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 molly__blooming
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 102
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The instant chemistry demandPage 3 of 25    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25)
hey dallas flier,
interestingly was just discussing something similar on another site today.
it's an interesting question.
i think one of the real issues in online dating is peoples' sense that there must be exactly what you describe, an instant chemistry thing, which i suppose means an instant certainty that you are attracted to this person and "into" them.
that's a problem because it takes time, imho, to get to know a person and thus to know whether or not you're into them or "feeling" them in that way.
one of the things that happens in online dating (and i might be guilty of this myself, dunno) is that people write each other off instantly (for lots of reasons, some of which are silly and small and unimportant) so that what ends up happening is that they find themselves interminably single and wondering why.
it's just one of the many things about online dating that makes me feel it just doesn't work...
better to meet someone spontaneously and unexpectedly so that you are both just being yourselves and being "real."
ciao.
~merf.
 celts123
Joined: 5/15/2008
Msg: 104
The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 6/30/2008 8:21:49 PM
I don't believe in wasting a man's time or money, I know within 5 seconds if the spark is there.


As stated by myself and other posters on this thread / other similiar threads etc, the only things you can determine within 5 seconds or even within 5 minutes are pure physical attraction and maybe some obvious dealbreakers.
 lateef7842
Joined: 4/14/2008
Msg: 107
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The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 6/30/2008 9:09:20 PM

I find it interesting, reading through this thread that it seems to be mainly the men who are saying "give more than chemistry a chance" or that "initial chemistry must = lust".


Thats because most men learn from the missteps they make in their dating lives. If a man meets a woman that he has instant "chemistry" with and that relationship turns out badly, the next woman, and every women after that he takes his time with. Whether he feels a spark for her or not. Plus, he will give women that he previously found boring more of chance to shine.

Some people (men and women) are boring as hell when you first meet them because they are shy. As they get to know a person is when they open up and begin to be fun to hang out with. The more they come out of their shells, the more attractive they become. Just relying on that "spark" will cause you to miss that.


It doesn't need to necessarily be some kind of crazy thunderbolt our-eyes-met-across-a-crowded-room kind of thing....but there definitely has to be some kind of sexual chemistry for me.


Yeah. 'Cause sexual chemistry is something everlasting. Bodies change, people change. Some of us get tired of having sex with the same person over and over again. By your logic, when your body changes and there is no longer any "sexual chemistry" for the person you're with decides to find a younger version of you, then that should be OK.

Now, I'm just picking on you with that one. But, the point I'm trying to make is sexual chemistry is something changes or may leave altogether. And, I'm not talking about someone you find repulsive or unattractive. I'm talking about those people you say, "He's/ She's cute but not my type" or something like it. With that said, eliminating someone just because you wouldn't have sex with them on the outset may not be the best move.

Lateef
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 112
The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 6/30/2008 10:40:16 PM

think the proof is in the pudding. Most of the people who are basing their relationships on "chemistry" are citing multiple relationships as proof that it works ...lol Hello, you are, by your own words, showing how "chemistry" doesn't work in the long term.

And about 80% (guestimation) of those posting here don't believe in it and many of them (or even most of them) are single as well. Go figure!!! (In addition, I said it happened to me ONE time, I've had more than one relationship. Must have missed the chemistry part, because he was my LAST and BEST relationship.)
 WeAre1
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 113
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The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/1/2008 4:59:20 AM
I just wanted to give a thanks to realzenartist for his pasting Kanika Goswami's information, insights and wisdom in message 88.
It is thee most interesting and useful thing I've read on the forums over this last year. Thanks for sharing it!
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 114
The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/1/2008 5:07:58 AM
I think most men tend to develop attraction over time and most women sort of know within about 8 minutes if they're into you. Perhaps a lot of women assume men do the same...so they figure it's fair to say that.

I see a ton of threads about a guy with a female friend that he's known for YEARS, and became attracted to. This isn't a common occurence with women (unless we already had an attraction in the beginning and just didn't act on it).

I'm not looking for anything, really - but if I meet a guy and don't have any "lust" or "spark" for him in the first 5 minutes - then it's not ever gonna be there, so whether there's chemistry beyond lust there or not is sort of an irrelevant point.

If he's compatible with me in all other ways, but there's no attraction - then there's nowhere for it to go. I have NEVER grown into an attraction to anyone in my life. If it's gonna be there at all, it's there right from the beginning.
 heartseekertrue
Joined: 6/24/2008
Msg: 116
The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/1/2008 5:16:36 AM
Thats honesty: waste not anyones time unless you have the true desire to invest further time and emotional equity.

What i believe is being missed by some here...is that "attraction" is not exclusively visual/physical.
We humans are far more complex than that. Heart, mind, body....each need calls to be fulfilled.
Listen to the inner voice, that will never steer you wrong.
You may lie to your heart, but truly, if you listen, your heart cannot lie.
....the body might desire; the mind might assent rationally that these 2 needs can be easily fulfilled.
But the heart, silent, screams in unheard whisper. Do you hear it?
seek to hear...and answer the heart. The other two...will be strangely...also fulfilled...
 heartseekertrue
Joined: 6/24/2008
Msg: 119
The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/1/2008 8:13:40 AM
Yup!!!
and i think...we dont even entertain that further consideration...unless the subconscious trigger has been pulled. or not..
just my tuppence...
 Green Sangha
Joined: 3/12/2008
Msg: 120
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The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/1/2008 8:52:42 AM
What a great topic! I agree with you, DallasFlier, that chemistry can grow over time. Those who dismiss someone because it isn't there the instant you meet have misplace priorities and are pretty shallow. While there has to be a certain "click" that says I am interested in you, it doesn't have to be a big rush of sexual excitement, just and opening of a door to possibilities.

I find some of the best connections I've had are where that evolved over a few weeks of dating. The disastrous relationships I've had have always been where I leapt at the first blush of sexual excitement and stayed longer than I should because of it. That energy is about strictly chemical attraction and can be very misleading.

Still, of the men I've met from online meet-ups I would say they decide right away if you are attractive in the way they want. I've had the feeling as a guy walked toward me that he had made up his mind by the time he reached me, before we had even talked. Sheesh, I'm certainly attractive enough not to deserve THAT kind of behavior.

I do think men usually - not always - make more instantaneous decisions about attraction or attractiveness. Yes, I know there are shallow women out there also, but studies have shown that the visual cortex of a man's brain is more active than a woman's. Hence men are more visually cued than women. I have found this to be the case in regard to my women friends who all have a wide range of men whom they have found attractive - different body types and features. Of course, a man can learn through experience that this hard-wiring of his brain is not the whole truth and I've known men who will take time to get to know a woman whom they aren't instantly attracted to but whom they end up finding attractive.
 Green Sangha
Joined: 3/12/2008
Msg: 121
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The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/1/2008 9:27:09 AM
People have touched on this but I think that chemistry is multi-faceted whereas lust is strictly sexual. General attraction and chemistry is a feeling of excitement and opening up. It includes feeling rapport, a certain familiarity, curiosity, a sense of comfort, and it can include sexual attraction as one component. But the sexual piece can emerge a bit later while the more nebulous sense of overall attraction and receptiveness to the the person which comes from a complex interaction of factores has to come right away. It is the feeling of excitement at meeting this person that most of us need to feel right away in order to continue. I often refer to it as an opening to possibility and the excitement comes in part from not knowing what is going to happen but having the desire to find out. Add to this all of a person's longings and hopes, their previous history in love and their family history and you have the stuff that fuels lust. While we need some lust, a real relationship is built on all the other stuff that comes with relating to another person.
 haywiresue
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 122
The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/1/2008 9:27:25 AM
Excellent Thread and its been great reading to enjoy with coffee as here in Canada we celebrate "Canada Day", to my US acquantances I hope you will enjoy your Fourth of July Weekend.

Back on topic.......as dating is all about preferences and totally subjective, its hard to figure out what "chemistry" means to each different person, when different people are looking for different things. For the person seeking sexual conquests, then lust could be the definition. For someone wanting "arm candy" to be seen with, the definition would be all about looks/priviledge/success. If someone is lonely and desperate, the definition would be "alive and breathing". All definitions are correct.

I have noticed that people get carried away with the speed of light that this environment of email and instant messaging provides. It takes time to know someone and in the course of a few days, we become very familiar with a stranger and begin to create an "image" in our minds that reality has no way to match in person. So, I think as wonderful as this medium is, its a double edged sword, and can be defeating as well.

I believe that there has to be a mix of physical attraction, character attraction, intellegence attraction, and comfort level determined by that first face to face meeting. From there you can decide to continue and see if there is compatability and mutual desire to spend more time together, in having that first date. In my mind, every great relationship started from that first face to face meeting, open and honest expectations from each person, and the mutual desire to move forward. I think its more about finding someone with the same interests/desires that you seek.
 heartseekertrue
Joined: 6/24/2008
Msg: 123
The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/1/2008 9:32:16 AM
Happy Bussking Day my friend! Ottawa...too many years ago...


as wonderful as this medium is, its a double edged sword, and can be defeating as well.

Yup, we oft get to expect immediate, electronic instant mouseclick gratification. have some of us even forgotten to laugh?
spelling instead L-O-L even in face to face conversation?
aint it just a bit more involved and messy than a mere scroll and click....
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 127
The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/1/2008 12:40:39 PM
I agree Crazycurlz - yes men do that too. I think the men that do that are pretty much looking for a quickie tho. Men who are looking for more long term are more apt to become attracted to someone over time.

I think they mean love at first sight.

Ick...I don't. Assuming I can actually find someone I like enough to even date, and they even pan out that long with no dealbreakers after the fact, it takes me at LEAST six months to fall for someone, and another year to deal with the fact that I did or tell him I did.

I think it's more like the initial attraction/lust (and actual chemistry which is that lust combined with the ease of communication and being comfortable around someone - the feeling that a person "gets" you, an effortless exchange).

I believe you can fall in love with someones looks at first sight but never the person. It can take a very long time to get to know someone fully.

Of course it takes a long time to know someone fully. That has nothing to do with the initial "jolt" you get from someone you're attracted to. And it keeps getting repeated and then ignored, but attraction ALONE does not a relationship make. OBVIOUSLY you should use your common sense and look beyond attraction to see if there's anything else there worth knowing.

Some of the best looking women I have met have turned out to be the most selfish, self centered and hard to live with people I have ever met !

I refer Falling Ember's post in another thread - if you found physically attractive women to be that way, you got involved before you looked deep enough. You got carried away with hormones and didn't use your head. It's no wonder you (and anyone else who stopped at looks alone and accepted it as a package to get involved with) discovered that.

Give me an average looker with a heart of gold anyday.
Not all unattractive people are wonderful and not all attractive people are terrible. Both attractive and wonderful can be possible in the same person, if you have the patience to wait, the perseverance to hold out for what you want and the common sense to do your homework.
 heartseekertrue
Joined: 6/24/2008
Msg: 132
The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/1/2008 1:18:59 PM

Despite some poster's talking about all the "stuff" that our brain processes from touch, smell, taste, etc etc etc - I'm sorry, you don't process all that "stuff" in the first 5 seconds


Dallas, that would be me...dont waffle lol!
...don't fear science; it asks intelligent questions, then questions the answers, and tries again.
Summarily tossing out hypotheses that so far have been borne out by empirical research because they don't agree with preconceived conclusion....whether lofty treatise or well grounded research...is not conducive to further understanding. Here's a bit of fodder for thought for those curious...There have been numerous attempts to quantify differences in capability between the human brain and computers. According to Hans Moravec, by extrapolating from known capabilities of the retina (a singular input sensor; how does the brain handle the uncounted myriad of input simultaneously?) to process image inputs, a brain has a processing capacity of 0.1 quadrillion instructions per second (100 million MIPS).
The following four simultaneous forces act upon the brain in shaping its ability and to change and ultimate capability;
1. Social brain; Human cultures teach children what to believe and what to expect in life, interact with cell biology and molecular genetics to assemble the highly social human brain.
2. Genetic blueprint; Everyone’s brain begins with a basic scaffold of connectivity that is formed genetically.
3. Experience modification; Experience alters brain structure, chemistry and gene expression to sculpture immature neural circuits into adult circuitry.
4. Brain direction; In everyday life the brain directs people’s activities, while the activities themselves shape the brain throughout life.

Some brains are NOT as plastic, and cognition itself can become either "concrete" or non-existent, relying only on those previously indoctrinated truths.

Unfortunately, man believes that he is naturally intelligent and that he acts intelligently at all times. He does not recognize that all of his social interaction is instinct (intuition) driven. Nor does he recognize that many of his instincts are archaic and only partially applicable. Nor does he recognize that whereas logic and reason would always result in uniform behavioral action, the normal divergence in instincts across the gene pool of the human, will always produce divergent answers for the same behavioral questions. Where his genetically provided behavioral tendencies ie instincts, fit the particular social problem, he functions well, but since he is unable to sense the dividing line between his instinctive (intuition, reactive decision summation) and logical reasoning, he usually substitutes intuition, imagination and conjecture or prejudice for logic, reason, and creative intelligence. Then he swears to its authenticity by virtue of his 'construct of intelligence'.

Its a sticky wicket; but suffice to conjecture, the capability is astounding, unfortunately sometimes thwarted....

i posted earlier about these factors having confounding issues re: hygiene, depilation, artificial scents, culture, dialect, genetics/race/gender....among others.
No...my brain is not fooled by perfume..because scent is only ONE of the thousands of factors the brain instantaneously gauges. Yes, that "white linen-wafting alluring blonde in the black gown" who just waltzed by me undoubtedly immediately gets my attention FIRST INSTINCTIVELY, then intuitively, THEN cognitively.......so i assess further. Provided I have similarly "tripped" HER trigger, she is available and searching, and i pass her immediate cognitive approval.

I think MOST if not ALL longitudinally satisfying relationships BEGIN right there.
Some amazing live 4d brain scan functional MRI's bear a lot of this out...

I agree with you more than you allow; it DOES take some time to delve into those other factors that one must live with a particular selected potential life partner.

sorry about the long post...its is an in depth and fascinating field. Hardly can be even given cursory appraisal herein. But some of us...just must try!

cheers, and happy fishin ya'll!
 celts123
Joined: 5/15/2008
Msg: 135
The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/1/2008 2:10:24 PM

so, OP, men make instant judgments too...pretending they don't is delusional.


Yes some men expect instant chemistry as well. But whenever there is a thread about this topic, it seems like a higher percentage of women will state that they want instant chemistry.
 hunt1683
Joined: 3/4/2008
Msg: 137
The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/1/2008 7:44:45 PM
Wow.

Well written and extremely informative. I think we all develop blueprints over time and that odor/smell is the unique fingerprint that makes the attraction so unique and stimulating. That is truly chemistry in its rawest form and keeps us yearning for that bound.

I have had and been told by women there is instant chemistry within the first five minutes, primarily because it initailly matches the mental blueprint in our minds. This can deterioirate if there are personality clashes, which happen quite often. But, the blueprint and some of that attraction remains.
 hunt1683
Joined: 3/4/2008
Msg: 138
The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/1/2008 7:56:43 PM
I agree with you entriely

It is what it is, simply put

We all have different templates, but they are there!
 realzenartist
Joined: 5/11/2008
Msg: 140
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The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/2/2008 6:35:12 AM
Dallas .. great post thanks.. I think you really nailed the first 5 second bit. Almost all the women Ive had any relations/relationships with when asked stated that what first attracted them to me was my smile.All the other came after.
 heartseekertrue
Joined: 6/24/2008
Msg: 143
The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/2/2008 8:52:11 AM

lack of chemistry than for actual chemistry. If I feel I could never be attracted or charmed by someone, then I don't feel a need to pursue anything. Yes, I'm looking for a certain spark


well said. i believe it surely involves the same decision; based from our instincts, intuition, subconscious dictates.

To exclude...or include...a potential...
i believe arises from that mystery.
can we explain "love"?
people we'd never imagine "right" together...going 60 years?
people we think "perfect"..in abject emotional bankruptcy?

our decisions are usually less calculating and rational than we imagine.
even for the "gold digger" when the gold tarnishes, and the mine grows old, where's the love? She may have convinced herself awhile.

even for the jet setter...seeking penultimate ego-stroking arm candy.
At the end of the day...an empty heart.

but..those in tune with the "heart".... and some of its cues...may make decisions that engender true love..if but also only a while.
no guarantees...in any of it.
 cw35
Joined: 4/8/2005
Msg: 144
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The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/2/2008 8:55:00 AM
Instant chemistry is a farce. It takes time to develop REAL attraction. The whole instant chemistry thing is for teenagers. Anyone who demands "instant chemistry" has the IQ of a cabbage and you should ignore them and move on. I've been in love but never felt this "chemistry" bull. I think it's a line women use most of the time when they think they're too good for you.
 Merrylass
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 149
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The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/2/2008 6:56:03 PM
Zowie - this thread moved fast!


I think PoF would be well served to have a "Chemistry" data field like "Do you have children." Choices could be "Under 5 mins" and "5 mins or more" - that would allow users to filter people by chemistry. On attempting contact, folks with incompatible views on chemistry would then see something like "You must want chemistry in under 5 mins to contact this user" - should save heartburn on both sides, I would hope.


AMEN, hurray, standing ovation, riotious applause!!!

Dallas, I completely agree with you and have enjoyed the posts of Lateef, ItsMargo, and SerenityBreeze.

heartseekertrue, I'll deal with you in a bit.

For starters, it's more than clear that semantics is the issue here. People define 'chemistry' very differently and all cling to their definitions as though they were blessed by Webster & Co. Perhaps it would be better to try for a series of threads and being explicit about your definition of 'chemistry' for each one.

As to various statements made:


***all my relationships*** were always formed from an almost instant connection in person
(my emphasis)
LOL - irony, much?


the body is a horrible piece of equipment because you are so often physically attracted to the mentally imbalanced and truly stupid.


now there's wisdom!


Chemistry is not a guarantee for success, but the lack thereof is an indicator for certain failure.

Not having 'instant chemistry' does not mean there will never be chemistry. That's one of the main problems with this 'instant chemistry' theory.


But you assume it's a choice. It isn't....I simply cannot become interested in a man as a potential mate if I don't lust after him. And my experience is that if it isn't there right away, it's never going to be.



I'm sorry, maybe it works for some people, but it's never really worked for me that I meet someone, have no physical attraction whatsover, but think that "chemistry" might grow further down the road.

And in my experience, if it isn't there right away it absolutely can develop over time - and that sort is *much* stronger than the type that happens instantly.


I see a ton of threads about a guy with a female friend that he's known for YEARS, and became attracted to. This isn't a common occurence with women.

Did you do a study of all women that you can present this conclusion? I disagree because it happened to me so there's your data skewed already.


WE WANT A PICTURE.... NO ,WE NEED ONE


If you think a photo accurately represents a person, then your thinking is seriously flawed.


if you don't have the physical attraction, then you've got yourself a companion. if you have the physical attraction, but not friendship, then that's just lust. lust you know immediately, friendship takes time. bringing the two together is the hard part.


Again, it's not about *never* having physical attraction; physical attraction can and will develop over time if you find other commonalities - but you must give it time to happen. And, no, lust you don't know immediately. I'd have missed out very badly had I allowed that fallacy to govern my behaviour. For me, I have to be attracted intellectually for lust to have a chance and you can't determine someone's brainpower in a couple of seconds or minutes.


the CHOICE to entertain a further relationship sufficient time to develop...is itself based on an immediate decision.

Not even that. I will allow for 'intuition' and 'gut feeling' because I have had those and the 'bad vibes' I got initially from people were inevitably true. However, that's a rare experience and none of the people I may not have had 'instant chemisty' with but developed chemistry with later didn't generate the 'bad' vibe. I don't argue that you try to battle a 'bad vibe' if you get it, however people you may be indifferent to initially can grow on you surprisingly.

It seems you're now saying that a choice to continue to get to know someone happens instantly. Again, no. If your immediate reaction is repulsion, then maybe you won't give it a chance, but seriously, how often does that happen. Sometimes you're taken with someone but more often than not you are indifferent and need to give it a chance to see if something develops.



The following four simultaneous forces act upon the brain in shaping its ability and to change and ultimate capability;
1. Social brain; Human cultures teach children what to believe and what to expect in life, interact with cell biology and molecular genetics to assemble the highly social human brain.
2. Genetic blueprint; Everyone’s brain begins with a basic scaffold of connectivity that is formed genetically.
3. Experience modification; Experience alters brain structure, chemistry and gene expression to sculpture immature neural circuits into adult circuitry.
4. Brain direction; In everyday life the brain directs people’s activities, while the activities themselves shape the brain throughout life


And therefore in these discussions about 'chemistry', we see that some people operate on 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 or combinations of the above and that some folks stick to 1 and 2 and never let 3 and or 4 mitigate the effects of 1 & 2


He does not recognize that all of his social interaction is instinct (intuition) driven. Nor does he recognize that many of his instincts are archaic and only partially applicable.

Right. But those of us who have become informed about the vagaries of our animal instincts can bring the more evolved bits of the brain into play and reason with the bits that are trying to tell us that there's 'chemistry' with someone.


Still, of the men I've met from online meet-ups I would say they decide right away if you are attractive in the way they want

That has been my situation. Worse, I spent time in email or on the phone discussing chemistry and friendship and that I don't believe in chemisty and want to start slowly and see if we can manage friendship first and they agree on the phone.
Then, when we meet, they say that they're really 'romantics' and believe in 'instant chemistry' and pretty much were hoping it would happen to us both and that somehow I'd become a convert to their way of thinking. GRRRRR.

Too bad all the people who share Dallas' opinion (and mine) live too far away and/or are too young for me.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 150
The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/2/2008 7:19:19 PM
"I see a ton of threads about a guy with a female friend that he's known for YEARS, and became attracted to. This isn't a common occurence with women."

Did you do a study of all women that you can present this conclusion? I disagree because it happened to me so there's your data skewed already.

Nowhere in that quote did I indicate there was an absolute on that...I said "not common". I didn't say "impossible".

You're not skewing anything. All you're proving is that you're one of the few that CAN become attracted to someone over time and lose the revulsion. Doesn't make you right or anyone who can't wrong, it just makes you different.

My point is that I PERSONALLY cannot do that, and I know this about myself based on past experience. I know men seem to do this more than women, but not all men will develop attraction over time, and not all women won't. IME (meaning me, not anyoe else) it seems to be that men tend to do it one way and women another.
 Merrylass
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 151
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The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/2/2008 8:14:31 PM
I don't think any generalization can be drawn. All we have is anecdotal evidence.
 ExplosiveSheep
Joined: 9/22/2007
Msg: 153
The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/3/2008 1:33:21 AM
Chemistry doesn't seem to make any sense to me, some really hot girls make me want to smash my face into the dirt, some hella average girls I can't stop thinking about, sometimes it's a killer personality, sometimes it's just the right fit at the right time with the right look, but never have I ever been able to pin it down to any one thing. I've known smart matches that haven't done it for me, bad matches that I seem to just love being around, and everything in between/opposite.
 cw35
Joined: 4/8/2005
Msg: 154
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The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/3/2008 4:57:43 PM
I totally agree Explosive. So called "hot" girls are usually a major turn off. Most of them always seem to have a constant sour look which either makes you want to turn around and run or deck them. Maybe when you're too nice looking it causes some kind of pain or something. lol
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