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robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 30 (view)

What is the goal of existance? Posted: 9/20/2005 8:03:49 PM
Read and study ecclesiastes, then read and study the Tao Te Ching attributed to Lao Tzu, then read and study Samuel Beckett's Waiting for Godot. You will then discover, if you're smart enough, and enlightened enough, that we haven't learned much more about that question than we knew two thousand years ago. I'll answer in the form of a question. Is there a God? Is there a purpose in life? Discovery of this, is the goal of existance. I've found answers that satisfy me. But in the end I belive they all ultimately lead to a more important question, posed in Genisis and restated in Waiting for Godot. Am I my brother's Keeper? Was I sleeping while the others suffered? Am I sleeping now?

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 69 (view)

God is a Myth Posted: 9/15/2005 7:07:31 AM
Jasow, That is true untill you remove time from the equation then "things are" or simply "God is" reminds me a bit of Lucky's rant "Given the existence as uttered forth in the public works of Puncher and Wattmann of a personal God quaquaquaqua with white beard quaquaquaqua outside time without extension who from the heights of divine apathia divine athambia divine aphasia loves us dearly with some exceptions for reasons unknown but time will tell and suffers like the divine Miranda with those who for reasons unknown but time will tell......."

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 109 (view)

Imagine if you were God… Posted: 9/14/2005 7:08:00 PM
If I were God I could solve all of the world’s problems simply by turning everything in the universe into NERF! Think about it, you get into a car accident, you may bounce around a while, but no harm done. Hit someone with a baseball bat, the nerf bat bounces off your nerf head. Wars would be impossible, just a lot of nerf tanks firing nerf projectiles bouncing off nerf targets. Sure, sex would be strange at first, but in time you’d get used to it. My second act of God, free ice-cream for everyone!

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 40 (view)

Is the bible true or false Posted: 9/14/2005 6:11:59 PM
The Question is not valid. Is the bible true? Well it's a bunch of myths that explain truths about humanity. Once we get into the New Testament, the question gets much stickier since it is a myth based on a true story. But it still reveals truths about humanity, so generally speaking, yes the bible is true in it’s lessons on spirituality if taken in the context of the times and of the people who wrote it. Is it literally true? Well that would be frickin’ ridiculous.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 63 (view)

God is a Myth Posted: 9/14/2005 7:11:36 AM
Let me clear this up for you folks, Time started with the big bang, to ask what was before the big bang is like asking what is north of the north pole. It's not a logical question. That does not mean there was not cause and effect in some fashion initiating it, but not within the framework of time as we know it. The time-space curvature that we live in is boundless yet finite. Choose any direction and if you could move fast enough, you would come back to your point of origin if you were moving in a straight line. Of course the Time-space curvature is expanding, but for all intensive purposes, it is finite. It's important to discern between the t-s curvature and the entire universe when making such claims of infinity. What exists outside of the t-s curve can presently only be speculated at by means of string theory, 13 to 26 dimentions, depending upon whom you listen to, and what existance means in that realm is still be worked out.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 40 (view)

Spell Casting, What are your favorite ones ???? Posted: 9/13/2005 12:48:31 PM
"I am what is called a Green Witch, or a Wild Witch, it also has to do with the healing arts and herbal medicines." Does that mean you can't cast a spell to send my soulmate and true love running into my arms? If anyone can, lil help here.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 85 (view)

Mithra or Jesus ? Posted: 9/13/2005 12:33:29 PM
Wasn’t Mitha that giant moth who fought with Godzilla? No, wait, that was Mothra, Never mind.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 60 (view)

God is a Myth Posted: 9/13/2005 12:24:16 PM
Friv, Beleive that one's covered with, Love thy neighbor as thy self. I beleive that is to be interpeted in two ways. Love thy neighbor as much as you love yourself, and/or Love thy neighbor and love thy self. But I have not studied the original greek to know if both are implied or just one. Anyone go any info on this?

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 56 (view)

God is a Myth Posted: 9/12/2005 11:24:41 PM
Oh, and I almost forgot the biggie LOVE THY ENEMY. That one should top the list.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 55 (view)

God is a Myth Posted: 9/12/2005 11:23:03 PM
RDtoo, There are so many versions of 'Christ's mission’ I believe it best to focus on the core beliefs, The sermon on the mount, A new commandment I give you love one another, No greater love than dieing for your friends, the lord's prayer,etc. The rest, especially anything following the crucifixion is politics. The Taoist in me is more than clear on what to think of the politics.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 54 (view)

God is a Myth Posted: 9/12/2005 11:13:03 PM
Dharma, Sorry, that is not a proof, but an opinion. I respect your opinion, but proof needs to stand up to a bit more than your claim of a voice of reason. You have a belief, untill you can clearly state in logical terms why and/or how God exists, then all you have is belief and no proof.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 36 (view)

God is a Myth Posted: 9/12/2005 3:37:25 PM
Dharma, If there were proof, the arguement would have ended long ago. What is your proof? I'd love to hear it. Rob

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 35 (view)

God is a Myth Posted: 9/12/2005 3:35:58 PM
A Progressive Christian AND a Taoist....ROFL. I would believe the Loch Ness Monster really does exist before I would buy that one. Can I ask how you are defining the term "Christian"? RDtoo As Robert Heilien wrote, "One man's religion is another man's bellylaugh." I'm happy that my spirituality amuses you, We Taoist have a saying, "If they did not laugh, it would not be worthy of being the Tao." Since I believe in the core teachings of Jesus, I believe that makes me a Christian.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 51 (view)

Agnostics read! Posted: 9/11/2005 7:32:03 PM
Masterr, Don't candy coat it, tell us what you really think. ;^)

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 66 (view)

Why are there so many Bible Thumpers in America Posted: 9/11/2005 6:42:22 PM
You can't use the word "fundamentalist," which carried a different meaning, if you will look in the theological dictionary. Some people rant about this and don't even know about Christianity. I have been studying it for most of my life and consider I know probably more than anybody on here Please pardon those of us who use standard dictionaries instead of the special ones passed out with the Koolaid. BTW, it hard to type while handling snakes? Just kidding, this is the definition most people use: fun·da·men·tal·ism (fnd-mntl-zm) KEY NOUN: A usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism. often Fundamentalism An organized, militant Evangelical movement originating in the United States in the late 19th and early 20th century in opposition to Protestant Liberalism and secularism, insisting on the inerrancy of Scripture. Adherence to the theology of this movement.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 38 (view)

Religion? God? Life? ...Confused? This may help Posted: 9/11/2005 5:37:57 PM
God split himself into a myriad parts that he might have friends." This may not be true, but it sounds good - and is no sillier than any other theology. -- ROBERT A. HEINLEIN

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 75 (view)

6 Month Rule Posted: 9/11/2005 5:14:18 PM
Maybe I'm old fashsioned, but other than white lies, I don't see the point in basing a relationship on lies.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 55 (view)

Theoretical problem. Posted: 9/11/2005 3:45:35 PM
It's like this, It's mind over matter, I don't mind and you don't matter. Also, Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 287 (view)

This is now dead theory folks BIG difference from Truth...... Posted: 9/11/2005 2:56:42 PM
So, to sum up, you agree that intelligent design should not be taught in public schools?

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 33 (view)

If God is on Earth, NOW, where's this tax money? Posted: 9/11/2005 12:04:41 PM
Actually,I'm collecting for God, just send your money to me, I'll pray for you, and I assure you good things will happen.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 46 (view)

Do you belive in reincarnation? why? Posted: 9/11/2005 12:01:34 PM
I don’t believe in reincarnation and I didn’t believe in it in my last lifetime either.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 160 (view)

Jesus Lost Years. Posted: 9/11/2005 12:00:19 PM
Jesus, The Lost Years, sounds like a new weekly show on the PAX network. I like my philosophy teacher's view of the Lost Years, Jesus was working, studying (probably also taking a wife by jewish tradition) and being a good Jew like he should, why should he have been doing anything different? But many Christians don't like to admit Jesus was a Jew so that is why, imo, those years seem to have been ignored in the major cannons. And of course, due to Greek influence, we got to make Jesus born of a virgin, and create a myth of origins, certain those stories were made up after the crucifixion.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 64 (view)

Why are there so many Bible Thumpers in America Posted: 9/11/2005 11:27:04 AM
Sorry Dude, all the translations in the world won't help. You got to make a study of it in the original to understand. I don't speak Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek, but if I really want to know something, I look to the scholars who do understand those languages. When you do you find out that Rahab was more than likely a business women and not a whore, Jesus was more than likely a mason and not a carpenter, (bet the free mason society was glad to hear that one), and that three different words with three very different meaning were all translated as 'hell' in the NT. Scripture can't possibly be understood in English.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 284 (view)

This is now dead theory folks BIG difference from Truth...... Posted: 9/11/2005 11:13:04 AM
Ok, so they won't burn me at the stake, very kind of them, but forcing my children to learn religion as science is burning their minds at a metaphorical stake. Where is the evidence for intelligent design, I ask again. Given the fact I have an appendix that serves no real purpose, why do teeth grow in the back of my jaw that I will never use and will only cause me pain? Why do whales have hip bones that simply float in their body also serving no real purpose? And a number of other inconsistencies in nature, I think there may be an argument for unintelligent design, but not for intelligent design. Maybe God was just having a bad day when he designed some life forms.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 282 (view)

This is now dead theory folks BIG difference from Truth...... Posted: 9/11/2005 10:36:01 AM
I'm still waiting for someone to explain the scientific data that exists for intelligent design. Keep looking for God's signature somewhere on my body, is it in code? Is there perhaps a codon sequence that can't be explained by science that lends validity to intelligent desing? I'm really lost as to where the science in intelligent design exists.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 21 (view)

God is a Myth Posted: 9/11/2005 10:30:13 AM
Friv, Sorry, I don't need to accept that God exist, logically speaking, you have to prove He exists, then the nature of God can be speculated. What 'inspired' the clock, or better said, was the cause of it my have been totally random involving no intelligence or deity. This brings up an interesting idea, can intelligence itself be randomly generated. I believe it can, start with binary number system and from there the world of math exist, yet this is simple the acknowledgement of natural principle of existence. Existence vs. nonexistence, binary system, leads to math, math is a form or intelligence, an evolved intelligent system now exists with no divine intervention, although it does require an intelligent being to acknowledge this. Hope that wasn’t too hard to follow, I may not have done the concept justice in my explaination.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 20 (view)

God is a Myth Posted: 9/11/2005 10:21:20 AM
Not playing a game, just didn’t want to viewed as preaching or pitching a belief. Simply put, I consider myself a Progressive Christian and a Classic Taoist, I don't go to church since there aren't many in the Christian view who are progressives. I believe in the core teachings of Jesus but realize that what most Christians practice would be more accurately called, Paulism. As to God being a myth, of course He is, but at one time so were gorillas, pandas, and compassionate republicans, although the latter may still be arguable.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 17 (view)

God is a Myth Posted: 9/11/2005 10:02:51 AM
Oh Friv, You disappoint me, the major flaw in your argument is that you are assuming a clockmaker when you know as well as I do there is no need for one, especially at that point in the evolution of the universe. You’ll have to do better than that.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 8 (view)

Just Daoism Posted: 9/11/2005 9:57:06 AM
Ok, will get to it later today, want to find the entire passage first though, Then I'll give the interpetation I was taught.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 15 (view)

God is a Myth Posted: 9/11/2005 9:47:41 AM
Cat, Actually I like your view and agree with much of it. But it is still a myth. and there is a very sound arguement that the order you percieve as God is a mathamatical result, random nature, etc. (I'm sure you've heard these arguements.) There is no proof of the existence or of the nonexistence of a God in any form. So why do we as supposedly logically minded creatures chose to believe or not believe in God? As Mark Twain said, “Faith is believing in something you damn well know aint true.” I have a point of view on this, but I’m more interested in what others have to say.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 35 (view)

Religion? God? Life? ...Confused? This may help Posted: 9/11/2005 9:40:23 AM
Hey, speaking of Idolatry, I think it curious that the monument of the Ten Commantment taken out of that courthouse is on tour accrose the U.S. and christians are climbing up on the flatbed trailer it's loaded on just to 'touch' it. Curious.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 13 (view)

God is a Myth Posted: 9/11/2005 9:21:34 AM
I hate to beat a dead horse, and I will concede I am in error, but primarily because I did not clearly state that I wanted this forum to pivot on the idea of God more than the personal concept or any other. So I am at fault in that. This too was inevitable, since the grammar police were called out, I invoke the Power of American Heritage, I site definition 2: myth (m th) KEY NOUN: 1. a. A traditional, typically ancient story dealing with supernatural beings, ancestors, or heroes that serves as a fundamental type in the worldview of a people, as by explaining aspects of the natural world or delineating the psychology, customs, or ideals of society: the myth of Eros and Psyche; a creation myth. b. Such stories considered as a group: the realm of myth. 2. A popular belief or story that has become associated with a person, institution, or occurrence, especially one considered to illustrate a cultural ideal: a star whose fame turned her into a myth; the pioneer myth of suburbia. 3. A fiction or half-truth, especially one that forms part of an ideology. 4. A fictitious story, person, or thing: "German artillery superiority on the Western Front was a myth" (Leon Wolff). Sorry for the confusion I caused.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 6 (view)

Just Daoism Posted: 9/11/2005 9:14:29 AM
wow, they Asteristed out b a starization? Didn't know it was a bad work in the context I used it in.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 5 (view)

Just Daoism Posted: 9/11/2005 9:13:08 AM
Actually, Koans are Zen, I used to explain Zen as a **stardization of Taoism and Buddhism, but recently I’m not as critical of Zen. I have learned since that some koans can’t be truly understood unless you know the history of Zen. If you see the Buddha on the street, kill him. This is such a koan. It was made popular in a time where many misinterpreted scripture to there own needs rather than for what the Buddha truly intended. The Joy of Fishes is a classic Taoist story revealing the limitations of philosophy and the greatness that can be attained when one follows the Tao in a natural state and then truly knows the joy of fishes as he walks along the same. I could give a more complete and detailed explanation, a Chinese play on words is also involved, but I don’t want to be a bore.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 9 (view)

adam and eve Posted: 9/11/2005 9:01:22 AM
Friv, what is the source for your info, I've found a different account. THE GNOSIS ARCHIVE Gnostic Studies on the Web -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Lilith Myth Presented here is a chapter discussing Lilith, taken from Hebrew Myths: The Book of Genesis by Robert Graves and Raphael Patai (New York: Doubleday, 1964), pp 65-69. Graves and Patai have collected traditional Hebrew myths that amplify (and sometimes radically alter) stories found in the Book of Genesis. This chapter, titled "Adam's Helpmeets", deals in part with the Lilith myth. Each section of the chapter excerpted here recounts a "story" collected from non-biblical sources, frequently the Talmud -- sources are footnoted. The footnotes are followed by notes of author commentary. Hebrew Myths, is currently out of print, but a used copy can often be found at Amazon.com -- search for a used copy of the book. (A much more extensive discussion of Lilith is found in the The Hebrew Goddess, also by Rapael Patai. The Hebrew Goddess is in print and is listed next....) The best detailed discussion and historical evaluation of the Lilith myth will be found in The Hebrew Goddess, by Raphael Patai (Wayne State University Press, 3rd edition, 1978). Patai presents an in-depth evaluation of the important but oft ignored role played by the feminine in Hebrew myth and religion, following the story of the Hebrew goddess from antiquity through its manifestations in Kabbalah and in the developing myth of Lilith. We highly recommend this work to those interested in the story of Lilith. Click here to Buy the Book Those interested in the Lilith myth might also find interesting an essay discussing Gnostic creation mythology and the important role played by the feminine in the unique Gnostic reading of the Book of Genesis: The Genesis Factor: Gnostic Creation Mythology. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The follow text is quoted from: Hebrew Myths by Robert Graves and Raphael Patai (New York: Doubleday, 1964), pp 65-69. Chapter 10: Adam's Helpmeets (a) Having decided to give Adam a helpmeet lest he should be alone of his kind, God put him into a deep sleep, removed one of his ribs, formed it into a woman, and closed up the wound, Adam awoke and said: 'This being shall be named "Woman", because she has been taken out o f man. A man and a woman shall be one flesh.' The title he gave her was Eve, 'the Mother of All Living''. 1 (b) Some say that God created man and woman in His own image on the Sixth Day, giving them charge over the world; 2 but that Eve did not yet exist. Now, God had set Adam to name every beast, bird and other living thing. When they passed before him in pairs, male and female, Adam-being already like a twenty-year-old man-felt jealous of their loves, and though he tried coupling with each female in turn, found no satisfaction in the act. He therefore cried: 'Every creature but I has a proper matel', and prayed God would remedy this injustice. 3 (c) God then formed Lilith, the first woman, just as He had formed Adam, except that He used filth and sediment instead of pure dust. From Adam's union with this demoness, and with another like her named Naamah, Tubal Cain's sister, sprang Asmodeus and innumerable demons that still plague mankind. Many generations later, Lilith and Naamah came to Solomon's judgement seat, disguised as harlots of Jerusalem'. 4 (d) Adam and Lilith never found peace together; for when he wished to lie with her, she took offence at the recumbent posture he demanded. 'Why must I lie beneath you?' she asked. 'I also was made from dust, and am therefore your equal.' Because Adam tried to compel her obedience by force, Lilith, in a rage, uttered the magic name of God, rose into the air and left him. Adam complained to God: 'I have been deserted by my helpmeet' God at once sent the angels Senoy, Sansenoy and Semangelof to fetch Lilith back. They found her beside the Red Sea, a region abounding in lascivious demons, to whom she bore lilim at the rate of more than one hundred a day. 'Return to Adam without delay,' the angels said, `or we will drown you!' Lilith asked: `How can I return to Adam and live like an honest housewife, after my stay beside the Red Sea?? 'It will be death to refuse!' they answered. `How can I die,' Lilith asked again, `when God has ordered me to take charge of all newborn children: boys up to the eighth day of life, that of circumcision; girls up to the twentieth day. None the less, if ever I see your three names or likenesses displayed in an amulet above a newborn child, I promise to spare it.' To this they agreed; but God punished Lilith by making one hundred of her demon children perish daily; 5 and if she could not destroy a human infant, because of the angelic amulet, she would spitefully turn against her own. 6 (e) Some say that Lilith ruled as queen in Zmargad, and again in Sheba; and was the demoness who destroyed job's sons. 7 Yet she escaped the curse of death which overtook Adam, since they had parted long before the Fall. Lilith and Naamah not only strangle infants but also seduce dreaming men, any one of whom, sleeping alone, may become their victim. 8 (f) Undismayed by His failure to give Adam a suitable helpmeet, God tried again, and let him watch while he built up a woman's anatomy: using bones, tissues, muscles, blood and glandular secretions, then covering the whole with skin and adding tufts of hair in places. The sight caused Adam such disgust that even when this woman, the First Eve, stood there in her full beauty, he felt an invincible repugnance. God knew that He had failed once more, and took the First Eve away. Where she went, nobody knows for certain. 9 (g) God tried a third time, and acted more circumspectly. Having taken a rib from Adam's side in his sleep, He formed it into a woman; then plaited her hair and adorned her, like a bride, with twenty-four pieces of jewellery, before waking him. Adam was entranced. 10 (h) Some say that God created Eve not from Adam's rib, but from a tail ending in a sting which had been part of his body. God cut this off, and the stump-now a useless coccyx-is still carried by Adam's descendants. 11 (i) Others say that God's original thought had been to create two human beings, male and female; but instead He designed a single one with a male face looking forward, and a female face looking back. Again He changed His mind, removed Adam's backward-looking face, and built a woman's body for it. 12 (j) Still others hold that Adam was originally created as an androgyne of male and female bodies joined back to back. Since this posture made locomotion difficult, and conversation awkward, God divided the androgyne and gave each half a new rear. These separate beings He placed in Eden, forbidding them to couple. 13 Notes on sources: 1. Genesis II. 18-25; III. 20. 2. Genesis I. 26-28. 3. Gen. Rab. 17.4; B. Yebamot 632. 4. Yalqut Reubeni ad. Gen. II. 21; IV. 8. 5. Alpha Beta diBen Sira, 47; Gaster, MGWJ, 29 (1880), 553 ff. 6. Num. Rab. 16.25. 7. Targum ad job 1. 15. 8. B. Shabbat 151b; Ginzberg, LJ, V. 147-48. 9. Gen. Rab. 158, 163-64; Mid. Abkir 133, 135; Abot diR. Nathan 24; B. Sanhedrin 39a. 10. Gen. II. 21-22; Gen. Rab. 161. 11. Gen. Rab. 134; B. Erubin 18a. 12. B. Erubin 18a. 13. Gen. Rab. 55; Lev. Rab. 14.1: Abot diR. Nathan 1.8; B. Berakhot 61a; B. Erubin 18a; Tanhuma Tazri'a 1; Yalchut Gen. 20; Tanh. Buber iii.33; Mid. Tehillim 139, 529. Authors’ Comments on the Myth: 1. The tradition that man's first sexual intercourse was with animals, not women, may be due to the widely spread practice of bestiality among herdsmen of the Middle East, which is still condoned by custom, although figuring three times in the Pentateuch as a capital crime. In the Akkadian Gilgamesh Epic, Enkidu is said to have lived with gazelles and jostled other wild beasts at the watering place, until civilized by Aruru's priestess. Having enjoyed her embraces for six days and seven nights, he wished to rejoin the wild beasts but, to his surprise, they fled from him. Enkidu then knew that he had gained understanding, and the priestess said: 'Thou art wise, Enkidu, like unto a godl' 2. Primeval man was held by the Babylonians to have been androgynous. Thus the Gilgamesh Epic gives Enkidu androgynous features: `the hair of his head like a woman's, with locks that sprout like those of Nisaba, the Grain-goddess.' The Hebrew tradition evidently derives from Greek sources, because both terms used in a Tannaitic midrash to describe the bisexual Adam are Greek: androgynos, 'man-woman', and diprosopon, 'twofaced'. Philo of Alexandria, the Hellenistic philosopher and commentator on the Bible, contemporary with Jesus, held that man was at first bisexual; so did the Gnostics. This belief is clearly borrowed from Plato. Yet the myth of two bodies placed back to back may well have been founded on observation of Siamese twins, which are sometimes joined in this awkward manner. The two-faced Adam appears to be a fancy derived from coins or statues of Janus, the Roman New Year god. 3. Divergences between the Creation myths of Genesis r and n, which allow Lilith to be presumed as Adam's first mate, result from a careless weaving together of an early Judaean and a late priestly tradition. The older version contains the rib incident. Lilith typifies the Anath-worshipping Canaanite women, who were permitted pre-nuptial promiscuity. Time after time the prophets denounced Israelite women for following Canaanite practices; at first, apparently, with the priests' approval-since their habit of dedicating to God the fees thus earned is expressly forbidden in Deuteronomy xxIII. I8. Lilith's flight to the Red Sea recalls the ancient Hebrew view that water attracts demons. 'Tortured and rebellious demons' also found safe harbourage in Egypt. Thus Asmodeus, who had strangled Sarah's first six husbands, fled 'to the uttermost parts of Egypt' (Tobit viii. 3), when Tobias burned the heart and liver of a fish on their wedding night. 4. Lilith's bargain with the angels has its ritual counterpart in an apotropaic rite once performed in many Jewish communities. To protect the newborn child against Lilith-and especially a male, until he could be permanently safeguarded by circumcision-a ring was drawn with natron, or charcoal, on the wall of the birthroom, and inside it were written the words: 'Adam and Eve. Out, Lilith!' Also the names Senoy, Sansenoy and Semangelof (meanings uncertain) were inscribed on the door. If Lilith nevertheless succeeded in approaching the child and fondling him, he would laugh in his sleep. To avert danger, it was held wise to strike the sleeping child's lips with one finger-whereupon Lilith would vanish. 5. 'Lilith' is usually derived from the Babylonian-Assyrian word lilitu, ,a female demon, or wind-spirit'-one of a triad mentioned in Babylonian spells. But she appears earlier as 'Lillake' on a 2000 B.G. Sumerian tablet from Ur containing the tale of Gilgamesh and the Willow Tree. There she is a demoness dwelling in the trunk of a willow-tree tended by the Goddess Inanna (Anath) on the banks of the Euphrates. Popular Hebrew etymology seems to have derived 'Lilith' from layil, 'night'; and she therefore often appears as a hairy night-monster, as she also does in Arabian folklore. Solomon suspected the Queen of Sheba of being Lilith, because she had hairy legs. His judgement on the two harlots is recorded in I Kings III. 16 ff. According to Isaiah xxxiv. I4-I5, Lilith dwells among the desolate ruins in the Edomite Desert where satyrs (se'ir), reems, pelicans, owls, jackals, ostriches, arrow-snakes and kites keep her company. 6. Lilith's children are called lilim. In the Targum Yerushalmi, the priestly blessing of Numbers vi. 26 becomes: 'The Lord bless thee in all thy doings, and preserve thee from the Lilim!' The fourth-century A.D. commentator Hieronymus identified Lilith with the Greek Lamia, a Libyan queen deserted by Zeus, whom his wife Hera robbed of her children. She took revenge by robbing other women of theirs. 7. The Lamiae, who seduced sleeping men, sucked their blood and ate their flesh, as Lilith and her fellow-demonesses did, were also known as Empusae, 'forcers-in'; or Mormolyceia, 'frightening wolves'; and described as 'Children of Hecate'. A Hellenistic relief shows a naked Lamia straddling a traveller asleep on his back. It is characteristic of civilizations where women are treated as chattels that they must adopt the recumbent posture during intercourse, which Lilith refused. That Greek witches who worshipped Hecate favoured the superior posture, we know from Apuleius; and it occurs in early Sumerian representations of the sexual act, though not in the Hittite. Malinowski writes that Melanesian girls ridicule what they call `the missionary position', which demands that they should lie passive and recumbent. 8. Naamah, 'pleasant', is explained as meaning that 'the demoness sang pleasant songs to idols'. Zmargad suggest smaragdos, the semi-precious aquamarine; and may therefore be her submarine dwelling. A demon named Smaragos occurs in the Homeric Epigrams. 9. Eve's creation by God from Adam's rib-a myth establishing male supremacy and disguising Eve's divinity-lacks parallels in Mediterranean or early Middle-Eastern myth. The story perhaps derives iconotropically from an ancient relief, or painting, which showed the naked Goddess Anath poised in the air, watching her lover Mot murder his twin Aliyan; Mot (mistaken by the mythographer for Yahweh) was driving a curved dagger under Aliyan's fifth rib, not removing a sixth one. The familiar story is helped by a hidden pun on tsela, the Hebrew for 'rib': Eve, though designed to be Adam's helpmeet, proved to be a tsela, a 'stumbling', or 'misfortune'. Eve's formation from Adam's tail is an even more damaging myth; perhaps suggested by the birth of a child with a vestigial tail instead of a coccyx-a not infrequent occurrence. 10. The story of Lilith's escape to the East and of Adam's subsequent marriage to Eve may, however, record an early historical incident: nomad herdsmen, admitted into Lilith's Canaanite queendom as guests (see 16. 1), suddenly seize power and, when the royal household thereupon flees, occupy a second queendom which owes allegiance to the Hittite Goddess Heba. The meaning of 'Eve' is disputed. Hawwah is explained in Genesis III. 20 as 'mother of all living'; but this may well be a Hebraicized form of the divine name Heba, Hebat, Khebat or Khiba. This goddess, wife of the Hittite Storm-god, is shown riding a lion in a rock-sculpture at Hattusaswhich equates her with Anath-and appears as a form of Ishtar in Hurrian texts. She was worshipped at Jerusalem (see 27. 6). Her Greek name was Hebe, Heracles's goddess-wife. -- Hebrew Myths by Robert Graves and Raphael Patai (New York: Doubleday, 1964), pp 65-69. Click here to Buy the Book \| GNOSIS ARCHIVE \| GNOSTIC SOCIETY LIBRARY \|

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 10 (view)

God is a Myth Posted: 9/11/2005 8:44:35 AM
lol, ok, good on the splitting hairs, but by calling God an entity you acknoledge His existence. Not totally clear on the grammatics of it, just want to be clear. Could I say the Loch Ness Monster is a myth? Or do I have to say the lock ness monster is mythical? I believe it was Homer Simpson who said and I paraphase, "Proving God exist is like proving elves or fairies or eskimoes."

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 76 (view)

A Challenge Posted: 9/11/2005 8:36:04 AM
I was pretty dissatisfied with Christianity, being raised fundamentalist, but every other religion I studied seemed to also be infected with some kind of dogmatic practice. Then I discovered Classic Taoism and was fortunate enough to find a great teacher. Then I was interestingly enough lead back to Christianity with the knowledge I could grow and learn from the lessons any belief system without accepting the dogma. What a great way to live and believe. This was years ago and I’ve been very satisfied with my faith since. Agnostics piss me off the most though. They have the most logical argument. Thank God it’s not a logical question.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 3 (view)

Just Daoism Posted: 9/11/2005 8:18:24 AM
psssst, it's Taoism. not Daoism,

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 7 (view)

God is a Myth Posted: 9/11/2005 8:06:50 AM
BTW, which bible? Who's bible? There are a number of them, I'm not limiting God to a narrow view of any particular sect.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 6 (view)

God is a Myth Posted: 9/11/2005 8:05:01 AM
Dag, Not splitting hairs, you missed my point.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 4 (view)

God is a Myth Posted: 9/11/2005 7:46:04 AM
Actually the bible is not "a book" it is a collection of books. How and why such books were included in the cannon and some were not is an interesting study. As well, the hebrew Torah includes the old testement books in a different order, which is very important considering the order the torah puts them in is more humanistic and less messianic..

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 1 (view)

God is a Myth Posted: 9/11/2005 6:53:53 AM
This title was used in an AOL chatroom once upon a time. It sparked quite a bit of spirited dicussion. (npi) Let's see what it does here.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 64 (view)

Explain to me Christians, About The Devil! Posted: 9/9/2005 5:38:53 PM
I suggest a study of what words are being translated as hell, Satan, etc. You will find that in the original text very little of the devil, Dante had more to do with the creation of the Xian Satan than the Biblical God.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 22 (view)

So many people use the phrase This is better than sex Posted: 9/9/2005 4:28:58 PM
I hate to say it, Don't want to sound like a wuss, but Oh hell here it goes......"Finding true love." yuck, now I got to lift some weights or work on a car or something.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 32 (view)

Free For All Poetry Contest ~ hosted by angelpurrrrs (aka Cats) Posted: 9/9/2005 6:54:00 AM
Actually it applies to more than one of the topics.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 28 (view)

Free For All Poetry Contest ~ hosted by angelpurrrrs (aka Cats) Posted: 9/8/2005 2:49:58 PM
Tightened it up a bit. could still stand a bit of revision, but unless asked, this will be my last revision of it on this thread. didn't think I'd keep working on it, looks like I got the bug. The Lingering The ghost of her rose petal lips still haunts my cheek, A specter fading in the night as she leaves For encounters in the darkness. This mansion of a body begs To be charmed by such artifacts Carelessly left. The smudge of lipstick remains sticky. Soft scent of lavender perfume mingles With remnants of her warm honeysweet breath Wafting down the gutters of this hollow shell To collect in rain barrows lined in dust. This house unfurnished, unlived in Bars the ghost of loves past who would love To linger, Of lovers who have lied to the candlelight And wrought ghastly shadows As they fled the bed chamber Their silhouettes merging Into one great darkness. Autumn’s days shorten And this shell creeks louder, Moans crying out as it’s supports grind and weaken. Rafters sag and repose resigning themselves To the inevitable end gravity and earth have prepared. The builder no longer maintains it. Owners long since have fled. Far too great a renovation Save for the builder of dreams.

robikus

Joined: 8/24/2005

Msg: 27 (view)

Free For All Poetry Contest ~ hosted by angelpurrrrs (aka Cats) Posted: 9/8/2005 12:48:40 PM
This could still probably use some work, first poem I've written in years. Not fully satisfied with the last verse but I'll post it just the same. The Lingering The ghost of her rose petal lips still haunts my cheek. A specter fading in the night as she leaves For encounters in the darkness. This mansion of a body begs To be charmed by such artifacts Carelessly left. The smudge of lipstick remains sticky. Sweet scent of flowery perfume Drips down the gutters of this hollow shell To collect in rain barrows lined in dust. This house unfurnished and unlived in Bars the ghost of loves past who love To linger. Who have lied to the candlelight. They wrought ghastly shadows As they fled the bed chamber. The shadows merging into one great darkness. Every autumn this house creeks louder, Moans crying out as it’s supports weaken. The builder no longer maintains it. Owners long since have fled. Far too great a renovation Save for the builder of dreams.

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