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 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 51
Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?Page 2 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)

Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?

Because the majority of people do not care and the power that the church once had in imposing its rules and regulations on the general public is gone and getting smaller each day.


Although this was not always the case.


Movie Censorship – A Brief History
Read this article to see how the church attempted to control the motion picture industry.

http://www.pictureshowman.com/articles_genhist_censorship.cfm
 southernlass
Joined: 5/2/2006
Msg: 52
Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 4/30/2010 11:22:31 PM

Because the majority of people do not care and the power that the church once had in imposing its rules and regulations on the general public is gone and getting smaller each day.


I disagree with you on this. I think this is what the Hollywood mentality wants us to think and the liberal media are joining them in their attempt. I don't believe that the majority of people in America "do not care." I also don't believe that what you refer to as "the church" has no merit, nor are its rules and regulations imposed out of a desire to have power over the populace. Perhaps this was the case at one time, but there are a host of churches in this country and the "rules and regulations" that many of them pose are pretty much common sense living and there is lots of wisdom contained within many of them.

Hollywood wants to put forth its own sordid, jaded, decadent image of life and imply that the majority of people are like they portray them as. I don't believe this is true; instead it's simply what they want us to think so that they can continue to influence us and drive our choices and desires. Many of the American people are naive and easily led astray, but I think that a lot of these Americans are becoming extremely tired of what's going on in our country, politically and religiously speaking. I think that many people are tired of Hollywood's shallowness, in general.

We couldn't be in a better time than we are now for a host of new Christian literature and movies to be welcomed. America is tired of the shallow life and is also learning to tighten her belt and become a little more conservative, due to being forced to thanks to the economic difficulties we've been facing.
 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 53
Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 5/1/2010 6:08:29 AM

...but there are a host of churches in this country and the "rules and regulations" that many of them pose are pretty much common sense living and there is lots of wisdom contained within many of them.

IMO
There is little to no wisdom coming from people that want to tell the rest of the world how they should live their lives. Especially when the rational for that is based on a book that is full of contradictions and stories that have been plagiarized from Egyptian Mythology.



...Many of the American people are naive and easily led astray, but I think that a lot of these Americans are becoming extremely tired of what's going on in our country, politically and religiously speaking. I think that many people are tired of Hollywood's shallowness, in general.

Agreed.

I seems that the weak ones that are easily influenced by the media are the ones that are doing most of the complaining, politically and religiously speaking.

For those I suggest less cable news and more exercise.
 Vancer
Joined: 10/29/2006
Msg: 54
Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 5/1/2010 7:31:30 AM
Hollywood, just like anything else, wants to survive. And it survives by figuring out what consumers want and then producing it. There is a lot of competition in the industry and it is the consumers over time that are deciding what is popularly produced.

I think many of us, after putting our nose to the grindstone all week, just want to spend some of the money we have earned towards some escapism. Like enjoying some fiction that gives us a break from life.

Religious doctrine has a habit of attaching a lot of burdens to ... well everything.
Who wants to see movies about that?
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 55
Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 5/1/2010 9:44:42 AM

Hollywood wants to put forth its own sordid, jaded, decadent image of life and imply that the majority of people are like they portray them as.


Actually, what Hollywood wants is to make profits ( nothing wrong with that), the more the better. If they thought they could make scads of profit by making religious themed films, then that's what they'd make.


I think that many people are tired of Hollywood's shallowness, in general.


I guess it would depend on what those people expect from a movie. I see movies to be entertained, sometimes educated.


We couldn't be in a better time than we are now for a host of new Christian literature and movies to be welcomed.


Ahhhhhhh. So when you complain about Hollywood not producing religious films, you mean "Christian" films, even thought there are numerous religons to choose from.
 southernlass
Joined: 5/2/2006
Msg: 56
Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 5/1/2010 11:58:41 AM
America is still made up of a Christian majority, so yes, I meant what I stated regarding the timing being right for Christian movies and literature. For example, let's look at a bit of data regarding the Christian movie "Fireproof."


Fireproof is a 2008 American Christian drama film by Samuel Goldwyn Films and Sherwood Pictures, directed by Alex Kendrick, who co-wrote and co-produced it with Stephen Kendrick. The film stars Kirk Cameron, Erin Bethea, Ken Bevel, Stephen Dervan, and Jason McLeod.

Reviews for the film were mostly negative, but were positive from Christian film critics[1][2]. However, the film received success at the box office, with Fireproof becoming a surprise hit[3], debuting at #4 and becoming the highest-grossing independent film of 2008, grossing over $33,000,000.[4]

It received awards from evangelical Christian organizations, including the Best Feature Film award at the 2009 San Antonio Independent Christian Film Festival. It was released on DVD on January 27, 2009.
'Fireproof' Shows Christian Movies Sell



Oct. 3, 2008

Film Starring Kirk Cameron Opened at No. 4 With $6.8M in Ticket Sales
You can almost picture the Hollywood studio execs scratching their heads.

Kirk Cameron stars in "Fireproof," a new film by the Kendricks brothers whose proceeds for the film go to their church.

(Courtesy Samuel Goldwyn Films)A film that was made for $500,000, relied more on word of mouth than television and print ads, and is headlined by an actor best known for a 1980s television show, opens at No. 4 in the country and rakes in $6.8 million in ticket sales.

"Where did this come from? We didn't see this on the radar," actor Kirk Cameron imagined the execs saying. "What is 'Fireproof?'"

After this week, few will be left wondering. The Christian-themed film, which stars Cameron as a firefighter whose marriage is on the rocks, is the latest aimed at the 80-million strong evangelical audience. And, like the instant popularity of Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin, it's a sign that the strength of the evangelical community has not waned.

"We just smiled," Cameron, the former "Growing Pains" star, told ABCNews.com, referring to himself and the filmmakers. "We knew that no one would expect it to do well."
 Vancer
Joined: 10/29/2006
Msg: 57
Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 5/1/2010 3:40:03 PM
There we go. Fireproof helps to show that Hollywood doesn't really have an agenda to reject religion. Showcasing a religious way of life in movies just gets ignored until producers can put something together that appeals to a market.

It's really about proving to the industry that the returns will be worth the investment. Even though American Graffiti isn't a religious movie, it was ignored by Hollywood execs, as they were convinced it would completely bomb. Even after screen tests, they weren't going to back it. I saw a documentary on how that movie almost never made it to the big screen.
 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 58
Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 5/2/2010 8:27:12 AM
Film Starring Kirk Cameron Opened at No. 4 With $6.8M in Ticket Sales
You can almost picture the Hollywood studio execs scratching their heads.

I can only imagine they where absolutely lost at it toping all the other great films that it was competing agianst.

Here is a list of the films that is was up agianst.

All Roads Lead Home
The Amazing Truth About Queen Raquela
Choke
Eagle Eye
Forever Strong
Humboldt County
Johnny Got His Gun
The Lucky Ones
Miracle at St. Anna
Nights in Rodanthe
Obscene
Shoot on Sight
Smother
Trainwreck: My Life as an Idiot

Does anyone remember any of those other movies? yeah me neither.

Beating these movies out for the number 4 spot would be akin to winning a medal at the special Olympics.



Although if the church wants to gain market share they should stop using people like Cameron, as the secular community knows K.C. more for these below videos and not Fireproof, ergo he is not all too smart.


A clip of Bill O'Reilly and Kirk Cameron blatantly lying to explain their religious beliefs, that has been edited to prove them wrong. Very well-done.
http://www.planetvids.com/funny-political/3755/kirk-cameron-gets-owned/


Hot Romanian Girl Takes Kirk Cameron's Book Video Apart NSFW language
http://videosift.com/video/Hot-Romanian-Girl-Takes-Kirk-Cameron-s-Book-Video-Apart
 southernlass
Joined: 5/2/2006
Msg: 59
Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 5/3/2010 12:53:57 AM
^^You cannot argue with profits taken in. The movie is very well done and the only reason you're railing against it or any Christian film, for that matter, is because of your obvious prejudice and bigoted take on all things religious. Thankfully though, many of the American people are thirsty for something decent and refreshing, for a change.

There is enough bloodlust, graphic violence, immorality, greed, and throw-away societal crap coming out of Hollywood and the media to last us a lifetime. It won't hurt society or America to be exposed to a little goodness.

Let's have a look at the Left Behind Series stats from Wiki:


In 1998, the first four books of the series held the top four slots simultaneously,[1] despite the fact that the New York Times ' Bestseller's list does not take Protestant bookstore sales into account. Book 10 debuted at number one on this list.[1] Total sales for the series have surpassed 65 million copies. Seven titles in the adult series have reached #1 on the bestseller lists for the New York Times, USA Today, and Publishers Weekly.[2]

One reason often cited for the books' popularity is the quick pacing and action. Michelle Goldberg has written that, "On one level, the attraction of the Left Behind books isn't that much different from that of, say, Tom Clancy or Stephen King. The plotting is brisk and the characterizations Manichean. People disappear and things blow up."[3] The New York Times also compared the series to Clancy's works.[4] But those views are not universally shared. Other reviewers have called the series "almost laughably tedious" and "fatuous and boring."[5][6]

In 2007 the Evangelical Christian Publishers Association (ECPA) recognized the Left Behind series at its CBA & ECPA Awards Celebration in Atlanta, Georgia with the ECPA Pinnacle Award. ECPA President Mark Kuyper said, "In many ways this series established Christian fiction as a significant category in publishing in general."[2] Jerry Falwell said about the first book in the series: "In terms of its impact on Christianity, it's probably greater than that of any other book in modern times, outside the Bible."[7]

The popularity of this series has spilled over beyond the Americas and the English-speaking world.[citation needed] It has been translated to many languages including Chinese and Japanese. There is, however, a protracted lag in translation; as of September 2005, the Chinese version of Book 11 is in the press and the Japanese version of Book 6 has been published.

In other areas, such as Europe—where dispensationalism is largely non-existent—the books have been far less successful.



An Empire of Their Own
Melani McAlister:
The conservative obsession with biblical prophecy is increasingly shaping our secular reality.

As conflict in the Middle East raged this spring, many evangelicals were afire with fears and hopes that they were witnessing the quickening of God's plan for the "end of times." The discussion, which traversed the Internet, Christian radio talk shows and church sermons, was intensified by the fortuitously timed publication of Armageddon, the latest novel in the Left Behind series.

Conceived by evangelist Tim LaHaye and written by collaborator Jerry Jenkins, Left Behind is a fictionalization of a particularly incendiary school of biblical prophecy. The eleven books published so far describe the adventures of a group of evangelical Christians who face the rise of the Antichrist, a series of terrible plagues and judgments from God called the Tribulation, the battle of Armageddon and, ultimately, the Second Coming of Jesus. Like the previous four books in the series, Armageddon debuted at number one on the New York Times and other bestseller lists. With sales of well over 40 million (not counting its graphic novels and children's books), Left Behind is a publishing juggernaut.

The series is also a cultural phenomenon that goes well beyond books. Since the eponymously titled first novel in the series was published in 1995, there have been two films, several CDs, an interactive game, mugs and T-shirts, and an impressive web presence, with many active discussion groups (including "The Prophecy Club"), fan fiction, screen-savers, etc. The Apocalypse is at the heart of a growing evangelical popular culture industry, which is aimed at the approximately one-third of Americans who claim to be evangelicals or "born again." This industry includes a rapidly expanding book market, which has major publishing houses, notably Warner Books and Bertelsmann, rushing to sign up evangelical authors for their new "Christian" imprints. Contemporary Christian music is the fastest-growing segment of the music industry. And conservative Christian films, videos, radio, national conferences and community events have evolved into mass-marketed sites for talking about evangelical concerns, from family life to weight loss to global missionary work. Instead of condemning popular culture, as they did in the past, many evangelicals are now feverishly adopting its forms to create a parallel world of entertainment, a consumer's paradise of their own. Just ten years ago, it was still a fledgling subculture; today, it is anything but.


Having carved out this distinct universe, born-again Christians are now able to find almost total product substitution for mainstream media: There are evangelical versions of everything from rock music and films to romance novels and true-life tales. Much of this sprawling cultural universe is not oriented around discussions of biblical prophecy--many committed evangelicals aren't particularly interested in the subject--but an impressive subset takes the "end times" as its subject. Novels and films are churning out an intricate set of narratives that blend fundamentalist orthodoxy and conservative politics in a nightmarish vision of the world's imminent demise. Given that a recent Time/CNN poll showed that 59 percent of Americans believe that the events in Revelation are going to come true, the extraordinary popularity of the apocalyptic Left Behind series is something to be taken seriously indeed.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20030922/mcalister/single
 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 60
Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 5/3/2010 7:17:44 AM

Let's have a look at the Left Behind Series stats from Wiki:


Ok now lets have a look at what Peter Yoonsuk Paik thinks of the whole thing.


Peter Yoonsuk Paik
Smart Bombs, Serial Killing, and the Rapture:
The Vanishing Bodies of Imperial Apocalypticism
http://bewareofthegod.com/wp-images/imperial_paik.pdf


...In section two, I provide a brief analysis of the best-selling novel series of the 1990s, Left Behind, which is based on a literalist understanding of biblical prophecy concerning the millennium. In the third section, I discuss the mode of spirituality that informs the apocalypticism which has become pervasive in American culture--a form of religiosity that has little to do with historical Christianity but is in fact far closer to the ancient heresy of Gnosticism. In the fourth section I address how the overarching themes and ideological orientation of this explicitly programmatic series of novels emerge in mainstream Hollywood cinema. I conclude with a discussion of how 2 Christian doctrines, particularly that of sacrifice, become derailed in the demonology that takes root from a system of belief far more dualistic than that of traditional Christianity.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 61
Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 5/3/2010 9:32:56 AM

There is enough bloodlust, graphic violence, immorality, greed, and throw-away societal crap coming out of Hollywood and the media to last us a lifetime.


Lots of all the same stuff in the Bible too. The Bible couldn't be shown on network television without extensive editing & sanitizing.
 southernlass
Joined: 5/2/2006
Msg: 62
Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 5/4/2010 2:13:54 AM
'Book of Eli': Huge Christian blockbuster or action movie dud?
January 13, 2010 | 4:50 pm

Who knew? I thought the "The Book of Eli," the new Denzel Washington film that opens Friday, was supposed to be part of the new wave of "The Road"-style post-apocalyptic thrillers that represented Hollywood filmmakers' underlying pessimism about the future of the world. (The film's trailer shows Washington -- wearing shades, military-style fatigues and a backpack with a nasty-looking machete -- grimly wandering the desolate landscape, the sheer desolateness of the landscape having apparently turned his hair gray.)

The early reviews have not been good. So far, the film has a lowly 23 on Rotten Tomatoes, with Entertainment Weekly's Owen Gleiberman calling it a "ponderous dystopian bummer that might be described as 'The Road Warrior' without car chases."

But wait. It turns out that the movie may end up being a huge hit in the heartland, since to hear the New York Post's Kyle Smith tell it, the film is actually a "Christian blockbuster." Smith, one of the few openly conservative critics at work today, comes up with a "Road Warrior" reference of his own, this being a movie destined to inspire all sort of comparisons to the Mel Gibson-starring 1981 futuristic classic. Except Smith sees "Eli" as being "like 'The Road Warrior' as rewritten by St. Paul."

Full of praise for the Hughes brothers-directed picture, he says that "Eli" is not only "a well-done action movie, but an overtly, unabashedly Christian one in which Denzel Washington plays a soldier of God. He's on a divinely inspired quest -- yes, a literal mission from God -- to take The Book to the West as a swarm of wrongdoers led by Gary Oldman try to stop him."


I've read enough of the Bible to know that it's a book with at least as much blood and savagery as any James Ellroy crime novel (as evidenced by the recent R. Crumb version of the Old Testament -- which is notable for being (a) literal and (b) jam-packed with violence and sex), but I'm not so sure that Middle American evangelicals will flock to see a film with so much bloody mayhem and such a grim view of the future. But Smith insists the movie is "going to do heavenly business at the box office." Is he being too optimistic? We'll be watching the film's box-office numbers this weekend -- and its all-important CinemaScore rating -- and see whether we've got a true Christian blockbuster or just another futuristic dud on our hands.




Hollywood's new plan to lure in the Christian Audience:

On Monday, an Internet report announced the development of In the Beginning, an eye-popping 3-D movie retelling of the world’s creation as depicted in the Bible. The report then mentioned, almost offhandedly, that “TV vet David Cunningham” was signed to direct the film.

After Passion of the Christ's huge success in 2004, Hollywood went crazy for the Christian audience, which normally ignored Hollywood, considering it Gomorrah West.
Twentieth Century Fox, having passed on Passion despite a first-look deal with Mel Gibson's Icon Prods., even formed the religious-film division Fox Faith in 2006, but it quickly sputtered. That same year, New Line released the $35 million The Nativity Story, which grossed only $46 million worldwide. “The assumption was that if you marketed to a Christian audience, you couldn’t help but do business,” recalls Bruce Snyder, president of domestic distribution at Fox. “Obviously, that turned out not to be the case.” The studios’ Christian initiative largely petered out, but they’ve recently become reinvigorated, and with the success of Avatar, they believe they have a new, better game plan: make religious-themed movies, but make them big, effects-packed, 3-D blockbusters, so they attract the regular moviegoing public and the heartland audience that usually shudders at the thought of Hollywood's cavalcade of sin.
Meanwhile, other studios are coming to Jesus. Or at least heaven: Warner Bros. and Legendary Pictures have begun storyboarding an adaptation of Paradise Lost, with Scott Derrickson (The Exorcism of Emily Rose), a practicing Christian, set to direct. Back at Sony, Will Smith is developing the celestial Angelology, based on the new Danielle Trussoni novel hitting bookstores this month, with Marc Foster (Finding Neverland, Quantum of Solace) in place to helm. Every studio is hoping that the angelic and biblical roots of these stories will make their films blockbusters-and-then-some, but they know from the past Christian crash that the movies also have to be entertaining. “It starts with a good story,” says Black. “You can’t lead with, ‘Let’s go after that audience.’ We bought [Fall From Grace] because of the story. We knew we’d get that evangelical audience, too, but we bought it for the story. So if the script for In the Beginning isn’t good, well, then [they’re] screwed.”

http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/03/hollywoods_new_plan_to_lure_in.html


 Vancer
Joined: 10/29/2006
Msg: 63
Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 5/4/2010 2:35:37 AM
There really is no question as to whether or not movie writers use the bible for inspiration. The Matrix trilogy, for example, was a massive metaphor of Christ's journey to bring salvation to mankind.

I think the OP was more curious about Hollywood's aversion to showing easily recognizable Christian lifestyles and values in movies.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 64
Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 5/4/2010 11:16:11 AM

The Matrix trilogy, for example, was a massive metaphor of Christ's journey to bring salvation to mankind.


Of course, the Jesus fable is just a modernized version of the Egyptian myth of Horus:

http://www.bobkwebsite.com/egyptianmythvjesusmyth.html

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread290806/pg1

The Egyptian Horus Myth Parallels to the Christian Jesus Myth
1. Horus was the son of Seb, an earthly father 1. Jesus was the son of Joseph, an earthly father
2. Horus stayed with his mother until the age of twelve 2. Jesus stayed with his mother until the age of twelve
3. Between the ages of twelve to thirty there is no record of the life of Horus 3. Between the ages of twelve to thirty there is no record of the life of Jesus in the Gospels (Matthew/Mark/Luke/John/Acts)
4. At age thirty, Horus was baptized by Anup 4. At age thirty, Jesus was baptized by John
5. By his baptism Horus was transformed into the beloved and only begotten Son of the Father, the Holy Spirit, represented by a bird 5. By his baptism Jesus was transformed into the beloved and only begotten Son of the Father, the Holy Spirit, represented by a dove/bird
 southernlass
Joined: 5/2/2006
Msg: 65
Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 5/4/2010 3:12:58 PM
I would like to know from the moderators of this site why they delete my opinion of what is "truth," but they have not deleted the following opinion that appears to be put forth as a given?

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/threadlevel.aspx?postID=10251211&ref=0&PageIndex=3
post 70


Of course, the Jesus fable is just a modernized version of the Egyptian myth of Horus:


This is not a GIVEN. This is not unrefutable truth. THIS IS OPINION, PERIOD.

Why is this left here?

THIS is also EXCLUSIVITY OF TRUTH but it's left because it's not religious and the mod is atheist or non religious. This is unfair and unreasonable moderation! If you delete my version of "of course" delete hers as well! I am sick and tired of everything I post that is my own opinion, of which I've clarified is my opinion, being deleted but you don't hold those who don't believe to the same standard!

 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 66
Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 5/4/2010 3:53:02 PM

This is not a GIVEN. This is not unrefutable truth. THIS IS OPINION, PERIOD.


As is the Bible; it isn't a GIVEN or unrefutable truth. But they shouldn't delete your post. People will have differeing views which will lead to differing opinions.
 southernlass
Joined: 5/2/2006
Msg: 67
Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 5/4/2010 4:01:48 PM
Thanks, Susan. I do appreciate this comment from you.

I realize that perspectives that favor the bible as truth for the individual are opinion and that no one can verify or prove anything in regard to its truth, or the truth of God's existence, or any other religious truth, for that matter. Everything boils down to pure perspective and opinion. Apparently though, my opinions and perspectives are considered "exclusivity of truth" while other non-religious opinions and perspectives are allowed to remain here and stand. This is extremely frustrating.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 68
Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 5/4/2010 4:06:40 PM

no one can verify or prove anything in regard to its truth, or the truth of God's existence, or any other religious truth


Which is the whole point of faith, if there were proof then faith wouldn't be needed..that some people have the necessary faith to support their beliefs is great. It only becomes a problem when some people feel that they have the right & or duty to impose their faith on others.
 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 69
Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 5/4/2010 6:23:46 PM

This is not a GIVEN. This is not unrefutable truth. THIS IS OPINION, PERIOD.

First, Unrefutable is not a real word so I can only assume you meant to say irrefutable.

Everything is post #70 is 100% true and has been proven.

Those things and many other similarities are very well documented and that information is irrefutable.



...It only becomes a problem when some people feel that they have the right & or duty to impose their faith on others.

Agree.

Which is why Hollywood needs to stick with a profit based agenda and not a religious one.


p.s. Religulous , great movie, two thumbs up.
 southernlass
Joined: 5/2/2006
Msg: 70
Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 5/4/2010 7:51:17 PM
It only becomes a problem when some people feel that they have the right & or duty to impose their faith on others.


It becomes a problem when you claim that "of course" religion is fable and its deemed that this is somehow not imposing your non belief onto me. What hypocrisy this is --

It's my perspective that there's a blind spot to blatant hypocrisy contained within these unhallowed cyber walls, and I challenge anyone here to a real debate where they can't hide behind this same hypocrisy and delusion. Obviously this debate will not be able to take place here. I'll meet you on ground that has no bias -- attempting to debate anything under these conditions is just stupid.

 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 71
Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 5/6/2010 4:50:45 PM
It becomes a problem when you claim that "of course" religion is fable and its deemed that this is somehow not imposing your non belief onto me...

It does not matter what is real or not.

What matters is, people telling other people what or what they should or should not do, which includes but not limited to dictating what Hollywood should create.

I could not care less what people think or do, until they start telling others, then I have an issue with it.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 72
Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 5/6/2010 5:09:48 PM

It only becomes a problem when some people feel that they have the right & or duty to impose their faith on others.


It becomes a problem when you claim that "of course" religion is fable and its deemed that this is somehow not imposing your non belief onto me. What hypocrisy this is


So, if you happen to say to me "I believe in God", that's OK and it isn't pushing your beliefs on me; but if I say "I'm an atheist & think God is a fable/myth" that's pushing my beliefs on you ??

Stating I'm an atheist & view religons as fables or myths is stating my belief, which I am entitled to, it isn't imposing my belief on you. I suppose you'd prefer that we atheists just keep our mouths shut & don't offend the sensibilities of those with faith? It don't work that way, I'm as entitled to my belief & making my belief known as anyone of faith.

If we did happen to meet in person & you were to say to me "I'm a Christian, what's your faith?" I'd merely reply that I'm an atheist. That's all that needs to be said; but at that point if you then start trying to "help me see the error of my ways & attempt to save my soul" it's then I will get my bristles up & start calling your religious faith a fable.
 themadfiddler
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 73
Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 5/7/2010 12:53:41 AM


It becomes a problem when you claim that "of course" religion is fable and its deemed that this is somehow not imposing your non belief onto me. What hypocrisy this is --


Actually, you'll never believe me agreeing with you but you have a point here. While "imposing" non-belief isn't the choice of words I would make, the sentiment is the same...the seeming double standard of exclusivity of truth.

In fact, you are well within your rights, in this particular forum, to point out any insistence upon the materialistic worldview as the single exclusive truth without stating as a caveat that it is opinion as a violation of the letter and spirit of the rules of "Preaching" as outlined in the rules for the religion forum...that is if and only if we are not talking about matters of natural law or historic fact.

FYI/FAQ - Religion/Supernatural Forum

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts7666528.aspx

If we are talking about matters that pertain to faith in or belief in God and non-physical things that cannot be observed or tested, then they have to state opinion based on it and can neither prove nor disprove its existence using reason.

By that same token, they are well within their rights to state certain things with factual certainty.

For example:

God does not spin the earth around the sun. The force of gravity does that in accordance with the laws of motion. One may believe that God or gods do that or trigger natural forces to do that. A scientific/naturalistic viewpoint cannot say with utter certainty they do not, but they do not have to as the burden of proof always falls on the person making a claim. And when a perfectly good and easily testable naturalistic explanation exists, there is no need to posit a supernatural one.
A materialist cannot deny that religion can and does make positive change in peoples lives, social groups, family bonds, spiritual consciousness and psychology (for good or bad). And in fact they will be quick to note both good and bad changes.

So if you think you have a legitimate case in a current thread, report it. The mods will sort it out according to the exact letter of the law. But they don't tolerate the kind of protest posts you have made suggesting biased rulings and may tend not to take you seriously...that might have been a bad move on your part? But if you have a legit beef they will take it seriously...

Just sayin
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 74
Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 5/7/2010 9:56:06 AM

It becomes a problem when you claim that "of course" religion is fable and its deemed that this is somehow not imposing your non belief onto me. What hypocrisy this is --

Actually, you'll never believe me agreeing with you but you have a point here. While "imposing" non-belief isn't the choice of words I would make, the sentiment is the same...the seeming double standard of exclusivity of truth.


Still, I don't see how merely stating my belief that religion is a fable/myth is "imposing" my views on anyone, anymore than someone saying they're Christian (or Wiccan, Buddhist, Muslim etc) is imposing their belief on me.
 themadfiddler
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 75
Why religious way of life excluded in Hollywood's America?
Posted: 5/7/2010 12:57:22 PM
You can see the language as applied in the rules. It uses reason most effectively to deal with things provable and non-provable so that in the context of a religious discussion you MAY say "it is my opinion that based on available knowledge, religious beliefs are fables" and that this is not an imposition of non-belief.

But coming into the Religion/Supernatural forum and swinging that around repeatedly could be, in effect, just as much a case of preaching and working the floor as any preacher in the science forums...it all depends on the context. And anti-theistic trolling in here could be just as easily moderated if it is out of place in a given thread topic. That's why there is a specific forum for these types of discussions.

One is welcome to take up a contrary position but it has to be done in a manner that has a certain amount of dialectical decorum. Usually both sides forget this and the moderator has to clean up the resulting mess and or burn damage from the flame war.
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