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 dallastxman10101
Joined: 4/30/2008
Msg: 102
Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?Page 3 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
Well choices we make effect others. Seems to me from this little information there is two adults that made bad choices awhile back and now it’s time to feel bad and point fingers who’s the better parent. Everyone looks at people differently. You look at his father as an ex that you ether hate, can't stand are blame for things and your child will look at him as his father. So let the relationship that they have be whatever his father choices to have with his son. They will work it all out. Life is long (hopefully). Be the best mother you can be you know the one that answers his questions when he has them, let him live his life as it comes. The world is not fair. So you have to make good choices now. You have to make good choices now from here on out. Raze that boy the best you can. I see baseball, basketball, football, school plays, friends, swimming, martial-arts, track and field, music along with sadness, disappointments, unfairness, losses, letdowns, hart breaks, tuff times in his and everyone’s future.. It's called life. My advice to you and ever single parent, stop worrying about what others do and don’t do and be the best parent you can be…. I’m sure your young boy will grow to be an awesome MAN!
 horse732
Joined: 3/22/2007
Msg: 107
Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/21/2008 11:04:08 PM
I feel whatever the father decides it should be his choice, but of course the mother has a say in it... My father decided to leave when I was three and that doesn't really make him a good role model or a bad one for that fact... He felt he couldn't deal with the family and his interests were in another woman... So everyone is welcome to their own opinion and how they feel... So Missmichmich I believe do what you feel is right for your son... My brother grew up with a good male role model... He grew up fine... Mind you he is a little deviant, but he's not in jail... If the father is a jerk and has issues let him sort them out before he sorts them out on you or your son... Then you can decide or the court which ever has more authoritity I'm not too sure... But anyways it's your choice, but don't leave your son out, hear what he has to say too... Considering I did read something about he's not interested much in his father... That's ok don't force him, but try to encourage him a little though... I never really knew my father, but he may have a chance (considering the father changes his ways) to know his dad... Sorry for rambling on I just wanted to try and help you out if I could...
 borntoski683
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 113
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/25/2008 6:30:12 PM
If the father is a criminal or severely psychotic, then I think you need to keep your boy away from him. do not say bad things about him, just keep him away. its not any better for your son to grow up with the "knowledge" that his father is a loser. Its better to keep your son separated and completely in denial about it until he is old enough to understand better.

However, you must be honest, if the problem with the father has more to do with the fact that you just don't like him, maybe you two fought a lot...perhaps you don't agree with his values, etc.. Then the boy needs his father and you are wrong to separate them, wrong to say bad things or do anything that will jeopardize the possibility that the boy will be able to learn everything he possibly can about being a man from his own biological father.

I realize that if you have decided that you don't like the father's values you would rather raise your son a different way. But there are many things about father/son relationships which you do not understand that are related to how a boy becomes a man. I highly recommend the book "Iron John" by Robert Bly. Aside from the fact that you will stunt his maturity into manhood by seperating him from his father, the boy simply is not exclusively yours. If the courts have determined otherwise, that may be a different matter and see my first paragraph. Otherwise, you have no right to destroy that father/son relationship.

In any case, good luck, I wouldn't want to be in y our shoes to have to make that choice.
 borntoski683
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 115
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/26/2008 1:11:47 PM
yes, I have read that book and I suggest you do as well. Its deep stuff but I recommend it to every single mother of a boy I know and I recommended it to my sister too who is not single. Most boys in western society today are not getting ample male energy injected into their lives and the result is that we have millions of young men in their 20's and even 30's running around acting like adolescents. The ones raised by single mothers have it even worse.
 borntoski683
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 118
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/28/2008 8:39:14 AM
How do you define "bad example"? That's a very subjective term. Taking the biological parent away from a child is a horrendously bad thing to do unless there is ample justification for it to the point that this evil will outweigh the worser evil of that so called bad example. But define "bad example".
 musicman_70
Joined: 4/6/2008
Msg: 119
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/28/2008 9:23:43 AM
Why would a woman allow a CHILD to decide whether they want their dad in their life when he is not good for the child? I read posts from these woman saying that they allow their children decide on whether they have contact with their fathers. What does a young child know? A good mother will recognize a bad influence on a child and do everything possible keep this person from spoiling or ruining the childs life. And a leopard can't change its spots....they are camoflauge to hide its deep down ulterior motives. I know women with this mentally and they pushed alot of good men out of their lives because of this thinking...they wanted the kids' biological fathers in their lives, regardless how evil or bad they are. Well these kids are grown know and are emotionally and physcologically scarred for the rest of their lives. Do what is best for your children and if their fathers are not good for them,KEEP THEM AWAY! Remember you have to be 16 to drive a car but any idiot can create a child. Too bad there wasn't a law concerning that.
 musicman_70
Joined: 4/6/2008
Msg: 120
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/28/2008 9:43:02 AM
Where did you get your information about higher IQ's in single parent families? What article,study,research shows this. I would like to see this information myself because IT IS FALSE. Where did you get this information from, The Enquirer? Any professional in psycology would dispute you...totally ridiculous
 musicman_70
Joined: 4/6/2008
Msg: 121
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/28/2008 9:50:37 AM
A bad role model is better than none at all? I hope you don't have kids and if you do I feel sorry for them
 heartseekertrue
Joined: 6/24/2008
Msg: 125
Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/28/2008 9:12:02 PM
I tend to concur, that distinctly bad role model....may cause more problems than absent one. To all the men out here...always remember that by default YOU step into those shoes...in the childs eyes.
And moms, please be careful and allow sufficient time to ascertain your date is worthy to walk there..even briefly.
The respect and mores YOU model (or not)....may well be influential in the childrens eyes....
 borntoski683
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 126
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/28/2008 9:46:10 PM
right now the number of single mothers in america is sky rocketing. Its already at 40% and growing. I will submit to you that the reason is not generally because of truly bad fathers making up the vast majority of that number, but rather because of a dismissive culture that is finding ways to write off the father role to irrelevance. There are certainly cases where a bad mother or father should be removed from the lives of their children, but this should generally only be in fairly severe circumstances.

As I said from the start, you have to ask yourself very honestly just exactly how bad the father really is before you diminish the quality of life for your children. An awful lot of single mothers can not be truly objective about that decision because they are generally harboring some of their own feelings of resentment and bitterness towards the ex, which carries over into their decision making about whether the father should remain in the lives of their children. And the answer is YES, no matter how much you can't stand the guy, he absolutely should be.

Realize that the next step in the evolution of the government taking over our lives is for the governement to start deciding if and when both father and mother are "good enough" to be what they consider good role models according to their set of rules. When that happens, we will have kids raised by the state. We are halfway there now.
 borntoski683
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 128
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/29/2008 6:36:07 AM
Its not good that your ex is doing GBH, whatever that is...some kind of abuse I assume. I don't think that information alone is enough to say whether or not the father should be shut out. There is a lot more about the man that you know and we don't know, so we can't really advise you, you have to come to that decision on your own. But I will say, shit happens. If it was so blatantly obvious I don't think you would have to be asking us now what we think, you would absolutely cut him out no matter what anyone else tried to tell you. But the fact that you are wondering whether this is reason enough, to me says, it quite possible is NOT enough. Just something to consider...

If he acted out in anger a couple times, but generally is a decent run of the mill man most of the time, then no, that is not enough reason to shut him out of your kid's life. Its a perfectly good reason for you to leave him though.

On the other hand, if he is going around all the time professing openly that a woman should be beat down...then yes, by all means. Shut him out.
 borntoski683
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 130
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/29/2008 7:46:33 AM
Yep, well said Daisy.

Seems a bit narcissistic to place that issue at the top of the list of things for what a father can teach his son.

And there is something else, that needs to be emphasized again. A boy who is raised without his father around will not be fully psychologically healthy. The psychological process that helps a boy become a man, CANNOT be facilitated by the mother. It will not happen. A boy with only a mother around will end up an adolescent until he is 40. Just look around you at guys out there, this is happening like crazy lately, due to the feminization of our culture. There are much deeper things at play than role modeling. The psychological process that a boy goes through to become a man is one that requires initiation rituals, usually carried out consciously or subconsciously by a significant father figure or other family male elders. This is present in all civilizations in various forms, going back for thousands of years. Most of that stuff has been wiped out of our current culture within the past 50 years, which is why boys are not becoming men at 20. Not even by 30 in most cases. Maybe by 40 they get there on their own finally.

Adolescents do not TRULY love women, rather they worship women as a stand in replacement for their mother. When you see men in their 20's and 30's acting out, being players, etc...this is all adolescent behavior. See what good no male role model is doing? Just look around at the current crop of guys in the 20-35 age range...they have been raised in an extremely feminine world with a drastically reduced masculine energy input into their development....even the ones that do have a father around. The ones without a father, I really feel sorry for them. Notice how in inner cities there is a proliferation of gangs. There are many reasons for this, but one reason is that these adolescent boys are DESPERATE for some masculine energy and desperate to go through the initiation rituals I mentioned. So they try to create it on their own, incorrectly, that way. They have no fathers around. The inner city is where you find that situation the worst of all.

You better have a damn good reason for taking a father out of the life of a boy because while you may perhaps reduce some aspect of negative role modeling, you will also be psychologically stunting his development into a man.

You have the opportunity to teach values to your kid also and just because he sees his father acting out in shameful ways does not mean he will replicate all of the same things. Sometimes kids go 180 degrees exactly the opposite direction of their parents. But that doesn't mean the parent's involvement was not crucial to that child growing into a mature, thinking adult. Everyone makes mistakes in life, including both fathers and mothers, nobody is a perfect role model. But kids need their parents, we have millions of years of evolution that have tuned our psychological development to need it. Taking it away is a huge mistake unless the parent is truly a maniac or hardened criminal.
 borntoski683
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 132
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/29/2008 2:52:30 PM
Ok, the details you are describing to me says he should be shut out if you can do that. If for no other reason, your own safety is at risk.

But yea, I'm glad you can see the big picture. Your boy needs a male father figure. If not the biological dad, then someone else significant. Where is your own dad? He can possibly fill in. Or do you have any brothers or uncles? If so, move closer to them, get them more involved if you can.

I know some women here in the USA that think they can just have some boyfriends around or send the boy to become-a-man camp when he turns 15 or something...and none of that will be enough. There needs to be a significant male person who is around the boy from a very young age, all the way through teenage years and represents a respected authority figure(ie, like a father, grandfather, etc). Even then it may not ever completely replace a biological father because we are all somewhat obsessed about our where are genes come from, but if you get someone like that early enough, the boy can learn to think of him like a father and respect him that way.

In your case, I think its pretty tough to make a choice between no-dad-at-all and the guy you're talking about. He is obviously a major loser and dangerous to be in your life. No dad, might be a better option, but its also not a perfect solution. The best solution is for you to get busy and find someone better to spend the rest of your life with. And quit messing around with the kinds of guys that may become violent!
 borntoski683
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 138
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 7/3/2008 11:44:21 AM


damsel 73..... I do agree with you that is really annoying, but i think at the end of the day u have to put your resentment to the side for the sake of the child. My other 2 kids dad loves them, but can be a real arse, and i find myself really lying to them about him, sayin how wonderful he is, and how hes the cleverest man in the world (vomit), purely because i believe the more wonderful my son thinks his dad is, the more confidence he will have in himself as a man.

I remember idilising my mum till i was about twenty, thinkin she was the most perfect mother in the world, i then started realising that she wasnt!!!!! So i think in time the kids will judge for themselvves but hopefully when their adults and are already healthy well adjusted people, so will not be affected by it.

exactly!
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 147
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 7/12/2008 6:35:20 AM
Parenting should be learned,the family court system should be abolished
I am speaking from experience , my son's mother and i should not have even shook hands ,let alone bread..... this being said, we took a very different rout , we split when he was 2
and went through mediation, then we took parenting classes, i learned not to be a diseny dad
we had one set of rules, which she as custodial parent set, so if he was grounded from playing video games there, it was the same at my house, he has a great step father, grand perents, and i am a very good dad, i accept his mother as being a very good one, as does she as far as my fathering abilities go.
This being said, men have not changed, the times have but men still, consider there women and children property, i know this is a generalization but in this case, i believe a good one,Men play games because they think they have lost something...when in reality the only thing they lost was a bad relationship with the mom
 Henry L. Moon
Joined: 6/1/2008
Msg: 149
Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 7/13/2008 1:42:41 PM
kiddingmyself and lashandra777 I totally agree, this is just another man bashing thread. I looked at some of your profiles...and I am surprised to see that you are all so young to be having all these babies, the OP is only a few years older than my oldest daughter! I've said this before and I'll repeat it again...Did NOBODY have a father of their own that they loved and maybe even respected a little bit while growing up????? Does nobody understand what you do to make a baby??....Did everyone's birth control fail them???? As of now OP you are discussing your family, the father of your child.....All I can say is this..considering that this IS a dating site, it's really hard to get over that "man hating" thing that some of the women on this site seem to possess, when one is a man. I'm just sorry that so many of you seem to be so proud of it. It makes me wonder how does this make you all better moms for those little ones that need you so badly now??? In years to come they will be proud of you, please don't give in to hate and take THAT away from them too!
 Henry L. Moon
Joined: 6/1/2008
Msg: 160
Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 7/16/2008 4:58:40 PM
nooooo, I didn't say you are too young to have kids......I said you are soooo young to have as many as you do!....I'm surprised, not condemning...I was in college and then seeing the world in my 20's...my first child came along when I was 29, and I was terrified of her THEN, I was so unsure if I could be a good father...I got books, I took classes ANYTHING to get me ready for this huge, life-long responsibility....lol....and you have 3 or 4 now by 28....I'm just surprised is all.
 Henry L. Moon
Joined: 6/1/2008
Msg: 163
 bigshrek
Joined: 11/15/2007
Msg: 164
Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 7/17/2008 8:01:48 AM
FAR safer to have no role model than a bad one.

My father beat my mother when I was little...seeing that tends to make a kid either follow along that pattern or go totally against it. I'm lucky, I went against it. Fortunately he died when I was 9...resolving the abuse, but leaving me without much of a role model. My mother never remarried, even tho my sister & I tried to get her to date...she just couldn't trust men any more. So, my Grandfather became my role model...a former Marine from WW2, his rules were harsh, but simple. And on the whole I turned out far better than I believe I would have otherwise.

I don't know why people say that kids that only grow up with a mother get mysogynistic...I used the information I garnered from how women think & act to make my relationships work better... Granted I did hit a rather long Slutpuppy stage, but most guys do that anyway...I just refuse to marry anyone that believes in Divorce. (Well, for anything other than abuse)
 h2o_baby
Joined: 11/8/2007
Msg: 165
Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 7/17/2008 9:37:05 AM
OP- My son's father is not in his life either. His choice, not mine. He left before I realized I was pregnant and when I found out and confronted him about it, he wanted to know what I wanted him to do about it. I said - you have the right to be in his life and do the right thing - he didn't. After that day, I never heard from him again. I'm not going to try to force him to be in his son's life. He has to live with knowing he has a son and isn't a part of his life. I moved on. No, I don't have anyone in my life (hence POF) but I have a wonderful support system and my step-dad is a wonderful grandfather and a wonderful role model. If the father is not willing to be a role model - be it bad or good, we as mothers need to surround ourselves around positive influences so our son's and other children make good decisions. I was brought up in a good home and had a good education but we all make bad decisions - well not exactly bad decisions - as my son is the best thing in the world - but if I could do it over again, sure I would love to have someone to share in the parenting and make decisions with and be a good role model for my son. Maybe someday but I'm not going to let that bring me down nor am I going to try to fill the "void" with random guys.

So long story short - and to answer the question - no role model is better than a bad role model.
 Henry L. Moon
Joined: 6/1/2008
Msg: 168
Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 8/2/2008 9:41:54 AM
"Lets not make things sound worse, hey......lol.............thats 3 children NOT 4" being a parent is the finest experience one will ever have, you can make a difference and raise decent human beings. To a man dating, being a mother is a HUGE turn on! Good luck across the pond
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