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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > for the gun control people [CLOSED      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 hornyjj
Joined: 6/8/2009
Msg: 189
for the gun control peoplePage 8 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)

I make sure that my daughter cannot get ahold of my firearms, and when she's old enough I plan on letting her get some hands on safety training with them. Accidents happen because if carelessness or ignorance. If I do my part to prevent the carelessness, and train her to remover the ignorance, then she will be much safer if she ever encounters one that wasn't secured.


I am not saying that having guns is bad, i believe that they are a tool which can be used for legit and useful purposes. If you keep your firearms where your children cannot get them, then kudos to you as you are one of the safe people. I am not arguing against you as an individual, i am arguing against the people that are ignorant to real-world issues (ie: school shootings). You are smart to teach your children about gun safety, as they have been forced to live in a country where guns are an acceptable means of defence. Once again, and i dont know if you seen my last post, but I live in and enforce the law in Canada, where self-defence is not an excuse for shooting somebody. You may be charged with manslaughter instead of murder if you can prove that you were in duress. But as for defending your property with a gun, as you suggested was the purpose instead of calling the police, the eyes of the law see it as a life being worth more than your property, and your only course of action is to flee at that point.

Also, if you can prove that you wern't home when your guns were stolen, you wont have a problem getting off any charges. The police dont immediately assume that you did it because your gun that was registered in your name was found at the scene of the crime, in fact that leads the police to immediately consider that it was stolen, rather than you being the offender. Another good intention of gun registry, it puts names on guns, meaning that instead of finding your fingerprints on it and assuming it was you, they now know that you have a deterrence from being that neglectful.

Finally, i am quite proficient with the use of the 9mm pistol and the shotgun. We have range practice days twice per month that i do attend. Regardless of my proficiency, i practice shooting for the safety and concern of citizens, not only to stop the bad guy, but to ensure that my shot will not miss and injure an innocent spectator.
 FL CO
Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 190
view profile
History
for the gun control people
Posted: 11/5/2009 11:58:28 AM
^^^ Back pedaling a bit aren't we? Regardless, its sad that the law favors the criminals life and wellbeing over that of the law abiding citizen. I'm glad that I don't live in such a place. Also just because you have range days twice a month doesn't mean that you're a shot. Heck I've seen military guys that couldn't shoot well at all, and didn't even have a proper grip.
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 191
for the gun control people
Posted: 11/5/2009 12:02:46 PM

Funny we dont have any school shootings up here. Must be because were nice

Don't have them here either. The Canadian mindset is much like the Australian one in my experience.

When Martin Bryant murdered 35 people at Port Arthur in 1996, all sides of politics and almost the whole country rallied behind the Prime Minister to support gun control because they knew that most of those people would still be alive today if Bryant didn't have access to automatic weapons.

Bryan was given 35 life sentences plus 1035 years for other crimes related to the massacre. He has unsuccessfully attempted suicide 6 times and his life is a living hell as it should be.

When somebody goes to a mall and shoots it up with automatic weapons, or goes to a college, or goes to a school, the response in the US is to encourage people to arm themselves more.

Any US politician knows his goose is cooked the minute he mentions gun-control because the love of guns is so much a part of the American psyche.

Those of us on the outside looking in are only curious because guns are not part of our lives.
 hornyjj
Joined: 6/8/2009
Msg: 192
for the gun control people
Posted: 11/5/2009 1:15:47 PM
Not backpedaling, clarifying... I didn't want you to think that i was attacking your counrty's beliefs, as much as i disagree with them. Read the last 2 posts before this one, they are absolutely correct, arming yourself isn't the answer to an overarmed country, thats a whole you guys dug yourselves and cant get out of.

As for my proficiency, i can shoot a 3.5cm grouping from 50 yards... That is more than 2 times as accurate as what is required by law enforcement at half the distance.. And i'm not saying this because i'm trying to scare you (that would be an american thing to do), i am just defending the fact that you dont have to be trigger happy to be a good shot!
 hornyjj
Joined: 6/8/2009
Msg: 193
for the gun control people
Posted: 11/5/2009 4:03:09 PM
im assuming you didn't read my previous posts, stating how it would be impossible to memorize the criminal code, the police services act, the highway traffic act, the youth criminal justice act, etc etc etc etc... And FYI, i've never had to shoot anybody, nor have i experienced anybody shooting at me or anybody else. It took me 20 seconds to find the section in the CC, and now i know... PS, i've only been a cop for 2 years so i haven't had a chance to read the 800 page book and memorize it. If you think you can do the job better then BE MY F- U- C- K- I- N- G- GUEST!
 JWG86
Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 194
for the gun control people
Posted: 11/5/2009 4:03:28 PM

Interestingly, American Media is reporting that at the largest military base in America, Fort Hood, TX (North of Austin) there has been a mass shooting. 7 People so far have been killed. 12 injured.

So much for the theory that a well armed society is a polite society.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33678801/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/


Noone said an armed society was a PERFECT society, but that gunman wasn't stopped by some anti-gun "I will just mace them" type. He was stopped by a bullet.
 FL CO
Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 196
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History
for the gun control people
Posted: 11/5/2009 5:02:40 PM

Interestingly, American Media is reporting that at the largest military base in America, Fort Hood, TX (North of Austin) there has been a mass shooting. 7 People so far have been killed. 12 injured.

So much for the theory that a well armed society is a polite society


I knew this would come up when I saw it on the news. I say so much for only allowing the "professionals" to have firearms.
 FL CO
Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 197
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History
for the gun control people
Posted: 11/5/2009 5:06:57 PM

As for my proficiency, i can shoot a 3.5cm grouping from 50 yards... That is more than 2 times as accurate as what is required by law enforcement at half the distance.. And i'm not saying this because i'm trying to scare you (that would be an american thing to do), i am just defending the fact that you dont have to be trigger happy to be a good shot


I call BS on that one. I doubt your service pistol is even capable of shooting that grouping regardless of shooter, unless you have a custom, highend gun, which wouldn't be suitable for LE work.
 JWG86
Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 198
for the gun control people
Posted: 11/5/2009 5:18:31 PM
As for my proficiency, i can shoot a 3.5cm grouping from 50 yards... That is more than 2 times as accurate as what is required by law enforcement at half the distance.. And i'm not saying this because i'm trying to scare you (that would be an american thing to do), i am just defending the fact that you dont have to be trigger happy to be a good shot!

First of all, LOL at 3.5cm group at 50 yards. Even more LOL at 7cm at 25y being "the standard for LE" I know very few cops who can shoot 3-4" freehand groups at 25y. In fact, I know NONE. Hell, I only shoot 3-4" at 25y from the seated position using a service pistol. Then again, I am not the greatest of course. BTW, most cops/LE training academies do not even practice out to 25y. They aren't required to.
http://www.oregonfirearmsacademy.com/courses/HR218.htm
Then again, being as you use cm, I guess maybe in your country LE is held to a higher standard? Either way, you aren't shooting 1.75" or so groups at 50 yards with a service-grade weapon firing standing.



The names Marc Lapine or Ecole Polytechnic ring a bell? How many did he manage to kill without the use of a hand gun in Quebec? Seems most school shootings are done with rifles and shotguns.

Cho killed 30+ with handguns at Va Tech. The most "costly" school shooting in our nation's history.

Still the point remains that a gun is a tool and it's usefulness or detriment depends solely upon the user. It is inherently neither good, nor bad.
 JWG86
Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 200
for the gun control people
Posted: 11/5/2009 6:10:05 PM
That is absolutely correct and i would add they are a beautiful tool. Not only to look at but to use and maintain. The biggest problem here in canada and now becoming apparent in the states is the people who don't or won't own one. They seem to think because they don't want them around nobody else should enjoy their use. It is the same with everything not just guns and they work hard to remove our freedoms or rights.

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. Due to whatever issues they have, they wish to impose their will on others. Anti-gunners are a lot more aggressive than the gun-owners they go after I find. Us shooters aren't trying to force them to own a firearm, yet they feel the need to try to force us to give them up. Then when crime rates rise they will blame hammers, kitchen knives, etc. like the people across the pond are doing. They will want anti-shatter mugs because mugs can be broken and used as weapons, and...

Oh yes, whine about "slippery slope" falacy all you want, but I cite only things that have already occured elsewhere. I will be keeping my firearms, knives, and mugs, thanks. If you disagree, well, go pound sand, because quite frankly, I don't give a damn and sheep don't scare me. The watch-dogs that do their bidding are worrysome, but not the sheep.
 FL CO
Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 201
view profile
History
for the gun control people
Posted: 11/5/2009 8:36:02 PM

Then again, I am not the greatest of course. BTW, most cops/LE training academies do not even practice out to 25y. They aren't required to.


FL is one of the states that requires shooting from 25yds. 12rds, 2 targets, 30 seconds from the holster. His claim is complete BS however. Les Baer Ultimate Master Series 1911s with NM parts, 3 1/2lb trigger, and of course tighter fitting than a service pistol carry a 3" guarantee. This guy is claiming to shoot less than that with a service pistol while shooting twice a month. Its not even half way believe, could possibably be possible BS.
 hornyjj
Joined: 6/8/2009
Msg: 202
for the gun control people
Posted: 11/5/2009 9:32:09 PM

The Americans have the right to arms and i am glad they do.


That's why we provide you with mobility rights.. If you want to be part of the $hit storm down there your more than welcome to leave...
 hornyjj
Joined: 6/8/2009
Msg: 203
for the gun control people
Posted: 11/5/2009 9:33:06 PM
they were american.. professional or not they're all still trigger happy
 JWG86
Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 204
for the gun control people
Posted: 11/5/2009 9:45:56 PM
^and yet we still have magical thinkers who ascribe society's problems to an inanimate object. Well, our ancestors worshipped a big ball of flaming gas, so I guess this line of thinking is alive and well today as it was back then and there is nothing much the higher thinking members of society can do but accept it and try to keep the pebble-worshippers from destroying everyone else's freedom.
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 206
for the gun control people
Posted: 11/6/2009 12:28:45 AM

With that spawn of satan they elected president they will need that right and those arms.

Interesting much of the rest of the world held the exact-same view about the previous one.

Where are all the Americans on the forums leaping to your President's defence BTW?
 JWG86
Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 207
for the gun control people
Posted: 11/6/2009 8:30:51 AM

Interesting much of the rest of the world held the exact-same view about the previous one.

Where are all the Americans on the forums leaping to your President's defence BTW?


Both of the Presidents mentioned were accurately pegged imho. They were/are both power-hungry parasites weakening the country for personal gain.
 JWG86
Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 208
for the gun control people
Posted: 11/6/2009 1:45:08 PM

So its a bit like the nuclear bomb then eh? Its a tool, it might even be beautiful to some, but it can be a little bit unhealthy in the wrong hands.


and guess what, Labdien? If we were to dis-arm (nuclear), what would prevent a country that didn't care about the pretty green trees, from nuking us? What would we do? Land a few troops? Drop a few JDAM's? We can't even find one man in a cave, I don't think they care. Peace through superior firepower isn't just a popular saying. Some people/entities understand only one thing--force. Like it or not.
 bigshrek
Joined: 11/15/2007
Msg: 209
for the gun control people
Posted: 11/8/2009 11:24:25 PM
I'm going to point out something all the Non-military haven't realized.

NO WEAPONS are ALLOWED on Military Bases unless carried by LEO's OR when they are issued to personnel just prior to deployment or training functions.

This is why an Off-Duty cop shot him...because NOBODY ELSE WAS ALLOWED TO HAVE GUNS!!

Ever notice that EVERY mass shooting has happened in a supposed GUN-FREE ZONE??

All a Gun-Free Zone means is that a nutcase will have Easy Targets that Won't Shoot Back!!

They quit allowing NCO's & Officers to carry their duty sidearms years ago...maybe now they'll bring them back??

I bet if you armed every Chief Petty Officer & Sergeant in the military, we'ed never see another mass shooting of this caliber...they'd blast the SOB pretty quick.

On a Side Note: They oughta Draw & Quarter Mr. Hasan at the front gate with the News Media given good seats. Enough with the feel-good prison sentences, it's time to get MEDIEVAL!!

 FL CO
Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 210
view profile
History
for the gun control people
Posted: 11/9/2009 7:08:08 AM
^^^He's not lying. While "every" may be an exaggeration, a vast majority of them are. Its safe to say that they almost always are. I'll have to do some research, but I know someplaces changed their laws in favor of being able to carry after such shootings
 FL CO
Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 211
view profile
History
for the gun control people
Posted: 11/9/2009 7:35:10 AM
^^^Um, you did in the post before mine.
 FL CO
Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 212
view profile
History
for the gun control people
Posted: 11/9/2009 9:02:53 AM
I did a little researh on mass shooting, and the two main website that popped up only went back about 18 years. Here's a summerized list of all of the shootings from the two cites. Unforunately I didn't think to save the links. One was from Fox News and the other was from wsbtv.com which is another news organization. These were just used to get a list of the shootings. I then searched each one to see if it occured in a "gun free zone" or not. All but 1, possibly 2, were in gun free zones. One I couldn't find enough information on. I'm guessing state law allowed concealed carry, but don't know if company policy allowed it. Very doubtful though.

Nov 5, 09 Ft Hood
April 3, 09 Binghamton NY
*March 9, 09 Alabama (this happened in 2 rural communities) I don't know if the *companies involved had policies against firearms or not, regardless I'm not going to *count it since some of it occured where firearms are allowed.
Feb 14, 08 Northern Illinois University
Dec 5, 07 Westroads Mall Omaha, Neb
April 16, 07 VT
Feb 12, 07 Trolley Square Mall SLC, Ut
Oct 2, 06 West Nickel Mines Amish School in Pennsylvania
March 21, 05 Red Lake High School in Red Lake, Minnesota
March 12, 05 Brookfield Sheraton in Brookfield, Wisconsin
*July 29, 99 Atlanta, GA (this is the one I'm unsure if company policy made it a "gun *free zone" or not)
April 20, 99 Columbine
March 24, 98 Jonesboro, Arkansas, middle school
Oct 16, 91 Lubys in Killeen, Texas
Also August '66 University of Texas

All of those except those noted (*) happened in "gun free zones". The ones listed below did as well. (Note: some of the ones listed below were on the first list but not concidered to be "mass shooting".

From: http://tamilhelp.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/timeline-us-shooting-sprees-history-of-school-shootings/

August 1966: Charles Whitman is one of the most notorious names among America’s mass killers. In August 1966 he climbed a 27-storey tower at the University of Texas in Aust in and shot passersby on the campus below before being killed by police. Fifteen people were killed, including his mother and wife, whom he had shot the night before. An autopsy found he had been suffering from a brain tumour.

October 1997: A 16-year-old boy stabs his mother, then shoots dead two students at a school in Mississippi, injuring several others.

December 1997: A 14-year-old boy kills three students in Kentucky.

March 1998: At Westside Middle School in Jonesboro, Arkansas, two boys aged 13 and 11 set off the fire alarm and killed four students and a teacher as they left the school.

April 1998: A 14-year-old shoots dead a teacher and wounds two students in Pennsylvania.

May 1998: A 15-year-old shoots dead two students in a school cafeteria in Oregon.

June1998: Two adults are hurt in a shooting by a teenage student at a Virginia high school.

April 1999: Two heavily armed teenage students, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, rampage through their school in Littleton, Colorado, killing 12 students and a teacher, as well as wounding 24 others, before committing suicide

May 1999: A student injures six pupils in a shoot-out in Georgia.

November 1999:A 13-year-old girl is shot dead by a classmate in New Mexico.

February 2000: A six-year-old girl is shot dead by a classmate in Michigan.

March 2001: A pupil opens fire at a school in California, killing two students.

January 2002: A student who had been dismissed from the Appalachian School of Law in Grundy, Virginia, kills the dean, a professor and a student, and wounds three others.

April 2003: A teenager shoots dead the head-teacher at a Pennsylvania school, then kills himself.

May 2004: Four people are injured in a shooting at a school in Maryland.

March 2005: Jeffrey Weise, a 16-year-old high school student guns down five students, a teacher and a security guard at Red Lake High School in northern Minnesota before killing himself. He also killed his grandfather and his grandfather’s girlfriend elsewhere on the Chippewa Indian reservation.

November 2005: A student in Tennessee shoots dead an assistant principal and wounds two other administrators.

September 2006: Duane Morrison, a 53-year-old drifter, takes six female high school students hostage in Bailey, Colorado, after entering Platte Canyon High School, claiming to be carrying a bomb. He sexually assaulted them and then shot one, fatally, before killing himself when police arrived.

September 2006: Two days after the Bailey killing, a 15-year-old student kills his school’s principal in western Wisconsin after telling another student “you better run”.

October 2006: Charles Roberts, a 32-year-old milk truck driver takes hostages and eventually shoots 10 girls girls aged seven to 13, killing five, before shooting himself. Roberts had indicated to his wife over the phone that he had dreams about molesting children.

April 2007: A gunman kills at least 31 people in a dormitory and classroom at Virginia Tech university before being shot dead himself.

—-

April 2007: At least 22 people are killed as a gunman goes on the rampage at the campus of Virginia Tech

October 2006: A 32-year-old gunman goes on the rampage at an Amish school in Pennsylvania, shooting dead at least three girls before killing himself

September 2006: A gunman in Colorado shoots and fatally wounds a teenage schoolgirl, and then kills himself

September 2006: Two days later a teenager kills the headteacher of a school in Cazenovia, Wisconsin

November 2005: Student in Tennessee shoots dead an assistant principal and wounds two other administrators

March 2005: Schoolboy in Minnesota kills nine, and then shoots himself

May 2004: Four people are injured in a shooting at a school in Maryland

April 2003: Teenager shoots dead a head-teacher at a Pennsylvania school, and then kills himself

January 2002: A student who had been dismissed from the Appalachian School of Law in Grundy, Virginia, killed the dean, a professor and a student, and wounded three others.

March 2001: A pupil kills two students after opening fire at a school in California

February 2000: A classmate shoots dead a six-year-old girl in Michigan.

November 1999: A 13-year-old girl is murdered by a classmate in New Mexico, again via a shooting.

May 1999: Six are injured by a student in a shoot-out in Georgia.

April 1999: Two teenagers shoot dead 12 students and a teacher before killing themselves at Columbine School in Colorado. An award-winning documentary was later made about the killing.

June 1998: Two adults are hurt in shooting by teenage student at high school in Virginia

As you should see by now, "gun free zones" do nothing to prevent people from using firearms in a crime.
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 213
for the gun control people
Posted: 11/9/2009 12:25:47 PM
Wow. That's quite a list.

There has only been one incident of a school shooting in Australia... ever.

This happened at Monash University in Melbourne in 2002, when a mentally-disturbed overseas student arrived with several handguns and began shooting up a lecture. 2 students were killed. When he stopped to change weapons he was restrained by the injured lecurer and tackled to the ground by the lecturer and two students. All three received bravery awards.

When it was discovered the shooter had obtained the guns legally, what did the Victorian and Australian governments do? Changed the law and instituted a 'buyback' scheme to make it ever tougher to get handguns.

I fully understand the culture is different in the US, you're guarenteed your right to guns, but I would rather live where I live, where my kids can go to school and only have to worry about their grades.

In all of those instances in that big list, those guns had to come from somewhere, and, at least in the case of the Columbine killers, the guns belonged to their parents.
 FL CO
Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 214
view profile
History
for the gun control people
Posted: 11/9/2009 10:42:55 PM

Wow. That's quite a list.

There has only been one incident of a school shooting in Australia... ever.

This happened at Monash University in Melbourne in 2002, when a mentally-disturbed overseas student arrived with several handguns and began shooting up a lecture. 2 students were killed. When he stopped to change weapons he was restrained by the injured lecurer and tackled to the ground by the lecturer and two students. All three received bravery awards.

When it was discovered the shooter had obtained the guns legally, what did the Victorian and Australian governments do? Changed the law and instituted a 'buyback' scheme to make it ever tougher to get handguns.

I fully understand the culture is different in the US, you're guarenteed your right to guns, but I would rather live where I live, where my kids can go to school and only have to worry about their grades.

In all of those instances in that big list, those guns had to come from somewhere, and, at least in the case of the Columbine killers, the guns belonged to their parents.


Firearms aren't allowed in school zones in the US. I guess someone forgot to tell the criminals that. Oh wait, the school shooters where mostly kids, who were breaking the law just by having it in their possession, not to mention how the obtained the firearms or ammo, which you have to be over 18 to buy. There's also laws in place about proper firearm storage to keep them out of the hands of children. Now the guns didn't do any of this. People breaking the law did. So its obviously (you'd think so anyway) the persons fault and not that of an inanimate object.

As far as the shooting there that you mentioned, I applaud those that stepped in to do something. At least they were willing to act.
 JWG86
Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 215
for the gun control people
Posted: 11/9/2009 10:45:54 PM
All of you are missing the point. If murder were illegal, we wouldn't have tragedies like this. MORE LAWS ARE THE ANSWER!

...oh wait.
 bigshrek
Joined: 11/15/2007
Msg: 216
for the gun control people
Posted: 11/12/2009 12:16:15 AM
Precisely the problem.

Law-abiding citizens tend to abide by the laws.

Crooks could give a happy diddly-do about any law ever written.

Bring back some of the more medieval punishments...like the Iron Maiden....the Guilliotine (discontinued in 1979)...I bet we'ed have less crooks real fast...one way or the other. And only ONE appeal, better make it a Good one, because right after you are confirmed they're marching you straight to Punishment.

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