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 gentalltheway
Joined: 9/9/2006
Msg: 4
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The true state of Iraqi security forces todayPage 2 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)

I think that whoever is paying you to constantly criticize Our President and current administration is definitely getting their moneys worth


What does that has to do with anything? The topic is about “The true state of Iraqi security forces today" On the other hand, Bush deserves to be fully criticized for all the bullshit he caused so far and with crimes within the country and abroad. What he has done will not simply disappear because it bothers a few Bush’s apologists.


We as Americans will not back down but will advance because there r alot more of us backing our president and troops then not.


Are you in 2008 or stuck in 2001?

As far as the Iraqi army goes, there has been plenty of reports in the past years about some soldiers being trained by the US who will eventually use the training against the US. The US government often boosted reality (can you believe it? ) to look good through western media.

The bottom line was and still is that the US lost. As long as they will remain in Iraq, people will continue to rise against the occupiers by all means possible. Asking Iraqi soldiers and police to fight their own countrymen is no easy task and it will take a long time before all will do so. The part that I found interesting is when the US labelled the freedom fighters as terrorists. People who are defending their own country against an occupying force are terrorists/Al Qaeda. Some people bought that crap like hot bread.

I just cannot see any possible victory anytime soon for the reason mentioned above.

Donald Trump once said: “Declare victory and move out of Iraq.” When you think about it, the majority of citizens will have a wonderful sense of accomplishment….even if it is a lie. The media will take care of the rest by not publishing what’s REALLY going on in Iraq. Hey, it worked perfectly from the early 1990's when a US backed UN applied sanctions in Iraq that killed over 500,000 children. All we could read in the media was that life was moving on normally in the country.

Once that occurs, the Iraqi people will decide their own fate starting by removing the puppet government and have it replaced with a temporarily military regime. Oh it will not be easy for them but I believe that they will get out of this bullshit a stronger and united country. The problem with this scenario is that the next government might not be pro US which of course would be a problem.
 gentalltheway
Joined: 9/9/2006
Msg: 7
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The true state of Iraqi security forces today
Posted: 6/2/2008 9:42:53 AM

When the so-called mainstream media doesn't want you to know something, they simply spike the story - meaning they just don't cover it.


So true which is why most of the horrors of this war were not published. After all, it would’ve shown an entirely different story which would embarrass the US.


That's what's happened to the good news from Iraq. American heroes in flak jackets and helmets and their Iraqi counterparts are asserting rule of law for millions of grateful Iraqi civilians once tyrannized by al Qaeda terrorists and Shi'ite militias. In short, we are winning. That's the news that isn't news.


With all due respect to Mr. North, how does he base his beliefs? “we are winning”??? Riiight!


Was the Iraq War Worth It?
By Jeff Lukens


How can anyone buy anything from this reporter? This guy still believes that Iraq had WMD’s. And even worst, he believes that Iran is responsible for a large percentage of US casualties in Iraq. He has absolutely no credibility whatsoever. He sells for the far right...nothing more and without donations, he would be on his ass.


Iraq passed a turning point last fall when the U.S. counterinsurgency campaign launched in early 2007 produced a dramatic drop in violence and quelled the incipient sectarian war between Sunnis and Shiites


Just another bullshit report based on lies. The so called turning point was in September when Al Sadr had a cease fire/a six months truce with a rival Shia Muslim group. Results in reduction of violence was seen within the first month. The US through western media made it sound like it was their doing! It just proves once again to what extent the Bush government will go to look good.

Since the US with the Iraqi armies attacked them in March, violence went right back up and even the green zone is on constant attacks!

Just more propaganda and nothing more.
 OneBlend
Joined: 3/31/2007
Msg: 10
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The true state of Iraqi security forces today
Posted: 6/3/2008 7:49:03 PM

... because it doesn't go with the media's agenda to do all they can to make OUR President look bad.If u don't know why then check out some of the christian stations for full coverage of it all.

Bush is doing it all on his own .. he doesn't need MG to help him look bad. Another thing, is it mighty "Christianly" to belong to secret societies such as "skull and bones"?
Do your homework ... http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/02/60minutes/main576332.shtml
http://www.jeremiahproject.com/newworldorder/nworder03.html
Hence the hypocricy of this administration and sheep that follow.


We as Americans will not back down but will advance because there r alot more of us backing our president and troops then not.

Oh please, you must be of the 28% of Americans who are still sleeping at the wheel. We back are troops in so far as we are concerned for their safety and want them returned home alive. If they really wanted Bin Laden, don't you think they would have had him by now? It's taking them as long to find Bin Laden as it is to find those damn weapons of mas destruction.
Didn't take them but a minute to get Sadaam. Hmmm?
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 13
The true state of Iraqi security forces today
Posted: 6/5/2008 3:46:36 AM

Yes, I think that whoever is paying you to constantly criticize Our President and current administration is definitely getting their moneys worth...


I think there would be plenty of people lining-up to do this for free.

Of course the current administration includes the mongrel really responsible for this mess,D ick Cheney.

If there were any decency in the world, Cheyney and fellow hawk Rumsfeld would be held accountable in the Hague for the needless deaths of thousands of US soldiers and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians.

Billions and billions of dollars down the drain and all that death... for what?
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 16
The true state of Iraqi security forces today
Posted: 6/5/2008 9:54:02 AM
We won't let the Iraqis have air power, and not enough armor to be a threat to other countries. so, if we rely on armor and air support, then how are we training the Iraqis to be on their own?

As someone once said, you can't pay someone to die for your ideas. That's why our proxies in Lebanon always do so poorly against Hezbollah.

(and that's when we don't lose their AK-47's we have Max Bout bring in from Serbia :) )

If/when we bug out, I'll bet we won't take most of our sand-raveged equipment. Lobbyists, and Pentagon generals heading out the door to lobby firms, will get us all new equipment--while we leave our old stuff for the Iraqis to use. Or maybe we'll get them to buy new stuff from us, too, like we get the Saudis to do?

And Nona, why did those Kurds have to run, and we have to defend them? GB41 asked for a revolt against Saddam after 1991. the only ones to pick up on our request was the Kurds. Like the Bay of Pigs,we failed to step up to the plate, they weren't the guys we wanted running things south of Turkey. So, without any UN cover (show me where it exists), we installed a no-fly zone that ended up protecting those nice terrorists holding Mr. Z when he fled Afganistan...

Most humans will defend their own. If the Burmese generals, after seeing Katrina on TV, sent 5 naval ships near n'awlins on the claim we weren't saving our own, what do you think we would have done? accepted them with open arms? Look at how we recieved Cuba's offer.

But, to fight someone else's war? How well did the South Vietnamese do? Were they weak? or just cognizant of reality?
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 17
The true state of Iraqi security forces today
Posted: 6/6/2008 5:38:00 AM
Its true, nona, Saddam targeted the Kurds. So have our NATO ally, the Turks, which has invaded the northern region twice, while Iraq was under our control. We didn't stop either one. but, the Kurds have always claimed, "The Kurds have no friends but the mountains".

But 1991 wasn't the first time we asked the Kurds to revolt, I believe in the late 60's we asked for their help, and left 'em high and dry--that time, b/c we got the geopolitical move we wanted.

Also, you want us to take your word, then you say, "Wow...POF POSTERS!!! HOW MUCH MORE RELIABLE CAN ONE GET? lol"

Should I be snarky, and say, "I rest my case?" Seriously, the MidEast is as complex as any other resource-rich place, and thus difficult to make quick commentary upon. I'm sure we all agree on that point :)
 gentalltheway
Joined: 9/9/2006
Msg: 20
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The true state of Iraqi security forces today
Posted: 6/6/2008 1:20:21 PM

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d08143r.pdf isn't this site thet ya psoted mg abuut huw to be excaptad as a jihat?I cuuuld be wroang aboot thet thuugh


Kids, don't do drugs!
 JeffC13
Joined: 6/15/2007
Msg: 21
The true state of Iraqi security forces today
Posted: 6/6/2008 1:31:09 PM
I love when staunch 25 percenters go off on a rant about how "liberal" the media is. That's the biggest lie in all of this. The CORPORATE media has been in bed with this privatized occupation from day 1. If the media truly had it out to get Boy King, and wanted to stick it to the chickenhawks, it could end this calamity in about a week. All it would have to do is actually show the carnage on their nightly news and morning newspapers, or give peace activists equal time on their panels alongside paid military analysts. Instead, what we have is a sanitized, clean version of "news," approved by the Pentagon. In fact, they even NAME THEIR COVERAGE exactly what the Pentagon calls the operation.

As Amy Goodman said, "if this were state run media, how would it be any different?"
 LoonyTunz
Joined: 8/11/2006
Msg: 22
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The true state of Iraqi security forces today
Posted: 6/6/2008 4:55:18 PM

I draw a disability pension for life because of my injuries sustained during combat and one friendly fire incident. I was not in a combat unit, however, I was in combat. This makes me a combat veteran.

Wouldn't that also make a toddler injured by a stray round during a firefight a "combat veteran"? A non-combatant is a non-combatant whether or not they are injured during action between combatants. A disability claim simply reflects injure "on the job", being the job is a part of the military.
Since y'all keep bringing it up.
 LoonyTunz
Joined: 8/11/2006
Msg: 25
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The true state of Iraqi security forces today
Posted: 6/7/2008 9:44:56 AM
Actually that is NOT what I said. Either you are willfully blind on this or just choosing a battle where there is none.
I stated that to the best of my knowledge that US military still bars women from any active combat roles with the possible exception of pilots or naval service, and actually I had asked if that was still the case. I also am well aware that some countries do infact have women in actual combat roles, that doesn't mean your country is one of them. So an airforce fighter or bomber pilot that goes on combat mission (male or female it make not a bit of difference) IS a combat veteran, while a cook or a mechanic that takes a round or two is not a combat veteran just by virtue of being shot anymore than the examples in my previous post would be a combat veteran.
This has nothing to do with anything anti-woman, and everything to do with your use of "combat veteran" status to claim your "feelings" or "views" hold more weight than those of others, while the others provide verifiable facts to back up their opinion(which we can check and debate further if we wish). So in opposition to your view and your assertion that you know better than anyone else I simply called you on that statement, to which you admitted having never actually been part of any combat group.
 LoonyTunz
Joined: 8/11/2006
Msg: 27
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The true state of Iraqi security forces today
Posted: 6/7/2008 5:48:41 PM

Have you served in the military? I have. I'll take her words over yours any day of the week. As will most of her brothers and sisters in the US Armed Forces. I don't expect you to understand, but that's the way it is. I'm not sure what you mean by "false crutch", care to expound on that?

Actually I have military experience, not that it has any bearing on the topic at hand. Ask your brothers or sisters in the US military what they thought of Canadian sniper spotter teams and their performance in Afghanistan, hell ask them how many non-combatants those teams have taken out.

If you are to call an Iraqi fighting an occupying force a terrorist, you must also call all American revolutionaries terrorists aswell. Most were just common citizens, not in any uniform unhappy with what they felt was a government which did not represent their wishes. Are any of you trying to imply that the US actually represents the wishes of your average Iraqi rather than strictly American interests in the region or the interests of corporate America?
 LoonyTunz
Joined: 8/11/2006
Msg: 29
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The true state of Iraqi security forces today
Posted: 6/8/2008 3:33:25 AM
Touchdown since you say they are never seem on the battlefield, perhaps you should question your sources for reliability.


The kill, one of more than 20 unofficially accredited to Canadian snipers during Operation Anaconda in Afghanistan's Shah-i-Kot Valley, beat the 35-year-old record of 2,500 yards, or 2,250 metres, set by U.S. Marine Gunnery Sgt. Carlos Hathcock in Duc Pho, South Vietnam.

from www.snipercountry.com/articles/killingshot_2430metres.asp
And notice how many civilians they hit. Unlike the sniper in the next story.


updated 9:22 p.m. ET, Fri., June. 6, 2008
SAN DIEGO - A Marine sniper has been charged with two counts of voluntary manslaughter in the shooting deaths of two civilians in Iraq.

Sgt. John Winnick II also has been charged with aggravated assault against two other civilians and failing to adhere to the military's rules of engagement.

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25011867/
So really I'd suggest that living under Saddams rule was quite realistically safer, as there was only one wingnut to be concerned about. Medical aid could be had, water, electricity could be had, and sectarian violence was not the issue it is now right under the noses of British and American forces. Also I might point out that in a country such as this it is unlikely that Iraqs own security forces will be very equitable in dealing with sectarian issues, check-points have been known to display logos/slogans supporting one side or the other.
 LoonyTunz
Joined: 8/11/2006
Msg: 31
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The true state of Iraqi security forces today
Posted: 6/9/2008 9:18:35 AM
Not to be picky but did everyone overlook this big red flag.


"We have to rebuild a national Iraqi army, not built on sects, but the same way they built up the Anbar police," he said. "They must be well-armed, so they will be able to protect the country and all the American interests in the area.

Why would ANY Iraqi care about "American interests in the area". I can't see many in say Mobile, Jacksonville, Buffalo, or Sacramento giving much thought to "protecting German interests in the area", or French, or Canadian..... It is your country and within your borders should YOUR interests not be first and foremost?
Just saying I smell a puppet, same as Saddam was for decades before.
 show me please
Joined: 6/14/2008
Msg: 33
The true state of Iraqi security forces today
Posted: 6/23/2008 9:38:11 AM
we are winning in iraq!


there is less violence, conditions there improve everyday for everyone there!



lets salute president bush for this EXCELLENT turnaround!


maybe the biggest turnaround since the CIVIL WAR!
 LoonyTunz
Joined: 8/11/2006
Msg: 35
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The true state of Iraqi security forces today
Posted: 6/27/2008 10:12:03 AM

I have to respectfully disagree with your conclusion on how to get out of there...I say we have two choices - 1, get the women and kids out, go full-scale and flat out take over. Then SLOWLY give bits and pieces back as they handle things peacefully and get things working. That should take about a 100 yrs or so, give or take.... I don't think the rest of the middle east will go for that plan either.

So kill everyone with a penis.... How enlightened of you. Not to mention stupid because some little girl will learn to fly a plane to kill as many of those b4stards that killed her father and older brother as she can. Besides you know the full scale assault model uses zero targeting and kills many women and children (who must be innocent because of age and gender).

The other choice is find the strongest tribe (at this point I'm thinkin' Sunni but they've both been horrible at different time in history) and let them take over, give a 30 day time out to let people take cover, then get out.

This sort of idiotic meddling in the middle east by fools without any real understanding of it is why we are where we are today.
Name one single despot propped up by America that hasn't caused alot of trouble down the road....... Ho Chin Minh, General Noriega, Saddam Hussien, and yes the evil Taliban..... Do you see a pattern yet?

The thing is, we're trying to force a democracy on a people who live under a tribal system. The only time that's worked in history is when the invading country took over and wiped out the culture of the tribes. (think Ireland, Scotland vs. England - Rome vs. everyone else - Europeans vs Native Americans). Do we really want to try to westernize their speech, clothing, food, etc. etc. etc.? Does anyone think that would work?

Iran a country which has not invaded another country in 3 centuries had a democratically elected government...... which the US toppled to prevent them from nationalizing their oil fields.


They must be willing to stay in their homes and take a stand. Decide that anyone (even from their family) who conducts torture or murder is 'the bad guy' and turn them in.

Thin ice there, your perfect apple-pie troops are verified as committing torture. So is your CIA, atleast the FBI knew enough to walk away when they couldn't change the practice although they should have started a sh1t-storm by taking it to the media instead of objecting in silence. Physical evidence of torture at Guantanimo Bay and Abu Gharib has come to light after all.

As for your comments regarding Nona.... I haven't caught up fully on this thread yet but last I saw she side-stepped actually stating what exactly her role there was.
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 36
The true state of Iraqi security forces today
Posted: 6/27/2008 11:57:27 AM

It's quite plain that it serves somebodies self interest to stir the pot, to keep the killing and anarchy going. However the Iraqis are now deciding it's in their interests to stop the anarchy.


I'd just like to point out that there is no anarchy in Iraq. Anarchy being the absence of rulers.

Thank you for your support
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