally to force a woman to continue a pregnancy she doesn't want," Brown said. "There's nothing equivalent for men. They have the same ability as women to use contraception, to get sterilized."

Feit counters that the suit's reference to abortion rights is apt.

"Roe says a woman can choose to have intimacy and still have control over subsequent consequences," he said. "No one has ever asked a federal court if that means men should have some similar say."

"The problem is this is so politically incorrect," Feit added. "The public is still dealing with the pre-Roe ethic when it comes to men, that if a man fathers a child, he should accept responsibility."

Feit doesn't advocate an unlimited fatherhood opt-out; he proposes a brief period in which a man, after learning of an unintended pregnancy, could decline parental responsibilities if the relationship was one in which neither partner had desired a child.

"If the woman changes her mind and wants the child, she should be responsible," Feit said. "If she can't take care of the child, adoption is a good alternative."

The president of the National Organization for Women, Kim Gandy, acknowledged that disputes over unintended pregnancies can be complex and bitter.

"None of these are easy questions," said Gandy, a former prosecutor. "But most courts say it's not about what he did or didn't do or what she did or didn't do. It's about the rights of the child."
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 863 (view)
 
Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/16/2008 2:04:33 PM
By using the term "unemployed mother" you imply that these mothers don't do anything all day long. By using the term "childless" I'm implying that you are lacking something in your life. By using the term "childfree" it's automatically apparent to me, that you see children as a burden, or something you wish to have no part of. Correct? Isn't that why you prefer it? You get called childless and people almost pity you, but when you are called childfree people understand that you like that choice.

Referring to sahm's in general as unemployed mothers has the same effect as people pitying you for being child"less". It's all in the wording.

I have wondered about all the occupations of "sahm" as well, but most of the ones I have seen are in Canada or somewhere else that gives a year maternity leave. The rest probably do deserve to fit under the category of "unemployed mother". And men don't touch those women with a ten foot pole. Or someone else's d!ck. (Usually)

I think we're getting way off topic though... we need to watch it. lol
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 860 (view)
 
Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/16/2008 1:20:39 PM
I haven't read all the responses yet, but you guys totally misunderstood me! I didn't mean to imply that being a sahm is harder than working. I was fortunate that I didn't have to work and do all the mom stuff at the same time. I'm not trying to rub that in, or make myself out to be better than anyone. I have mucho respect for those who had to raise infants/toddlers and hold down a job. THAT is hard work! But don't think that sahm is easy by any stretch. There is a lot more to take care of because people are home all day.

Pisces, didn't read all your post yet, but it doesn't offend me that you prefer the term childfree. My point was, you don't like being called childless by others in the same way I don't like it when people assume that all sahm's sit on their asses all day eating bon bons while the kids play in traffic. Being with little kids all day and keeping them busy and stimulated while attending to everything else is a lot of work, but my job was to bring my kids up and if the housework slipped because I was out exploring with them or whatever, then so be it. I wasn't a stay at home maid and tv watcher- I DID things with my kids.

You guys have to remember, I am married. We had income coming in so it wasn't like I was living off welfare. The only time I got "welfare" (food stamps only) was right after I left my husband. We have since reconciled and while I could continue to be a sahm, my kids are in school full time now so I do have employment outside the home. While we were separated, he gave me enough in child support for us to live on. It didn't leave much for extras, but we got by. I was in college at the time as well, so I was doing things other than sitting on my ass collecting money from my estranged husband.

I don't know how single moms sah either unless they are collecting welfare. I realize sah isn't usually an option for single parents.

Off to read the rest, but I hope this clears up any misunderstandings.

edit- what I meant about working was there were many days I'd rather be in the workforce interacting with adults instead of two year olds. They don't hold conversations very well and are very demanding. lol


With regards to staying at home, that was your choice.


And I wouldn't change it for the world. I've complained about it sometimes because it can be draining, but it was the best decision I've ever made.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 852 (view)
 
Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/16/2008 9:38:19 AM

But then there is volunteer work at the school.....and the local agency...getting to the health club.....and keeping the house clean...and driving the children....all of which the single parent who works also manges to accomplish.......but I doubt they will be saying or suggesting how much harder it would be to stay at home and not work?


Jealous much? Damn. I never just crawled out of bed when I felt like it, kicked on the tv and sat on my ass. NEVER. I had infant twins who turned into toddlers. There was no sleeping in and watching tv! I don't care if single parents do that- it's not the point. I do it now as well as working, and trust me, working is MUCH easier than sahm. I'm very fortunate to have had the opportunity to be a sahm and I wouldn't change it for the world, but to insinuate I didn't do anything is bs.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 851 (view)
 
Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/16/2008 9:32:35 AM
Capt, I gotta run for a bit, but I'm going to see what I can come up with when I get back. Perhaps there are some studies out there on this. I'm just not seeing women deciding not to have sex due to an opt out clause. Men didn't stop having sex when abortion was made legal.

Anyway, I'll look around later on cause I'm just as interested as you. Again though, thank you for actually answering my question yesterday. Have a great afternoon!
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 848 (view)
 
Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/16/2008 9:15:30 AM

And I don't see men being able to opt out anytime soon. That's what this thread is about, opinions and ideals. Although, if you want to argue that welfare ideals are irrelevant in this thread, then the fact that someone needs to support a welfare mom's babies is irrelevant and should be left out as well.


Welfare ideals is a pipe dream. Opting out would become a real option WAY before welfare goes anywhere. I think it's a very real possibility that many more women and children would go on welfare if the opt out was made available. Someone is going to pay somewhere. The argument keeps being avoided though.



I was under the impression that not having a job meant unemployed.


I worked my ass off as a sahm. Just because I didn't have a W2 and a paycheck doesn't mean I wasn't working. There were lots of times I wish I was working because it would have been easier than what I was doing staying at home. It's offensive to me in the way that when someone says you are "childLESS" and you correct them that you are "childFREE".
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 843 (view)
 
Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/15/2008 9:10:26 PM

I'm not. I've said at least twice in this thread that its irresponsible and incredibly selfish for any person or couple to bring a child into the world that they are not mentally, emotionally, physically, and financially able to take care of. It is irresponsible and selfish to expect anyone to pick up the slack for choices you chose to make. It is not anyone else's responsibility to pay for that child when they are not the one who decided to have that child.


Should be and are, are two different things. What you present is the ideal, but it's not the norm, and I don't see it becoming the norm anytime soon. Someone is going to have to foot the bill when the mother can't/doesn't. It's reality.


What does being an unemployed mother have to do with opting out?


I don't know what that was about either, but "sahm" is NOT the same thing as "unemployed". There are unemployed mothers who claim to be sahm's that are really just unemployed, but there are those who are truly sahm's as well.
 rawrrrr
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 834 (view)
 
Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/15/2008 2:44:03 PM

Maybe I'd just do more work under the table. Maybe I'd become a bigtime drug dealer or a hitman. It's all hypothetical, right?


Don't be an ass.

Thank you for actually answering my question. I was about to stomp my feet and sue YOU for child support.... just cause. haha
 
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