Coming to tearms with religion...gonna be a tough one.... chat & forums.

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cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 36 (view)

Coming to tearms with religion...gonna be a tough one.... Posted: 8/10/2008 8:25:36 PM
Its not that I hate god I just can't believe all the war that comes from it. I will keep those feelings under my hat until he is able to understand I just do not understand how people can feel just in bloodshed and righteous for it. I never thought it was right from ancient history until this day. All in his name and who thinks whats right on their end must be enforced unto another group of people its never ending and if god does exist I would lay money on it he is no happy camper with his children and their ways. My guy does follow his doctrine and it is our choice not to marry lol neither of us see fit to toss 20 grand at wedding costs lol. I will cope and know my son will find his own mind set I just don't want to turn him against it if you can dig that lol.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 32 (view)

Why is Heaven considered more desirable than Earth? Posted: 8/10/2008 8:04:25 PM
It is considered more desirable because its an idea that cannot be touched or known until death and human nature makes us want what it is that we can't have ergo making "heaven" and an afterlife there a most pleasant notion yes? Me thinks so.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 126 (view)

Has there been a song that really touched you spiritually? Posted: 8/1/2008 11:29:17 PM
If I could read your mind love what a tale your thoughts could tell just like an old time movie bout a ghost from a wishing well in a castle dark or a fortress strong with chains upon my feet you know that ghost is me and I will never be set free as long as I'm a ghost that you can't see.. -Gordon Lightfoot-if I could read you mind

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 676 (view)

Heaven??? Posted: 7/25/2008 7:53:11 PM
Nope. By their own doctrine they are not the only ones going to heaven...this is hypocritical...

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 830 (view)

Abortion Posted: 7/25/2008 7:46:53 PM
Hey "Dawg". Does the bible not say we are made in gods image? For the sake of arguement would the rapist hold the mothers hand during the production of another's life? What kind of life would be produced for that matter? Ever hear a story of the life of the unwanted? People like charles manson are the "byproduct" of being unwanted. I think god would feel pretty low if he made a charles manson just as a mother would that is being if she cared and what her personal life was made of, even a high society princess can make a life miserable if she doesn't want to be responsable for that child yet has it foisted upon her anyway. If she chooses to keep the child or give them to adoption great. It is HER choice. I think god (if he exsists) would like to have the choice. I am not saying it would all end bad because a woman was raped and a child resulted because of it I do believe however in the physcological point of veiw and its impact. Miserable situations and abusive ones can be a huge "byproduct" out of such situations and sorry bro that really, really shouldn't be shook off and any woman has the right and the choice in this day and age and others just kinda need to get over that fact and you know......deal with it! :)

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 122 (view)

Has there been a song that really touched you spiritually? Posted: 7/25/2008 7:23:31 PM
Yes there has been many. This one in particular wich is strange for me because I am by all means not a practitioner of religion lol: Through heavens eyes: Prince of egypt soundtrack. These are the verse's that most struct me for their truth (and not for their religeous values lol): The stone that sits on the very top of the mountains mighty face does he think he's more important than the stones that form the base? I like this verse it gives one something to think about, is it proper to feel larger than your fellow man even if you are a king, president, ceo ect. If a man were to loose everything he owns has he truely lost his worth? Or is it the begining of a new and brighter birth? This is a nice verse it gives reasoning. If you are bust don't feel so bad anything material can be replaced, you however can not be replaced and you can't take those things with you when the time comes so why greive for their loss? How do you measure the worth of a man in wealth or strength or size? By how much he gained? Or how much he gave? Don't judge someone on their belonging's or their status in life and it is important to give of yourself for the right reasons.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 557 (view)

Is there a god? Posted: 6/1/2008 9:09:08 PM
I think yes if one believes in god or his son (I always thought of them as two individuals lol) it must be taken blindly for there is no solid proof beyond ones faith. Look at every single culture alive today and the ones who laid the foundations for us. All of them have and did have ideals of what comes next and all of them have and had "gods" and an idea of a heaven or after world/after life an over world and an under world ect. The bible is a beautiful work of fiction and tales like any of these other cultures past and present and its completely in the hands and eyes of every person to hold their faiths godly or not. If you believe it and it feels good to your heart hold it close to you.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 202 (view)

What's your favourite quote? Posted: 4/28/2008 10:08:34 AM
Never look a gift horse in th mouth.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 94 (view)

Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer? Posted: 4/28/2008 9:58:53 AM
Yes, it was nostradamus whom made that predict. Along with that tid-bit the world thinks george "W" is the third man in power who will put the wheels in motion for the end of all things "armeggedon". Other predicts of note from our dear friend nostradamus: the invention of the motorcycle (men riding on the backs of iron horses), The birth of hitler, The death of kennedy ect that in alot of eyes did indeed come to pass as he predicted. Huge coincidence, maybe but maybe not. If the third great war happens well call me a true blue believer!

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 671 (view)

Heaven??? Posted: 4/26/2008 9:57:22 PM
Again I say no way in the pit of Hades. God, our savoir (in the veiws of those that are devout believers which I am not) made mankind in his image making all alike his children under HIS own doctrine. It would be a tad hypocritical of our savoir to deny so yes?

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 87 (view)

Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer? Posted: 4/26/2008 9:33:29 PM
I believe everyone who draws breath has a sixth sense it is your conscience/subconscience. If you know in your heart somethings amiss or you get that feeling that its not quite right butterflies in the stomach its best to listen to it chances and odds are those feelings are valid and your body is telling what the mind already knows, bail, get out, leave its wrong or hey something isn't right here best take a closer look my friend. Like a calm before the storm and everyone has it they just need pay attention to detail ergo when you mind and body are saying so listen to them they are indeed the closest friends to value in your life for you shall never own another set. Everyone has also had the feeling of deje-vu, I think normal. The feeling of I have been here, I have done this I have seen this before well we have all had it. The feeling of something coming ahead that we cannot quite touch yet we already know.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 399 (view)

Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven??? Posted: 10/23/2007 3:55:07 PM
OR in christian perspective/veiws (or how their bible puts it anyhow).

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 398 (view)

Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven??? Posted: 10/23/2007 3:51:30 PM
I know that raven lol but buddah is or was lol one of gods children and widely worshiped and god is the creator of heaven so I should imagine that buddah would possibly be in heaven (or zen lol).

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 386 (view)

Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven??? Posted: 10/22/2007 1:29:56 PM
Yes dear (can it be) but it says in your own "christian bible" that he welcomes all whom ask forgivness so its hypocritical of the christian religion to think its ALL for them because that im sorry is not true your own holy scriptures say that its untrue. All of humankind was supposed to be created by him all of us in his image so you know what? God is a muslim, buhdist, islamic, catholic christian and atheist and all of the others he is black, white, jewish, asian he is all of us if he is there in the first place.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 337 (view)

Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven??? Posted: 10/10/2007 7:23:14 PM
Thats it exactly Trippy hare. Why would he reject any one of his children and cast them from his home for being exactly what he knew they would be? Why would he turn his back on them if he created them in his image? Its a one track way of life to think that way after history has taught us that every race from every place in the world has an ideal of what happens after death weather it be good or bad (heaven/hell) they have an idea of heaven and hell and the peace and joy of heaven and the sorrows of a hell. Anyone anywhere in the world right now is telling their child a story from their own holy scriptures christian or not I think the christian god would be smiling on them and awaiting their arrival at his table in his house in his world of heaven.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 335 (view)

Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven??? Posted: 10/10/2007 6:55:07 PM
2 Corinthians 12:10 That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong. -God made man in his own image.^^As it is said -It is his will to forgive and we are not to judge -Also I'm sorry every person on earth has felt weakness. Everyone has insulted, persecuted wich gives a feeling of prowess and we have all at one time or another gave someone a hard time they didn't deserve and never appologized thats called guilt, remorse. I never said confession is a meal ticket either. One may confess to a dear friend and feel bliss and relief from doing so. That friend being one of gods children. Its also said that if a holy-man isn't present a friend or loved one may take his place to give last rights if they wish. -saying confession is not a mere way out for anyone even an islamic person dying in their bed might choose to accept christ its not at all in any way, shape or form an easy way out for them IT is their right in the eyes of god all the christian ways say so. Its hypocritical of them to even try and claim it for themselves or say you won't be saved if you don't convert because their own ways always say not to judge. confession is not a ticket to heaven, it is more of a cause and effect way for God's kingdom of love, peace and joy (heaven) to become imparted within the human soul.. namely (mind/emotions).

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 139 (view)

What Are Your Beliefs About Women Preachers/ Teachers Posted: 10/4/2007 9:29:00 PM
I don't think its nuts. Women are of powerful spiritual strength. I think that its good if they want that kind of living. I can't fathom why some people are actually so bent that they shouldn't be in that job-market. There are other examples than christianity alot of the midle eastern nations for instance do not even let the women pray in the same place as the men. Amish women educated to an 8th grade level only (in the area I live in oh yeah that strict believe it or not) afghani girls and women most certainly live a harsh life that way most not being allowed near schools (though it is very slowly changing). One would think that if the christian religion wanted to really thrive they would recruit as many female ministers as possible to help spread the good word so to speak.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 6 (view)

Do you believe in ghosts? Posted: 10/4/2007 8:12:45 PM
Not really. I have seen her for a long time before the living quarters were dismantled and the negative was seen. Just found it the creepiest damn thing that I had always took her for a figment but there she was after the doorframe came all off and the doorjams ect were removed. Like it was meant to be tucked there and it was really fragile man not sure from when but dude, little girl was standing there minus her doll. Very plainly clothed. Don't have the foggiest how to explain it other than its the girl from the family sofa thats seems to be there every christmas I can remember for yonks.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 326 (view)

Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven??? Posted: 10/4/2007 7:58:21 PM
And I am stating that if our thoughts and ideas are like his than the answer lies in the question. No they are not the only ones going to heaven. I also never said that we can't experience great joy and happiness in life but its not all christs doing for some. There are different sects of religion in the world and christians need to get a grip on that. Also their own ways of thinking always contradict what their bible says. Every way I have heard is pretty similar to eachother and always say that forgiveness is given when asked by anyone of gods children. Don't you think that other religeous sects have respect for life? Love, joy, peace and a feeling of holiness? I think that they do. Again it for some is not all of his doing but its written that forgiveness is given and that god loves ALL of his children. I don't believe in god. It doesn't matter he believes in you.. Ever hear of that?

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 3 (view)

Do you believe in ghosts? Posted: 10/4/2007 6:56:52 PM
Maybe they aren't all suffering though. There are so many tales of michevious ghosts some with humour. Like one of a small girl in a hotel who stacked tea cups and plates on top of eachother and made the only two occupants of that hotel decide it was time to leave.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 323 (view)

Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven??? Posted: 10/4/2007 6:27:33 PM
Cool ty I have issues with small things like that all the time. I will give it a go. ..My point was that anything that could conceive of and create anything as wondrous as our universe is beyond us (so far..I have high hopes)...there just isn't any way we humans could get close to emulating it. All we can do is try and learn I agree partly. I am kind of on the side of science when it comes to the universal expanse. Also in the way of science there is no way to see it all but thats not to say that the human mind is incapable of capturing it. Its my believe that the human mind isn't used entirely (scientific fact) and if people who are autistic can hear a symphony one time only and then play any one instrument to perfection from that symphony than anything can be possible from a human mind. It too is as uncharted as the heaven that so many believe in weather created by god or not. As for jw's well that is a similar point of veiw because its a certain number of people welcomed to their eden just as it is only christians who enter heaven (also limited to a number for not all peoples are christian). I respect your thoughts though they aren't lashing like some I have read in other threads with other topics/people. Your veiws are open to recieve the veiws of others and that rocks ravenstar you go girl!

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 137 (view)

What Are Your Beliefs About Women Preachers/ Teachers Posted: 10/4/2007 5:59:54 PM
Lol, Guy Overboard I didn't mean all men but I think history proves it with things like mass-witch burnings (most of the witches being female not to say men never burned for the same). Also never said that I wanted it to change back but the occuring change (with the christian religion in particular) is slow and drawn out because of what the majority of one gender thinks, the majority also being the religeous majority. I am not a conformist. I don't follow religion because it has always meant things like discourse instead of the peace it is supposed to be. Nothing caused worse wars and quarrels than religion has. But to say that there isn't a man ready to poop from above is wrong because it always happens, not that it is the fault of ALL men, just narrow ones.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 320 (view)

Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven??? Posted: 10/4/2007 5:41:13 PM
I just think that it is wrong to say that christain follewers are the only ones to claim that right. And its not god that shows us the nebula raven dear its science pure and simple wich is beautful and something to hold in awe in its own right. I do know this every single culture on "gods" earth has an ideal of god and also an ideal of what heaven is. Thats their right but if it is as christians say and they're the only ones welcome well then they have to contend with other believes that think the very same way. Don't jehovas witness's preach similar reteric? And how do you use the quote function ravenstar? lol I still haven't figured it out....

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 135 (view)

What Are Your Beliefs About Women Preachers/ Teachers Posted: 10/4/2007 5:22:09 PM
Trippy hare, I am an on and offer on the forums because my time requires for me to be so sometimes, I come on when I am able. From what I have read your not a dense man and you have sense and value beyond some of the dullards whom like to create a stink. Kudos to you man from what I have read you say your piece thats it and in this thread they seem fair enough to me. My spite can sometimes get the better of me on topics like this but I have come to realize that all you can do in the forums is say your piece and its best to leave it there. Some people are absolutely incapable of that. I think that some people in this thread think its their right to fling fecal-matter at others. Its simple to me, women aren't about to abandon post and certainly are not about to give up their civil liberties, rights and thats the way of it. Women will be teachers and they will preach and there will always be a man like some above to poop all over it.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 318 (view)

Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven??? Posted: 10/4/2007 4:37:06 PM
It is an error to think that our reward is what we take with us, because our reward is something that we have left in place that cannot be removed. No, I would have to strongly disagree. If we take a feeling of fullfillment with us than it is a gift. If humankind is made in the image of "god" than our feelings, thoughts and idea's should mirror his own. I know what christs accomplished but will begin a new thread for that. I don't think that he would turn anyone away from him if he were our father and held so much love and joy and regard for us. I think even if a black sheep our entire lives an outcast, a heathen even that he would welcome us if we asked it of him because its what "the holy bible" says. Many christian people try and twist it all around to suit themselves of course and there is a phrase for that: Self-serving. I think that alot of good christains are blinded by the message and take it to an extreamly judgemental place in their hearts. Is it not said do not judge for you too shall be judged? Well its judgemental to say that christians are the only persons welcomed to heaven because in many eyes (of course non-christian eyes) people who ask are forgiven be it jewish, muslim, catholic, christian, hindi, pagan, atheist or a massai warrior standing in red on african ground. We are all supposed to be his children right? Remember that when such a question arises. Alot of christian people think that they are the only people welcome to devine love and peace.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 132 (view)

What Are Your Beliefs About Women Preachers/ Teachers Posted: 10/4/2007 4:02:42 PM
Its the pot calling the kettle black when someone says that a woman is incapable to teach or to preach southernangel and I think if they would loose their grip on their veiws they could learn many great things from women preachers/teachers.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 131 (view)

What Are Your Beliefs About Women Preachers/ Teachers Posted: 10/4/2007 3:59:53 PM
I think what southern angel needs is guidance in her question I don't think that she meant to make such a fuss. But of course one will happen with such a question. I think southernangel ^like my above post some of the strongest lessons learned in life come from women. I'm not a hard-core feminist but Do think that the male gender has always precieved that women (particularly in christian veiw and historical) are lesser beings therefore aren't good teachers or are not worthy to be preachers. Women used to be stoned, burned, tortured for being what was considered against the holy scriptures (teachers/preachers). You know what would be emensely ironic, if every man whom held such a veiw got to heaven to greet a god thats a woman.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 316 (view)

Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven??? Posted: 10/3/2007 11:18:07 PM
its like winning the lottery and never being able to spend one cent of it, and also not having anyone to leave it to that could benefit from the money. Now thats quite a perspective. Is the prospect of going to heaven not tied to the afterlife? Now if you were raised muslim and then had at change of heart in the end and asked forgiveness wouldn't you see your life as well spent? Worth every penny if you will? If you lived true to your believes and followed your own way making the divine choice in the end? I would feel like a million. I would also feel rich in the knowlage that I did right by my parents (a most christian virtue) and I lived with their love even if I chose my own way at the last minute.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 314 (view)

Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven??? Posted: 10/3/2007 10:46:15 PM
I agree with you oldsoul. I think that the christian religion is action-packed with issues. I personally think if there is a god and heaven that christains aren't the only ones welcome there. If anything the bible states the opposite. I said it above, anyone who asks divine forgiveness of christ is supposed to be welcomed into the kingdom of heaven. Christianity however thinks otherwise. It makes my blood boil to think of the hipocracies. I think if its true and all that then anyone any race colour or religion would go to heaven if they ask for it like the bible says.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 313 (view)

Are Christians the only ones going to Heaven??? Posted: 10/3/2007 10:27:17 PM
Yeah man he died on the cross. But doesn't the bible say if you are of mankind and ask for his forgiveness then you will receive it? Yes. Then why does that not include all human kind for christains? I think even if a muslim asks at their death and he were truely there he would take their hand in his, if he were true to his word they would walk with him I don't care even if a jewish person were to ask then they should recieve. It would be pure hypocracy if he didn't welcome all whom ask him.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 113 (view)

What Are Your Beliefs About Women Preachers/ Teachers Posted: 10/3/2007 10:04:28 PM
Im weirdly reminded of what a great man once said about the female gender, mothers in particular: Mother is the name for god on the lips and hearts of all children. (Brandon Lee, The Crow). What better teachers have any of us had than our mothers? Mother earth Mother earth incarnate The godess Demeter and of course her daughter Persephone Many natives will refer to all female elders as mother. Mother superior (head mother) Teachers to all new recruits of the catholic doctrine African tribes call their home land of Africa "Mother Africa" Mother Mary Mother to the massiah himself, our lord and savoir christ (not that I practice religion) In many life circles Mothers, women, sisters and girls have been the very backbone of many of mans strength and weakness's. Legend and lore of history truer and falser alike (hence words like legend and lore we know of its basic truths but of course time requires embelishments and some is lovely myth but strong none the less). Truths: Budica gave the roman empire one heck of a run for its money before their legions finally crushed her army. She was a mother and a teacher in her own right Joan of arc had a male dominant army at her hip. They must have loved her to have accepted her into their circle they must truely have believed in her because any other woman of the era would have been led her death asap and she held the french army in her palm AND gave them some success while she was at it. Women burned for less in Joans day the pity about poor Joan was she was burned when no longer of use to the king of France. Cleopatra took out not one but two of the biggest influences in rome. She bore Julius Ceasar a son. After his assasination she took up with Marc Anthony and gave Agustus quite a go before she committed suicide. She assended the throne at a mere 17 and held firm till her death. She was smart to gain Anthony's confidence. I think she truely did love Ceasar and when he was murdered she knew there wouldn't be much safety so by hooking up with Marc Anthony she saved her realm if only for awhile. Elizabeth the daughter of Henery the eigth and Anne Bowlin took the cake for queens of England. She brought wealth and eventual peace to her realm. She held firm to her believes and never married or bore children much to the dismay of her male (all male most likey) council members not that there weren't any efforts even for her part. She cut off all threat against her crown quickly and defeated the spanish armada a great victory and feat for any army of the time. Hapchetsut another great queen of Egypt hauled stone monuments across her kingdom some so large archiologists and scholars alike had trouble in trying to haul stone of similar stature in reinactments. Time and again failing to do exactly what an ancient queen did in her time. Betty page. Top pin up in her day she boomed onto the scene (or obscene depending how you look at it, though Betty was a devout believer in Jesus) and dominated the pin up girl market and is still worshiped as kind of icon to this day. If you get called a Betty its a huge compliment. Betty taught the world that even the obscene has its place in life and that the nude human form is nothing to be digusted by, in the Nototrious Betty Page film Gretchen Moll's character of Betty said it right: Adam and Eve were naked in the garden of eden, it was when they sinned they put on clothes. In myth: Helen brought the entire agean fleet to the great walls of Troy. Delilah brought Sampson to his knees. Isis is the mother godess. Calypso kept king Odyssus from reaching his goal of home. Demeter created seasons. Some really do think that Mary Magdolin was more than friend to Jesus. The godess's Hera, Athena and Aphrodite made Paris choose the fairest. Kasandra foresaw the doom of Atlantis. Just some food for thought when it comes to the influence and standing of the female gender in our own lives, in history and some of the most remarkable stories and literature. We are mothers, sisters, wives, lovers. We are teachers AND preachers and like it or lump it we have the SAME right in the wrold today and well I give kudos to every woman who chooses her life to preach or to teach. Just one question though...why have men always had a chip about women preachers/teachers/women in any sort of post like ones forementioned? .

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 1 (view)

Do you believe in ghosts? Posted: 9/30/2007 12:11:35 AM
I do. Alot of people think I am a nut but I think that ghosts hang around after death. I wouldn't want to guess all of the reasons but I think that they stay for the ones that they love or for what they have long since lost. Perhaps its a soul mourning or waiting for their release. I have seen one in my family's home and something found later in my family's home only cemented that I have indeed seen a ghost. Every christmas when I was a small girl myself I would come out into the hallway like any kid at christmas and look at the tree and presents and when I did one year I seen a young girl on the sofa in the livingroom. Plainly dressed holding her doll. I seen her every year after since then most often attributing it to lack of sleep or too much wine when I got older untill my father refinished our livingroom and in the doorframe was an old photo negative of a small girl, in plain dress in the front of our family's home. The only thing missing in that negative is the doll it is the girl I have seen since I was a kid. Sometimes we would joke when something would move in the house oh there goes henry our ghost! I reflect now that it was no henry it was a henriette.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 30 (view)

Coming to tearms with religion...gonna be a tough one.... Posted: 9/29/2007 11:53:40 PM
I am getting much better and my son even if I have a time with my believes in god is the most precious thing, it must have been something devine that knew I needed him even if it wasn't god himself. I still have hard veiws when it comes to one god or the thoughts that he or they exsist, as I am sure some of you remember I am as likely to believe I will cross the styx as I am to believe in god but something after life yes I do think so.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 301 (view)

Are Posted: 9/29/2007 11:23:27 PM
So that should include all human kind. Never mind faith, colour, race or place if you are humankind and ask for his divine forgiveness it shall be received or so is said by the christian doctrine.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 300 (view)

Are Posted: 9/29/2007 11:19:36 PM
As I understand it anyone who asks forgiveness for their sins is forgiven regardless of their faith.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 317 (view)

Was Hitler a Christian? Posted: 10/21/2006 10:31:17 AM
Hitler was a madman. I don't believe that whatever religion he was delt in how he became such a huge power in his time nor why he was a madman. He was an old defeated man in the end whom many speculate had parkinsons and comitted suicide with his wife in order to escape any punishment for his crimes.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 94 (view)

Why can't people have an opinion? Posted: 9/3/2006 9:09:59 PM
Cool beans jacobb. Budists say that all life is suffering and to take away desire is to releave ones self of suffering. Its a good example of free opinion (I know a bunch are going to throw back how opinionated it is but anyways) I don't even agree with alot of religion because its an ongoing arguement and warpath but budism seems to gravitate around peace and widely accepts the opinions of other faiths.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 9 (view)

Calling all Roman Catholics: Posted: 9/3/2006 8:58:51 PM
Hey pina, I am not a devout hard core catholic (don't believe theres a need for religion) but I don't like when people of the christian faith put down the catholic faith. I do however believe in my roots in the catholic church, my own father was taught in his school in Newfoundland by nuns and went to church on the regular. Its of the same base as christianity and i don't think that they have any right to be judgemental against any other faith because their own faith says that thou shalt not judge (as does the catholic faith). I find them to be an emense critic of the catholic faith however and I find it rather hypocritical that alot of them seem to think that catholic faith is no better than dirt but they come from the same roots, two sides of the same coin. I do think that devout catholics should be proud of their heritage because its a very old one and quite alot of the worlds population follows it. The catholic doctrine may be a strict one in some places but they have lightened up ( especially since the spanish inquisition lol) and its not one of the worst faiths that one could follow (I could mention a few but that would be bias). I go to christmas mass once a year with my man and his grandma and its not so bad (I haven't set on fire yet) I think that the togetherness and warmth are inviting. I am not the type to go but the once a year though but its not a bad thing at all. My man told me he was on a site on the net once and it totaled how many people in the world are catholic and i think it was past one billion so thats not a bad count. People have been following this faith and have even died to keep its position in the world (when elizabeth presented the prodastant religion as englands one religion, for those who don't know that would be henery the eighths daughter by ann bowlin) and its not at all as bad as some christians make it out to be (not all christians but some).

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 78 (view)

The pedofiles among us Posted: 9/2/2006 2:03:30 PM
I on most inane run of the mill stuff do not agree with society, I for the most part think alot of what society pushes is crap. I do agree with its stance that when it comes to touching a child its sick, wrong, disgusting and not even human. Its in the same ballpark as people who hurt animals they don't know why its happening or why the ahole is hurting them and nither does a child. They are truely innocent to what monsters are out there and yeah parents should be afraid of it considering there are so many resources for theese whack-jobs and they have their ways of making it seem they belong in a certain place like a school-yard or ballpark or even a chucky-cheeses they are everywhere that anyone else is allowed to be and most of the time they aren't questioned, they have forums on the net and even gathering places to meet and exchange their perversities. I think that they need to be punished much more harshly when they are caught but there are far to many human rights activists who are helping them, too many laws that protect them and not enough is being done about it. For instance its ok for them to own a computer after release in most cases, they only get a slap on the wrist say maybe a two-three year scentance after scarring someone for life. There are people who think its wrong for police to lure theese sickos. I say go for it because what if it is a child they end up on chat lines with and they do end up meeting with them? I don't think its entrapment in the least. They know what they are going to do if they snag somebody's kid so I think its great if they end up in a pair of cuffs after thinking they are going to get away with what they were intending to do. I believe there should be more stings on theese sick mother f*ers and more should be done to prevent their release onto the streets.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 75 (view)

The pedofiles among us Posted: 9/1/2006 10:33:47 AM
Oh man I hate pedophiles!! If I had my way some pretty sadistic stuff would befall them all both male and female I don't care they're sick for thinking that wee children would even have any idea of what sex is or why adults do it. Anyone ever touched my son I'd have their head on a plate. Did you ever see that show on w5 with a sick fat old fart saying that its society who doesn't let children "enjoy" sex or experience it and that its wrong for people to do because if kids were allowed to experience sex it would all be normal to them and it should be a normal pert of everyday life for them just like it is for an adult. YEAHH mmmkay buddy so you want for people to allow a disgusting old pig like you to diddle their precious babies and children because you think it should be ok for you to do so? I'd thump him if I ever seen him I think he lives in alberta, who knows dreams come true all the time so maybe I'll bump into him one day and get to beat the snot out of him. I will always be very careful of who watches my son. I most likely won't even go back to work till hes at least four years old and I will never trust anyone but my mom or sister or boyfriends mom to babysit for me. I would hate to be the person who thought that they had the right to molest my child I would teach them a very painful long drawn out lesson of why they should have thought twice about it before laying a hand on my baby.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 430 (view)

Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing? Posted: 8/30/2006 8:08:38 AM
What is the info that you post late? Is most of whats read on the net not considered by you as a second rate info source? Yeah it was from rotten so what. Prove every source that you post from as 100% credable and absolutely straight from the horses mouth. Hezbollah wants to destroy not only israel but the west too does that not concern you in the least? Cotter just because the israelis were supposedly supposed to leave the area doesn't make any kind of terrorism the right thing to do. People suffer from terrorism and terror groups every day and theres no need for it. You can call them what you will but I call them murderers, terrorists and just plain arrogant. Hezbollahs agenda will only lead to more blood shed no matter how many want to toss the whole ball of wax at israel its not only their fault that the violence is occuring. Hezbollah always has underhanded ways of making it appear as if they are do-gooders but in reality they're just as evil as every other terror group in the world so why are they so right? Hezbollahs options don't count them out yet Dan Darling ONE OF THE MORE SURPRISING ASPECTS of the conflict between Israel and Hezbollah has been the fact that, to date, neither side has been willing to deploy all of the assets at their disposal to destroy the enemy. While this is easy enough to understand in regard to Israel, given that the Jewish state belongs to the civilized community of Western nations, it is less understandable in the case of Hezbollah. While Hezbollah's leadership, most notably Secretary-General Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, have threatened "open war" against Israel, his organization's actions do not yet appear to have reached that point. This is not to say that Hezbollah has exercised restraint, but rather to acknowledge that the organization possesses at its disposal an international terrorist network every bit as ruthless and as deadly as Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda. According to the 2005 Patterns of Global Terrorism report issued by the State Department, Hezbollah has "established cells in Europe, Africa, South America, North America, and Asia," cells that could be called upon to act against Israeli or Jewish targets worldwide. In the past Hezbollah has been implicated (along with its Iranian backers) for the Buenos Aires bombings of an Israeli embassy and a Jewish cultural center in 1992 and 1994 respectively. These attacks, which killed 90 civilians, demonstrate the broad reach of Hezbollah even inside countries that do not possess large Muslim or Shiite populations. In 1999, Argentina issued an arrest warrant for Hezbollah operations chief Imad Mugniyeh in connection with both attacks, but he remains at large. Nor should it be assumed that U.S. targets are necessarily safe. At least one member of Lebanese Hezbollah is alleged by the U.S. government to have assisted in the bombing of Khobar Towers, which killed 19 Americans. The ability of Hezbollah to operate with ease in countries such as Argentina and Saudi Arabia is a testament to their capabilities. It is also worth recalling the 1998 indictment of Osama bin Laden which alleged that al Qaeda "forged alliances . . . with the government of Iran and with its associated group Hezballah to 'work together against their perceived common enemies in the West, particularly the United States.'" Given the claims in the 9/11 Commission's final report that "there are also signs that al Qaeda played some role, as yet unknown" in the Hezbollah-supported Khobar Towers bombing, it is not unreasonable to suggest that al Qaeda might at some point assist Hezbollah. SO FROM A STRATEGIC PERSPECTIVE, why has Hezbollah not pulled out all the stops? The answer may lie in the group's organizational decision-making process, the clearest picture of which is given in the 2001 indictment of the Khobar Towers plotters. As the indictment makes clear, surveillance for potential Hezbollah targets was reported to Iranian officials; the planning for terrorist attacks was supported and directed by serving members of the Iranian military, likely the elite Qods Force unit charged with carrying out Iran's extra-territorial operations. A similar patterns emerges in the investigations into the Buenos Aires bombings. The decision-making apparatus for Hezbollah is most likely located not in Lebanon, but in Tehran. The likely Iranian rationale for keeping the focus of the conflict on the Levant has more to do more with their desire to retain Hezbollah's international terrorist arm as a reserve force (in case of an attack against their nuclear facilities) than with their eagerness to keep the violence from spreading. www.weeklystandard.com But I am most sure this isn't a credable source either........

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 415 (view)

Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing? Posted: 8/26/2006 3:57:01 PM
Ok Teirran if hezbollah is so righteous then why does their organization have a need for suicide bombers on us/israeli organizations/military? If they weren't terrorists they wouldn't feel the need to subject peoples on either end to countless terrorist acts. I don't think that post was at all ignorant. I think that you show alot of ignorance to what hezbollah really is. Hezbollah used terrorist tactics to push its political agenda, which slowly but surely drove Israel out of Lebanon, inch by bloody inch. It became famous as an innovator in suicide bombing, as well as kidnapping Westerners, hijacking aircraft, and other terrorist activity. A 1983 terrorist bombing in Beirut that killed 241 Marines has been tied to Hezbollah and Iran (although it's also been tied to half a dozen other groups as well). This attack is widely considered to mark the dawn of the modern age of terrorism. After a similar attack in 1984, the tough-talking Reagan Administration got the hell out of Lebanon, an embarrassing retreat that most Americans don't like to talk about or even remember. As terrorist organizations are wont, Hezbollah slowly but surely spread its reach into other countries, sending operatives to the United States and elsewhere. One such Hezbollah spy was named Ali Boumelhem. After moving to Michigan, Boumelhem went to U.S. gun shows and illegally bought weapons for shipment overseas (he was a naturalized U.S. citizen, but had a felony conviction which made it illegal for him to buy weapons). Several other Lebanese immigrants in Michigan were charged with sending money and supplies to Hezbollah, which the U.S. government officially designated a terrorist organization in 1996. The problem with that declaration was that the horse had already long fled the barn. In fact, the horse had fled the barn, run around for a while and come back of its own free will. Through the late 1980s and early 1990s, Hezbollah's "terrorist" phase was at its height, with suicide bombings and hostage-taking galore. After Lebanon's civil war officially ended, however, the organization began repackaging itself as a legitimate political party that had sprung from what it argued was a legitimate revolutionary movement. While it seems patently obvious to Western observers that Hezbollah is a terrorist operations, what with the bombings and kidnappings, that presumption is far less obvious to governments in the Middle East and Asia, not to mention the people of Lebanon. As a 2003 report by the Brookings Institution notes: Syria and Iran openly support (Hezbollah), and much of the Arab world regards it as heroic, for its successful resistance against the Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon (the only time that Arab arms have forced Israel to surrender territory), and legitimate, because of its participation in Lebanese parliamentary politics. Even officials in France, Canada, and other Western nations have acknowledged the value of its social and political projects. That same report, however, clearly defined the group as perhaps the pre-eminent terror organization in the world, with operational cells all over Europe, Latin America and North America. But when the group won eight seats in the Lebanese parliament in 1992, it gained that crucial legitimacy which made it much more entrenched. The decision to abandon its call for a strict Islamic fundamentalist government made Hezbollah palatable to Lebanon's Christians and Sunni Muslims. Its focus on social services in a country with virtually no government infrastructure made it flat-out popular. Not many terrorist organizations have their own television network. Hezbollah does. They run Al-Minar ("the lighthouse"), a worldwide satellite TV station from Lebanon. And its successes against Israel made the organization into an icon across the Middle East. In 2000, Israel withdrew the last of its troops from Lebanon, a development almost entirely credited to Hezbollah. Hezbollah today is led by Hassan Nasrallah, who styles himself as "secretary-general of the party," a clear sign that the group isn't planning to yield its veneer of respectability any time soon. As a young man, Nasrallah studied in Iraq with a radical Shi'ite cleric named Muhammad Baqir al-Sadr (whose nephew Muqtada al-Sadr is currently making life difficult for the United States in Iraq). Nasrallah was involved in the first efforts to beat the Israelis back from their occupation of Lebanon, but the original Hezbollah revolutionary cadre soon split over whether or not to accept a non-Islamic government in the country (he voted for "not"). With support from the governments of Syria and Iran, Nasrallah soon regained control over the organization. He used terroristic tactics, with often brutal efficiency, to ensure that the cost of occupying Lebanon was a steadily increasing body count. By 1992, Nasrallah was ready to drop his insistence on theocracy, which helped move Hezbollah into the mainstream of Lebanese politics. Once in the parliament, Hezbollah began funding social services and charitable work in the country out of its own pockets (or rather, out of the pockets of Iran and Syria). The charitable work was assisted by a network of expatriates and non-governmental organizations similar to the one employed by al Qaeda. The legitimate face of Hezbollah makes it difficult for the West to directly confront the ongoing problem of its sponsorship of global terrorism and its extensive organization of training camps for terrorist operatives. You'd think the same factor would inhibit Hezbollah from directly confronting the U.S., but you'd be wrong. Both before and after September 11 threw a sharp focus on the issue of global terrorism, Nasrallah maintained a steady stream of virulent anti-American and anti-Israeli rhetoric (to him, there is no difference between the two). Nasrallah has said Hezbollah is proud to be called a terrorist organization by the "Great Satan." He has repeatedly argued that the United States is the cause of all Lebanon's woes. In the wake of the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003, he explained that "death to America is not a slogan. Death to America is a policy, a strategy and a vision." Despite all this, Washington has wisely decided not to press its "zero tolerance" terrorism policy in Lebanon... yet. The problem with the policy is, of course, the implication that zero terrorism will be tolerated. While an admirable notion, the practical application of zero tolerance is a decidedly tricky thing, especially in the ever-ready-to-explode environment of the Middle East. Hezbollah and al Qaeda are known to have cooperated in the past, but it doesn't appear they have worked together closely. The main reason for this is sectarian. al Qaeda is mostly made up of Sunni Muslims and Hezbollah is mostly Shi'ite Muslims. However, there is a recent trend for Sunnis and Shi'ites to cooperate against a common enemy, i.e., the United States, so don't be surprised if something more turns up. President Bush's April 2004 decision to endorse an extremely unpopular Israeli plan to withdraw from Palestinian territories can only inflame Hezbollah further. But in the final analysis, the outcome of the Iraq war will likely determine the organization's future. If the U.S. pulls off an increasingly unlikely "happy ending" in Iraq by installing a democratic West-friendly regime that makes oil plentiful and allows America to base forces on its soil, the "War On Terrorism World Tour" will likely set its gunsights next on Syria and Iran -- Hezbollah's primary state sponsors. If that happens, the global network of Hezbollah will almost certainly get its second test in an all-out war on America. Hezbollah's infrastructure within the U.S. has mostly given logistic support a very focused and successful guerilla war against Israel employing terror tactics. As a fighting force, the sleepers haven't been tested. The post-9/11 dragnet certainly swept up some of those sleeper agents, but how many? And Hezbollah's high-impact, high-body count strategy has already caused the U.S. to turn tail and run once before. Let's hope we don't find out whether it could happen again. www.rotten.com I believe they could make a very high body count and are just waiting for the right time to make such a strike against israel/us/canada I think we haven't seen the worst of their terror yet.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 394 (view)

Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing? Posted: 8/24/2006 7:26:55 PM
Thanks cotter. I know alot of people do not see hezbollah the way that I do and I do see them no differently from the taliban-hamas and other smaller terror guided groups. They all have similar (when it comes to warring and terrorism) doctrine and all of the good things that they do come at a price at some time or another. All the stuff I see on the news and read on the net makes my blood boil sometimes because in the media especially people make it out to be ALL israels fault and like the dead on israels side do not matter the way that the lebanese dead do. They have loved ones and are mothers fathers sons and daughters and were every bit as innocent as the lebanese dead and the media makes it out like its so much more meaningful to make a bigger deal about the lebanese peoples suffering. I think that they need to pay equal attention to the suffering of both nations innocents and deceased. Put aside who I think started it (and still don't think they're right) and look at both sides its horrific and inhumaine that wars like the one between israel and lebanon even have a need to exsist. If you've ever seen (i know this is from left-feild lol) gone with the wind? Ashley had it so right when he said: Look at all of the wars that have happened in the world, when those wars were over no one really knew what they were about. I think it has some truth.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 388 (view)

Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing? Posted: 8/24/2006 5:16:21 PM
I find it very interesting that hezbollah is to most of the world not a terrorist organization and yet they want for people to simply turn a blind eye to the brutal malicious things that have have done in the past for their holy war. They even turn their religion into something ugly. Granted I am not a religeous person but I think that they use the more violent reteric in their quran to justify their "cause". I think that hezbollah wouldn't know how to lead a civil life after so many being fed the line that its ok to kill and to take on the non-believers with all that they've got and its ok to kill an infidel because they do not believe what you do and you're killing them is the right way. I think that they use it as an excuse to attack israel and then get angry at them for defending themselves because people in lebanon are dying. Well people in israel are dying and have died aswell and its so maddening that its alright for that to happen in alot of peoples eyes. I just wish they would crack an eye and see that death on either end has happened and its not the fault of civilians on either side of the mess. If hezbollah is going to go hard core politics and gaining favor that way then I pity the people of lebanon because if they gain more and more power that way how long will it be before they get exactly what they want-Total control over the lebanese people and join further with iran and iraq and do their burning desire and try to take out israel. The loss of life would be staggaring for all nations involved.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 356 (view)

Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing? * Posted: 8/22/2006 4:51:08 PM
I found this info on a human rights watch site pretty interesting considering above posts that only the lebanese are being harmed (not that it is a good thing that they are but its just like I said people on both sides get hurt)... New York, August 5, 2006) – Hezbollah must immediately stop firing rockets into civilian areas in Israel, Human Rights Watch said today. Entering the fourth week of attacks, such rockets have claimed 30 civilian lives, including six children, and wounded hundreds more. “Lobbing rockets blindly into civilian areas is without doubt a war crime,” said Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch. “Nothing can justify this assault on the most fundamental standards for sparing civilians the hazards of war.” Hezbollah claims that some of its attacks are aimed at military bases inside Israel, which are legitimate targets. But most of the attacks appear to have been directed at civilian areas and have hit pedestrians, hospitals, schools, homes and businesses. Since July 12, when Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers and killed eight, Human Rights Watch researchers have been documenting the war’s impact on civilians in Israel and Lebanon, interviewing the witnesses and survivors of attacks, as well as doctors, emergency workers, police, military and government officials. As of August 4, Hezbollah had launched a reported 2,500 rockets into predominantly civilian areas in northern Israel. Some longer-range rockets landed as far south as the city of Hadera, some 85 km from the border. Hezbollah announced that it had attacked Hadera on August 4 in retaliation for an Israeli air raid in Lebanon earlier that day that reportedly killed more than 20 farm workers. Yesterday, Hezbollah’s leader, Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah, offered to stop bombing Israel’s “northern settlements” if the Israeli military stopped bombing Lebanon’s “cities and civilians.” He also warned that an Israeli attack on Beirut would result in Hezbollah bombing Tel Aviv. CIVILIANS KILLED BY HEZBOLLAH ROCKETS JULY 12 - AUG 4 In a report issued on August 3, “Fatal Strikes: Israel’s Indiscriminate Attacks Against Civilians in Lebanon,” Human Rights Watch documented a systematic failure by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) to distinguish between combatants and civilians. In some cases, the timing and intensity of the attack, the absence of a military target, as well as subsequent strikes on rescuers, suggest that Israeli forces deliberately targeted civilians. Yesterday, Israeli bombing reportedly killed at least 40 civilians in Lebanon. “Human Rights Watch has documented the Israeli military’s persistent use of indiscriminate force, which has killed hundreds of Lebanese civilians,” Roth said. “But war crimes by one side in a conflict never justify war crimes by another. Hezbollah must stop using the excuse of Israeli misconduct to justify its own.” Northern Israel, an area populated by about one 1 million people, has come to a virtual standstill because of Hezbollah’s rockets, which are exacting an enormous human and economic toll. Authorities believe that up to half the population has left the area, while the rest are living in constant fear of the air raid sirens that warn of attacks. Human Rights Watch said many of those who remain in northern Israel are unable to leave because they don’t have relatives elsewhere in the country or the resources to pay for alternative accommodation. Some stay behind to care for relatives who are disabled or infirm, or because they work as emergency and medical personnel. “Who is left here in Kiryat Shmona; the weakest part of the population,” Shimon Kamari, the deputy mayor of Kiryat Shmona, only a few kilometers from the northern border, told Human Rights Watch. “The elderly and those who can’t afford hotels, because to stay for such a long time is very expensive.” Hezbollah has fired three different types of weapons at Israel so far. The vast majority are 122mm Katyusha rockets, while 220mm Fajr rockets have landed in the cities of Haifa and Nazareth. Hezbollah has also fired several 302mm Khaiber-1 rockets; the first of these landed on July 28 in empty areas near Afula, 50 km south of the border, and another wave hit near Hadera on August 4. In addition, Hezbollah said it had fired Khaiber-1 rockets at Beit Shean on August 2. Some of the rockets, such as those that killed eight rail workers in Haifa on July 16 and two young brothers in Nazareth on July 19, have warheads packed with thousands of metal ball bearings that spray out from the blast. Launched on civilian areas, the ball bearings are intended to inflict maximum harm. Under international humanitarian law – also known as the laws of war – parties to an armed conflict must not make the civilian population the object of attack, or fire indiscriminately into civilian areas. Nor can they launch attacks that they know will cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects that exceeds the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated. Such attacks constitute war crimes. Latest Victims In attacks on August 4, Hezbollah reportedly fired more than 200 rockets, killing three people. According to media reports, two men, aged 24 and 32, died and several were wounded when a rocket hit a restaurant in the Druze village of Majdal Krum. In another strike, a 27-year-old mother of two, Manal Azem, died around 2:15 p.m. when a rocket struck in the Druze village of Mrar. One and a half weeks ago, a 15-year-old girl, Daa Abbas, also died in Mrar when a rocket hit her home. On August 3, eight people died in two rocket attacks. In one attack in Acre, five people died: Shimon Zaribi, 44; his 15-year-old daughter Mazal; Albert Ben-Abu, 41; Ariyeh Tamam, 50; and Ariyeh’s brother Tiran, 39. Human Rights Watch interviewed Ariyeh Tamam’s wife, Tzvia, who was wounded in the attack. She told Human Rights Watch how the rocket killed her husband and brother-in-law, and wounded her sister-in-law, Simcha, and her eight-year-old daughter, Noa: It destroyed our entire family. My husband is dead; his brother is dead; their sister is in a lot of pain. My disabled mother-in-law is devastated – Simcha also used to be her main caregiver. The kids are traumatized forever. We don’t have a bomb shelter in our building, so when the sirens started, we went to the shelter in my aunt’s building on Ben Shushan Street. After the first rocket fell, and the siren stopped, we went out of the shelter to have a look. My daughter was standing near me, at the entrance, but Ariyeh went closer to the street. Suddenly, there was another loud boom and pieces of metal flew everywhere. I didn’t realize what had happened to me, but I rushed to the place where my husband was standing – all five people who were standing near the fence there were killed. There was blood everywhere; I tried to drag him away, and was screaming, ‘Don’t die; please don’t die!’ My son threw himself over his body, and was also screaming, ‘Daddy, daddy, don’t die!’ Then the police and the ambulances came, and took us all to the hospital. In another attack that day, three Palestinian-Arab Israeli youths from the village of Tarshiha lost their lives: Shnati Shnati, 21; Amir Naeem, 18; and Muhammad Faour, 17. During the attack, another rocket hit a house in the nearby village of Meila. A woman, Maha Morani, whose 2-year-old daughter Nura was wounded in the attack, told Human Rights Watch: It was around 3.30 pm yesterday. It was the first time the rocket fell on our village. We live on the third floor in a three-floor apartment building. We left kids at home and went out just for a few minutes to buy some food. My daughter was sleeping in her room in a cradle, and our son was in the living room. Suddenly, the siren went off, and my husband – I don’t know how he felt it – tore at full speed to the house, and just flew up the stairs to the room where Nura was sleeping. He grabbed her and rushed down, and just a minute after they left the house, the rocket hit straight into the room where Nura had been sleeping. She was injured in the eye by pieces of concrete that flew all around. Thank God, our son was in another room, so he was not injured physically, but he was in shock. Since the attack he has not talked at all, not a single word. Hits on Hospitals Several medical and educational institutes have sustained damage from Katyusha attacks. Human Rights Watch researchers visited hospitals in Nahariya and Safed after they were hit. At Nahariya Hospital, rockets had been landing near the hospital since July 12, the hospital spokesperson said. On July 28, a rocket landed directly on the fourth floor, where the ophthalmology department is located, leaving a gaping hole in the wall and destroying eight rooms with beds and medical equipment. According to the spokesperson, the department usually held 20 to 30 patients, but officials had moved patients from the top floors to basement rooms since the start of the conflict. “Otherwise it’s hard to believe anyone would have survived the attack,” the spokesperson said. He estimated the damage to the hospital at about $200,000. “There are no military bases around here; nothing military at all,” he said. “I believe they know perfectly well they are firing at a hospital.” On July 17, around 11 p.m., a rocket landed just outside the Safed Hospital. According to the hospital’s head of security, the impact of the blast shattered windows in more than 50 rooms on the hospital’s north side and destroyed the external water and gas pipes. A patient in the hospital at the time, Roni Peri, 37, told Human Rights Watch what happened when the rocket hit: Several of us had just gone out to the balcony on our floor. We heard a siren and tried to get back in, but it came too fast. The rocket hit the wall below, and I saw a huge yellow flash and glass flying. I could see, hear and feel the explosion. I was thrown by the explosion to the other side of the balcony and both my legs and arms were cut from the glass. There was a boy in a wheelchair who was in the hospital because he was injured in a previous rocket strike. We had taken him outside with us to try and cheer him up, and he was badly hurt in the head by glass. He hasn’t spoken since it happened. In the absence of troops or military assets inside, hospitals must never be attacked, Human Rights Watch said. Deliberately attacking them is a war crime. Hits on Homes Rockets have hit homes in many northern towns, although in most cases witnesses or security officials told Human Rights Watch that the inhabitants were not home at the time. In Nahariya, Moshe Zamir, 56, witnessed a rocket strike on his neighbor’s house on July 18. “Around 6 p.m., I went outside to sit on my front porch,” he said. “All of a sudden, I heard a huge boom, and I quickly crouched down on the ground. I saw debris flying all over the place and I ran back inside my house.” The missile hit the house of the Akuka family, Zamir’s neighbors, who had already left town, he said. Malka Karasanti, 70, was injured when a rocket destroyed the top two floors of her three-story apartment building in Haifa on July 17. She told Human Rights Watch: I was taking a nap in my apartment on the second floor when, around 2:30 p.m., I heard a siren go off. I went to the bathroom, which I use as my safe room since there is no shelter in the building. There was a loud boom, and then everything began to collapse around me. … I was injured in my right shoulder bone, I broke a left rib, and I have a tear in my eardrum so I don’t hear well now. Hits on Businesses Hezbollah rockets have hit a number of workplaces directly and have taken a heavy economic toll on agriculture, tourism, industry and small businesses in northern Israel. Many businesses in the north have either dramatically scaled back their work or have closed entirely due to ongoing attacks. The most serious attack took place on July 16, when a rocket slammed into a train depot in Haifa, killing eight workers and wounding 12. Human Rights Watch interviewed four railway workers at Haifa’s Rambam Hospital who were wounded by ball bearings from the lethal blast. “There were three loud booms, and I started running out of the depot,” said Alek Vensbaum, 61, a worker at the Israel Train Authority. “One of the guys, Nissim, who was later killed, yelled at everyone to run to the shelter. The fourth boom got me when I was nearly at the door, and I was hit by shrapnel. ... I was hit by ball bearing-like pieces of metal in my neck, hand, stomach and foot.” Sami Raz, 39, a railway electrician, said a ball bearing pierced his lung and lodged near his heart. “I had terrible difficulty breathing after I was hit,” he said. On July 23, a Hezbollah rocket hit a carpentry shop in Kiryat Ata owned by David Siboni, killing one worker named Habib Awad. Siboni, 60, told Human Rights Watch: I've had this business for 30 years. Despite the situation, I decided to keep my shop open, just for fewer hours and with fewer workers. This morning I was in my office upstairs when I heard the siren go off. There were eight other workers in the shop and I yelled at them to run to the safe room. I didn't think I had time to get downstairs, so I stayed up in my office and suddenly the rocket hit us directly. Habib had apparently just peeked out the door of the safe room to make sure everyone was in, and the blast got him. I think all the injuries were internal, you couldn't see any damage from the outside. On July 19, a rocket hit a car garage in Nazareth owned for the past 35 years by Ased Abu Naja Ased. The direct hit destroyed the garage, the office with computers, diagnostic machines, several cars being serviced in the shop and three new cars for sale that had arrived that day. Abu Naja said that the attack thankfully took place on Wednesday, the one day of the week when the garage closed early. Otherwise, at least 20 workers would have been in the garage. Shelters Human Rights Watch researchers visited six bomb shelters in Haifa and Nahariya where many local residents have spent days and nights since the conflict began. Most of the shelters were stifling hot and overcrowded with insufficient facilities for the number of people they are meant to serve. Sitting in a shelter in Nahariya, Rosa Guttmann, 52, told Human Rights Watch how difficult it was for older residents. “The access for the elderly is hard with all the stairs,” she said. “It is very difficult for them to quickly climb down into the shelter and later to get back out. The shelters are cramped and there isn’t enough room for everyone.” Another woman in the same shelter told Human Rights Watch: We are in the shelter all the time, since the day things started. We only leave when the emergency services announce on the loudspeaker that we can go out. Sometimes we stay at the shelter during the day and go home to sleep at night. Yesterday we went home at around midnight to sleep but around 2 a.m. rockets started falling and at 5 a.m. we’d had enough, and returned to the shelter. We need more mattresses for everyone to sleep here. It is especially hard for the children. They are bored and they are scared. On July 18, a Hezbollah rocket killed Andrei Zlanski, 37, just outside a bomb shelter in Nahariya. Human Rights Watch researchers arrived on the scene just after the attack and spoke with Eliav Sian, 34, a witness to the attack: The guy put his wife and child into the bomb shelter and then went out, I’m not sure why. There was no siren at the time, just a general warning to enter and stay in the shelters. I was standing near the entrance of the shelter and the guy was just a few meters away. All of a sudden I heard a whistling sound, and quickly ran back inside. The guy didn’t make it and was killed instantly by the missile. Zlanski, Human Rights Watch later learned, had stepped out of the shelter to get a blanket for his daughter. “There used to be about 70 people in the shelter but after he was killed many people left town, especially those with kids,” said Yoav Zalgan, 35, a single man who remained in the shelter. “And now 30 people are usually here.” http://hrw.org

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 355 (view)

Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing? * Posted: 8/22/2006 4:33:48 PM
It would be hard to have to live that way fitsoul. I couldn't imagine what it would be like to have to look over your shoulder when you walked down the street of your own hometown. I myself have been very lucky to have never had to have lived that way a great many in this forum topic are. I do believe that hezbollah are terrorists and even after entering into lebanons political areana thats not likely to change. They I think haven't proved their worst yet. I think we will see worse things yet to come from them. What is Hezbollah? Hezbollah is a Lebanese umbrella organization of radical Islamic Shiite groups and organizations. It opposes the West, seeks to create a Muslim fundamentalist state modeled on Iran, and is a bitter foe of Israel. Hezbollah, whose name means “party of God,” is a terrorist group believed responsible for nearly 200 attacks since 1982 that have killed more than 800 people, according to the Terrorism Knowledge Base. Experts say Hezbollah is also a significant force in Lebanon’s politics and a major provider of social services, operating schools, hospitals, and agricultural services, for thousands of Lebanese Shiites. It also operates the al-Manar satellite television channel and broadcast station. What are Hezbollah's origins? Hezbollah was founded in 1982 in response to the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, and subsumed members of the 1980s coalition of groups known as Islamic Jihad. It has close links to Iran and Syria. Who are Hezbollah's leaders? Sheikh Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah is considered the group’s spiritual leader. Imad Fayez Mugniyah is considered the key planner of Hezbollah’s worldwide terrorist operations. During the Lebanese civil war in the 1970s, experts say Mugniyah trained with al-Fatah. When the Palestine Liberation Organization and al-Fatah were expelled from Lebanon by Israeli forces in 1982, Mugniyah joined the newly formed Hezbollah and quickly rose to a senior position in the organization. Hassan Nasrallah is Hezbollah’s senior political leader. Nasrallah was originally a military commander, but his military and religious credentials—he studied in centers of Shiite theology in Iran and Iraq—quickly elevated him to leadership within the group. Experts say he took advantage of rivalries within Hezbollah and the favor of the head of Iran’s theocratic government, Ayatollah Ruhollah Musavi Khomeini, to become the group’s secretary general in 1992, a position he still holds. Where does Hezbollah operate? Its base is in Lebanon’s Shiite-dominated areas, including parts of Beirut, southern Lebanon, and the Bekaa Valley. In addition, U.S. intelligence reports say that Hezbollah cells operate in Europe, Africa, South America, and North America. Despite Israel’s 2000 withdrawal from Lebanon, Hezbollah continues to periodically shell Israeli forces in the disputed Shebaa Farms border zone. Hezbollah has also carried out attacks outside the Middle East. In his September 20, 2001, speech to Congress, President Bush pledged that the U.S.-led war on terror “will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found, stopped, and defeated.” Hezbollah’s cells outside the Middle East, its reported involvement in the January 2002 attempt to smuggle a boatload of arms to the Palestinian Authority, and its role in a pair of attacks in Argentina in the early 1990s, imply that it might meet the president’s definition, terrorism experts say. In June 2002, Singapore accused Hezbollah of recruiting Singaporeans in a failed 1990s plot to attack U.S. and Israeli ships in the Singapore Straits. Hezbollah was also among the few terrorist groups that President Bush mentioned by name in his January 2002 State of the Union address. How big is Hezbollah? Its core consists of several thousand militants and activists, the U.S. government estimates. What major attacks is Hezbollah responsible for? Hezbollah and its affiliates have planned or been linked to a lengthy series of terrorist attacks against the United States, Israel, and other Western targets. These attacks include: a series of kidnappings of Westerners in Lebanon, including several Americans, in the 1980s; the suicide truck bombings that killed more than 200 U.S. Marines at their barracks in Beirut, Lebanon, in 1983; the 1985 hijacking of TWA flight 847, which featured the famous footage of the plane’s pilot leaning out of the****it with a gun to his head; two major 1990s attacks on Jewish targets in Argentina—the 1992 bombing of the Israeli Embassy (killing twenty-nine) and the 1994 bombing of a Jewish community center (killing ninety-five). a July 2006 raid on a border post in northern Israel in which two Israeli soldiers were taken captive. The abductions sparked an Israeli military campaign against Lebanon to which Hezbollah responded by firing rockets across the Lebanese border into Israel. Does Hezbollah play an active role in the Lebanese politics? Yes. After the 2005 elections, Hezbollah won fourteen seats in the 128-member Lebanese Parliament. In addition, Hezbollah has two ministers in the government, and a third is endorsed by the group. Hezbollah did not disarm when it entered Lebanese politics, and experts say the group's new political involvement is not an indication that the group is becoming more moderate. www.cfr.org

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 322 (view)

Who thinks that what hezbollah is doing really is the right thing? * Posted: 8/21/2006 6:03:34 PM
We need to give hezbollah a chance to prove itself? I think they already have they have made proof that they want dictation of other nations and are willing to kill for the privelages. How many people would die if they were allowed to prove themselves to the extent that they would like? Hundreds and thousands. All of the good things you mentioned about health care and education comes at a high cost of life to lebanese and israeli people. Q. Why is Israel conducting military operations in Lebanon? A. Israel is conducting military operations in Lebanon in order to put an end to the threat Hezbollah poses to the Israeli population. On July 12, 2006, Hezbollah a terrorist organization based in Lebanon and represented in the Lebanese government killed 8 and kidnapped two Israeli soldiers on sovereign Israeli territory. This unprovoked act of war made it necessary for Israel to respond. Israel could no longer allow its citizens to be threatened by Hezbollah's missile fire. Israel would have been negligent in its responsibility towards its citizens had it not responded. Like Canadians, Israelis have the right to live their lives without the threat of constant violence. The purpose of this operation is to free the abducted soldiers and to remove the threat that Hezbollah has posed and continues to pose to the men, women and children of Israel. Q. Is Israel using disproportionate force? A. Israel must respond with enough force to put an end to the threat Hezbollah poses to the men, women and children of Israel. Proportionality must be measured in terms of the extent of the threat. With over 12,000 missiles targeted at Israel and a mandate to destroy the Jewish state. Hezbollah is a direct threat not only to the one million Israelis who live within the range of the rockets, but to the Jewish people as a whole. All democratic nations have the obligation to defend their citizens from attack and harm's way. Failure to face the threat head on and with the amount of force needed to destroy it would be irresponsible. Israel's use of force is directly proportionate to the threat that Hezbollah poses to Israeli civilians. Q. Why does Israel bomb civilian buildings and infrastructure in Lebanon? A. Israel does everything within its power to prevent civilian casualties. Only terrorist groups like Hezbollah aim to maximize civilian deaths. Israel is a democratic country with a moral army that makes every effort to avoid involving civilians in conflicts and causing civilian casualties. By contrast, Hezbollah deliberately tries to maximize civilian casualties by targeting major Israeli population centres and by using civilians as human shields. Israel only targets facilities in southern Lebanon which serve the supply and command capacity of Hezbollah. Israel targeted the runways of the Beirut airport and the Beirut-Damascus highway in order to stop Hezbollah from smuggling the two abducted Israelis out of Lebanon and to destroy the routes through which Hezbollah is re-supplied with weapons. Israel did not target the airport control tower or any other installation not directly used by the terrorists. Q. Is Israel not concerned about the growing number of civilian casualties? A. Israel does everything it can to minimize civilian casualties. When terrorists use civilians as human shields, it is the terrorists and not Israel who are criminally responsible for any loss of life. As a moral country, Israel does not target civilians and regrets any loss of innocent life. The Israel Defense Forces ( IDF) is a disciplined army which adheres to a strict code of conduct. In this current crisis, the IDF has gone out of its way to try and save the lives of Lebanese civilians. Prior to attacking an area, the IDF makes announcements and drops pamphlets urging civilians to vacate Hezbollah areas. Hezbollah, on the other hand, embeds itself in residential neighborhoods, fires missiles out of private homes and cynically uses civilians as human shields. When terrorists use civilians as human shields, it is the terrorists who are criminally responsible for the deaths of Lebanese civilians, not Israel. Q. Following the July 16, 2006 death of 7 Canadians, what is Israel doing to help foreign nationals get out of Lebanon? A. Israel is working with the international community to ensure that foreign nationals leave Lebanon swiftly and safely. Israel has expressed its profound sorrow to the government of Canada over the tragic death of the Lebanese Canadian family. Israel unconditionally regrets the deaths of any foreign nationals in Lebanon who are not involved in the violence. Israel has established a safe corridor and humanitarian task force to facilitate the evacuation of people not involved in the conflict. Presently, over 70 evacuee ships have left Lebanon without incident. Q. What is Israel doing in order to help address the humanitarian needs of the Lebanese population? A. Unlike Hezbollah, which seeks to inflict maximum pain and suffering on the Israeli civilian population, Israel is doing everything within its power to help Lebanese civilians. The government of Israel has created special passageways to allow Lebanese civilians to vacate Hezbollah areas under attack. It has created special corridors to allow for the free flow of food, medicine and other necessities. A new Israeli task force has been formed to coordinate the distribution of humanitarian aid. Q. Why didn't Israel show restraint and use diplomacy before attacking? A. Israel waited 6 years for Lebanon to disarm Hezbollah in accordance with UN Security Council resolutions 425 and 1559. With over 12,000 Hezbollah rockets aimed at 1/3 of Israel's population, Israel can no longer afford to wait. Israel withdrew from Lebanon in May, 2000 in accordance with UN Security Council resolutions 425 and 1559. Instead of taking steps to secure a peaceful border with Israel, the Lebanese government allowed Hezbollah to take control of the southern part of the country and to stockpile a vast a***nal of rockets and missiles supplied by Syria and Iran. Israel repeatedly called upon the international community to urge the government of Lebanon to rein in Hezbollah. Lebanon did not exercise its sovereignty and disarm Hezbollah. Unfortunately, it is the people of Lebanon who must bear the consequences of their own government's inaction. Q. How does Israel expect the government of Lebanon to take action after years of inaction and ineffectiveness? A. The Lebanese government has both the ability and the international backing to take control of its own country. The recent withdrawal of Syrian military presence in Lebanon has allowed Beirut more freedom of action in order to promote Lebanese interests. The Lebanese government is now responsible to fulfill its obligation as a sovereign state. Lebanon must take control of its own territory including the region abutting the border with Israel, and implement Security Council resolutions 425 and 1559 which call for the disarmament of Hezbollah. Q. Why does Israel say that Syria and Iran are involved in Hamas and Hezbollah terrorism? A. Syria and Iran are rogue states that arm, fund and enable Hamas and Hezbollah. Hamas leader Khahled Mashaal has been living in Syria for a number of years. From Damsacus, Mashaal commands terrorist activity against Israelis, including the bombardment of southern Israel with Qassam rockets and the recent abduction of Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit. Syria also provides support to Hezbollah including the financing and procurement of arms. Hezbollah would not be operating in southern Lebanon without Syrian sponsorship. Iran is Hezbollah's main benefactor. It provides the terror organization with funding, weapons, training, ideological support, political cover and even elite fighters. Most of the Katyusha rockets as well as the longer-range missiles that have hit Israel during this crisis came from Iran. Q. What motivates Iran and Syria to support Hamas and Hezbollah? A. It's a symbiotic relationship. While Islamist terrorists hope to take over the world and impose Muslim rule, their sponsoring states want to keep the world distracted. Hamas and Hezbollah are driven by an extreme Islamist ideology which calls for the immediate destruction of the State of Israel as part of a greater plan to wage jihad (holy war) against the 'Infidel' Western world. Syria and Iran sponsor and support these organizations so that they can use them as political arms which, on the on the one hand, further the goals of radical Islam and, on the other, deflect attention away from the fact that Syria is still involved in Lebanese internal affairs and Iran is developing nuclear weapons. Arab analysts speculate that Hezbollah and Hamas initiated their respective crises with Israel in order to, in part, delay the international show-down that will undoubtedly occur over Iran's nuclear program. Q. So if Syria and Iran are behind the terrorism, why is Israel attacking Lebanon? A. Israel is fighting Hezbollah and not Lebanon. Israel will avoid military escalation whenever and wherever diplomacy has a chance of succeeding. Israel is attacking Hezbollah's military assets within Lebanon and not Lebanon itself. Israel has struck only at military installations used by Hezbollah. Israel has no desire to escalate the military action beyond the present theatres of operation in Lebanon and Gaza. Israel believes that the involvement of Syria and Iran is, at present, best addressed through coordinated diplomatic pressure. Q. How will Israel pressure Syria and Iran? A. Israel is not alone in its fight against terrorism. There is a widening consensus in the international community that Islamist terror is a global rather than a regional threat. One has to only look at 9/11 in the United States, the slaughter of the Beslan schoolchildren in Russia, and the murder of innocents on the trains and busses in Madrid and London, as well as the carnage planned for Canadian cities, to see that Israel is embroiled in an ongoing assault by Islamist terrorists determined to defeat Western civilization and replace it with Muslim rule. Israel is working with the international community to put pressure on countries like Syria and Iran who both sponsor and encourage terror. Q. What are the diplomatic avenues available to end this crisis? A. Israel is telling its Lebanese neighbours: Return the hostages, disarm the terrorists, control the territory and then we can have peace. Though Israel understands that military operations are now necessary to defend its citizens by neutralizing the threat posed by Hezbollah's terrorist infrastructure, the eventual solution to the conflict must be diplomatic. With regard to Lebanon, the components of this solution would be: The return of the hostages Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev A complete and total cease-fire Deployment of the Lebanese army into southern Lebanon Expulsion of Hezbollah from that area Implementation of UN Resolution 1559, specifically the disarming of Hezbollah. With regard to Palestinian front, the components of a solution would include: The return of kidnapped Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit Cessation of terrorist activity against Israeli civilians An end to the launching of Qassam missiles onto Israeli towns and settlements in the south An end to the incitement and culture of hate against Israelis and Jews The recognition of Israel's right to exist as a Jewish democratic state Respect for Israel's sovereign boundaries. Q. By adopting an overtly pro-Israel and pro-U.S. position on the current crises, hasn't Prime Minister Stephen Harper compromised Canada's traditional role as a neutral, honest broker in the Middle East? A. Establishing a clear, firm position against terrorism, and supporting democratic forces, will increase rather than diminish respect for Canada among all parties in the Middle East who share the dream of a peaceful future. Stephen Harper's condemnation of Hezbollah and Hamas aggression against Israel is grounded in a principled opposition to international terrorism, rather than disproportionate support for Israel and the United States. 'Neutrality' and 'nuance' are not options for Canada (and other Western democracies) in the post 9-11 struggle against global Islamist radicalism sponsored and promoted directly by Iran and Syria, and through proxies like Hezbollah and Hamas. Prime Minister Harper's principled stand against terrorism was reflected in the recent G-8 statement, which stated that besides the return of the kidnapped soldiers, Hezbollah must stop its Katyusha missile fire on Israel from Lebanon and Hamas must put an end to the Qassam missiles from Gaza. The overwhelming majority of Canadians - 64% - believe Israel's military response to Hezbollah's unprovoked aggression has been either "completely justified" or "somewhat justified," according to an Ipsos Reid-CanWest Global survey published on Monday, July 24, 2006. 63% of Canadians feel that the onus for compromise for achieving a ceasefire rests with "those who kidnapped the Israeli soldiers" rather than the government of Israel.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 290 (view)

Peace in Mideast? Posted: 8/20/2006 7:54:53 PM
Well said mencer very well said.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 289 (view)

Peace in Mideast? Posted: 8/20/2006 7:53:41 PM
Subotai thats kind of what I mean I am not peeved at the lebanese gov. I just am peeved that hezbollahs is accepted as a non-terrorist oranization when they have infact sent out suicide bombers and began recent conflicts with isreal but its the people of israel and lebanon who pay the price with life. I just find it unjustified that alot of people say they fight to gain back illegally occupied lands from israel and they fight for freedom when its most untrue. I don't see its likely that iran will let up any for its part in this though because they support hezbollah and irans president said he would like to wipe israel off the map. Sad really. I think hezbollah causes more conflict than it is worth.

cleopatracutie

Joined: 9/15/2005

Msg: 244 (view)

Tired of biased spin. Posted: 8/20/2006 8:24:42 AM
Israel could make short work of hezbollah thats definate with the backing of the us and the uk, even without them but they do tend to bend to what the un asks for, for the most part anyway. I just think that it sucks that people wish hezbollah the best. It makes me ill aswell that people are dying on both sides and its only important to alot of people that the lebanese are dying and not the israelis. If it wasn't for hezbollah the worst parts of the mess wouldn't need cleaning up. But thats what happen when so many embrace they ways of terrorists and feel it is ok for the to continue with their war making ways. Its crazy.

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