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 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 133
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Solutions to illegal immigration?Page 4 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)

... actually Americans have been traveling abroad without a problem forever, sometimes with just a drivers license or a birth certificate.
I visited and lived in Europe for over 30 years and I can assure you that there was never a time between 1972 and 2002 that I was able to get on a plane to any country there without showing a US Passport.

For certain, I would not have been able to get through customs over there without the US Passport. Likewise as my children came into the world ... I had to travel to the US Embassy and apply for a passport for my children ... register their birth abroad. They would not have been able to leave there without that passport and ever expect to get back in upon returning to their home in Germany.

I do recall as a child that my parents traveled all through Canada with us ... but they also had to show our birth certificates at the border every time we'd cross it ... whether or not we were going into Canada or heading back into the US.

I have no idea where the above poster intends to go outside of the US with just a picture ID, but I doubt it could be Europe. I haven't tried to travel to Canada for a long time now and do recall that at one time it was possible to travel to the Grand Cayman Islands and Cancun with just a driver's license ... I don't know if that's possible still.

OT ...
I still think that the place to start when it comes to dealing with the illegal immigrants is with the people who continuously employ them ... most especially the ones who employ people for cheap labor and do not demand any type of official ID.

I know that people can buy false ID's, but many know they don't even need an ID to work in the cheap labor pools for cash. That just encourages the illegals to stay.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 134
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Posted: 12/13/2008 8:29:59 PM
To the person who said you can travel abroad easily with nothing more than personal ID:

You can't even go to Canada anymore without a legal US passport. Well, oftentimes you can get in, but you can't get back without one. But apparently down Mexico way you can get into the US with a knapsack and pocket full of dreams. 10 to a truck. Why the differing stardards for our borders?
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 136
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Posted: 12/13/2008 10:44:11 PM
Sorot

does anyone here have a knowledge (Except Mane bcs mane is a BSer he just thinks everyone who comes here

I've let this go for a while....but... it needs to be said.
Even though I know you're just joking.... I've been temporarily banned twice already for posting with direct message to a poster. So.....For your sake and mine.... let's keep the topic generalized and without specific derrogatory remarks about individuals, and keep the topic of discussion...."on topic".
Just a word to the wise.


Brandie46
AS a few people here have mentioned, it's probably true that some countries laws are more relaxed than we are here in the US, "now". I have traveled in years past with only picture ID and birth certificate, but that's changed post 9.1.01. You can't travel to Canada without a passport....and regardless of what country allows entry without a passport, you can't get back into the US without a passport. That law changed 2 years ago. However, most countries through Europe require passports today. I've not been but my children went through Europe last spring with an uncle and needed their passports at any border crossing or major installation. The point I was trying to make, though, is that setting up residence, taking work, and becoming an integral part of any countries culture requires preparations, and generally a work visa. This requirement has been ignored here for many years now. It used to be enforced. IDK.... maybe everyone in Washington is on Crack now?
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 141
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Posted: 12/14/2008 10:20:15 PM

Get a clue folks!
How much do you think it will cost to locate, detain and deport the illegals?
HELLO, IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!
Cry and moan all you want, you're pissin' in the wind. You might just as well learn to live with them, they aren't going anywhere!

- - - - - - - N e w s F l a s h - - - - - - -

As long as there is money to be made by greedy corporations who profit off the backs of illegals there will be a constant influx.

Pre-financial meltdown, those were probably very true statements. However (coma) do you really think people, American people, will stand by idly, homeless, living in a tent, scrapping to feed their kids, while illegal immigrants go out and make money?
These are drastic times, which require drastic measures. I sense that there will be an administrative enforcement of required documents or hefty fines. Deportation would run 20 billion, so from a financial aspect, the cost of deportation would be very cost-effective, considering it cost tax payers in the neighborhood of 300 billion annually for them to be here.

Pissing in the wind, I doubt. Had we not fallen off the Dow Jones radar for weeks on end, maybe that would be true, but suspicions tell me we're in much dire times than we're being told. (sorry, I find that laughable) Truth is, if people "had" the knowledge that, for instance, much more crushing economic tragedies would soon unfold, they'd stop shopping, they'd start saving. But Americans tend to be obsessive about their consuming. Not only do they live on the very edge of making ends meet, they want to borrow m-o-r-e.. money to buy things. But im getting off topic.

These hard financial times are going to force changes in other areas....and I venture to say...if enough people stand up and make a scene about illegals gainfully employed, while Americans get bank rolled and homeless, we'll see change coming with a quickness.

Just my 2.3 cents worth
 d0rene
Joined: 6/7/2008
Msg: 143
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Posted: 12/15/2008 4:45:17 PM
Read in the Sunday paper that they arrested someone who was employing 2 or 3 illegals and in the process of importing 1 or 2 more. He is going to court and faces a possibility of up to 10 years jail time- don't have the article for reference right now. Iowa is also looking at seizing the assets of Agriprocessors and they did arrest the head of the company along with other personnel. He is out on bail, but he is still going to trial over it. Things are starting to flow the right way....

Let people be aware that there are consequences and the authorities are going to step in. In order to buy alcohol, get hired at a job, cash a check.... you have to have identification, driver's license, etc. Start enforcing the law and stop looking the other way and the current climate will change.
 angelsands
Joined: 9/17/2005
Msg: 145
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/15/2008 7:21:13 PM
Here is the perfect solution... Before I say it, please indulge me in to something... Well/... uuhhh.. everyone of US is trying to blame the big business and the sort.. but .. WHAT ABOUT US...!!! US.... as in WE..!! Shouldn't it be better and faster if WE STOP COSUMING THE PRODUCTS THEY "PRODUCE"..?? What about if we stop buying the vegetables we buy at the grocery store...?? and the meats..?? furniture..??.. Ohhh.. wait.. NOT TO BUY THE HOUSES THEY BUILT..?? What about if WE don't hire companies that CUT our grass and maintain our HOUSES... (YEAH MR CHERTOFF..)?? What about if We don't wear the APPAREL they make... ?? What about if we don't eat the FOOD at the restaurants where they work at..?? And to take our vehicles to the shops where they work at..?? Not to mention to STOP SENDING MONEY TO THE GOVERMENT BECAUSE THAY ALSO BUILT (OR AT LEAST CONTRUBUTE) THE ROADS WHERE WE TRAVEL IN..?? INCLUDING THE GOVERMENT BUILDINGS... OHHH YEAH ....!!! That is the perfect solution... !! Don't You think is time that WE either recognize them and acknowledge their contributions or simply WE START demanding our sons and daughters to do what they do..?? What do Yo think..??? Isn't it PERFECT..??
 angelsands
Joined: 9/17/2005
Msg: 147
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/15/2008 7:52:29 PM
Mr red.. uhhh ... C'mon... ... PLEAZZEEE...!! You seriously don't BELIEVE what you are saying... (xcept the excerpt where You state that "some" of our sons and daughters are doing it.... and that is stretching it.... VERY far..) But I mean... You don't seriously BELIEVE what YOU are saying...!! UHhh.. Do YOu..??? Please tell me You don't..!! I mean.... uhhh.. DO YOU..??
 angelsands
Joined: 9/17/2005
Msg: 150
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/15/2008 8:26:11 PM
Welll... Mr red... Report me to the MOderator.. By the way mr Moderator... HOW are YOU... ?? Go and... well.. You know what... Mr. red.. Uhh.. I have NEVER been known to follow rules... specially those that apply to "laws"... Because, just in the case You have not noticed... Uhh... "law" and "justice" are not the same... actually, they are OPPOSITES.... according to our "laws"...
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 151
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Posted: 12/15/2008 9:31:00 PM

(angelsands) Shouldn't it be better and faster if WE STOP COSUMING THE PRODUCTS THEY "PRODUCE"..?? What about if we stop buying the vegetables we buy at the grocery store...?? and the meats..?? furniture..??.. Ohhh.. wait.. NOT TO BUY THE HOUSES THEY BUILT..?? What about if WE don't hire companies that CUT our grass and maintain our HOUSES... (YEAH MR CHERTOFF..)?? What about if We don't wear the APPAREL they make... ?? What about if we don't eat the FOOD at the restaurants where they work at..?? And to take our vehicles to the shops where they work at.
Actually, we should arrest and detain and take to trial all of those people who hire the illegals; this includes big businesses, processing plants, the general contractors building the homes, as well as the sub-contractors who allow illegals to work, and on down the line. First and foremost, it's a legal matter, and allowing them to work is unethical, as well as the fact that it's undermining other legal residents and bona-fide Americans who are now struggling to make ends meet. The other issue is that, at least in the construction field, there is an abundance of very non-professional people doing work they're not qualified to do. Spreading pine straw and planting shrubs is one thing....Iv'e even seen some really good brick work, but I've seen some atrocious results in tile and marble. I've also seen hideous plumbing from some derelict types who just happen to be from south of the border. And that is basically systemic from the building codes in America vs those in, say, Mexico.
I think if Betty Buckhead loses her job at, oh, say Bellsouth, At&T, or any number of businesses that are going down quickly, she's going to need work, and she probably won't care what it is so long as she's able to feed her kids. So, the idea that she wont' eat at a restaurant that employees illegals is just a bit short of the mark. She'll be demanding to have a job in place of one of those who's undocumented. People are just N-O-T going to stand by and allow "illegals" to work while those who've paid into the infrastructure for generations upon generations- stand by and do without.


Here is the perfect solution...

Trying to abstain from buying products that illegals handle or produce in some fashion is clearly not going to do anything but run the business further into the ground, financially. What good would that do someone who's looking for work? No, the "I'm legal and documented, and he/she is not, and I'm demanding I get hired" approach is much more convincing. When employers see an angry person with documentation staring them in the face, threatening to report the illegal employee(s), there will be a change. Pretty soon, we'll begin to see the laws enforced....from fruit harvesting, to landscaping, to construction.
No doubt, Americans have more or less "accepted" the illegals because they really didnt' care who did that work. But today is different. And quite frankly, all the spoiled little American kids are just going to have to accept that if they want to earn a living, they may just have to get their hands dirty, sweat a little, and learn the basics of life from the ground up. No problem. The change will do them some good, not to mention, they'll learn something new. They'll learn to cook for themselves or they'll learn a skilled trade- whatever the skill they receive will be well earned. Todays young people typically couldn't operate a power tool without hurting themselves, they dont' know what it's like working in a hot kitchen on your feet for 7-8 hours at a time..... but it's coming. The dwindling economy is going to have some natural repurcussions over time, and American kids are going to have to branch into different fields of blue collar work. But it's ok. It'll be good for them. They'll learn a w-h-o-l-e... new appreciation for the art of making a living.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 154
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Posted: 12/16/2008 12:20:46 AM

or Paris Hilton's panties will get torn or Britney Spears will show her "treasures" to entire world without being completely shaved, they will be headline news.


The fact that things like this are what sells commercial airtime and newspapers is sad commentary on what's most important on the minds of the people.

Same thing with redwood having to mention that Terry Anderson is a black man.
The fact that many of us are worried about our country going down the drain, and all people who don't see it as a problem can think of is to call us racist because a minority race is a main part of the problem. The problem is they are here illegally, and I could care less if they are purple.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 158
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Posted: 12/16/2008 7:48:32 PM
I think what you fail to realise, Sorot, is no one here is calling illegal immigrants losers. No one here is saying anything except two basic things.

(1) Illegals being here is illegal, hence the "illegal" part of the term illegals.

(2) They are a drain on our economy, shown many times over and over in this thread, to those who refuse to see it, or who make excuses for it. each time the truth is exposed.

Those of us who oppose illegal immigration, have our economy and our future in mind. Name calling and profiling have nothing to do with it. They don't solve this problem. It's funny but two legal immigrants I know who came here from Mexico are the only guys I've ever heard refer to illegals with any disdain. They both called them wetbacks and had a true disliking for illegals. Why? Because they feel illegals from Mexico made things harder for them. They dislike the fact they are looked at by many as second class citizens when they did all the right things and made all the right moves. Legal immigrants from countries with soaring illegal immigrant numbers suffer worse than anyone, and I'm shocked they aren't a louder voice than Americans in all of this.

As far as Mexico toughening their border, they actually want to see Americans come in. They know it spells more money for the economy. It's an absolute reversal of the whole situation. Who are the idiots in all of it? Not Mexico. You got that right. It's those who refuse to see the problems illegal immigration causes or turn a blind eye to it. Those who refuse to do anything about for fear of something stupid like losing votes. Those who don't want to harm our relations with our southern neighbors. But the bad news is, the "land of plenty" is quickly becoming the "land of not enough". And if and when it becomes the "land of none at all" illegal immigrants with be a major contributor to it.
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 159
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Posted: 12/17/2008 7:40:44 AM

@ Mane...what the typical Betty Buckhead does after losing her job, is to collect unemployment for six months, without REALLY looking for another job. The illegal immigrant probably makes about the same amount of money working some menial job, that Betty collects sitting at home, eating bon bons while watching the soaps.

Obviously, we see things much differently. In fact, I know different.
There are, indeed, people lining up for a service our country offers, unemployment, something these drastic times of rising unemployment call for. Ironically, unemployment is something that probably isn't offered in Mexico, and many countries of latin america.

You know, all this talk about the illegals working and having 'stuff' had me thinking about the 'immigrant mentality' which is to make as much money as you can while you can. I thought to myself, if the illegals are working....there MUST be jobs out there.
Funny. That thought had me thinking what a financial drain it is for the US to have all that money being sent to Mexico and parts south. Furthermore, I still can't get past the "illegal" aspect of "illegal immigrants". Yeah I know, good people, hard workers. WHATEVER. But contrary to what this poster mentions, jobs are dropping like cakes at a bake sale. people are l-o-s-i-n-g ... jobs.... and there are sub-cultures in our society that allow illegals to have access to many jobs that is, thus, preventing many americans from getting hired.

So, if there are jobs out there that the illegals are doing, why would we not take those jobs, and deny them the opportunity to make that money that rightfully belongs to us?
Because we're documented. Until our gov't demands documentation, illegals will have an upper hand at getting jobs under the table, under the tax radar, and undermining Americans across the nation. If Joe American is seeking a painting job, and as an experienced painter, he's expecting $15-20 per hour, Hose A and Hose B are willing to do the job wihtout taxation for the same money. They're undermining his abilities to work, namely because he's got taxes to pay, social security to pay, and insurances to buy. And in case this newflash comes as a surprise, we still live under the same system we always have. There are millions of people looking for work right now and some greedy business-people are accustomed to having work done via illegal immigrants, thus disabling the american people the opportuity to take those jobs. The gov't is going to have to intervene and fine or imprison employers who hire illegals, thus freeing up the job market that ilegals have cornered. This, ironically, would solve much of our present financial woes for many out of work and displaced Americans.
 dmotz
Joined: 11/19/2008
Msg: 161
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/17/2008 2:55:51 PM
With he current economy now would be an excellent time to round them all up...send them packing! Take the jobs from the illegals and give them to REAL Americans who have lost their's. Some say we Americans are to lazy to work the jobs the illegals do...for cheap wages...now lets see. Kick them all the hell out of this country and watch those unemployed Americans go after the jobs...a lesson for us all!
 d0rene
Joined: 6/7/2008
Msg: 162
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Posted: 12/17/2008 6:35:15 PM

As far as Mexico toughening their border, they actually want to see Americans come in. They know it spells more money for the economy. It's an absolute reversal of the whole situation. Who are the idiots in all of it? Not Mexico. You got that right.


Why would Mexico want to see anything put across the border? American tourists go into Mexico and spend money buying souvenirs and adding to their tax base that way. Illegals cross the border and earn money to send home which then puts more money into their economy that is paid in taxes and that they buy products. Instead of an American worker paying an American grocer, the illegal work is paying into a business in Mexico and supporting that economy. But hey, it's all good right? The employer saves money on labor and he doesn't have to mess with dealing with the government. So maybe in a few years there will be no one to buy his product in America.... I hear India is a growing economy, and Mexico is sure looking up?!
 d0rene
Joined: 6/7/2008
Msg: 165
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Posted: 12/18/2008 5:07:37 PM
1. Ethics is the problem. If a lawyer KNOWS beyond a shadow of a doubt that his client is guilty and then helps him walk away without a problem, then it is a problem. The ethics crisis is one of the biggest problems today. It's ok to do it - just don't get caught doing it.

2. ENTER THE COUNTRY LEGALLY. At least, even though it was done illegally, she gained citizenship for them and they would have the right to return as adults. With the huge economic crisis we are facing, we are having trouble raising American children - look at what happened when Nebraska left it's safe haven law with an open age. How many teenage children were dropped off. Now because someone sneaks across the border we are expected to raise those children or allow them to have an illegal babysitter? Don't enter the country in the first place!

3. ENTER THE COUNTRY LEGALLY! What kind of an idiot sneaks across the border with a baby? If the child lived here for 41 years and got a free education, I can almost guarantee you there will be job somewhere for an educated English speaking ambitious person. Why is America expected to revere the fact that these people are slick enough to beat the system. "BUT, BUT, I'VE DONE IT FOR 41 YEARS, SHOULDN'T I BE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO DO IT?" As you said, his parents retired to their home country - he goes where they go, even if he's 41 years old.

You're right, they did receive a free education and that is why our schools are having such a major crisis. Maybe we should start submitting bills so they can help defray the costs of their education?
 angelsands
Joined: 9/17/2005
Msg: 166
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/18/2008 5:35:26 PM
In case You had forgotten.. uhh.. the minimum wage is still 6.75 U.S. Dollars.. LESS that what they pay at ANY fast food restaurant.... So, Uhh.. It makes me wonder what would happen if WE ALL START ANY JOB AT THE MINIMUM WAGE.... !! Even though the pay is above the minimum wage... Not many "Americans" are lined up to take those jobs... Please stop kidding ourselves ....! Yet, we want to have the benefit of cheap prices... but refuse to "boycott" whatever they make...That is a little bit... uhhh... OXIMORONIC.... don't You think..?? I mean, WE all complain about outsourcing jobs, but WE still go to Wal-Mart and buy the same products that the American people should be making here...Why..?? Because of the CHEAP prices... The same thing happen with the "illegals"... Let's be realistic... We simply can not have of both words....
 dragonpat
Joined: 9/29/2006
Msg: 168
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Posted: 12/18/2008 7:46:39 PM
In the third case above may I ask why the person in question didnt take advantage of the amnesty offered in the 80's? WHy that person didnt apply for citizenship? why that person had to stay illegal for all those years?
just curious.
 dragonpat
Joined: 9/29/2006
Msg: 170
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Posted: 12/18/2008 11:40:46 PM
I dont know of any international law that would prohibit the deportation of non-citizens back to their own country. Last i checked it was still an aspect of soverignty that a nation can remove non-citizens. I could be wrong. But i dont think i am. As for deteration of our relationship with mexico, how would sending back their citizens be a justified cause for them to be upset with the US? As for the rest of the world, well they are right now having their own immigration problems.
As for amnesty, well a partial amnesty would be a viable answer providing there was some real effort made to stop the flood. I still think the best way to stop the flood is go after the employers big time. No job, no reason to stay.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 172
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Posted: 12/19/2008 4:29:14 PM
I think to take what Sorot said in the above post futher, while adding even more of a revelation to your question DP, is this:

The reason Mexico would be upset with America for sending back illegals is easy. They can't afford them either, and it's easier to make America look like an uncaring society than it is to tell the truth. If we put their own burden back on them, we are the bad guy.


As for amnesty, well a partial amnesty would be a viable answer providing there was some real effort made to stop the flood. I still think the best way to stop the flood is go after the employers big time. No job, no reason to stay.


I don't think given the direction our country is heading, any amnesty is good thing at this time. In my area, thousands were given pink slips, many auto industry workers are losing their jobs on Dec. 23rd. As I've said before, if everything were A-OK in this country economically, then fine. But it isn't and it's going to get worse. See the thread about the country heading for a depression. If that happens, how can we justify giving amnesty to illegals when we can't provide jobs for our own? And while I've debated with many others on this very topic, I don't think going after the employers will get rid of them all. Just the honest ones who really did come here with no other intention except to provide for their families. Those into criminal activity will continue to stay and be a source of problems. And they are the one's who need deportation the quickest.
 angelsands
Joined: 9/17/2005
Msg: 173
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/19/2008 4:44:40 PM
WOOOOOWWWW...!! Uhh.. I will have to admit that I never thought I would agree with You Mr. Ready... Even though partially. The problem is that the ones getting deported... are the ones that HELP and try to contribute... meanwhile the "criminals" are roaming free and some of them even have PRIVATE JETS...!!! Have You ever heard of WALL-STREET...??? What about CONGRESS..?? OHH.. I almost forgot... THE WHITE HOUSE...!!!
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 175
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Posted: 12/19/2008 9:54:38 PM

meanwhile the "criminals" are roaming free and some of them even have PRIVATE JETS...!!! Have You ever heard of WALL-STREET...??? What about CONGRESS..?? OHH.. I almost forgot... THE WHITE HOUSE...!!!


Hey, now......

The only place we can deport the Wall Street, Congress and White House guys to is San Quentin. But first you gotta find something that they are guilty of and will stick, and until then they ARE at the very least legal citizens.

Now these other cats we're discussin'.........they are criminals first, anything else second. Big difference there. We got something that will stick on those guys, now we just gotta convince those "criminals" (your definition not mine) in Congress and the White House to do something about 'em.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 176
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Posted: 12/23/2008 2:23:17 AM
Now Ahh-nuld says Cali-fornia is gonna be brohke eff they don't come hup with 42 billion in da next two months.

Is this haven of illegals the next big Government bailout?

I think this is where the showdown could begin and make a big impact if someone has the 'nads to stand up and fight for it. Give the bailout if they take a percentage and start the mass (M)exodus runnin' toward the border! Set up one way tickets for those who need them and those who have vehicles "pack our sh!t & start yer engines"! It would send the right message since those bozos in congress seem to think they deserve some kind of raise for the piss-poor job they do and actually earn a bit of it by overseeing something meaningful for the first time in a long time. Show this country that it can actually do something to save a bit of the tax money they seem to want to give to everyone but those who earn it.

But, nah, that would be too easy. They'll probably just hand it to them without any stipulation and we can watch the Mexican GNP increase again as we watch our unemployment numbers do the same. Why am I so quickly becoming very disillusioned with my country?
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 177
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Posted: 12/23/2008 8:24:03 AM

I don't think given the direction our country is heading, any amnesty is good thing at this time. In my area, thousands were given pink slips, many auto industry workers are losing their jobs on Dec. 23rd. As I've said before, if everything were A-OK in this country economically, then fine. But it isn't and it's going to get worse.
No, it's obviously not A-OK here in the good ole US of A. We still haven't found a bottom in this downward economic spiral. Quite frankly, if I were here illegally, I'd be making plans to exit stage south....cuz things are going to get worse. We may see at least another 150 days (5 mos) of continued layoffs and business closings, home foreclosures, etc. Bank institutions have taken billions in bailout moneys and yet refuse to disclose where or how the money is being spent. Wall Street is in bed with the higher escelon of government and they're getting whatever they can while the gettin's good.

In a nutshell, there is no accountability in America. (Just look at Maddof)

But write a bad check and see how accountable you will have to be.

Why am I so quickly becoming very disillusioned with my country?

Ready, this may be where our opinions depart. As I see it, illegal immigration didn't start just yesterday, but in the past 8 yrs, things have drastically changed. 8 yrs ago, illegals were here but it's quite possible they've doubled in numbers in that time. After 9/11, it would have seemed ever so apparent that we needed to stem the flow coming across our southern border, not to mention other areas of the pacific northwest. Yet, these issues have all but been ignored. Up until a week or so of the financial meltdown, Bush (and McCain, I might add) continued telling the American people our economy was strong, while Obama had long since warned of catastrophic failure if things continued on the same path. So finally, after a couple million homes had been foreclosed on, and unemployment started rising exponentially, Bush finally admits (a year after anlayst had concluded we were already in a recession) that we were in a recession. For many, who take his word as the nectar of survival, they refused to see our economic woes until he made such statements publicly. It's as if they could not see with their own eyes, that they couldn't think outside the box (brainwashing) long enough to see they were covering things up, until it's much too late. And I think the problem with illegal immigration is parallel to this-that the situation grew much dire before it would ever be recognized publicly. Bush waited to admit the economic failure until it could not be held back any longer, and I feel they already know how pitiful the situation is concerning illegal immigration, but because other issues have now surfaced, it's too easy to ignore the basic facts, that the illegal conundrum is as much a part of our economic woes as the Wall Street money grab is. As you clearly point out, AHnold is beggin for a bailout.... but what if SF & LA were no longer a sanctuary for illegals.... these illegals are clearly a financial burden on that states economy. Yet no ones got the khahunas to admit it. So, in terms of accountability for bailout money, wouldn't you think AHnold should stem the tide by making sure their bailout money goes towards insuring bona-fide Americans will receive the benefits - by clearing out all those with illegal status? That goes for any state who's filing bankruptcy or has a hand out for bailout monies.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 178
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Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/23/2008 10:41:43 AM

So, in terms of accountability for bailout money, wouldn't you think AHnold should stem the tide by making sure their bailout money goes towards insuring bona-fide Americans will receive the benefits - by clearing out all those with illegal status? That goes for any state who's filing bankruptcy or has a hand out for bailout monies.


Absolutely, 100% agree. I thought I made that point clear before the government gives them a peso, we should get some kind of insurance it goes to help Americans. Legal Americans. If I implied anything other than that, it was not my intent. And if you think I hold Bush/repubs any less accountable for this economic mess (including illegal immigration) than anyone else, that wasn't the intent either. My statement about becoming disillusioned was because I somehow know in my heart that California WILL get that bailout money without stipulation, and things will continue on status quo. And that, for lack of a more fitting term, sucks.
 cpfstock
Joined: 11/7/2005
Msg: 180
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/24/2008 1:09:43 AM
Actually erik
Like destroying the medicare system and helping big pharma.
Like passing Energy legislation written by Energy lobbyists.
Like eliminating taxes on multi-million dollar estates

all these are more important than the immigration issue. But here is one simple idea to help curb illegal immigration. Take for instance a city like San Fancisco, which has a stated policy of NOT enforcing immigration laws an d refusing to cooperate with federal law enforcment in these matters. Fine. Now just cut off all federal money to the city and any governmental body within the city like the school district. You want to do your own thing, pay for it.
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