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 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 91
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Solutions to illegal immigration?Page 3 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
From the OP ...
When I moved to Nashville TN 2 yrs ago I was surprised at how many illegal immigrants lived here.
How do you know for certain they are "illegal"? Did they introduce themselves to you that they are "illegal"? Did you ask them? Or ... do they appear to be from a foreign country and you are just assuming they are "illegal".

I noticed quite a bit of them in trades building homes and landscaping jobs.
Same questions as above ... how do you know for certain they are "illegal"?

I was also surprised that even my own bank (Bank of America) was allowing them to obtain bank cards without even a social security number.
How do you know that the bank is allowing them to obtain bank cards without even a social security number? Did the bank tell you that? Did you follow these people into the bank and observe that they were given the bank cards without even a socual security number?


My question is what are some proposed solutions to address the immigration issue in our country?
I think the first thing we all should do is not assume that just because someone is from a foreign country ... they are an "illegal" immigrant.
 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 92
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/10/2008 6:23:29 PM

I think the first thing we all should do is not assume that just because someone is from a foreign country ... they are an "illegal" immigrant.


^^^Amen^^^


I was also surprised that even my own bank (Bank of America) was allowing them to obtain bank cards without even a social security number.

It is possible for ANYone--legal/illegal--to open a bank account without a social security number.
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 93
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Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/10/2008 9:12:43 PM

USA spends so much money on idiotic Piece Corps programs, building hospitals in other countires etc etc (I am a live witness of that from my own "international" experiance) and not mentioning that 80% of San Francisco belongs to Japanese as well as 1% of the population in the USA (about 30,000 gals or dudes ) owns 35% of the national wealth. if 1 or 2 of these people decide to buy an island in Africa, again much more money goes away from here than probably from all poor Mexican guys combined and you picking on these poor hard working latinos and talking "we will suffer .... we will do this we will shoot them " instead of you yourself thinking what is wrong with your asssseeess. If you solve your own problem by seeing what is wrong with you then outside problems can be solved too.

So, let me see if I gather correctly: Because the US has the ability to build hospitals in other Countries, according to "international experiance", we should, thus, do more still, by ignoring the ill effects of illegal immigration? Right. OK. I got it. Thanks. Because we spend money helping outerh countries, by building a hospital for them, it's only fair that we do something to help A-L-L the illegals here. Well, as unfortunate as this may be, the problems with illegal immigration are much farther reaching and exponentially more expensive to deal with that the cost of even the most massive, most techonolgically advanced hospital in the world. That hospital cost would be only 1/2 of a drop in a 50 gallon drum, compared to the cost's illegal immigration poses to this Country.



No let's say someone is driving in that neighborhood over 60 miles per hour and potentially can hit someone, I bet he will be reported by neighbors, bcs the law that you can't drive that fast in neighborhood is a good one.


Unless they think it's an illegal driving, then they wouldn't report him because he might get deported, according to your analogy



Nail, meet Head.

It's like.."if we can just get people to stop thinking about the effects illegal immigrants are having in America....if we can disuade the argument, divert to some new subject, .................m-a-y-b-e they won't do anything about it."
Classic de-nial.
And I'm not talking about a river in Egypt, either.
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 94
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Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/10/2008 10:14:10 PM
Musicianfriend, msg 92?
Classic Post. Everything you said was on target.
It SHOULDN"T cost us anything.
We H-A-V-E become very apathetic in America.

WE S-H-O-U-L-D enforce the law....






And also...some states or cities or counties have made their own laws....
It's beginning to look like this issue is going to fall on the shoulders of each indivudual state, at least for now. There are a few cities here in GA that have acted. One Judge took his Court (the clerk, baliff, et al) down to a trailer park that was almost fully inhabited by ......oh let's just say "foreigners". They set up shop right there and then.....they went around checking ID's. IF the "foreigners" didn't have proper documentation, they were sent to immigration. They bussed them off to wherever they were destined to be, at 11:30 at night. . See, a lot of 'people' in America are living on borrowed time. They know they're here "illegally", but they do so anyway. So, when the chariots come round, everybody scrambles away, til the next time. But sooner or later, time catches up with you.



Hiring and renting to illegals should have a price to pay.

If the coming administration does nothing, the states will have to, because too much blood has already dripped from this turnip. WE simply cannot afford to continue in the same vein.



If we just start drying up the jobs....they will go home...

Promise?





These folks have lied, cheated, stole all their lives just to survive...they dont instantly change as soon as they cross a border.

AAAAA-MEN.


I just hope that when they start up construction again that they will hire their own countrymen instead...We as a people should be ready this time to stop the hiring of the illegals...Its just not fair to our own people...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~B-I-N-G-O~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There's already sources, such as EVerify, that cross check documentation. The problem is making it enforceable. That may come, eventually, but it may wind up being too little too late. Interestingly, a lot of people who speak out on illegal immigration are called bigots, "racially minded", etc. and ad nauseum. But it's really NOT....about race, or national origin. It's about legality and protection of Americans livelihoods. My best guy is Panamanian. He's legal, goes to school at night to learn and improve his ENGLISH<<< ....he owns a home, LEGALLY......and he's here for the long haul. He's not illegally squating with a dozen others for as long as he can get away with it, sending his money out of the Country, expecting to go back in a few years to live like a king. See, there's a huge difference, and I'd take a dozen like him if I could find them.



There have been many complaints about the quality of the building that was built by these illegals...They illegals said he knew how to do the job...but he lied...(Imagine that..he lied) and they have had nothing but problems with those homes..The victims are the homeowners who are now stuck with 3rd. rate work...Bad stucco...keeps cracking...many many other problems...At least this is what I hear from my construction connections..

Page up a few post's. I explained but ONE example of the third and fourth rate construction we're getting in America, from "foreigners". . In my trade, I've seen some of the most ludicrous, most preposterous illustrations of poor workmanship. A few decades ago, it was not only "honorable" to have a construction/blue collar career, it was admired and it paid well, and there were skill levels that had to be met in order to advance/promote. Someone who knew a skilled trade was very valuable. Today, kids are taught that the only way to succeed in life is through having a college degree. So, kids run off the college, parents pay for 3 years of partying, and the kid flunks out. ORRR........kid graduates, but hates his career, and the only reason he did it was to satisfy his parents insistance.
WE've come a long way at discouraging young people from taking careers in skilled trades, and it shows in the overwhelming absence in the trades. I rarely have wasp's calling me up for work; it's always Hose A or Hose B.


Is money always the most important thing? We all want to make money...but it isnt the bottom line..Its also about producing a quality product for your customer..We have really lost it here in America
IT's been a grab fest for quite some time. And it's a shame that we've allowed our standards to be reduced so heavily. I run across a handful of American tradesmen/women that really enjoy their work, they take the utmost pride in getting up before the crack of dawn and going out and making their mark on society. They love their jobs, they're among the best you'll ever find, but they're so few and far between. WE need to reevaluate what's "worthy" in America, AND ... we need to stop discouraging our young people form taking to blue collar careers b-e-c-a-u-s-e..... those jobs usually lead to more entrepreneurial occupations. A College degree is often .... not always.....but o-f-t-e-n... very limiting in scope.


Its ALL our duty to try to due something...We reaped what we sowed....we must be more involved in our government...they think no ones watching...so they just did whatever they wanted...Maybe things will be different after this terrible lesson we are all suffering thru....All this corruption has been going on for decades..It didnt just start...
........or the people will just think the government will fix it without them saying anything. If one person..... decides to rally together..... with others..... their voice represents t-h-o-u-s-a-n-d-s .... of annonymous voters, especially when you show up in your state's capital. You show up with a few dozen like-minded people, and start grabbing representatives as they pass by....and A-S-K .. them how they're planning on voting. Trust, me, Y-O-U-'-L-L GET THEIR ATTENTION QUICK. We can change this quicker than you think, but people aren't as organized on immigration issues as they are on others, ........ oh..... let's just say, for instance, "domestic violence". When women decided they'd had enough of getting beat up by their husbands and boyfriends, they went out en masse to the capitals, they grabbed their political representatives by the groins....and DEMANDED.... that something be done. Guess what. They got what they came for, and this immigration issue is no different.
If enough[<<keyword] people start voicing their opinions, it WILL change.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 95
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Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/11/2008 12:08:23 AM

How do you know for certain they are "illegal"? Did they introduce themselves to you that they are "illegal"? Did you ask them? Or ... do they appear to be from a foreign country and you are just assuming they are "illegal".


C'mon. Do ya think they are going to tell you if they are illegal? Unfortunetly, we are going to have to start assuming some things in this country if we wish it to remain "this country". Political correctness may have to take a back seat to little bit of common sense profiling to get the job done. Why should anyone here legally be offended to have to show a green card or visa? Why should we care if they are?

I think we all need to be assuming something. Some freakin' responsibility to the people who work and pay taxes in this country. And stop worrying that we might hurt someone's feelings who don't give a damn about ours!!!

 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 96
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/11/2008 6:41:57 AM

C'mon. Do ya think they are going to tell you if they are illegal? Unfortunetly, we are going to have to start assuming some things in this country if we wish it to remain "this country". Political correctness may have to take a back seat to little bit of common sense profiling to get the job done. Why should anyone here legally be offended to have to show a green card or visa? Why should we care if they are?

I think we all need to be assuming something. Some freakin' responsibility to the people who work and pay taxes in this country. And stop worrying that we might hurt someone's feelings who don't give a damn about ours!!!

'Assuming'...I can guess your response to what I'm going to say, but for the sake of sanity, here goes:
You're a dark-haired guy--you don't look 'American' to me--suppose you were stopped frequently because someone 'assumed' you are not in this country legally--how does that feel? ('I have nothing to hide! I'm here legally! I can prove it!')

Any idea how easy it is to get paperwork that 'proves' a person is here legally?
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 97
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Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/11/2008 12:33:13 PM


How do you know for certain they are "illegal"? Did they introduce themselves to you that they are "illegal"? Did you ask them? Or ... do they appear to be from a foreign country and you are just assuming they are "illegal".

C'mon. Do ya think they are going to tell you if they are illegal?


And exactly that is my point.

In message 1, the OP puts forth no real proof that the people he observed were really "illegal". Until that''s the case ... I'm going to assume the people are NOT "illegal".

How did he know for certain that they were getting credit cards? Was he following them around ... watching them? Did he go through their trash and/or watch them open their mail? Did he follow them to the bank and actually watch them get money accounts opened without showing a social security number?

By the way ... I just don't know how a bank can do that. Every transaction that's made in a bank is accompanied by a social security number or IRS ID number in some way. So the fact that the OP is saying such things ... already makes me suspicious that what was reported in the original post ... is not at all actual fact.

I think a solution ... as I have mentioned in other similar threads ... would be to make the employers more accountable for the people they hire.

I work in the medical field and all employees are quite strictly traced. I'll use myself as an example ... I'm a nurse and took my nursing exam on a computer. The results of that exam ... my scores and my nursing school grades ... are all on a central computer that can be accessed in order to verify that I not only went to nursing school but also took the national exam. Without that information ... I cannot get hired as a nurse in the United States. They now do that with Nurse Aides who have tested in a similar manner.

The point I'm trying to make is that it appears to me that so many Americans are so eager to believe that the "illegal" immigrants are out there cheating them out of a job or getting benefits they don't deserve and it's all mostly just hype. Actual "illegal" immigrants really do not get as much as people make out.

And by the way ... who cares if an "illegal" immigrant opens a bank account (if that's possible) here in the USA? That's certainly no skin of my nose ... eh? They do lowly jobs that many Americans are too arrogant to do. I openly admit that when I was in high school, I worked for a fast food chain ... it paid my way through college. I have no regrets and it was actually fun.

When I suggested to my own children that they get jobs in a fast food chain ... they were insulted ... they felt they were too good to do that. In the end though, one did work for a pizza chain and one worked for a well-known sandwich chain.

I understand where people are coming from when they quote all the jobless and note that the "illegal" immigrants are working. But just think first of all what kind of work the so-called "illegal" immigrants are doing and ask your friends ... who are jobless ... if they'd be willing to do that work. My bet is that they'd last a few days on the construction crews that the so-called "illegal" immigrants work on ... and then their butts would be back in front of the TV ... with their hands out for unemployment.

Face it ... we live in a lazy society here. The "illegal" immigrants are doing the grunt work and we know it. No one really wants to do that, but everyone will sit back and b1tch and complain if a so-called "illegal" immigrant is out there grubbing out a living.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 99
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Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/11/2008 1:19:40 PM

'Assuming'...I can guess your response to what I'm going to say, but for the sake of sanity, here goes:
You're a dark-haired guy--you don't look 'American' to me--suppose you were stopped frequently because someone 'assumed' you are not in this country legally--how does that feel? ('I have nothing to hide! I'm here legally! I can prove it!')

Any idea how easy it is to get paperwork that 'proves' a person is here legally?


Your last sentence is exactly the point i've tried to make several times.

Well, let's see if I give the assumed response to your first cluster of sentences. I guess I would just have to prove it wouldn't I? If I couldn't they'd just deport me, I guess. I wonder where I'd get deported to, since I couldn't prove I lived anywhere else either and I speak fluent English and no other language. I hope it would be somewhere warm and sunny where English is understood by most. But I do have an SSN that can be traced back to a living person, I have a legal birth certificate that is endoresed by a government agentcy. I have business licenses, and credit cars and many forms of I.D. that prove who I am, as well as dozens of people who can back up my claims of citizenship. Find me an illegal who did that much hard to stay here illegally and I'd say first they are idiots, because aquiring citizenship legally would be less work, and secondly, that, hey, they just might be legal.



In message 1, the OP puts forth no real proof that the people he observed were really "illegal". Until that''s the case ... I'm going to assume the people are NOT "illegal".

How did he know for certain that they were getting credit cards? Was he following them around ... watching them? Did he go through their trash and/or watch them open their mail? Did he follow them to the bank and actually watch them get money accounts opened without showing a social security number?

By the way ... I just don't know how a bank can do that. Every transaction that's made in a bank is accompanied by a social security number or IRS ID number in some way. So the fact that the OP is saying such things ... already makes me suspicious that what was reported in the original post ... is not at all actual fact.


The fact, there are hundreds of websites out there that site proof that illegals are getting bank accounts (some with government help, more illegally by identity theft), they are getting credit cards (same methods as bank accounts), they are a burden to our society. Banks don't always verify SSN's. I myself have opened accounts (and quickly closed them) where so little personal info was required, I felt unsafe using the finacial institution. I don't think anyone has to follow anyone around to know there is a problem. It's well documented if you know where to look.


Face it ... we live in a lazy society here. The "illegal" immigrants are doing the grunt work and we know it. No one really wants to do that, but everyone will sit back and b1tch and complain if a so-called "illegal" immigrant is out there grubbing out a living.


I think as more jobs disappear (as of today, according to the news, jobless claims are the highest they've been in a few decades) you may find people who are desperate to not be homeless and eat a meal or two a day might just be willing to do that "grunt" work, lazy or not.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 100
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Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/11/2008 3:21:02 PM

The fact, there are hundreds of websites out there that site proof that illegals are getting bank accounts (some with government help, more illegally by identity theft), they are getting credit cards ...

I don't think anyone has to follow anyone around to know there is a problem. It's well documented if you know where to look.
What is the big deal about a suspected "illegal" immigrant putting money in a bank or getting credit cards? I guess I don't understand why people are concerned that a possible "illegal" immigrant is opening a bank account or getting a credit card. How does that take a job away from an American or food out of someone's mouth? Why are people so concerned about that?

And we still have no proof that these people that the OP mentions in message 1 are truly "illegal" immigrants. As far as we know ... they are just people the OP "thinks" are immigrants.

By the way ... I know of plenty of "legal" immigrants who have furnished their homes with other people's trash. They pick up furniture from the curbside of our well-off citizens and use it.

How many people who b1tch about the "illegal" immigrants would be willing to do that?


... its no wonder so many of them end up on welfare because they can't find work).
I work with people who are on Welfare and believe me ... just because you cannot find work ... does not qualify you to go on Welfare. That's a myth.

If you can't find work and are able-bodied ... you might get lucky and can qualify for food stamps and perhaps some help with subsidized housing (which is usually only in horribly unsafe neighborhoods), but they will not allow you to just go on Welfare. Why do you think our American families of wounded soldiers are on the streets? They can't even get Welfare. As long as you are employable ... you are expected to get out there and look for a job ... you will be denied Welfare for any length of time. You might get it for 3 months and then it's over.

If you are not too sick to work ... you do not get Welfare. Why do you think so many people are living in their cars and going to work from their campers and tents? There may be some "illegal" immigrants getting Welfare ... but probably damn few.

You have to have a social security number and a permanent address to get Welfare. People who live in city parks and in their cars etc. can't qualify for Welfare for lack of an address and utility bill in their name even though they have a valid social security number. It's a myth that so many "illegal" immigrants are getting Welfare.

OT ...
I still believe that the solution lies with employers. If they would bother to check out their employees more closely ... it would be almost impossible for any "illegal" to get work here. But the employers are lazy and want cheap workers ... and that is the problem. They also want people who won't complain about poor working conditions.

"Illegal" workers don't complain about anything ... they show up, they do the work, they are happy to get paid in cash and they will do just about anything to get by. You can say what you want ... Americans, even the poorest of them ... still are either too lazy or feel they are too good to work like that.

I too, grew up very poor. My father and mother fixed everything until it just couldn't be fixed anymore ... before they finally would break down and buy something new. They never bought anything they didn't have the cash for. They were hard-working and they set a wonderful example for us.

I'm a nurse now, but only because I struggled to get where I am now. I too have done some very menial jobs in my life. I would probably do anything before I would allow myself or my family to become homeless ... but I can tell you that the Americans can be quite snobbish about things.

The time will come (no doubt soon) where they need to learn to humble themselves from all their fancy throw-away ideas. The sooner they do ... I believe the sooner you will see fewer "illegal" immigrants able to take advantage here.
 d0rene
Joined: 6/7/2008
Msg: 101
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Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/11/2008 5:41:34 PM
It used to be that if you would pay someone within the community to do a job, the person doing the job took the money you gave them and bought from someone else in the community. They bought groceries, went to the doctor, saved for a house or a car. If you pay an illegal migrant worker the money goes directly out of this country with as few living expenses paid as possible. That means Bob the grocer is standing at the door waiting for customers, Mark the doctor is treating people who won't be there when he goes to mail a bill and the people who would have paid him don't have the paycheck to be able to go to see him. AND nobody has the money for the house payment or a new car. Where is the money? It is in the newly affluent country next door being paid in taxes to the Mexican government and buying materials for better housing there. Maybe we'll get lucky and they'll build some charitable hospitals here.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 102
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Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/11/2008 6:29:20 PM

What is the big deal about a suspected "illegal" immigrant putting money in a bank or getting credit cards? I guess I don't understand why people are concerned that a possible "illegal" immigrant is opening a bank account or getting a credit card. How does that take a job away from an American or food out of someone's mouth? Why are people so concerned about that?


Really, the banks are no big concern to me personally, other than the fact that many illegals are opening them with ill-gotten information and identify theft. You were the one who said you doubted they were opening bank accounts, there is just ample evidence to refute your doubt.

The credit card issue is another story. They get CC's either by the aforementioned indentity theft or by using false tax identification numbers, run the cards to the max, toss them in the trash and go get another. Many you've never seen it, but I'
ve seen plenty of them driving around in my former neighborhood, a lower middle class, cheap rent area, where they live 15 to a duplex, but drive around in brand new Escalades and other huge SUV's. Now either they are illegally obtaining credit, or those crappy jobs they supposedly work are paying a hell of lot more than you think they are.


And we still have no proof that these people that the OP mentions in message 1 are truly "illegal" immigrants. As far as we know ... they are just people the OP "thinks" are immigrants.


So the OP may or may not be profiling/stereotyping, it's probably going to have to be done if we are ever going to solve the problem. It's a sad but true fact.


By the way ... I know of plenty of "legal" immigrants who have furnished their homes with other people's trash. They pick up furniture from the curbside of our well-off citizens and use it.


By the way, I know of plenty of legal American citizens who have furnished their homes with other people's trash. They pick up furniture from the curbside of our well-off citizens and use it. What does that have to do with anything other than the fact some people are less well-off than others? Maybe some LEGAL American citizens or
LEGAL immigrants could really use all that "trash" that illegals that shouldn't be here keep snatching out from under them.



How many people who b1tch about the "illegal" immigrants would be willing to do that?


Me. When things were tough after my divorce I was damn happy to find a decent discarded piece of furniture or given something no one no longer needed since my lovely ex-wife took all of ours and left me with nothing. When things got better for me, and I got new stuff I passed my older stuff that was still usuable (most, because I really learned to take care of what I had) to those people I knew that were in my previous situation. When the illegals in my old neighborhood move, many times they have to gut the homes or condemn them. For days there are piles of completely trashed household items sitting at the curb. The fact is, many (not all, but some) illegals just flat out have no respect for this country. There are (last time I was over there a couple weeks ago to visit friends) 17 gutted and/or condemned houses within a quarter mile of my previous house. I moved because of the late night parties, the live pig slaughtering in their yards that drew bugs we'd never seen in this area before they moved in and took it over (we found it was illegal to keep pigs within city limits but perfectly okay to bring in and kill them with bats and machetes), a major increase in hit and run accidents (lots of serious drinkers among them), drugs, la cucuracha music until all hours of the night, and police who couldn't or wouldn't do a damn thing about any of it.

One of my close friend's duaghter who lived next door to a house filled with about 25 of them was repeatedly sexually harrassed, had her dogs poisoned, windows broken, and both her & her husbands car's were repeatedly bashed into. They had no insurance, they had different people living there week to week, when one would get in any trouble they'd suddenly disappear of the face of the earth...........I could fill pages and pages with facts.....but I won't.

This BS needs to be stopped and nothing will sway my opinion on that. No arguement you can throw down will convince me otherwise.


The time will come (no doubt soon) where they need to learn to humble themselves from all their fancy throw-away ideas. The sooner they do ... I believe the sooner you will see fewer "illegal" immigrants able to take advantage here.


And the question will remain unanswered as to how much of it was caused by them in the first place. Thing is, then it won't matter, what's done is done. I think the real question is when are people going to start opening their eyes to reality before the sh1t hits the fan, instead of when the fan is flinging it all over?
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 104
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Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/11/2008 7:51:57 PM

If you pay an illegal migrant worker the money goes directly out of this country with as few living expenses paid as possible.
Good point. Only consider just how much that "migrant worker" is actually sending home. Food and housing here costs money too.

How much money is a "migrant worker" taking home? That is some really big bucks there. Yes ... that guy is really living the life of Riley ... eh? He has soooooo much to send home that someone in Mexico is also living the life of Riley back there.

We have all these people in here complaining about how these people live ... many in one house ... and saving tons of "high-paid" wages. I've seen it all before ... in Germany. The Turks ... legally imported to do the dirt work that the arrogant Germans would never lower themselves to do ... living several families to one house ... pooling their resources and yes sending money back home.

I wouldn't want to live like that. I've done the menial work that the "over-paid" migrant workers do. It's no picnic.

Whether or not they are driving the expensive vehicles ... I highly doubt it. The vehicles cost money and are quickly repossessed if payments are not made. They are also huge gas-guzzlers ... that costs mega bucks as well. That means less money to send back to Mexico ... right? Nah ... you're not seeing the "illegal" workers driving the expensive SUV's.

Everything you describe in your post ... the way they live the loud noisy music, the expensive SUV's ... all a part of the culture here where I live. The BA-BOOM, baggie pants, rapper cult that lives and thrives everywhere. They are not "illegal" migrant workers from Mexico. They are living breathing Americans who have grown up having everything handed to them on a silver platter and suddenly Mom and Dad can no longer do that for them.

They band together, pool their resources and take up residence in a house. They do nothing to maintain the house, party and play, do drugs, drink and basically annoy the crap out of the neighbors. And yes when one or more get arrested and go to jail ... they find others to take their place ... share the bills and roof over their head until the place becomes unlivable and then they just abandon it and find another house to do the same to.

Down here they are just spoiled "good ole boys" (and girls) that Mom and Dad can no longer afford to keep at home. The gated community I live in is surrounded by such situations. So much that I have put my house up for sale and hope to get out of here ASAP. I can no longer take it. But I see them ... they are not "illegal" immigrants.

OT ...
I will continue to say it ... if the employers who give the "illegal" immigrants work would stop ... there would be fewer "illegal" people here.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 105
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Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/11/2008 8:05:39 PM
Excellent link Redwood. You think maybe since it's on MSNBC it might actually be viewed as fact instead of some racist right wing conspiracy to get those "poor humble folks who deserve to be here" out of the country?

I had to nab a few tasty morsels from Redwood's link. It's a really good article and
should be read by anyone who thinks that this illegal immigration problem goes no deeper than just a bunch of people who want jobs coming here illegally.


Linda Trevino, who lives in a Chicago suburb, applied for a job last year at a local Target department store, and was denied. The reason? She already worked there -- or rather, her Social Security number already worked there.
Follow-up investigation revealed the same Social Security number had been used to obtain work at 37 other employers, mostly by illegal immigrants trying to satisfy government requirements to get a job.



And while several government agencies and private corporations sometimes know whose Social Security numbers are being ripped off, they won't notify the victims. That is, until they come after the victims for back taxes or unpaid loans owed by the imposter.


Does it answer how they are getting the new cars and other stuff a little better?


Immigration opponents say it's another reason to shut the borders tight; immigrant rights groups point out that identity theft is an inevitable outcome of unfair labor laws that push foreign visitors deeper into the shadows.


Let's find out who these rights groups are, and give illegals their jobs and SSN's and see how they like it!! Identity theft is a crime, plain and simple, legal citizens are jailed for it, immigrants just slither deeper into those supposed shadows because no one knows how to find them!


‘People need to wake up to this problem. They are destroying people’s credit, Social Security benefits, and everything else.’
- Richard Hamp
assistant attorney general for state of Utah


My hero! *gush gush* and I'm not in the least bit gay (not that there's anything wrong with it). Hamp for prez 2012!!!!


"The government is forcing people to share identities because they want to provide cheap labor to corporate America," Melody Millet said.
An undocumented immigrant worker managed to use Steve Millet's Social Security number for more than 10 years before the incident was discovered.

" The way it sits now, our lives were ruined. We will never have again a normal financial life."


I knew MSNBC would use a statement like that to get a jab in on our present government in this fiasco! And notice they still have to use that politically correct undocumented immigrant worker? THEY ARE ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!!!!!!!!!!And they are draining our country of resources as well as ruining people's lives!!

But still, I wholeheartedly agree with everything she says. And all because of someone who shouldn't have been here in the first place! Is it going to take this happening to the better part of the country before something is done about it?
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 106
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Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/11/2008 8:20:13 PM
Cotter, here in Dayton, I can tell you for a fact, they are illegals. They are not groups of teenagers, they young and old, living in one house. They are obtaining huge lines of credit, and they are driving nice cars, paying the rent without problems, gas can be bought on those same credit cards, and still sending huge amounts of money back to Meh-he-co. Look at the links provided in earlier posts. Millions are being sent back, and I could care less if it's one guy sending it or 14 million sending it.

They brag about it. They think we are stupid, they talk about money drugs and women they've had like none of us might know a little of their language. They know nothing is going to happen. One of my clerks walked back to my office, she is in college and took spanish for several years, she asked if she could hang for a few minutes until the guys out there stopped talking about the girl they all gang-raped the night before. They come into my place of business all the time with wallets lined with dough. They get those houses, pile 25 people into it and pay 20 bucks a month each for rent.

Keep your head in the sand. Maybe in Florida the hispanic population is different. Maybe in Columbus all you see is Somilians. Come to my neck of the woods and I'll show you the ravaged houses with shiny new SUVs parked out front. You can hang where I work and watch them pull out wallets lined with hundred dollar bills and credit cards, buy a .59 pack of crackers, and laugh about being here illegally and how all that money has to go to their "people". You can talk with the police who come in the store while they are standing there and do nothing about. I will ask them why and you can hear them say it first hand ---"I'm not wasting my time, nobody does anything about it." I'll let you meet my clerk I mentioned above. I don't make sh!t up.

Maybe then you'll see why I'm frustrated.

And if those employers yank jobs away from them, some will leave. Except the criminal element who have now seen how easy it is to get over in this country and will stay and continue to wreak havoc upon it. And those are the very ones who need deported the quickest.
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 107
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Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/11/2008 10:55:21 PM
We have all these people in here complaining about how these people live ... many in one house ... and saving tons of "high-paid" wages.

Not always.
There are those who commune 10 to a house or apartment, but there are also many, many families, with children. Now, they may, and often do, have 3 generations all in one house, but they're not as indigent as it might appear. I happen to live in an area that they're fairly prominent, (like many places, this cities been overrun) and the vast majority of the "foreigners" near here DO drive more expensive vehicles than I do, and mines less than 7 yrs old. But we should not kid ourselves. Whether they're 10 to a house, making $10 hr, or they're a family unit with duel incomes, the fact remains, they're in "most" cases, illegal.

AS by some deep distinct, WE MUST ..... see that, whatever level they live on, their numbers are inescapably large (around 20-30 million). We must "witness"......... somewhere in the neighborhood of 4000 walking across our border (or through tunnels) "illegally". ...D-A-I-L-Y........(they left their passports at home, apparently) . We already have figures that determine what cost there is to Americans; education, medical/fire/police, welfare, et al. We already have hospital closings due to the overwhelming numbers. Cities across the Nation are on the brink of, or already in, bankruptcy. California has two major sanctuary cities, San Fran and LA, some of the highest concentrations of illegals anywhere. And isn't it ironic that California is asking for major bailout/bankruptcy monies from the government. SO, it's pretty simple connecting the dots. I don't need to get clubbed over the head to get it. Their cost to Americans, via governmental support, is crushing US.

IF the 2 of the 3 US auto manufacturers go under, we're looking at over 1.3 million people going on unemployment, namely, because the vast majority of lesser paying jobs will already be taken through illegal workers. It's a ghost town if you're looking for a job, and we're about to add over a million more people to the victims list. Meanwhile, people .s-t-i-l-l-. bemoan how we're all a bunch of arrogant snooty people who wouldn't do their jobs.


Whether or not they are driving the expensive vehicles ... I highly doubt it. The vehicles cost money and are quickly repossessed if payments are not made.

I dont' know about there, but as I said, here, they are. In one driveway I can count $100K among 4-5 different vehicles, I kid you not.


They are also huge gas-guzzlers ... that costs mega bucks as well. That means less money to send back to Mexico ... right? Nah ... you're not seeing the "illegal" workers driving the expensive SUV's.

Gas guzzlers are the "style". IOW's, "you livin` in high cotton if you got one of those SUV's ridin~ sum dubs. " It's actually quite arrogant, really, and has been said, they're right proud of their illegal enterprises, as well as how handily they make themselves marketable.




VVVVVVVV
The point is still being missed, apparently.

Also, Ready4some etc, is talking that they are buying nicer cars etc etc. Let me tell you one thing for sure, it is probably a sign of a showoff and low class when people spend all their money on expensive cars instead of having long term goals. I have that in my own community in SoCal. In many cities in Mexico they will starve to death but buy expensive cloths, or like here , four of them live in one bedroom apartment but drive a brand new Mercedes, it's just childish, nothing else. Also, if they can afford and like that, then why do you feel bad about it? It's their money they can spend the way they want.

The money they're spending is being acquired illegally.
Would one have me to believe that there isn't some "legal" resident, s-o-m-e-w-h-e-r-e..... who wouldn't want that persons job? Pfft.
Let's not kid ourselves here.
With people losing their jobs on all sides of the spectrum, there will be many who will be wanting work, - w-h-a-t-e-v-e-r-.... work they can find..... and for many, being an auto mechanic isn't all too much more glamorous than a painting job..... so I dont' buy that people wouldn't want their jobs..... should the laws become enforced on immigration and working in the US.
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 109
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Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/12/2008 9:42:22 AM
Real quick......





I own my own business. So, say if I want to fumigate someone's house, and you are telling it is not OK to do that since that person doesn't have immigration papers, then are you going to pay me for the money I am losing? Let's say I will make $1,000 on that job, but your group doesn't let me do it, OK then guys, I won't do it as long as you want to pay YOURSELF for the service I am ready to provide. If you want me to be engaged in immigration affairs, I am sorry but I am not only not competent in that but also have no interest in doing it whatsoever.

This is the delusional aspect that is so far reaching, it's become commonplace.
If.... E-V-E-R-Y..... employer was required to use eVerify and show legal status for ...A-L-L... of their employees, legal residents or natural born citizens would have far greater abilities to survive a catastrophic financial time, such as the one we're in now. So, if what the poster above is stating, is that he/she would not do the job because he's losing money? B-I-N-G-O.......You're categorically illustrating the very person we're trying to extradite. If this person is here in America, legal or otherwise, and they're using "illegal" foreigners, at cut rate salaries, and making money, at the expense of other companies who demand hiring "legal" employees, THAT COMPANY, ENTITY, OR INDIVIDUAL.... is the one who needs to be shown the exit, to be fined for hiring illegals, and to be fined or imprisoned, or both, for using illegal helpers/employees, rather than bona-fide Americans, whether they be natural born or legal residents. Even for a legal resident from some other Country, they're attempting to stay here and work, and even their livelihoods are being challenged because people like the poster in question are hiring "illegal", cheap labor, thus usurping those here legally who are seeking the same jobs. Trying to backdoor the system of checks and balances in this Country is the crux of our most dire issues.




then are you going to pay me for the money I am losing?

No ones losing a dime that would "nornally" be gained through a "legal" process. THIS POSTER IS admitting (hypothetically, of course haha) to hiring people without documentation, thus implanting their own definition of the legal premise this Country works under. If the gist of the comments are that this person wouldn't do the job, if he can't use illegal labor, and if he/she refuses to hire documented workers, fine by me; I think a LOT of other companies/contractors would say "good riddens". Hire legal, documented people or you won't get the work. It's that simple, and it's that principle that is being so abused in this Country today.

AND, quite frankly, during these challenging economic times, it's those "illegals" being hired, by these same ilks of people , who are "surviving" these tough times much better than someone who's "legal".
Someone who must show income, rather than take cash payments under the table, is much harder pressed to find work than an illegal willing to work for much less, but without documentation.
And the only people who make that opportunity possible for the illegal person is someone willing (and admitting) to hiring illegals for the sake of monetary gain. It's preposterous, it's arrogant, it's selfish greed, and it's killing the opportunities for legal residents and natural born citizens across the Country. There's no argument that the "illegal" employees are doing a better job, it's simply a matter of making m-o-r-e money because they're hiring someone who's willing to work for much less, yet do so without the gov't knowing. THIS is the ground zero of the illegal immigration issue, and it's core to so much of the financial crisis we're witnessing today.

So, thanks for bringing that to light.

With that, I'll pass.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 111
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Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/12/2008 12:32:19 PM

make it so that illegal aliens cannot work here illegally and can't get welfare here, then most of them will leave the country.


Well, if it's being done everywhere, possibly. But what's happening right now is the few places that choose to ENFORCE the LAW are just doing nothing more than shipping to places were they don't enforce the law. Like my area. So it isn't going to help until the majority of the USA enforces the laws.

Amnesty is the wrong solution at the wrong time. As I've said before if everything was hunky dory peachy keen with the economy, jobs weren't being lost left right and sideways, then possibly amnesty, but under the conditions we are in right now. No way. I wouldn't be surprised to see a civil war if it were to happen. And I'd be in the front lines. People need to wake and see what is happening here.

You are going to have to deport some, if for nothing more than to make a point. When deprotation starts in abundance, many of the rest will soon get the idea.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 113
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Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/12/2008 5:18:14 PM

Any other problems you would like me to solve today ?


Yes, get everyone on the side of amnesty to agree to your solution to the problem.
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 117
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Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/12/2008 9:26:04 PM

America let's first solve its own problem then solve the others.

To begin, America's numero uno problemo IS illegal immigration.
Thanks for sharing.

Let's bring an example. do you think people in general will report if they see a poor Mexican guy painting someone else's house? No. Yes, legally he should be deported, but bcs the law is not good they don't like reporting it.
AS has been stated here before, Americans have become apathetic about illegals being here, at least in some part. So, while your point is duly noted, in case you missed the memo, times are drastically taking on new landscape in America, economically speaking, of course.



it is very economical to keep these motiviated dudes, allow them to have some sort of legal status for only to work and pay taxes and fees for that so that they don't get paid cash. May be even make a regualation and clearly define the fields where they can employed. Like it is completely legal to employ a worker whom you prove against Immigration office that due to their knowledge of some languages, and them being indispensible in some area you can't find a substitution amond USA citizens or permanent residents.

....and....
k
now for sure that not only me but many other similar companies will benefit tremendously if hamble, hard working Mexican guys who don't have work authorization may be allowed to work legally temporarily or other terms

Av lot of other similar companies would benefit......like you.....if 'humble' hard working mexican guys would be allowed to stay and work here without documentation.

legal residents or natural born citizens would have far greater abilities to survive a catastrophic financial time

==============================
Cheap undocumented labor creates competition and for those who are losing their jobs and are legal in this country it is another obstacle. But, not the biggest obstacle.

Cheap undocumented labor creates deep chasms in our infrastructure . Let's not kid ourselves again. There's competition..... among like-skilled people, and then there's illegal immigration....don't confuse the two.

///////Again, one thing is EMPLOYING those who DO NOT HAVE WORK AUTHORIZATION//////////////
///////////Another thing is SELLING SERVICES OR GOODS to those who don't have a work authorization. ///////////////

I do find it laughable to suggest theres some form of differentiation between hiring illegals.....or being legal, and contracting work under legal status....but putting illegal workers in place to do the work. It seems there's an immeasureable inability to understand......WE ALREADY KNOW HOW ILLEGALS GAIN WORK......
please....I'm laughing so hard my side is hurting. You can't possibly think the casual reader doesn't already understand how illegal workers find work. It's because someone (drumming fingers on keyboard)................S-O-M-E-O-N-E........ who might have legal status.... is giving illegals the work they've contracted. And I beg to differ that theres any discernable difference between working illegally as an individual, or paying illegals to do the work.
...but thanks for sharing. Keep coming back.

prostitution (like you Mane can's say you are selling your asssss , it's illegal
Easy big boy...... just cuz you dig that kinda thing.....don't push the idea on me.....

And plz stop your nonsense comments about me as if I am employing illegals
Everything I've copy/pasted here in this post certainly i-n-d-i-c-a-t-e-s......it certainly lends itself.......to the idea..... that s-o-m-e-o-n-e.... is just itching to have illegals provided sanctuary and the ability to work here without d-o-c-u-m-e-n-t-a-t-i-o-n. So, if s-o-m-e-o-n-e ...doesn't like the i-n-s-i-n-u-a-t-i-o-n-s... perhaps they ought to try removing themselves from the other side of the fence. IOW's, it may not be stated.....in black and white.....but.....it sure s-o-u-n-d-s.... like that's the idea. In other words, if someones tired of being called a horses aZZ, maybe they ought to stop wearing that saddle.~~~~~~~~ IF 'people' would stop whining how we should let illegals work here without documentation, maybe they'd stop giving others the impression they're the ones hiring illegals. There's really only two sides of the fence here... so man up and accept the fact.

Friendleebear.....
Not me. I concentrate on solutions for the problems.. It's a win-win situation.
+ Dig a moat the length of the Mexican border.
+ Send the dirt to New Orleans to raise the level of the levies.
+ Put the Florida alligators in the moat along the Mexican border.
Any other problems you would like me to solve today ?

What a classic solution. That is too fvckin funny, dood!!!!!!!!
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 119
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Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/12/2008 11:27:22 PM
it's like you are saying someone AKA Sorot wants those who work without documents

^^^^^^^^^
YA think?
brililililliant observation, Captain Obvious

Like I said, if someones tired of being called a horse, it's time to get rid of the saddle.
Just bcs it's not written.....does not mean it's not implied, at the deepest level.

Geez, I need a nap.
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 121
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History
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/13/2008 7:46:46 AM

Yes there is an inability to understand Mane from your side due the same Tequila which is playing demons with you all the time that ------ one thing is providing a job to someone, another thing is selling a product. It's different ok?
if the "illegal" is coming with 2,000,000 and opens a manufacturing plant and PROVIDES jobs as opposed to when he goes and OCCUPIES a job.

^^^^^^^^
First, I don't drink alcohol.
Second, no, there is no difference, and the insistance that there is a difference makes all the more juicy debate.
Just keep digging that hole deeper,...mmmkay.
Maybe for s-o-m-e-o-n-e ..... it makes no difference....
but to many red blooded Americans, they don't care if the illegal is here opening a manufacturing plant or just pulling weeds for Granny Smith..... the fact that they have no documentation violates Americans rights and the gov't has thusfar ignored the problem. They didnt' come as tourist, paying their hard-earned money in casinos, restuarants, hottels, and shopping malls. When the economy was flowing, few cared that they were here..... including me.... but now that we have hard times...... when push comes to shove..... we're going to start shoving.

Rome wasn't built in a year, little by little we are getting there.

If this poster would stop waving the mexican flag ..... the facts might not be so apparent.
Rome wasn't built in a day, you're right.....but in Rome.... the workers were "forced" - "enslaved" ....to work for the King....but they were legal residents.... not illegals sneaking in.
See, that's one thing- I've truly begun to lose admiration for those here illegally.... but who are boastful about their enterprises and below the table dealings.
There's nothing admirable about being a thief, a murderer, or a cheat..... and illegals are cheating the system.... just as the people who will employ them are cheats....
MY best employee is a Panamanian.... and he's here "LEGALLY". He owns a house....does fine workmanship....is incredibly trustworthy and loyal....and I'd take a dozen more like him....but... they're so few in numbers.... I wouldn't hire someone without documentation...because that's a cheat.....and those who would employ someone without documentation....is a cheat.....
We're about to see a cataclysmic eruption in The US.....when enough people get sick and tired of witnessing this debauchery.

FEEL ME????

remember: borrowed time....eventually catches up to a person.........and anyone here illegally.....or who's hiring illegals....is on borrowed time.
I think thats about all I've got on this subject.....at least with regard to this poster....so unless something substancial is presented.... I doubt I'll be posting again.

 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 123
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History
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/13/2008 7:55:29 AM

I am just curious, when were the good economic times when no one cared about illegal immigration?


When the majority of them got here. When unemployment was low and there was demand for more workers than we had workers to fill the positions. I'm not exactly sure when that was, but according to some on here, it must still be happening, because they sure don't seem to mind if they stick around.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 124
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Posted: 12/13/2008 9:59:18 AM

... because they sure don't seem to mind if they stick around.
I'm thinking that it's not that people don't mind if they stick around, but unfortunately, other than doing what Hitler did (everyone must carry their papers identifying themselves at all times) ... there just is no practical way (as yet) to get them out of the country and be assured that they won't just jump the border the next night and make their way back in.

I don't appreciate it at all that they're here. Other than holding the "employers of illegal immigrants" responsible for their actions, I can't see that there is a truly practical solution to keeping their numbers down.

Unfortunately, the flip side to making it impossible for them (the illegals) to get employment (through employers) ... is that they turn to doing illegal things like peddling drugs and guns and whatnot. (Down here in Florida, many of the illegal women are prostitutes ... I know this because I dealt with them in the jail after they were arrested).

I shudder to think how that illegal activity already impacts our society and how it will impact our society in the future if we do indeed succeed in cracking down on them.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 125
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History
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/13/2008 10:31:12 AM
The above post is another good reason why deportation is going to be a necessary part of the equation. Like I said previously the bad "bad eggs" have to be the first to go, then get the peaceful, "we're just looking for jobs" faction out.
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 127
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History
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/13/2008 12:36:59 PM

I am just curious, when were the good economic times when no one cared about illegal immigration?

pre 9.1.01..... essentially, during Clintons term. I had more work than I could handle, then, but right as he was leaving office, pre-election 2000, things began dwindling and I could see more and more "foreigners" getting work. To this day, I see more "foreigners" taking off from supply houses with truckloads of materials, while I'm piddling around doing repair jobs and such.

I'm thinking that it's not that people don't mind if they stick around, but unfortunately, other than doing what Hitler did (everyone must carry their papers identifying themselves at all times)
With all due respect, riddle me this: In what other Country, (besides some depraved region of Africa), can people just walk in, walk around, take up jobs, buy homes,/property/cars, start businesses, and live among the people, W-I-T-H-O-U-T... documentation......? I don't think it happens in Europe, Australia .... you can't even do that in Mexico... FCS. So, a comparison to Hitler is really an extremist POV. We're not suggesting gasing them out, filling up concentration camps, or executing them, even though some have offered such inhumane, whimsickle ideas. ( I actually think friendleebear had a most impressive, well thought out concept with his moat/alligator/dirt solution)
If the gov't demanded documentation, and leveled fines against each offense, be it a homeowner or a business, let's say.....$1000 per offense..... then people would R-E-A-D-I-L-Y... make the effort to insure the people who do work for them- were documented. It's not a Hitler mentality.....it's a universal given.....we/I can't go to Britain, Finland, Switzerland....or even Russia, middle east, A-N-Y-W-H-E-R-E... without a passport or perhaps a work VISA. IF I tried to I'd be arrested, and if I were lucky....I'd get deported, versus a lengthy jail term. You can't go to another Country without a VISA or a passport..... period....end of story. If you're found there without documentation, you're detained or deported.
And on that note, "foreigners" don't create such an influx in other Countries. I mean, we're not hearing about similar episodes in other Countries.... b-e-c-a-u-s-e.... those countries don't allow it. How simple is that.
No one can stop a "foreigner" from buying property or staying in a hotel here. People are free, in that sense, to walk around without reprieve. That's tourism, just as if I went to some other Country to "visit". Yet that's not what we have here.... we have a migration of 20-30 m-i-l-l-i-o-n people ...... who are taking jobs, using our governmental services, and living off of our good graces... yet the levy can only hold so much water... until it breaks. California is the biggest, most critical indicator...but many other states have similar situations.
Hospitals are closing, cities are already in bankruptcy.... and yet, a majority of folks turn a blind eye to a major source of depletion in the economy.....it's like someone else said earlier.... A main financial artery/vein has been severed in this Country and the remedies thus far have been superficial bandaids. The problem is being ignored because wall street big dogs and car manufacturing companies are needing their "fix". The present administration is still doing their part to give more to the uber-wealthy.... and simultaneously killing the middle class. It's a silent attempt at creating a 2 class society....the "haves" and the "have-nots".
Meanwhile, people of the middle class are gathering in tent cities across the nation as they lose homes, cars, jobs, et al. Just how much farther in recession can we go until we come to a realization of this major cataclysmic failure in our society? And if every person here in America was required to carry documentation... in order to "work"..... we'd have more jobs available for people in tents.....who just want to feed themselves, their kids...and start a new beginning. M-AK-I-N-G money here....should be reserved for people who make residence here.... not some illegal who's selfish desire is counterproductive to our society.

What a concept.
Burr, it's cold.
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