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 Author Thread: Is It Time to Secede Yet?
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 93 (view)
 
Is It Time to Secede Yet?
Posted: 11/12/2009 1:31:31 PM


Somebody sounds scared.


Nope, I believe it is simply best to pick an arena for struggle, in a realm one has a chance to continue. I do not see a solution in violence that is beneficial to the people of this nation. I believe positive change comes not from violence but, people working together to make it so.

 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 114 (view)
 
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 11/12/2009 11:32:07 AM
A good question then is:

why is it that there are a huge numbers of people one can meet on the street or on the net whom support single payer but, it has never been put up for even a discussion on the floor of those whom are said to represent us?

I am callin Shenanigans!


 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 112 (view)
 
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 11/12/2009 11:23:02 AM


The Repubs. just sat on their fat asses collecting a pay check and doing nothing for all those years. (which by the way, if I ever do go into politics, is why I'm going Republican. Cause you fools will actually pay me to do nothing.)


I care not R or D, I do not support this bill at all.

I do not see things by party but by deed. This bill is a windfall to insurance companies and offers little to nothing to the people. That is my issue with it period.

I support universal coverage. Health care for all citizens of the USA.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 17 (view)
 
Six Veterans Died Every Day In 2008 Because They Were Uninsured
Posted: 11/12/2009 11:14:04 AM


The income requirements are met by most I would guess.


We can tell from the findings of this study that at least 2,266 last year did not, or for some other reason, were not covered.

I think every veteran should be covered for life soon as they get out. They should not even have to enroll for it. There is really no need for that. They already have every shred of information and identifying number or picture you can think of, just a simple computer program can auto enroll them. DONE! problem solved.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 15 (view)
 
Six Veterans Died Every Day In 2008 Because They Were Uninsured
Posted: 11/12/2009 10:49:12 AM
Sorry Dmotz I must respectfully prove you wrong here my friend.

From the VAs own information.




Eligibility Assessment Procedures

Public Law 99-272, The Veterans Health Care Amendment of 1986, and Public Law 101-508, The Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990, established eligibility assessment procedures, based on income levels, for determining whether or not certain veterans who have no other special eligibility, are eligible for cost-fee medical care. These income levels will be adjusted on January 1 of each year by the percentage that VA pension benefits are increased.

Veterans who are not subject to the eligibility income assessment (Means Test) are as follows:

Service-connected (compensable) veterans

Former prisoners of war

Veterans awarded the Purple Heart

Veterans discharged for a disability incurred or aggravated in line of duty.

Veterans who were exposed to herbicides while serving in Vietnam, to ionizing radiation during atmospheric testing and in the occupation of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, or exposed to an environmental hazard while serving in the Gulf War and need treatment for a condition that might be related to such exposures.

Veterans receiving a VA pension.

Veterans of the Mexican border period or World War I.

Veterans eligible for Medicaid.



The eligibility income assessment, which follows, applies to all other veterans without special eligibility regardless of age:

Your hospital care, medical services and nursing home care (when provided) are cost-free if:

You are not subject to the eligibility income assessment (as listed above):
or,

You are a nonservice-connected veteran or 0% non compensable service-connected veteran seeking care for a non service-connected disability and your combined household income is $22,887 or less and your income plus net worth is less than $50,000, if single with no dependents: or your combined household income is $27,468 or less and your income plus net worth is less than $50,000 if married, or single with one dependent (add $1,532) to the income level for each additional dependent).

Your hospital care, medical service and nursing home care (when provided) will require your agreement to pay VA a deductible (also referred to as co-payment) amount for that care equal to what you would have to pay under Medicare, as adjusted annually, if,

Your combined household income is $22,888 or above if single with no dependents or $27,469 or above if married or single with one dependent, plus $1,532 for each additional dependent.

If you are required to pay a deductible for your medical care, you will be charged a copayment, for which you will be personally responsible, as follows:

A co-payment equal to the Medicare deductible, currently $776 for the first 90 days of hospital care during any 365-day period. (In addition to this co-payment, you will be charged a fee of $10 per day for inpatient hospital care.)

For each additional 90 days of hospital care, you will pay half the Medicare deductible plus the additional charge of $10 per day.

For each 90 days of nursing home care, you will pay the full Medicare deductible. (In addition to this co-payment, you will be charged a fee of $5 per day for nursing home care.)

A co-payment of $50.80 will be charged for each outpatient visit.

NOTE: The income assessment level and co-payments rates are adjusted annually.


So as you see not ALL are eligible and or covered and some are pseudo-covered but forced to pay deductibles, and or co-pays. Others still are not covered at all.

So 2,266 at least we know for sure, were not eligible because they are no longer with us due to it. *Removes his hat in respect.*
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 109 (view)
 
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 11/12/2009 10:19:41 AM
I do not support the health care bill that is in the house. It does not get rid of the problem. The insurance companies. It actually hands them billions more dollars and still lets people fall through the cracks.

I support universal coverage. Since it is not in the bill I do not support it.

In fact I think a place where many on the so called "left" and "right" do agree is that we do not like this bill. We might not like it for different reasons but, it is a point of agreement for many of us. Maybe we should learn to work together when we do agree.. Just food for thought.

I do not like this bill at all.

I believe we need to start from scratch and figure out how everyone in this nation will have the best health. It is the very foundation, to everything else a nation may wish to achieve. Without it we have no national security. How care we be secure as a people when some among us walk with untreated even potentially contagious illness, simply because they cannot afford the cost we as a society create, for them to be cared for.

This does not take some huge changes, it takes but, a change of our frame of mind.

What do we value more as a people?

For a very small group of people to get even more wealthy than they once were?
Or
Public health

For me the answer is simple.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 86 (view)
 
Is it Time to Bring the Troops Home?
Posted: 11/12/2009 10:06:38 AM


How you claim that terror is not defeated by terror, which militray conflict/s are you aware of where this was the case?.


http://acdalliance.org/node/413

That is not Gandhi speaking either that is a non-profit corporation that studies these sorts of things.

If we go back and study how the vast majority of other terrorist groups were stopped most were brought to the negotiating table, or dealt with by police forces. Using war to stop terror has a VERY poor track record. War is terror. It causes innocent people to suffer whom might start thinking what those terrorists guys are saying makes sense. Thus more passionate recruits. Invading them merely sets up the climate for insurgency, and quagmire. That's great news for the war profiteers but, bad news for the rest of the world.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 106 (view)
 
Support broad in U.S. for public healthcare option
Posted: 11/12/2009 9:21:51 AM
I stand for universal health care. It is barbaric that we allow for a very few to profit off of the deaths and suffering of tens of thousands per year by not allowing them adequate health care while, they take money from healthy people to get rich.

Insurance companies, are a scam and a sick one that needs to be stopped.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 90 (view)
 
Is It Time to Secede Yet?
Posted: 11/12/2009 9:13:40 AM
pirateheaven said



I think you have it backwards. If CA seceded, we'd take over Mexico. You know those bitter Christian clingers with a Bible in one hand and a six shooter in the other, are fierce.


This is exactly what the people in Waco thought. You too might share a similar fate if you go forward with your six shooters and secede. Have you ever even been to Mexico and seen their army? They would run you guys over with their tanks laughing at you while they shoot you like a bunch of turkeys, they could beat your christian six shooting and still have time for a good mezcal afterward. This is not the days of the Alamo nor the civil war. Sorry to tell you that you were born a century or two too late to be a cowboy terrorist.

By all means though as comedic as this thread is. Dont believe me or take my advice/warning.... If you believe so firmly in this why tell anyone about it? Give it your best shot, I can bet you wont last a week, we'll miss your comedy for it is worth a chuckle or two, but I know the outcome of this as should you if you had any shred of sense in your head.

The military would laugh at your six shooters as they take them off your dead bodies which would likely have, tank tracks on your dumb faces.

I didnt think I would have to ever be telling this to an adult. An 8 year old perhaps but, an adult should have more sense than to want to play cowboys with the US and Mexican military. If you think the USA will allow mexico to be invaded by secessionist you are absolutely in for a rude awakening! They are not going to be playing when they shoot and I bet you all the tea in china that you wont get a chance to scream in argument, "I shot you first!" Leave the silly boyhood crap there or go get a paintball gun and play cowboy terrorist there. You might get some of that stupid out of your system and return to some sense of equilibrium. Then again maybe not.

*Face palms*
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 11 (view)
 
Six Veterans Died Every Day In 2008 Because They Were Uninsured
Posted: 11/12/2009 8:52:01 AM
I could care less what a persons bias is. A peer reviewed study that finds more vets died from lack of insurance than from the war shows this country dont give a crap about it's vets unless it is time to send them off to war. When vets come back, they account for FAR too many of the people living on the streets! Suffering FAR too often from hunger! Add this to boot that they are dying from lack of health care do to the fact that the system is set up to let some of them fall through the cracks, and or they are finding it hard to make ends meet, it is sickening.

I lived on the streets for a number of years. I saw cops beat homeless vets simply because they decided to try to wash away their pain from war with too much drink and passed out in public. These are the same cops with the support the troops stickers on their cars. They support them by beating them when they come home broken from the shit these older guys were FORCED to be part of.



Dr. Woolander has her own National Health Program that she is pimping.


It is not HER health program at all she is asking for A NATIONAL HEALTH PROGRAM. She is a medical doctor in support of universal health care. HUGE difference than trying to say she is pimping a health care program, that would be the insurance companies that do that. They are the pimps and gangsters here.

She sounds to me like she wants everyone to have the opportunity to see a doctor when they are sick and in need. It is sad that we are the only developed country in the western world that even thinks about being barbaric enough to allow a very few people to get rich off of making others die and suffer without adequate health care, so they can take healthy peoples money.

It hits home even harder that last year 2,266 of those people that died last year so the insurance industry can get richer, were our veterans. Not only did they get the shaft when they got shipped off for wars, they get screwed when they get home.

God bless you guys and gals, some of us actually do love you. Some of us know if you really support the troops you do not send them to hell and back for no reason, like they are little toy soldiers. If you support the troops you make sure they are cared for when they get back. You make sure they are not sent off to pointless adventures of war profiteering.

Most people whom put the support the troops sticker on their car really are simply saying, support the pointless endless wars.


I could care less what made the lady Dr decide to do the study, the findings are clear, obvious and another glaring red mark against the insurance companies and this barbaric system of putting profits to a very small group of people above lives and the public health of our nation. It is disgusting we should be ashamed of how our nation is handling this issue.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 5 (view)
 
Six Veterans Died Every Day In 2008 Because They Were Uninsured
Posted: 11/11/2009 11:38:36 PM


What are you talking about? Veterans automatically qualify for free or low cost health benefits. All they have to do is enroll. Are you asking us to do their paperwork for them?


Think you may wish to look at this.

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/11/11/study_over_2_200_us_veterans



On Veterans Day, a new study estimates four times as many US Army veterans died last year because they lacked health insurance than the total number of US soldiers who were killed in Iraq and Afghanistan in the same period. A research team at Harvard Medical School says 2,266 veterans under the age of sixty-five died in 2008 because they were uninsured. We speak to the report’s co-author, Dr. Steffie Woolhandler, professor of medicine at Harvard University and co-founder of Physicians for a National Health Program.


That is the intro can watch or read the transcript.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 8 (view)
 
Why are the majority of Americans so apathetic in politics? We know you can talk the talk...?
Posted: 11/11/2009 10:23:31 AM


hey are tired of having to choose between socialism and socialism light. It's like a game of two card monte, whichever card you pick, you lose.

We need a choice between conservatives and originalists who support a constitutional republic, not bailout factory.


All of the bailouts we have ever had in this country were started and orchestrated by conservatives. From SNL scandal to the recent one we just witnessed.

No socialist worth their salt would ever wish to bail out a multinational corporation that takes advantage of it's workers. Socialists would turn the company over to the workers and do away with the status quo of the top raping the bottom.

I believe you might appreciate this article.

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/11/10/hoodwinked_former_economic_hit_man_john

If your computer like it watch it as a video just press play there. The guy tells it like it is.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 83 (view)
 
Is it Time to Bring the Troops Home?
Posted: 11/11/2009 9:54:38 AM
Is it Time to Bring the Troops Home? AMEN! Long overdue, they should have never been sent in the first place. You do not beat terror with terror. War is terror..

We should have focused our resources on making sure that it would be much more difficult to attack us and make it as expensive as possible to attack us by staying here. Let them spend all their resources and time trying to figure out how to get at us. Instead we took to foolish road and made it as cheap as it gets to commit acts of terror on our citizens by sending them over there as troops. So now it is cheap to attack us, and easy to get more recruits because now the USA is acting just like they want. Every time a civilian gets caught in the crossfire more recruits for the terrorists.

Osama bin laden likely is no longer alive. He was said to be ill with terminal cancer before the war even started and was said, to be on dialysis for renal failure.

So think about it for a second barely alive all those years ago hiding in caves walking around on IVs and dialysis machine and cant be found for all these years. They probably recorded plenty of tapes or made people learn how to look like him and sound like him, to make new ones. Makes for the perfect bogey man that can never be found.

This is all a horse and pony show.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 6 (view)
 
Why are the majority of Americans so apathetic in politics? We know you can talk the talk...?
Posted: 11/11/2009 9:32:58 AM
I think many people have caught on to the game that we became the united states of corporations. They realize that their vote means little in the end. We are given a couple of choices which to many looks like Tweedledee and Tweedledumber. Then asked to get passionate about them enough to get home from a long day of work, some how in all of our precious free time we are to get educated on the issues and choose one of the idiots that believes at least somewhat like we do.

Me personally I vote and get involved to a certain extent but, I do understand why some others choose not to. Not a very hopeful course the USA decided to take.

It all went down hill when corporations no longer had to get charters renewed to continue to exist. They used to have to prove they served the public interest and greater good. Corporations were not viewed as people and used to thus be regulated to a degree by this process. Now they are considered to have the same rights as people and then get perks on top of that. So they are favored over actual people and corporations directly and indirectly cause most of the problems we face in the world today. Mostly because they are permitted to run wild with nothing to regulate them at all.

Apathy stems from a feeling that it does not matter what you think or do, they are going to do what they want anyways.

I agree it does not help the cause of the people to fall into it but, the feeling is there for legit reasons.

Our government works for the corporations and not the people. The question is how to change this fact without breaking into other issues that often arise every time this issue cycles back around.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 77 (view)
 
Is It Time to Secede Yet?
Posted: 11/11/2009 8:30:21 AM


That is very authoritative view that has no Constitutional basis.

States entered into the Union freely and they should be able to vote themselves out.

50% of Americans are now being sustained by the other 50%.


Yep the blue states are subsidizing and supporting the red states. In case you didnt know it, the blue states are the richest states in the union. The red are the poorest.

There was an email that floated around before the election thought you would enjoy it. Even though I am 100% opposed to anyone seceding because I know it would start another civil war instantly, which in todays terms would = instant drop to third world nation status and likely invasion from another force, and nuclear war.

Anyways just for the humor factor of it I will share this. No idea who wrote it, the author remained anonymous but, it is funny. This whole thread borders on unintentional comedy.



Dear Red States:

If you manage to steal this election too we've decided we're leaving. We intend to form our own country, and we're taking the other Blue States with us. In case you aren't aware, that includes California , Hawaii , Oregon , Washington , Minnesota , Wisconsin , Michigan , Illinois and all the Northeast. We believe this split will be beneficial to the nation, and especially to the people of the new country of New California.

To sum up briefly:

You get Texas , Oklahoma and all the slave states.
We get stem cell research and the best beaches.

We get the Statue of Liberty.
You get Dollywood.

We get Intel and Microsoft.
You get WorldCom.

We get Harvard.
You get Ole' Miss.

We get 85% of America 's venture capital and entrepreneurs.
You get Alabama .

We get two-thirds of the tax revenue, you get to make the red states pay their fair share.

Since our aggregate divorce rate is 22% lower than the Christian Coalition's, we get a bunch of happy families.
You get a bunch of single moms.

Please be aware that Nuevo California will be pro-choice and anti-war, and we're going to want all our citizens back from Iraq at once.


With the Blue States in hand, we will have firm control of 80% of the country's fresh water, more than 90% of the pineapple and lettuce, 92% of the nation's fresh fruit, 95% of America's quality wines, 90% of all cheese, 90% of the high tech industry, 95% of the corn and soybeans (thanks Iowa!), most of the U.S. low-sulfur coal, all living redwoods, sequoias and condors, all the Ivy and Seven Sister schools plus Stanford, Cal Tech and MIT.

With the Red States, on the other hand, you will have to cope with 88% of all obese Americans (and their projected health care costs), 92% of all U.S. mosquitoes, nearly 100% of the tornadoes, 90% of the hurricanes, 99% of all Southern Baptists, virtually 100% of all televangelists, Rush Limbaugh, Bob Jones University...

We get Hollywood and Yosemite , thank you.

Additionally, 38% of those in the Red states believe Jonah was actually swallowed by a whale, 62% believe life is sacred unless we're discussing the war, the death penalty or gun laws, 44% say that evolution is only a theory, 53% believe that Saddam was involved in 9/11 and 61% of you crazy **stards believe you are people with higher morals then we lefties.

Finally, we're taking the good pot, too.

You can have that dirt weed they grow in Mexico

Peace out,
Blue States



 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 324 (view)
 
Are vegans and PETA more moral and ethical than society?
Posted: 10/27/2009 10:28:51 PM


Must be a remake out or something cause back in the 70's when I saw the original "Soylent Green" it was "each other".


You got the joke.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 32 (view)
 
Conservative Vs Liberals
Posted: 10/27/2009 4:45:39 PM
Since we are throwing out old sayings funny how this one contrasts with yours.




"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid,but most stupid people are conservatives."
John Stuart Mill
(1806 - 1873)


 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 60 (view)
 
Van Jones resigns...
Posted: 10/27/2009 8:53:27 AM
Again can someone show me where it is illegal to be a communist in the USA? Even if it was true it should be of no more concern than someone being a republican. This is a free country last I checked. You are supposed to able to be part of whatever political party you want.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 21 (view)
 
Conservative Vs Liberals
Posted: 10/26/2009 2:21:14 PM


What part did deregulation play in the present current economic condition of our country?


That would be: What caused the worst economic crash since the great depression?
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 3 (view)
 
Rep. Alan Grayson - Republicans are Enemies of America
Posted: 10/26/2009 11:16:27 AM


What do you think of his statement?


Sounds like republicans are getting a taste of their own medicine. I can't tell you for how long I have heard people say horrible things about people from the so called "left wing."

They claim they are unpatriotic, traitors etc.

Now that you know how it feels will you to continue the foolishness? I understand where people are coming from when they do it but, I do not agree with it.

It is a lot more complex than that. People by and large regardless of their political leanings love their country and want what they believe will lead to a better nation. I think we need to get away from this kind of thing on both sides of calling each other traitors, or enemies of the state etc.

All forms of political thought have their good points and their flaws. We can learn good things from them all if we are willing to discuss things with each other and act like adults instead of spoiled children.


Now as far as propaganda machines yes, they may have an agenda that goes against the intent and ideals of our nation but, they also have the right to free speech and I would support them to express that right most especially when I disagree with them.

As much as I cant stand faux news I would defend their right to air their junk because I believe in free speech. Same goes for the most extremist of right wingers, I detest what they have to say but, I would defend their right to do so every time!



 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 48 (view)
 
Van Jones resigns...
Posted: 10/26/2009 9:17:23 AM


Praising a man who killed 70 million people is disgusting.


We have a holiday called Columbus day here where we do exactly that. Though I bet more died because of Columbus than died because of Mao.

If you didnt know many of the communist a group of people from the USA tend to spew hate at, looked up to and modeled themselves after Thomas Jefferson.

That brings us to another group of guys lots of people died because of their thoughts and writings/ ideas / orders.. Our founding fathers... Yet they are praised as heroes.

OT:
I think Van Jones resigning had more to do with the passion he has for what he does as opposed to someone labeling him a communist. I have often been called a communist by people and my response is always the same. I have certainly been erroneously called worse.

Then again maybe I am not as frightened by communists as some people whom still smack of McCarthyism.

I could care less about political affiliations. This is the USA correct?? I believe people are supposed to have the right to what ever political party or ideals they choose. I see absolutely no problem if it was 100% true.

This man cared more about his mission to bring green technology and possitive change to the country than he did about some position. He did not wish to be a distraction to the cause and that is rare these days in Washington.

Funny how, when someone is selfless enough to do something like resign instead of being a distraction to the positive changes they wish to see, some among us whom often claim to not like the people whom spend a lifetime in politics, berate a guy whom cared more for his country than a position.

All of this is merely a distraction. Typical text book Rovian tactics. Kick up a dust storm of personal attacks BS in attempts to appeal to the lynch mob mentality, and pray no one sees you in the background trying fiercely to maintain the status quo so your buddies can continue to get rich off of a real messed up situation that need not be.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 11 (view)
 
Conservative Vs Liberals
Posted: 10/25/2009 10:16:47 PM


I've known liberals of all religious persuasion and conservatives of all religious persuasions. Religion and race seem to have nothing to do with it. It's utterly unpredictable. My best friend is the most die hard conservative atheist Jew you could ever hope to meet. Another friend is a borderline communist from a staunch Mormon family. Try to make sense of that. I don't even try. I'm just friends with everybody. :D


Don't think I have ever seen anyone post something in these forums I could agree with more than that.

I think the strange need some feel to categorize and over analyze things to the most minute, obsessive, compulsive, anal, detail, and try to use this as a generalization to lump a bunch of individuals into some kind of rule is beyond foolish.

People are quite a bit more like snowflakes. I also have friends of all stripes, and political persuasions. One thing I have noticed from observation is people seldom fit completely into these silly categories on every issue. In fact so often do they spill out of the category intended to confine them into some silly system of thought that the labels become useless.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 269 (view)
 
Kirk Cameron compares Charles Darwin to Hitler!
Posted: 10/24/2009 8:37:27 AM
I will play along with your ridiculous request.

Wolfs became all of the weird types of Dogs from the biggest to the littlest, during the time of mans existence and = proof of the word you don't wish me to say.

I could go on but, I think the exercise is foolish especially since I know that you have already said you know evolution exists.

As far as the rest of your long winded post it seems to me you are holding on to a pretty heavy complex and do not know me very well but, assume much.

I know full well the USA is not the be all end all of intelligence. Care to point out where I have ever insinuated that? I am not a nationalist if you havent figured it out. I am a child of the world. I personally do not see borders when I look at the world and I have traveled quite a bit and appreciate ALL of the wonder out there. Just to clarify for you to be able to drop any possible insecurity that might have made you write that.


Further I do not believe learning is a result of teaching. So off mark again. I know evolution to be fact because I have watched it in work in my garden over and over again. This is not something we have to have someone tell us about we can watch it happen in our lifetime. Go to the store and buy a poison and dose some roaches with it and watch them a few generations later get dosed with said poison and walk away and proliferate some more. Evolution.

Plant a bunch of plants of the same type and select only the seeds of the plant with the characteristics you like eventually the plant starts to come out completely different from the way it started = another type of evolution. Nature does the same thing but, instead uses natural selection. Pretty basic stuff no need for fancy jargon.

Have at it prove god the same way. No use of scripture or blind faith just to be equal.

 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 260 (view)
 
Kirk Cameron compares Charles Darwin to Hitler!
Posted: 10/23/2009 10:33:31 AM
I think the underlying thing people are missing with this banana thing is that Comfort and cameron actually just proved evolution in their ignorant rant about the banana. The banana started as one thing and over time evolved with the help of humans to evolve into something altogether different. If evolution did not exist everything would forever stay the same. Nothing would evolve. Such as this conversation, or human civilization, or computers, or human beings. The earth would have simple life forms and nothing else.

If the judeo christian religious views are supposed to be taken as scientific fact the earth is only 6,000 years old. If you believe the earth is only 6,000 years old and that everything we have now was planted their by some god by all means prove your case go to the fossil record, the geological records, etc etc and show us fools the proof. If you go to those records you will find proof to the contrary.

The earth is billions of years old. 99% of all the creatures that lived here are extinct. Things so wild that a sci-fi flick could not even think up some of those things. If there is a god he/she/it is a slippery trixter, madman, scientist whom, loves chaotic order and experimentation, that much is certain. Science has long ago proven the earth is FAR older than 6,000 years. My point in all of this is perhaps those stories were never meant to be science and had a purpose similar to fables. There is a moral and we can learn something from it but, to take it as scientific fact, is like taking science as religious doctrine. It don't add up unless you proclaim science as a religion, which I am sure that was never an intention. Though to each their own.

 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 258 (view)
 
Kirk Cameron compares Charles Darwin to Hitler!
Posted: 10/23/2009 5:54:32 AM


Well i just want to say that evolution also known as darwins theory of evolution is in fact just a theory and there is nothing conclusive to prove otherwise I just happened to hear some time ago on the news (radio) and also i read in the paper local lethbridge paper that the existing "missing link" which existed in california and was named lucy was recanted as she was merely an ape nothing more! And you need to have a missing link to prove evolution and as of today none exists so therefore it remains a theory!


Umm you are confusing two things. Evolution itself is quite provable and has been proven time and again. The only people I have ever heard of not accepting evolution are religious extremists/creationists. What is a theory is what people believe humans evolved from due to the evidence we currently have. Don't confuse the two. I see a lot of people try to confuse people with the whole missing link thing to try to say that evolution is unprovable. Evolution has been proven. What humans evolved from, is the part that is not definitive yet.

http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/ardipithecus/

Have a look at that if you want more current information on where they stand in regards to theories on human evolution..
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 254 (view)
 
Kirk Cameron compares Charles Darwin to Hitler!
Posted: 10/22/2009 8:09:31 PM
I think to sum it all up in my personal view of it.

The issue is when religious people wish to force their myths as science and when science people wish to force their science as religion.

No need to try to replace religion with science. Just teach the science and leave people to believe in what they will religiously. Like wise to those on the other side. If you truly care at all about religion stop trying to pass it off as scientific fact or some need for it to be thus.

It is good for our children (I am a religious person myself.) to learn both science and their respective religion(s). Evolution is important to learn. It is basically change/adaptation over time/generations. Nothing more nothing less. It is provable and does not threaten religion in any way unless people take it too far. Like wise religion does not threaten science in any way until people take it too far. Most of the greatest scientists the world has ever seen were religious men and women as well. If they can live in harmony in those brilliant men and women I believe they can live in harmony today as well.

Maybe I am asking too much from the extremes on both sides but, I do believe by and large most people here can see the wisdom in that.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 36 (view)
 
Obama's Secret Agenda to bring about Socialism
Posted: 10/21/2009 11:24:11 PM


So what percentage of socialist countries don't engage in wealth redistribution


What percentage of them did not have to repair the damages of a capitalist system before they can become a socialist country?



Which socilaist political parties are against wealth redistribution?


Libertarian socialists might be a good place for a self proclaimed "anarchist" to start to investigate. You did claim to be an anarchist in another thread yes? I would not say they were "against" it but, they are not "for" it either. More like voluntary co-ops and unions as opposed to government forced ones. hmmmm.

 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 35 (view)
 
Obama's Secret Agenda to bring about Socialism
Posted: 10/21/2009 11:09:28 PM



So what's so wrong about socialism?


Lets say I have three cows...my neighbor only has one cow...A socialist government will take a cow from me that I paid for,fed and raised and give it to my neighbor. This way we both have two cows...equality...



PS that is not socialism that is some half baked pipe dream of yours.

Socialism would be you and your neighbor would pool your money together and get more cows for the dollar and both of you would come up. United we stand divided we look like a bunch of idiots whom cant do basic math.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 34 (view)
 
Obama's Secret Agenda to bring about Socialism
Posted: 10/21/2009 11:01:06 PM


SOCIALISM ...bad.......umkay!


Oh yes must get rid of those Evil socialist Fire departments all over the country. Those evil socialist public libraries, and those god forsaken public works. No one who cannot afford Haliburton to come to their house and put out the fire at 200xs the cost should have their house fires put out and if they cant afford to pay Haliburton to rescue them from the fire they should roast like the no good pigs they are! Damn people learning in those evil socialist libraries too! only the rich should learn anything and they should pay through the nose for a private library or be damned! Yeah water and sewage should only be for rich mouth and feces if you can't afford it you should die of thirst or some infection from lack of sanitation !

Lets not forget those military people leeching off the VA and sucking the governments teat eating all that evil socialist food, and being put up in evil socialist barracks and flown all over the place in all that wicked socialist equipment. Damn if those commie **stards want anything to defend the country they should buy it their damn selves and stay out of our pocketbook. Those evil socialist generals should have to buy mercenaries from other countries in fact at the highest cost possible with their own money and if they dont have enough those dirty **stards need to have a bake sale!

Down with the socialists! Love it or leave it and all that drivel! YEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAWWW!

*shakes his head in disbelief at how short sighted some people can be.*
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 65 (view)
 
Did their evil know no bounds?
Posted: 10/21/2009 6:45:24 PM
To anyone confused and bent out of shape about this it is something called Satire. It takes a certain amount of intellect to grasp. I am glad it is making a come back I was so sick of Situation comedy. It makes for dumb audiences looking for someone to get hit in the balls, or fart on a date.

Oh speaking of satire...

Ever check out the republicans for rape site? Maybe I should make a new thread.. hehe
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 310 (view)
 
Are vegans and PETA more moral and ethical than society?
Posted: 10/3/2009 10:27:45 PM


Maybe we'll be eating soylent green in the not too distant future?


Or each other.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 111 (view)
 
RE: The right to protest?
Posted: 10/3/2009 2:43:06 PM
Paul going to have to disagree with you here man. I would suggest a good study of the subject of anarchism. They are not what many people think. A true anarchist wants nothing to do with mayhem and violence.

They want voluntary unions and co-ops instead of government. They are very much akin to what people call libertarians here. There are many forms of anarchism.

They all basically want the government to get out of peoples lives and let the people make unions and co-ops to take care of each/govern themselves without oppressive type government interference.

The litmus test to a true Anarchist is to look at forms of authority and see if they serve a positive function without oppression. ie fire department needed they serve the people. Police needed but, their power will be reduced to not make them oppressive. Basically any form of authority that is only or mostly oppressive will be done away with to be replaced with organization of the people to handle their own problems.. If they serve a positive function for the people and are of the people they will be left in place.

Anarchy has nothing to do with chaos,violence nor mayhem, at all. It is VERY organized.

Let me leave you with some reading material to get a clearer picture of what anarchist thought is all about.

Noam Chomsky is one of the most famous Anarchists alive today. Anarchism is also sometimes called Libertarian Socialism, anarcho-syndicalism, there are capitalist anarchists, free-trade anarchists. etc etc etc.

There most certainly are not little snot nosed punk kids whom think that they need to cause chaos. Those are poser idiots.

http://www.radical.org.uk/anarchism/
http://www.geocities.com/nestor_mcnab/anread.htm
http://www.chomsky.info/articles/1970----.htm

After you read some of this you might understand why people try to misrepresent what they are really all about.


 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 72 (view)
 
Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 10/3/2009 2:11:12 PM


Secondly, the term "rightwing dictator" is an oxymoron. In countries with dictators the dictator is the government.... so if all industry is controlled by the dictator then it is government controlled. It has been the work of spin doctors to make people believe that government controlled industry is something to be considered rightwing.


There can be right wing or left wing dictators.



Main Entry: dic·ta·tor
Pronunciation: \ˈdik-ˌtā-tər, dik-ˈ\
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin, from dictare
Date: 14th century

1 a : a person granted absolute emergency power; especially : one appointed by the senate of ancient Rome b : one holding complete autocratic control c : one ruling absolutely and often oppressively
2 : one that dictates


It matters not one bit whom owns what it matters if anyone else has a say. If all the power of government control is in one persons hands it is a dictator.

It is you whom is trying to spin it so that there can only be a such thing as a "left wing" dictator.

That is the new game these days I have noticed by those whom would call themselves "right wing" to claim only the left can be tyrants.

So funny people forget about the long long long list of right wing dictators.

example.



Pinochet = right wing dictator
Saddam= right wing dictator
Noriega= right wing dictator
Trujillo=right wing dictator
GENERAL HUMBERTO BRANCO=right wing dictator
ALFREDO STROESSNER= right wing dictator
FULGENCIO BATISTA=right wing dictator
FRANÇOIS & JEAN CLAUDE DUVALIER=right wing dictator
FERDINAND MARCOS=right wing dictator
SIR HASSANAL BOLKIAH=right wing dictator
GENERAL SITIVENI RABUKA=right wing dictator
GENERAL SUHARTO=right wing dictator
MOHAMMAD REZA PAHLEVI=right wing dictator
GENERAL FRANCISCO FRANCO=right wing dictator
ANTONIO DE OLIVEIRA SALAZAR=right wing dictator
GEORGE PAPADOPOULOS=right wing dictator
TURGUT OZAL=right wing dictator
Kaing Kai Chek=right wing dictator

this list is not even exhaustive. There have been TONS more right wing dictators.
and lets not forget the one that is going on in Honduras right now also right wing dictators. You seem to be in denial. I do not deny the fact that there have been and are lefty dictators. I could care less again I do not identify with either side. I might have views that more often than not fall into what would be considered leftist views but, that does not make me a leftist. I also have some views that do not.


Yes there are plenty of dictators from the other side as well. To say that there is no such thing as right wing dictators is to ignore the facts. While it is convenient it is an outright lie.


In Honduras now there are Republican senators from our country going down there against the request of our president, to meet with the dictatorship. You think right wing republicans are going to go buddy buddy up with lefties? Why are they once again trying to subvert democracy by giving any credibility what so ever to a group that by coup is trying to take over and put that nation under a dictatorship?

************************************

As far as your view that many corporations are not being gangster laughable. I think you still dont know the history of what corporate america has been doing in the third world yet. Study up some man. You will be shocked. Subversion of democracies, coups, dictatorships, massacres, all in the name of corporate hegemony.

Call me what you will but, I just look at the facts that they are not even ashamed of. They boast about this shit. It goes against everything this nation was founded on.

http://www.unitedfruit.org/chron.htm

I am not here talking about "conspiracy theories" I am referring to historical undisputed conspiracy facts.

I am not here talking about miles per gallon. If you wish to talk about that tell me why my 1968 Volkswagen Bug gets 28-30 mpg but you are talking about 20 for today's cars. Since you brought it up.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 107 (view)
 
RE: The right to protest?
Posted: 10/3/2009 1:05:21 PM


Now, how about the groups that intentionally show up to cause mayhem and violence, because they say that is the only way that they can get their point across?



Soon as they break the law and/or act in violence I think they should be dealt with to the letter of the law. There is no need to get violent to make a point.

Peaceful protests are powerful.

If they dont get that and think acting in violence is the way, then I dont feel sorry for them one bit when they get arrested or even catch an ass whipping by the cops at that point because then they started the violence and received the consequences.

I am only opposed to when the people are unarmed and not being violent such as the lady with the sign in the suit whom the police shot with rubber bullets. There was no need for that nonsense. IF she was breaking the law they could have walked up and arrested her.

Same for the 98lb lady in that other video. The cops did not have to swing their clubs on them they were unarmed and not being violent. They were not following order to back off but, that is hardly a reason to beat them a simple slapping on the cuffs, arrest would have been fine.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 104 (view)
 
RE: The right to protest?
Posted: 10/3/2009 12:50:35 PM
I have no problem with undercover cops posed as protesters IF they are not trying to incite a riot by acting violent.

Also I know some protest groups do not go through the care of training people in nonviolence and civil disobedience. I know that there are protests that go wrong because of douche nozzles that come along to cause trouble and are not there to really protest never said once that that does not happen.

I am also saying that I know for a fact that certain groups of law enforcement (by and large most often not involved with regular police forces) DO pose as agent provocateurs in order to silence protests. They also illegally bust into peoples houses whom are not breaking the law, using things like the patriot act to try to intimidate anti-war groups.

This is nothing new.

Again not saying everyone or always here man. I am saying it does occur and needs to stop. People have the right to peacefully assemble and protest. My interest in this is I believe they should be left in peace as long as they continue to be peaceful even if I dont agree with what they might be protesting about.

If someone broke a law but is being otherwise peaceful they can simply walk up and arrest them there is no need to beat on them, shoot tear gas, shoot rubber bullets or any of that.

If they are a peaceful why would you want to make it violent?


The issues I seen in some of these videos and sometimes first hand by being at the wrong place at the wrong time, is some of these cops look at these people as "cockroaches"(their own words in that video from Miami) instead of humans and it shows with the way they are treating them.

I am not against the police or the government. I am against improper actions by either of them. I am also against protesters whom act improperly, I am not picking sides based on who they are but, how they act.

Just like the protesters need to be properly trained and dealt with when they act inappropriately, so too do the police.

I do not belong to any groups that protest like this but, I stand up for peoples right to do so peacefully. I have no issue with the police breaking up violence. It is their job but, I do have an issue with the inciting it where there was none.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 102 (view)
 
RE: The right to protest?
Posted: 10/3/2009 12:23:17 PM

What happened after the cops were no longer there?



The protest remained peaceful after the cops whom were trying to incite a riot were removed. This is why I said before if you are in a group that protests or lead one you have to make sure everyone is trained in nonviolence and civil disobedience and anyone you see that screams something to incite violence or anyone whom tries to show any kind of violent inclinations needs to be called out and taken to the police to be arrested. I would also demand to know whom they work for.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 100 (view)
 
RE: The right to protest?
Posted: 10/3/2009 12:13:19 PM
did you not watch the video? it has nothing to do with a certain crowd at all. It has to do with the fact that undercover cops were caught trying to incite violence at a peaceful protest by the leaders of the protest and the cops even admitted they were undercover after the fact.

Look at the video man! It is a COP undercover DRESSED as if he was a real protester and he grabs a rock and starts advancing on the police lines like he is going to attack them in order to incite violence at an otherwise peaceful protest.

Thank god the leaders of the protest saw it in time to get them arrested.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 98 (view)
 
RE: The right to protest?
Posted: 10/3/2009 12:06:35 PM


The cop actually pushed some of the "protestors"?????? A crime against humanity, I say!


Nice trying to dodge whats really going on man. These cops are acting like they are protesters and then they are trying to incite violence so they can arrest people whom are peacefully assembling. That is the point. They are breaking the law dressed as protesters so they can claim it is a violent protest. That is the crime.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 70 (view)
 
Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 10/2/2009 5:41:51 PM


I always wonder at the hostility from so many on the left for older people.


First I am not from the left nor the right. I belong to no political parties thanks. Second I was talking about oil not people. PS my granddads generation was before the moon landing. just to let you know he was in ww2 born in 1908 though others in his family say his family bible lied and had the wrong date and some said he was actually born in 1898 no one knows for sure. He been gone a long time. My point was we still using something from his time to get around. Give me a break.






If I were to go solar power (just to cover the electricity I already use) it would cost 20 to 30K. If I were to have an electric car my electricity consumption would probably be fifty times what it is now (the ammount of electricity used to power a 60 hp motor even for 5 hours a week is phenonomal compared to a refrigerator or microwave).


Uhm no it wont. You can make your own solar panels quite cheap. It is not even that difficult plenty of plans you can get for free on line. The main thing you need is a south facing view of sun clear of shade. The rest is a bit of study and work on your part if you dont want to pay that much.



Again I am not from the left the right or any other direction. I am not a D or an R or any other letter.


As far as oil barons and major corporations not being gangster HAHAHAHA! nice joke.

Then do tell why we had things like banana republics, wars over unions, invading every country that tries to nationalize oil and put in extreme right wing dictators via violent coups? Oh yeah real nice guys those people. SURE!
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 56 (view)
 
Capitalism
Posted: 10/2/2009 2:04:59 PM
interesting opinion but, it does not make any sense. I know a great deal of people whom work on farms harder than anyone in wall street ever worked in their lives but, they are still poor as dirt. They are not lazy at all. In fact most wall street friends of mine where some of the laziest **stards I knew. Not to mention some of my uber rich friends who never worked a day in their lives, get fat, drunk, and other things we wont mention every day.

being lazy or working hard has nothing to do with it at all.

Me thinks you uninformed if you think it does.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 94 (view)
 
RE: The right to protest?
Posted: 10/2/2009 1:58:33 PM
My point in bringing this up is not to go there at all man.

My point is that for groups that wish to do nonviolent protest have to be VERY much so on the look out for people whom do these things. Sometimes they are not regular police, sometimes they are not from any law enforcement and can be from a rival political group, sometimes they are just an idiot with them that wants to start upheaval like you said. The main point I am making is if you are a protester or a in a group that engages in this activity and you see ANYONE trying to incite violence you need to call them out. Get them arrested immediately.

I happen to know a great deal about anarchists and most of what is said about them in media is completely false. The vast majority of true anarchists are more interested in starting unions and co-ops not riots and upheaval. Any anarchist whom wishes for "upheaval" is an idiot and a traitor to their cause. Because all upheaval will do is give an excuse for their opposite to say see people have to have authoritarian/police state in order to be civil.

I do not subscribe personally to any groups or entities at all. I do not even belong to a political party. I think they all have some good points and some weak spots but, my interest is to see people be able to use their right to protest and peacefully assemble without all this BS, no matter who starts it. Further in the case of that woman with the sign in the red. She was unarmed completely and obviously holding a sign with both hands in a suit no less. She was a threat to no one and they shot her twice. If she was somehow breaking the law then walk up and arrest her no need for violence. How she was breaking the law holding up a sign unarmed and peaceful is beyond me.

My point for bringing up the agent provocateurs is that it has and does sometimes happen and it is one of the greatest threats that any group that wishes to peacefully assemble has to be on the look out for.

I would still buy you a martini but, look man I am very cautious and distrusting of people whom like to put words in my mouth like that. I know sometimes it is a knee jerk response when a touchy subject comes up that may be against the beliefs of an individual but, some do it for far more shady reasons. Please do not do that, ask if you have a question of where I stand on things like that or if you are confused about a point I am making. I will be more than happy to explain myself, and we wont have any problems communicating that way.


 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 92 (view)
 
RE: The right to protest?
Posted: 10/2/2009 1:25:35 PM
Come on man you are not going to turn like that on me are you?

You are saying things I did not say at all. You are trying to make it seem like I am saying "all cops are bad etc." Then you are trying to shove words into my mouth that every time something goes down it is the cops.

I am saying it does happen that cops and other agencies more covert do these things sometimes. I showed you two cases where the proof is obvious and you wish to now ignore and write that tripe?

I had higher expectations from you man.

I am not saying every time it is the police I am saying that it has and does happen.

Look I am not hating on cops or the government saying they are all up to no good all the time. Hell I family whom have worked as cops. fbi secret service etc etc etc. I know they are not all bad but, I also know they have shady operations that are.

If you want to just try to act like a lot of other people on here and try to shove words into my mouth I did not even imply then, this conversation is over. Good day.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 13 (view)
 
Homophobia
Posted: 10/2/2009 1:17:10 PM
I dont think it answer the questions either. I have been hit on by a guy before but, that is because I was in a place that most of the people there were gay. I did not take offense, I said hey man thanks for the compliment but, I am straight thanks. He smiled and said no problem and that was that. It is not so difficult. It is no big deal!

If someone hits on you it is a compliment not an insult. Just let them know you are not interested it really is that simple.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 90 (view)
 
RE: The right to protest?
Posted: 10/2/2009 12:52:41 PM
look at this video again man the undercover cop goes to the line of riot police and picks up a rock and starts posturing himself like he is about to throw it. The cops grab him and act like they arrested arrest him ONLY after real protesters stop him and stall calling him out as a agent provocateur! No charges brought against them at all?! They tried to incite a riot by acting like protesters whom are picking up rocks to throw at the cops. That is ILLEGAL!

The canadian government even admitted they were undercover cops what else do you need?

Watch these clips man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWbgnyUCC7M

then watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBorUQyw3FA

Admitted.


Then look at this one from a different demonstration in the USA. Look at how the cops are acting after.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G63FEamhpA0

Look man I am not saying all cops are bad like this but to say this shit is not happening is sticking your head in the sand.

That lady was completely unarmed and nonviolent!
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 88 (view)
 
RE: The right to protest?
Posted: 10/2/2009 12:11:27 PM
look man I do not wish to derail the thread but we can chitchat about china and vietnam another time but, there were ways to deal with the issue instead of going it alone and becoming invaders of a country that quite frankly already had a hostile history of being invaded and occupied.

Please back on topic:

Look I do not think anyone in here is saying all cops are bad etc etc. I have friends and family that are cops too. I have even seen some cops walk off of riot lines when the other cops start misbehaving. It is a fact that there are plenty of dirty cops and slime balls in other agencies that do want to stop these groups from protesting and they do use these tactics. It is a known fact that in this case Canada even admitted they were cops.

Now if they were just undercover to "keep everyone safe" WHY were they threatening the police with rocks and trying to start a riot??!
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 86 (view)
 
RE: The right to protest?
Posted: 10/2/2009 11:02:31 AM

I am assuming that you are trying to tell me that since we don't have the right to tell other nations what kind of govt. they must have, then I am CERTAIN, that you would say the same thing to the communist chinese, correct?



Absolutely. I do not think we should be using violence or forcing any system on anyone. When I say we I am speaking of the brotherhood of man. So yes ALL nations. I do know where you are going with this too, but, I must say that it was still not our place to get involved in another nations civil war in the way we did. There were other ways to deal with what was going on there.

Thanks for asking since most on here just try to shove words into peoples mouth they disagree with. As I said I respect you greatly for the way you handle yourself in here. We may agree to disagree but, I would go have a beer or your drink of choice with ya in a minute. You seem like a decent person and I like to look beyond politics when making friend choices.

Thanks for being a partner in the conversation always helps to have an opposing view to bring out more thoughts.

Here's to ya



Let me also add this, to get back to the topic at hand. You said I need to have my head examined to think that Agent provocateurs are used by police and others to incite violence to break up protests.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBorUQyw3FA
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 84 (view)
 
RE: The right to protest?
Posted: 10/2/2009 10:54:22 AM


The answer is in the question, because it can never work.


I try to remember that lie even though china is poised to be the next economic super power.



Thanks for the compliment!


NP man I have a few in my family I love dearly, they are nutty as all get out but, I still love ya'll.

So glad you didnt take it the wrong way.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 82 (view)
 
RE: The right to protest?
Posted: 10/2/2009 10:48:27 AM


Further, and this is a pre-emptive strike: Remember, it was the communist chinese that wanted to turn viet nam communist, THAT was why we were there in the first place. Sort of how we stopped the communists in Korea


Yeah and we have the right to tell other nations what kind of government they must have why?

If communism is so broken and can "never work" why is it america is so afraid of it?

It reminds me of the insurance lobby that claims government run programs would end up a total mess and would not be as efficient etc etc but, if this is true why is that industry so afraid to compete against it? Because they know their claims are untrue.

You sound like a Reaganite Milton Friedman worshiper to me. While Friedman was a great propagandist he was an idiot if believed in even half of what he said. 99% of what he said just blew up in our faces with this economic collapse.

Also, it set the stage for what is causing these protests in the first place. A small group of oligarchs trying to dominate the world.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 294 (view)
 
Are vegans and PETA more moral and ethical than society?
Posted: 10/2/2009 10:31:50 AM
Alright let me jump in here and say, first I was once a vegan. Not because of some belief that it is somehow "wrong" to eat meat but, because I highly disagree with modern conventional farming practices. Well I continued not eating any animal products, I ate a diet laid out by nutritionists and slowly I got sicker and sicker until, I started passing out. I was taken to the hospital and they ran all sorts of blood test. Vitamin levels normal everything seemed to be in order. The doctors were baffled.

They then asked me what I have changed lifestyle wise looking for whatever they could. I told them I became a vegan within the year, the doctor said try eating some meat and see if it helps.

Sure enough after that no more passing out. Now I eat some organic free range meat, about 2-4 times a month and never had that problem again. I asked the doctor how this could be and he told me there are some studies that suggest that people of my blood type O- have this issue sometimes. He said he is unsure as to the why of it but, it is what fixed the issue.



Now let's talk about this sanely shall we? Life feeds on life. It matters not one iota if you are killing a plant and eating it or killing an animal. To me what matters is that you honor what you eat and treat it decently while it is alive. You are honoring the things you eat for it truly even scientifically speaking becomes a part of you after this. After your body breaks down the food it takes those parts and makes new parts and repairs old ones out of it.

As far as the group PETA goes. Well I would not call them terrorists per se but, they are extremists for certain. I think the word terrorist is far too overused.

For the people quoting Gandhi do note that Gandhi experimented with eating meat, do know that Gandhi also said, it is far worse of an offense for a vegetarian to criticize a meat eater than it is for one to consume meat.

For those whom say meat eaters are evil/amoral and vegetarians are somehow moral/saints POPPYCOCK!

Now that said there are issues I do agree with PETA on.

We should not be abusing animals in the way the farming industry does. ie putting them in cages stacked on top of each other, chopping off their beaks and, to never let them live their normal natural lives and serve their natural functions, overcrowding them and making them stand in their own feces, injecting hormones, other chemicals, mucking around with their genetics, feeding them things unhealthy for them to eat etc.


As far as the people whom wish to look at certain traits of humans and claim we were never intended to eat meat at all. More poppycock.

Humans are omnivores, this does not mean we always HAVE to eat meat but, it means we CAN eat both.

It also means that it is not healthy to ONLY consume meat.

One trait the people always forget to point out is, that all vegetarian mammals have eyes that can see behind them since, they are a prey animal and all hunters have eyes that look straight forward. Which eyes do you have?

Humans are a hunter get over it!

There are some few people who should never eat meat as well, just as there are some like myself whom MUST consume it.

Look everyone is unique. I know this goes counter to your ideas you may have been fed about humans but, it is a fact.

In this case I would say please DO stand up for animals not being abused and DO fight the systems of farming being practiced because they are outright only being used to make more profit and do not benefit either the consumer nor the animals they consume on the health level. In fact these practices are a threat to both the health of the animals some of us eat as well as the pollution problems and other issues they cause, and of course this will have health ramifications of those whom not only consume them but, live near the farms.

I would ask my vegan friends to not be so judgmental on people eating the animals but, try to bring them to a better way that takes into account the proper care and treatment of the animals during their life.

I believe most people would get behind a campaign to ensure farmers are not abusing the animals we are going to eat because what we eat becomes a part of us. I do not wish to have a sad abused animal for dinner. I want a healthy happy one to become part of me.

I do not think any meat consumer would disagree with a stance that called for better treatment. If this group continues to criticize people for consuming meat they will just continue to alienate themselves and the good issues they do bring up will easily be swept under the rug as just another lunatic claim.

I have noticed though that a lot of my vegan friends are quite angry and depressed people I wonder if lack of B vitamins have anything to do with that.
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 107 (view)
 
Kirk Cameron compares Charles Darwin to Hitler!
Posted: 10/2/2009 8:43:56 AM


I agree as well. I have no truck with those who wish to study evolution, or those who wish to teach evolution to those who wish to study it. I simply maintain that as long as many teach that evolution is the only way, and creationism is false delusion that should be outlawed, the consequences of such views will breed masses of intolerance, and it is this intolerance that is the breeding ground for much violence, and even many wars. Without this intolerance of attitude, there would not be so much intolerance of attitude, and there would not be as much intolerant violence and wars.


Oh I agree with you that there are extremists on both side of this issue. I think that is the problem. Religious people should not stand in the way of evolution being taught, and science should not being trying to put itself against religion either. They should teach the science period. No need to even mention religion in science unless you are studying the science of studying religions.

By and large though, the people whom stand out the most in my experience as being overly extremeist on this issue are definitely religious (Mostly american Christians) people whom wish to try to stop the science of Evolution from being taught. Since we are on the topic anyone seen the news about this lately?

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Technology/ardi-fossil-brings-us-closer-common-ancestor-humans/story?id=8716359

That is probably not the best story written on it but, it gets the word out to those whom didnt know about it.

Love the conversation so far been interesting.
 
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