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 faith2565
Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 137
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The Hillraisers just won't foldPage 5 of 26    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26)
Clinton's people are acting like babies. What will they do if she is chosen as VP. McCain is having more problems with his age than Obama his race (not saying agism is correct, but it is as real as racism). All ism's are wrong in my eyes.

==============================================
McCain’s Age Seen as More of a Problem Than Obama’s Race
Majority, however, see neither as an obstacle to effective governing

USADemocratsElection 2008RepublicansAmericasNorthern America
by Frank Newport
PRINCETON, NJ -- Twenty-three percent of Americans say John McCain's age would make him a less effective president were he to win in November, while only 8% say Barack Obama's race would make him less effective.

========================================

I wish he would pick her as his VP then I would love to see if all of these crossover voters will still vote for McCain.

Obama 08
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 138
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/2/2008 6:21:27 AM
Oh, here we go again, more bashing of Hillary supporters, calling them babies because they don't want to vote for your guy.

Apparently you haven't been looking at the polls lately if you think McCain has been having more problems with his age than Obama with his race. Gallup is a tie, and McCain's numbers have been heading straight upwards:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html

As I mentioned in another thread, the National Review has it right. Obama needs to stop mentioning race all the time, talking about how cool he is having Ludacris on his iPod (I'd never even HEARD of Ludacris before Obama, and I bet a lot of other white people hadn't either).

Obama already has the left wing and the black vote sewn up. If he can't appeal to anyone else, he's going to lose the election.

If he can't throw off his serious "empty suit" "rock star" image, and start looking like a serious leader with a serious platform to cope with some of the issues plaguing this nation right now, he's going to lose the election.

He's all focused on glitz, glamour and the supporters with whom he feels most comfortable.

He forgets that the majority of the country is "middle of the road", and therefore doesn't find McCain's politics all that far off from where they stand. They also feel more comfortable with McCain as a leader, because he actually HAS led.

For Obama to overcome that, he's going to have to start acting like an adult who could actually be President, and not some rock star campaigning in Germany -- unless he wants to be Chancellor of Germany.

McCain 08!
 faith2565
Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 139
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History
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/2/2008 6:34:48 AM
I believe this forum is entitled "The Hillraisers, just won't fold" and not "We have been for McCain since the beginning". For those that have been firm supporters of McCain 'rock on', but for those that are acting like 'spoiled brats' or 'sore loser' because their candidate did not win 'move on'. What will the die hard Clinton people do if she is selected as the VP?

I have nothing against McCain. There is a big difference in a person supporting McCain because they are still upset with Obama's win or Clinton's not winning.

When kids took the ball back because they lost; how did you handle the situation? Did you cave into them? Did you move on? Maybe, you were the kid that took his or her ball back. Where do we go from here?

Obama 08
 faith2565
Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 140
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/2/2008 7:04:54 AM
Dance, I live in Red Texas and was a delegate for Obama in a very Red District /ARea (look it up 77450).

Obama won the caucus here in Katy, Texas, so change is coming. Katy is very red (85% white, less than 10% black, less than 10% low income, majority married, double income which averages around 100,000.00 per year with the average home exceeding 200,000.00 which in American market would be equal to an 1/2 million dollar home in Calif., with an African American superintendent over Katy ISD which is one of the highest ranking school districts in the state, majority of it residents have college degree's and have attended Texas A&M or the University of Texas). It is projected a new Disney theme park will be built here within the next 10 years.

Now, will he win the state in the general election (I do not think so). This is a very republican area and state (historically).

Does that make me sad (NO). It did make me feel good that Obama won the caucus in the state. The reason Hillary won the primary in this state was because of the Hispanic/women vote.

Many whites supported Obama in Tejas. Things are changing.

Historically, hispanics and women vote democrat so I feel comfortable. But, realistically I do not think Obama will win Texas (Tejas). This is a very red state historically.

In the end Obama won Texas in the primaries, because of the caucus he had more delegates.

I am proud!

Change is a comin', One step at a time! Rome was not built over night.
African Americans just had all of their rights as Americans only 40 years ago. Look at the landscape now. The dream is being realized.

Ain't no stopping us now, were on the move!

Obama 08
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 141
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/2/2008 8:52:11 AM

I believe this forum is entitled "The Hillraisers, just won't fold" and not "We have been for McCain since the beginning". For those that have been firm supporters of McCain 'rock on', but for those that are acting like 'spoiled brats' or 'sore loser' because their candidate did not win 'move on'. What will the die hard Clinton people do if she is selected as the VP?


Yes it is, and I was a Hillary supporter, big time. I was not a McCain supporter from the beginning, even though I have known him for many years. Changing from a Hillary supporter to a McCain supporter does not mean I'm a "spoiled brat" or a "sore loser". It means given the choices, I am more comfortable with McCain.

When people evaluate candidates, they always have to pick from a list of imperfect people. I can't remember once when a candidate ran where he or she completely agreed with my POV. I worry about people who have such a shallow view of the world that they would just agree with any political platform hook, line and sinker. That doesn't show much critical thinking IMO.

I can't tell you what other people will do if Cinton gets the VP nod, but I can tell you what I will do. I will still vote for McCain. Being VP does not mean leading the country, it means being VP. It's not looking like Obama will pick Hillary for VP, and I'm hoping he doesn't. IMO, it's the only way he could possibly win is with Bill and Hillary's cache. I don't want to see them used that way -- in fact, I'm disappointed that Hillary said she would even accept the VP slot.


I have nothing against McCain. There is a big difference in a person supporting McCain because they are still upset with Obama's win or Clinton's not winning.


Yes, they're upset and for many reasons. First and foremost is fear regarding Obama's ability to fill the office. People who are supporting him, for the most part, are just hoping he fills out that "change" mantra with some actual policy, and that he will rise to the occasion in office. That's a dangerous way of thinking, IMO.

The people who don't support Obama feel that in these hard times we should not be putting an unknown quantity into office. I see no difference in putting Obama into office compared to a member of the DC city council or the local sheriff.


When kids took the ball back because they lost; how did you handle the situation? Did you cave into them? Did you move on? Maybe, you were the kid that took his or her ball back. Where do we go from here?


A little weird asking people what they did when they were 3, but if you must know, I was a tomboy and rarely lost the ball. But if I fell out of a tree, or someone else caught it on rare occasion, I just brushed myself off and kept on going.

Don't know what that has to do with politics though.


Here is Texas ~ more people here are racist then you would think possible ~ when you get down to the fine hairs. ~ They are not volient or militant about it ~ it's more of a suttle underlying fact. ~


I've spent a lot of time in Texas, and if you're spending time outside of Austin, you're probably right. I've got friends and family all over the state, and a relative that runs a government agency in Austin. He's known the Bush family for years, and thinks our President is a moron.

Austin is liberal. In the last few Presidential elections, it's gone Democrat, even though most of the rest of the state went Republican (Dallas is liberal too).

The rest of Texas is considerably more conservative. The "subtle" racism you're talking about is more the "good ole boys" not seeing blacks (or Hispanics, for that matter) as leaders, but they'll still drink and be friends with you. I see that changing in the not too distant future.

But the majority of people who are fearful of Obama becoming President aren't basing their selection on race. I know I'm not.


If the first chair is handed to the GOP ~ America has reach her Zenith in the 21 century and never will shine the light of freedom "by example" near as brighty again. We will be enslaved by special interest forever more. ~ It will be all about~ Coroperate America and Coroperate values of Global scale.


If that's true, then we're screwed, because if Obama becomes President he will be the next Jimmy Carter, and the country will be going to hell in a handbasket.

With that, they're calling my flight.

McCain 08!
 faith2565
Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 142
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History
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/2/2008 11:31:03 AM
Vote for McCain and move on. You have a right to vote for whom you feel comfortable. This is America a free country.

I will vote for Obama under the same rights.

Have a Blessed Day!

===========================

McCain sounding more like Clinton--

==========================


McCain defends charge that Obama playing race card

NEW: McCain says he agrees that Obama is playing race card
McCain campaign says Obama played race card "from the bottom of the deck"
Obama spokesman immediately denies the assertion

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Sen. John McCain defended his campaign Thursday for saying that Sen. Barack Obama is playing the race card....................................................................


.

Obama 08'
 faith2565
Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 144
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/2/2008 2:08:37 PM
Obama took the high road. He says McCain is not racist just cynical.

Obama 08'
 Ahoytheredave
Joined: 8/29/2006
Msg: 145
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History
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/2/2008 9:33:12 PM
Obama repeatedly pledged to use only federal funding for his campaign and reversed himself. He cannot be trusted. He changed his position to allow offshore drilling at the same time his party leaders blocked a bipartisan effort to pass legislation doing just that. The CSPAN were ordered turned off by the same party leaders to prevent the public seeing the protest against their shenanigans. Some in the mainstream press actually blamed Republicans for blocking the legislation. He said the troop surge would not work in Iraq but it clearly did and he favors a similar troop surge in Afghanistan and a possible invasion of Pakistan. The "rich" that Obama wants to tax are actually small business owners that employ 70% of the population. Multinationals can simply shift whatever production and profit off shore to avoid punishing taxes.

It was race that got him his senate seat. He was a civil rights lawyer who made millions by suing people he claimed were practicing racism. His law practice and his voting record, what little there is of it, indicate he favors reciprocity for slavery, basically taking away money from former slave owners and giving it to descendants of slaves. Just like his pledge about federal campaign funding, he has stated he does not favor such a wealth transfer. Can he be trusted? Is it only racism when someone discriminates against another because of race or does it also include those who discriminate for someone because of their race? Maybe some people define racism based on the race involved.
 Strongdad
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 146
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/2/2008 9:48:17 PM
It is easy for dems to vote for McCain. He isn't that much more republican than Arnie Schwarzenegger. Is it that hard to remember that a lot of republicans didn't like McCain because they felt he was too much of a democrat? While the mainstream media helped McCain get the nom (the NY Times actually endorsed him), as part of what they THOUGHT was going to be a knock out punch for the gop, they may not have foreseen this outcome. I am sure they thought Obama would just tapdance his way to DC. But, as Gallup has pointed out today (44/44), it hasn't turned out that way.

SD
 faith2565
Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 147
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/2/2008 10:12:00 PM
The numbers are changing. Obama is in the lead again 47/44 (CNN reported) and also with the electoral college. He is doing well for an unknown a few months ago. Americans really desire change.

Obama 08
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 149
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/3/2008 3:39:56 PM

Truth of the matter is if you are a real Hillary supporter you may sit this one out if you were really that bitter that Barack won, but you wouldnt shoot yourself in the proverbial foot by supporting McCain who is the opposite of Hillary politically and issue wise over Barack Obama who closely mirrors the policies of Hillary.


I'm personally not bitter at all. I am disappointed that the Democrats picked a guy who's not capable of running the country, but I'm a big girl. I'll get over it.

McCain is not the opposite of Hillary, George Bush is the opposite of Hillary. Hillary is to the right of Obama, as you can ascertain by looking at the numbers of any organization that does such rankings. Last year, Obama was the most liberal Senator as scored by the National Journal. Hillary was number 16, which was a big swing to the left for her as well.

Hillary's lifetime liberal ranking is 79 percent; Obama's is 88 percent.

http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/

In 2007 McCain's conservative rating on social issues was 59 percent, in other words, very moderate. National Journal was not able to compile a rating on economic issues because he missed too many votes in 2007 (probably trying to avoid getting labeled as a Bush supporter, lol).

Over the years, McCain has become much more moderate, as can be seen here:

http://www.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/pdf/06republicans.pdf


vMost likely if your gonna vote McCain now, it was always your plan to do so!


Not so. I absolutely would have voted for Hillary if she'd run. I was a Hillraiser. In other words, I raised more than $100K for her campaign. You think I would have done that if I'd originally planned to vote for McCain?


AND ~ fly on the wall !!! ~~~ I'm looking for my can of "Raid" ~~


And Dance, your comments are in complete violation of the POF TOS. Only warning. Don't do it again. Next time my comments will be directed to the violations forum.


Please offer us ~ how you preceive how exactly Obama ~ is "inkind" to Jimmy Carter?


Oh Lord, are you serious? Obama has even less experience than Jimmy Carter (who had been a one term Governor), and is a neophyte to the entire political scene.


Do you think ~ Obama is that out of touch with Capital Hill? I admit, he's no Lyndon Bains Johnson, no John Hightower or the late and great Sentor Derkson ~ but he's bright and quick and got his own parking spot already.


When I was on the Hill I also had my own parking spot, and probably a better one than he has. I also knew my way around a whole lot better. You don't develop that know how in a year. The man's never introduced a bill by himself, and the two he cosponsered were of pretty much no consequence.

He's got NO Senatorial cred. The average senior staffer probably gets more respect than he does.


Now there a mind trust ~ that'd sell their own Grandmother for future options on Arizonia Beach Front Property.


As compared to throwing your own white Grandma under the bus to make a point? Sheesh.


Or is McCain just "all knowing" this late in life? don't need nobodys imput


It's precisely the opposite. McCain values EVERYONE's input. The older you get, the more you know, the more you realize what you don't know. That's called wisdom.


Obama took the high road. He says McCain is not racist just cynical.


Would be pretty hard to call McCain a racist, having a black daughter and all. Obama wouldn't be able to get away with it. If he could, I bet he'd try. Don't forget he had no trouble calling his own white Grandmother a racist.


The numbers are changing. Obama is in the lead again 47/44 (CNN reported) and also with the electoral college.


Anyone who knows the difference between their ass and a garbage truck could tell you that a 3 point margin is not statistically significant. And we don't have a friggin clue as to the Electoral College numbers. We're nowhere near being able to accurately predict.


I personally see him as not black , and not white ~ his self admission ~ is a reality that "we" have thrust on him ~ with simple minds. "WE" required him to choice. ~


No we don't require Obama to be anything. Tiger Woods never allowed himself to be classified as black (and to my knowledge never dated any woman who wasn't a blonde Swedish model). He always considered himself multiracial. How other people see you and how you see yourself are two completely different things.

When a person walks down the street the only thing you have to evaluate race by is what they look like (given that you even give a crap in the first place).

Adrian Fenty, Halle Berry both look more black than white, so my guess is that most people perceive them to be black. Mariah Carey looks more white than black, so people who don't know may think she's white. Carly Simon, who's mother was biracial, is one-quarter black -- and I bet NO ONE ever looks at her as black, or even thinks she might be mixed. So what you see is just what you see, and it doesn't carry a whole lot of importance.

You can still classify yourself according to your own personal identity.


We will not allow him to be just ~ a person. ~~ you know ~ like yourself.


Bullcrap. I've got some black step-brothers and sisters, and a mixed race half-sister. They consider themselves to be what they are -- gifted professionals, loving spouses and great parents. Race is just way down the line.

No one at our family get togethers looks at race, we just get together and shoot the breeze like anyone else. Race is the last thing anyone thinks about.


With all respects ~ he did misspeak ~ he used the term ~" McCain" and not "McCain supporters" ~ McCain has not spoken one word about race ~~ he don't have too ~ nor would I think he'd ever stoop that low ~ again ~ he has no need to


I guarantee you that McCain is not tacitly supporting anyone in the party making racial comments. The guy has a mixed race family just like I do. People who live like that don't see race the same way.


If you vote for McCain ~ in "no way" could you understand what it is ~ that the DNC stands for. ~ it's completely impossible ~ in "no way" can you imply or suggest that you are an educated voter.


Oh yes I can. Not only that, but I am way more educated on the issues than most voters. Slinging arrows at people who don't agree with you is a good way to ensure that no one ever takes you seriously.

It seems to be what many Obama supporters do in these threads: question your intelligence, your integrity, your mental balance -- just because you don't agree.

IMO, if that's the way you have to try and make your point, you don't have one.

McCain 08!
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 150
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/3/2008 4:43:34 PM
If he was 3 or 4 it really doesn't matter. He's still well to the left of Hillary Clinton. In his first two years he was 16th and 10th respectively, so he's been definitely moving to the left.

Obama's lifetime rating is 9 points ahead of Hillary's, and when Obama's been in the Senate for as long as Hillary, my guess is it's going to be way up in the 90s.

 Strongdad
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 151
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/3/2008 4:45:09 PM
Obama didn't just miss "some" votes. He was criticized by his own party and spanked by Harry Reid for missing more votes than anyone else running, at the time.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/02/obama.missed.votes/index.html?iref=newssearch

I am going to leave here and go call our presidentials and let them know that they better look at their schedules, because these are not votes you can miss," Reid said on the Senate floor Friday.

Some say Obama purposely avoided certain votes (Iran National Guard Senate Vote) for political expediency. Slick.

SD
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 152
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The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/3/2008 9:11:48 PM
Trusting McCain? Noooooo. I could never trust him to make serious decisions. He seems likely to make snap decisions that could have disastrous consequences for us all. His hair trigger temper, emotional instability and immaturity make me feel very uncomfortable about him being our next President.

Obama, on the other hand, is trustworthy and the kind of guy you would want in the White House making the big decisions. He is steady and has nerves of steel that will serve him well during the most challenging moments of his presidency.

GO OBAMA!!
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 153
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/4/2008 4:54:08 AM
No one is criticizing the use of teleprompters. The point of the comment was that Obama is a hemming and hawing fool without them. I've never heard so much stuttering and "uhs" in my life.

McCain may not be a gifted orator, but he doesn't sound like Porky Pig when you get him away from a teleprompter.

I'm guessing this is why Obama refuses to confont McCain "Town Hall" style where he would have to show his deficiencies in "off the cuff" commentary.
 Strongdad
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 154
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/4/2008 11:13:59 AM
So, McCain did "nothing" to offer resistance to the current administration? Laughable, considering Democrats and liberals had been lauding McCain as "The Maverick" of the GOP. If McCain, as Democrats are NOW saying, never offered resistance to Bush, or is just "more of the same", then why did they note that McCain would have such a hard time garnering support from party loyalists? You can't have it both ways. Wait. Strike that. Obama has shown they can.

Take a gander at what NPR (who liberals love to cite) says about McCain's bumpy history with Bush.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5339844

There are more. Hit Google.

SD
 MacKevinized
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 155
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History
The Republican Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/4/2008 11:16:41 AM
What we have here is a feeble attempt by republicans to keep Hillary in the equation.

I got news folks, Hillary hasn't been news for months now.

Seeing republican zealots praise her is laughable. Wait a minute.

This is another non-issue.

May I request respectable democratic posters simply stop visiting this thread and let the republican pundants bore each other with trivial subjects.
 Strongdad
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 156
The Republican Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/4/2008 11:20:02 AM
Respectable Democrats?

Like it or not, some Hillary supporters seem to intend to vote for McCain. I am betting they aren't the only democrats who will be. Personally, I have to plug my nose to give him my vote. But, the alternative is far too damaging, in my view.

SD
 Strongdad
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 158
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/4/2008 12:39:58 PM
Count me amongst the many former Democrats, who became tired of the party being hijacked. I left in the mid 90s. In the end, the best we can do is vote our conscience. For those of us who have them.

SD
 faith2565
Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 159
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History
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/4/2008 5:46:12 PM
Bill is saying that, probably because it caused his wife the campaign.

Despite what many people on this forum believe, the black community was supporting Hillary in the beginning.

Obama was liked and respected, but majority of the black community supported Hillary. The feeling was Obama is a good guy, but he needs more experience, plus the Clintons overall did good things for working/middle class Americans.

When Clinton began to open his mouth he started shutting things down for Hillary.

He realizes that now, plus the party is so divided.

If Hillary had won the Obama people would not have been as angry and would have voted for her to keep the republicans out.

He is realizing that his behavior started a chain reaction that has not not only hurt his wife (slim chances she will be the VP), but will also hurt America.

Obama 08

 Strongdad
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 160
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/4/2008 5:53:06 PM
So, according to the last post, who seems to speak for the entire "black community", "Obama is a good guy, but needs more experience." Exactly!!!! I couldn't have put it better myself! Obama doesn't have enough experience! Gee, now where have I heard that before???

By the way, many Obama supporters were whoofin about voting for McCain, if he didn't get the nod.

Either way, the Dem party beat the heck out of itself this year. It was fun to watch, one camp shouted "racist" on the other, while the other shouted "sexist" back. Good to see Dems finally admit that not all racists and sexists are republicans.

SD
 Strongdad
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 161
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/4/2008 5:56:08 PM
Bill Clinton, 1993....."Well, golly! I'm the first black president y'all!"

Bill Clinton, 2008...."Well, golly! Those black people there just played the race card on me y'all!"

Hilarious. Do I think they can mend the fences? Not likely. For many Hillary supporters, too much has been said. A good chunk of them will vote McCain.

SD
 Strongdad
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 163
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 8/4/2008 6:49:25 PM
Some of these posts just crack me up. Is there ever a time when some of the people who post here, post anything other than empty rhetoric? I can understand the occasional quip, but, honestly, how about some substance? I may fall asleep here! I see posts by people who, while I may disagree with, post intelligent cohesive arguments for their positions. I can respect that. In fact, I like that a lot.

But then......

"McCain has no greatness left." LOL. Yeah, he just plum ran out of it.

What is that line, by Carlos Mencia, again?

SD
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