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 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 320
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The Hillraisers just won't foldPage 11 of 26    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26)
First, I can tell the candidates apart. One ran a smart, disciplined campaign. The other never got control of competing factions. One was able to communicate the message in an inspiring way; the other couldn't.

Yes, Hillary Clinton is smart and was a good lawyer. But she's a Senator and a national figure because of the Clinton name. Obama became a Senator and a national figure in spite of the Obama name. Further she was put in the forefront of health care reform by her husband and botched it badly. She has failed in the campaign, and when she was given responsibility for health care.

Personally I think if the first woman President won the job because she rode on the coat tails of her husband, it would be a terrible thing for women's rights. President Boxer would be great. President Clinton (II) wouldn't.

I have to agree with you on the Hillary aspect Halfster… no matter where she is today, she got there riding on her husbands coattails… Her personality is far to abrasive to have ever made a splash on the national scene without being the wife of the person who garnered her initial national attention
You couldn’t have picked a lesser qualified person to spearhead health care legislation. She wasn’t an Insurance Executive, a Hospital Administrator, a Doctor, a Legislator, not even a Malpractice Litigator. She was a real estate / corporate lawyer, and only had that job because her husband was Governor of the State…
She was asked to run for the Senate in NY not because of her abilities, but because the Blue team felt her notoriety was their only chance to keep the seat democratic. She wasn’t more qualified or even more politically savvy than Lazio, or Giuliani who dropped out because of cancer. Had she and Bill returned to Arkansas, we would have never heard of her again….

I’ve read her bio and agree she made a splash on the legal scene, twice being named in the top 100 lawyers nationally, but she had the proverbial snowballs chance in hell of becoming a partner in the oldest law firm west of the Mississippi if she rested on the Rodham name or her own personal accomplishments… In fact, if you recall, during the Clinton campaign in ‘92, she was known as Hillary Clinton, when she became first lady, she issued a press release identifying herself as Hillary Rodham Clinton. When she threw her hat in the ring for the seat in 2000, again she was Hillary Clinton, shortly after the election, but before taking office, she became a Rodham again. The same happened during the primary; she asked to be indentified as Clinton, not Rodham Clinton … Seems pretty clear to me that even she knows her husbands name is what carries the weight, not her personal resume.

From my perspective, her attitude seems to exude more of a sense that she has a right of ascension to whatever office she chooses, rather than recognizing the stark reality of being marginally elected by popular vote in her initial election in one of the most notoriously blue states in the union, and while handily winning her bid for re-election, her opponent was the former Mayor of Yonkers who, after leaving office, had a bit of a sex scandal involving a staff member... (He cheated had on his wife, she is a wife that had been cheated on, can you say sympathy vote….) Let's also not forget that using Bill's name enabled her to outdo her opponents in fund raising and campaign spending by a 10-1 margin....

I noticed some numbers being thrown around and wonder if they are estimates or actual numbers. For every special interest dollar thrown at supporting an issue there is generally a similar special interest dollar thrown at opposing it, so saying $700 million was spent in opposition to Hillary Care without identifying how much was spent in support of it is only half the story, and that's the problem with the media today, they cherry pick facts to create a story that sells their agenda. She and others like her can rant and rave about how special interest money killed her health care reform, but you never hear her rant about the special interest money she’s taken over her political career, last year alone it was almost a million dollars...
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 321
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/26/2008 7:44:41 AM

IF Clinton had been an insurance exec, hospital admin, doctor, legislator...she would have been the wrong choice to "spearhead health care legislation", it took someone not directly affected by medical care to see the different roles each played, I mean really, you think an insurance executive would have been unbiased?
Unbiased? I don't believe I mentioned the word unbiased, all legislation is biased towards some entity. My point, and I thought it very clear, she had zero qualifications to undertake such a daunting task.


your entire post is cherry picking to create a story
it's great that POF allows us to voice our "opinions" but let's not forget that making claims such as



Had she and Bill returned to Arkansas, we would have never heard of her again….


serves your post, but all your anti-Clinton assumptions are really pure biased speculation which is based on your own "cherry pickin" of opinions which have little ground in reality
Wow, such insight, completely inaccurate, unfounded, and irrelevant but great reading! I'm basing my opinion on what I know of her and her husband.... had the Senate seat from NY not been a viable option for her, she would (in my opinion) have disappeared into the annals of history. Since it's contrary to your *cough* unbiased opinion, what does your crystal ball say would have been her future?
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 322
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/26/2008 8:08:19 AM
WOW! A liberal and a conservative who have a difference of opinion.... gotta be a first!
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 323
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/26/2008 1:01:43 PM
Exactly!

Compassionate, caring, great lovers. . .
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 324
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/26/2008 1:28:58 PM
Um . . . me either, but what exactly does this have to do with Hillary Clinton? Unless Ex1 has the hots for her.
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 325
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/26/2008 1:32:19 PM
If she were my age and single, you bet. . . I like beautiful, intelligent headstrong women. . .
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 327
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/26/2008 3:27:57 PM
Uh oh Ex1, you're frightening me!
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 328
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/26/2008 3:42:08 PM

There sure are a lot of Republican politcal ads praising Hillary. I did not realize how much love and respect the Republicans have for Hillary. I guess we shouldn't be surprised when McCain announces that Hillary is his VP running mate.

HIllary's catered to republicans, which is probably why she didn't get the nomination, or hte nod for Veep. She's a wolf in sheeps clothing, and I'm glad to see her put back in her place. And those 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling are just where they need to be. Too many special interest bozos already taking up the stage.
I appluaded Hillary for runnign for hte top slot, but she lost her on her own doing, and it's ironic to read..........


how Hillary ran her campaign. She never quit...tenacity. She really didn't sling all that much mud.

Funny. Nothing could be further from the truth. She used every lowdown angle, every mudball she could find, much unlike Obama, and that's precisely why she lost favor. Had she taken hhe high road, she might be enjoying this time as nominee of the democratic party. But hte unique parallel is that the staunch Hillraisers act just like her when it comes to getting their wants met. They go below the belt, they stop at nothing to get what they want, and it's ironic how much republican blood I see in them. They might as well be (or always have been) republicans.

My , what drama.
 cncgandolf
Joined: 7/29/2007
Msg: 329
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/26/2008 4:47:40 PM
"She used every lowdown angle, every mudball she could find"

This was my biggest concern with her. when you mudsling in a primary you are arming the other post primary candidates with your comments in your commercials to damage your parties opportunity to work with Congress and the Judiciary. Witness the fact that McCain is using her words to damage the democratic parties chances. Now she is stuck ineffectually saying "I do not approve this message." Too late, she already did. They are just playing it post primary.

Sigh.
 faith2565
Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 331
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/26/2008 8:15:30 PM
Hillary did a great job. It was sincere and from her heart. Now, let us see how the media will stop this democratic win now?
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 332
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/26/2008 8:20:19 PM
Great speech. Hillary did what she had to, but if you notice she didn't say anything at all good about Obama. She basically said that everyone should vote for Obama because it's better than voting for a Republican. She never said that Obama was ready to lead.

In addition she said very little that was derrogatory about McCain.

Most of what you saw were lots of Hillary flags, and a few people crying, which I assume were disappointed Hillary supporters.

The speech was much more about her than it was about Barack Obama, and I think it did little to convince anyone who supports her to support Obama.

All it did for me was make me feel very sad that a person with no leadership skills and no experience will be accepting the Democratic nomination on Thursday.

From what I've heard Bill Clinton saying privately this week, Obama will get much less in the way of endorsement from him.

BTW, they pulled Mark Warner out of prime time because he refused to bad mouth McCain in his speech.
 faith2565
Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 333
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/26/2008 8:32:09 PM
Let this go! Hillary did a great job. We do not know what happen to Mark. It is time for this thread to be closed. We need to move on!
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 334
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/26/2008 8:40:08 PM
Yes we DO know what happened to Warner. From the Washington Post:


Warner has always presented himself as a bipartisan or post-partisan figure, and while much of that is mere rhetoric, it nonetheless resonates with those who view him as a reasonable person and no-nonsense businessman. Warner made it clear that he has no intent of acting as a Democratic attack dog.

He says he told Obama's people from the start that "if they want a slash and burn, contrasting speaker, that's not me." Warner's obviously not going to run away from Obama, but neither is he likely to traverse the state bashing McCain--at least not too hard, given that his whole shtick is that he draws (and needs) independent and Republican votes.


http://voices.washingtonpost.com/rawfisher/2008/08/_virginia_really_doesnt_matter.html

I agree with you that Hillary did a great job. It's just not the kind of great job that's going to help Obama.

And this thread doesn't need to be closed as long as "the Hillraisers just won't fold". That will be an ongoing topic through the election.
 faith2565
Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 336
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/26/2008 8:45:05 PM
The media puts such spins on everything. And yes, it is time to close this forum. We need to heal and come together. The time of trashing Obama and helping feed the media's fire needs to stop. Yes, be hurt. I would be hurt also if it were the other way around and spoke openly about that in the past, but when Hillary is trying to bring this to an end then it needs to end. Better yet, start a forum Hillary supporters for McCain. Then you do not have to bash Obama, but can just support each other.
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 337
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/27/2008 7:51:15 AM
As far as I'm aware there has been only ONE Hillraiser in this thread, and that would be me. Hillraisers were contribution bundlers who raised $100K and more for Hillary.

Given there were only a few hundred, it's unlikely that there are others anywhere in the threads.

And your point is?
 faith2565
Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 338
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/27/2008 8:37:05 PM
The Clintons have both put if full support of Obama. Please start a Hillary supporters for McCain forum.
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 339
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/27/2008 8:46:40 PM
This thread will do just fine. A Hillary supporters for McCain thread is REDUNDANT.

The Clintons have no choice but to support Obama, they're Democrats. But this thread ISN'T about the Clintons. It's about Hillary Clinton supporters who will not vote for Obama. Some will abstain, some will vote for McCain.
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 340
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All Hillary supporters shift to Obama
Posted: 8/27/2008 9:02:10 PM
Film at eleven. . .
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 341
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/27/2008 9:09:52 PM
This reminds me of the Reagan democrats. No matter what, there are still going to be 20% or so of Hillary supporters that will still vote for McCain after today. those hillary supporters still feel that they got robbed by the DNC and the democratic leaders of Flrorida and Mich by having Mich and Florida split the count, in which those supporters didn't want, but instead have all the delegates from Mich and Florida go to her. So, it looks like from here on out there is nothing Obama nore the DNC can do to get them back. Good news for McCain though.
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 342
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Again
Posted: 8/28/2008 3:32:29 AM
True Hillary supporters well ALL vote for Obama, the only ones who are going to vote for McCain are the ones who are lyining about their support for her. . . If you believe in the same things Hillary believes in, you can't vote for another neocon. . . McCain has always tried to look different, but the Keating five incedent was in the 1980s, he has always been a tired and true neocon, he just hid it well because Arizona likes mavericks.

But, even Arizona isn't considered a stronghold for McCain. . . McCain has an 8 point lead right now, and begining next weekend, I will be working to get as many people, regarless of party affiliation (Unlike republican operatives), registered to vote. I am going to make sure AZ becomes a blue state like it should be!
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 343
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Again
Posted: 8/28/2008 4:37:09 AM
I think the whole Obama "Clinch their guns and religion" statement kind of pissed off a lot of conservative democrats to begin with, and then not adding the FL and Mich delegates to Hillary was just adding more insult to injury to some of those diehard Hillary supporters, even though it wasn't his fault. This now pretty much gives you that 30%+ conservative democratic total figure that won’t be voting for Obama.

McCain was never a true republican, he is like Obama in the same sense of not being a true democrat. You have a liberal/republican vs. a liberal/democrat.
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 344
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Again
Posted: 8/28/2008 4:52:07 AM
McCain a true republican? Come on yeah he shares some of the same views, but there are a lot of views that he doesn't share like the illegal immigration issue, that's just one example. I mean I can name at least 10 more easy that McCain has fought republicans on. Just look at his senate record history vs. the other traditionalist republicans that he has fought against.

Oh Come on Obama is a liberal democrat again just look at his record history and compare them with traditional democrats.

But why are you defending it anyhow aren't you liberal? You’re acting like I’m saying Obama is really independent.
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 345
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Again
Posted: 8/28/2008 4:53:27 AM
Ignorance is not only bliss, but it is a great tool to keep republicans in power.

Nuance escapes them!
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 346
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Again
Posted: 8/28/2008 5:22:02 AM
That's because he was trying to make his run for the 08 election. He knew that if he changed his votes on things last year more republicans would start pulling for him during this election, because he knew if he didn't the same result would happen to him in the 2000 primaries. I don’t trust McCain’s real stance as far as I can throw him. I don’t believe this change BS in some of his policies that he has disagreed with for years but all of a sudden is now changing them just so he can get more votes. Just like the Iilegal immergration thing here was his quote " I listened to the people" You should have been doing that years ago and not just because you are all of a sudden running. This is why i don't trust a lot of his so called changes.

And that's what pisses me off; we have a lot of party leaders on both sides that haven't done crap. The only way things get changes if enough people demand it and threaten some of these politicians to get off their ass and do something or you’re out of a job come next election.
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