Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > The Science of Global Warming      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 on a wire
Joined: 6/21/2008
Msg: 351
view profile
History
The Science of Global WarmingPage 15 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)
My point is that those bogs weren't always frozen...
 Thorb
Joined: 7/15/2005
Msg: 352
The Science of Global Warming
Posted: 11/4/2009 3:51:57 PM
As for the math of the oceans rising ... its been done.
they only use the ice on islands and continents like Greenland ... named to attract settlers away from Iceland which was a much better place to live.

As the ice melts from Greenland and Antarctica the continents also rise from lack of weight on them and this too ads to the rise in sea levels.
The math was done years ago so maybe its no good because its old math.

ignorance is bliss so let's all be happy
 gamin
Joined: 10/29/2009
Msg: 353
The Science of Global Warming
Posted: 11/12/2009 8:57:31 PM
There is no global warming.

And even if there was we aren't causing it.

And maybe it's a good thing anyway. It would be nice if Ottawa didn't get so cold every winter.

The earth goes through these cycles all the time so why worry?

It's just a scam for a bunch of industry pressure groups to make more money and gain political power.

Scientists enjoy scaring people.

The earth is flat.

All is well.

Keep running your SUV.
 quietcowboy
Joined: 12/25/2007
Msg: 354
view profile
History
The Science of Global Warming
Posted: 11/18/2009 5:22:36 PM
Here is a new article about atmospheric carbon levels versus global warming. Looks like a legitimate study:

http://www.dailytech.com/Carbon+Levels+are+Soaring+But+Temperature+Isnt+Necessarily+Keeping+Pace/article16861.htm
 ForeverLong
Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 355
view profile
History
The Science of Global Warming
Posted: 11/18/2009 8:05:36 PM
It's more about politics than anything else. Ice ages have occurred several times, and much warmer periods when there were hardly any people on the earth. It's pretty arrogant to think we can control the climate. All it takes is a big volcanic eruption, activity of the sun, or an asteroid impact to change the climate immediately. Whatever we can do is too little, it's like throwing stones into the ocean and expect it to have a measurable effect on the waves.
 FairyHealer
Joined: 9/3/2007
Msg: 356
view profile
History
The Science of Global Warming
Posted: 11/19/2009 6:22:13 PM
It doesn’t take a scientist or a genius to realize that “pollution” has negative effects not only for the planet, but also for everything that exists on the planet. Therefore reducing such “pollution” would have a positive effect on the planet and it’s inhabitants.

But, can pollution change the temperature of the Earth and is it responsible for all these changes?

There are all kinds of talk about this being “truth” on TV. What I don’t see mentioned on TV or in the news anywhere is that “Our Whole Solar System Is Changing.” Surely we aren’t responsible for this ….but what is? Could it be the Sun?

The following info is from a paper by Richard C. Hoagland & David Wilcock published in 2004.

http://www.enterprisemission.com/_articles/05-14-2004/Interplanetary_1.htm

The entire solar system - not just our one small planet -- is currently undergoing profound, never-before-seen physical changes.

Here are some highlights:

Sun: More activity since 1940 than in previous 1150 years, combined
Mercury: Unexpected polar ice discovered, along with a surprisingly strong intrinsic magnetic field … for a supposedly “dead” planet
Venus: 2500% increase in auroral brightness, and substantive global atmospheric changes in less than 30 years
Earth: Substantial and obvious world-wide weather and geophysical changes
Mars: “Global Warming,” huge storms, disappearance of polar icecaps
Jupiter: Over 200% increase in brightness of surrounding plasma clouds
Saturn: Major decrease in equatorial jet stream velocities in only ~20 years, accompanied by surprising surge of X-rays from equator
Uranus: “Really big, big changes” in brightness, increased global cloud activity
Neptune: 40% increase in atmospheric brightness
Pluto: 300% increase in atmospheric pressure, even as Pluto recedes farther from the Sun
None of these statistics are from “fringe” scientists; they are all very, very real, and what you have just read is only the proverbial “tip of the iceberg.”

The article was fascinating and offers something you won’t find on the 11 o’clock news.

Peace, the FairyHealer
 Thorb
Joined: 7/15/2005
Msg: 357
The Science of Global Warming
Posted: 11/19/2009 8:24:03 PM
the truth of the matter ... is we have to prepare
psychologically if not physically for the changes
nothing ever stays the same and we cannot predict the future very well
so like good scouts
be prepared.

as for running out of oil .... not in our liftime... but the grandkids might need to save it for bettter things than just burning it.
 quietcowboy
Joined: 12/25/2007
Msg: 358
view profile
History
The Science of Global Warming
Posted: 11/22/2009 6:01:14 AM
Another article about "the science of global warming":

http://www.dailytech.com/Climategate+Stunning+Deception+and+Misconduct+at+UK+Warming+Research+Center+Revealed/article16889.htm
 Thorb
Joined: 7/15/2005
Msg: 359
The Science of Global Warming
Posted: 11/22/2009 3:42:59 PM
lots of back and forth ... and accusations of bad science.
general consensus is that its happening
the actual cause is a bit mute
can we stop it or slow it down ?
not too likely ... so let's prepare.

the carbon tax thing ... well I do see that as just another numbers game that won't actually fix anything except some guys pay check.

if we worry about the poisonous pollution ... that is probably good enough and also probably won't get done very well.

I see the carbon footprint as a way of trying to pass the blame onto the individual and take it off the corporate machines.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 360
The Science of Global Warming
Posted: 11/29/2009 10:10:26 PM
@ Thorb

I see the carbon footprint as a way of trying to pass the blame onto the individual and take it off the corporate machines.

BINGO!!
 AncientMuse
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 361
view profile
History
The Science of Global Warming
Posted: 11/29/2009 11:42:19 PM
Here's the 'big elephant in the room' for me with AGW and why I'm a skeptic :

The huge assumption of positive water vapour feedback and the lack of understanding of cloud formation and its role as a negative feedback in the overall mechanism of climate.

How are clouds formed exactly ?
Are they a negative feedback ?
And if so, how dominant is it ?
Does one feedback cancel out the other ?
Are we observing more cloud formation now ? Or less ?
And so on, and so on.

The IPCC admits in AR4 their lack of understanding in feedback mechanisms, especially clouds.

Without the positive feedback assumption, AGW (specifically CO2 as the lead author) cannot possibly work.

As far as I'm concerned, full true understanding of feedback/albedo mechanism(s) is an enormous missing chunk of the puzzle.

The science cannot possibly be 'settled' without that knowledge.
 A1_GOLD
Joined: 5/6/2009
Msg: 362
view profile
History
The Science of Global Warming
Posted: 1/23/2010 7:09:17 PM
The IPCC is in trouble again on multiple fronts.

Their declaration that the glaciers in the Himalayas are going to melt away by 2035 was based on a non scientific news story.

Other reports indicate that Arctic summer sea ice has increased 409,000 sq miles, 26% since 2007.

Professor Mojib Latif is predicting mild global cooling over the next few decades.

Al Gore and the IPCC might have got the science wrong on Global Warming.
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 363
The Science of Global Warming
Posted: 1/23/2010 7:37:07 PM
I think it is all a big conspiracy
To set us up for when a real emergency emerges
We will confidently sit back and allow it to over take us
 Thorb
Joined: 7/15/2005
Msg: 364
The Science of Global Warming
Posted: 1/24/2010 8:27:59 AM
Other reports indicate that Arctic summer sea ice has increased 409,000 sq miles, 26% since 2007


what reports and by who .... site a quote or two for this preposterous claim.
[did you bother to even check google's latest reports from major news papers?]


New Data Show Rapid Arctic Ice Decline - washingtonpost.com6 Apr 2009 ... On thin ice at both ends of world: Arctic sea ice sets record for newer, ... "The ice is melting," Stoere said. "We should all be worried." ...
www.washingtonpost.com



CTV News | Study says Arctic sea ice melting faster than expected3 Apr 2009 ... WASHINGTON — Arctic sea ice is melting so fast most of it could be gone in 30 years. A new analysis of changing conditions in the region, ...
www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/.../arctic_ice_090403


everything I'v seen this year .... talks with the natives ... ships through the NW passage ... arctic water temperature readings ... all agree with the melting reports.
We have to learn to adapt and start investing in helping with the adaption in the North.
 eye4light
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 365
The Science of Global Warming
Posted: 1/24/2010 10:16:51 AM
Here’s how I see it -

A man begins driving from Los Angeles to Toronto. Two hours later, the oil pressure light comes on. He continues driving.

Three hours later, the light is still on but he remembers that the oil level was checked sometime in the past couple of months so he probably doesn’t need to check it again. That would waste of time that could be spent driving.

An hour later, he hears a radio report about a mechanic who was caught fraudulently charging people for unneeded repair service. This convinces him that all mechanics are not to be believed.

Four hours later he hears a talk show host ranting about an automobile recall order for a faulty design. This convinces him that the oil light is probably only on because it’s faulty.

Two hours later, a radio preacher passionately quotes Exodus 14:25, “He made the wheels of their chariots come off so that they had difficulty driving”. This convinces the driver that if the oil pressure warning light is right, something could go wrong with the engine that might make driving difficult - but not stop him from reaching Toronto.

He hears many more things on his radio: the Mayan calendar ends soon and so does the Universe; generation upon generation of evangelists have seen the positive signs that they would see the end of the Earth as we know it and so it must be about to happen...eventually; sometimes cars run perfectly and sometimes they break down - it’s just a natural cycle, no big deal; there are spots on the sun that can disturb television and cell phone reception.

He is convinced that the oil light is not really important and besides, the world will come to an end someday so, ”why worry?”

A few hours later, there’s a loud knocking sound coming from the engine. White smoke starts billowing from the exhaust and the engine is losing power.

He drives on. No worries.

 coolnomad
Joined: 5/4/2007
Msg: 366
view profile
History
The Science of Global Warming
Posted: 1/24/2010 4:12:03 PM
Island home - I would urge you to consider how absurd your comment sounds. Consider for a moment, the level of competence that we see demonstrated by our governments.
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 367
The Science of Global Warming
Posted: 1/24/2010 4:17:54 PM
coolnomad
Its not the government
its the anti government
Thems the brainy ones
 coolnomad
Joined: 5/4/2007
Msg: 368
view profile
History
The Science of Global Warming
Posted: 1/24/2010 4:31:55 PM
Who is the anti government?
 A1_GOLD
Joined: 5/6/2009
Msg: 369
view profile
History
The Science of Global Warming
Posted: 1/24/2010 6:00:04 PM

what reports and by who .... site a quote or two for this preposterous claim.
[did you bother to even check google's latest reports from major news papers?


I'm sorry, they have been lying, please read this article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1242011/DAVID-ROSE-The-mini-ice-age-starts-here.html

The IPCC reports you have heard aren't based on real observations.
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 370
The Science of Global Warming
Posted: 1/25/2010 12:37:05 AM

Who is the anti government?[.quote]
With my tongue still firmly in my check
The conspiracy theorists!
 Thorb
Joined: 7/15/2005
Msg: 371
The Science of Global Warming
Posted: 1/25/2010 7:10:53 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1242011/DAVID-ROSE-The-mini-ice-age-starts-here.html

The IPCC reports you have heard aren't based on real observations.


did you actually understand that article and its implications?


Tsonis did not give a figure; Latif suggested it could be anything between ten and 50 per cent.


even the quoted scientists are saying only up to half of the cooling warming effects they talk about fit into the natural cycles they are talking about ... that still leaves 50 percent to ninty percent being our fault .... maybe not necessarily carbon dioxide related but still our fault .


hence the max in their ... model of 50 percent could only counter our 50 percent until that cycle stops ... and then wham .... we get hit huge ...
we still need to work on adaptation and solutions ...

Lies are not being told as much as data interpretation is still in progress.
don't jump to any stupid conclusions too quickly .... the Innuit are rarely wrong about the Arctic.

The article also fails to mention that the freezing of Britain is predicted in a global warming scenario .... The Gulf Stream weakens and then eventually stops and this leads to Britain and Europe getting colder instead of warmer.
The talks of the recent snow storms and freezing temperatures have absolutely no relativity to the thesis by the scientists they are quoting ... it is pure sensationalism of journalism with no meterology validy.
The jet stream fluxuates every year ... and whenever el ninos [sp?] occurs as it did this year ... the weather patterns get very weird .

One or two years does not a pattern make.


further note in researching the data in that article ....

from the source of your original numbers of sea ice increasing ....
US National Snow and Ice Data Centre in Colorado ...

December 2009 compared to past years
December 2009 had the fourth-lowest average ice extent for the month since the beginning of satellite records, falling just above the extent for 2007. The linear rate of decline for December is now 3.3% per decade.



if you think anyone knows what is the future for sure .... well you should read this part of the Snow and Ice Data Centre's post ..


Negative phase of the Arctic Oscillation

These regional contrasts in temperature anomalies resulted from a strongly negative phase of the Arctic Oscillation (AO). The AO is a natural pattern of climate variability. It consists of opposing patterns of atmospheric pressure between the polar regions and middle latitudes. The positive phase of the AO exists when pressures are lower than normal over the Arctic, and higher than normal in middle latitude. In the negative phase, the opposite is true; pressures are higher than normal over the Arctic and lower than normal in middle latitudes. The negative and positive phases of the AO set up opposing temperature patterns. With the AO in its negative phase this season, the Arctic is warmer than average, while parts of the middle latitudes are colder than normal. The phase of the AO also affects patterns of precipitation, especially over Europe.

The phase of the AO is described in terms of an index value. In December 2009 the AO index value was -3.41, the most negative value since at least 1950, according to data from the NOAA Climate Prediction Center.

While a negative AO leads to warmer temperatures over the Arctic, it also tends to reduce the flow of sea ice out of the Arctic by affecting the winds that can export the ice to warmer waters, where it melts. In this way, a negative AO could help retain some the second- and third-year ice through the winter, and potentially rebuild some of the older, multiyear ice that has been lost over the past few years. However, we do not yet know if the strongly negative AO will persist through the winter, or what its net effect will be.
 A1_GOLD
Joined: 5/6/2009
Msg: 372
view profile
History
The Science of Global Warming
Posted: 1/25/2010 8:10:50 PM
You understand that the IPCC report states that the Himalayas glaciers will melt by 2035 was based on hearsay and had misrepresented the news article as scientific research when it was just word of mouth?

The scientists suggest that the changes in global cooling and warming is based on changes in ocean currents and these fluctuations cycle over decades?

Weather scientists have trouble predicting weather a week ahead of time much less decades at a time.



Lies are not being told as much as data interpretation is still in progress.
don't jump to any stupid conclusions too quickly .... the Innuit are rarely wrong about the Arctic.


I would love to see a scientific journals report by Innuit scientists. Are there any Innuit climatologists that you can cite? Or are you too working on Innuit hearsay?

Just because you believe that something as simple as burning fossil fuels may be changing the global environment doesn't make it so. It sounds easy but when the weatherman can't predict the local weather this coming weekend or the coming season, I find it hard to accept that it can be predicted for the next year or for the coming decade. Who can you trust with your plans for the next week and be as absolutly certain of their predictions as you seem to0 be of their prediction of the weather 20 years from now.

I am still of the generation that had the fear of global cooling drilled into us. Too much rainfall spoiling the harvests. Summers to cold for plants and frosts destroying citrus in the southern states. Winter snow storms, blizzards, that buried cites for weeks at a time, snow drifts higher than homes. Rising fresh water lakes due to rainfall and snow. Hurricanes that hit the east coast up to Manhattan in the fall. We were frightened that glaciation might start again and there was nothing we could do about it. No one ever mentioned global WARMING.

Oh yeah, please moderate your use of certain adjectives, they are insulting, please be civil.
 coolnomad
Joined: 5/4/2007
Msg: 373
view profile
History
The Science of Global Warming
Posted: 1/25/2010 11:22:50 PM

Weather scientists have trouble predicting weather a week ahead of time much less decades at a time.


This is actually a misconception about climate science. Predicting short term events is very difficult, but predicting trends extrapolated over long stretches of time is very doable. For instance, consider roulette... betting on red or black coming up on the next spin is very difficult if not impossible to predict. However, over many repetitions the trend is predicable (say 10,000) roughly 48% will be black, 48% will be red and 4% will be green.
 quietjohn2
Joined: 12/6/2004
Msg: 374
view profile
History
The Science of Global Warming
Posted: 2/4/2010 8:40:54 PM
Here is a nice long-term prediction - over about 450,000 years, placing current global temperatures exactly where they should be base upon a 120,000 temperature cycle- http://www.globalwarmingart.com/wiki/File:Ice_Age_Temperature_Rev_png.

Based on ice core measures, the planet has been hotter than the present time on 4 occasions and then it has cooled off again.

Go back 4-5 million years and the planet was substantially warmer - http://www.globalwarmingart.com/wiki/File:Five_Myr_Climate_Change_Rev_png

You may argue that CO2 levels may add to the effect, and I'd agree that it would be wise to moderate CO2 production, but graphs like these surely raise a question about how anthropogenic current climate patterns really are.

This chart http://www.globalwarmingart.com/wiki/File:Phanerozoic_Carbon_Dioxide_png shows CO2 levels hitting at least 3 times higher than current levels in the same 450,000 year period - and the planet cooled down again. The solid lines are computer models.
 themadfiddler
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 375
The Science of Global Warming
Posted: 7/9/2010 1:05:26 AM
This headline should liven things up a tad...


http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/8/headlines#9


British Probe Clears "Climategate" Scientists

A British university probe has cleared a team of scientists linked to the so-called "Climategate" controversy last year. The University of East Anglia launched the investigation after over 1,000 emails were stolen from its Climatic Research Unit and publicly released. Deniers of global warming had claimed the stolen emails provided evidence of an effort to silence academics who have questioned or downplayed human-driven climate change. But in the latest of several probes to clear the scientists involved, panelists found no proof of the charges. University of East Anglia vice chancellor Edward Acton said he hopes the so-called controversy can be put to rest.

Edward Acton: "Today for the third and hopefully the final time, an exhaustive independent review has exposed as unfounded the whole thrust of allegations against our science. We hope the commentators will accurately reflect what this highly detailed independent report says and finally lay to rest the conspiracy theories, untruths and misunderstandings that have circulated."

The British probe comes one week after a Penn State panel exonerated one if its top scientists whose emails were among those released.

Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > The Science of Global Warming