Israel-Hamas Peace (Quietly) at Hand? chat & forums.

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quirky_n_cute

Joined: 5/2/2008

Msg: 30 (view)

Israel-Hamas Peace (Quietly) at Hand? Posted: 6/25/2008 8:22:20 AM
P.S. I see that many posting here are from Canada, including "uninterested". I live in the US, and as I stated earlier, our media is very limited in reporting on many topics, including our ally, Israel. All of our national news stations are owned by large for-profit corporations who have agendas of their own, and most local stations and news papers are being bought out or can't afford in-depth reporting. My local paper just outsourced their newspaper layout function to India. Anyone growing up here, as I have, does not have a clue why those "crazy Arabs" blow themselves up all the time, and hurt those "poor Israelis" unless they do their own research. Granted it is hard to know what sources to trust, all one can do is "peak behind the veil" and make their own judgments. Although I am always open to facts and truth, the objective information I have found is overwhelmingly different than what we are being told in the US.

quirky_n_cute

Joined: 5/2/2008

Msg: 29 (view)

Israel-Hamas Peace (Quietly) at Hand? Posted: 6/25/2008 7:16:22 AM
"uninterested", Of course it is wise to vet sources, this is why asking "Are you Jewish" is a relevant question when discussing the subject of Israel. Here is a fact, the site you referenced was established by Steven C. Markoff, Chairman and CEO, A-Mark Financial Corporation. So perhaps you are not Jewish, but your information is. Anyone can read "websites" written by people invested- literally in this case- in a cause. Facts are quite another case. Here is a book, widely recognized as a factual account of the history of the conflict by the academic world, and used in a class taught by an Israeli Jew at the University of California, Irvine: "Palestine and the Arab-Israeli Conflict, A History with Documents" by Charles Smith. I would highly recommend it, as well as the previously mentioned website: www.IfAmericansKnew.org I have not gotten my information from the BBC, nor from apologists for the state of Israel, nor the lobbyists working for them to spin public perception.

quirky_n_cute

Joined: 5/2/2008

Msg: 27 (view)

Israel-Hamas Peace (Quietly) at Hand? Posted: 6/24/2008 9:23:32 PM
The US media is severely PRO Israel, as is our Congress, foreign policy, foreign aid, etc. As an American citizen I had NO negative information about Israel, and ALL negative impressions from the media about suicide bombers and "terrorists". It wasn't until I read a few books on the Middle East that I began to understand the travesty that has befallen the Palestinians. The information I have is very different from what you "uninterested" are so eloquently providing here (Are you Jewish by chance?) - there were not nearly as many Jews in 1948 as there were Palestinians, and huge numbers of Jews were imported. I know many wanted "a better place", but many Sephardic Jews were "sold a paradise" and ended up living in tent cities in poverty, worse than where they had come from. Lots of info here: www.ifamericansknew.org

quirky_n_cute

Joined: 5/2/2008

Msg: 19 (view)

Israel-Hamas Peace (Quietly) at Hand? Posted: 6/23/2008 9:28:19 PM
Just what is Jew, and why do they need a "Homeland"? Is it a religion? Since when do we, the US, $upport and die for a theocracy? Is it a race? I know the secular European Zionists, Ashkenazi Jews pulled the political strings to set it up, but today it is a racist theocracy where Sephardic Jews are second class, and Palestinians are sub human. The Arabs in Palestine did not ask for this. They were a civilization more closely tied to the land and ancient ways. The Zionists manipulated the Brits and the US into the political creation of Israel when it wasn't their/our land to give. We say we are spreading democracy, but Israel is not one (this is why they are so worried about demographics and fertility rates, a democracy is ruled by the majority, and their's is not a true democracy, it is a fake state just for "them") and we do not respect the democratic elections of the Palestinians!? The only fair peace would be as WhiskeyPapa said- returning the land to the people - many of whom still have keys to their family homes, that are now occupied by imported Jews. I do wish them peace, but at what cost?

quirky_n_cute

Joined: 5/2/2008

Msg: 33 (view)

why are the bees leaving ? Posted: 6/23/2008 9:05:30 PM
I don't blame the bees for leaving- not sure where they've gone, but I would not be surprised if the cows didn't wish they could flee as well! I feel so sorry for factory farmed animals/plants/bees... for-profit food for the people working in cubicles... for the international corporations...

quirky_n_cute

Joined: 5/2/2008

Msg: 38 (view)

Tell me, what is your opinion on Globalization ? Posted: 6/21/2008 11:58:59 AM
It was the "World Trade Organization" and the Pentagon that the planes flew into. Looks like "Military Industrial Complex" was under attack. Now we have a "War on Terror" which is jibberish, but those in power also talk about "Islamo Facists" or "Radical Muslims". So we have a religious war on aggressive international politico-capitalism. Who does this benefit? From one perspective, it could be corporate elitists who don't like Arabs. Who would that be? I think this is a very old war, that has just entered a new phase. How one identifies the players is just a product of what information they have been exposed to.

quirky_n_cute

Joined: 5/2/2008

Msg: 18 (view)

US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict Posted: 6/21/2008 9:11:24 AM
One must consider who is running the US. Learn more about international corporations/banks, AIPAC, the current neocon administration, English and American history in the 1800's, and you will gain an interesting perspective.

quirky_n_cute

Joined: 5/2/2008

Msg: 40 (view)

What are the Consequences of attacking Iran ? Posted: 6/20/2008 9:46:07 PM
Previously posted: "Persians are the sweetest, most educated, most artistic culture in the middle East. They are basically Jews who speak Farsee." ?? I have to agree with the first part of this statement- living in southern California I have known several, and they all have been. So are the Palestinians I have met at UC Irvine. Sweet, educated, artistic people. I have not had the same experience with the many Jews I have known, however. Seriously. To attack Iran on behalf of Israel, well, I'm not sure I could call this "my" country anymore.

quirky_n_cute

Joined: 5/2/2008

Msg: 10 (view)

US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict Posted: 6/20/2008 10:42:17 AM
Maybe the US is just... being sucked... dry. Consider the current financial crisis, the war debt the neocons have conned us into, the incredible sums given to Israel (per capita more than any other forgein nation, I understand)... that we may well be sucked into yet another conflict is perhaps a small metaphor, or a piece reflecting the whole...

quirky_n_cute

Joined: 5/2/2008

Msg: 29 (view)

Tell me, what is your opinion on Globalization ? Posted: 6/19/2008 3:29:34 PM
I don't think globalization is dead. There was a program on my local PBS station today, part of a series on American History 1877 to the present, which made a thought provoking comment related to this subject, "...due to industrialization many companies went national, leading to the need for stronger federal oversight... " Seems logical to consider that with the growth of multi-national corporations an international body would develop in response - or possibly be formed by them in order to protect their interests world wide. I think this is a danger to local economies and local community control everywhere, but I'm not sure people have the determination to stop it. There is a perceived benefit of cheap goods (the perceived benefits enhanced by wage stagnation, until YOUR job goes away), and most people can no longer imagine living without manufactured goods. We are giving up quality communities and local control to play in this bigger pond. Buy local, walk to work... this would only have impact if everyone did it, which sadly is unlikely.

quirky_n_cute

Joined: 5/2/2008

Msg: 19 (view)

What are the Consequences of attacking THE ENTIRE M.E. ? Posted: 6/19/2008 12:08:30 PM
One begins to wonder... why are we attacking the entire middle east? And who is the beneficiary of these attacks? There is plenty of injustice in the rest of the world, yet the neo-cons focus on one tiny area. There is even oil in other parts of the world; I hear we get most of ours from Canada and Mexico, close to home... I find that more and more questions are satisfied with this question: "Who would benefit from this action, and what would the benefit be?" Israel. Oil, and possibly more land.

quirky_n_cute

Joined: 5/2/2008

Msg: 26 (view)

Dispensationalism Posted: 6/19/2008 9:56:35 AM
Here is an interesting research project. Look into the history of "Dispensationalism". Briefly, what I have learned is that the current End Times doctrine embraced by most Evangelical/Fundamentalist Christians today was invented in the 1800's, and heavily promoted, first in New York and Chicago, through the dissemination of the Scofield Reference version of the Bible. Dispensationaism is a specific way of interpreting the Bible that is the opposite of what the first 2ooo years of Christianity taught with regard to "Israel" and the Jews. The result has been that while some Christians once blamed the Jews for "killing Jesus" (hey, I thought that was the whole point of his "virgin birth", to die for the sins of the world, no?) anyway, they now all favor protecting Israel at all costs. Interesting development, huh? A related research project might be regarding "self-fullfilling prophecies", as there is much evidence that Israel was politically created due to this interpretation of the Bible which had become very popular by 1880-1917 (various letters encouraging the creation of Israel written to & by English and Americal political leaders, culminating in the Balfore Declaration)... and now Christians point to Israel's "re-establishment" as a "fullfillment of prophecy"- round and round we go, but where this started is interesting indeed!

quirky_n_cute

Joined: 5/2/2008

Msg: 5 (view)

Ross Perot develops new website to confront US corruption and economic deception Posted: 6/16/2008 12:40:04 PM
Well, NOW I know where to look for a job (State & Local Gov't)- thanks for the tip!!!

quirky_n_cute

Joined: 5/2/2008

Msg: 24 (view)

The US' successful ME policy..you can thank AIPAC! Posted: 6/16/2008 12:35:20 PM
Glad to see you posted this- wondering why conversation abruptly ended thereafter???

quirky_n_cute

Joined: 5/2/2008

Msg: 11 (view)

Israeli official: Attack on Iran 'unavoidable' Posted: 6/7/2008 5:04:34 PM
It is so sad to me to see my country on the wrong side of this, and to see my countrymen becoming so biased against Arabs/Muslims. This was written in 2003, but does help explain a significant part of the puzzle of "what are we doing in Iraq, and why?" http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/fr/fr030416_1_n.shtml

quirky_n_cute

Joined: 5/2/2008

Msg: 84 (view)

Senate proves Bush lied us into war. Posted: 6/7/2008 4:37:49 PM
Time well spent- read this. http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/fr/fr030416_1_n.shtml

quirky_n_cute

Joined: 5/2/2008

Msg: 20 (view)

The US' successful ME policy..you can thank AIPAC! Posted: 6/6/2008 5:50:24 PM
The only "HIGHER POWER" supporting Israel is your tax dollar$!

quirky_n_cute

Joined: 5/2/2008

Msg: 44 (view)

Senate proves Bush lied us into war. Posted: 6/6/2008 12:32:55 PM
Who? Who's interests where served by the invasion? I don't believe it was about oil, look where gas prices are today (of course, speculation may be behind this, the war certainly did not help access to oil supplies). Who is affraid of, and now clammoring for war on Iran (besides McCains "bomb, bomb, bomb..." comment)? ... and before you accuse me of being ______________, please remember that "just because someone is paranoid, it doesn't mean they are not after him".

quirky_n_cute

Joined: 5/2/2008

Msg: 38 (view)

Senate proves Bush lied us into war. Posted: 6/6/2008 10:50:42 AM
BOTH Democrats and Republicans have lied to us about the Middle East. ALL "three" presidential hopefuls kissed up to AIPAC, and most past Presidents (other than Carter) did too. This is deeper than a partisan issue. While I agree that this is in NO WAY an excuse for the recent revelation about Bush/"neocons" (former democrats turned war mongers) lying us into this war, one must look deeper to see who is pulling the stings of our "democracy".

quirky_n_cute

Joined: 5/2/2008

Msg: 25 (view)

Senate proves Bush lied us into war. Posted: 6/5/2008 8:53:12 PM
Why? Where did all three Presidential contenders speak over the past couple of days? AIPAC. They are more powerful than you might imagine. And the reason we give more money to one tiny country in the middle east than you can imagine. The one that we protect at ALL cost. The one that maintains a majority through ethnic cleansing. Most of the rest of this world knows the truth, but anyone in this country who points this out gets labled with a very nasty, shameful label. But that, in my informed opinion, is what this war was all about.

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