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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > for the gun control people [CLOSED      Home login  
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 bigshrek
Joined: 11/15/2007
Msg: 76
for the gun control peoplePage 4 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)
For barrel venting may I suggest the www.gunandgame.com forums , those guys have more information on Remington's than I can shake a stick at.

I'm a Marlin nut so until last year's purchase by Remington of Marlin & their associated companies (H&R, J.C. Higgins, etc)...I had payed no attention to Remington products at all. :) Remington wanted to improve their rifles and bought Marlin to find out how Micro-groove barrels worked :D
 god_of_rock
Joined: 1/17/2009
Msg: 77
for the gun control people
Posted: 2/4/2009 10:08:06 AM
I'm guessing it's just easier for some people to place the blame on guns, than to admit that humans themselves are flawed and capable of murders of all types. Really, is a murder by bullet really any worse than a murder by knifeblade, poison, baseball bat, pillow held over the face ... etc etc etc?


uh-huh, 23-year-old Seung-Hui Cho, on April 16, 2007 at Virginia Tech killed 32 people and wounded many others, with 2 handguns..

seriously, do you think he could have done that with a knife, baseball bat,

or putting pillows over people's faces, etc.?

get real..

Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School in Colorado, killed 12 students and a teacher, as well as wounding 23 others..

you think they would have done that with knives, pillows, or baseball bats?

um, O-K,- suuuree, believe what you have to believe I guess
 bigshrek
Joined: 11/15/2007
Msg: 78
for the gun control people
Posted: 2/7/2009 2:42:01 PM
God of Rock - Green River killer didn't use a gun. He killed 37 that they can confirm...with a knife.

Ted Bundy liked knives too...13 that they know of. Many More suspected.

And everyone's worst nightmare...the Whitechapel Murders, even though committed over 100 years ago, the name Jack the Ripper still brings fear.

A sociopath is going to find a way to kill.

Notice also that the homicidal maniacs in movies...also use bladed weapons to cause fear instead of guns...Norman Bates, Jason Voorhies, & Freddy Kruger have a nice cottage industry going.

Bear in mind, that once you take guns away from law-abiding citizens who use them for personal protection...you GIVE criminals who are stronger, faster, and less likely to care about YOUR life FREE REIGN.

And most recently, a man travelling on a Greyhound Bus in Canada was attacked by a knife-wielding passenger...and was beheaded in full view of the other passengers. Had not the knife-wielder been so intent on beheading the one man, he could have easily killed several on that bus before they could escape.

Which do you prefer, a CHANCE to protect yourself and others...or no chance at all?

In the UK there was just a massive protest against the government because they took away their protection, now there are knife-wielding thugs pretty much running the cities...they don't have to kill with a knife, a simple cut or two is enough to make someone give over their wallet or purse. Armed Robbery in the UK is up over 400% in the last ten years. Is it considered any more humane to be robbed with a knife or a gun? Same chances of survival...just less chance of being heard if they slit your throat, instead of shooting you.

In Florida, due to CCW, the Castle Laws, and 10-20-Life manditory sentencing for criminal firearms offenses, our violent crime rate is dropping steadily.

In California, which has the most draconic anti-gun laws outside of the UK, their violent crime rate is RISING!! Prime Evidence that sensible laws against criminals WORK when anti-gun legislation DOES NOT!!
 RSwindol
Joined: 8/25/2005
Msg: 79
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History
for the gun control people
Posted: 2/7/2009 3:56:38 PM
I found this interesting. One post said:



But to say a gun is a useful tool that has a purpose beyond killing is a blatent lie.

The next poster rebutted with:


You got westerners who need guns for rattlesnakes, gila monsters, coyote, wolf, bear, and a few other nasty critters...you got yer southerners who need 'em for cottonmouths, rattlesnakes, black bear, etc...

Dude, unless you are using that gun on all those creatures for anyone else other than killing them, then I think you just proved the last guy's point. Well done.

Big Shrek, you are correct, you can kill a lot of people with knives. But you can kill them a lot faster with a gun. Also, there are a few things about the Ted Bundy and Green River Killer cases that was strikingly different from the school shootings. The fact that the school shootings were done in a crowded area and in both the Ted Bundy and Green River cases the victims were never attacked in public.

Can a mass murderer kill a bunch of people without a gun? Sure. But given the same amount of time, he can kill a hell of a lot more people with the help of guns. It also makes that killer much harder to stop. I can guarantee that if the two Columbine kids or the moron at Virginia Tech had tried their little stunt with knives, they would have been taken out after the first few stabbings.
 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 80
for the gun control people
Posted: 2/7/2009 4:05:10 PM
when you edit your post you have to redo the quote brackets...
 RSwindol
Joined: 8/25/2005
Msg: 81
view profile
History
for the gun control people
Posted: 2/7/2009 4:10:06 PM
^^^Thanks. You actually caught me in the middle of editing.
 Tribal_Superman
Joined: 11/28/2004
Msg: 82
for the gun control people
Posted: 2/8/2009 10:08:46 AM
Hmm just take a look at how the government confinscated the guns of LEGAL gun owners in new orleans and you will see on whos side they are on;).

Ken
 sd_matt
Joined: 7/9/2006
Msg: 83
for the gun control people
Posted: 3/8/2009 9:41:32 PM
yep Galaway girl

It's a balance.
 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 84
for the gun control people
Posted: 3/9/2009 6:42:57 AM
The Beauty of the Constitution is that Americans at any stage can change it. Nothing is writen in stone. If future Americans feel that they want to amend the Constiution on the issue of gun ownership, its is their prerogative. Where we are Today is only a slice of the Country's history...Change will happen-that is our Right.
 shmodzilla
Joined: 10/6/2008
Msg: 85
for the gun control people
Posted: 3/9/2009 8:49:07 AM
If the constitution was set to just change were ever whenever then there would not be much sense in having it. The part that gets me is that the anti gun crowd thinks just go in and swipe it off the slate but there is a hell of a lot of other things in there the government would rather clean off first.
 shmodzilla
Joined: 10/6/2008
Msg: 86
for the gun control people
Posted: 3/9/2009 3:35:25 PM
Because criminals that buy illegal, stolen or otherwise firearms would only buy the 500 dollar bullets avalible in stores. Ad that to the ignorant 5000 gun laws on the books for criminals to not bother with that only affect people who go by the laws.
 RSwindol
Joined: 8/25/2005
Msg: 87
view profile
History
for the gun control people
Posted: 3/11/2009 8:53:34 AM

Hmm just take a look at how the government confinscated the guns of LEGAL gun owners in new orleans and you will see on whos side they are on;).

The entire reason for this was because morons were shooting at passing rescue helicopters. I'm not sure that I agree that confiscation was either warranted or even helpful, but it does give credence to the idea that more gun control is needed. If New Orleans or even our country had established an effective gun control program before Katrina, we probably wouldn't have had to worry nearly as much about the rescue helicopters. But since there wasn't an effective plan in affect, are government had to respond with a knee jerk reaction that went violated the rights of innocent people.

The longer we try to do away with gun control, the closer we come to a gun ban. The gun owning community is in a way like a teenage kid. If you establish meaningful regulations designed for their safety and others and enforce those regulation, then the kid will be well rounded and will learn to live more harmoniously within his bounds. But if you make little attempt to regulated them and do not instill discipline, then you will need much more drastic measures once you feel it is necessary to guide them back to the right path.

The same is true for gun control. It is not designed to take away people's guns. Its intent is not to unnecessarily reduce freedoms of the people. It's designed so that things get "out of control" as it is now. Because when things get out of control, that's when marshal law kicks in.

So if you like your guns. You should be pro gun control. Because the longer we go without it, the more inevitable a gun ban becomes.
 bigshrek
Joined: 11/15/2007
Msg: 88
for the gun control people
Posted: 3/11/2009 11:14:12 AM
The cops were taking them from the people who WEREN'T shooting at the helo's...just trying to protect their homes. They were too afraid to go into the areas of New Orleans that WERE shooting at the helos.

That's the whole headache. The vast majority of gun owners pretty much prefer to have them for our protection and for hunting. There are already laws on the books to prevent the ill of mind from owning guns...but there is NO national nutcase registry at this time to help ATF to put the insane on a list.

Yes, there are occasional whackos who go bananas and shoot people, but since the liberals de-criminalized being insane, they can't just cart the nutcases off to the funny farm anymore.

A great example of this happened in Fort Walton, Florida recently. A man was Baker Acted THREE TIMES (Baker Act places a person in medical care for psychiactric evaluation) but each time, the guy WALKED OUT OF THE HOSPITAL because The Law requires that they not be held against their will...(put some teeth in the law next time, eh Congress?) and hospital personnel including security personnel cannot hinder them from leaving, only follow until they leave hospital property or they get charged with Kidnapping (another dumb bunny part of the Baker Act). The guy goes home, grabs his father's shotgun, barricades himself in his room, and when the cops get there, shoots it out with the cops, killing one, and they killed him. The whole thingcould have been avoided had they put a clause in the law where Security/hospital personnel could CONFINE the possibly insane...but God Forbid we hold anyone to be checked out...

If we had have kept the old laws keeping insane people locked up/under treatment, we wouldn't have so many untreated loons running about. It's not like they are going to seek out care on their own.

Until Obama passes a Universal Health Care, and makes sure it has a good set of rules for dealing with the insane...there will be loons running around unfettered. Once we get the insane folks treated/locked up to where they cannot harm other members of society, we WILL have problems.
 shmodzilla
Joined: 10/6/2008
Msg: 89
for the gun control people
Posted: 3/11/2009 12:36:42 PM
So then again i ask, what more laws should we put on the books that only work when you obey the law? Background checks,permits,registration. Have to do all 3 to LEGALLY owne a handgun in NY but since criminals do none, how does a 4th,5th,6th help? Notice how "gun control" legislation NEVER attacks or goes for the criminal use of firearms. If gun control people want to stop criminal use then start nailing people to the wall for crimnal intent and use,not legal ownership. Does anyone really believe that law abiding citizens want criminals to get guns? Gotta be crazy the reason we fight this garbage is because it does NOTHING to fight crime.
 RSwindol
Joined: 8/25/2005
Msg: 90
view profile
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for the gun control people
Posted: 3/15/2009 8:41:54 AM
The vast majority of gun owners pretty much prefer to have them for our protection and for hunting.

I would have to disagree with this statement tremendously. Perhaps if you said "The vast majority of LEGAL gun owners pretty much prefer to have them for our protection and for hunting." then I would say that you were probably more accurate. But still a bit off.

Let's look at other reasons people have guns outside of hunting and personal protection.
1. Collections...just to have them
2. Conducting illegal business of many sorts
3. Marksmanship...some people just like to shoot them and nothing else
4. Compensation for a low self esteem...to impress your friends

These are all reasons that many people have guns, and I would say that they make up a large percentage of gun owners.

I would also like to point out that just because a person is using the gun for "personal protection" doesn't make him or her innocent. A drug dealer can say that he only carries a gun for protection, but that doesn't mean that I am comfortable with him having a gun.


So then again i ask, what more laws should we put on the books that only work when you obey the law? Background checks,permits,registration. Have to do all 3 to LEGALLY owne a handgun in NY but since criminals do none, how does a 4th,5th,6th help?

Gun control isn't just about making new laws. It's also about enforcing the ones that are there. And I know plenty of self proclaimed "innocent people" who live in states that require guns to be registered who do not register them. And in my opinion, this makes you just as much as criminal as the next guy. These laws need to be enforced, but "anti gun control" people don't want to laws enforced.

That's exactly why I say, the more that organizations like the NRA prevent law enforcement from doing their jobs and encourage people to not register their guns by convincing them that some day the government will decide to take them away, the closer we move toward they gun ban. It's the paranoid people who are not registering their guns who make a gun ban more inevitable. They are only screwing themselves.
 shmodzilla
Joined: 10/6/2008
Msg: 91
for the gun control people
Posted: 3/15/2009 5:31:55 PM
If there is one event remote way that me taking my shotguns down to be registered would lower crime i would do it. How in any way,shape or form could it help? Paranoia has nothing to do with it. Is there any reason for cops to not be in your house right now looking through all of your stuff? Me neither but i still don't want them doing it.Privacy also is a problem. Not long ago somehow a newspaper got a hold of every CCW permit holder in a town and published every single name in the news paper. Where is our privacy in this? These people were all law abiding citizens and the paper makes them out to be gun toting cowboy criminals. To legally owne a firearm you must basically be a law abiding person. No felonies,no restraining orders and so on. So if one chooses to break the law,more laws are not going to stop them. The laws that need to be enforced are not lame "sensible" laws wich are sugar coated bs laws. The laws that need to be enforced are criminal activity. A criminal goes and robs a store with a illegal firearm BUT nobody gets hurt so he is back on the street in no time. Joe Blow never did anything wrong though is expected to pass 36 different background checks,registration, licenses but is still looked at like a criminal.
 wisguyingb
Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 92
for the gun control people
Posted: 3/15/2009 5:55:46 PM
If gun control helps stop crime then why is Mexico running wild with criminal organizations? I bet people down there would love to be able to lawfully carry a concealed weapon in order to protect themselves from the be-headings....But hey, that's just me.

If guns kill people then the fork and spoon are the responsible for making people fat........
 Carterdog11
Joined: 2/16/2009
Msg: 93
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History
for the gun control people
Posted: 3/17/2009 6:40:48 PM
Just the other day in Houston a teenagers was shot accidentaly at a party. No fight , no altercation, just careless handling and direspect of the gun by the owner. Guns are in no way regulated equally to the amount of damage they can cause. The secound amendment has been so perverted, and is far from it original intention, then its authors would ever imagine.
 bigshrek
Joined: 11/15/2007
Msg: 94
for the gun control people
Posted: 3/18/2009 11:43:50 AM
Right Now, gun & ammo manufacturer's are making more money than ever due to DEMAND from the PUBLIC.

Right Now, applications for Concealed Carry Permits are up over 1000% in states that allow them.

Right Now, even Walmart can't keep up with the demand.

Right Now, banks are folding because people are putting their money where their faith is...in GUNS & AMMO!

Right Now, 7 out of ten people in the USA legally own at least one gun.
 lyingcheat
Joined: 10/1/2008
Msg: 95
for the gun control people
Posted: 3/18/2009 2:56:30 PM
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Sure, it's true that guns don't kill people in the sense that unaccompanied guns don't become disgruntled and mow down co-workers, rob banks, or get depressed and kill their partners.

It's also true that people kill people using all sorts of implements and methods. Most of the implements they use though, if not all, were actually designed for and have, another purpose.
Likewise the methods, from poisoning with household chemicals to throwing someone off a bridge. No one would suggest banning household supplies or demolishing all the bridges.

A gun is only designed to do one thing however. To fire bullets.

-------o0O0o------- -------o0O0o------- -------o0O0o------- -------o0O0o------- -------o0O0o------- -------o0O0o-------

If guns don't kill people, but only people kill people. Why is it that many places in the world, in fact most of it, apart from the American Continent and adjacent territories, have much lower murder rates than than one finds in the Americas?
After all, the people in the rest of the World have access to bridges, household chemicals, knives, vehicles, bare hands etc etc yet they seem much more reluctant to use those implements, or methods, to kill people.
Mere coincidence perhaps?

Is it also coincidence that those countries in the world with the highest murder rates tend to have a tradition of gun ownership and vast numbers of guns floating about in the community.

Perhaps that isn't a coincidence at all?

Or maybe the coincidence is really that those areas of the world with easy access to guns, just happen to be populated by people with a lack of restraint and less respect for human life, so they'd be knocking each other off anyway, guns or no guns?

Ummmm.... It may be that all those coincidences are as improbable as they seem? And coincidence has nothing to do with it?
It just might be the guns.
 RSwindol
Joined: 8/25/2005
Msg: 96
view profile
History
for the gun control people
Posted: 3/19/2009 3:58:04 AM

And just the other day someone got in a motor vehicle, failed to respect the vehicle they where operating, handled it carelessly and:
A) Killed one or more people
B) Injured one or more people,
C) Caused property damage
D) All of the above

I've always loved this argument. It's so entertainingly absurd.

OK, so how many times a year do people intentionally kill their spouses with a car? I can bet not nearly as often as people kill their spouses with fire arms.

How many times a years are ex-felons arrested for having a car in their possession? Probably not as many times as they are arrested for having a firearm.

What percentage of cars on the road cannot be tracked or identified by some form of registration?
Probably a lot less than the number of firearms that have no registration.

How often are convenient stores robbed at "car point"?
I can bet far fewer times than they are robbed at gun point.

But on a more serious note. When thinking of the likelihood that someone will be something, whether it be a car, a firearm, a motorcycle, a horse, whatever...one much take into account how often they are in direct contact with that "something". Pretty much every person I know (including fanatic gun owners), spend much more time in direct contact with automobiles (their and others) on the road than they do with firearms. And by the way, having a pistol in your glove box while driving doesn't constitute as direct contact with the gun.
 RSwindol
Joined: 8/25/2005
Msg: 97
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History
for the gun control people
Posted: 3/20/2009 4:40:26 AM
Far more are stabbed to death. Why no call to ban or restrict knives, Hmmmmm!
If you would think for about 12 seconds on this, I think you would come up with a logical answer. But since obviously anti-gun control people aren't too keen on thinking for extended periods of time, I will give you a couple of answers.

First off, unlike guns, knives are used for many other reasons than to kill people. It is true that, like many other things in this world, they can be dangerous if used wrong, but they also have many constructive uses. Guns, on the other hand, do not have constructive uses. Their primary intent is to kill, maim, or at least frighten.

I would also like to point out that by taking knives away from people, this wouldn't prevent someone from stabbing another person. If you really think that someone can only be stabbed with a knife, then you may want to broaden your mind a bit. Anyone can make a stabbing object with very little effort. The same can't be said for a gun.


No sure where you were going with this.

Sorry about that. Somehow I skipped a word that threw the entire statement off. It should have read "When thinking of the likelihood that someone will be injured by something, whether it be a car, a firearm, a motorcycle, a horse, whatever...one much take into account how often they are in direct contact with that "something".

I hope that will clarify my point. But just in case it doesn't, I will try to clarify here.

If we think about how much time the average person spends actively driving their car, truck, semi, or other potentially deadly conveyance and compare it to how much time the average person spends actively shooting their firearms, I would have to guess that much more time is spend driving vehivles then shooting guns.

Now, at this point, I will have to guestimate, since I wouldn't even start to know where to find the information, as to how much more time is spent driving cars than shooting guns. But I will guess low in order to help out your argument. Let's say that the time a person spends driving a car is about ten times the amount of time that the average person spends shooting guns. If cars were just as deadly as guns, there would be 10 times as many people killed by cars than guns. But that's simply not the case.

In America, there are almost twice as many people killed by cars crashes than are killed by guns. But that is only because the amount of time spent driving cars versus shooting guns is so much greater (much more than double).

So simple math can show that cars, while have the potential to be just as deadly, aren't as high of a risk as guns.
 RSwindol
Joined: 8/25/2005
Msg: 98
view profile
History
for the gun control people
Posted: 3/21/2009 6:57:17 AM
Of course you are correct. My mention of restricting or banning knives was indeed tongue in cheek. However, you said it yourself, if the object (gun or knife) they intended to kill someone was taken away, they'd find something else to kill with.

I'm not saying that without guns, it is impossible to kill people. I am merely trying to point out the fact that a gun is a much more efficient killer than any other legal weapon in this country. If you take a knife away from someone in a bar, they can easily find an equal replacement (like a broken beer bottle) because a knife isn't a very effective weapon. But if you take a gun away from someone in a bar (or a college campus like Virginia Tech), while that person can still easily find a weapon of some sort, it will not be nearly as efficient as a gun. When is the last time someone walked into a school with a knife and killed 17 people and injured 9 more?


The sad bottom line here is that if a person wants to do harm to themselves they will find a way.

Your blindness to basic human psychology is staggering. The easier you make it for a suicidal person to kill themselves, the more likely they will kill themselves. That's elementary. It's like putting a chocolate cake in front of someone on a strict diet. You begin to test the person's will power. And unfortunately, a suicidal person has little will power to test. The last thing you would want to do is provided them with a sure fire, easy way out.

Look, as I have stated before in this same thread. I am not against the owning of firearms. I am against the irresponsible ownership of firearms, and I think that irresponsibility needs to be controlled.

Their is one thing that I hear both on this thread and outside of this thread that really has me tweaked. And that is the statement "Criminals don't follow gun control laws, so, why should I?" My answer is simply this. By following the gun control laws and recommendations, you can help insure that your gun doesn't some day end up in the hands of those criminals that you are so concerned about.
 shmodzilla
Joined: 10/6/2008
Msg: 99
for the gun control people
Posted: 3/21/2009 5:35:12 PM
I still do not believe the lack of a gun stops anything either. I don't think any maniac has ever been stopped without one. One way or another they get the job done. Psycos use bombs, maniacs throw their kids off bridges. Carzy husbands beat their wives to death and crazy wives seem to come up with crazier ways to kill,poison,ground glass.
 sd_matt
Joined: 7/9/2006
Msg: 100
for the gun control people
Posted: 3/21/2009 10:41:37 PM
For those who keep saying that guns are only for killing. If that were true then the United States, with that many guns in that many hands, would be extinct many times over. Actions can be observed and conclusion can be drawn. Actions to date show that the vast vast majority of guns used are for other than killing. So therefore they are not strictly for killing. Please stop saying this as repeating it will not convince anyone capable of observation.
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