Notice: Forums will be shutdown by June 2019

To focus on better serving our members, we've decided to shut down the POF forums.

While regular posting is now disabled, you can continue to view all threads until the end of June 2019. Event Hosts can still create and promote events while we work on a new and improved event creation service for you.

Thank you!

Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Over 45  >      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 kendrajo51
Joined: 2/9/2013
Msg: 155
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?Page 6 of 20    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20)
TantricJedi...I find that most people online (men also) are "shopping" wanting to get the best deal for their buck...so to speak. I find instead of them reading someones profile, and thinking..."wow this woman seems very intelligent, we have a lot in common, she may not be a model, or drop dead gorgeous, bit she sounds like someone I could truely have a lot in common with", they usually look at the pics, and stop there. Men tend to be much more visual creatures than women, even at our ages. Problem is, people with that line of thinking, are more likely to not find what it is they want, because they are unable to be happy...think there is always something better on the next web site. The internet has turned dating into a unending endeavor to find perfection.
 *mae* flowers
Joined: 1/15/2006
Msg: 156
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 2/24/2013 12:24:31 AM

Firstly apologies if this is 'roadtripping' and in breach of the forum guidelines...since I am in the UK


We welcome guests from far away lands...lol

OK, am sure it's been already on this thread but romance and courtship have nothing to do with material things...but they are kind of intertwined.


Agreed. I once went for an ice-cream cone with someone about five years ago and I would place that under the heading of "sharing a romantic moment"


Smile - I do this so much people avoid me!


Maybe they think you're 'up to something' ~smiles~ just had to add that


Be less mercenary - I never do anything thinking I'll get something back


I like that....very much :)

awwwshucks....You've got a great attitude. Please feel free to post again.

...mae
 funny4uwannatry
Joined: 12/27/2011
Msg: 157
view profile
History
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 2/24/2013 5:41:54 AM
Awe shucks.(Good manners - should be a natural thing
Holding a door open - I do this for both sexes, even once for a dog!
Smile - I do this so much people avoid me!
Be less mercenary - I never do anything thinking I'll get something back
Be less predatory - I can honestly say I've never chatted to a woman with a hidden agenda)

I agree 100%!! I do not think romance is gone, I think you need to find the one who is willing to be romantic with you. they exist!!
 All2rosie
Joined: 2/3/2013
Msg: 158
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 2/24/2013 10:39:57 AM
Chivalry and romance are not lost arts. The people particing it and the people expecting don't always find each other. It take effort and many men (IMO) don't feel their efforts are appreciated or wanted.

I don't care maybe I'm just old..lol but I love that stuff and always take time to let that man know that his efforts are appreciated. It often leads to easy, relaxed conversations and even some laughs.

Expectations are different, yes, however it is up to us to define what will and will not work for us as individuals.
I expect it. I qualify that statement by saying it is not about spending gobs of money rather that he was thoughtful enough and condiderate enough to take the time and the effort to bring a small token....I don't accept 'expensive' gifts! A CD of a song/artist I like, flowers ( even 1 single bloom), my fav chocolate or something we can share together - thoughtful and not uncomfortably costly.

Men and woman have always been like little bunnies - doing it anywhere and everywhere at the drop of a hat - it just was not talked about as it is now, nor was sex outside marriage so openly accepted. Today is is almost the exact opposite - many couple won't marry without finding out if they are sexually compatible.
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 159
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 2/24/2013 11:12:52 AM

It seems to me that some of the female folks on here know what romance is, but there doesn't seem to be agreement among them.


Why should there be? We’re not a string of paper dolls. Each one of us is an individual, unique woman. What may be romantic to me, may not be to many other women. That’s what makes romance special. It’s a fairly basic concept, I would think.

Do men appreciate being thought of as one giant entity? What works for one works for all?


So guys, listen up. This is how you're expected to perform.


Here’s a tip: cynicism and sarcasm…..NOT romantic. I’ll even make the leap to assume NO woman would think so.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 160
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 2/24/2013 12:20:38 PM

awwwshucks
But then I am perhaps a little too 'old school' (even for the UK) given that I courted my 1st wife for 4yrs before she's even go out with me (not in a creepy stalkerish way I assure!). I was just a friend she could rely on.


I have to ask. 4 years before you even got a date and you say your 1st wife, not your Ex-Wife. I have to interpret that as you've had more than 1 Wife, from the way you wrote it. Do you think at any time about the amount of time you wasted on your 1st Wife?
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 161
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 2/24/2013 12:24:24 PM

I’ll even make the leap to assume NO woman would think so.



Sooooooo, are you women a string of paper dolls or not???? It's one or the other, not a tough question. Probably a tough answer though.

Oh, this thread and the replies in it by both genders????? Makes me wanna stay single.
 Tarnished_Knight
Joined: 3/5/2009
Msg: 162
view profile
History
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 2/24/2013 12:25:47 PM
I'm out of practice fer sure, but I can assure you that for this ol' boy romance and courtship are still alive and kickin'. Just need someone to lavish then rusty roles on.

AND, Blonde_Angel, a lady makes me a sumptuous home cooked meal, I don't cough up 1/2 the grocery tab I grab the wash rag, if allowed. However, we might have to fight over who gets to cook, I'm no slouch in the kitchen either.

TK
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 163
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 2/24/2013 12:31:26 PM

Sooooooo, are you women a string of paper dolls or not???? It's one or the other, not a tough question. Probably a tough answer though.


You’re right. I’m sure there are oodles of women who LOVE being “romanced” by cynical, sarcastic men. So, cheer up.

Thank you for clarifying the simplicity of your question. I was wondering about that.
 Freudian
Joined: 3/15/2010
Msg: 164
view profile
History
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 2/24/2013 12:42:37 PM
No, you're not a string of paper dolls. Never said you were, you read that into the posting. Of course you're unique, just like everyone else. And actions that seem romantic to you may be abhorrent to someone of a different culture or belief system. Those are all given in any intelligent discussion.

Do men appreciate being thought of as one entity? I would think not, but I'm just one guy, not all of them. But, within a given culture, among a subculture of similarly aged people, there should be some commonality. To say that, "romance is gone", or "men aren't romantic any more," requires that they (men) once were, and that it is common knowledge what romance is. This simply isn't true; it may not be true in either case individually, but it certainly isn't true in combination.

Based solely on your comment, it's different for every woman and a man has to guess what it is because he will be held accountable for complying with this expectation upon first sight. This is even before he introduces himself, rises to shake hands, or slovenly kicks the opposing chair back so you know where he expects you to sit.

And in regard to the last statement about cynicism and sarcasm not being romantic. How would I know when there is not acceptable definition of romantic, and as you pointed out, all women are different. There are a LOT of women that find Dennis Miller sexy. His entire livelihood is based on those two items. Similarly for Bill Maher, and many other entertainers. Strangely, sexy and romantic must not correspond, even though they seem to in idle conversation.

So ladies, quit avoiding an answer and tell us what it is.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 165
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 2/24/2013 12:52:41 PM

You’re right. I’m sure there are oodles of women who LOVE being “romanced” by cynical, sarcastic men. So, cheer up


Cynical????? Sarcastic?????

Have ya read anything you've typed in the last 6 months??????

And no, not in a bad mood. I'm still drunk from Friday. Can't even tell ya how I was feeling last night.

I too, would LOVE to read a "true" definition of what "romancing" is all about. Not the Sunday afternoon girly movie definition but, one that actually be used in today's world.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 166
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 2/24/2013 12:59:05 PM
There is no right or wrong answer for all Men/Women. What is Cheap and in Bad Taste to one, is Frugal and Smart to another.
 venusenvy777
Joined: 11/19/2008
Msg: 167
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 2/24/2013 1:08:45 PM
Sounds like your stuck in a time-warp from some by-gone era and wondering why the world doesnt conform to your antiquated ideas of the way things SHOULD be. Why not just jump into the era and enjoy the way life IS ???
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 168
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 2/24/2013 1:41:32 PM

Cynical????? Sarcastic?????

Have ya read anything you've typed in the last 6 months??????


Oh, am I supposedly “romancing” men on these forums with my posts? I didn’t know that, but it kind of explains a lot.


I too, would LOVE to read a "true" definition of what "romancing" is all about. Not the Sunday afternoon girly movie definition but, one that actually be used in today's world.


…..and you’re not getting it’s different for every woman. I personally have no interest whatsoever in “Sunday afternoon girly movies,” but I’m sure there are plenty of women who do.

I know. Expending energy on an individual woman would be sooo very exhausting; a one-stop source for all of us would make being a man so much easier. With all that deep, heartfelt “romancing” out of the way you could get back to your power tools and motor oil and such.


Based solely on your comment, it's different for every woman and a man has to guess what it is because he will be held accountable for complying with this expectation upon first sight. This is even before he introduces himself, rises to shake hands, or slovenly kicks the opposing chair back so you know where he expects you to sit.


What? You got all that out of my comment that each woman is a unique individual? Wow. I would hope that most men know that rude behavior isn’t romantic, or do some of you need to learn how to not be offensive first? Keep bodily fluids and gases to yourself, at least until you know her much, much better….

“Romantic” COULD be taking the time to get to know a woman well enough to know what she likes, loves, and dislikes; when you know someone it’s much easier to know how to please her, eh?

I mean you could go the boring, predictable flowers and candy route, but then, which kind? A man who took some time to get to know ME would know I love wildflowers best, and that I generally don’t eat candy. Another woman may swoon over the biggest, most expensive gaudy looking flowers in the shop, along with a box of fattening sugary chemicals….

It’s tormenting, isn’t it?
 pageforyou
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 169
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 2/24/2013 1:55:37 PM
If you do EVER get a date with her, why don't you just ask HER what she considers romantic?

For me, it's simple things like if the guy plans and cooks a dinner he knows is my favourite ( because he asked!) even when he's tired from work. Like I do for him, sometimes. : )
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 170
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 2/24/2013 2:03:05 PM

fleuron
Wow. I would hope that most men know that rude behavior isn’t romantic, or do some of you need to learn how to not be offensive first?


If that was the case then explain the 'Rude Bad Boy Type' that has left a Fleet of broken hearts in his wake. I bet most guys have known one of those that had a flock of Hot Women chasing after him. Just because you don't go for them, doesn't mean there isn't a lot who do.
 pageforyou
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 171
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 2/24/2013 2:37:35 PM

If that was the case then explain the 'Rude Bad Boy Type' that has left a Fleet of broken hearts in his wake. I bet most guys have known one of those that had a flock of Hot Women chasing after him. Just because you don't go for them, doesn't mean there isn't a lot who do.


Most of the girls I have met who go for bad boys are sure not looking for romance, certainly not love.
No, they know they'll get and want lust and excitement, or their definition of it.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 172
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 2/24/2013 3:18:09 PM

BBE
If that was the case then explain the 'Rude Bad Boy Type' that has left a Fleet of broken hearts in his wake. I bet most guys have known one of those that had a flock of Hot Women chasing after him. Just because you don't go for them, doesn't mean there isn't a lot who do.



pageforyou
Most of the girls I have met who go for bad boys are sure not looking for romance, certainly not love.
No, they know they'll get and want lust and excitement, or their definition of it.


And yet I've known more 'Good girls' who thought they were the one who could tame, brand, and stick a ring in the nose of the Bad Boy, where all the rest failed. They were the ones left crying in the aftermath.

You could see "they were riding for a fall" and nothing anyone said would mean a thing at the time.
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 173
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 2/24/2013 3:20:22 PM

If that was the case then explain the 'Rude Bad Boy Type' that has left a Fleet of broken hearts in his wake.


Sorry, I’m not familiar with that type of man, and I’m certainly not interested in dating one.

Are you looking for excuses or perhaps permission to be rude to women? Makes no sense to me.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 174
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 2/24/2013 3:48:46 PM

fleuron
Sorry, I’m not familiar with that type of man,


I don't know if you're being disingenuous or naive, but I think more likely the former than the later. the whole scenario has gone past IRL, to popular culture in the Movies/TV, etc. Then maybe you are that Naive and led a sheltered life, though I doubt it.
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 175
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 2/24/2013 4:16:59 PM

I don't know if you're being disingenuous or naive, but I think more likely the former than the later. the whole scenario has gone past IRL, to popular culture in the Movies/TV, etc. Then maybe you are that Naive and led a sheltered life, though I doubt it.


Excuse me? So you’re discussing fictional characters as if they’re real?

You asked me to explain bad boys who leave behind broken hearts. I’ve never had my heart broken by a “bad boy” or dated one, so I can’t very well “explain” them.

If you think I’m lying, oh well, I won’t lose sleep over it. And I don’t know how you could possibly pretend to know what kind of life I’ve lived.

You didn’t answer my question but in light of your crappy comments, I don’t think I really care. But hey, you’ve got that “rude” thing down. And funnily enough, it doesn’t compel me to want to date you.
 Freudian
Joined: 3/15/2010
Msg: 176
view profile
History
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 2/24/2013 4:21:38 PM
OK, finally. There are some actual answers in here.

I would hope that most men know that rude behavior isn’t romantic, or do some of you need to learn how to not be offensive first? Keep bodily fluids and gases to yourself, at least until you know her much, much better….


“Romantic” COULD be taking the time to get to know a woman well enough to know what she likes, loves, and dislikes; when you know someone it’s much easier to know how to please her, eh?


For me, it's simple things like if the guy plans and cooks a dinner he knows is my favourite ( because he asked!) even when he's tired from work. Like I do for him, sometimes. : )

And, one cool hint:

If you do EVER get a date with her, why don't you just ask HER what she considers romantic?

So, we're getting closer to what 'romance' actually is. Not there yet, but it's starting to appear about a foot or so below the surface of total confusion.

Romance seems to be the earnest attempt at getting to know a woman in a polite and caring manner. To exhibit the simple charms that our ancestors had in a complex, socially varied, distracting present while seeking to know another person. And, to be who we are and allow them to be who they are.

So, let me try and pull it together. Feel free to correct me where I screwed up.

Romance is being yourself, but a polite and patient version. While doing this, pay attention to the woman. Not so close that she feels like she is under a microscope leading to confusion and reluctance. Just close enough to notice the subtle clues to what she likes. Think about these things a bit and seek to compliment and reinforce the ones that seem to be her strong points, and keep quiet about the others.

If she obviously dressed to be attractive, compliment her slightly; don't make a big deal of it, but be sure to mention it. If she dressed to be comfortable, work to make her feel that way. If she's on lunch from a hospital and wearing her scrubs, thank her for taking the time from her day to meet you. The idea is to adapt to her dress and attitude; not change who you are, just acknowledge who she is.

When she walks your way, rise a little from your chair. If she continues and grabs the other chair, let her handle it; she's perfectly capable of handling her own chair. Set back and face her. This will put her in the focus of your sight and help a lot in ignoring the other distractions that are around. However, if she hesitates or pauses, get off your lazy butt and seat her. Then get the heck back to your own chair; don't hover over her trying to see down her blouse.

Conversation should be directed toward getting to know her. Not where she works, how much she makes, how many husbands she's had, how much you have to spend to bed her, just who she is. Don't be sparse with facts about yourself, but don't vomit your life, ambitions, income, possessions, and sexual history all over the table. You want to get to know the woman there with you, not give her a history lesson on yourself.

Trinkets could be nice, but you don't know her yet so determining which are appropriate and would be appreciated could be hard. You don't know if she likes sweets, which flowers she tolerates and which ones she likes, and other things are not appropriate early in the game. Maybe a mint from the counter framed as something you thought she might like. In the desert, a bottle of water is ALWAYS appropriate. Any darn thing of tiny expense, selected to show that you were thinking about the meeting in advance, and specifically about her.

When she talks, you shut up. Listen to her. Prove you're listening by asking questions about what she said. Careful here though, don't turn it into an interrogation. Just ask her for details or a little elaboration to prove that you're actually listening to her, not the ball game on the TV over the bar.

SEX TALK IS FORBIDDEN. Flirting is not. Flirting is hard for some men, "You've got great legs" is a dumb thing to say. Instead, "That skirt looks really good on you," will set the proper tone. Sure, it's actually a belt and her butt must be sticking to the chair, but she doesn't want to hear that. So, keep it to a simple statement. "Wow, you look great today." "Cool earrings." That kind of thing. Never compliment her shoes unless she mentions them. Men looking at shoes is not a heterosexual thing.

That thing called 'chemistry' is actually attraction. That giddy, butterfly in the stomach, unable to compose coherent sentences kind of attraction. Women want this. Women want this A LOT. Think about it guys, we do to. We want to know that she is thinking about when she will see us again, when we will call, it's nice. So, attend to her.
Look her straight in the eyes; this is especially useful if you can learn to see her pupils dilate. Her pupils will dilate when you're doing something right. It's imperative to be in the shade or inside for this to work though.

Above all, be KIND. To her, the person sitting next to you, the server, parking attendants, dogs, etc. Gently shoo the fly away, don't go medieval and try to take it out with the empty chair.

Lastly, some don'ts: Keep the bodily fluids and gasses under control. A quiet burp behind a napkin can be fun, but a rousing roar during which you get half way through the alphabet will gain no points at all. If you need to fart, look for a way to leave the table. The bathroom is the proper place, but if you can't make it, go get another sugar packet...way across the room. Try not to drool no matter how far she leans over the table and how much cleavage she shows. Try not to get foam from the cappuccino on your mustache, but if you do, get it off immediately. If you don't notice it and she points it out, thank her. This could be a good opportunity to flirt (always remember the chemistry thing). No, don't say, "You can lick it off for me." Something like, "Darn, I was hoping to impress you, and blew it." See, you got her into the sentence in a non suggestive way and elicited a response. Don't stare at her chest. Yes, you can glance a lot, but be subtle about it. You want to know her, not the little mole just above the edge of her bra.

Am I getting close yet?

What? You got all that out of my comment that each woman is a unique individual? Wow.

Yep.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 177
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 2/24/2013 4:28:20 PM
I've seen it time and again IRL, and listened to the Girls cry about it, too.

But I'm just your latest target, and you have the Rude B!tch thing down pat. You want to throw more Barbs at me, it's like water off a Duck's back. I think you get your jollies playing the playing the B!tch in the forums. Now you can run off and complain to the Mod's I was mean to you.
 Halcyon_Skies
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 178
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 2/24/2013 5:00:36 PM
But I'm just your latest target, and you have the Rude B!tch thing down pat. You want to throw more Barbs at me, it's like water off a Duck's back. I think you get your jollies playing the playing the B!tch in the forums.


Actually... it's the other way around. You're the one who's busy throwing barbs. Thankfully, there are still plenty of men over 45 out there who treat women with kindness and respect---I know, because I've met one.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 179
Whatever Happened to Romance/Courtship, etc.?
Posted: 2/24/2013 5:42:37 PM

Halcyon_Skies
Actually... it's the other way around. You're the one who's busy throwing barbs. Thankfully, there are still plenty of men over 45 out there who treat women with kindness and respect---I know, because I've met one.


And here comes the backup. Anyone who's read the forums knows how you post towards those who have ever disagreed with you. It's no secret around here you don't like me, and so, it's not surprising you're back with another cut.
Show ALL Forums  > Over 45  >