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 SueCat51
Joined: 8/11/2007
Msg: 9
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CHANGING PEOPLEPage 3 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
I'm not so sure that men our age always want to change us, but it seems they want to "fix us". Ok, I've heard enough that men are problem solvers. If a man is wanting to fix something, then I suggest a trip to Home Depot It really is simple, middle aged women want to be listened to, not fixed, not changed.
 MacKevinized
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 13
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CHANGING PEOPLE
Posted: 6/1/2008 3:17:37 PM

Why is it that men don't want anyone to try to "change" them (and rightly so), but they believe that they can "change" women -- and especially at our ages.....I don't get it! Is it an "alpha male"/"macho" kind of thing?


Why is it that women don't want anyone to try to "change" them (and rightly so), but they believe that they can "change" men -- and especially at our ages.....I don't get it! Is it an "alpha female"/"feminist" kind of thing?

And who would even want to be with someone who was "pretending" to be what that individual wanted him or her to be? Doesn't that seem like a "prescription for misery"?

I welcome any insights anyone has to share. Peace
 ankkka
Joined: 8/29/2007
Msg: 14
CHANGING PEOPLE
Posted: 6/1/2008 4:35:01 PM
mackevinized...

Who's going to change you...if you won't want?
 TxSippiGal
Joined: 9/30/2007
Msg: 15
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CHANGING PEOPLE
Posted: 6/1/2008 5:11:19 PM
Now I think I am right but I could be wrong.. but I think sometimes we romantacize someone and we build them up in our mind and because we are so fond of them we think we know them. Then when they begin to take on behavior outside our little box it upsets us when all along we just didn't know them that well.

Rather than accept it as being new information about the person I think sometimes we try to quelch it.. we try to change them so they fit into the box again. For some reason maybe we are uncomfortable with the unknown.
 Celticmist
Joined: 2/1/2005
Msg: 16
CHANGING PEOPLE
Posted: 6/1/2008 5:33:08 PM
Lordy I have enough trouble fixing myself, trying to change someone is way beyond my capabilities or desire. I just take people as they are and hope they will return the favour.
 My I
Joined: 1/23/2007
Msg: 17
CHANGING PEOPLE
Posted: 6/1/2008 6:00:28 PM
I was in two long term relationships that covered a span of 19 years. My attitude back then, as is now, revolved on making things work as one without losing our autonomy as an individual. I was never arrogant enough to think a person must change to suit my liking. I never dated these women with the intentions of changing the personality/person I fell in love with. I still feel the same way. Unfortunately, these women I chose felt differently about change - it was a one-way street. In both cases, they were who they wanted to be and when they thought I was the one who will change to suit their needs (misgivings) I walked out on both of them (1995, 2001 respectively). I changed... but there was a limit as to the amount of change I would permit.

However, contrary to the OP's understanding, I find many women have become more independant, more assertive and more self-centred in their own wants, wishes and desires. To camoflage their own behaviour they blame men for wanting to change them. The bottom line is, you never do change unless you want to (for good reasons and/or for bad reasons).

Society, in general, has become very selfish... I don't buy into the excuse that men are trying to change women. I'm of the opinion, some women/men don't want to change for the sake of the relationship - the relationship must revolve around them. Many profiles share such a sentiment. "That's who I am and you're not going to change me... but I'll change you." is not a very mature way to approach a relationship - for either gender. In fact, I wouldn't call that a relationship.
 Moonchild51
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 19
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CHANGING PEOPLE
Posted: 6/1/2008 8:13:14 PM
I think sometimes when one becomes a couple, certain aspects about their person do in fact change. Hopefully for the better! lol
But one must never lose sight of who they are. As far as changing someone's personality? Why would anyone want to do that? You would lose the person you fell in love with!
 vbxtc
Joined: 3/31/2006
Msg: 20
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CHANGING PEOPLE
Posted: 6/1/2008 8:32:22 PM
The best piece of advice I ever got on the subject was from a former boss. She had been married at that point for about 20 years and said that her future father-in-law had once told her before she got married to make a list of the 5 things that bugged her the most about her potential mate. He then said, "if you don't think you can live with at least three of them, forget it". He might eventually change that behavior...or not.
 MacKevinized
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 21
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CHANGING PEOPLE
Posted: 6/2/2008 4:49:10 AM
So you feel you're a happy single and you meet another happy single and the first thing you want to do is change them from being single into being a couple.

Then you do what ever you can to change them until you do become a couple and when you see the other has a frown and you try to change that into a smile and it works so you keep trying.

Then you notice that others recognize you are with a happy person and they gravitate towards this happy person and you get jealous that this person you were making smile is now making others smile. So you decide to change them so you won't be jealous and succede ant making them stop making people happy and you're with an emotional dud that wants to be happy. The dud looks at happy people and wishes to have that but knows it will make you unhappier if they try to attain that and the unhappy person ends up dominating the relationship.

So if you don't want to change anyone, just give up on having a relationship and profess how happy you are without a relationship.
 MacKevinized
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 28
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Posted: 6/3/2008 8:24:30 AM
Truthfully, I believe this 'you can't change people' is a bunch of psycho-babble.


Of course you can change people or there would be no psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers, marketing, politicians or other professions that depend on changing people.

Here's an easy experiment you can all do to prove how you can change people. If you can find someone that really, really likes you, have them come over to visit and make them some coffee, tea, whatever and have them sit at your dining table. While they are enjoying a perfectly comfortable conversation with you, innocently drop a spoon on the floor and get on your knees. While under the table grab the hammer you hid there and slam it down on their big toe and start screaming about what a fool they are and with a wild look in your eye chase them out of your house.

There you have it, you've changed them forever....

On the other hand, you could be nice to people that you don't like and watch how that changes them too.

My GF tries to changes me all the time. I can feel a bit down about something and she makes me laugh. What's wrong with that?
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 32
CHANGING PEOPLE
Posted: 6/3/2008 5:41:28 PM
That being said, good luck to any man, who expects me to roll over and fetch his slippers.

I would be willing to chew them up...

Most men that I've either communicated with or met expected me to drop everything in my life, to meld into their lifestyle, move to their city, leave my friends and family and fit into their schedule


That's not entirely their fault, though. They are thinking "back in the day"...when most young women's #1 priority was to get married and have a home and family of her own, and they were willing to "drop everything" to get that marriage. That's where a lot of us started out, even though,at the time, there was some lip service being paid to the idea of women being just as entitled to go to college and have careers. To all practical purposes, marriage and motherhood was THE career.

So now 30 or 40 yrs later, men just assume that having a man in our life is STILL something we are willing to make huge sacrifices for. And when we aren't, then we are some kind of feminazi, who the hell ever heard of a woman's friends, family, interests and goals being more important than getting herself a man!
But I think that what's being discussed here is trying to change someone's character, core values, or philosophy of life. Which to me seems utterly stupid. Why bother. If the person YOU are, conflicts with the person your partner/prospective partner is, you either live with it or move on.
Cindy O
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 33
CHANGING PEOPLE
Posted: 6/3/2008 5:47:14 PM

So you feel you're a happy single and you meet another happy single and the first thing you want to do is change them from being single into being a couple.

No, but I might suggest that we 2 happy singles could walk beside each other so as to more deeply enjoy this journey called Life.
Cindy O
 rossal
Joined: 12/5/2005
Msg: 36
CHANGING PEOPLE
Posted: 6/4/2008 10:32:18 AM
I hate change, so I never want to change, LOL, LOL

I don't even like to change my toothpaste brand!

Since life is ALL about change, it's a challenge, LOL, LOL

Rossal
 rossal
Joined: 12/5/2005
Msg: 37
CHANGING PEOPLE
Posted: 6/4/2008 10:36:08 AM
MacKevinized: Psychologists, psychiatrists, etc., etc....DO NOT change people........the clients make changes themselves.......NO ONE can change us, but professionals can give us the insight and tools for us to make the changes we wish to.

(Undergrad in Psych....and a lifetime of common sense!)
 MacKevinized
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 38
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Posted: 6/4/2008 3:26:02 PM

MacKevinized: Psychologists, psychiatrists, etc., etc....DO NOT change people........the clients make changes themselves.......NO ONE can change us, but professionals can give us the insight and tools for us to make the changes we wish to.

(Undergrad in Psych....and a lifetime of common sense!)


OK, so you weren't changed by abuse. You were naturally born to take it eh? And a lifetime of common sense made you stay there, right?

All those people at Jonestown wanted the kool-aid after all.
 ankkka
Joined: 8/29/2007
Msg: 40
CHANGING PEOPLE
Posted: 6/4/2008 5:24:12 PM
Probably...your body and personality change every 7 years...
 rearguard*2
Joined: 2/8/2008
Msg: 44
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CHANGING PEOPLE
Posted: 6/5/2008 7:49:01 AM
People of all races have died so that they could vote, and people are still to this day dying so that they can hope to have the right to vote. Black people in the West have died more recently, but one should be aware that many white americans died in the Civil War so that blacks could eventually have the right to vote. If the statistics were known, probably more whites have died for black civil rights than have blacks.

All of these ethnic/racial/politico-social barrier issues are frought with myths which are largely not true, or distorted for the current political convenience, and are the main source of future violence between people. In the US, the right to vote was first won with revolution for white men, then through war for black men, then through demonstration for women, then through bloodshed for blacks again in the South. In the broad view, however, it is another struggle by people for political and social freedom which is far from over.
 rearguard*2
Joined: 2/8/2008
Msg: 46
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Posted: 6/5/2008 11:08:52 AM
I am not steamed. I just observe that the whole issue is not a Black issue. Its a people issue, and I think that it is a very important people issue.
 ankkka
Joined: 8/29/2007
Msg: 50
CHANGING PEOPLE
Posted: 6/6/2008 4:46:18 AM
I changed my opinion...

Yes...it is possible...and yes...can be positive...just depends on the kind of influence you use...and depends on the person's personality...you want to change...
We can change person's attitude ...behavior...manners...feelings and beliefs...
 rearguard*2
Joined: 2/8/2008
Msg: 52
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Posted: 6/6/2008 7:54:43 AM
Indeed, I am familiar with the history of black soldiers in the US Military, and its not an exemplary story in any way.

Personally, I don't believe that people in general can be significantly changed by others in the usual course of life. By the time one gets to this age, the methods, thoughts and approaches one has developed over life are pretty solidly ingrained, and only rather dramatic influences will cause them to change, an then only temporarily. They say that children don't listen, but my experience is that its adults that don't listen. Children listen, evaluate and learn, and adopt according to their experience. Adults, however, tend to do the same thing over and over, and rarely take advice.

As to how a black woman should think, anybody who believes that black people should or do think any differently from any other color of skinned person should think is, in my view, lacking any knowledge of or understanding of the nature of the human being. We all think in ways that we learned at a very early age from those around us at the time and in the place we grew up. That has absolutely nothing to do with color, is not related to genetics, and is largely based on social norms and practices that are of centuries and millennial past origin.

Politicians, on the other hand, continuously strive to profit from tribal tendencies that are manifest in human behavior by first emphasizing trivial differences in people, such as color, language, ethnic origin, physical stature, religion, eating habits, living habits, education and a host of other things so that they can gain power of various groups. As a child, I was forced to identify myself according to the religion of myself and my family for all kinds of administrative purposes, even although I had concluded that religion was largely based on historical myths of dubious factual authenticity. This was solely to enable governments to discriminate against various groups in society. Today, that practice is illegal here, and frankly, things are much better for it.

I support the struggle for equal rights for all people, but I am always sensitive to basing such struggle on the specific characteristics of individuals or groups.
 MacKevinized
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 53
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Posted: 6/6/2008 8:06:58 AM

BUT we can influence them by our actions and sharing our thoughts with them. The final act of them changing comes from them, not us. JMO


If you've influenced them to change, then you have proven you can make them change.
The simple act of leaving a relationship forces change on them. They go from being in a relationship to not being in a relationship.

Pavlov proved you can induce changes and many psychological theories and methods have been formulated since then to make people change.

I believe the issue is being changed into something you don't want to be changed into and that, I can agree is not always a good thing.
 ankkka
Joined: 8/29/2007
Msg: 54
CHANGING PEOPLE
Posted: 6/6/2008 8:31:03 AM
Just few things...
-to be more romantic...generous...less impatient and rarely feel anger...
 dakota1955
Joined: 6/20/2007
Msg: 62
CHANGING PEOPLE
Posted: 6/11/2008 8:10:45 AM
MUSHA ON THAT ONE
 Rythmn
Joined: 1/21/2006
Msg: 63
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Posted: 3/10/2009 11:40:51 AM
women think men want to change them, because (assuming they are heterosexual) that is who they are meeting and yearning for: men. men think women want to change them, (assuming that they are heterosexual) because that is who they are meeting and yearning for: women. now, if you are a gay man or lesbian, you just have to own up that this is "who" you are meeting.

i can't expect to meet the love of what's left of my life, w/o doing the work to find him/her. work can be fun! it' s like knowing you want a toyota and you keep yelling at the fords. yes, men and women clearly have different brains. that doesn't necessarily mean either has to change. there is such a thing as yin and yang and complementarity, teamwork and/or interdependence.

it's like insisting someone speaking spanish must speak french. ya each gotta learn the other's language. hey, i'm still learning "californian" and believe me it's a feat for a brooklyn jewish broad! there are also cultural and regional linguistic and communication styles and preferences.

i think, for me, that i need to get at the underlying intention of those who i need or want in my life. all in all, i think there is a certain sense of humor to be found in the whole scenario. so, essentially gotta choose to laugh or to cry. i've done my share of crying. laughing is a lot more fun (and a lot less work!). for me, i'm learning to get out of the box, challenge my "preferences", not take sh-t from control freaks, but also try to excercize some compassion. all in all, i think we (men and women), broadly speaking have a lot more in common, than we do differences. of course, there are many different combos and preferences within that broad sweep.

we all do life, lose things, lose people, suffer, rejoice, fart, et al. we need to find our own power, so that we don't crumble when we "perceive" someone is out to get us. many people will operate out of fear or ignorance or even guilt. some can't think past their own nose, let alone smell out who anyone else really is as a distinct human being. i believe the term for this is "alienation".

so, just gotta get around it some way, experiment, go out of the safety zone and find those who resonate with you, maybe even embrace the pain in the asses. i am sure nobody is such a "mutation" that they can't find a sense of community someplace. it all starts with "community", preceded by "humanity". it's challenging, but it's what makes us "alive". i believe spirit (or energy) enters the physical body to learn and to serve. when it comes to the opposite sexes, there is a lot of learning going on. after life is over, our bodies become just a whole lot of fertilizer. so, we'd better use it, before we lose it!
 treselle
Joined: 6/16/2005
Msg: 66
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Posted: 3/11/2009 8:37:08 AM
It is a control issue. Only controlling people do that. Such men love a shrew hoping to tame her. It is like taming a wild horse.
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