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 Quazi 100
Joined: 3/2/2008
Msg: 344
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how would you react if your son /daughter told you they where gay Page 4 of 25    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25)

Quazi, a transvestite is someone who likes to dress in the clothes of the opposite gender. A transvestite may be hetero or homosexual. A trans*gender* person is someone who feels they were born into the wrong gender body.


Ninki

This is from Wikipedia

Hirschfeld himself was not particularly happy with the term: He believed that clothing was only an outward symbol chosen on the basis of various internal psychological situations. In fact, Hirschfeld helped people to achieve the very first name changes (legal given names were and are required to be gender-specific in Germany) and performed the first reported sexual reassignment surgery. Hirschfeld's transvestites therefore were, in today's terms, not only transvestites, but people from all over the transgender spectrum.

It's not a simple issue.
 rdcnorm
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 345
how would you react if your son /daughter told you they where gay
Posted: 1/13/2009 2:23:19 PM

ok....that's enough!

Yes mommy,,


Kitten did not kill her husband. Her husband killed himself because of a heartbreaking condition that NOBODY understands fully.

How do you know what she is capable of,, personally I think she is capable of most anything horrific,,



This death happened 13 months ago, and I would bet that maybe Kitten is maybe not herself at the moment. Sometimes people act uncharacteristically when they are going through something.

Well that all may be true,, But I would guess Kitten has no remorse as she disowned then divorced her husband,, ( while I would think that would have been just as devastating to him) ( death my heart break) while as we speak she is happily remarried with a wonderful man, who is doing his best to accommodate toys in the life..

The only tragic thing here is,, a man is dead, for reason we may never know..

Her uncharacteristic nature was not brought about over night,, it's a self endued .....


I personally give her credit for divulging....

I personally think she is back peddling looking for excuses for her behavior..

Now one might say I'm lacking compassion,, you are absolutely right,,only because she wouldn't even have a clue how to accept it..nor does she desire it,,
 Quazi 100
Joined: 3/2/2008
Msg: 347
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how would you react if your son /daughter told you they where gay
Posted: 1/13/2009 3:25:30 PM

The stuff in his brain malfunctioned before he was born.



Also, "his brain malfunctioned" indicates that there's something wrong with being a transvestite. Whether or not you think positively of transvestites, that's an incredibly judgmental attitude, and rather insulting. There's nothing inherently wrong with cross-dressing.


Good God woman....where are you getting your information.

The "stuff" I was referring to malfunctioning "before he was born" was more than likely chromosomes....but NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE.

Where did I indicate that there is something wrong with being a transvestite?

Please read what I've written, not what you THINK I've written.

Kitten did not kill her husband, he killed himself. People who commit suicide make the CHOICE to end their lives.....nobody does it for them.
 Quazi 100
Joined: 3/2/2008
Msg: 348
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how would you react if your son /daughter told you they where gay
Posted: 1/13/2009 3:35:44 PM

I think you should go back and reread that post. She WAS using it for more ammunition. Her point wasn't that her heart is broken and she's confused -- her point was that no amount of talking, reading, or arguing could change her mind because she wouldn't change her mind for her husband, and even his suicide hasn't changed it.
Even if he came back, she wouldn't accept it.
THAT was her point.


Lonestarstar...

I get the impression from some of your posts that you have a good background in Psychology.

Do you think it might be possible that Kitten is in denial, and that maybe she's using anger and aggression to cover feelings of guilt, and grief?
 rdcnorm
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 349
how would you react if your son /daughter told you they where gay
Posted: 1/13/2009 3:36:13 PM
you gave kittne an out by sayig this,,

I would bet that maybe Kitten is maybe not herself at the moment


The this about the man

Kitten did not kill her husband, he killed himself. People who commit suicide make the CHOICE to end their lives.....nobody does it for them.


Did you ever think this man lost control as well, or is it kitten who get all the breaks..

You are right Kitten may not have killed him,, I don't know.. I will suggest this,, mental and emotional stress can play havoc on the human mind, especially when he was already suffering with his sexually issues, that he confided in his wife ,, then rejected like a bad sack of potato's,,,, I would say, that man lost it all, as he was looking for help and understanding from some one he loved,, but in the end,, lost everything,,,,
 rdcnorm
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 351
how would you react if your son /daughter told you they where gay
Posted: 1/13/2009 4:10:03 PM
^^^^^ Ok your angry,, at who ,, or what,, you haven't read 21 pages, and there are a lot of men and woman who support OP.. But you would rather come in shooting from the mouth before reading,, ( anger issues) ... I'd say chill and get a grip,, I did my reality check,, and my life is in order,,,well before I hit these forums, I'd suggest you do the same, as you advised us to do..
 Quazi 100
Joined: 3/2/2008
Msg: 353
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how would you react if your son /daughter told you they where gay
Posted: 1/13/2009 4:22:18 PM

Did you ever think this man lost control as well, or is it kitten who get all the breaks..

You are right Kitten may not have killed him,, I don't know.. I will suggest this,, mental and emotional stress can play havoc on the human mind, especially when he was already suffering with his sexually issues, that he confided in his wife ,, then rejected like a bad sack of potato's,,,, I would say, that man lost it all, as he was looking for help and understanding from some one he loved,, but in the end,, lost everything,,,,


At this point, Kitten gets all the breaks....she's the one that's still here.

I'm betting that she will have thought that her husband's behaviour was deviant....like MOST of society thinks of transvestites. Go out and poll 10 people on the street about transvestites....I dare you.

We're not talking about homosexuality anymore.
 rdcnorm
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 354
how would you react if your son /daughter told you they where gay
Posted: 1/13/2009 4:34:41 PM
Go out and poll 10 people on the street about transvestites....I dare you.

I'm not going judge kitten husband,, and I don't need to poll 10 people to form my own opinion, thank you very much. I have no need to make him look like the bad guy,, when Kitten has proven what she is..


Kitten gets all the breaks....she's the one that's still here.

I bet she would say that as well,, the poor guy is dead,, he can't defend himself, so why must you or anyone else judge his behavior,, I think that is wrong no matter what his sexual preference was, if indeed what Kitten says is true,, ,
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 355
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how would you react if your son /daughter told you they where gay
Posted: 1/13/2009 4:42:20 PM

I didn’t read all 21 pages of yammering and puking...................Yeah, this sounds angry. Yeah, but I wanted a little in your face thought product about this discussion.


Maybe if u had read the whole thread.......u would see there has been plenty in your face thought provoking debates going on....

So.....you're just here to stir the pot??
 Rythmn
Joined: 1/21/2006
Msg: 362
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how would you react if your son /daughter told you they where gay
Posted: 1/14/2009 1:33:07 AM
i find it strange that you've known since she was little and didn't prepare or discuss it with her. but, i did not read all of the posts, so you may have explained. one of my children thought she was gay. i took her to to billie de frank gay and lesbian center support group in san jose. they had a teen group run by a social worker, who also spent time sorting out the full range of issues with me, including post trauma. the group included gay, lesbian, transgender, bi-sexual and "questioning" teenagers. inappropriate behavior was not tolerated. . to make a long story short, by attending the group, my child decided she was not gay. mtv was confusing to her and being adopted as a teen, she had a lot of things to sort out. the gay social worker assisted her with the process.

i have no problem with a person's sexual identity or preference. i do have a problem with a child or adult, heteroxual or homsexual, who is a screw around. i also feel that depending upon where they live, these children need a lot of preparation and support for dealing with the "crazies" and hateful people of this world. that is a parent's job to do as soon as it is known or suspected.

i was born jewish. my kids are not. to me, it is more of an ethnicity than a religion. so, given my nyc sense of humor, when she thought she might be gay, i told her: " as long as she's jewish!" i got a grin out of that.

the pain that people have to go through in parts of this world for being born different is not necessary. G-d does not make junk. humans give their own interpretations of the bible and start thinking they are the appointees. how arrogant!
 Mr Bain
Joined: 12/6/2004
Msg: 365
how would you react if your son /daughter told you they where gay
Posted: 1/14/2009 4:23:42 AM
I'll worry about that when I have a son or a daughter.
 cw35
Joined: 4/8/2005
Msg: 367
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how would you react if your son /daughter told you they where gay
Posted: 1/14/2009 7:22:15 AM
kitten: Obviously a lot of people in here including myself don't agree with many of your viewpoints but nobody should be mocking the horrible thing that happened to your ex. Depression can cause a lot of suffering for everyone involved and you have my sympathies for what happened.
 rdcnorm
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 368
how would you react if your son /daughter told you they where gay
Posted: 1/14/2009 7:51:05 AM
My ex was not a homosexual but he was a transvestite. I wrote my post becuase although they are not the same thing, they are in the same category as being "different" to society.

Your point??

We all all different..so what.. as long as an individual is not causing intentional harm to another person,, that person have a right to be what ever he or she wants to be,,
The survey says, 8 out of 10 people like this or that,, so that makes the other two people different..sure it does,, but that is their right.

Not so long ago, children with disabilities weren't considered normal, they were shunned by some adults,made fun of by other children, little or no access to education, public places, all because that were different, those children just didn't fit into what society deemed as normal...

Things have changed greatly, with still a lot of progress to be made.. My point we can't ignore what is real. The reality is we are all different. Those who are truly different my see the world as, Hey I think I'm normal, why can't society see me as I am, rather than what they want me to be..

Some may suggest what I said has no bearing on being gay or what ever,, That is so far from the truth,, because in both cases acceptance by society has become more of a normal thing, (yes there are still improvements to be made).

Not that I approve or disapprove with a transvestite, that's not up to me.. but they have the God given right to be who they are,, as we all do..

edit, poster below

I have educated myself in order to help my child

I was wondering, when you say educated yourself to help your child, is that eduction a self serving purpose, meaning convince her she is wrong, or is that education to support her with her decisions.
 compleat_man
Joined: 10/3/2008
Msg: 372
how would you react if your son /daughter told you they where gay
Posted: 1/14/2009 8:15:59 AM

Poster below me you are correct all these ice cold comments made about me and my ex are far beyond BS. It is just unbelievable how cold hearted some can be.


assuming the story is true..I have my doubts..funny how you backtracked so many times..first said you'd totally 'reject' your daughter if she were gay..later amended to "wouldn't let her practice gay sex acts in your house". ..took 14 pages + for this 'story' 'explaining' your position to emerge..


so the profile saying 'married' is a lie?


your original statement that you would 'reject' your own daughter, have nothing to do with her if she were gay..sounds "cold" to me..

just me, maybe?

how can one person post so many times on one thread..?

*I* get messages saying I am at the limit after about 5 times..

are some kitties exempt?
 rdcnorm
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 374
how would you react if your son /daughter told you they where gay
Posted: 1/14/2009 8:34:05 AM

Poster below me you are correct all these ice cold comments made about me and my ex are far beyond BS. It is just unbelievable how cold hearted some can be. But ya never know God may have a plan in store for them to heat their hearts.

Yep we will never know Gods plan.. nor will we ever know yours, because the truth is, in my opinion,, I have no clue what to believe when you speak. As I had said before your logic, comes from a gab bag of choices,, as you always back peddle. I personally think you are numb to what other people feel and think. Yet your some how trying to redeem your self, at the expense of your late husband.

Unfortunately you have proven your self to be a bigot, uncaring self centered person, unfortunately for me, I'm not able to show you compassion, because I have a very difficult time believing any thing you say, any thing good that you may have said,, gets washed away by all the crap you have said in this forum and others,,
 rdcnorm
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 377
how would you react if your son /daughter told you they where gay
Posted: 1/14/2009 8:42:43 AM
Kittem said this

I personally would never accept her homosexual lifestyle, but I would never reject her as my daughter

I have to agree to this. But i wouldnt send her to church to get help I would send her to psychiatriast. I guess I'm badly against it. and if my daughter or son ever told me such a thing I would be extremely mad. And if they were adults when they told me I would tell them to seek help. Its just so wrong, in my eyes, for that kind of behavior. Maybe some cant help it. I really dont know but I have always believed it was a chioce they made on their own. It would be a choice for my child that I simply would not accept.

Op did the right thing. Its just I myself couldnt have been as easy going as op.

I saw a movie on tv of a true story that happen in real life. It was sad becuase the son was gay and told his parents. they did not accept him and threw him out of house. The boy ended up committing suicide. it was sad story. unfortuantely I guess I would be like the parents in that movie.


just read the fist line, then go to the end,, if that isn't rejection what is...
 rdcnorm
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 379
how would you react if your son /daughter told you they where gay
Posted: 1/14/2009 9:17:09 AM
kitten,
That is your problem, I could read further and I have. It's your inconsistency that make you unbelievable. You have choices in the way you present your self, you do it poorly. Your consistently inconsistent with you thoughts and opinions..

I agree there is no point in throwing things in your face,, however to be taken seriously, you may want to rethink what you write before you hit the send button..I /we only know what you write. So in my opinion, if you continue to do what you have been doing without good thought before posting comment, they will come back and haunt you..

The truth is once someone says there truth, they can defend their beliefs,,
However, when someone falsifies what they believe,, it's a constant game of catch up/lies ,, and any truth thereafter becomes more difficult to prove..and believe, therefore redemption is almost impossible until someone comes clean..and even then there will be doubt, until consistency in opinions is proven..

edit below,,
I was just trying to help you,, but you can't see it.. good luck
 compleat_man
Joined: 10/3/2008
Msg: 381
how would you react if your son /daughter told you they where gay
Posted: 1/14/2009 9:30:54 AM

I have falsified nothing.




profile: (created Oct, 2008)

Marital Status: Married



my husband committed suicide 13 months ago.


hmm, something doesn't add up..?
 rdcnorm
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 384
how would you react if your son /daughter told you they where gay
Posted: 1/14/2009 10:21:31 AM
Accept:
3. transitive verb come to terms with something: to acknowledge a fact or truth and come to terms with it


4. transitive verb endure situation: to tolerate something without protesting or attempting to change it

10. transitive verb allow somebody to join: to allow somebody to join an organization or attend an institution


11. transitive verb be welcoming to somebody: to treat somebody as a member of a group or social circle

Reject:
1. not accept something: to refuse to accept, agree to, believe in, or make use of something, e.g. because it is not good enough or not the right thing


2. turn somebody down: to decide not to give somebody something asked or applied for such as a job or membership of an organization


3. be unkind to somebody: to behave in an unkind and unfriendly way toward somebody who expects or has a right to expect love, kindness, and friendship


4. not keep something: to put something aside or throw it away

Bigot:
intolerant person: somebody with strong opinions, especially on politics, religion, or ethnicity, who refuses to accept different views

Acceptance

4. coming to terms with something: the realization of a fact or truth and the process of coming to terms with it


5. toleration: the toleration of something without protest


6. social tolerance: willingness to treat somebody as a member of a group or social circle


7. positive response to application: an offer to allow somebody to join an organization or attend an institution

1. transitive and intransitive verb feel tender affection for somebody: to feel tender affection for somebody such as a close relative or friend, or for something such as a place, an ideal, or an animal


2. transitive and intransitive verb feel desire for somebody: to feel romantic and sexual desire and longing for somebody


3. transitive verb like something very much: to like something, or like doing, something very much
I love watching old movies on TV.


4. transitive verb show kindness to somebody: to feel and show kindness and charity to somebody
love your enemies


5. transitive verb have sex with somebody: to have sexual intercourse with somebody ( dated )



Love:
noun (plural loves)

Definition:

1. passionate attraction and desire: a passionate feeling of romantic desire and sexual attraction


2. very strong affection: an intense feeling of tender affection and compassion
Young children need unconditional love.


3. romantic affair: a romantic affair, possibly sexual


4. somebody much loved: somebody who is loved romantically or sexually
He was her first real love.


5. strong liking: a strong liking for or pleasure gained from something
his love of music


6. something eliciting enthusiasm: something that elicits deep interest and enthusiasm in somebody
Music was his greatest love but he also liked ballet.


7. beloved: used as an affectionate word to somebody loved ( informal )





9. christianity God's love for humanity: in Christian belief, the mercy, grace, and charity shown by God to humanity



 Quazi 100
Joined: 3/2/2008
Msg: 385
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how would you react if your son /daughter told you they where gay
Posted: 1/14/2009 5:13:51 PM
What exactly is your point with all this stuff?

Kitten very clearly said that she was best friends with her husband, but she could not accept his lifestyle. She said that she offered to help him buy clothes....that she couldn't live with him, and wanted him to be free to live as he chose.

Kitten's issue is very complex, and I think at this point, that you're the one that isn't being compassionate.

Imagine this if you can.....

Let's call Kitten's husband Mike.....

Let's call Mike's "alter ego" Michelle....

Kitten has been married to Mike for 16 years. One day, Mike tells Kitten that he is a transvestite. Enter Michelle......

Kitten is married to Mike, but Mike now wants to be Michelle...so, who is she married to now? She is living with her husband Mike, and his "friend" Michelle.....

Kitten offers to go shopping with Mike to buy Michelle clothes.....

Another "woman" has control of Kitten's husband.

Can you see how threatening, painful, hurtful, confusing, angering, fearing that could possibly be?

Kitten has given up the aggressiveness, in her posts, and has attempted to explain her situation. She doesn't have to do that.

I have said things like.....I'd never do that! I gave it up, because I got tested a few times, and found that I didn't do what I believed I would. None of us know exactly what we would do in certain "unusual" situations.

I think it's time to lay off.
 The Artful Codger
Joined: 2/29/2008
Msg: 387
How would you react if your kid told you they were gay?
Posted: 1/14/2009 5:57:54 PM
Off Topic:
As to the poster below me I have my profile hidden so I dont know how can see it.
Members who are logged in can access your profile through the forums.

On Topic:
I would be thrilled to have proof that my kid was the rare and precious gem I thought them to be.
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 388
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how would you react if your son /daughter told you they where gay
Posted: 1/14/2009 5:58:31 PM
and Kitten has admitted she didn't know positively if he was gay......she said he kept telling her he wasn't....
so.......her homphobia can't really be based on him to begin with.
 Rythmn
Joined: 1/21/2006
Msg: 389
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how would you react if your son /daughter told you they where gay
Posted: 1/15/2009 3:46:47 AM
first, a transvestite is not gay. a transvestite is a heterosexual who wishes to "dress" like the opposite sex member-- at least as defined in my circles and as explained to me by transvestites and in the literature. sexual preference versus the wish to look like a woman, emanates from two different brain centers. in this society it is harder on men.

if women could not wear pants, et al and we all had to be super "frilly" --there would probably be way more female trannies! only some gay men wish to dress more feminine and then there are all the vice versas. again, two different brain centers. one determines sexual preference, the other determines the way one wishes to "appear" or which gender they identify with.

on top of all that, there are other issues, that are not just genetic, or brain identifed, but have to do with hormones, different innards, etc. it is way too complicated and still being researched. but to say someone is chosing a "lifestyle" is pretty damn arrogant. each of us is who we are. not everything emanates from poor impulse control.

furthermore, a person is not necessarily "homophobic" if not attracted to a trannie. maybe tranophobic? or maybe not even that! phobia implies fear and is not an indication of sexual preference in men. therefore, she is just not attracted to an effiminate appearing man. this man's choice in clothes is not a lifestyle, this is who he is.

the problem with it all, is that many people are in denial due to the criticisms of society. some "try" to not be who they are, some are in total denial until they burst forth years into adulthood, and some deliberately hide themselves from their spouses and attempt to live a lie. the unfairness to the spouse, is not being told the truth. the uunfairness to the tranny, is that most women in our society are attracted to more masculine traits, but those are nonetheless societally defined.

all this being said, many trannies find wives who are accepting. one of the top ob/gyn's i worked with back east was a tranny. he had a wife, did his best to dress like a man in public. she apparently accepted his dressing. we all would see the nail polish or this or that here and there. with friends, he confided and he had a lot of friends and saved a lot of lives.

he was lucky, he did a good job and had a wife who loved him. could i be with a tranny sexually? no. am a tranophobic? no. just not attracted to a tranny. do i feel bad for him? damn straight. i have enough trouble just being who i am, let alone adding that to my plate. not everyone gets to be a succesful ob/gyn. suicide is sadly, a last minute ditch, by many a lonely and otracized person.

sooooo, if my kid were a trannie, i'd take him to the same place as mentioned above. someone said not to force the kid there. i didn't force my daughter, she was thrilled to have people to talk to about it--besides me! the poetic justice was that a gay woman helped my daughter realize that she was not gay. if she were reading a lot of this, she'd have "chosen" gay just to make a point at that age. mtv is confusing, kids experiment moreso today than before and moreso in europe than america. if we were supportive, whatever they are would play itself out.

ok. back to quicken. just answering an email and couldn't help but put my tired two cents into the conversation. i cannot comment upon this man's wife's phobia or lack of phobia. but, it seemed like she did her best as a friend. she, at least, tried to walk her talk. many people talk very liberally , but they are not there when you need them. we need both talking and walking to be there for each other. most of us, do our best.
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 390
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how would you react if your son /daughter told you they where gay
Posted: 1/15/2009 4:42:42 AM
I love my son unconditionally it would not be an issue with me at all, i just want him to be happy and feel good with himself, period ....
 rdcnorm
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 391
how would you react if your son /daughter told you they where gay
Posted: 1/15/2009 5:13:14 AM
^^^^^^ I agree,, if my son is happy,, then I'm happy as well..
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