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Show ALL Forums  > Over 45  > Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?      Home login  
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 WesternRose
Joined: 1/2/2011
Msg: 101
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Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?Page 5 of 20    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20)
Ditto...Very sad state of affairs today. I'm not willing to settle for less. Since I am forever the optomist I believe that one of these days some man will realize that. My deceased husband did and we had a great life together. He courted me. Was man enough not to even bring up the subject of sex for an entire year until I was certain. Because I know that can happen I'll just wait. The recent experiences I have had on here encourage me to be patient on a daily basis.
 Perigee123
Joined: 7/14/2009
Msg: 102
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Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 8/10/2011 8:16:29 PM
Ok, I may as well weigh in on this whole thing, just because it's an intriguing subject with what appears to be a large amount of odd conclusions flailing around.

The Glory Days of Romance took place a very long time ago. Some might look to chivalry, a romantic concept until you realize that women were essentially chattle. They were property. They did what they were told, when they were told. If they didn't a little knocking around was not only in order, but obligatory to maintain face in the community.

So, we'll leave the middle ages behind.

We'll go back a little less far - to those halycon days of the 40's and 50's. When men opened doors and pulled out chairs and protected their chosen beloved. And she sat home and made the meals, cleaned and ironed the clothes, and herded the kids and attended the PTA and went to the Women's Auxillary, to make the food for the boys at the Elks Club Banquet.

It was a different time - it was a different social contract. And contracts are important.

I've always adored the fact that in 1964, Burt Bacharach penned a Grammy Winning tune called "Wives And Lovers" -

Hey, little girl,
Comb your hair, fix your make-up.
Soon he will open the door.
Don't think because
There's a ring on your finger,
You needn't try any more

For wives should always be lovers, too.
Run to his arms the moment he comes home to you.
I'm warning you.

Day after day,
There are girls at the office,
And men will always be men.
Don't send him off
With your hair still in curlers.
You may not see him again.


Burt didn't get vilified; he didn't get tarred and feathered. He won a Grammy. As astoundingly bizarre as it seems in retrospect, the song was the culture of the times.

We're a little different today. We went through the sexual revolution and feminism; I suspect there is no one here - especially of the female gender - who would even begin to suggest that the changes that have been made in our culture because of these things were not vast improvements.

But that called for a new social contract.

Social equality is a wonderful thing. But, like all of life, equality is a series of compromises. As a consequence of equality, the elevation of women as paragons disappeared. Like Adam and Eve, self determination drove women from their protected status into an uncaring world to fend as equals.

I grew up in the seventies with the understanding that I don't demean, talk down to, sexually harass, or patronize independent, strong, capable women. I treat them as equals. And I expect them to treat me as an equal. I don't expect a modern woman to "Love, Honor and Obey" me; and I don't expect them to expect me to.

Women are partners, not objects to be won. And, frankly, I'm not fond of the idea of an equal demanding preferential treatment from me.
 Brian091960
Joined: 8/5/2011
Msg: 103
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 8/11/2011 3:21:29 PM
I rarely see the romantic side of life anymore and especially when it comes to online dating. I look like a dork so I don't get much activity but in the years I've been trying the online dating I've seen that it's all about hurrying up and getting along with the program for the most part. The instant chemistry, yikes, that's more like lust when it happens. Yeah it can happen but I find it rarely does and most I feel don't give things a chance when it's not there instantly.

As far as romance like in the old days... Well the movies are what they are, movies. The old Bogie and Bacall films, that just doesn't happen. It could if people slowed down enough to let it happen. The courting... Dinner one night, a movie another night, bowling another. And at the end of those 3 hour nights a little banter after. It's the chat and banter and flirting in between that leads to desire usually.

My best relationships though few and far between since I divorced some 12 years ago usually are initially friendships and knowing that what lies ahead could be much more. When things are rushed it's simply no good. Let it all play out and good good good, and great too!!!
 Perigee123
Joined: 7/14/2009
Msg: 104
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Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 8/11/2011 8:34:39 PM
Personal opinion, Brian, but I don't think speed is the problem.

It was before your time - and mine - by about twenty years, but what might be forgotten in all of this romanticization of romance is is that it was never a one-way street.

In the time before the rise of women's empowerment, women were chiefly concerned with bagging themselves a husband. That may be bleak, but it is true and not "wrong," as it was the culture of the time. It was very much a woman's concern to appeal to a man, to attract him, to please him, to stroke his ego and use whatever feminine wiles were available to her to solidify their relationship.

The courting that followed was certainly more traditionally romantic than they are today, because each side fed the hunger and ego of the other; they understood William Blake:

"What is it men in women do require
The lineaments of Gratified Desire

What is it women do in men require
The lineaments of Gratified Desire"

I doubt that we are likely to see the re-emergence of the doe-eyed, gushing coquette of the past - "Oh, Mister Johnson! The life of a Fuller Brush man must be sooo exciting!!" I've seen women on this site ridicule men for their taste in shoes. Modern women - as is their right - approach dating in the manner of a corporate employer, with standards to be met and qualifications to exceed, just to make the second interview. One half of that old, romantic dance is missing, and will never be replaced. To expect the other half to linger is... curious.
 Perigee123
Joined: 7/14/2009
Msg: 105
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Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 8/11/2011 9:06:13 PM
Women such as yourself well may be, Omnia. But you've been on these boards as long as I; having read the forums over the course of time, would you consider yourself the rule, or the exception?
 Perigee123
Joined: 7/14/2009
Msg: 106
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Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 8/11/2011 11:28:34 PM
You're a lucky man, Logo. And you're right - it's easy to be romantic to a partner who romances you. It's a fire that feeds on itself. I wish the two of you the best.
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 107
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 8/13/2011 10:29:03 AM

Or...maybe, just maybe....women, such as myself, are also romancing their sweetheart. Making it more of a two-way, fun adventure. I know I have a blast planning and executing the things I do for him.
I even open his passenger door...when I'm the driver:)

Absolutely!!! I don't recall a date, let alone a relationship, in the past 20+ years for my own self, that didn't include romance/courtship ~~~~ by BOTH parties. I doubt I've been overly lucky in this department, I think it has much more to do with the fact that I offer what I like in return. I will never be someone who thinks romance/courtship AND chivalry is dead, because I get all of that daily. I don't care about showy production type romance, that makes me uneasy actually ~ but the little things? My SO and I do nice things for one another every single day. And I don't recall too many days where he hasn't thanked me at the end of the day for the kind/nice/thoughtful things I do. It's about mutual appreciation ~ which is so lost on some people today (men and women on this note.) I think that if people were to stop complaining that it's dead and start DOING it ~ they'd likely figure out: You get what you offer. But that's just how I see it!! JMO
 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 108
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Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 8/13/2011 11:36:11 AM

Perigee:
Social equality is a wonderful thing. But, like all of life, equality is a series of compromises. As a consequence of equality, the elevation of women as paragons disappeared. Like Adam and Eve, self determination drove women from their protected status into an uncaring world to fend as equals.

I grew up in the seventies with the understanding that I don't demean, talk down to, sexually harass, or patronize independent, strong, capable women. I treat them as equals. And I expect them to treat me as an equal. I don't expect a modern woman to "Love, Honor and Obey" me; and I don't expect them to expect me to.

Women are partners, not objects to be won. And, frankly, I'm not fond of the idea of an equal demanding preferential treatment from me.


It seems to me that you are confusing the work place with the social/dating world. In the workplace, women are equals, to be treated with whatever respect they earn. In the social / dating world, women are still “objects to be won”. When I see an attractive woman, I desire her. Period. I want to get close to her, to see her up close, to smell her, to touch her, to feel her, to taste her. In other words, intimacy. That is the desired objective. And that attractive woman has complete control over who gets to be intimate with her. If she is truly attractive, there are many other men competing with me for that intimacy. So I have to “win her over”, and that does involve things like romance, courtship, chivalry, and more.

Which is just another reason to NEVER date anyone from work.
 Perigee123
Joined: 7/14/2009
Msg: 109
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Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 8/13/2011 9:01:37 PM

ohenryx:

It seems to me that you are confusing the work place with the social/dating world. In the workplace, women are equals, to be treated with whatever respect they earn. In the social / dating world, women are still “objects to be won”. When I see an attractive woman, I desire her. Period. I want to get close to her, to see her up close, to smell her, to touch her, to feel her, to taste her. In other words, intimacy. That is the desired objective. And that attractive woman has complete control over who gets to be intimate with her. If she is truly attractive, there are many other men competing with me for that intimacy. So I have to “win her over”, and that does involve things like romance, courtship, chivalry, and more.


I disagree, ohenryx - but it's an honest disagreement.

I'm not sure any modern woman would agree to be objectified; disregarding the sexual economics of supply-and-demand, the lovely Ms. Higby in accounting is still Ms. Higby at the local bistro during her off-time. I don't think she puts her capabilities and intelligence in the closet when she pulls out that little black dress.

Ms. Higby cannot be - or, rather, in my opinion, should not be - an intelligent, rational and capable woman from 9-5 and a hot piece of tail from happy hour on till dawn. I don't see using the trappings of chivalry as a lure to intimacy as "courtship" in the traditional sense, as long as the whole of the woman is being parsed out according to the time of day.

Now, granted I'm overly intellectual; but at nearly 50, I've been around the block the scenic route, and experienced the pitfalls of relationships with both youth and beauty. And, although your explanation about the attractive woman who is truly attractive who is attractive enough to decide who will be intimate with her makes sense, it doesn't allow the woman to be any more than attractive and the goal to any more than intimate.

Which is kinda anti-chivalrous, to my way of thinking.
 kathytenhearts
Joined: 12/31/2005
Msg: 110
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Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 8/14/2011 7:32:08 PM
i hear you harley kat. i have been divorced for 25 years & i will not marry just to marry & divorce....
 lilMolly
Joined: 8/12/2011
Msg: 111
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 8/18/2011 5:10:02 AM
I have found that in todays world.... its a lost passion.

I personally love to be romanced and to spark a fire under my man. The want is almost as hot as the get in my book.

One thing for me - I recently met a man I could spend the rest of my waking days with ....
and I lept and said "I love you" first. I dont care if I have only known him 3 months - I said how I feel, because life is short...and you just never know if tomorrow will never come.
 ClaireChristine
Joined: 8/16/2011
Msg: 112
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 8/21/2011 11:29:05 PM
Yes romance seems to be dead and what is with the friends with benefits thing? A girl is a fool to be used that way I feel. People text make ups and break ups on their mobile phones and even at school they are giving blow jobs to be popular, down behind the toilets ughhh.. That is not seen as "real sex"". THe swearing is prolific amongst girls as well and it is most unattractive in my view. It is bad enough when the boys do it.
 Natgoat
Joined: 3/24/2011
Msg: 113
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 8/22/2011 12:18:02 PM
Yeah...Yeh..yehyehyehyeh....
'The Good 'ol Days!!'
When a lady was a Lady...and people could actually Spell the word 'Gentleman'...!!
Now, it's
B!t@#-this and $l^t-that..
Guys want 'FWB' relationships, and women are looking for 'Bad-boys'....
then wonder why they need 4 trips to the Dentist per year..!!
But...there Are a few of us 'romantic-types' left...
Often given labels like 'Geek' or 'Nerd' but Gentlemen, nonetheless..!!

MM-mm-MM-mmmm...Kissing..!!
 Glenoran1
Joined: 3/1/2009
Msg: 114
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 8/22/2011 5:22:57 PM
VV, I agree. Methods of meeting singles has changed drastically and become more 'targeted' -- 'meat markets' and dating sites like this that are basically online stores where you can browse and read about the merchandise on display.

Especially in small towns, there usually are no dances or other social gatherings at which to meet and strike up a conversation, get to know folks and observe how they behave around others , etc. We so need that sort of outlet to come back in style, along with the habit of introducing one's single friends to others you know.

Basically, once we leave high school or post-secondary institutions, our access to dating venues drops off dramatically. And when you are middle-aged or older ... um, good luck! It can happen, but so can winning the lottery.

Romance and courtship, though? I can't comment on the experience among the younger set, but I suspect the following holds true more often than not with those in their 50's or older: Even the good ones probably feel they have 'outgrown' those starry-eyed, breathless, heart-on-the-sleeve feelings that would fuel romantic enactments. Courtship would probably be going for walks and out to dinner a few times and then taking the most direct route to the bedroom. I think it's more a matter of 'been there, done that, it's gotten old and so have I', and warm embers having replaced the fire within.

There are bound to be exceptions, but I've had a few 'meet-and-greets' after e-mailing or speaking on the phone a bit. In person, each fellow seemed sluggish or half-asleep even before either of us spoke. If there is no Prince Charming waiting for me, at least I don't want to end up with a Prince Valium.

And romance? Think I'll check that on Wikipedia (grin).
 cre8nlove
Joined: 1/13/2010
Msg: 115
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 8/23/2011 12:44:39 PM
I'm with you Desert Wildflower. I'm about finished too. Finding that sweet, old fashioned man who stands on morals and treating a lady like a lady is getting to be almost impossible. I've been on 2 dates out of a dozen where the guys weren't just after the holy grail. I want to get to know someone and feel a spark from the heart, spend a little time finding out what makes his heart tick. Why can't we sit down together and get to know each other on that first "meeting". Why does it always seem to evolve into what HE wants in the sex department. Then when you tell them you want more from the relationship than just lust and want to get to know them first, they disappear into thin air. Sex is wonderful, don't get me wrong. I love sex.....ALOT! But why so fast? Is it that guys of my age are so desperate for a relationship (someone to take care of them, maybe) that they can't take the time to court me? I recently heard to be wary of the nurse/purse theory. If they are in a hurry it's because they want a "nurse" or what's in your "purse"! Is that true? God, I hope we have some guys out there that are genuinely looking for TRUE love and want to invest a little time in getting to know a girl that strikes their fancy before jumping their bones! My theory is heart/smart! My guy must have a "heart" and be able to show it to me through his conversation and caring attitude and be "smart" enough to know that the way to a LADY's heart isn't by sexual advances on the first date. Get a clue, guys! Where are all the gentlemen?
 Perigee123
Joined: 7/14/2009
Msg: 116
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Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 8/23/2011 1:49:59 PM
Probably a worthless addition, but let me throw something in here...

A while back in this thread, I was talking about social contracts. Not too long afterwards, I found myself amazed, bemused and astounded. This crusty old galoot was shining up his armor because he was caught off guard by the oldest coy ploy in the books:

The old "16 Going on 17" Gambit. You know the song...

"Totally unprepared am I
To face a world of men
Timid and shy and scared am I
Of things beyond my ken..."

Flinty, jaded and cynical, and I started to swallow it hook, line, and sinker.

After a friend shook me to my senses, I realized that it was still a Brilliant Play. It was an offer to waltz.

I bow to no one, ever... except to a woman curtseys to me. That's strange, abstract little sentence, but try to understand it.

In a world of mixed signals and unequal equals, I am absolutely LOATHE to jump through hoops for women who are looking to "hold the power." They have no power over me, and I'll set my heels like a Missouri mule. When the message is more ambiguous, I stay ambiguous; I see no need to give what I am not given, but a partnership is possible. But a woman that defers? Then, at least to me, romance and courtship are in the air. Opening doors? Walking on the streetside of the pavement? Flowers and notes?As natural as breathing in a dance where a man's role (IN THE DANCE) and a woman's role (IN THE DANCE) are defined so traditionally that there is no need for analysis of roles, moment to moment. Like a waltz, the steps are timeless, and in tandem a couple is swept up.

That being said, in retrospect it scared the hell out of me. ~grin~ I thought I had rusted that aspect of myself solid years ago. It turns out, all it was waiting for was an invitation to dance again.
 RubyWaxxx
Joined: 10/23/2010
Msg: 117
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 8/23/2011 2:43:45 PM
^^I think we're all hoping/waiting for that invitation to dance again, even subliminally.
That sniff in the air works even on the most emotionally dead. Even ancient old crones and warlocks can still smell it and rise to the occasion..
And, if this is the case, then romance and courtship will never die. They are just waiting for the right opportunity.
 tinkastoi
Joined: 7/31/2011
Msg: 118
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 8/25/2011 12:29:15 PM
I agree, if no romance then why am I here? I too am looking for romance, not instant gradification.
 femaleandflirty
Joined: 7/16/2011
Msg: 119
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 9/20/2011 4:42:49 PM
Yes the language and the smoking lol! THe girls giving bjs on a casual basis not to mention sex on a first date........ No wonder romance is dead....lol!! Is it a bi product of equal rights and liberations... I dont know.
 femaleandflirty
Joined: 7/16/2011
Msg: 120
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 9/20/2011 4:45:50 PM
Good on you. If you feel the love then express it for sure. You may not get a response but you at least are being honest and forthright.
 femaleandflirty
Joined: 7/16/2011
Msg: 121
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 9/20/2011 4:49:12 PM
Men are men and carnal. Naturally they all want to bonk a truly attractive woman, that is how it is...beauty has power and always will....it is the manifestation of healthy genes made for breeding at the animal instinctive level. Mind you alcohol can skew perceptions and many a person has been laid under those conditions that normally would not be............
 femaleandflirty
Joined: 7/16/2011
Msg: 122
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 9/20/2011 4:51:50 PM
You are not looking for old fashioned romance on here are you...olo!
 libralaughing
Joined: 7/30/2011
Msg: 123
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 9/20/2011 6:19:34 PM
Well, I don't know if romance and courtship is stone-cold dead, but it's certainly evolved into a new life form! I know men and women who have and want what those old movies hinted at; I also know men and women who hook up for the physical aspects only. It's what makes the world turn 'round, I suppose. I'm still an old-school person, I suppose ... still have trouble even with texting - and just to throw a ringer in, that's how my neice's boyfriend of over a year broke it off with her one Thanksgiving. Just sent her a text message that he didn't think they were 'compatible.' Lovely, hmm? (And just made for such a HAPPY Thanksgiving dinner.)
 northcountryfair
Joined: 9/10/2011
Msg: 124
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 9/20/2011 7:19:33 PM
My son is living proof it's not dead yet. he's 37, has two childrenfrom live in relationships, and survived a very short, very bad marriage. he finally learned. i won't say he's the most romantic guy out there, but for the pst 6 weeks he's been dating a nice woman. just dting her. no sex yet, just actually getting to know each other. I won't say he wouldn't take her up on it if she offered, but for now he's content to take things more slowly than he used to. maybe he has figured out that if you want a woman who is like a fine H avana, you don't treat her like a cheap cigarette.
 Dave of Indiana
Joined: 3/18/2009
Msg: 125
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Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 10/13/2011 9:06:54 PM
I don't think romance is dead but sex is saturating our society and can over shadow the opportunity for romance to blossom.
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