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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > for the gun control people [CLOSED      Home login  
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 shmodzilla
Joined: 10/6/2008
Msg: 101
for the gun control peoplePage 5 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)
Nobody has yet to show me a single ounce of real proof registry does a single thing to curb crime.
 bigshrek
Joined: 11/15/2007
Msg: 102
for the gun control people
Posted: 4/15/2009 1:56:42 PM
DV, that was the most beautiful post I think I've ever seen on the subject!!

GREAT WORK!!

 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 103
for the gun control people
Posted: 4/20/2009 11:31:49 AM
I don't know why it's so hard for people to understand that criminals don't obey the law. Restricting firearms ownership thus takes weapons out of the hands of law-abiding citizens while doing absolutely nothing to decrease the armed criminal element.

It's not friggin' rocket science. I honestly don't get the logical disconnect some people have.
 Jumbo Whiffy
Joined: 3/12/2009
Msg: 104
for the gun control people
Posted: 5/17/2009 7:57:54 AM
Dance, where on earth did you dig up this unmitigated cr@p? The stats provided for Australia are outright lies. The gun laws that are spoken of were introduced in 97. The Australian Institute of Criminology reported in 1999 that -


There was a decrease of almost 30% in the number of homicides by firearms from 1997 to 1998.


also -


Although armed robberies increased by nearly 20%, the number of armed robberies involving a firearm decreased to a six-year low.


A 300% increase in gun homocides in Victoria? Please, whoever wrote this should have at least TRIED to make their claims believable. That's just nonsense.

The other arguments made carry about as much weight. That is to say, no weight at all.
With the all the military might of the U.S, you are still worried about invasion? Further to this you see gun control as a necessary step towards some evil dictatorship? You mean like Iraq under Saddam Hussein? Funny, because the Iraqi populace was armed to the teeth. Also, I don't see anyone advocating an unarmed police force, I don't think the criminal element would be at too much of an advantage at all.

The fact of the matter is that you are 50 times less likely to be shot in Britain, than you are in the U.S, and from what I can gather, they haven't started sending people to the gulags just yet.
 bigshrek
Joined: 11/15/2007
Msg: 105
for the gun control people
Posted: 5/19/2009 10:21:44 AM
Ya gotta avoid the druggy women...cause more trouble than they're worth.

B'sides, Earth Girls Are Easy (good movie, too)

In Texas, especially with all the headaches of the Drug Cartels...if you ain't armed, you ARE a Constant Victim.

That's like living in Pheonix, Arizona...the current Kidnapping capitol of the US, and 2nd in the World for it...they're finidng out that being a "Sanctuary City" ain't all that they thought it would be...crime is exploding in Pheonix now...our border states are becoming War Zones...all because we have not had the guts to put some TEETH in our borders...

California left the majority of weapons in the hands of the gangs, instead of the Private Populace. There are plenty of vids on U-Tube showing that gang members in Cali have ZERO problems getting Automatic weapons and firing them within City Limits.

Consequently, they've got the largest populace of illegal aliens in the US...and their budget shortfall is due to the massive spending programs which provide Daycare for Immigrant Workers, schooling for illegal immigrants, and all sorts of Liberal programs which caused them to overspend completely...now the State of California is asking for a Government Bailout...do they deserve it?? NO!!! They just need to quit spending tax dollars on supporting illegal immigrants, and the budget would balance.

Stupid & Draconic gun laws have ALWAYS equalled MORE CRIME. When will they ever learn??

 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 106
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History
for the gun control people
Posted: 5/20/2009 8:46:47 AM
I just spent two months in japan, what crime spree are you talking about? japan has one of the lowest crime rates in the world....on the other hand i live across the river from detroit, that is all i need to say about that
 shmodzilla
Joined: 10/6/2008
Msg: 107
for the gun control people
Posted: 5/20/2009 9:18:07 AM
Pretty sure it's culture not a chunk of steel responsible for that. Just like they have a suicide rate twice of ours without guns because it is in their culture. And ironicly guns are hardly any more legal in Detroit than Japan
 tjrogelio
Joined: 11/8/2005
Msg: 108
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History
for the gun control people
Posted: 10/12/2009 6:59:30 PM
Good for you and what you did...it was the right thing to do. But, I think that there are a few of us who would have done something similar, pro-gun or not. Being for gun control doesn't necessarily mean that you are a coward. I cannot sit by and watch when helpless people are being harmed, and one day, it'll probably get me killed. I got into a knife fight in Thailand (three people, two knives...guess who didn't have one?) protecting a woman I didn't even know, and I fought off two gang members in Mexico who were beating an elderly man I didn't know.

I am for gun control.
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 109
for the gun control people
Posted: 10/12/2009 7:50:04 PM

the year after australia banned guns, violent crime rose like 150% if i remember correctly.

Your empirical source?

Australia hasn't banned guns, they are just restricted to farmers, recreational shooters and law enforcement.

There just isn't the culture of guns over here as there is in the US.

The OP uses the example of a man using a truck and knife in Japan, I couldn't imagine the massacre if he had used firearms instead.
 FL CO
Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 110
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History
for the gun control people
Posted: 10/12/2009 8:07:48 PM

Australia hasn't banned guns, they are just restricted to farmers, recreational shooters and law enforcement.

There just isn't the culture of guns over here as there is in the US


With what you mentioned they are all but banned. So a select few can own a firearm. The process of buying and owning is also a lot stricter. You can't own half of the things there that you can here (in functional form). Heck you have to have a permit just to buy a BB gun or a paintball marker.

I think that you would be surprized by the gun culture of there. I visit several firearms forums, and almost every one has a member or members from Australia saying that they wish they could buy one, or own this or that, but because of the laws there they are unable to. It has nothing to do with passing a background check either
 FL CO
Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 111
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History
for the gun control people
Posted: 10/12/2009 9:10:03 PM
^^^ Thats called love. Its called risking your life to save someone you care about from having to suffer. It has nothing to do with using or not using a gun. Though I will say that he got lucky, and that the criminal would have been lucky if he was dealing with me and my daughter.
 predator45
Joined: 9/30/2009
Msg: 112
for the gun control people
Posted: 10/12/2009 11:31:43 PM
Australia was and still is, one of the safer countries in the world.

It is perfectly true that our violent crime rate did rise by a small, but significant percentage after the 1996 gun laws were enacted.

Unfortunately, media reports in the USA at the time gave a grotesquely inflated impression of this increase in criminality, - (150% is really "out there)," - and also led many people to wrongly believe that civilian gun ownership had been banned across the board.

It is false to assert that Australia does'nt have a VERY strongly entrenched tradition of private firearms ownership along with a well known tradition of competitive rifle shooting which until 1996 was actually fostered and encouraged by all save a very few of our country's State and Federal Governments both Liberal and Labor.

There are roughly one million registered firearms owners in this country and the shooting sports continue to grow and flourish.

All that the 1996 gun laws, a personal hobbyhorse of a rabidly anti-gun PM, succsseeded in doing was to waste a bit over $500,000,000 in public monies which could easily have been put to a productive public purpose.

Equally false is the notion that "only" the USA and other nations tolerant of civilian firearms ownership have some peculiar monopoly on mass shootings.

The dubious distinction of holding the world record for the most people gunned down in a single murder spree belongs to North Korea, - (a country which has very repressive firearm laws), - with a death toll of sixty plus victims.

The perpetrator was a serving police officer who used his issue weapons to do the deed.

Anybody who actually takes the time to research this stuff will be struck by the fact that a significant number of mass shooters have been former or even serving members of their country's military or law enforcement establishments who have used Government owned firearms and ammunition which were either issued to them or stolen by them.

When it come to killing a large number of people in a single hit is concerned, mass shooters still have some catching up to do before they out perform arsonists.

The single worst murder rampage perpetrated by a non-politically motivated individual in the United States was an arson attack in which the perp needed nothing more than about three bucks worth of petrol and a box of matches to kill more than eighty people.

If a person does'nt like guns that's fine. - Just don't own one.

If you want guns banned because you don't like them then be honest and admit that's why you want them banned.

But please don't tell me that you just want to prevent mass murders from happening because I don't believe you.
 Dudleyh45
Joined: 8/4/2008
Msg: 113
for the gun control people
Posted: 10/12/2009 11:32:49 PM
Maybe when we stop to help we should first ask if the victim is a liberal and if they are walk away. They want crimminals controling the streets let 'em get what's coming to them.
 msquared
Joined: 8/31/2004
Msg: 114
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for the gun control people
Posted: 10/13/2009 7:50:14 AM
Here's a question, then. Do you think every person 18 or older should be allowed to have a gun?
 Dudleyh45
Joined: 8/4/2008
Msg: 115
for the gun control people
Posted: 10/13/2009 8:52:29 AM

Here's a question, then. Do you think every person 18 or older should be allowed to have a gun?


Absolutely not, the people who want to maintain the ability to collect guns and hunt or sport shoot are not advocating every person of age be allowed guns. There are those who should never be allowed near them just as there are those who should never be allowed near children. Gun control in itself is not the problem the level of control that is being pushed for is. When the people who are pushing for the controls are those who mostly have never had anything to do with guns and don't understand them nor the pleasure one can get out of using them. They are pushing for absurd levels of control including a total ban in time. If i were to be pushing for a total ban on figure skates because they are too sharp and i don't figure skate it would amount to about the same thing. Control is necessary but not to an absurd degree.
 msquared
Joined: 8/31/2004
Msg: 116
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for the gun control people
Posted: 10/13/2009 10:03:42 AM

They are pushing for absurd levels of control including a total ban in time.


Cite?
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 117
for the gun control people
Posted: 10/13/2009 12:04:54 PM

Control is necessary but not to an absurd degree.

I agree with this statement. The thing I have difficulty with is the concept of somebody owning sub-machine guns and assault weapons for 'recreation'. Was there not a story of an 8-year-old dying when his father handed him an Uzi at a gun fair? The child pulled the trigger and lost control of the weapon. That is just madness.
 FL CO
Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 118
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for the gun control people
Posted: 10/13/2009 4:09:20 PM

I agree with this statement. The thing I have difficulty with is the concept of somebody owning sub-machine guns and assault weapons for 'recreation'. Was there not a story of an 8-year-old dying when his father handed him an Uzi at a gun fair? The child pulled the trigger and lost control of the weapon. That is just madness.


Whats wrong with owning one for recreation? Does someone really need a car that can go 0-60 in 4 seconds? Does someone really need to climb Everest or K2 to climb a mountain? The media portarys that there are "assault weapons" and "machine guns" on every corner. Reality is that these are nothing more than semi-auto clones of the real thing. Think about a kitcar. It may look like the real thing, but functionally its different, because the guts are the same. Actual submachine guns and "assault weapons" are highly regulated and are not cheap to buy. The story you mentioned was adults making a poor decsion. Based on what I know of the event I have a hard time seeing how it happened. Regardless, there was nothing wrong with him being able to discharge the gun had he been properly supervised, and in the case with a gun such as that, assisted as well.
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 119
for the gun control people
Posted: 10/13/2009 6:40:19 PM

Regardless, there was nothing wrong with him being able to discharge the gun had he been properly supervised, and in the case with a gun such as that, assisted as well.

This is an 8-old-kid remember? With an automatic weapon? And I'd bet the father of the child who died thought he was supervising him properly?


Whats wrong with owning one for recreation?

Because they spray bullets at a phenominal rate. This is way beyond 'the right to bear arms' your founding fathers laid down so long ago, this is 'the right to blow the hell out of something'. What do you shoot at when use supposedly use these things? targets? animals?
 Dudleyh45
Joined: 8/4/2008
Msg: 120
for the gun control people
Posted: 10/13/2009 6:42:11 PM

The thing I have difficulty with is the concept of somebody owning sub-machine guns and assault weapons for 'recreation'. Was there not a story of an 8-year-old dying when his father handed him an Uzi at a gun fair? The child pulled the trigger and lost control of the weapon. That is just madness.


You are absolutely correct. Any fully functional genuine submachine gun or assault rifle is not necessary for recreational purposes. Any that are found to be not made for the common market should be found and modified to be no more than semi-automatic at best. While it would be unique and exhilarating to go to a range and fire an automatic rifle or pistol a couple times per year it is not a necessity. I don't believe even police should have automatic weapons. I am not familiar with the story about the 8 year old but would question the source and reliability of it. Only a complete moron or evil deamon would have a loaded gun at a gun fair (don't believe any would allow it) and worse yet hand it to a child no matter how much training the child had. I belive you heard of or read the story but i would question the authenticity of it. If it's true the gun owner as well as the fair organizers should all lose their guns and ability to acquire them.
 FL CO
Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 121
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for the gun control people
Posted: 10/13/2009 7:01:25 PM

This is an 8-old-kid remember? With an automatic weapon? And I'd bet the father of the child who died thought he was supervising him properly?

Because they spray bullets at a phenominal rate. This is way beyond 'the right to bear arms' your founding fathers laid down so long ago, this is 'the right to blow the hell out of something'. What do you shoot at when use supposedly use these things? targets? animals?


Did you miss the part where I said "assisted as well"? Meaning hands on assistance.

Whats wrong with their rate of fire? Thats part of the enjoyment. Ok, thats most of it. You can shoot at various kinds of targets. Paper targets, or something more reactive, like old pumpkins or something.
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 122
for the gun control people
Posted: 10/13/2009 7:07:55 PM
Here is the article:

USA TODAY 27/10/2008

Boy, 8, dies after accidentally shooting self at gun show
WESTFIELD, Mass. (AP) — An 8-year-old boy died after accidentally shooting himself in the head while firing an Uzi submachine gun under adult supervision at a gun fair.

The boy lost control of the weapon while firing it Sunday at the Machine Gun Shoot and Firearms Expo at the Westfield Sportsman's Club, police Lt. Lawrence Vallierpratte said.

The boy, Christopher Bizilj of Ashford, Conn., was with a certified instructor and "was shooting the weapon down range when the force of the weapon made it travel up and back toward his head, where he suffered the injury," a police statement said.

"The weapon was loaded and ready to fire," police Lt. Hipolito Nunez said. "The 8-year-old victim had the Uzi and as he was firing the weapon, the front end of the weapon went up with the backfire and he ended up receiving a round in his head."

Christopher died at Baystate Medical Center.

Police said the boy's father, Charles Bizilj, attended the event with his son. The father is the medical director of emergency medicine at Johnson Memorial Hospital in Stafford Springs, Conn.

Francis Mitchell, a longtime member and trustee of the club, said he was told the boy's father was supporting his son from behind when the accident happened.

"My reaction is shock," said Mitchell, who lives down the street from the club. "In the last five years, there has never been a problem or a bad accident. I've been sick all night."

Although police called it a "self-inflicted accidental shooting," police and the Hampden district attorney's office were investigating, officials said.

"We are going to review all the circumstance regarding what happened, who was involved, what authorities they may or may not have had, who was supervising," District Attorney William Bennett said Monday.

It is legal for children to fire a weapon if they have permission from a parent or legal guardian and are supervised by a properly certified and licensed instructor, Nunez said.

Those conditions were met in this case, he said. He declined to release the supervisor's name.

The club said on its website that the event, run in conjunction with C.O.P Firearms and Training, is "all legal and fun." People are allowed to fire weapons at vehicles, pumpkins and other targets, it said.

----------------------------------------------------------

Bloody madness, especially considering the boy's father was the medical director of a hospital, who would have seen his fair share of gunshot wounds one would presume.
 FL CO
Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 123
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for the gun control people
Posted: 10/13/2009 7:08:14 PM

You are absolutely correct. Any fully functional genuine submachine gun or assault rifle is not necessary for recreational purposes. Any that are found to be not made for the common market should be found and modified to be no more than semi-automatic at best. While it would be unique and exhilarating to go to a range and fire an automatic rifle or pistol a couple times per year it is not a necessity. I don't believe even police should have automatic weapons


It may not be necessary, but it is a right. What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand. Its assinine to expect law enforcement to give up select fire guns. I guess you're not familiar with the North Hollywood shootout. The police were greatly outgunned and had to go to a nearby gunshop to get better guns to defend themselves with.
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 124
for the gun control people
Posted: 10/13/2009 7:10:57 PM

Did you miss the part where I said "assisted as well"? Meaning hands on assistance.

I didn't miss that part. If you read the subsequent USA Today article I posted you will see his idiot and criminally negligent father was 'assisting' him.
 FL CO
Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 125
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for the gun control people
Posted: 10/13/2009 7:13:46 PM
^^^ All it says was supporting him from behind. It doesn't go into how. I've seen other articles that said that the father was just standing behind him. Neither of us were there to say for sure what happened
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