|sexless marriagePage 2 of 8 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)|
|Realizing the women would probably prefer to blame quality of relationship, emotional/pscyhological problems, I suggest that health could be suppressing a man's libido. It's not always "I'm OK (remains to be proven), but HE won't have sex with me". Maybe he's not OK, and his libido suffers. Ladies, don't always take it personally.|
There was a report in an UK newspaper online that I can't find now about a poll in UK that said men over 40 simply "can't be bothered" with sex. There's not a lot of bother involved, but with no or little libido, even a little bother can be sufficiently discouraging.
This week, a report of mysteriously low sperm counts in Missouri (but not low baby counts) over a wide range of men and geography. The report said sperm counts were even lower than the famously low sperm counts for New York City. The Danes reported low sperm counts a couple decades ago, declining steeply from when records were first kept. Low sperm counts are the men's fault? Are low sperm counts "associated with" low libido?
50%+ of adult men are overweight/obese, very probably out of shape, with atrophied muscles, inefficient lungs, perhaps pre-diabetic, early/advanced CVD in progress, metabolic syndrome. Overweight men with unknown CVD often have varying degrees ED, a strong predictor of CVD.
Chronic sleep deficit, borderline depression, anti-depressants reduce libido.
The US is dramatically over-medicated. Something like 51% of all US adults are on at least one prescription medicine, and that goes up with age. A lot of medications suppress/kill libido, esp anti-depressants, usage of which is rampant.
Chemicals from plastic food/water container that leach into the food are estrogen analogs. Excess estrogen in a man reduces testosterone, killing libido. Estrogen analogs at/near conception are suspected in the great recent increase in male hypospadias.
Does low testosterone matter? Older men with low circulating testosterone have 2.5 times greater risk of death within 10 years from all causes than men with testosterone in normal range. (Exercise solicits the production of testosterone for growth and maintenance of muscles.)
2/3 of all US adult women, 50% of all adult men, and even higher for over-45s, are overweight or obese. Could one's excess weight be a libido-killer for the other person? Nah, impossible.
I'll leave it to the women to catalog the libido killers for women.
The point is that libido is normally robust when we are young, child-producing, and health is strong and hormones flowing. It can stay robust for decades, but fragile libido is assaulted from all sides by bad lifestyle, bad diet, environmental chemicals, pharmaceuticals, disease. Perhaps his rocket fizzles because his launch platform is shot.
btw, one definition of sexless marriage is broader than no copulation, by including couples who copulate 10 or fewer times per year.
Posted: 6/20/2008 7:57:15 AM
|I haven't read all the replies but as far as I'm concerned if two people love each other there is no excuse for a lack of sex. |
The strangest excuse I've heard people utter is, "I'm not in the mood." Since when is being in the mood a requirement for doing things for our partner?
Cooking dinner, weeding the garden, cutting the lawn, grocery shopping, cleaning the house....when was the last time anyone heard their partner say, "Honey, I'm really in the mood to clean the bathroom!"
Compared to the many things we do for our partner few take less time and energy than sex and there are multiple ways of sexually satisfying ones partner regardless of most medical conditions.
To refuse to sexually satisfy ones partner is a height of selfishness and there is no reason for anyone to accept it.
Posted: 6/21/2008 5:03:54 PM
|here's the article about low testosterone "associated with" 2.5 greater risk for all-cause mortality within 10 years, and the study was not "older men" but age 20 - 79.|
Posted: 6/21/2008 6:29:54 PM
(Msg 65) I have to say.. I don't understand Dave1234.. comparing "chores" to having sex with a loving partner? ............... Where's the feeling.. the mutual love.. in "performing" sex out of a "sense of duty" as opposed to waiting until both are "in the mood" to make passionate love?
People's sex drive differs. Certainly having sex when two people are all fired up is fantastic but my point is one does not have to be in raging heat before engaging in sex.
If two people are in a relationship I assume they already love and care for each other. That being the case one would want to have sex just because they do love and care for each other.
The point I was getting at is what makes sex so repulsive just because one is not burning hot? The lying together and the carresses and the small talk are all part of the experience. Isn't it enjoyable without having to be "in the mood" before one starts?
(Msg 66) Cleaning the bathroom?
While I am doing that, I can be thinking of many other things... it's somewhat a mindless activity.
Having sex/making love?
Does not compare. Silly Dave1234.
What I find silly is the way people react to sex if they're not in the mood. What, exactly, makes it so terrible if they're with someone they love? What is the imposition? What makes it seem so unattractive? If they love the person they are with aren't they happy to spend a little time pleasing them? What could be easier?
Posted: 6/21/2008 9:50:54 PM
|It would depend on the reason...If the marriage was entered into for better or worse and the partner became sick or sexually disfunctional because of a disease, should the spouse walk out? If the marriage is built on other things as well as sex it will survive and the couple will last. This is no contest, it is reality.|
Posted: 6/22/2008 10:11:23 AM
|Actually, I think the taboo nature of sexuality in our society, remnants of Victorian ideals, is one of the most damaging characteristics of our society. |
I think you're right loveprof75
Posted: 6/29/2008 8:56:12 AM
A healthy sexlife is important to any relationship. I think this logic is backward. In my case and in the case of my brother and a few other male friends, the sex became less important when they realized that the women in their lives were less interested in the relationship as in the kids, the cars, the house, the social clawing, the constant struggles for status. In this way, it's the opposite: a healthy relationship is the foundation of a healthy sex life. Many men realize this and would rather avoid sex than to make it with a woman they believes no longer care for him.
Posted: 6/30/2008 7:15:43 AM
|In my experience, children often times contribute to the destruction of a sexual part of the relationship and eventually the relationship. I understand that children need attention from both parents but that should never be at the expense of your partner except in rare instances of emergencies. |
If you are unwilling to set aside time for your partner or regularly allow children to interrupt that time, your marriage and sex life will die. As your children get older, the time that is set aside for your partner should increase until your spouse again gets almost all of your time. As for who should be the most important in your life, your children or your spouse, your spouse should always be. When someone's profile says that "my children are the most important thing in my life" that means you will always play 2nd string to their children.
Posted: 6/30/2008 4:23:20 PM
|^^^^ Sure, but by the time this come around, someone has popped so many pills that some part of their body gets a form of erectile dysfunction, emotional dysfunction, hormone dysfunction, don't-bother-me/no me jodas disfunccions. I must admit that English is very difficult, foregive me.|
Posted: 6/30/2008 6:06:27 PM
|There can be multiple factors in a sexless marriage. First of all, some people actually make this choice. If it suits them it's nobody else's business. Some people have a very low libido and they like the companionship of their marriage more than sex. As for the marriage that is sexless not by choice, it can go both ways. I was in a marriage where I lost interest but it was because my partner quit caring about my needs. He succeeded in convincing me I had a problem but once I got away from him, I quit having any problems. I've been in two long-term relationships since then with partners who were affectionate and cared about my needs and I had the best sex of my life that lasted for years. Many men complain their women lose interest, but I hear from a lot of women that their men really don't try to please them. |
If your woman is shutting down completely, there's got to be a reason. This is a serious relationship problem. If you haven't tried to get at the root of the problem, then you are part of it. If you have, and she isn't willing to figure it out, you've got a choice to either stay in the marriage and accept the situation or get out.
Posted: 6/30/2008 7:54:38 PM
(Msg 92) Now we are dating and things are going smooth. But the sex is withheld because I'm looking for something more; I have spent countless hours, effort, and money into successful dates. Then, he slows down on the phone calls and maybe not even returning the call or the instant message. I am wondering, "is there someone else?" and notice him still on the dating websites. So, do I have sex with him now to solidify our relationship...or is it too late and maybe he is seeing someone else...or would I just be giving up the final link only to find that he wasn't interested in me long term afterall? (i.e. booty call)
I would say he'd still be on the dating sites because there had been no sex.
The emails and messages and phone calls and all the other "chase" activities do not normally take place once in a relationship. As long as the "chase" is going on it means there is no relationship because one person is still chasing the other and sex is still being withheld.
If sex is withheld too long the desire goes away. What happens is the passion is supressed until it dissipates. It's like anything else in life there comes a time when the effort is so great it overrides the joy of having something. If/when sex does occur it doesn't have the same impact.
My experiences have led me to believe that I don't want to have sex too early in the relationship because of the 99% possibility that I will just be another mark on the score card for him and he moves along. I want commitment AND great sex. Why can't there be both?
I've always found that strange. Assuming guys like sex why would a guy have sex and then leave? I know some do but the reason can not be because they just wanted sex otherwise they would keep returning.
As far as I'm aware most guys can't just decide to go and have sex unless it's with a prostitute. Should a guy meet a "decent" lady and he has sex it doesn't make any sense for him not to return unless there are other factors at work. In other words there are not a lot of desirable ladies offering sex so if a guy finds one he is more than likely to stick around. If he does leave it's not because all he wanted was sex. There is almost always another reason.
(Msg 100) I don't think that sexless marriages are caused by lack of communication. I'm sure the subject has been brought up by the person being ignored in various ways many many times and probably very emotionally and passionately at times depending on how much it's bothering the one being sexually ignored.
I completely agree. I doubt there is a person alive who does not know when their partner wants sex. I mean they would have to so clueless as to be dead! That's why I have difficulty understanding this idea of discussing it.
A couple can discuss the different ways to have sex but I can't see the necessity of discussing why they don't feel like it each time. And that brings up another thing. This idea of feeling like it or more commonly referred to as being " in the mood".
We're not talking about painting the garage or visiting relatives for the day. If a person knows their partner desires sex and they claim to love their partner then surely taking the time for sex should not be a big deal.
(Msg 101) Many men complain their women lose interest, but I hear from a lot of women that their men really don't try to please them.
That's another reason why it's so important to determine sexual compatibility. Some people are happy having sex with their partner. They don't require an incentive. The chemistry is present.
Others require to be turned on. Just being with their partner doesn't do it for them. That happens when people choose a partner for "friendship" reasons and believe sex will just happen naturally. More often than not it doesn't happen "naturally". It requires one partner to work at exciting the other.
After a while the partner doing all the "work" realizes the other person doesn't feel the same way. They get tired and frustrated. They feel they are not wanted because they are not wanted. They have to turn their partner on or, in other words, convince their partner to want them. As the saying goes, "That gets old real fast."
Posted: 7/2/2008 8:14:41 AM
|^^^^^ Perhaps these studies also want to go the extra mile and assess the affect it have on men? It's as if the dating situation were monolithic, in that only the female sex were impacted. To me these amoral sex sessions contribute to a greater overall sense of isolation and incapabilities for feeling anything deeply.|
I observe with some degree of amusement how free sex becomes and yet how puritannical our ideals remain. This very well may be the schizophrenia that is driving men and women crazy in relationships. At least worthy of another nameless, dataless study, right?
|Loveprof75 - it can go either way|
Posted: 7/2/2008 11:18:02 AM
|Hello, loveprof75 |
This can go both ways. I'm a 45 year old single mom, who divorced when my child was 5 months old because her dad preferred to play video games all night and all weekend. Then I finally remarried in 2004 and divorced again in 2006 due to the fact that my new husband preferred having sex by himself in the den watching computer porn instead of being upstairs with me. I'm a warm, loving, attractive, sexually open woman who works full time, earns a very good salary, keeps a clean neat home, does yard work, takes my own car to the shop, pays the bills, does the groceries, dogs to the vet, etc, etc, Is there something wrong with me. No. No. No. I don't know what happens to some people who just don't want to have sex with their partner. There is absolutely nothing wrong with you. It is the other person who has the issues. I myself prefer to be alone than lay in bed at night with someone who physically doesn't want me.
Posted: 8/26/2008 7:32:12 PM
|These posts provided interesting information and reading. |
I have known friends in sexless marriage. Sometimes the women lost interest, and sometimes the men. It was about 50/5o, though I hear women lose interest more than men. Sex and touching are important in a marriage ....it seems to smooth those rough edges.
|sexless marriage+ obesity|
Posted: 8/26/2008 7:41:24 PM
You are right on the money. Interesting that no one else has pointed this out. So true obesity and unhealthy eating behaviors probably contributes to a lack interest in sex. The extra weight leads to hypertention, back aches, diabeties, peripheral vascular disease, depression, insomnia, and more.
Posted: 8/26/2008 8:17:13 PM
mostly because I now know that the majority of women suck.
I thought guys *liked* women who sucked. Now you say they don't?
Posted: 8/27/2008 3:53:31 PM
|Many different issues can come into play when one partner shuts down the sexual relationship. Sometimes it doesn't mean they don't love you, but they can't get past the unplesant sex life. You say you do everything to please her. Have you always asked her what SHE likes and HOW she likes it? |
So many couples THINK they know what their partners like. They NEVER talk about sex. Gosh that would be crude... Well if you don't TALK about what each wants and needs how do you expect to ever get it?
Sometimes it has NOTHING to do with the spouse. They love the spouse with all their heart. Could be a medical issue. Has she been to a doctor. Have you seeked professional help together? From the long time frame doesn't sound like this is the issue in your case.
If one spouse won't TALK to the other OR have sex then you have to face the question HOW LONG can you survive in this relationship? Actually it's NOT a relationship. That takes TWO. It's a "roommate" situation.
Do you still love her? Sounds like you've done all the giving in a long marriage and she's done all the taking.
I was married 27 years. We started to get a divorce. Talked to the lawyers...etc. The following week he went into the hospital with peneumonia. 20 days later my workaholoic husband came home 100% disabled, oxygen 24/7 and needing a lung transplant. At this point in time there was NO way I could walk away and leave him alone. We were together for another 3 years until he passed away.
We were getting a divorce because he no longer cared about sex and wouldn't acknowlege there was a problem. After surviving this for a few years I decided it was time to give it up. Money and possessions are not worth being extremely unhappy. Life is to short to be miserable.
Don't do what I did. Stayed in a relationship because it was EASIER than making a change. Live your life. Find someone that will love you for YOU and appreciates all you do for them and make SURE it's recipracated BEFORE you make it a long term relationship.
I hope you find what you want and need. If you love her FIGHT for her. Beg her to make the changes YOU need. If she's NOT willing then find someone else.
Posted: 8/27/2008 6:58:06 PM
(Msg 104) It never ceases to amaze me how someone who is married on a dating site thinks they have all the answers and thinks they know exactly what makes people tick.
If their marriage is so great, why would they be here? Just a thought.
It's called sharing ideas that work. This is a multi-purpose site; relationships, friendships, casual dating, etc.
dave, your thoughts on if someone needs to be turned on to have sex seems very one-sided to me. I know men can get turned on pretty quick, but a lot of women need more than being beside a nakked body.
The point I was trying to make is it's not unusual for people to assume sexual compatibility will automatically occur. If anything, that feeling of lust or desire or "I want you" frequently diminishes so it's vitally important it's there in the beginning.
In a sense there's two kinds of sex in a relationship. One is where there is a sexual attraction, in and of itself. Assuming one doesn't make a major blunder the sexual feelings are just below the surface.
The other kind of sex is dependent upon gathering feelings from things unrelated to sex. Ones partner does something special and sexual feelings arise. The problem with that type of sex or sex requiring obtaining feelings from "special" things is that after a while two people become accomstomed to each other so the "unexpected" or "special" bcomes less unexpected and less special.
The perfect example of that is what the OP writes in msg #1,
Your husband, from the time you are married, supports your full-time career choice, takes care of domestic chores, cares for the children when they come along, remembers all the important dates and even does wonderful things for you for no reason at all. On top of all of this, he always puts your enjoyment first in the bedroom. Despite all of this, you shut down sexually almost from the beginning, seldom if ever initiate sexual liasons and never enjoying pleasuring your man.
As you mentioned many women require more than just a naked body. That's why some men seek sex early in a relationship so as to determine just how much more is required.
Posted: 8/27/2008 10:24:15 PM
|I actually have no problem with 'married Dave' being here....can't hurt to hear someone who is actually making it all work !|
Yes well there certainly is a lot of mystery about what makes sex in marriage work and trying to understand the nature of a spark. Many people in their younger years from our generation, had a lot more issues than todays kids....for gods sake my mother told me I was a prize in a cornflakes box ....so much for the birds and the bees. Thank goodness I was an avid reader and ended up being a hippy in my formative years .
Real open, honest communication and information is everything! Everyone comes to the table with their own packet of programming and you simply can't rely on 'things' going smoothly. But here's the rub... you can have wonderful, thigh trembling sex with a person and then find that they haven't got the common sense that god gave a turnip or meet the kindest most warm hearted man who hasn't a clue what hands, mouth and nookie are there for.....
To find both, together in the very same package wrapped up in a bow has led to the quest of a lifetime....and one of the reasons I think that most marriages fail...even the ones that don't end in divorce!!! We marry for the wrong reasons:
-whether for great sex in a rosie haze and then reality sets in
-or because you think he would be a good father and family man
-you loved her in a bathing suit with those lovely boobs
-because you went together so long everyone thought you should
-there weren't many other options because of location, demographics or looks
-you liked how she looked on your arm, because other guys were envious
-the time clock was ticking
-because you went to Vegas
-or they were just the ones who kept knocking at the damn door
The list can go on and on of course, even within just the forum posters here at pof there are probably hundreds of reasons why we married the wrong person! But that really is LIFE, we can't all be lucky and marry the guy who gives great sex, has a head on his shoulders, a twinkle in his eye and wants to commit to us for all the right reasons......or marry a girl just because she's pretty and 'seems' sexy without having a clue who she is inside her head.....it really is the exception that proves the rule and why so many here have all these lists and ideals.....still hoping that if they write it down...it will come. But as you've seen yourselves, that doesn't seem to be working either. A very few get lucky by accident...but most don't.
I guess what I'm trying to say is "Know who you are and what you really need" and chose someone who does too: talk, discuss, get the facts, be generous in understanding, stop being fearful without reason, accept that really.. no one is perfect, laugh at the absurdity of it all and some of your own programming, be willing to be fluid and flexible...seek the best in a person not the worst, don't nit pick, be loving and kind. There are no formulas, more.. if you are open, just a day to day learning of another human being.
We should all know how to do this by now.... there should be no more sexless marriages unless there is illness, stop trying to stuff people into boxes of your own design....the dance of life is in the differences and learning how to meld them together... should be the pleasure of a lifetime.
I'm done now.
Posted: 8/28/2008 1:41:27 AM
|REgarding: angel6218 -- stating that most women dont like sex.|
Thoughtful post. interesting. I suspect there are a lot of women who do not like sex but on a dating site they probably will not admit it. Most of my friends, from my generation, simply dont discuss this. One friend and my mother are the only 2 confirmed sex avoiders i know first hand. My mother also said "its something you put up with to stay married". ...hummm...very romantic....
Otherwise, I learn most of my info from reading.
Posted: 8/28/2008 4:00:08 AM
|I always thought that the women who say they don't like sex....simply haven't been awakened by the right person yet. Even if you are sexual it's a crap shoot whether someone is any good or not and if you don't know your own body and the places to hit, it's just a lot of fumbling around for nothing I suppose. I know that I had a girlfriend who was married 20 years always saying she didn't like sex, then some guy pestered her into having an affair......well, did that take the cork out of the bottle!!! Talk about a born again female at 46!|
Hello ....never too late to see the light!
Posted: 8/28/2008 4:24:16 AM
(Msg 124) I actually have no problem with 'married Dave' being here....can't hurt to hear someone who is actually making it all work.
Thanks, Rusty Traveler.
(Msg 125) Easy ....she doesnt like sex..Lots of woman don't......
Exactly. My EX was like that. About a year after she remarried she phoned one day to say there were problems with her new husband. Her exact words were, "You know me. I never liked sex."
For 13 years I had tried to figure out what was wrong.
Sex is an innate drive largely governed by hormones so it's virtually impossible to change a person's feelings towards it. They have a built in "schedule". That is why when I met my present partner and she asked what I expected from a relationship I immediately answered, "Sex!"
We both laughed and she said she didn't think that would be a problem. Of course, having recently met it wasn't a problem. My concern was later on down the road.
It's been 12 years and things are just fine in that department.
8 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)