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 Sivoph
Joined: 8/2/2008
Msg: 55
GRAFFITI: Art or Crime?Page 3 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
Both...what makes it so special.
 Thatguy67
Joined: 9/20/2006
Msg: 57
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History
GRAFFITI: Art or Crime?
Posted: 2/23/2009 6:19:51 AM
Growing up in Toronto, much of the graffiti i saw was gang- related. Just marking their turf and it seemed to be everywhere. Even on people's private homes & cars.
 rickxyz
Joined: 1/27/2009
Msg: 58
GRAFFITI: Art or Crime?
Posted: 2/23/2009 9:29:52 AM
Its art if Banksy did it!
 CatintheorangeHat
Joined: 2/18/2009
Msg: 59
GRAFFITI: Art or Crime?
Posted: 2/23/2009 8:20:14 PM
I totally say that there is some great graf out there. but there's also a lot of crap. it's too bad that society has this hoodlum label plastered over it and anyone wearing a hoodie, because I think the criminal sentences deter a lot of would-be greater's from continuing after getting busted a couple times.
 TxSixStringS
Joined: 8/19/2008
Msg: 60
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History
GRAFFITI: Art or Crime?
Posted: 2/25/2009 1:34:00 AM
As an artist, I believe that "Graffiti" is fine under the right circumstances.
Graffiti on the side of a school building that only shows an ex partners phone number is not ART! It's a crime! Graffiti showing street gangs tags crossed out in multi colors on every sidewalk and lamp post is not art and makes our urban areas look like SH|T! And... it's a crime.

It seems I remember seeing a program where a teacher in LA opened an art studio and brought "graffiti" taggers into the studio. They were given a free canvas on which to create art. And then sold the art to the public. Low and behold... the taggers started to see they could not only keep their neighborhood streets from turning ugly, but they could make money and get positive feedback instead of being chased and arrested by LAPD.

ART done with spray cans on a fence or the side of a building or other wall with the owners PERMISSION is fine and I'm truly amazed at the creativity by those that can paint with a spray can.
 pinciperro
Joined: 4/5/2008
Msg: 61
GRAFFITI: Art or Crime?
Posted: 2/25/2009 1:48:06 AM
Ahhh we have a wonderful graffiti artist in our town by the name of Paco Rosic.
He has painted a recreation of the Sistine chapel . Initially he was just an unknown painter.
Now many of his creations bless our little city, in fact he opened a restaurant with paintings of his displayed throughout.

So, for me the artist will use whatever medium he/she is talented in, and I for one, feel as if we should encourage them in whichever they choose.
 Mr_SmartFun
Joined: 1/16/2009
Msg: 62
GRAFFITI: Art or Crime?
Posted: 2/25/2009 11:53:31 PM

However if you paint an overpass, a freight train, an electric box, rooftop of abandoned building who exactly is the victim? A crime is supposed to have a victim. Some people don't like how it looks, well hey I don't like the hundreds of billboards and ads I see on the subway and everywhere else in the city but I have to look at them. It's all about money, billboards and ads are essentially graffiti. They are messages and images placed upon you regardless of whether you appreciate them or not. The only difference is one is paid for and the other isn't. Legality is completely irrelevant to whether or not something is art or not.


Welcome to relativism at its worst.

Look, the original question of this thread has it all wrong (as already been noted). If you mark up private or public property without permission, it's a crime. It's not "okay", it's not "better than nothing":there's no subjectivity here. You're not allowed to do it, the property doesn't belong to you, and it's not up to you or anyone besides the property owner for you to decide what "looks better." There's no credible argument to counter this. If you think there is, let me ask you- would you be willing to have someone else decide how your hair is cut or what clothes you wear- with no input from you?

And can we let up on the "cry of the poor and unprivledged"? When most graffiti far and away is either gang-related or just ego-driven tagging? It's not exactly like some Renessiance movement is being beaten back. As far as that graffiti which demonstrates qualities that could be construed as "art"- it's not entirely my cup of tea, but why can't it move in areas the same as any other art? I mean, get a canvas. If someone is willing to hire you to decorate their wall, that's one thing. It's not up to any graffiti "artist" to decide that abandoned building looks better with their shtick on it.

Which leads me to the quote above. Crime has to have a "victim"- but anyone who doesn't like graffiti on a place that is "okay" with YOU isn't a "victim" because you have to look at advertising which YOU hate and that's "graffiti" to YOU. Dude, there's more than the difference that "one's paid for and the other isn't". (Which, besides being wrong, is no minor difference)

I hate that advertising is all over the place, but at least there is a process to it. Somebody decides how big and how much, and every now and again it goes away when people change their minds. To decide that because a bunch of beer ads are annoying you that you have any sort of legitimacy to mark up places that you've decided are the better for it doesn't wash.

There's no "moral" aspect to it. Shitty neighborhoods look even shittier with graffiti. Much of the world's best art IS in the Met and MOMA. Nobody is owed space in there, and to argue that jeesh, if you don't "give" people "time and space" to make better graffiti then you're going to get ugly tags and deserve it- puh-leese.
 GingersnapWa
Joined: 2/8/2009
Msg: 63
GRAFFITI: Art or Crime?
Posted: 2/26/2009 1:23:18 PM
If you spray paint your Own wall - It's Art. If you paint someone else's wall (or one owned by a public entity, like a city) without permission- It's Graffiti. And it is an illegal act...
 cutefuzzybeast
Joined: 2/19/2009
Msg: 64
GRAFFITI: Art or Crime?
Posted: 2/26/2009 7:58:29 PM
Important to differentiate between Graffiti and Tagging. Tagging being when lame people "tag" their name or symbol or crass slogan. Graffiti is artistic and adds color and interest to an otherwise drab city landscape. ... Art. All the way.
 rtrtrtrtyyyuu
Joined: 2/21/2009
Msg: 65
GRAFFITI: Art or Crime?
Posted: 2/27/2009 9:44:28 PM
Art, of course. I think the only reason it's a crime is because it's being confused with vandalism, which is a whole other ball game.
 ManFromMesa
Joined: 4/14/2009
Msg: 66
GRAFFITI: Art or Crime?
Posted: 5/7/2009 7:58:01 AM
Graffiti,is a crime,they should at a minimum pay for a professional painter the repaint the mans store front or the owners fence,all the burden is put on the owner,and makes neighborhoods look cheap and dangerous,its everywhere in slummy areas not so much in good areas,hence my point,taggers and graffitti artist have no sense of respect of others property and show do mandatory jail time and pay for the professional repaint.They are low class as is gets,its a f*ck the world attitude.
 ManFromMesa
Joined: 4/14/2009
Msg: 67
GRAFFITI: Art or Crime?
Posted: 5/7/2009 10:17:53 PM
JeanJean I so agree,but if you lost the act of graffiti artist and became a muralist its the same spray cans except with permission,there is a big difference,sure ,be a creator ,or an artist, but not at your victims expense,a muralist paints his impression of art for free or pay on a willing persons wall,all graffiti artists just by definition "graffiti" paint their impression of art on everything that's not theirs as if the victim will like his property defaced .There is a extremely big difference,ones a crime,I'd like to see them actually do time for and a muralist could become famous for all the right reasons.Taggers,graffiti artists exact same thing they ruined the look of almost every city in this country,they single handedly turned every pretty area into blight,every train,every other wall,across picket fences,on statues across store windows and brick they are one of the biggest reasons our country that looked so beautiful looks like sh it now,a tagger/graffiti artist should do a year,and should grow up and act like they actually care about others feelings,you think the old man that saved for ten years to build his brick wall fence appreciated someone graffiti'ing it.No its only about taggers feelings,their type is so extremely selfish and so extremely wrong,and thanks to all of them for making everywhere look like sh it,good luck,what do ya do for an encore burn us down.
 renoirs_dream
Joined: 5/2/2009
Msg: 68
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History
GRAFFITI: Art or Crime?
Posted: 5/8/2009 2:10:38 AM
Man, It's a Crime if you do it where you're not suppose to.

Michelangelo was a sculptor by his OWN MOUTH. Matter of factly your statement even makes more to the argument. Michel never signed his works after the PIETA. Why? Vanity.

Spray paint and the Mona... Spray paint does not hold the properties of longevity. Would it last from the 16th century? Probably not. But there are new products that could last that long IF used correctly and on the correct surface.

I see some good talent in some graffiti. But really. I see talent and creativity in the buildings and fences and walls that where constructed THEN DEFAMED by someone not asking permission to tag the item in question. Heck, I have MORE respect for 3 year old kids that do chalk drawings on the sidewalk. They know their art will wash away and their hard work will be gone after a few days.
 LadySisko
Joined: 4/4/2009
Msg: 69
GRAFFITI: Art or Crime?
Posted: 5/8/2009 11:59:09 AM
I love Graffiti. I can see the whole crime side about it but hell sometimes Art has to be that way. Rock the Can either way.
 MrPlatonic
Joined: 8/25/2008
Msg: 70
GRAFFITI: Art or Crime?
Posted: 5/8/2009 12:16:19 PM
I totally agree with you. Even crappy graffiti improves an empty wall.

There are exceptions, such as grafitti that specifically identifies non-public figures, graffiti on windows/interfering with business profiles, or residential tagging, but these represent < 1% of the graffiti out there. Sadly, spray paint occasionally ends up in the hands of thugs with chips on the shoulder and zero artistic talent whatsoever. Punk ass ****es who tag fences, homes, cars, and windows with ugly handwriting.

I like the fact that more parks and public spaces are creating areas designed to be graffiti'd. Like skate parks, people just need places to perform. Hell, there are baseball/soccer fields everywhere.I have never seen anybody complain about a well-orchestrated wall of graffiti. The wall usually becomes a casualty of some tagger hitting the city and causing a clean-sweep reaction.

Graffiti is a crime by default. However, businesses and property owners have elected to open their walls up to it.
 DJKinetica
Joined: 11/4/2008
Msg: 71
GRAFFITI: Art or Crime?
Posted: 5/9/2009 3:35:39 PM
When graffitti is used as a way for gang's to mark terriotry or as a form of communication between criminals, it's a crime.

However, it can be a great way for people to let out some of their artistic dreams on an otherwise worthless wall.

I remember hearing about a city in europe that tried something rather bold. In a lower-class community, the government of the town decided to open the walls to graffitti artists. They pretty much said 'Come here, get a wall, paint it". And they did. There were no rules as to what to paint, no rules as to when and how, just do it. All the sudden, a dreary and poor neighborhood became a massive art gallery. people painted massive abstract designs, outdoor scenes of a happier place, gigantic expressions of the soul. That was art, pure and simple.

For a more local example, look at local train yards for examples of some of the boring freight cars that have been painted by good artists. I've heard that many companies don't clean them off because the good art can liven up a boring car and the artists anjoy having a sense that their art might been seen on the other end of the country.
 ManFromMesa
Joined: 4/14/2009
Msg: 72
GRAFFITI: Art or Crime?
Posted: 5/11/2009 5:31:58 PM
Wondered what a dictionary might say,get the worldly opinion,the written definition.....

Graffiti (singular: graffito; the plural is used as a mass noun) is the name for images or lettering scratched, scrawled, painted or marked in any manner on property. Graffiti is sometimes regarded as a form of art and other times regarded as unsightly damage or unwanted.

Graffiti is any type of public markings that may appear in the forms of simple written words to elaborate wall paintings. Graffiti has existed since ancient times, with examples dating back to Ancient Greece and the Roman Empire[1]. In modern times, spray paint and markers have become the most commonly used materials. In most countries, defacing property with graffiti without the property owner's consent is considered vandalism, which is punishable by law. Sometimes graffiti is employed to communicate social and political messages. To some, it is an art form worthy of display in galleries and exhibitions; to others it is merely vandalism. Graffiti has since evolved into a pop culture existence often related to underground hip hop music and break dancing creating a lifestyle that remains hidden from the general public[2]. The controversies that surround graffiti continue to create disagreement amongst city officials/ law enforcement and graffitists looking to display their work in public locations. There are many different types and styles of graffiti and it is a rapidly developing artform whose value is highly contested, being reviled by many authorities while also subject to protection, sometimes within the same jurisdiction.
 T3rr4nc3
Joined: 11/11/2008
Msg: 73
GRAFFITI: Art or Crime?
Posted: 5/22/2009 8:03:40 AM
The government doesn't really like you to spray on their property. Weather it be a mailbox or on the back of a building. Unless you are fairly good at it people think its crap.
A few walls around here have been designated as tagging walls. Since they put that in I have noticed alot of people havnt been tagging around town.
 ManFromMesa
Joined: 4/14/2009
Msg: 74
GRAFFITI: Art or Crime?
Posted: 5/22/2009 10:49:55 AM
I am all for designated art walls throughout town,it would be cool if it was a city pride thing where many businesses gave up a wall,you could even have theme walls and competition walls,walls that request certain colors but art would still be up to the artist,perhaps one business said hey give me greens and blues my favorite colors,it would be cool...............................bottom line,spraying across the front of someones home is criminal
 T3rr4nc3
Joined: 11/11/2008
Msg: 75
GRAFFITI: Art or Crime?
Posted: 5/22/2009 11:45:02 AM
..bottom line,spraying across the front of someones home is criminal

theres a fine line between criminal and non criminal.
Spraying on other peoples property is against the law.
I knwo you wouldn't feel happy if you qent to work one day and seen someone spraypainted ur car so why do it to a mail box or someones store that they make a living out of.
I spray painted on the back of old stores that allready had spray paint on it.
I got caught by the cops and I paited over the spray paint i did and I was let go.
As long as you know the difference between right and wrong you should be ok.
 Deep Ender
Joined: 7/2/2008
Msg: 76
GRAFFITI: Art or Crime?
Posted: 5/24/2009 9:49:06 AM
of course great work can come from a spray can...but writing ur name on a wall does not qualify as art. I dont care how hard to read it is. obviously there are some great pieces out there with actual subjects and meaning or purpose to the art but for the most part its a self indulgent petty crime.
 lovinlivin77
Joined: 3/20/2009
Msg: 77
GRAFFITI: Art or Crime?
Posted: 5/24/2009 10:12:08 AM

Michelangelo was a sculptor by his OWN MOUTH. Matter of factly your statement even makes more to the argument. Michel never signed his works after the PIETA. Why? Vanity.


He never signed his work before the Pieta either....because he didn't have to. People recognized his work. The story goes that shortly after he finished it and when it was first placed in public for all to see, he overheard a group of people who were viewing it and talking amongst themselves. The problem for him was that they were all attributing it to other artists. So he went back after he had actually finished it, and then signed his name, in a very obvious place. He didn't want to take any chances that people would not recognize it as his work, since he considered it to be his most highly finished sculptor.

I think some graffiti can be viewed as art, that is illegal in many cases. Personally I think it can be pretty cool... but when it comes to defacing someone elses property, that is a no no.
 lovinlivin77
Joined: 3/20/2009
Msg: 78
GRAFFITI: Art or Crime?
Posted: 5/24/2009 11:27:02 AM
And Michelangelo did have his moments of vanity...how do you think he got his nose broke so badly? Lets just say...don't go criticizing other artists work when they are present...and they are a lot bigger than you, with a very short temper. (see, Memoirs of Benvenuto Cellini...)
 artist_48
Joined: 1/27/2009
Msg: 79
GRAFFITI: Art or Crime?
Posted: 5/25/2009 10:36:02 AM
Graff art is an art form when placed in the right areas. I was recently in Rapid City, SD, and viewed an alley that is dedicated to graff art and it was very expressive and well done. I have seen graff art on canvas, large PVC sheets, etc. All art forms have a place in the art world.
 Wildcard74
Joined: 12/1/2005
Msg: 80
GRAFFITI: Art or Crime?
Posted: 5/26/2009 4:11:06 PM
A very small percentage of graffiti is art. Most of it is just tagging and marking up walls with gang related crap. If the wall does not belong to you, it doesn't matter if it is art or not, it is a crime.
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